Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: TheKid#9 on Sunday,November 15, 2020, 04:38:41 PM
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Hey Everyone,
It seems that I have any issue with my differential. I may need a gearbox or parts to fix it. I am unsure of where to go for parts or a spare gearbox.
I haven't taken the Europa to my mechanic yet but I have a real good feeling it is the diff. It shifts smoothly but when driving, it has a loud clank. This is the only issue I have had with my Europa since the restoration and we did not go through the gearbox during the restoration. 9 years of ownership and this is the only thing that has broken... Not bad!
Thanks,
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Hey Kid!
Sorry you’re having trouble. Can you tell us when you hear the clank? What are you and/or the car doing when it makes the noise? How often? Anything you can say about it.
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Hey BDA,
It clanks either going forward or in reverse. It is loud. It comes on and off, so its definitely in the rotation which I believe it is in the diff. Suspension is good and all the rear shocks/springs are new so I know it is in the gearbox.
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Does it clank continuously as you motor down the road or as you backup? Or does it clank once? When you shift? Is there anything else you can tell us about it?
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I have been in talks with Michel from Alpine America about parts for 365. Give him a try mguegan@alpine-america.qc.ca
http://www.alpine-america.qc.ca/
(http://www.alpine-america.qc.ca/)
Sadly I don't even think my 365 is good for parts at this point.
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Michel’s English is good but his accent is very thick. Unless your French is good, I’d advise you to email him in French using Google translate.
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Michel’s English is good but his accent is very thick. Unless your French is good, I’d advise you to email him in French using Google translate.
Oui
I was able to talk with him on the phone in English but I am somewhat used to hearing an accent.
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Chris, Bearing123 has all the bearings you need and they are very inexpensive compared to anyone else. Once you have the transaxle apart you can get all the bearing numbers off them and provide Bearing 123 with the numbers. They do not supply cheap Asian knockoffs. They even had a bearing for my transaxle that I was told isn’t manufactured anymore.
One time I spoke with the owner (he is European but speaks good English) and we both had a certain bearing in our hands with a micrometer to confirm dimensions. Great customer service!
Alpine America has specific knowledge of these Transaxles so they can be more helpful, but Bearing123 has much lower prices.
Good luck!
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You're sure it's not a u/j? Jack up one rear wheel, car in gear, and rotate wheel to and fro. Then try other side. Any help?
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The description of the problem is rather vague.
I would check for worn splines in hubs/stub axles, worn stub axle bearings, and worn u-joints before ripping into the transaxle.
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Chris, Bearing123 has all the bearings you need and they are very inexpensive compared to anyone else. Once you have the transaxle apart you can get all the bearing numbers off them and provide Bearing 123 with the numbers. They do not supply cheap Asian knockoffs. They even had a bearing for my transaxle that I was told isn’t manufactured anymore.
One time I spoke with the owner (he is European but speaks good English) and we both had a certain bearing in our hands with a micrometer to confirm dimensions. Great customer service!
Alpine America has specific knowledge of these Transaxles so they can be more helpful, but Bearing123 has much lower prices.
Good luck!
I have had great service from Bearing 123 too for my GT40. Ships quick even from Belgium and cheap prices.
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It is almost a continuous clank and it is definitely coming from inside the gearbox. It shifts fine though. While we take it all apart I will replace the wheel bearings as well. I do not think it is anything with the u-joints or axles.
Glen - I'll check out Bearing 123 as I have heard of Alpine-America before.
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Bearing123 has the Renault pinion bearing?
Not sure what is causing the noise but STOP DRIVING IT. If it is in the diff, and making that much noise, it is seconds away from grenading. Lift it up the rear and support it safely. Clunking like that should be easy to find. Wiggle everything up, down and sideways until you find it.
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One option, if it does turn out to be in the diff, is to fit a Torsen diff from Quiafe. I did with mine and have been delighted.
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I will keep you all updated on the process but as of right now it is sitting in the garage awaiting room at my mechanics shop.
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I had my 365 fail some years ago - the metal cage around one of the diff bearing broke - the diff gears ground up the pieces. Ended until replacing some gears, all syncros, bearings, seals, O-rings, etc. reset the ring and pinion backlash and the side bearing preloads. Take your time and, with the shop manual, you can put it back together.
Tom
74 TCS
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I had my 365 fail some years ago - the metal cage around one of the diff bearing broke - the diff gears ground up the pieces. Ended until replacing some gears, all syncros, bearings, seals, O-rings, etc. reset the ring and pinion backlash and the side bearing preloads. Take your time and, with the shop manual, you can put it back together.
Tom
74 TCS
Tom,
Do you have a source for 365 gearsets you could share?
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NOS 365 gearsets = pure unobtainium. Find used or not at all. That's why there's been a raft of NG3 installations -- a stronger trans but nowhere near as nice gear ratios.
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Yes . . unobtainium.
There's a guy the Renault & Alpine people use who I think is Scottish . . and not cheap.
The Renault guys do all sorts of things like stuffing the 336 innards into a R8 gearbox for the extra strength. I recall the Scott even does work like extending a 352 main shaft to fit into a 365 tranny. Actually, a 365 with a 3.55 diff would be brilliant, I reckon.
I'm blowed if I can remember his name, but I'll work on that.
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I too had a noise, weird that it only happened on light deceleration. I wiggled the axles and u-joints which all seemed tight so went into the gearbox. Nothing. It turned out to be the outboard bearing on the right carrier had shed its cage. Apparently when I assembled it, the spacer cocked slightly causing the failure (15kmiles on it before failure) The use of a double row ball bearing on the inside of the carrier kept everything really tight when trying to locate the fault.
So, how many miles on the axle bearings/u-joints? Did you install an aluminum flywheel on the restoration? Did you reset the pinion/crown backlash at that time? Who set up the shim pack for the inner yokes? Pins still in, and no fretting observed? Any leakage around the yokes?
Hope it all ends well!!
Jerry Rude
4005R
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Chuck - some of the parts came from Dave Bean and some from a fellow in Maine who is no longer in business - can’t remember his name but he went on to write a number of books - his real calling evidently.
Tom
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Chris, have you checked the 4 bolts on the inside of the rear wheel bearing housing to see if they have come loose? There is a very tight tolerance and if the have started to loosen they can hit part of the half shaft assembly and cause a clunking sound with each revolution of the wheel. That would be the easiest thing to check before taking the transaxle out.
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Chris, have you checked the 4 bolts on the inside of the rear wheel bearing housing to see if they have come loose? There is a very tight tolerance and if the have started to loosen they can hit part of the half shaft assembly and cause a clunking sound with each revolution of the wheel. That would be the easiest thing to check before taking the transaxle out.
Hey Glen,
I have not checked that... Might do that this weekend or next weekend. I hope that is the problem because I really do not want to take everything apart. I'll keep you guys updated.
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Took a quick look tonight and it doesn't seem that those four bolts are loose... I have already put some feelers out there for a new gearbox just in case. :headbanger:
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Drain the gearbox oil. If it's clean, it's not the gearbox.
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We drained the gearbox oil and only found one metal piece (Very Small) and a couple filings. We feel reasonable about the gearbox and believe it is the wheel bearing that we know is bad. We will work on fixing the bearing before we take the gearbox out.
It only happens when the car is driven and gets hot. My dad thinks the wheel bearing gets hot and then has a problem. We are working on figuring out the issue.
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That's metal?
I would pull the transaxle apart and see where it came from. Remember, parts are hard to find so you want to catch things early.
Loud, gawd-awful clunking from the transaxle and suspension should not be temperature related. Worse, perhaps, but not quiet and then loud.
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It is not the gearbox... Thank God!
My mechanic found that the stub axle and everything in the rear hub was damaged. It seems that the bearing was for the TC and not for the TCS, the numbers did not match up. Ordered parts from Ray to have it all fixed. Should be back on the road sooner than later.
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Great, Kid! It sounds like you will get your baby fixed up and on the road soon!
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Indeed! Looking to have it back soon. Since it’s been down for awhile I’ve been enjoying my other Lotus I picked up earlier this year... Enjoy!
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I’m so envious!! :beerchug:
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:I-agree:
and , ITS BLACK.
:beerchug: DMAN
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I am British racing green with envy! (sorry...I've used that before but couldn't resist) Could you compare the two for us?
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Thanks for the kind words everyone!
Driving the Elan is totally different from the Europa. I find myself throwing the Elan around a little more than the Europa because if I loose it in the Europa, I'm dead. I can drive the Europa with my foot in the corners. Give it gas, it understeers, let off the gas it oversteers. I think since I built the car with my father, I am more hesitant with it as well. It still scares me more than any other car we own. It is built for shows and cruising whereas the Elan is set up for road/race. It has CV axles, no rubber doughnuts, race shocks/springs and rebuilt engine that pulls strong.
Both are fantastic cars and a joy to drive.
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Chris, It’s a very small club that gets to own both a Europa and an Elan at the same time. Cherish the differences in driving them. I know I did.
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:I-agree:
and , ITS BLACK.
:beerchug: DMAN
For anyone who doesn't get the joke, D'man is famous for painting all his possessions a high quality gloss black. His wife was encouraging him to paint the kitchen recently, and I think we all pictured the walls, ceiling, and all the appliances in a beautiful gloss onyx. We can only hope...
t
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I'd still go through the transaxle. That was a big sliver of metal.
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Glad to hear the good news, Chris. And congrats on the sweet Elan.
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I'd still go through the transaxle. That was a big sliver of metal.
Larger than what I found lying in my Triumph Spitfire overdrive trans.
I will be going through it before use, I suspect a damaged bearing cage.
Pictured part looks like it might be the same type issue.
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Should have the Europa back soon. They are fixing a couple other things but I’ll have it back on the road sooner than later.
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That is great news! Let us know how it all worked out.
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The Europa is back at my house and all is well! Not a single rattle, vibration or noise. The car is running perfectly! Just needs to be washed now.
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Great, Kid! :beerchug:
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Great news!