Author Topic: Repairing front wheel wells  (Read 3654 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 4129R

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: May 2014
  • Location: Norfolk, United Kingdom, not far from Hethel the home of Lotus.
  • Posts: 2,562
Re: Repairing front wheel wells
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday,January 30, 2019, 12:04:18 PM »
The closing plate has a slight kink across it width ways (from memory as its been a while since i was underneath!!) to allow it to change from the level the body is at to the bottom edge of the chassis and the front to rear edges (sides) are folded 90 degrees to give a little more rigidity.

You could get away with putting a flat sheet in place as a temporary measure if you are using the car regularly...?!

I use about 4mm thick ally sheet. No folds necessary and lighter, but not in Chunky's budget.

Offline 1970EuropaGuy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: Oct 2018
  • Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
  • Posts: 302
    • Lotus Europa Restoration
Re: Repairing front wheel wells
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday,January 30, 2019, 12:17:21 PM »
I think the 3/8 refers to the fold on the sides.

Might fabricate one out of aluminum, 1/8 inch thick should be enough?

Offline BDA

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Jul 2012
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 9,596
Re: Repairing front wheel wells
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday,January 30, 2019, 12:25:31 PM »
I measured mine at about 1/16" thick. I got it with my Spyder frame (pre-space frame style) but I suspect it's pretty similar to the original. It has a chassis punched hole about two inches in diameter for draining water. Other than that hole and a lip on either side for stiffness, mine is flat. I think, like a a lot of things on Europas, you have a fair amount of latitude in replicating this part.

Offline gideon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Dec 2017
  • Location: Northern NJ
  • Posts: 527
Re: Repairing front wheel wells
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday,January 30, 2019, 12:30:20 PM »
Oh yes, 1970EuropaGuy, the 3/8" is the height of the folds at the sides.  It makes sense now.

Offline JR73

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: Apr 2018
  • Location: Merseyside, UK
  • Posts: 307
  • Banks Europa S2
Re: Repairing front wheel wells
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday,January 30, 2019, 01:16:35 PM »
I would include the folded edges if you are fabricating your own as the rigidity gained from them would make a fair difference - remember that the body end of the plate is fixing into fairly thin fibreglass (that is quite a few years old now!) and the bolts, even with repair washers to spread the load, are all that is transferring the loads into the plate...

Also, aluminium for the plate is ok providing the gauge is increased but remember that it doesn't like being in close proximity to steel and vice versa - anyone with a Land Rover will know all about what happens in a surprisingly short amount of time...!

Offline 4129R

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: May 2014
  • Location: Norfolk, United Kingdom, not far from Hethel the home of Lotus.
  • Posts: 2,562
Re: Repairing front wheel wells
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday,January 30, 2019, 01:32:35 PM »
Also, aluminium for the plate is ok providing the gauge is increased but remember that it doesn't like being in close proximity to steel and vice versa - anyone with a Land Rover will know all about what happens in a surprisingly short amount of time...!

What about steel bolts into cast aluminium? That's what holds the gearbox to the engine.

Offline gideon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Dec 2017
  • Location: Northern NJ
  • Posts: 527
Re: Repairing front wheel wells
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday,January 30, 2019, 01:44:16 PM »
What about steel bolts into cast aluminium? That's what holds the gearbox to the engine.

Zinc plated steel bolts.  It would be a bigger problem without the zinc, I think.

Offline dakazman

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Jun 2016
  • Location: Florida
  • Posts: 3,963
Re: Repairing front wheel wells
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday,January 30, 2019, 02:06:19 PM »
Footnote
    formed from 17 ga stainless steel (original is probably 18 ga mild steel)
all holes (7) are 0.275”
Dakazman

Offline 1970EuropaGuy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: Oct 2018
  • Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
  • Posts: 302
    • Lotus Europa Restoration
Re: Repairing front wheel wells
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday,January 30, 2019, 02:51:16 PM »
I hadn't thought about the aluminum steel reaction. Good point.

I'll source some stainless.

Offline jbcollier

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Nov 2013
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  • Posts: 5,849
Re: Repairing front wheel wells
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday,January 30, 2019, 03:43:29 PM »
3/8” is dimensions of the folded edge, not the material.

Offline rgh

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Joined: Oct 2018
  • Location: Australia
  • Posts: 2
Re: Repairing front wheel wells
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday,January 30, 2019, 10:20:25 PM »
The drawing that I linked to appears to show the thickness of the closing plate as 3/8 inch.  Can that be right?   My car is also missing the closing plate, so I can't check, but 3/8" seems far too heavy.  Not very Lotus-like.
This diagram of the TC closing plate indicates 17 or 18 gauge.   Big difference.
http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/files/tc_closing_plate/closing_plate.pdf
I'm pretty sure the 3/8" dimension on the first drawing is the height of the fold on each edge of the plate for stiffening.

Offline EuropaTC

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Jun 2012
  • Location: Lincolnshire, UK
  • Posts: 3,051
    • LotusLand
Re: Repairing front wheel wells
« Reply #26 on: Thursday,January 31, 2019, 12:31:12 AM »
I think the 3/8" is referring to the strengthening lip at either end of the plate, not the sheet thickness.

I made mine from 1.2mm 304 stainless, plenty strong enough, will never rust and most importantly it looks shiny.... ;)

Edit to add....

whoops, that's what you get for immediately clicking "reply" without checking for another page !

Offline dakazman

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Jun 2016
  • Location: Florida
  • Posts: 3,963
Re: Repairing front wheel wells
« Reply #27 on: Thursday,January 31, 2019, 03:57:19 AM »
Your correct europaTC.and others.
 The confusion is that there are 3 seperate drawings posted on this thread .
Closing_plate
closing plate europa S-2-1
Closing plate europa S 2
   
     Dimensions are all the same.  Only the Closing_plate has the footnotes on the material type and thicknesses.
Gauge size.

   As for bolts , always use antisieze lubricant on all bolts and nuts. I like silver goop on aluminum high temp  and other areas.
Dakazman

Offline BobW

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Mar 2018
  • Location: Victoria, BC Canada
  • Posts: 138
Re: Repairing front wheel wells
« Reply #28 on: Monday,February 04, 2019, 01:40:06 PM »
What size front tires are or were on the car? I'm thinking that 185/60 or wider tires will cause rubbing or actual cracking of the inner wheel well area which if severe enough will crack the out side of the fender. It's happened to two of my S2s. You can check for tire to fender contact by turning the the front wheel to full lock and have somebody press down on the corner of the body and check for contact. The PO of my S2 was aware of the issue and cut out the inner fender lip where the tire was rubbing. Unfortunately running Toyo R888 185/6013 tires there is still some rubbing and the drivers side front fender now has a small crack and a big chip.
I've cracked the lip of the front wheel arch, directly above the centre-line of the wheel and tire, a couple of times. My original wheel-well closing plates are present. In my case it takes just a sharp bump, like the bump between the road and my driveway, with the wheels turned, and the top of the tire can contact the lip. I try to take this kind of situation slowly. 

The original steel wheels on an S2 were 13x4-1/2 inches with an offset of 1-9/16 inch. The original tires were 155x13 and had a tread width of about 4 inches. I still have one, a Dunlop SP. There was no number for the profile but I believe it was 82 on tires of this period. A 155/82x13 tire has a height of 5.0 inches and a rolling diameter of 23.0 inches. I'm running 165/70x13 Michelins on the front on 5-1/2 inch rims with an offset of 1-5/8 inch. These tires have a tread width of about 5 inches, are 4-1/2 inches high, and have a rolling diameter of just over 22 inches. The wheels alone have the effect of pushing the outside of the tire 9/16 of an inch further out than the originals. Add half an inch for the greater tread width, and it seems to me that the outside of my tread is roughly an inch further out than the originals would have been, though the gap between the tread and the wheel arch should be a 1/2 inch greater than original. 

Have my front springs settled half an inch over the years? Quite likely. That, and the increased width of my wheel/tire combination are likely the villains when it comes to my tires nibbling the lip of the wheel arch.

These tires rub slightly on the inside of the wheel-wells at full lock, more noticeably in reverse than going slowly forwards, and more noticeably with a passenger than with me alone. I think the villain here is simply the wider tires.