Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Lumbes on Saturday,November 07, 2020, 11:10:05 AM
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Do any of you know what I can do to fit this...?
It is a federal tcs with the strombergs swapped to webers. The "breather tube" (not sure what it's actually called) fitting is too large. Will have to downsize just not sure on where to start. Also the cap on the cam cover leaks a little. Would like to stop that leak but the cap looks great. I assume its just the rubber seal inside. Any way to just replace the rubber? Thank you
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First post.
:Welcome:
Are you saying that the breather tube will not fit in the hole in the head?
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:Welcome: Lumbes!!
That tube is supposed to connect to the airbox. If your air filter will allow you to connect a breather hose up to it, you might try adapting it at one side or the other (at the head or the air filter). You could also just run a hose to a catch can and then you could use any size that's easy.
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Lumbes...First of all, welcome to the community!
The oil cap seal is no big deal, you can first try the poor man's method and just flip it over.
If it's cracked or brittle you can easily fabricate one...or hunt down a like replacement.
The breather fitting into the cylinder head can be replaced or the hose if you prefer. Your local hardware or major box store should have what you need. I used a standard barbed gas fitting.The venting oil vapors can be sent directly back to induction via a separator/ catch can if you desire.
The hose is typically attached to the air box or air filter. The factory set up was a solid steel tube.
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Yes, welcome Lumbes,
The cap on the cam cover may be overwhelmed by the cam lobe below it throwing oil up at it. Check under the cap if there is a sheet metal piece blocking the oil being tossed at it. If not there, then get one from Bean or RDent.
The oil breather tube is a must, at least to minimize leakage of the motor gaskets since the Twink can build up crankcase pressures. The stock steel tube had a spark arrestor screen in it also to prevent a pressure wave on carb backfire. It looks like the DPO left a bit of the old tube in the grommet to connect to. Just get the appropriate tubing to connect to the inlet side of the carbs, behind the air filter. You may have to modify the filters on those ugly webers to make it work though. LOL
Jerry Rude
4005R
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Thank you everyone for the replies
No sheet metal under the cap but I like that idea so going to order one from one of those places, thank you.
Let me see if I have this. The breather tube that is coming from the carbs should go to the airbox that isn't on the car and the breather hole in the cylinder head should be connected to the black cylinder tank that is not in the car but would go in the brackets?
I've added another picture below showing more of the engine bay
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The black cylinder tank I think you are referring to is a fuel catch tank as part of the emissions system (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/tcparts/l/tcla.pdf). Since you don’t have the standard induction, I can’t be positive but I think the breather from the carbs goes to the breather in the head that you asked about earlier.
What you used to have is pictured here: http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/tcparts/e/tcej.pdf
#9 is the original breather pipe between the head and the airbox (#4). This is what you need to replicate with your current carb setup.
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Okay I'm starting to follow what needs to happen here.
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If you’re familiar with the idea of a positive crankcase ventilation system, that’s what you’re implementing here. Pressure in the engine is relieved by venting the block (in this case via the head) with a connection to the carburetor which sucks some of the air out of the block.
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Looks like you already have a hose somehow hooked to the front air filter. Now you just need to get the right parts to hook it up to the head. A fuel safe hose that fits snugly into the hole in the head and pipe that fits snugly into the hose should do the trick.
BDA, positive crankcase venting (PCV) uses controlled manifold vacuum to pull air from the crankcase.
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I'll drive the car out to some local shops tomorrow probably advanced auto being it'll be sunday. I think they are open till 5pm in my area. Thank you for all the information looks like this will be cheap and easy.
Eventually I'd like to have high compression pistons n the better cams installed. The car drives great and the engine is smooth just down on power a bit being its all federal spec minus that carb conversion. I assume I'm less than 100hp currently being that's what they were like new? Around 130hp sounds nice and that is just over what the domestics were making right originally so should be possible with enough $$$? That's another and much more advanced rabbit hole that might not even be possible for me this year but I will dream. Will be happy to not destroy the engine seals further in the mean time though.
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You'll be losing power with that carb conversion. That's a very torturous route for the mix to have to travel.
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BDA, positive crankcase venting (PCV) uses controlled manifold vacuum to pull air from the crankcase.
Thanks for the clarification, JB.
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Interesting. First, welcome to the forum Lumbes!
I was confused by your photo, so I checked and realized I don’t have the breather tube you are referring to. My PO seems to have plugged the hole. I don’t seem to have any significant oil leaks. Should I be concerned?
Tom
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The first rule is always, "If it's not broke, don't fix it."
That said, you must have a breather somewhere. Look around. Maybe off the valve cover?
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"Stromberg's swapped to Webers", ah, I just noticed, NOT DCOE's! :(
Too many links on the 'Web, but somewhere I recall seeing a more modern upgrade to the old Stromberg's.
Stromberg's are actually not that bad if properly tuned. I have them on a couple of cars.
I expect someone got frustrated and a slick salesman persuaded them to buy the downdraft Webers you now have.
As mentioned above, not a direct flow path so not a real improvement.
I will see if I may find the Stromberg replacements.
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Those are my thoughts on what happened to the original strombergs as well. I didn't let it discourage me when purchasing though. Will enjoy ridding of the current carb setup and am looking for any and all suggestions on what would give it the best
performance/proper flow. Strombergs are what I'm leaning towards at the moment. Thank you Richard, yeah definitely let me know if anything worthwhile is found.
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Found them!
Weber 45MCHH, basically half of a DCOE and intended to replace Stromberg's.
They are seeing as lot of use on TR6's and similar British cars.
Apparently pretty new to the market, I believe they should be a bolt-on to your head.
Since they are essentially DCOE's and use the same jets, chokes, and venturies, tuning possibilities should be great.
Not as great as a true Weber head but almost certain to be an upgrade from the right angle flow you now have. And NEW, not worn out or "Rebuilt" to unknown quality.
No, I have no affiliation, but I am happy to see a new solution that does not require adding a computer. :))
EDIT: Hmm, seems the Weber Carb 45 MCHH may have been too good to be true.
I cannot find a current source for them.
They were originally conceived for use on Harley's.
One post I found said that Spain/Weber were in financial difficulty so some products were suspended.
Might be worth more research.
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V-performance.com sells Mikuni carb kits. Click on Mikuni link on left side of home page and then Scroll down there are comments etc. on a Twin Cam Stromberg conversion. They are on a '74 Europa TCS.... The guy made comments. 42, 45 & 48mm sizes available.
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+1 on the Mikuni flat slides. Webers have a lot of junk in their bores: main and auxiliary venturiis, butterfly and spindle and accell pump nozzle. The Mikuni flat slides have just an extremely thin needle and an accell pump nozzle. Also, as stock, the Stromberg heads flow better than the Weber heads. If I had a Stromberg equipped car, I would go to Mikunis rather than fit a Weber head.
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Checking out the v-performace site with the Mikuni carb kits and that is looking like a way to go. Thank you for the link.
Honestly I'm surprised the engine is able to perform as well as it does with my current carb set up but yeah they have to go. They are doing the car a disservice. Going to study up on my options and try to land on a decision by the end of the week.
Appreciate all the input.
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Hello Lumbes!
:Welcome:
Mark
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I believe that hose originally went to the vacuum system for the brake servos. If they have been removed then that hole in the manifold should be plugged. Otherwise you will have large manifold leak. Where is that hose currently going?
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Checking out the v-performace site with the Mikuni carb kits and that is looking like a way to go. Thank you for the link.
Honestly I'm surprised the engine is able to perform as well as it does with my current carb set up but yeah they have to go. They are doing the car a disservice. Going to study up on my options and try to land on a decision by the end of the week.
Appreciate all the input.
If you decide to go the Mikuni route, be sure to keep us posted. I am very curious about the Mikunis, and I'm sure some others are as well. I am currently in the process of replacing my worn out Strombergs with fresh ones, but I must say the Mikuni option is intriguing. The cost seems reasonable as well.
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I plugged the breather hole on the motor and left the tube connected to the carb with the other end hanging out behind the trunk connected to nothing. Don't know if that is right but the catch tank and charcoal canister are no longer part of the system. Looks like
the tube from the carb would fit if I would remove the plastic reducer from the breather on the engine. Leaving it how I mentioned above unless someone on here says I should change it.
Really leaning towards those mikunis from v-performance. Looking like a worth while switch. I'll be sure to post my results if I go with them.
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You need to vent the engine. If you don’t vent to you air filter housing, you should at least vent to a catch can which can be a bottle the hose goes into.
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Okay thank you. Any problem with removing that plastic reducer or whatever it is in the breather hole?
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No. All you’re after is a vent..
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Pulled out and tore the old breather grommet which was a hard pvc from the crankcase and ordered replacements from rdent. They are rubber and I connected the breather tube from the carburetors to the crankcase with ease. Nice snug fit and all seems well now.
E-mailed v-performance in regards to the Mikuni HSR dual carb kit and they can ship it out for the first week of December so that is a go.
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Really curious to how the Mikunis work out!
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E-mailed v-performance in regards to the Mikuni HSR dual carb kit and they can ship it out for the first week of December so that is a go.
Several years ago I came across Vintage Performance Developments on several British car forums. The main complaint with the company was the long delivery times to ship their
kit. Some customers had to wait months for delivery. I really hope they've improved their business practices. I would suggest paying by credit card
and make sure the charges are pending until you get delivery. I've heard very good things about the mod itself, looking forward to your experience with the HSRs.
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Any updates on the Mikuni swap?
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No progress on the swap so far. While I was waiting for the Mikunis to arrive (they did) I had the fuel tanks replaced.
Currently I'm in the process of moving where I store the car. Once I get it moved I'll be able to start on the swap and
will likely be on here asking a ton of stupid questions.
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There is a pic of a '74 TCS on the v-performance site with the Mikuni installation showing no secondary intake manifold and not sure if I should do the same. The carb adapters are bolted directly to the cylinder head ports but I don't see a balance pipe
between the Mikunis? Thought that was necessary. I was thinking the secondary intake manifold will act as a balance pipe but I don't know if the added 2" will leave the air filter with enough airflow space. Any thoughts?
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Myself, I'd run them with a balance tube set-up. The best would be the non-emissions type used in the UK. Failing that, use the Federal secondary throttle set-up but remove the secondary butterflies and throttle shafts. Use Devcon to seal up the bypass passages so there are just smooth intakes with the balance passage. The problem with the Federal vision is that the balance tube is low and fuel droplets can pool there.
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PFreen made his own balance tube setup I believe.....maybe he can post a pic.
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Haven't had any luck finding a U.K. spec secondary manifold. Best I found was out of a Lotus Elan Federal spec with the top already sealed with a steel plate and secondary butterflies removed. I ordered it and have it in my possession. The 3 studs that surround
each port on the secondary manifold look like they need cut down to achieve clearance for the Mikunis. I have a pic of the intake below to demonstrate what I'm working with. Ultimately I would prefer to go U.K. spec with a high balance pipe but haven't found one
yet.
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What size Mikuni did you order? V-performance offers three different sizes.
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Mikuni HSR 42
Do I have to hunt down specific gaskets for mounting the secondary intake to the cylinder head ports or will a gasket sealer do the job?
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Let's back-track a bit. Here's the photo from the Vintage Performance site:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-GHFD5R4/0/62a430b2/O/Wood_lotus_DSC00580_edited.jpg)
I can't quite see how they are mounted. It looks like there are rubber spigots but it's not clear how they mount to the manifold. Can you post photos of what they sent?
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These are the two pics from another TCS John sent me.
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I have the same black carb adapters that are shown in the last 3 images. THey are steel plates covered in rubber with 2 holes for mounting to the port or intake. They line up perfectly on the secondary intake manifold that I have set aside.
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So you have the adapter plate that go from three stud on the secondary unit to the four required for the Stromberg carb? And, the rubber spigots will fit the Stromberg bolt pattern?
I'd use the correct gaskets with a smear of fuel safe sealer (hylomar not "silicone").
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Couldn't you mount the secondary manifold upside down since the bolt pattern is square and turn it into a high crossover? The adapters for the Mikunis don't care what position they are in since the rubber mount is round......
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Turboforce I was having the same thought that rotating the secondary manifold 180 degrees would act as a high balance pipe since that what I was trying to use it for.
Jb I only have the stripped down secondary manifold as shown in the picture. When I said lines up perfectly that was being a bit too optimistic, I only meant it looks doable
if I cut the 3 studs down I think I can have it line up as is and still have everything sealed
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This is what I have not including the air filters. I forgot to include them in the pic but have them.
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So you still have to make an adapter to mount carbs to secondary manifold or does the rubber boot line up with two of the bolts from the square bolt pattern? From pics it looks like they line up.....
The studs should come out.....double nut them.
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This is what I'm thinking. I could possibly have bolts run through without much issue and to prevent bowing from occurring when torqueing it down I can fill the void with a steel sleeve/spacer.
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PFreen made his own balance tube setup I believe.....maybe he can post a pic.
I posted before.
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=3793.msg40329#msg40329
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That should work Lumbes. You may want match manifold to rubber boot I.D. So there is no step.
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Interesting. In that case, you only need gaskets between the head and the secondary manifold. The rubber flange is its own gasket, though I would still use a little hylomar. Remove the six studs from the carb end and fit 4 extra-long studs to the head so the secondary manifold is sandwiched by the four studs holding the rubber flanges in place.
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Excellent. Thank you everyone for the help. I'll shoot an e-mail to RDenterprise and ask them if they have gaskets for the head to secondary manifold.
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I would like to match the IDs of the manifold and the rubber boot to avoid the step cause it looks like it would disturb the flow but how is that done? The secondary intake manifold looks like it has some type of brownish/amber sleeve in both openings
with holes cut for the bottom balancing pathways. What is that stuff? Looks like if I removed those "sleeves" from the manifold the boot id and intake id would be much closer to matching. Sorry for all the newbie questions
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You would scribe a line with the rubber boot installed then remove the boot and remove the material out to meet the line, you want this to be tapered so it gradually returns to the original bore size. You could use a grinder and carbide burr or even a half round file. Just go easy, it is easier to remove more material than to add it back!
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Your secondary manifold has been sleeved to seal off all the unwanted passages. Usually your would bore it and fit sleeves that then returned it to standard size. Looks like they didn't bore it first and the added sleeve makes it undersize. The simplest course is to push the sleeve out and fill the unwanted passages with Devcon aluminium putty. You could take it to a machinist and have them push out the old sleeve, bore it and fit a properly sized sleeve. It would be a great repair but not cheap.
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I hand tightened some hardware together to do a quick mock mounting of the setup away from the engine. It is all seeming very possible and I am able to tell what is happening now. When looking from the back of the manifold it appears the pathway follows the
same I.D. until it reaches the carb port where it steps/reduces. I can upload more pics at a later time. Would like to do this as close to correct as possible so going to look for a local machinist being from the sounds of it I'm going to need it.
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So, the rubber adapter is smaller than the secondary manifold?
If so, please disregard my advice, I thought it was the other way. Not 100% ideal but much better than the other way.
In this case, simply build up the ports with 2-part epoxy (JB Weld) and use sandpaper/dremel to make a smooth transition from the adapter to about half-way along the secondary manifold.
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Same here.....going from the carb to a bigger ID is better than the opposite situation.
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Gaskets from rdent should be in tomorrow and will be working on building up and tapering the ports tonight. If all goes well I'll be putting the Mikunis on tomorrow
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Excellent!
I should ditch my Dells and fit four Mikunis to my crossflow!
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Still waiting on the gaskets from rdent. They shipped them out immediately but UPS keeps running into adverse weather so relocating it to a UPS store for pick up.
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Nearly ready to turn the engine over for a test. Have a question on a vacuum line or something. It was connected to the down draft webers that were on the car and ran down towards the bottom end of the engine attaching to some top looking like part. Should
I be connecting that line to the Mikunis?
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Your dizzy has a vacuum advance or retard mechanism so you hook the hose from the “top looking like part” to a vacuum source (i.e. intake manifold).
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Thank you for the reply. Found a vacuum on the Mikunis and attached it to that. It is the line looping and connecting by the top of the carb closest to the front of the car.
I don't know how it will run but aside from the taped on throttle mount it is looking nice. Working on a solution for that but that's where I'm at pre start. Secondary intake manifold fits nice upside down so will see how it works as a high balance pipe now.
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Any reason you are running the throttle cable on top and not through the throttle cable hole that is already built in the manifold?
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This might be useful:
http://www.mikuni.com/pdf/hsr_tuning_manual050102.pdf
Make sure the "purge" fitting is plugged. No TC came with a vacuum advance unit, they were all vacuum retard for emissions. Remove the hose and plug the fitting on both carbs.
Hook the engine breather to one of the air filters. You can drill a hole in the side closest to the inner fender. As long as you engine is not worn out and smoky, it will run better that way (slight vacuum in the crankcase).
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I turned the intake manifold upside being it was a federal low balance pipe type. Didn't want that collecting fuel. All the other passage ways were sealed off along with the top with a plate. Turning it upside down changes the angle of the hole. Still could be used if i
redrill the hole though. Might be as simple as that.
Was looking of reducing the breather tube length I have. It used to wrap the whole way around to the carb further away on the webers. I'm considering in going in with the closer air cleaner for that route.
Thank you jbcollier for the clarification on that vacuum line for the emissions coming from the engine. Wasn't sure what to do with it. I'll remove that and plug both fittings on the carbs. Both "purge" fittings are plugged. Engine runs pretty clean so that should be
a option for me.
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I'm calling it a night though. Pretty tired and didn't even realize I already started repeating myself. Ha oh man I'll try again tomorrow. thank you for all the help everyone.
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The secondary manifold looks way better upside-down, functions better as well. I agree a more aesthetically pleasing method of securing the throttle cable would be nice. It's early testing days though. That can be changed later.
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Started the engine last night. Without even adjusting the carbs from how they were sent they brought the engine to life once fuel got to them. Took a couple key cranks but nothing excessive. I then set the idle which wasn't far off and adjusted the
accelerator pumps to eliminate the delay when getting on the gas pedal from an idle. Used a carb sync and it is looking nice and even. Engine is running smooth and is responsive. It sounds like a great improvement compared to the downdraft weber
setup that was on it. Won't know the whole story until I get it on the road but with how it is responding in the garage I can assume it is going to be great.
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Looking forward to your road test review!!
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Excellent news!
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Great to hear! Looking forward to a road test report.
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With weather at the low 50's today and relatively dry roads I was able to put the new carbs to the test and couldn't be happier with the results.
The difference in the drivability is night and day and the engine now surges into power at any point in the rev range with zero hesitation. It is quite fantastic and i wore a grin on my face for the entirety of the drive.
I have no issues or complaints with the Mikunis so far. They were incredibly easy to install, tune and the engine now has the agility to match the rest of the car.
This community is awesome and thanks to all for the help. I
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Congratulations!! :beerchug:
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:beerchug:
I would check the air/fuel ratio to be sure. If you have a local shop with a dyno, get them to check it. Otherwise, you can weld a bung in your exhaust and use a wide-band 02 sensor and an A/F-R gauge to check it. If you go the latter route, I can advise on what to look for. Lots of info on the web as well.
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Awesome!
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BTW...
CURSE YOU!
I'm now seriously thinking of doing this to my crossflow.
;-)
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Thank you jb for the suggestion. I will start reading up on some gauges and add up the cost of what it will be to run the test myself. If it's not absurd I'll go the latter route.
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I use one of these:
https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm2.php
Works very well.
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I use this one. https://www.amazon.com/AEM-30-4110-UEGO-Ratio-Gauge/dp/B00N3VGPYS.
It has been working great for a couple of years.
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The LM-2 complete kit looks like a real nice tool with data logging capabilities and more. Finding lower prices from different sources so it is tempting. Seeing it is powered with a cigarette lighter plug...would using a battery booster/pack with a cigarette lighter plug
adapter or receiver be a suitable work around solution being the Europa does not have a cigarette lighter? Just a thought. I could be missing something completely obvious as well. Thinking it over and will likely decide on something soon. March won't last forever
and am eager to put some miles on with assurance when the weather breaks.
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I use mine on all sorts of vehicles and made a up power cord with alligator clips. Works well. I have also carried a battery to power it on magneto powered bikes.
Confession time. The S1 does come with a cigarette lighter. Didn't realize that the S2 and TCs didn't.
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Cigarette lighter might have been an option, my Special has one to go with the ashtray.....
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The LM-2 kit should arrive by the 11th. Exciting stuff knowing I should be able to dial it in to perfection.
My TCS has the optional radio fitted but yeah no cigarette lighter to accompany the ashtray.
SilverBeast - Not that I plan to install one but just curious in where the placement is in your Special.
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Just to the left of the radio. It's a 74 UK specification - I don't think the UK was quite so bothered about health implications - it also has single circuit brakes, no hazard warning lights or seat belt warnings!
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Setting up the carbs has taken longer than expected. Biggest hang up was at WOT with it initially being way rich reaching high 8's. The main jets shipped with the carbs were just too big for the fed spec twin cam but still ran better than the previous weber setup. Currently at idle it's sitting around 14.7 and while cruising it sits in the 13's. At 1/2 to 3/4 its about 12.5 and WOT low 11's. It's close to being right or at least I think. Definitely have the hang of changing out the needles and main jets. Can do the job in minutes at this point and am considering in taking it to a dyno for a starting reference. Unfortunately that is to wait being after my most recent drive I inspected the car and went to check lug nut torques. Set a torque wrench to 40 ft lbs and went around the car to have the suspect one sheer off with little torque applied. How far do I have to disassemble the rear drum to replace the hub studs? The wheels are Panasport extra lightweight 5 1/2jj x 13. I feel like it's a good time to replace the studs all around and ordered 16 and one nut replacement from RD ent. Made it as far as lifting the rear of the car, setting jacks, wheel removal and realizing I will have to drill out the split pin holding the e brake cable to the drum assembly before going further. Reading through the workshop manual and took note of it specifying using a hub extractor during disassembly of the hub and a special loctite being used during reassembly. My hope was that I wouldn't have to go that far and just remove the brake drum cover giving me enough clearance to knock out the old ones. The studs look short so a chance I could slide them in then seat them with some washers and a lug nut. If not I'll look to order that loctite and know it's going to be a bit more than just freeing the drum covers on the rear.
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I've been told (on here) that you can remove/fit the studs without removing the hub, and having removed the drums on mine recently, there does look to be enough room.
In theory you may not need to disconnect handbrake cable as it should just be set to be NOT moving the pad it applies when fully off. As you have a Special you will have the auto-adjusters (like me) so dont have an option to back off the pads any further - until the drum is off!
There is a thread here on adjusting rear brakes on TCS http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1433.0 (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1433.0)
I haven't updated it with the pictures after I swapped my adjusters round. It might be useful to check yours when you remove your drum and update it with your setup, as I haven't confirmed that mine operate correctly yet.
I had to use a 3 arm puller on the drum on one side in order to get the drum off!
Mine are back together, but I still need to do many other things before I can finish adjusting brakes and get it back on the road.
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Your correct in not needing to or at least I didn't need to disconnect the handbrake cables. The drum wasn't overly difficult to remove with a few taps from a rubber mallet it broke free and I pulled it off. Stud replacement at that stage of disassembly is doable so luckily I have the stud replaced and the roadwheel back on the car with it back on the ground. Just 15 more to go but honestly might wait till this winter for that task.
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I have a Mikuni carb conversion kit on order, hope it arrives soon. Looking forward to swapping out my Strombergs. Any tips you guys have would be appreciated.
I also have a 74 TCS
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I have a Mikuni carb conversion kit on order, hope it arrives soon. Looking forward to swapping out my Strombergs. Any tips you guys have would be appreciated.
LotusBob74, I'm very interested in that Mikuni conversion. Please give us all of the details. I know at least one other lister has done that, and several have been interested over the years.
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Looking into replacing the original Lucas 25D distributor. Feeling like more can be gained with a better ignition curve. I've tuned the Mikunis to operate around the 12.5 afr throughout the rev range but power seems to drop off after the midrange. Any suggestions?
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Ignition 123+ tune allows you to adjust the advance curve with a phone or tablet through bluetooth.
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Thank you JB. I like the idea of a custom advance curve. Going through the Miles Wilkins book I was curious on which distributor would be ideal for a Big Valve with a Stromberg head and Mikuni carburetors. Domestic Strombergs run with a maxium advance of 33 degrees to overcome the deficiencies of the carburetor so was assuming less advance than that would be desired on my setup. Current distributor max advance of 19 degrees at 5k rpms. Can only see compromises being made with adjusting and should be replaced rather than tweaked. Custom advance curve should be between a distributor 41189 Big Valve and 40953 Stromberg? (looking at page 169 in the book) I'm still uncertain of which advance curve to mimic and adjust from but will continue to dig into it.
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Mikunis breath very well. Strombergs? Not so much. I would start with the 41189 curve.
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That makes sense. It should be similar to the weber big valve only difference is I have the C cam instead of the D cam and the Fed exhaust manifold.
https://123ignitionusa.com/kent-engine-naturally-aspirated-bluetooth-programmable-w-angled-cap/ - is this the right fit?
Not able to view the installation link on the site that pertains to that specific distributor but the wire diagram that is shown looks straightforward.
I've never done any distributor work but reading up on it I think it won't be a problem. Been doing tappet clearances on my bike so finding tdc and compression stroke I'm familiar enough with. The rest will be a new territory.
Will the original tachometer be "plug and play" or will I be needing to do a tach conversion to electric? That would be sad as I like the original tach and have been surprised at the smoothness and response in relation to engine revs. Sure it's not perfect and modern vehicles are smoother in comparison but it's not bad at all. Can't say how accurate it is other than it idles around 800 rpms and ive reached 7k a few times. I try to shift no later than 6500rpms to keep it whole.
I dream of an engine rebuild in the near future and want to find a great lotus twin cam shop to do the work. Not sure how far out from local I will have to go or if I'll need to ship the engine. That's a bridge to be crossed at a later date though. Second summer of ownership is approaching and one year since I took over the entirety of the maintenance it has proven to be very reliable and was excellent on a little 200 mile road trip 2 weeks ago.
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lower compression 9.5 rather than 10.3 is another difference. That is why a custom ignition curve could be good or at least that is how I am looking at it. Lastly if engine work is done then yeah I will need a new ignition curve.
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Took out the old distributor last night and in place installed the 123 ignition plus. Programmable with my phone it all connects and I created a ignition curve then loaded it onto the dizzy...it wont run. I know I'm making a beginner's mistake(s) just not sure what they are.
First I put the engine in static timing. Found the compression stroke by putting the car in 5th gear and pushing it in my garage. Felt and heard air on spark plug hole #1 (closest to the firewall) with a finger as a plug then watched for TDC mark in the small cutout on the crank case then backed off 10 degrees. Popped off the dizzy's cap and the rotor arm was pointing to the number 1 spark plug lead. Labeled distributor leads and looked up firing order and everything seemed to make sense. Rotor on dizzy rotates counter clockwise starting at 1-3-4-2. The new dizzy looked like the same layout so lubed the o-ring with a little oil and pushed it into place. Next wired 2 of the 3 wires. Blue to chassis ground and red to positive side of coil (Lucas Sport dlb105) then the instructions state to rotate the dizzy until the led under the rotor arm lights up through 1 of 4 holes. Did that and locked it down. Rotor arm was lined up with number 1 spark on the cap. The cap needed to be wrestled into place after the leads were installed. Tight fit and initially was thinking the cap's lead nipples might need shortened/sanded down but it squeezed in. Hooked up the last wire from dizzy which was a black and went to the negative side of the coil. Plugged in coil lead and spark plug leads so wiring and physical installation was complete just time to create and load a map. I did that and the car does not start. Heard it backfire twice but did not come close to starting or holding idle.
This is the map I loaded. Thought it would be close enough to run so any insight or tips would be great.
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I don't know anything about the 123 dizzy but here are some things you can check.
First, the TC static timing spec is 5° BTDC not 10 but that's not likely your problem.
Take all the plugs out and one at a time put a plug in the wire that you expect to be the next to fire given your firing order and with the ignition on, roll the car through the place in the engine rotation where the plug should fire. I think you know what I'm saying here even though I'm doing a poor job explaining. Your plugs should confirm that your plug wires are in the correct place in the cap so your firing order is correct or that you made a mistake. Of course you'll also be confirming that the plugs are actually firing. A side note here is that way back when I learned to statically time an engine I used a test light between the + terminal on the coil and ground. Using a spark plug give you more direct feedback so if you were using a test light and it's lighting when you time it, it might possibly be that the electronics in the dizzy are not firing your plug. (remember, I don't know anything about the 123 dizzy).
If your plugs are firing when you expect them to, you have gas, air, and your timing is at least close, you ought to get something going with the engine.
One thing you want to be aware off is if the 123 is protected from leaving your ignition on for an extended period of time so if you have to, you can keep your ignition on for a minimum amount of time.
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Thank you BDA I am following your explanation and will be using your steps to confirm the installation. Expecting a long night but if I can make a few confirmations that will be progress.
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Pull the coil wire from the distributor cap. Hold it a 1/2” from the valve cover. Crank the engine. Got spark? Since you are back firing a bit, the answer is probably yes.
Then remove #1 plug and put the car in fourth gear. Hold a finger on the open spark plug hole as you nudge the car forward. Stop when it builds pressure. Watch the timing marks and slowly continue nudging it until it is at TDC. Remove the distributor cap. Is the rotor pointing at the wire going to cylinder #1?
Nudge the car forward again and note the direction the rotor moves. Now check that your wires are properly ordered in the cap (rotor rotation is noted incorrectly in the manual).
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Success. Engine is running well and holding idle. I let it warm up for a bit a revved to 3k in neutral (big wind gusts tonight going to have to wait till tomorrow for a test drive) no popping or apparent missing. I believe I made a couple mistakes successively during my first attempt. The distributor body orientation was forcing the cap to sit unevenly. Confirmed that when I pulled the cap and saw gouge marks from the rotor arm contact. Nothing but superficial damage to the interior of the cap. Had to pull the distributor multiple times and reinsert with the rotor arm in various positions to find the right orientation for given clearances. Found a position that will let me advance and retard the body so many degrees before jamming up on the intake ports. Once that was squared up I was able to check for the spark sequence all looked okay then tried the key. Engine was much closer to wanting to start and idle. Rotated the dizzy's body a little bit and it started right up.
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It's past 4am so calling it an evening and will see what progress can be had tomorrow with finer tunings. Really liking the bluetooth features. Nice program with a couple bells attached to make for a great kit so far. Thank you jb and BDA for imparting highly useful troubleshooting techniques. My Lotus relationship could not survive without the members of this forum so I am highly grateful to every person who frequents and chimes in.
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:beerchug: 😴
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Awesome perseverance!
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4am!!! That's motivation! Congratulations! :beerchug:
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With the new dizzy the Lotus runs better than and I'm ready to move forward a couple steps. Found a mechanic that will be able to send the engine head off to be checked for cracks warpage etc. Looking to rebuild the top half with 10.5 cr pistons and hotter street cams overall outcome 145-150 hp if all goes well. Ready to ditch the stock fed rusted exhaust system for something better flowing. The Banks TC race exhaust is very tempting to me but am concerned in clearance issues when installing it in my car. I've seen a few examples of the Banks race exhaust installed in TCS with a muffler/silencer for street use and would be interested in that setup. All examples I've seen are without the brake boosters but my car still has the boosters. I can't tell through images if the boosters need to be removed to accommodate a Banks race exhaust. Anyone have experience with this or able to give an answer to if the boosters need to go? Thank you.
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Went with the exhaust system from rd enterprises. The 47 exhaust system is very cool but I'm not at that point yet. They said it is good for 150hp then had it ceramic coated once it arrived. I removed the old cast and exhaust in pieces then replaced all the manifold studs along with new gaskets. Bolted everything up with new manifold nuts and it seems like the exhaust elbow pipe will not fully seat into the headers. Well it goes in 11/2 inches but is about one exhaust width from lining up with the muffler when bolted up against the transmission. I'm assuming it seats further then lines up reasonably with the muffler I just can't get it to go any further and am contemplating in cutting a little length off the elbow pipe so it can line up with the muffler. 1 1/2 inches is not much contact area but with the better style clamps it is probably sufficient? Any input would be welcomed as I'm trying to put it back on the road sensibly
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Went with the exhaust system from rd enterprises. The 47 exhaust system is very cool but I'm not at that point yet. They said it is good for 150hp then had it ceramic coated once it arrived. I removed the old cast and exhaust in pieces then replaced all the manifold studs along with new gaskets. Bolted everything up with new manifold nuts and it seems like the exhaust elbow pipe will not fully seat into the headers. Well it goes in 11/2 inches but is about one exhaust width from lining up with the muffler when bolted up against the transmission. I'm assuming it seats further then lines up reasonably with the muffler I just can't get it to go any further and am contemplating in cutting a little length off the elbow pipe so it can line up with the muffler. 1 1/2 inches is not much contact area but with the better style clamps it is probably sufficient? Any input would be welcomed as I'm trying to put it back on the road sensibly
The cross pipe is supplied a bit long, I had to cut mine down a bit to get things to line up and slip together nicely. While the band clamps Ray sells are a step up from u-bolts, I used lap joint clamps (from the UK, but they came in less than a week... https://www.profusionexhausts.com/1-75-inch-45mm-stainless-steel-lap-joint-clamp-heavy-duty-exhaust-band-lp175ss/ ... no financial intereest, yadda yadda yadda) which really are the hot ticket. Even though it wasn't really needed, I put a little exhaust pipe compound around the smaller pipe when I slid it in before clamping down. Really makes a good joint, doesn't deform the pipe the same way a u-bolt would and has a lot more clamping power over a larger surface area than the single band clamp does. All in all...a great solution (IMHO).
Check the clearance between the forward shift tube and the header. Mine needed a bit of "percussive maintenance" to provide the requisite clearance that I was comfortable with and didn't interfere with the shift mechanism. I also ended up with adjusting the center pivot to 2 7/8" center to center versus the book 2 3/4" just to give me a bit more...and all gears are there, and shift works fine.
And check to see if your rear clutch cable sheath ends on a frame-mounted bracket. You may want to consider installing the engine-mounted clutch cable (oh heck, just ask Ray!) bracket after chopping off the frame bracket for the cable. Smoother clutch action, eliminates juddering (so far, for me anyway), and feels like it lowers the stiction/friction in the cable (since there are gentler bends in the cover to get the cable to where it needs to be). Every little bit helps.
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:Welcome:
Lumbes
Our tc and tcs experts ,as you can see are happy to find a solution to your concern.
We love pictures. Is your car on the registry? New or old hoarder?LOL
Dakazman
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Thank you Bryan that was exactly what I was wondering about. I figured someone from here had the RD exhaust system and would recall if cutting was necessary. I cut off some length on the elbow pipe and fit it all together. Not kidding about the exhaust clamps on the link above. Those look amazing and will be ordering some tonight. Haven't taken it out for a test ride but clearances are tight with the shift tube and headers. I'll likely follow your lead and thread the shift pivot bolt out some. Not touching but will see if the same percussive maintenance on the headers will be needed as well. Also noticed that the clutch cable is in fact mounted to the engine block so I am lucky the PO had that taken care of. I am noticing the clutch cable is now being slightly pushed out by the new headers but am thinking the mounting plate that is attached to the block can just be tweaked to give the cable enough space.
Dakazman - I checked the registry and did not find my Europa. I will have to add it. Acquiring the Europa happened 2 years ago next month and it was purchased from Bring a trailer. I've added 5k miles since ownership and am absolutely hooked. The incredibly knowledgeable and friendly members of this forum are all godsends in my book. Many many thanks to them. Just the other week my computer went down (needs a new motherboard) so am currently using my phone. Having issues shrinking the photos small enough to upload through my phone. Wasn't an issue when working from the computer. I will work towards uploading pictures referencing the car in a new thread to share with the community.
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Oh well I'm close to losing my mind. Replacing the parking brake drum cables. Took out the horseshoe uncrimped the ends put the horseshoe back in, put in the new drum cables by sliding through the slot in the chassis and fitted to horseshoe then zip tied the horseshoe. Threaded on both 1/2 inch nuts and just failing miserably at reattaching the spring that is connected to the end of the tunnel. Just not seeing how this part is suppose to be done. Everything else was relatively easy and spent a chunk of time looking at methods on this forum but chances are I'm missing something obvious. The car is lifted by a floor jack with minimal clearance underneath. I'm able to crawl under and fit the new cable through the slot but beyond that I can't see myself being able to do anything else from that position. I'm barely able to see where the spring attaches to the chassis and I think if i removed it from there that I would not be able to reattach it. On a lift I could see me undoing the spring from underneath then reattaching the spring when it is free to the bolt that runs through the horseshoe. Then possibly tying a string to the end that attaches to the chassis and fish it through the hole it clips onto and pull it on home.
I just tried from in the tunnel looping a string around the spring front hook where it attaches to the rod and fished the string behind the horseshoe so pulling it would bring the string right in line with the rod but could not for the life of me handle that spring into the rod hole. Any advice would be so appreciated. I don't think I can find any peace until I attach this spring.
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I haven't done this but what about releasing the handbrake cable from the forward reaction lever first? That should release all tension from the horseshoe arrangement.
Obviously tie a cord to the front end eye so it doesn't disappear into the tunnel.
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Your saying be releasing that I can bring the rod and shoe in closer to the spring? I'll look for that connection point and access. Thanks for the input.
Current stage with the new cable and shoe fitted to the rod and the spring just barely visible
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Yes, that's what I mean.
This would probably mean releasing the bolt on the reaction lever because it's quite difficult to get that elongated cable loop over the lever's hook.
It's then possible to wrangle the reaction lever back into place to replace the bolt. I've done that in the past and was probably tackling the same issue.
For what it's worth, I used a single Nyloc nut instead of the two half-nuts which makes it easier to adjust down the line.
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Can't thank you enough. That was precisely what I was missing. I removed said bolt shifted the whole assembly forward and attached the once before impossible spring. It's all put back together and the parking brake is now locking up both rear wheels!
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Great – glad it worked out.
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I've been going through the workshop manual in preparation of well just about everything and as excited as I am to put more attention towards the engine all the front bushes in the suspension need replaced. They are all cracked and likely the original set so replacement is certainly overdue. Decided to stick with original style rubber bushes and replace the original shocks and coils with new Spax shocks with the reduced height coils. I'll be using a spring compressor to fit the new coils but asking ahead of time to those who have done this, anything in particular that I should pay attention to or look out for that is not mentioned in the manual? Or possibly an installation conflict that arises from switching to the adjustable Spax? Going to jack up the front of the car tonight and spray pb blaster on every nut and bolt that will be undone so just beginning the front suspension journey. Thanks
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It’s in the manual but a reminder: tighten suspension pivot nuts at ride height.
A simple spring compressor can be made out of a 1/2” rod about 3 1/2” long with 5/16” holes drilled near neither end. The rod goes through the bottom bush of the shock. Then use j-bolts hooked on the coils through the holes and tightened with nuts and washers to compress the spring. Here’s a brief write up on it with pictures as well as an alternative: http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=5298.0
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Support the car properly on jack stands.
Remember that Europas are very light up front. This makes it far too easy to knock the car off the jack stands so BE CAREFUL when prying, pushing or pulling on things.
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Support the car properly on jack stands.
Remember that Europas are very light up front. This makes it far too easy to knock the car off the jack stands so BE CAREFUL when prying, pushing or pulling on things.
Noted that lightness issue the first time I did work on 444R back in the day...stacked (IIRC) 5 bags of 40 lb mulch (I was also doing some yard work) in the front compartment to add weight on the stands. Nothing moved. Used the same trick when I was reassembling the frame for 693R back in '07: stacked bags of mulch on the frame until the distance to the ground from the bottom of the front box was as specified (6" IIRC...it was 15 years ago...) and tightened to torque spec. Also made it a lot easier to set the toe. Never had a handling problem, and when I set the body on, the measurement to the top of the wheel arches was within an eighth of an inch. Guess it worked out ok.
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Appreciate the advice on making sure the car is well supported. Using a low profile floor jack with a board to distribute the weight along with 13 ton plastic vehicle ramps all placed by the front T section. I started breaking down the left suspension and have nearly almost all of it removed on that side however progress has stopped. The top wishbone pivot bolt that is to be driven through the rubber plug hole in the chassis will not slide. It spins as I can rotate it but will not travel in or out. One half of the top wishbone is still connected to the right side as I have only been able to undo the left nut on said pin. Any insight / last measure efforts? Thinking heat is not much of an option with it being so close to the fiberglass body. Thank you.
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Reading related threads and posts on this forum the wording from Bryan Boyle stating "loosen the bolt. Pull back, and catch the bits as the bolt comes back." The pull back part took me by surprise as I have been trying to no avail tap it out with a rubber mallet from within the footwell at terrible angles with the nut covering the end of the threads. I'm going to try to grab onto from inside the car and see if I too can pull back.
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I reckon what often happens is that the car has, at some stage, dropped a wheel into a pot hole, bottomed out the suspension and slightly bent the top pin. Nothing is noticed until you want to extract the pin.
Your pin looks to be in pretty good shape and given you can rotate it, even better.
Don't have a good answer but I'd try a BF lever between the rear wishbone and the chassis while turning the pin.
A rubber mallet is too soft.
Try a nylon mallet or a steel hammer after moving the nut up to the end so as not to damage the thread. You may get lucky.
These pins are a bit like door hinge pins, I reckon.
We've all seen umpteen threads where people diligently try the good ideas and finally concede defeat and employ a zip disk on an angry grinder.
Way back in the dim dark ages, I recall someone found a suitable length bolt from a Caterpillar tractor of all things – cheap enough, too.
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Bolt rotating is a good start. Is there a metal sleeve round the bush in the top of the shock? (I don't know) If there is it may have rusted to bolt? If you are replacing shocks (I haven't re read thread to see if you have said) then you could possibly cut/grind the shock top apart and grind the sleeve off.
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Another thought. Is it possible to attach a slide hammer through the access hole in the passenger compartment?
All theoretical, I've not done this myself (and never used a slide hammer!)
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I made minimal progress with using prybars and tools in a prying application while rotating and then while hammering etc. Possibly 3/16 of an inch of travel. Not considering it a victory and starting to enjoy the thought of using the nice suggestions from here and cutting it out. Replacing the shocks and coils with new so cutting at said places for a worst case seems viable. I'll send an e-mail to Ray at RD and ask about buying a replacement pin. Really liking the slide hammer idea too. Maybe I can get my hands on one before taking a cutting wheel to the pin and spacers. Always wanting to do the least amount of destruction and usually it is a last resort. I've been soaking it with PB and clamping onto the washers while rotating the pin. Current plan is to struggle a bit more then inevitably carefully cut it out.
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With stubbornness I drove it out. The pin looks like it has a bend in it so certainly will be replacing it. Doesn't show clearly in the picture but handling the pin it is not straight. With any luck I can put this side back together over the weekend. Wishbones are a bit rough looking so asking ray for some pricing on a new set.
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underside of wishbones
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With stubbornness I drove it out. The pin looks like it has a bend in it so certainly will be replacing it. Doesn't show clearly in the picture but handling the pin it is not straight. With any luck I can put this side back together over the weekend. Wishbones are a bit rough looking so asking ray for some pricing on a new set.
Those wishbones are not rough; nothing that a little hammer and dolly work wouldn't straighten without changing the dimensions. I've seen worse. (if you don't want them...I know a good home that will take care of them..;))
How many pickle forks did you need? lol. Glad it worked out for you.
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Ray said he is out of lower wishbones but should be getting some in stock in around 2-3 weeks. I started cleaning them up as you can see the one side is down to bare metal or close. They look sturdy and think I can straighten out the dings and repaint. Especially with the vote of confidence saying they look good enough for love. Haha the pickle forks, well I used them to what end I don't know. Right angle plyers gave me nice leverage while I hammered away. Once I got some lateral movement I resoaked then hammered the progress away by intentionally driving it back to its original position. Repeat the process which gave results until I had nothing left to hit as the pin receded into the spacers within the chassis. From there used a tie rod end removal tool to push it further in until using deepwell sockets as punches and so on.
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Ray said he is out of lower wishbones but should be getting some in stock in around 2-3 weeks. I started cleaning them up as you can see the one side is down to bare metal or close. They look sturdy and think I can straighten out the dings and repaint. Especially with the vote of confidence saying they look good enough for love. Haha the pickle forks, well I used them to what end I don't know. Right angle plyers gave me nice leverage while I hammered away. Once I got some lateral movement I resoaked then hammered the progress away by intentionally driving it back to its original position. Repeat the process which gave results until I had nothing left to hit as the pin receded into the spacers within the chassis. From there used a tie rod end removal tool to push it further in until using deepwell sockets as punches and so on.
Welcome to the percussive maintenance end of Lotus ownership. Really glad it all worked out for you. Sometimes, it takes some huffing and puffing to persuade it to move. when it all goes back together...a light coat of anti-seize on the shaft would not be the worst thing you can do...
Remember when you do get it all back together...the torque is set with the car on its wheels and the suspension in its normal running position. That's where a long extension to come in from the footwell and a ring spanner on the front nut that locks up against the body as you tighten from inside the car is a plus.
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It's going well enough considering what I had to do to the grease cap. Will be ordering a new one of those. Been stripping everything down and repainting. Forgot to initially order the smaller upper bushes for the drop links so aside from those I've replaced all the bushes and have been assembling the front suspension and breaking down the hub to clean things up and replace the bearings. Question before I finalize my order to RD again (they have to be thrilled having me as a customer) does this axle seem to be in a usable condition? I've cleaned off the grease but that is it and thought the uneven roughness, pitting and gouges in areas is bad news. I should probably as in definitely order a new axle, right?
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It's going well enough considering what I had to do to the grease cap. Will be ordering a new one of those. Been stripping everything down and repainting. Forgot to initially order the smaller upper bushes for the drop links so aside from those I've replaced all the bushes and have been assembling the front suspension and breaking down the hub to clean things up and replace the bearings. Question before I finalize my order to RD again (they have to be thrilled having me as a customer) does this axle seem to be in a usable condition? I've cleaned off the grease but that is it and thought the uneven roughness, pitting and gouges in areas is bad news. I should probably as in definitely order a new axle, right?
They all look like that that I've seen. They took a rough casting and milled what they have to. What counts is where the bearings sit, not what it looks like in between.
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Uprights bend easily. After it is all assembled, get a full wheel alignment and check the KPI. If it is off, your uprights are bent. Mine were.
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As Bryan said, there’s no reason to suspect a problem with your stub axles. That’s what the generally look like. JB is also correct about the uprights. Un unfortunately, there is no practical (for most of us garage wrenches) way to measure them before putting them on the car.
They seem to have designed a grease cap that is impossible to take off without destroying it, but you can foil their evil plans. You can screw a sheet metal screw into the hole that bites into the cap. It needs to be long enough so that when the screw reaches the stub axle, it will pull the cap off. I tacked 10-32 nuts in my caps for that purpose.
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Excellent. Thank you.
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Uprights bend easily. After it is all assembled, get a full wheel alignment and check the KPI. If it is off, your uprights are bent. Mine were.
I had made a metal gauge to check uprights off the car...have to look and see if I can find it. Been almost a decade and a half since I needed it. Luckily, they parts, if you need them, are available from not only the usual suspects over this side, but Moss (under the GT6 heading). (Too bad they didn't use more of the suspension bits, like the arms, from the GT6).
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I’d be interested in that gauge, Bryan - either in how to make one or possibly buying one, but certainly to see what it looks like.
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Rebuilt the hub fully then started assembly. Nothing is torqued just tightened up enough to keep stuff from sliding around on the threads as I play around. Two questions, first being the anti roll bar to shock mounts. How difficult is it to reattach? I stuck the side with the new shock then went to attach the other side to the original and there is a few inches of space between the two. Too far to comfortably wrestle it over the shock stud. Maybe I bent the anti roll bar when fighting the drop links on to it? Second question, the hub grease cap. Should I fill that with grease as well? I packed the hub, not fully leaving room for expansion but was wondering if the hub grease cap should be left empty or filled?
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The expression is "pack your hubs with grease" but you don't actually do that. You pack the bearings. Put a good sized dollop of grease into the palm of your hand and press the side of the bearing into it, forcing the grease into the bearing and out the other side. Keep rotating the bearing until it is fully "packed".
https://knowhow.napaonline.com/dirty-jobs-pack-wheel-bearing/
Coat the inside of the hub and cap with grease to prevent rust.
Packing more grease than that into the hub does nothing but make a mess. It will not later flow into the bearings.
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From what I know the anti roll bar difficulty is normal. I attach a ratchet strap to one end of the bar to "persuade" it into place. Works well after you get the hang of it.
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I have found that there is a suspension position where the roll bar attaches more easily. IIRC, it is closer to ride height. I also found it easier to do both ends at the same time. I might have even put the car on the floor to attach both sides. Sorry I don’t remember any more details than that. I think if you fiddle with it, you’ll figure it out.
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Appreciate all the feedback. Thank you JB for watching out for the Lotus, I did pack the bearings in just the manner you explained. I then put grease in the hub, roughly the same amount that was in it. I will coat the cap with sum grease to prevent rust and install the cap tonight. Will be trying the roll bar to shock mounts tonight too. Thank you cazman for the suggestion I have plenty of ratchet straps that are suitable for the task and BDA I was thinking it looked like it would line up better with the car lowered. Thinking it will go well enough. Really, it doesn't need to go on tonight as I plan rebuild the front right suspension and hub in a few days from now. Just wanted to demonstrate the process to make sure I knew how to do it and that I didn't put something on incorrectly.
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I concur with BDA…..it will line up with the suspension compressed. I used my floor jacks to compress each side and it will line up. :beerchug:
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If in need of a new top wishbone pivot bolt, try Mc MasterCarr. They have grade bolts that will do the job.
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The upper a-arm pivot is a pin, not a bolt. It is threaded at the ends with one end having its nut welded on but there is no load bearing on threaded surfaces. This is very important. Do not use threaded rod, no matter its grade!
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1/2” pin with welded nuts. Long bolt with formed head. Same difference. Get a long bolt ,no major bearing on the threads goes without saying.
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Yup, I know you know, just want to make sure other people don't wing it.
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Are you aware about the issue of "too thick felt grease seals" on the inside of the front axle? Just FYI-ing you.
Some discussion here: http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=5375.msg57856#msg57856 (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=5375.msg57856#msg57856)
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It's been a little while since my last post but to update I finished with the front suspension rebuild. Went with the shortened uprated coils and adjustable spax from rdent for all 4 corners. Didn't exactly dial in the ride before winter hit but I feel like it was in the ballpark for the street. Scheduled with a shop to have the engine pulled and for the head to be rebuilt along with anything else that is deserving of attention. The shop pulled the engine and towed the car back to me. So far I've replaced the transmission mounts, the radius arm bushes, and removed the transmission to clean and reseal. Tomorrow I will be pulling the old coolant pipes and replacing with stainless steel pipes from rdent but noticed something tonight when replacing the engine mounts. Looks like the heavy duty replacements from rdent sit roughly half an inch higher than the originals. Has anyone else encountered this when replacing their engine mounts? Is this acceptable? Before blindly bolting on the new ones I took a picture of the original mount and the new mount with the holes lined up showing the new mount sits higher.
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I surely hope your shop has experience with Lotus Twinks, otherwise you may be in for a really bad experience.
ask me how i know....
Jerry Rude
4005R
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Your old mount looks pretty tired. It could easily have dropped some of that distance. I wouldn’t worry about it.
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Before scheduling the work on the engine with them I made sure to ask if they have experience with lotus twin cams. They said they do but still keeping my fingers crossed that all goes well on their end. I'm aiming to be finished with everything on my end in two weeks so with some luck the car will be fully assembled soon after.
Thank you JB for putting your sights on the engine mount pic. If you wouldn't worry about it then I will move on. Much to do.
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Those are two different engine mounts and they're different heights as you've observed.
The one on the right is an S2 mount.
I 'believe' the one on the left might be a TC mount but the TC/TCS guys will know better and correct me if I'm wrong.
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Here's a link to the engine mount differences, Lotus used the same style of mount for Elans, Plus 2s, and Europas:
https://lotusmarques.com/info/technical/32-lotus-elan/770-lotus-elan-engine-mount-installation (https://lotusmarques.com/info/technical/32-lotus-elan/770-lotus-elan-engine-mount-installation)
There are some good photo's in the link to show the differences.
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First two pics pilfered from Banks / Europa Engineering / Lotus Supplies web site.
The pic with the blue/green background is for an S2. – X026E6011
The pic with the faun background is for an TC. – A074E0549
Last pic is the instructions from Lotus Marques and would appear to be in agreement?
Same story from PNM parts in the UK?
https://www.pnmparts.co.uk/lotus-engine-mounting-6011
https://www.pnmparts.co.uk/lotus-engine-mounting-0549
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Cross referencing rdents pictures and description on their website the original mount would be an S2 and the replacement is for TC/TCS like GavinT mentioned. I was certain I ordered the right mounts and with double checking I don't believe I made a mistake. Wondering why my TCS and TurboFource's TCS came orignially with S2 mounts for a twin cam engine? Maybe stromberg engine's used S2 mounts and webers used the TC ones?
Opening the link RoddyMac posted shows the elan would use different mounts and mix match them according to the make of carbs fitted. Perhaps the Europa section is a little light and not as detailed/missing some information. Not sure if I want to return the new mounts for S2 mounts or not. I'll likely hold off for a few days and see if any more TC owners chime in.
Old coolant tubes came out last night and the new SS ones are in along with fresh grommets. Going to clean up and repaint the closing plate tonight and associated hardware.
Thank you everyone for your replies!
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The original right side engine mount is still on the car. Quick picture of it showing it is also an S2 mount.
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Two more pictures. 365 is cleaning up alright.
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Lumbes, I'm going to guess you called RD and asked for a TCS engine mount and they sent you the correct part?
Yep, my understanding is that Lotus mixed & matched mounts on the Elan because the carbs contacted the underside of the bonnet on some configurations.
Because these mounts largely 'fit' either model, the height difference likely passes unnoticed.
Surfing around, it seems Serge has TC mounts for his S1. Maybe he'd swap them with Turbo . . :))
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GavinT your assumption is correct.
Cutting out the old firewall this week and will glass in 3/4 pvc sheeting as a replacement along with a roll of B-Quiet HLiner Heat and Sound Insulation.
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I bought new rear bearings and hardened spacers some time ago and am now eager to install them. Big issue is I'm not sure how to remove the axle from the bearing housing. The book says to put the nut back on the axle and to hammer it out. I gave it a couple smacks with a mini sledge and not really liking the results. Also tried to fit a 3 arm puller but couldn't get it to stay put. The radius arm is still attached to the car. Will my best bet be to cut that flex brake line near the pivot point of the radius arm remove the radius arm with the bearing housing still attached and then take it to an automotive shop to press it out? I'd prefer to tackle this aspect of the project tonight in my garage but ultimately am looking for progress. Any and all advice is very welcome.
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If you protect the threads on your stub axle with a nut, you should be able to knock it out of your bearings. Maybe some Loctite got on the stub axle where the bearing seat or maybe the bearings were seated with Loctite and it's a bit harder to break it loose then it might otherwise be. There is nothing else that could be holding the stub axle in the housing.
It wouldn't be a bad idea to disconnect the brake line at the pivot of the radius arm. Don't cut it! It's not easy to get at but it's not as hard as it looks. With the radius arm off, you can support it on something solid and give it some good whacks to break it free.
Or you should be able to find a puller (or pusher :) ) at a car parts store that will work. The puller you've used is probably too small. For example, the Advance Auto Parts near me keeps a stock of tools. It has a deal where you buy the tool, you use it and when you return it, you get your money back. A good puller and an impact wrench should break it free too. It would be an excellent idea to protect your threads with the nut when using the puller!
If it's still stuck, you'll have to take it to get pressed off. I would consider that only when it's obvious that the previous methods fail. They should work so you should need to get this far.
Good luck!
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Clean the rust off best as you can too as it is trying to go through the ID of the bearing ….
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I'm surprised at how much rust there is, usually the Loctite keeps things cleaner. I'm wondering if there was any Loctite used ?
However that's not important now, it needs to come apart. Personally I'd wire brush everything and leave it soaking in Plus Gas or equivalent overnight, then try the sharp tap method to get it out. Given the rust on the splines there could well be some more inside the housing around the bearing spacer and that might be what's causing the trouble. Penetrant should help if there is some internal rust.
It's usually easier with the arm off the car but you can do it in place, it's just harder to make sure all the energy goes into moving the shaft. If it's still resisting then I'd get some heat on the housing, the bearings are toast anyway so it doesn't matter what happens to them.
Brian
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Yeah, get it to the bench, for sure, I reckon.
The brake flex line is somewhat buried in the body but should come out with perseverance. Otherwise, they aren't expensive and if they're old anyway, I'd just cut them.
The rust looks a bit gnarly from here. Zooming in on the pic, I think I see wads of Loctite lodged in the splines next to the outer bearing? Take a wire brush or a pick and see what that is.
If it is Loctite, then apply some decent heat to melt it and then try the puller again.
Alternatively and to save the nut & threads, find a length of pipe which will go over the threads and locate on the shoulder where the splines start. Heat up the axle / Loctite and whack that with your BFH.
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***DELETIA***
It's usually easier with the arm off the car but you can do it in place, it's just harder to make sure all the energy goes into moving the shaft. If it's still resisting then I'd get some heat on the housing, the bearings are toast anyway so it doesn't matter what happens to them.
Brian
If you're this far in, as my mate Brian (with an I) says: the bearings are toast anyway, so consider them consumable items which you ARE going to replace, along with the spacers, outer nut, and locking washer. The saved parts are the housing, axle, hub and shield next to the universal/inner bearing. All of them are available (at a price) if it really goes toes up, but, the bearings are destined for the bin, so adding some heat to the mix is not the worst you can do (in moderation...).
If you are going to drop the arm(s), I'd just cut the flex brake hose. Probably long past their 'sell by' date anyway. Replacements are available from the usual places. I did stainless a couple times...the original style work just fine for street use.
Probably if you do drop the arm(s) to do this job (as much of a PITA as it may be...), you may also want to consider the metalastic mounts for the front end of the arm in the frame, as well as the bushings for the lower links. Lotus-supplies (no interests, etc) has nice polyurethane bushings that replace the rotted (I'm pretty sure yours are in the same condition as mine...and while they're off or disconnected...you know...do it once etc.
Sounds like shipwright's disease, I know. But refresh/renovate everything you can while you're there and you won't have to go back when access may be a bit more difficult once it's all together.
Just my $.02.
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It was stubborn but I proved to be more so and released the axle from the carrier after cleaning the splines, using heat, a pipe and sledge, and a puller. Looks like the loctite found its way to the bearing like the previous picture shows. Perhaps that is what made it overly difficult to remove? Oh well, tomorrow I will attempt to remove and replace the bearings followed by rebuilding the left side completely. Going to take my time to make sure I'm doing things the right way. Will be digging into this forum for info using it as a guide and rewatching the videos posted by sleurs. Afterwards I will try my luck on the other side and hopefully removing the axle goes a little smoother etc. Thank you to everyone who participates on this forum. Can't imagine figuring out all this stuff without this place.
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Old bearings and spacers are out. New bearings and hardened spacer installed but now trying to make heads or tails with the orientation of the seal and flinger. This is what I am considering right from how it came apart and what I've looked up.
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Seal orientation is correct. Remember to grease the seal lip. Slinger goes on the axle itself. It should not be loose.
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Excellent. I will grease the seal lip. The seal and flinger are new along with new stub axles and hubs all ordered from Rdent. Hanging onto the old stub axles and hubs as back ups or items to sell/donate on here. Just took apart the backplate to repaint and replace the cylinder. Already have new pads so when all put back together it will look and perform like it should. Would like to pull the axle through and dry fit the hub tonight. Still far from taking it out on the road (right side needs new bearings and same process) so wont be applying the loctite at this stage.
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Recall reading that the correct process to snug it all up involves some driving, tighten, drive, and tighten again.
The reason I have not assembled my rear hubs yet.
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Axle is in the freezer and backplate has been restored and bolted to the radius arm. Thinking of letting the axle freeze over night as I only thought to put it in a few hours ago.
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If I'm lucky I will get to familiarize myself with the correct process of locking down the hubs before first snowfall. Winters have been arriving late in western PA past few years that could be my godsend. Maybe this year will be the same and I might have some time to enjoy the car before spring of 2024! That is the goal at least. When restoring the firewall I chose to only cut out the left side. It was the only section that was rotting while the rest of it looked kind of good. When it comes time to removing the body I will remove the rest of the fibreboard and match the patch. So the patch is a 1/2 of pvc board and glassed it in. Went in well so next step was to install the heat shield and sound deadening material. Went with a product called B-Quiet. I had to cut it into a few sections to fish it behind the bars and behind the fuel tanks. Ouch...Could of been installed better as I ended up with excessive heavy wrinkles on the bottom right side. Might of needed cut down just a touch but the stuff really sticks so not sure if I will be pulling it out to try a new piece or not. It's better than what was in there but hell if that doesn't bug me. Absolutely am going to continue to try to roll/work out the wrinkles. If all fails then I guess the engine will hide a bit of it. Haha not proud to post this pic but it's for the community. Looks like a good product but also kind of easy to butcher. Live and hopefully learn.
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dry fit. axle pulled through just need to torque close to spec and will begin the other side later today.
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How did you pull the axle through?
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Lumbes, there’s certainly nothing wrong with mounting your boosters in the “standard” location, assuming you’re keeping them. I moved mine to the area behind the rear wheels. It cleans up the area and I put a panel with some electronics in their place.
Just a thought.
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I've never installed an axle before so I'm sure better ways exist but I put the stub axle in the freezer for about 7 hours. Ran up to the garage and pushed the axle in until I met resistance. Flinger on axle and seal already in the housing I used a 3 arm puller to get it started then switched over to a rubber mallet and a piece of wood shown in the picture below. I drove it in most of the way with that then snugged up the hub nut 10 lbs less than spec to 140 ft lbs using a piece of angle with holes drilled to fit two of the wheel hub lugs.
The brake boosters....A bit of a headache when I look at it. As cool as they are they are a bit convoluted and cumbersome in their original location. I see a few people here have gotten rid of them completely and went single circuit instead of the dual. Simplify and add lightness, very cool. I'll be waiting till the body comes off to redo all the brake lines and will determine then if im sticking with the dual circuit or not. I will have to inspect a couple pictures from your posts BDA to see how exactly you moved the boosters. Might be something I can do now.
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Here's a picture of one of my boosters that unfortunately shows a bit of sloppy setup (but then it's usually hiden by the trunk tray! :) ).
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Excellent lighting in your photos, Lumbes :-) (What's Lumbes mean?)
And nice to see what you're doing. I think I should do this. It doesn't look overly difficult. Thanks for the info!
-Vince
FWIW, "Fotog" is short for fotogelegenheit, the name of my former boat. That's "photo opportunity" auf deutsch.
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Hmm wow yeah I really like that setup. Great work BDA that has to really clean up the engine bay and like you said with the trunk in they are hidden.
Lumbes is just as bastardization of two names that I came up with when thinking of a username to use so no significant meaning.
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I eliminated the boosters and still running dual circuit, it greatly simplified the brake lines!!! Of course I haven't driven it yet .......soon hopefully :)
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I eliminated the boosters and still running dual circuit, it greatly simplified the brake lines!!! Of course I haven't driven it yet .......soon hopefully :)
The change I noticed more was after rebuilding the calipers (3 of the 4 pistons were well and truly stuck...which leads me to ask what WAS I stopping with in the 7 months between getting it on the road and refreshing the front end???) was that the pedal travel moved in about a half an inch (I went with greenstuff pads on the basis of recommendations when removing the boosters...) and there was actual 'pedal' versus the somewhat hard that it was before.
Still have to get under there and pull out the old front-to-back-to-front piping for the calipers and simplify the bundy tubing runs in 3291R. Would be easier, I guess, if I just bit the bullet and pulled the body, but not convinced myself yet that I want to do that.
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The 4 corners of the Europa are finished as of 2 weeks ago and I am thrilled with the progress I've made with the car but I'm still without an engine. It's really unfortunate that the shop and their machine shop have not been able to be of much help. They focus on vintage race cars and foreign cars. Started talking to them about 2 years ago and they said they are familiar with the Europa and would gladly work on it. Their shop is always packed and getting fit into the schedule took a bit of time but I was able to drop the car off last week of February this year. Had the car back in my garage March 1st with the transmission and a make shift bracket holding it to the body so the car could be loaded onto a flatbed and transported. The engine sat in their shop for months while they told me they are so backed up along with their machine shop and that it's been a nightmare. They insisted that they will still do the work but to be patient. I gave patience a real honest try, going in every other week to ask about updates the situation never really improved. The engine did make it to their machine shop but it's just been sitting there for months and now a time of over 7 months has elapsed and my last update was the engine is in good shape but no machine work has begun yet. At this point I have lost faith and am going to tell them that their services are no longer required and to return the engine and misc parts back to me. I live roughly 30 minutes north of Pittsburgh Pennsylvania and am asking if anyone knows of a machine shop that does work on Lotus Twin Cam engines. This has been a real let down so if any of you know of any worthwhile contacts I can go after in the area I would be so very thankful. I'm not opposed to sending it away out of state either. Last option is for me to take on the work. The scope of work is to swap out the cams with a kit I ordered from QED. 420 spec was the raciest I could go without needing to spec up the bottom end or do serious machine work to the cylinder head. I have all associated parts plus adjustable cam sprockets so would need to drive out the old valve guides and install the new ones. Rebuild the water pump, fuel filter, reseal the sump pan after installing the baffle kit and repaint the block to its original Ford blue. If I'm careful and attentive any chance I could tackle this bit on my own or is that really ill advised for someone who has no prior Lotus Twin Cam engine work under their belt? I have the Miles Wilkins Twin Cam engine book and have been going over it to familiarize myself with the idea of doing it myself.
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I don't know what previous experience you've had with with aluminum cylinder head work but I would be very cautious with doing the work yourself. If you are installing new valve guides, may as well install new seats and valves as well. I'm in a three year engine rebuilding process on my TC engine and I farmed out the head overhaul work to a Lotus specialist. I'm reassembling the bottom end but never considered tackling the head. I don't remember how much detail Wilkins had in his book on the head but if you have the equipment and the necessary skills, give it a go. but if you have never tacked a head before, screwing up the head due to a novice error can be expensive. Shipping a head by FedEx or UPS is possible.
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Quicksilver Racing Engines in Frederick, MD is always good - a few hours away from you though.
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Thank you for some perspective Grumblebuns, I haven't done cylinder headwork before so sending the head out to a specialist is really my only option then.
I'll reach out to Quicksilver Racing Engines and have them determine a quote to do the headwork for me while I take care of the rest.
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Quicksilver Racing Engines have replied and said they will begin working on a quote for me. Thank you cazman I am already starting to feel a little better now that I am able to work towards a more viable plan.
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The block should be gray. Let us know what Quick Silver says/does for you!
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Your right TurboFource, the block should be gray. Thank you for the correction. I'll definitely post what happens with Quicksilver as it develops. I still have to pick up my engine and misc parts from the shop so that will be next week. Once that is in hand I'm going to get it over to Quicksilver as soon as possible.
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As previously posted, changing valve guides isn't a normal DIY job. There's nothing difficult to it but you do need an oven large enough to take the head and raise the temperature to 100/150C, plus a freezer for the guides. So if you're doing that you might as well change the valve seats as well for something more suited to modern fuels and that means you need a valve seat cutter as well, not something you normally keep on the DIY shelf. So like a re-bore, it's a machine shop and in the case of the head, one that knows what it's doing.
But everything else is DIY and not difficult, if you get stuck then just post on here because many of us have done these jobs before.
Changing cams is easy enough but laborious unless you just happen to have a stock of the shims on hand because you're certain to need some new ones. That's the advantage shops have, they'll have a shim bank but even so all I did was measure up and order a new set from Burtons which came in a couple of days. The other aspect is if you need to alter the carburettors, webers/dellortoes are usually easy because so much is known, but if yours is on Strombergs I think you might need a rolling road or at least a wideband sensor + meter.
As an aside, your patience is amazing. I get that good shops have a long waiting time but 7 months is getting silly, it's almost in the "who's that belong to ?" category now. Maybe asking for the parts to be returned will spur them into action but if not then I'd also be looking for alternatives for the head work.
Brian
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Currently, the plan is to collect all the Europa parts from the shop next week and once I go through everything I will drive the head down to Quicksilver Racing Engines in MD. It's just a little over 3 hours from my location. Quicksilver Racing Engines can rebuild the head with all new parts, valves, seats, guides etc. I talked to them on Friday and they told me to bring it down any day during the week. When I purchased the car it had downdraft Webers with a funky saxophone like throttle body. The set up was horrible with mix matched bolts and a considerable pool of gasoline trapped at the bottom of the throttle body. The mix had to travel a much longer and arduous distance than originally intended, just couldn't live with that setup. It would take about 20 cranks of the key after it sat for a while to actually get the mix to the head so I dumped that whole set up and replaced it with 2 Mikuni HSR 42s. That starting problem disappeared instantly and for good. They are side draft, easy to work on and bring in more air when compared to the Strombergs. The Strombergs may actually be great but I haven't experienced them and decided to go with something more modern after JB recommended them on here. I used an old style Elan secondary throttle body and turned it upside to put the balance pipe up top to keep gasoline from collecting. Installed an exhaust bung and put in wide band 02 sensor and a digital reader that can record drives. Spent a good amount of time changing jets and needles to find the right air fuel ratio so once I dialed them in they were a night and day difference when compared to the downdraft Webers that the PO put on. I bought a whole new exhaust system from rdent and had them ceramic coated and fitted it to the car late last year. I will be putting a bung in the new exhaust system and will be able to tune the carbs to the new cams once the head is rebuilt. I really should of grabbed my engine/parts from that shop months ago but oh well, things are starting to look more promising and I can't wait to get started.
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Picked everything up today! Gotta find a place for everything inside then a trip to Maryland on Monday.
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Good to see some progress although it's a shame the original shop didn't get their act together and start work on your engine. But if they're not going to move any time soon then finding someone else for the work is what I'd have done as well.
It looks a neat package as well, let's hope it's reduced to an engine-shaped size very quickly !
Brian
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Visited Quicksilver Racing Engines in MD yesterday and dropped off the lump. Two formula fords being built from the ground up and a staggering number of blocks, cylinder heads, crankshafts etc that it was nearly a sensory overload. This is the place for 4 cylinder engines to be reborn and rebuilt to any degree. However, my eye was drawn to a Conventry Climax for an Elite which was cool to see disassembled. The place is incredibly clean and just stunning to be honest. I can't really compare it to any place I've been to before. They just finished up with rebuilding a Lotus Twin Cam so I was able to take a look at it and he showed me the billing to give me a rough idea of what all can be involved. I was very happy with everything I saw, and we talked about my build for a while, went through the parts I brought then did a tour of the building. In the end I gave him a budget I had in mind and an amount I hope to not exceed along with a few criteria. 140 hp or more and for me to be able to use pump gas. Told them to have some fun with it. They said that shouldn't be a problem and to give him a couple days to test the block, head, and to come up with a quote. I'll put 50 percent down and work begins. They dyno all the engines they build so an engine dyno will be included in the quote. I'll post updates as they come. Still hoping to drive the car before 2024 on a mild December day but if not, then it will definitely be the first dry, snow free day of 2024.
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I remember Quicksilver when I was racing in the mid to late ‘70s. They were respected back then. That they build good engines is not a surprise to me but your description only raises my estimation of them. You could do a lot worse very easily and it would be very difficult to do much better. Let us know how happy you you are with the results. Love to see the dyno sheet!
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Nice!
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I am glad you were impressed. My motor had some "special" attention there, as I broke a rod that did some, at the time, unknown damage. Once I saw their internal capabilities to assess my bore, block, and crank, I knew I was in good hands. Its nice to have a shop that can do almost all advanced work in house. At worst, I needed a new block, crank, and rod. They were able to repair everything with only a replacement rod and since then the engine runs like a top!
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Picked up the engine from Quicksilver Race Engines last Friday. Here are a couple pictures of the rebuilt engine. Still much to do but I nearly have all the parts ordered to finish this stage of project.
Currently I have someone who really knows their way around the 365 working on rebuilding it and with any luck is only a few weeks out from being finished.
I had a shop pull the engine last year but I am no longer dealing with them being they know less than I do when it comes to working on the Europa.
I'll be installing the engine and transmission myself, with that I figured I should ask the community is there any problem with installing the engine now then fitting the transmission later once it's done?
Appreciate any advice/insight, thanks!
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Looks nice. I can't advise about installation though.
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I do not have a TC but find aligning the transmission and bolting up much simpler out of the car, for every car I've ever had with the sole exception of a VW Bug.
Do support the engine from above while installing the mounts if possible.
If you fit the engine first having to get under the car to fit up transmission bolts is not fun.
Only three mounting points so not too difficult to set the whole assembly in place.
I've just changed out engine mounts on an S2 and found a couple of tricks that probably apply.
Put all the engine mount bolts in place but do not fully tighten until all three mounts are fitted.
Then tighten the mounts to the chassis before snugging up the bolts between the engine and mount.
To reach both ends of the bolts inside the box frame wrenches were nearly useless.
Using two sockets with one on a breaker bar and some extensions made it much easier.
I would say an air ratchet is indispensable.
YMMV.
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I have taken the 365 from my car when it was "new." The engine was in, of course. It was a long time ago but I don't remember it being terribly difficult to get out or back in. IIRC, I jacked up the rear of the car and dropped it out the bottom. That being the case, JB's rear stand setup (box section steel piece cut out for the rear hoop and supporting either end with jack stands) or similar is good because you can use a floor jack to push the tranny toward the engine.
Unfortunately, I've never tried to put the engine and tranny in together so I can't say if Richard's method would work for you. IIRC, the 365 sits "inside" the rear hoop so it might be a good way of doing it. In fact thinking about it, it probably makes sense to bolt the engine and tranny together and try it. If it's better, it could be a lot better. Mating my NG3 to my engine in the car is a long fiddly, frustrating job and doing that on a bench or the floor where you have more control could make it a lot easier. If that doesn't work, you can install them separately.
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Being that I still have more to do before mounting the engine to the chassis (need to order a new pressure plate. Studs, washers, lock nuts for engine bracket will arrive Monday, and fit the new aluminum swirl pot and radiator) I think I'm going to wait until the 365 is finished and back in my hands. Thanks Richard and BDA, I like the idea of mating the transmission to the engine in a free and open space then dropping them into the car together. I imagine with the cross beam removed along with the diagonal braces that it could be fitted from above with my crane and load leveler. Like BDA just said, if that doesn't work I can install them separately.
Embarrassingly enough I can't recall how the fuel system was hooked up and am trying to figure out how it was. Going to take a few pictures and upload them on here hoping to eventually make sense of it.
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Are those Mikuni carbs on that engine? They, and the choke plate look like the kit I just got.
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Yes, first take the cross member and diagonal braces.
Are you keeping your charcoal cannister and catch tank? If not, the plumbing is trivial (hoses from both tanks go to a 'T' and then into the fuel pump which then go to the carbs). Otherwise, the parts manual gives clues but not enough for me, sorry.
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Yes, they are Mikunis and choke plate came from vintage performance developments.
No charcoal cannister or catch tank.
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I think I've read that the original plastic fuel tubing is very durable. I wouldn't know. I know that the original plastic 'T' between the carbs is responsible for more than a couple flaming Europas. I would replace it all with at least new good quality fuel hose and metal fittings and clamps and I'd make sure it's clamped down regularly and grommeted so there is no possibility the hose can chafe against the frame, engine, or body.
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Will do. Quicksilver replaced the carb T and the two fuel lines along with the clamps. They look to be of good quality. The rest of the fuel line and T's yeah...I'm going to call RD on Monday and see I can replace the rest with new.
In the picture below with crude illustrations I drew black lines representing fuel lines and orange T's representing the T's. Is that about what I'm trying to achieve?
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When I removed the engine and transaxle from my car the body was still on the frame.
Not wanting to risk body damage I removed the engine cover, lifted the rear of the car on sturdy stands, and took it all out the bottom after removing the intake system.
Now my body is off the frame and drivetrain work is a snap.
I will refit the body after the drivetrain and suspension are nearly complete.
For your car I would still prefer an install from the underside as one unit, leaving the transmission mount off for more fore and aft room until it is nearly all in place.
There is just not a lot of space up top and paint/body repairs are expensive.
No matter how you do it reaching some of the bolts will be somewhat difficult, since you have nice paint some sort of cover to protect it will be a must.
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Hi Lumbes, I installed my engine and trans as one unit from the top on my 74 TCS. Here are some pics. It was an easy one man job. I always like to install and engine and trans as one unit if possible.
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Excellent photos merc and hugely appreciated. After seeing all the advice posted I am definitely waiting for the 365 to be finished so I can mate it to the engine then install as one unit. To install above or below, I have some time to set up for both and think over what will work best for my scenario.
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Pulled the original radiator out tonight. I could be interested in having it restored but for now just happy to have a new replacement on hand. Tilting it from side to side you can hear a considerable amount of flake traveling. Really, it is rather alarming that I was cooling my engine with these. Well no longer, I have all new tubes, hoses and everything for the cooling system to go with the engine rebuild. I am also broke but I believe in the journey and am overjoyed to be walking it.
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What would a good temp range be for the rad switch? Am I looking for a 90C-85C or would something that starts the fan sooner be of better interest? Thanks!
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This is a TC rad and the rad fan switch is in the hot side of the rad. You can't have a rad fan switch that turns off at a temp lower than the thermostat closes. Typically you run a 72° or 80° thermostat. As long as you are 5° or so above, you should be fine. Not many options available if your new rad takes the "otter" style rad fan switch.
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My rad took an M22x1.5 screw in switch that was easy enough to find online.
Went to install the new clutch and new pressure plate today and while using a clutch alignment tool it dawned on me that I am probably jumping the gun here...or maybe not but it made me pause and ask, am I missing a pilot bearing and seal here? Was watching a video of a flywheel, clutch and pressure plate install and noticed they were replacing a bearing and seal that was located within the flywheel where as mine has no bearing present.
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I just found in a parts page it is the spigot bearing that I am missing. Definitely am going to want to put that in before the clutch! Time to measure the I.D. of the new flywheel and compare it to the old one. With luck they are the same and I can order one from RD on Monday.
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The old flywheel has an insert pressed in to reduce the ID but if it wasn't there the ID would be a very close match to the new flywheel. The old flywheel insert does not appear to be a bearing. Looks like a solid part with no moving parts. My intentions are to leave the old flywheel alone and hope a bearing/insert from RD goes right in the new one.
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A lot of vehicles use a bronze bushing.
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Very cool to find out. This is my first encounter with one but hoping once I take care of the Europa properly I can drag in another old Bristish sports car and begin the learning all over again. I can see wear marks on the inside of the metal bushing that is in the old flywheel. Can't really say how worn out it is but going with a new one is the plan. If RD has them then I can expect to have it in my hands Tuesday or Wednesday. From there, I'll install the bearing, put the clutch in with the flat side facing the flywheel and throw sum medium strength loctite on the bolts for the new pressure plate. Probably should pick up some paint for the new pressure plate. It is nice new clean metal that will probably begin to rust within no time if i leave it unpainted.
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Don’t paint the pressure plate!
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Thanks JB. I definitely will not paint the pressure plate/clutch cover.
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Not a hugely important question, been doing some inventory to discover I am missing the hardware for the thermostat housing.
Anyone here know off the top of their head what those bolts are supposed to be?
Aside from that, put the new clutch on and the alternator pulley, new aluminum coolant header tank, the shifter, the repainted shift tube and a new grounding strap.
Hoping that the transmission will be finished soon I am stupidly excited to put this car back on the road.
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Not a hugely important question, been doing some inventory to discover I am missing the hardware for the thermostat housing.
Anyone here know off the top of their head what those bolts are supposed to be?
They are m7 bolts in various lengths providing you have a wedge or cross flow .
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Anyone here know off the top of their head what those bolts are supposed to be?
On a TC, those two bolts are 5/16" UNC with 1/2" heads.