Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: vito84 on Friday,July 04, 2014, 12:50:19 AM
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Hi guys,
mi name is Vito and i write from Italy and i hope you apologize me for my english.
I'm looking for an Europa, i've found one here in italy but i'm not sure if is it a good one.
So, during my information searching i've discovered your forum and a lot of very interesting things.
I would to ask you an help about the car you see in the attached pics.
Can you give also suggestion about how and what check about it?
Thank you, best regards
Vito
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Hi Vito,
Looking at the photos the car looks nice, but you'll need to check the chassis which is hard
without ramps, though not impossible. The rear valance is a modification to standard as are the exhausts!
Interior looks good, standard oatmeal in colour with an expensive original steering wheel. I am from UK and prices are
a lot higher for Europas here than in USA. Probably higher still in Italy?
Enjoy, ciao!
Rgds, Mark
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Agree, from the pictures, appears to be a nice looking drivable Europa. Seems odd that it still has the emissions evaporative canister, perhaps a former federal car? I like the four tipped exhaust pipes out the rear. It's also the first time I've seen those brake boosters. I wonder where they came from.
Besides the chassis, check for any play in the rear hubs.
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:Welcome:
Don't worry about your English. It is A LOT better than my Italian (Pizza, Spaghetti, Ravioli, Lasagna... after that it goes down hill really fast! :)).
It does look like a pretty nice car. Of course a lot depends on the price and there's no way I could judge that for a car in Italy. A few things seem to show that the car was actively maintained - the blue gas tanks (it is not trivial to get them out), the replacement boosters, the rear valence is custom and seems nicely installed. I'm not a fan of the four exhaust tips but that's a personal preference.
Grunble and Europaforever pointed you to the main areas of Europa issues. Other than that, check it like any other car. Keep in mind it's an old car so go over it carefully and as completely as you can.
Good luck and let us know what happens!
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I'm a bit concerned about the carbs bolted directly to the intake runners without a balance pipe. Suggests a modified Federal car, as does the vapour tank.
It needs a good check over, but might easily be a good car.
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I'm a bit concerned about the carbs bolted directly to the intake runners without a balance pipe. Suggests a modified Federal car, as does the vapour tank.
It needs a good check over, but might easily be a good car.
Good eye, Roger!
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Hi to everybody,
I confirm that the car is a former federal and in the US life was used as race car. Next saturday i will go to view and check it.
In Italy these car are very rare, but prices are a little bit less than UK. Only in USA there are very affordable prices!
Regards
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Vito,
incorrect shift knob, should have chrome bumpers.
mike
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What is the chassis number?
It should be something like 73053489R, where 73 05 are the year and month and 3489 is the actual chassis number and R is US specification.
If you find out the number, we might know some more about it.
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Welcome to the forum, Vito. Good luck in your search for a Europa. Keep us posted. Cheers :beerchug:
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Hi guys,
i'm back from my Lotus Europa visit.
I post some new pics, before explain my doubts i would like to know your opinion about it (and also a possible economical quotation ).
Thank you for your help.
Best regards.
Vito
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Pictures
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Pictures
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Ultimate pictures
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Vito,
that is indeed a U.S car. The paint number on the tag, if I read it right, is L28, Rover Brown. Did I see that number correctly?
That would be the first Rover brown Europa I've seen.
Of course the air filter housing is toast but used or new can be purchased. Are there any waves in the body work as you look down the sides. How about the door gaps?
As to price............boy, you got me stumped as Lotus prices all over the world differ greatly. What is the guy asking for the car? Did you drive it? Wiring under the dash is a little on the jiggy side but all and all, it doesn't look like a bad car, of course depending on the price. I see some rubbing on the real axle from the exhaust pipe
mike
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Hi Vito,
It looks good to me generally. but as cal says, it's hard to put a price on it because the prices vary from location to location.
Again as cal says, the air filter box should be replaced with something good. There is supposed to be a little plastic box to cover the cam/detent for the tranny. You can see where it is supposed to go in 20.jpg. There are oil leaks in the usual places (gear selector shaft of the tranny and the rubber tube between the head and the block. Neither of them are serious. I don't think you can fix the tranny leak and the rube requires you to remove the head. Neither seem bad so I wouldn't worry about them. Just consider it as rust prevention! ;). The boosters have been replaced. Again, cal is right that it is a US car. I believe most of the European cars had Webers or Dellortos. That's not a bad thing. I would expect Stromberg carbs to be available in Europe (though Weber parts would probably be easier in Italy ;). Weber heads are pretty rare and expensive). I don't think the European cars had the big valve engine though I may be wrong.
It appears to be a pretty solid car. As for price, you should see if you can get some idea from past sales (ebay, Lotus clubs, etc.).
Good luck and keep us up to date with what happens!
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Car was built April 1974 and "invoiced" around 23rd July 1974. One of the very last to be exported to the USA.
(4683R was also Rover Brown, not my favourite colour).
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It looks like the car has lived a hard life, a tad on the rough side. One thing in its favor is that it seems to be runner, looking at the photo taken on a public street. It all depends on how badly you want the car and the scarcity of Europas in the rest of Europe. What would it worth here in the US? A rough but drivable TCS, I'm thinking $7k-$9k assuming a good chassis and a strong engine.
I checked the registry on LEC and this car would be the second to the last entry there if it were registered, it's not.
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Hi guys,
things that puzzle me are:
rubber between cylinder block and head.
oil leaks in several point of engine/gearbox
lack of some parts of the intake manifold (2nd throttle body, piping, etc.)
tachometer out of order.
the car runs but exhaust pops during accelerator releasing
car was resprayed in red, original color L28 rover brown.
Asked price 17500€
I'm sorry but i don't understand what is door gap...
It could be a good base for a restoration but i think price is a little bit too high due to what i've explained above.
I'm worried mainly for the engine/gearbox... :help:
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Hi Vito,
First let me address the price. If the car were in the US, that would be pretty high (converted to dollars). Of course, the Italian market may command higher prices but there are issues with this car. At some point, the oil drain from the head to the block (the rubber between the cylinder block and head (9.jpg on reply #11) will have to be repaired. Also in looking up some old pictures, I noticed what looks like a particularly ugly repair of an oil leak from the cam cover (11.jpg on reply #12). If that's all it is, that's a simple thing to fix properly. The oil drip from the gear selector shaft (24.jpg on reply #13) is common and expected. I believe the secondary throttle body is not required as it was part of an emission control device to warm a portion of the input charge. The popping could be from a rich mixture or ignition timing. If it the mixture, the carbs may need to be rebuilt and may need a new mixture needle. I don't believe it is caused by taking out the emission control parts.
As you say, it is a pretty good base for a restoration, but a car you're going to restore shouldn't cost almost US$24000.
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I would allow around €5,000 - €6,000 to sort the car out.
The engine is not complicated, so not much can be wrong. The cylinder heads are expensive, but your problem sounds like the ignition timing or the fuel/air mixture is wrong.
You won't find a later US spec left hand drive car.
If the metal chassis is not rusted, it would be worth buying at the right price. What it is worth to you when it is finished is for you to know. It all depends on how much you want a Europa Special, and what you would have to pay for a really good one. To get a good one from the USA and bring it to Europe would cost you $24,000 = €17,650.
Therefore I think it is too expensive at €17,500. That is a very "full" price. For me, that would be top price if everything "va bene". Offer no more than €12,500 to allow for sorting out the engine and other things. If he does not sell, buy a good car from the USA and ship it over.
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Ciao Vito,
in effetti la cifra che chiedono è un po' alta per quello che si vede in foto.
12.000 euro sembra un prezzo più che adeguato.
Se ci metti mano, perché vuoi riverniciarla e sistemare i piccoli problemucci meccanici conta almeno altri 12000.
Credo che il proprietario si renda conto di non avere un gioiello tra le mani, altrimenti pazienta che di buone occasioni se ne trovano.
ciao e buona serata,
Valerio
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The asking price is over the top (way to much). In the states you could buy darn near perfect Europa for that price. I don't know what it costs to ship and duties paid to Italy.
Just a thought.
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Hi guys,
i'm back from another Lotus Europa visit.
I post some pics and i would like to know your opinion about it (and also a possible economical quotation ).
Thank you for your help.
Best regards.
Vito
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Europa Twin Cam,built around November 1971 for the UK market.
Not possible to put a value on it without seeing photos of the interior and engine compartment.
In very good condition, it would be worth around €20,000 in the UK.
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This looks pretty nice. I am a little concerned about what appears to be a gap between the tranny and the U-joint yoke. Assuming it has the original suspension and half shafts, it needs to fit tight against the area around the output shaft of the tranny. In fact, it needs to be shimmed. But it's probably that I'm missing some detail in the picture. There's another thread about the roll pins on the inboard U-joints shearing (couldn't find it, sorry) and they don't last long if you don't set those U-joints up properly. It's worth a look, anyway.
I'm a little confused by the fan behind the spare tire ???
It looks like rust or is that dirt on the brake pipe coming from the master cylinder?
I'd also like to see some pictures of the interior and engine compartment.
The body looks nice and the sunroof (if it allows enough head room and you don't have to store it in the garage) is a nice addition for summer driving.
The suspension all looks straight.
What are they asking for it? Can you post some more pictures?
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To add a bit on BDA's comments, the fan is just like the one I used to have on my TC, the idea is that it blows into the front plenum chamber. I think you guys had snail-type covers on yours, the UK ones just swung in the breeze.... :)
Body looks good as everyone has said, the suspension looks "used". Nothing wrong with that, but it's seen some miles judging from the condition. The link from the upper front wishbone to the anti-roll bar looks a different shape from mine, mine is just a straight connecting rod without the swan-neck bend. Don't know if that's important or not, it's just to hold the bar in place I suppose but it looks different so I'll mention it - check the attachment.
Sorry but I've no idea on price. I'm in a time-warp where these things are concerned (or as the wife says "a world of your own") and every time I see a price I keep saying "how much ????"
Brian
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Other pictures
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Thanks for straightening me out on the fan, EuropaTC. You're right. I have s squirrel cage fan on mine.
These pictures look pretty good. The braided lines are a nice touch as are the headers. We in the US would have preferred to have we Dellortos on our cars rather than the Strombergs. The interior needs a little attention but over all it's nice. The dash looks like it's in very good shape. It looks like it is a replacement.
Overall, it looks pretty nice.
What are they asking for it?
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They ask the same price of the other Europa posted before by me... but, at the same cars status i think the red one must costs less than a half of the white one
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I agree. The white one is much nicer!
Let us know what you do and how it goes!
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Vito, Are you a new owner? Or still shopping?
I'm curious on the white car, what is the red lever/handle on the firewall between the seats and below the interior light? Does it have some sort of fire suppression system?
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Vito, since you are Italy, wouldn't you want a left hand drive car? Also the white car has had the roof cut open. Geez, for all that money, maybe importing one from the U.S is a better idea.
I sold my Sunbeam Tiger to a fellow in Australia. He mentioned it wasn't a big deal. You just need to trust the seller and be ready to pay stupid money for import fees.
mike
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I'm curious on the white car, what is the red lever/handle on the firewall between the seats and below the interior light? Does it have some sort of fire suppression system?
I think it's a battery cut-out switch Mark. I have a similar thing on my car, but situated inside the engine bay next to the battery. Apart from being able to isolate the battery it also serves as a good anti-theft device because the red handle is removable. (but if you have a modern radio, you stand a good chance of losing the pre-set stations ::) )
Brian
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Oh. Inside on the firewall seems an odd place to mount the switch, but not a big deal.
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Hi guys
Last saturday i carried to home my Lotus Europa!!
Tomorrow i post here car's pics.
The previous owner give me fiber glass sill cover set but i don't know how can i fix the kit to the car and i want to know where can i find(if there're)engine serial number and chassis number beyond data present on the front id plate.
Thank you.
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Congratulations Vito!!! :beerchug:
I'm not sure what you mean by "sill cover". Are you talking about the panel that runs between the wheel arches and under the doors?
I don't know if or where a serial number is on the frame. Usually, serial numbers are on a tag on the deck of the block near the head. Sorry I can't be more specific than that. Maybe somebody else has better information.
I can't wait to see the pictures!
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:) :beerchug:
(http://wiki.seloc.org/images/6/66/VIN_Location_-_Europa.PNG)
http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Chassis_number (http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Chassis_number)
or
(http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/chassisnr.jpg)
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Not necessarily. S1s have the chassis number stamped on a plate that is riveted to the chassis further to the rear than where you have indicated. Not all S2s have stamped chassises, certainly the early S2 I picked up (replacement for my S1's rotted one) wasn't. I suspect it also had the chassis no on a stamped plate that went AWOL under previous ownership.
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Hi guys.
i post my car pictures.However yes,i mean the part between the wheels, under the door.
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She's a beauty, Vito!!!
IIRC, a chrome trim strip used to be part of the attachment mechanism but that is no longer available. I believe r.d. enterprises (http://www.rdent.com/) has a kit that includes a similar trip strip and some 3M badge tape. I believe there are clips that clip onto the bottom of the body work and the sill cover so you might check if he has them, too. The sill cover is slides over the bottom edge of the bodywork (and clipped or not). The badge tape runs along the top of the inside of the cover and sticks the cover to the body. Then the ends are pop riveted to the inside of the wheel arch. The new trim strip is stuck on the body with badge tape (or it has its own tape) just above - not on - the sill cover. It's trimmed to length and the ends are dressed with matching chrome ends. It's not a great picture but you can see how it looks on my car.
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Congratulations Vito. :coolpic: That's a nice looking Europa, and I like the period wheels. Do you have it on the road yet? How does it run? Cheers, and have fun.
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:I-agree:
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Thank you BDA for your information, and i can say that your car is fantastic!!
I will try to fit the parts in the future(also twin cam wheels), now i need to refresh basics parts of the car, such as brakes oil alternator belt because it isn't registered yet!!
I far from Germany to italy with the car, it's runs very well and seems fast but unfortunately now i have to waiting a lot of time to get historic register and have the permission to drive!!
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Thank you, Vito, for your kind words.
I wish I had a better picture but I think it's pretty simple when you get down to do it - if I can do it, ANYBODY can! I don't think you will but if you do get hung up, let me know.
You must be on pins and needles waiting to get permission to drive it!