Author Topic: Let’s play what on earth is this.  (Read 574 times)

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Offline Gmg31

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Let’s play what on earth is this.
« on: Sunday,May 17, 2020, 08:52:29 AM »
Today I sorted  and bagged all the parts that came with my project.  I have a Gordini Engine which appears to be a R 16 engine with a fancy head. And I have an Else Engine so I’m guessing there’s lots of cross over parts.  But there’s some stuff I don’t recognise so I’d welcome some advice please.

Anyone recognise this gearbox please.
Does anyone have the same gearbox and can share photos of how it mounts onto the rear chassis loop.
Also please share photos of your gear linkage. I’ve got a collection of tubes and rose joints but no clue how it’s supposed to look.
Some photos of some random parts that I don’t recognise from my first project. Any ideas would be very welcome please. 

Offline BDA

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Re: Let’s play what on earth is this.
« Reply #1 on: Sunday,May 17, 2020, 10:08:00 AM »
I can't help you much with any of those except the third picture looks like anti roll bars. Not sure how they'd mount.

There aren't enough pictures or the particular views of the tranny for me to make an accurate identification. A few pictures of the rear cover would help, but it LOOKS like an NG series tranny. The rear hoop looks like a badly cobbled up attempt at a rear mount. The mounts on the tranny look very much like the ones I got from Richard with mine.  I've attached some pictures of my NG3 setup. I got a cleaned up 336 hoop from Richard as well. The shift linkage is very similar to that from the S2s. There is a relay lever and a link tube (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/s2parts/f/s2fh.pdf) that translates the front/aft, right/left motion to the rear link. On mine, there is an arm attached to a diagonal selector shaft (see the picture of the rear of my tranny). I've also attached a picture of how it is mounted in the rear. Keep in mind that I have a LHD car. There are some designs for cable shifters. Cable shifters come highly recommended by people who have them and it's something I'm considering for a future modification (there are LOTS of them though so it may never happen).

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Let’s play what on earth is this.
« Reply #2 on: Sunday,May 17, 2020, 12:11:41 PM »
The installation of any 5-spd, except a 365 into a 365 equipped TC, is custom work.  Nothing drops in.  Locate the engine block using the stock engine mounts and then you can better see what will be required to mount the transaxle.

Offline ACW270

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Re: Let’s play what on earth is this.
« Reply #3 on: Monday,May 18, 2020, 08:12:21 AM »
May we see your engine without the cover?  I'd like to understand the R16 'Gordini' engine.  I am familiar with the R16TS and TX cross flows but not a Gordini version of the R16.  I am going through the same 'What on earth is this?' process myself and have had to compile a list of which engine types go with which car.  There are 26 on my list so far!  And of course many of the Renault parts can be mixed and matched.  What engine type number is yours? 

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Let’s play what on earth is this.
« Reply #4 on: Monday,May 18, 2020, 12:33:26 PM »
By the 70s, Gordini was a badge added to the high performance model in a line-up.  The engines were still good, even better than Gordini made them.   The 807-12/13/20 was the hot engines.  12s and 13s were emission compliant, 20s not so much.  Renault also sold crate racing engines.  The 807G is a high performance version of the 807 at about 140 or so HP.  Alpine made larger and hotter versions for their rally cars.

Gordini himself was a self-taught "magician" who did amazing things with poorly designed (performance-wise) stock engines.  When engine design became a science, he was left behind.  A similar thing happened to Cooper race cars in F1.

Here's an example.  High compression ratios in hemispherical engines result in large thin combustion chambers.  This leads to long burn times.  Many competition engines were "twin plugged" to speed up the burn time so you could run less ignition lead.  The engines made more power and ran cooler as well.  Fitting a second plug is not easy.  Here was Gordini's solution:

http://www.2040-parts.com/_content/items/images/66/1231266/001.jpg

The spark plug is almost completely shielded.  This, needless to say, made things worse.  Combined with lots of other mods, however, you might not realize it was creating a problem.  My favourite example of this is the tuner of Mike Hailwood's TT winning Ducati twin.  He spent hours on the track dialling in the engines for a nice fat mid-range hit.  Now modern testing equipment reveals he actually dialled in a flat spot to get his mid-range hit!

Seat of the pants tuning only gets you so far.
« Last Edit: Monday,May 18, 2020, 12:36:16 PM by jbcollier »

Offline Gmg31

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Re: Let’s play what on earth is this.
« Reply #5 on: Monday,May 18, 2020, 12:40:24 PM »
Some  ore photos of the gearbox. Anyone know what type it is please.

Offline BDA

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Re: Let’s play what on earth is this.
« Reply #6 on: Monday,May 18, 2020, 01:26:49 PM »
After those pictures, I am more convinced it is an NG series. The usual conversion is NG3 but without the tag, I think you need to open it up to tell the difference. You can find the manual here: http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/ng.pdf

Here are some more pictures of mine.
« Last Edit: Monday,May 18, 2020, 01:35:20 PM by BDA »

Offline ACW270

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Re: Let’s play what on earth is this.
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday,May 19, 2020, 05:20:01 AM »
Thank you, JB.  Are you aware of any good books on the topic of Renault/Gordini?

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Let’s play what on earth is this.
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday,May 19, 2020, 06:47:28 AM »
Not much in English.  This book is good:

Amedee Gordini: A True Racing Legend, by Roy Smith

Books on Alpine racing cars also cover Gordini as he tuned their engines.  There isn't a specific book that covers the later years in detail.  Renault bought both Gordini and Alpine and they became the racing arm of Renault.  In the mid to late 60s, Gordini's engines couldn't keep up and Renault themselves took over while still using the Gordini name prominently.

Offline Mecky

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Re: Let’s play what on earth is this.
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday,May 19, 2020, 07:03:19 AM »
Some  ore photos of the gearbox. Anyone know what type it is please.
It looks like an NG3 gearbox to me. You can see the NG3, which I just bought two weeks ago in the pics attached (the dirty one in the third pic). The bell housing is different, because mine was originally installed in a 2,0 litre Renault Fuego.

But I used it to get some parts to repair my damaged 395 gearbox. I didn't want to change the gearbox and suspension mountings on my car.