5 Speed Transaxle

[Footer]

I got my 73 Twin Cam Special almost three years ago and have been working on it hit and miss since but not during the winters since I don't have a heated work area.  The motor was partially disassembled and not in the car when I took possession in August of 2019. It is now back together and the motor is running, ready for me to begin road driving as soon as I can sort a problem with the transaxle, a 365.

Sitting in the car with no motor running, reverse, third, fourth and fifth are easily accessed, although the linkage has a vagueness to it that leaves a lot to be desired. When trying to access first or second, I have to make multiple attempts at it, kind of like fishing for the right linkage position.  The first attempts are met with a blocked path  but eventually it goes into what seems to be the correct position.

With the motor running, all of this is the same but what seems to be first and second are really third and fourth gears and I come to this conclusion based on revving the engine and slipping the clutch to get moving.  My tachometer is not connected right now so that's not available as a reference.  I've attached a video that provides a view of the action from the rear of the transaxle with some description of what's happening. This appears to show first and second being engaged when in fact, they are not.  With the motor running and me in the car, I have yet to engage either first or second gears.

Based on a thread form this site a while ago, I'm using Swepco 210 multi grade gear oil in the transaxle.  I even thought cold oil might be the problem so I let the car idle in neutral for a while to get the gear oil warmer.  This had no effect.

When I bought the car, it had set idle since perhaps 1976 and was partially disassembled.  The odometer read 22,000 miles and I have no reason to think that was not accurate.  So, given the choice to go after the transaxle while the motor was at the machine shop, I chose not to, thinking it was in good condition.

I'm anything but a transaxle expert, with almost no understanding of how they work.  I have a career mechanic who helps me and is confident we can solve the problem by taking the trannie out of the car, disassembling it and diagnosing then correcting the problem.  I have lots of confidence in his help but he's never been in one of these either.

I also thought it might be worn linkage bushings , although the motion seemed to be pretty tight.  The one at the base of the shifter was all but gone so I replaced it.  The one at the universal joint seemed in good order but I replaced it anyway.  This improved the feel of the shifting motion but had no effect on the first and second issue.

So, I'm looking for help with this and hoping someone on the site can help with an understanding of the problem.

Can't attach the video right now because of file type and size.  I will try to solve this issue and then post it later.

Thanks  Footer

[Bainford]

Have you attempted to find first and second by manipulating the linkage by hand at the rear of the transmission? This may tell you if the gears are actually accessible. If so, the problem is in the linkage, not the transmission.

Edit: on second thought, if you are getting reverse, you should have enough throw for first and second. May be worth a try just the same.

[BDA]

It seems you’ve checked the first two places that give problems. I assume the u-joint you refer to is the u-joint at the tranny. After that you need to look at the joint at the bell housing. There’s a pivot with a rubber bushing in it and a rod end that is pinned to the linkage. I understand that after you get the pin out, it requires heat to get it apart.

Have you checked that joint?

[EuropaTC]

Starting off with the "I have never had the 365 box" confession, my comments should be taken with caution.....

My first call would be linkage. Pretty much everything can/does wear and it only takes a small amount at each joint to make selecting anything like a random number generator.    I know you've gone through some things, but as a checklist to get stuff in order;
1. Obvious one - is the actual lever assembly tight in it's bush and the assembly bolted firmly to the chassis ?
2. My prime suspect starts at the bushes at the bottom of the gear stick, not only fore/aft but also sideways motion. I've got skinny arms so can feel this through the hole underneath the arm rest pad while moving the lever. Folks have replaced these with brass/bronze for a better feel.
3. The metal/rubber pivot bush which is attached to the bellhousing by a long bolt. It's easy for this to loosen and introduce a lot of play.
4. The rose joint/rod end bearing at the same place. Less of a problem in my experience but still on the checklist.
5. The first metal U-Joint by the bellhousing. A small play here has a big effect further down the line.
6. Lastly, the final U-Joint on the selector to the box.

The best way to check is for someone to select gears whilst you watch the joints in the engine bay & rear of the car. You should be able to hold the joints and feel play as the selector shaft is moved.

IMO any movement is bad news. If everything is tight it's actually not that bad a selection, certainly not the mess that was often claimed in road tests. It's not as good as a modern box or even the old Elan/Ford boxes but even so you should be able to feel confident in selecting a gear.

Brian

[Pfreen]

The first thing to do is to remove the roll pin holding the shift tube to the transaxle. Removing the shift tube universal roll pin from the transmission can be challenging.  I use a slightly bent and ground 1/4" drill rod to get to the pin from the top and tap it out.

Next, pull off the shift tube.  You then have access to the transaxle shift yoke.

Anyway, put a screw driver through the pin hole of the shift yoke.   Half way between full forward and full back is neutral.  Full anticlockwise against a spring resistance and back is reverse.   put it in neutral.  Then half anticlockwise and back is first.  Half anti clockwise and forward is second.  Half clockwise and back is third.  Half clockwise and forward is fourth.  Finally, full clockwise against a spring load and back is fifth.

It's not that easy to write these directions clearly, so if you don't understand or I made a mistake, please let me know.

This will test out your transaxle.  I do suspect your problem is with the linkage.  If the transaxle is ok, you can attack it.  It simple, but a pita.

[Footer]

Morning.  I wasn't able to upload the video but I added it to YouTube and here is the link:

https://studio.youtube.com/video/aUO5YvgX9o8/edit

[jbcollier]

Link doesn’t work for me.

[Footer]

jb, the link on my desktop PC works but when I try it on my Apple IPad it doesn't work.  I'm not sure how to fix that but I'm looking into it.

Sorry for the glitch.

[Footer]

You could also search YouTube for Renault 365 Transaxle Shifting. 

[jbcollier]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUO5YvgX9o8

[jbcollier]

Looks to me that the external indent unit might be slightly in the  wrong place making access to the 1-2 rail difficult.

[Footer]

jb thanks for correcting my link.

So based upon your comment, I would remove it and rotate it one notch or slot?  I could go clockwise and try it , if no improvement then try counterclockwise.
If you look at the plate behind the external indent, there is a substantial weld.  I know nothing about it but wonder if that is a contributing factor.  Can't imagine how that got damaged.

[jbcollier]

Remove it and try finding your gears without it.  If 1-2 are there then you have found your problem and can closely examine the detent mech to see how it could be adjusted/modified.  Don’t make any mods until you have isolated the issue!

[Footer]

It was finally today that I could work on the Lotus and I didn't want anyone to think I had forgotten or was ignoring all of the good advice.

I took everyone's advice and dug into the linkage rather than the transaxle and it turns out EVERYONE WAS RIGHT!  Had nothing to with the trannie thankfully.

I went back over every inch and joint of the linkage from the shift lever to the u joint at the back of the transaxle.  All of it was in good repair although I did find a loose bolt where the bushing mounts to the bell housing.  Still did not give me access to first or second.  jp's suggestion was interesting and I then focused in that area.  Turns out the Housing Reverse Indent is adjustable, although I didn't find any reference to this in the shop manual.  In the picture below, it's the rectangular box in the upper, right hand corner that houses the indent ball and spring.  It's mounted to the cross member with two bolts.  One is a pivot point and the other is slotted so it can be rotated around the pivot point.  By rotating the Housing Reverse Indent I gained more clockwise rotation on the control shaft, gaining access to first and second.  That let me drive it up and down my driveway with gears and shifting feeling normal.  Next up is to activate the road insurance and get a license plate.  I was thinking of a personalized plate with "EAU ROUGE"  I'm eagerly anticipating a short road trip to get acquainted with the Europa since this is my first and I've never driven one.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and knowledge, I appreciate all of it.

[BDA]

 Congratulations!!! I bet that's exciting!

Let us know how your first "real" drive goes.