Author Topic: 72 Europa Brakes  (Read 2062 times)

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Offline marks

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72 Europa Brakes
« on: Thursday,March 17, 2022, 03:37:14 PM »
I had some brake issues before the long cold winter started here in Wisconsin.  I was getting a hard brake when I first bled the system; and then the pedal would get softer.  I was going to take off the master cylinder today and have it sleeved; however, I noticed that it was completely dry.  I know that I filled it last fall.  I have found no large puddles of brake fluid on the floor.  Is it possible that the servos sucked up the brake fluid?  Thanks for the help!

Offline BDA

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Re: 72 Europa Brakes
« Reply #1 on: Thursday,March 17, 2022, 03:45:58 PM »
I would say that if you can’t find any leaks (make sure you check places where it might not form a puddle), that your booster(s) are the likely suspects. What kind of boosters do you have and how old are they?

Offline jbcollier

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Re: 72 Europa Brakes
« Reply #2 on: Thursday,March 17, 2022, 04:27:25 PM »
Have a look in the chassis as well.  If the master is leaking the fluid goes in there.

Offline marks

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Re: 72 Europa Brakes
« Reply #3 on: Friday,March 18, 2022, 07:13:49 AM »
My boosters are the original boosters; and they were rebuilt several years ago but have not been used until now.  I have checked the chassis and I do not see any brake fluid there.

Offline Arizona

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Re: 72 Europa Brakes
« Reply #4 on: Friday,March 18, 2022, 07:22:26 AM »
Is it possible that the servos sucked up the brake fluid?  Thanks for the help!
Check the vacuum line from the intake manifold. I removed my boosters when I discovered that one of them was leaking internally and the fluid was being sucked into the engine.
George F. Johnson

Offline marks

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Re: 72 Europa Brakes
« Reply #5 on: Friday,March 18, 2022, 08:23:10 AM »
Thanks for the suggestion.  I will look at that.

Offline marks

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Re: 72 Europa Brakes
« Reply #6 on: Friday,March 18, 2022, 04:11:54 PM »
I did take off the vacuum line and the bottom booster was leaking brake fluid into the engine.  I am worried about my fresh engine rebuild as I have run it a couple times about ten minutes.  I am presently draining the oil from the oil pan.  Are there further steps that I should take to preserve the engine?  Is there someone that rebuilds boosters; and I suppose the best thing is to have both of them built?  I appreciate any help and suggestions of what I should do next.  I am a newbie at this Europa work as I bought a basket case and did not realize all the nuances of the Europa.  I treasure the help on this Tech Board!

Offline jbcollier

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Re: 72 Europa Brakes
« Reply #7 on: Friday,March 18, 2022, 04:56:09 PM »
It won't harm your engine other than make it smoke.

The dual booster system is ridiculously complicated.  Remove the boosters and miles of extra lines and fit a 0.70 master from a Triumph Spitfire.

Offline Arizona

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Re: 72 Europa Brakes
« Reply #8 on: Friday,March 18, 2022, 06:03:38 PM »
.I am worried about my fresh engine rebuild as I have run it a couple times about ten minutes.
I'm sure I ran mine way longer than that with it leaking. No harm done.
George F. Johnson

Offline marks

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Re: 72 Europa Brakes
« Reply #9 on: Saturday,March 19, 2022, 08:49:36 AM »
Thanks for the replies!  If I were to go to the 0.70 Triumph master cylinder; which one do I go with?  I see 3 different ones listed in the Moss catalog?  Also, does it line up with the existing linkage and are there instructions somewhere?  I hope that I am asking stupid questions.

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: 72 Europa Brakes
« Reply #10 on: Saturday,March 19, 2022, 10:17:00 AM »
Thanks for the replies!  If I were to go to the 0.70 Triumph master cylinder; which one do I go with?  I see 3 different ones listed in the Moss catalog?  Also, does it line up with the existing linkage and are there instructions somewhere?  I hope that I am asking stupid questions.

Hi there,
Firstly, there's no such thing as a stupid question here, if you don't know something then asking about it is very sensible. The dumb thing is to take a stab in the dark and get it wrong when a two minute post/question will get you background info and some idea of how to go about the job.

So....   the 0.7 Triumph Spitfire is an easy option although there are a few potential hiccups. I fitted one to my UK car, documented here;

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=138.0

Incidentally it's no longer on my car but that's down to a re-designed braking system, not the 0.7" M/C being unworkable.

Secondly Joji has documented fitting the same thing to a Federal car and has posted up an excellent summary here;

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1818.0

He then went on to do a round up of what alternatives have been fitted over the years. My personal view is that the Spitfire one is a good choice if you want a dual circuit m/c with the original brake setup, you might want to get some background of what other folks have done. List is here;

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2457.0

On the topic of servo/boosters, the internal failure where the brake fluid gets sucked into the engine and burnt is reasonably common with old units and was one of the reasons I decided to do without them. With no "low fluid" light on these cars I just got paranoid about checking fluid levels which persists even now because despite having no servo assistance I fitted a reservoir cap which had a built in float switch & wired it to a warning light.

cheers
Brian



Offline marks

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Re: 72 Europa Brakes
« Reply #11 on: Saturday,March 19, 2022, 05:10:35 PM »
Wow; this was great information!  I have a 1972 federal car, so I went with the federal instructions. If I may ask anther question.  I looked in my Moss catalog and there were two master cylinders listed with the small cap- #580-115 Master Cylinder TRW/Girling for $169.99 and #580-110 Master Cylinder aftermarket for $59.99.  The instructions mention the aftermarket one.  Suggestions on which one I should order?  After over 10 years putting the pieces of this basket case together, I might be starting to see the light at the end of a very long tunnel.  I have sat in the car and dreamed about driving it; and maybe that day will miraculously come.  Thanks again!

Offline Grumblebuns

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Re: 72 Europa Brakes
« Reply #12 on: Saturday,March 19, 2022, 09:12:22 PM »
Wow; this was great information!  I have a 1972 federal car, so I went with the federal instructions. If I may ask anther question.  I looked in my Moss catalog and there were two master cylinders listed with the small cap- #580-115 Master Cylinder TRW/Girling for $169.99 and #580-110 Master Cylinder aftermarket for $59.99.  The instructions mention the aftermarket one.  Suggestions on which one I should order?  !

Read John Colliers reply #1 & 3 on http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1818.0 to answer your question. If this a temporary fix until you get your boosters rebuilt, I'd buy the cheap M/C. If permanent, I'd buy the TRW/Lucas one. Additionally, if you reinstall your boosters and find your stock 0.875" M/C also needs a rebuild, you may want to try the large cap Spitfire M/C which also is 0.875". I have not tried it but the fit should be identical with the small cap.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: 72 Europa Brakes
« Reply #13 on: Saturday,March 19, 2022, 09:33:14 PM »
35 years wrench and I never had a bad new Girling cylinder.  New aftermarket?  Roughly a 5% failure rate.  "Rebuilt"?  50/50.

Offline marks

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Re: 72 Europa Brakes
« Reply #14 on: Sunday,March 20, 2022, 07:27:14 AM »
Thank you very much for the feedback!  You have made my decision a bit easier.