Author Topic: 70 S2 0044Q  (Read 29396 times)

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Offline Sandyman

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Re: 70 S2 0044Q
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday,May 08, 2019, 04:28:59 AM »
Bodzer, Thanks for the input. When did you get your Spyder Chassis? Did you assemble it yourself? Any input, re putting it together?

Offline Bodzer

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Re: 70 S2 0044Q
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday,May 08, 2019, 09:16:20 AM »
Hi Sandyman,

I went for an original style chassis from Richard at Banks so cannot offer you any advice.  On reflection a Spyder chassis would have been a better choice for my needs.  Nothing against the original chassis. The rear independent suspension would have been much more suited to my project (in whispered tones: an electric conversion). I have used Spyder products before on my +2 and found them to be well made and sturdy. However, they need to be fettled to fit.  Not a drama but don’t expect holes and mountings to line up exactly. The same goes for anything Lotus.


Offline Sandyman

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Re: 70 S2 0044Q
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday,May 08, 2019, 11:40:02 AM »
Thanks for the quick reply. Should I be prepared to move and re fiberglass the mounting bobins?

Offline gideon

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Re: 70 S2 0044Q
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday,May 08, 2019, 12:43:26 PM »
I believe the answer to that is no, don't move the mounting bobbins.  I have two original S2 chassis and, from memory, the mounting holes at the outer ends of the front T piece don't match up between chassis.  So those holes were probably drilled after the body was positioned on the chassis.  My best guess is that you line up the two bobbins at the base of the dashboard with the corresponding threaded holes in the chassis.  Then deal with the four corners.  I have a metal L shaped piece at each of the two rear mounting points that could be replaced or repositioned as necessary.  Once happy with the position then mark and drill holes in the chassis for the front mounting points.  I'd bet the three holes beneath each seat were drilled after the rest was lined up.

But don't take my word for it.  I'm sure Spydercars can tell you exactly how to go about fitting your body shell to their chassis.

Offline Bodzer

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Re: 70 S2 0044Q
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday,May 08, 2019, 01:09:28 PM »
Agreed. No need to move bobbins. I have a spyder chassis for my Elan. They come undrilled and untapped. The same goes for a normal chassis.

Offline BDA

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Re: 70 S2 0044Q
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday,May 08, 2019, 01:33:02 PM »
Richard makes a twin link rear suspension that is pretty nice. I understand he also has an A-arm rear suspension. I have the twin link and it's a nice kit. I know nothing about the A-arm kits except they are listed in his catalog. I really don't know enough about Richard's or Spyder's frames to compare them, but the rear suspension options for both are good.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: 70 S2 0044Q
« Reply #36 on: Wednesday,May 08, 2019, 01:55:03 PM »
Richard's rear a-arm kit is for his space-frame chassis.  They don't fit onto a standard chassis.  His twin-link kit is for the standard chassis.

Offline BDA

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Re: 70 S2 0044Q
« Reply #37 on: Wednesday,May 08, 2019, 02:03:01 PM »
There you go! I had forgotten that Richard had a space frame chassis!

Offline Sandyman

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Re: 70 S2 0044Q
« Reply #38 on: Wednesday,May 08, 2019, 02:57:17 PM »
BDA, I have ordered both front and rear Spyder suspensions. Fully adjustable, so lots I can play with. Thanks all for your feedback. Sean at Spyder is slow in responding to my questions.

Offline GavinT

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Re: 70 S2 0044Q
« Reply #39 on: Wednesday,May 08, 2019, 07:16:04 PM »
[...]  In the Renault set-up, the half-shaft CV joint encloses the output stub axle with only the roll pin holes letting an occasional smattering out.  Lotus changed that and fit just a small seal-run/spacer and then applied a load through it. [...]

Yep . . and I’ve wondered why Colin used that spacer instead of a longer UJ yoke on the output shafts.
Maybe longer yokes weren’t available at the time, but I doubt that.

I looked into this ages ago and found a likely suitable GM yoke.
The GM yoke would have required shortening. No big deal, but drilling that slightly offset roll pin hole would be tricky.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: 70 S2 0044Q
« Reply #40 on: Thursday,May 09, 2019, 06:24:32 AM »
In the Renault set-up, the half-shaft does not carry suspension loads.  The roll pin just holds the half-shaft in place.  There is no load on the roll pin.

In the Europa, the half-shaft takes the suspension loads and it needs to be carefully shimmed so the yoke does not bottom on the output stub axle which would then feed the loads inside the diff rather than to the large diff carrier bearings.  Nominally the roll pin still does not take any loads if it is shimmed absolutely perfectly.  In practice, it is not uncommon for there to be a slight load on the pin as it is not easy to get the shimming perfect.  This results in the pin eventually shearing but, as long as the shims stay in place and not too stressed, everything is still ok.

The Lotus design is quite clever with one minor and two major issues.  The minor is that the set-up will weep oil.  The major are that the weeping oil will lead owners to change seals unnecessarily and, most likely, incorrectly; and, that owners do not check the half-shaft shimming often enough.  It is to be checked at EVERY service.  So, every 3000 miles/5000 km.

This is a common theme to early Lotus car design.  Clever, well-thought-out, race designs not making a good transition to a road car application.  Race engineering bears little application to road car design.  Load bearing half-shafts have been successfully used in other applications (Corvette as one example) because they were design by engineers conversant with road car applications.  Not just trying to make some money on the side to fund the race team.

None of the above is a criticism.  You just need to be aware of what you are getting into when you buy an early Lotus.
« Last Edit: Thursday,May 09, 2019, 06:28:02 AM by jbcollier »

Offline GavinT

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Re: 70 S2 0044Q
« Reply #41 on: Thursday,May 09, 2019, 10:09:10 AM »
Thanks for the response, JB.
Yes, I’m aware of the difference between the Renault set up and the Europa.

On further thought, my longer splined yoke idea might be less advantageous because any need to re-shim at a later date would involve pulling the yoke off and thus, upsetting the O-ring.
That, and the fact that the shim pack would determine the position of the O-ring.

Offline Sandyman

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Re: 70 S2 0044Q
« Reply #42 on: Saturday,May 18, 2019, 04:00:25 PM »
Hi Friends, I have been able to get some things off "my to" do list. Driver side quarter glass installed. Good weather today. I was able to untarp and move the body into the barn and put the chassis out. The original chassis/suspension is going to be saved so the next owner has the option of restoring the car to stock.

Offline dakazman

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Re: 70 S2 0044Q
« Reply #43 on: Saturday,May 18, 2019, 04:33:40 PM »
Really nice work on the stand and window. Saving the frame is a good idea if you have a place in the rafters for it.
Dakazman

Offline BDA

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Re: 70 S2 0044Q
« Reply #44 on: Saturday,May 18, 2019, 05:16:24 PM »
Congratulations on your progress, Sandyman! The first step can be the most important!