Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Members Cars => Topic started by: Polopharm on Friday,July 01, 2022, 11:59:02 AM
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Car was delivered last night. In some ways better and in more ways worse than expected but that's life.
Where is the appropriate spot to pick some brains regarding the fuego sourced tranny in this car?
I have about a full clutch pedal worth of play and about an inch from floor it begins to disengage but is still very difficult to shift regardless of force, Rev matching etc.
Full clutchless shifting with good Rev matching works best at this point.
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Sorry posted more pictures I thought....
And it's a Toyota 4age swapped car.
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Sorry for technical inability
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Is it still a cable operated clutch?
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Polopharm, you made it!! :Welcome:
Your tranny is an NG3 - a common swap/upgrade. The shop manual for it is on this page: http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/
Since your hydraulic clutch is probably not common to most of us, some pictures of how the cylinder is mounted is in order. I emailed a link to a youtuve video that might be useful but pictures would be more helpful.
Looking at the driving video again, I'm surprised you're having trouble. The driver in the video seems to be able downshift without double clutching. I wonder if the seller could give you some hints.
So other than the problem with the clutch, what did you find was better than expected and what was worse? Hopefully, your opinion is more favorable overall or at least it evens out.
If you need some assistance resizing pictures, try this: http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1379.0. An alternate method (that I use) is explained here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_55eg00H-w
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This is what the auction page for polopharm's car says:
Power is sent to the rear wheels through a Renault NG3 five-speed manual transaxle shifted through a Toyota-sourced cable linkage and a Honda Civic-sourced hydraulic clutch.
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Many of the hydraulic clutch set-ups have "automatic-adjustment" built in. This works fine on most cars but Europas have more vibration that most and this can lead to problems. It is important that the play is removed from the system mechanically. Then the clutch will work properly.
First check for freeplay at the pedal. Should be a slight amount of freeplay before the pedal/pushrod works on master cylinder.
Next disconnect the clutch slave from the clutch fork. Move the fork until you can feel the release bearing contact the clutch. Push the clutch slave push rod all the way in so the piston is bottomed in the cylinder. The push rod needs to be adjustable so you can attach so there is just a wee bit of play with the fork and slave set as above.
Last, bleed the system and you should be good to go.
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Hello all I am excited to be a member of the group. BDA has been very helpful during the whole process. I still really am amazed at how almost all real car people are helpful and generous. Thank you all in advance.
The upsides of the car- body is pretty darn good , it's hard to know in pictures. The rubber seals through out the car have all been replaced at some point. All the electrics seem to work well except fuel gauge and speedo. The gauges are all modern but look very much like old Smiths at first glance. Interior - dash is excellent, door panels excellent. Headliner- very amateur refinish, seats are a touch more worn than I anticipated.
As to shifting- I also went back and watched the video. Perhaps JBCollier is correct and the transporter vibrated it to the point where the adjustment is totally out of whack.
The h pattern has no centering springs, and it also feel like the shifter is binding somewhere.
As a little background - I am an equine veterinarian and work exclusively with Polo horses throughout the world, thus my handle - polopharm.
But my passion is racing cars. I am a pretty good amateur with several titles and plenty of wins.
I have digressed to explain that I am used to driving non syncro , dog boxes, sequential dog boxes, regular syncro trannies., tractor trailer split shift tranny. So I honestly can say I can normally get almost any car into gear and generally quite smoothly.
This car is hands down the worst shifting car I have ever driven ( including driving a 1972 BMW 2002 across the country with no slave cylinder.)
I am currently at a race in Savannah Georgia, SCCA Majors at Roebling road. So I will have to wait till Monday to get pictures.
As I said before clutch travels almost to floor then has about 1" of usable throw, and grinds going into any gear unless car is rolling.
Hopefully we can all figure it out when I get pictures.
Other positive the ac works! The interior is downright roomy especially compared to my race car
Many of the hydraulic clutch set-ups have "automatic-adjustment" built in. This works fine on most removed from the system mechanically. Then the clutch will work properly.
First check for freeplay at the pedal. Should be a slight amount of freeplay before the pedal/pushrod works on master cylinder.
Next disconnect the clutch slave from the clutch fork. Move the fork until you can feel the release bearing contact the clutch. Push the clutch slave push rod all the way in so the piston is bottomed in the cylinder. The push rod needs to be adjustable so you can attach so there is just a wee bit of play with the fork and slave set as above.
Last, bleed the system and you should be good to go.
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Too many interesting points to mention each one!
I’m looking forward to pictures of your clutch arrangement.
Europas have a bad reputation for shifting already (I think it’s mostly undeserved as long as you have realistic expectations. It’s never going to shift as well as an Elan for example). Your setup will present its own challenges but you should be able to get it right.
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I have a 395 transaxle in mine. I would recommend fitting a reverse lock-out. That alone will greatly improve the shifting. You should go through all the linkage and make sure there is no play or wear first though.
rough prototype of reverse lock-out:
https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-4qr8BZx/A
finished piece:
https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-nc9PsWm/A
all buttoned up:
https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-SKn8D9L/A
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Polopharm :Welcome:
I noticed the auction on BAT and couldn't figure out how you were supposed to get fresh air in the cabin without opening the windows. Maybe the cabin is leaky enough as it is, or you don't care for fresh air, or don't mind opening the windows. Or all three. Just so long as you don't suffocate :D
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Hello all, long race weekend baking in the sun in Georgia.
Had a good weekend overall, some mechanical issues, just fitted a new engine and had some bugs to sort out. Plus the 880mi one way trip during 4th of July weekend...
I will be back at the Lotus tonight or tomorrow.
Will attempt to shoot some pictures of shifter set up , clutch etc.
As to fresh air I will have to report back. I only had the car for a few hours before heading out to race.
I don't expect laser focused precise shifts, just need to have it functional enough to be enjoyable.
If I let my wife drive it now she would freak out and not want to drive it ever again!!
Andy
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Welcome to the forum. Nice looking Europa, and should be a good goer. Your enablers are standing by. Cheers :beerchug:
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Have typed and somehow deleted 2 book length posts. So will make this short and hope it goes thru. Drove the car for like 45 min. Driving clutchless. Wanted to spend a bit of time driving before wrenching. Well it appears that there is no , literally no brake fluid in the clutch master cylinder so I will hopefully find out why tomorrow.
And hopefully fix , bleed and be all set.
The suspension is a disaster- or lack there of. The dampers are shot. Hitting and small bump is like a full on bottoming out. It bump steers like crazy. What is suggested the spax coil overs? I need new bushings and end links too.
The ac blows cold but the radiator hoses make SOO MUCH HEAT that it negates the ac. The center console, the shifter, everything is hot to the touch. Like burn your skin hot( slight exageration) temp Guage was reading up to 220, it was 95 out, and I did no stopping and starting. I have no idea how accurate the Guage is. The electric fan was on. My race car runs at 240 all day long. Is the heat in the cabin Normal? Just add insulation?
How does the wiper switch operate?
I am looking forward to sorting this stuff out. I am still looking forward to driving it.
Had I seen this one/driven in person I am not sure I would have bought it for what I did. But thats life.
Has lots of good points and makes me smile when I look at it. Hopefully I will be able to say the same after driving it!
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Putting fluid in your clutch slave and finding out how it leaked would be a big first step to your shifting woes!!
There are several manufacturers that make shocks for Europas. Spax are available from r.d. enterprises (and they're on special this month). I got Protech from SJ Sportscars (https://www.sjsportscars.com/). They are almost too pretty to put under a car. The stock springs on the front were 2 1/2" but most of the other aftermarket shocks (such as Protech) take 1.9" - the same diameter as the rear shocks take. That might be a consideration. r.d. also sells uprated springs. There are a lot of different views on what spring rates are best. I run 250#/130#, another popular setup is 150#/115#. There are sure to be other. I'm not married to my spring rates but they are not harsh as you might imaging. You probably want 10" or shorter springs in the front so you can lower the nose.
As for bushings, the stock ones work pretty well. There are poly ones available for the front from here (https://autobush.com/4/Lotus). The Elan and Europa front bushings are the same. When using the stock bushings, tighten up the nuts on the suspension at ride height so you don't tear the rubber when you hit a bump.
I met a guy at a LOG who did something I thought was interesting. He put sheet aluminum over the front of the fan except where the fan is. He said it made a huge difference both in coolant and cabin temps. I've also heard of sealing around the radiator hoses and anywhere else air could get into the frame. I have not tried either of these. I'm just reporting what I've heard. Some people here have put their radiator fan in the wheel well and reversed the rotation so it's a puller. That is supposed to be more efficient and it should pull hot air from the radiator away from the front compartment more efficiently.
Another thing that I haven't done yet is put a slab of foam rubber under the elbow cushion. There was one when the car was new and I have felt heat come from that area. I will be doing that when I find some.
My experience is that as long as there is air moving through the radiator, it stays pretty cool (below 100°C). I have an aluminum radiator I got from ebay (some are listed for as little as $69 so compare specs and prices). I have a fan controller with a built in relay that allows me to adjust when the fan comes on and also allows me to override the temperature switch. Other than that, it's pretty much stock (oh, ok. I have an oil cooler but I didn't put it in a very good location so I'm not sure it counts). I also use distilled water and Red Line Water Wetter with no antifreeze.
I'm sure you'll be able to sort these things out but it's a shame that the seller gave you so many things to sort!
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The stock Europa rad does not vent heat into the plenum. It vents into the right wheel well. 220 is hot for a 60s engine.
This is a resto-mod. I've no idea what's been done to it. Could you post the BAT link so we can examine the photos in detail?
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Skip that, found it:
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-lotus-europa-5/
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Air is coming in, some goes through the centre mounted rad and I'll bet they have air exiting through the chassis -- this is normally sealed off. This is not good. First air can go around the rad rather than through. Second, the hot air is not only heating your tunnel and yourself, it's heating up the engine compartment and engine air intake.
Time for some reengineering.
You have several options:
- fit a single thick rad on the right side as per original (uprated rads and, more importantly, fans are available)
- fit two rads, one on either side (more cooling capacity -- not sure this is needed myself)
- fit rad right side and ac left side (which would eliminate AC heat load on the rad)
- or use your front hood with an extractor vent (would require sealed ducting to make sure all heated air exits out)
I would recommend, and have done so myself, the first option. I have a larger than stock rad with the AC condenser mounted in front with a rad fan that pushes huge air. I use a fan controller that runs the fan at 50% when the AC is on, and the usual rad fan switch in the coolant. Works well.
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Looking at the auction photos, the shocks look like they had fresh paint and not much else. Good idea to fit new ones. RD Enterprises, Dave Bean, Lotus Supplies, Kelvedon, etc can supply shocks and springs to suit your requirements.
Suspension bushings look to be ok. They have also lowered the front too far so the tie-rods are angled up to the steering arm. This would indeed give massive bump steer! The 65 and the TC/S had their noses raised to reach legal headlight heights. You can lower them "some" but lowering them significantly without inducing bump steer is tricky. You might have to switch to rod ends and mount them underneath the arm.
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Great info will try n get suspension stuff ordered today. I saw the ones you got, they are car porn, do the gt40 style hoods actually help or a
re they more co
smetic? I am guessing my bushings insurance were damaged in the way you describe. Is there normally any heat shield around the radiator lines ?
How does the wiper switch work? Mine is pulled out like a choke would be. When I push in it wants to push back out. And not sure if it rotates?
The ac for those that asked has a on, off, vent, recirculate switch, so it can get straight fresh air when driving just not cold.
Weird question my consulier GTP my other "ugly" mid engine composite car has the radiator behind the engine , like at the back of the cargo area in the engine compartment. Has anyone done anything similar? It avoids all that heat in the cabin.
I am also going to look at the shifter cable set up as it may be a viable option
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My wiper switch is rotate clockwise to turn on wipers. Push is supposed to be a manual pump to squirt the water onto the screen. It does this but is reluctant to return (spring back out).
The Twin Cams don't usually have a closing plate to seal off the rack and chassis access from the front compartment like S1/2 do, it's all part of the overall body with the hoses poking through holes and going straight to the radiator, so air shouldn't be able to get into the chassis normally. The tunnel does get hot as the uncooled water is passing through the steel cooling tube on the way to the radiator. If you haven't got a foam pad blocking the hole under the armrest it will feel hot coming from under there. Cooling lines aren't normally shielded.
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Going to spend some time this weekend trying to resolve some issues.
I realize this is
pretty idiotic but I still can't figure out wiper switch- how does it work
I am going to check coolant level , does the system need to be bled? In my other mid engine cars you jack up the car such that the radiator filler is highest point on the cooling system. Are there other factors in the europa?
What tire pressure , ball park do you all run?
Hopefully the fluid loss is nothing major, previous owner says he NEVER checked it during his ownership!
He told me suspension was on his to do list, would have been nice to disclose that!
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If it has the stock switches, then the owners manual will show you how to work the wipers:
http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/index.htm
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I’ve always burped the cooling system the same way as any car - with 4 wheels on the ground. Maybe jacking up the front would be better. I don’t think it would hurt to do it that way.
Tire pressures are called out in the Technical Data section of the work shop manual (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/tcwork/tech/tctech.pdf). It lists pressures for under 100mph and over 100mph. At least one knowledgeable person I’m aware of prefers the over 100mph pressures so it might be useful to experiment a bit.
Make sure you bookmark http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/. It is the largest amount of information about Europas on one page.
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TC engines are not too fussy about bleeding. Slowly fill the system with the bleeders open and then open the rad bleeder again when the coolant is hot and pressurized. Renault engines are VERY fussy and need to be carefully bled as the thermostat is not the highest point in the cooling system. They have bleeders at the rad and water pump. Once properly bled, they are fine.
Your Europa is complicated by the fact it has a Toyota engine. Look closely and see where the high spots in the cooling system are. "PROBABLY" it is much like the TC with the thermostat located high. In which case fill carefully with bleeders open and then run it up and bleed at the rad.
(That said, I would like to see detailed photos of how the rad is mounted and plumbed)
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I am posting a picture of the last sale of my new vehicle. Is listed on the cars/rollers for sale includes some applicable pictures. Info from the previous owner or better still the builder would be appreciated
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Still like to see photos of the rad and plumbing, but, in order to make this work, I would go back to a stock style rad mounted in the front of the RH wheel well. This will get the waste heat out of the car and make a huge difference to your comfort and engine cooling. You can get cheap, Chinese aluminium rads for as low as $69. Myself, I have bought the Kelvedon race rad for a whole lot more. Regardless of which rad you get, throw away the supplied cooling fan and fit a high-flow one from Spal or Mercedes. Also two Gates 20661 rad hoses and a rad fan switch to suit the location of the sensor.
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Still trying to figure out the wiper switch. Enclosed is a picture. The wiper switch is in the pulled out position all the time. It doesn't appear to twist or to push in. What is normal operation?
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Wow guys. I am really a numbskull. My phone and this forum do not get along. I just now have seen the 2nd page of respondes to my questions , I will read through and digest it all. Apologies for seeing to ignore some great posts and info!!
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Well report back in depth but wondering if the clutch pedal has any adjustment at the pedal itself?
I am swapping slave cylinder to attempt to alter pedal feel and engagement.
Builder did a less professional job on the slave cylinder mount and how it engages the tranny.
Pictures to follow.
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Hi Polopharm,
welcome to the forum :Welcome:
Your dash is not original. the wiper switch looks like an s2 . check the wire colors coming into switch and match it up with the correct schematic listed on the link on the forum page ( last item in list) wiring diagrams.
Have you been trying to run the A/C at idle speed?
Dakazman
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Re the wiper switch. Can you get a closer photo of the front and back of it if possible
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So I am terrible on this forum, seems my posts go anywhere they feel like in this thread....and I cat post pictures.
So current state of weirdness-
It appears that someone did the following- they did the nissan f10 master cylinder upgrade....but they put it on the clutch, blocked off 2 of the exit ports and made it a single circuit set up.
And the brakes- 4 wheel disc's from Miata, are powered by a single piston, single reservoir master cylinder!
Why on earth would they do this?
Both master cylinders have remote reservoirs. The f10 has an ENORMOUS reservoir, the brakes have a small one, like a tilton size.
The f10 master cylinder is 3/4" bore and the slave cylinder is as well.
None of this makes any sense to me both in terms of safety with the brakes or with function relating to the clutch.
Am I missing something!!??
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No, it doesn’t make any sense. I would put the F10 M/C where the current brake M/C is and get a proper clutch master for the clutch (I won’t be much help on the size but if you were getting too much pedal travel you should consider a bigger one and/or a smaller slave cylinder.
If you’re on a computer and you’re having trouble with resizing your pictures, this might help: http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1379.0
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Hard to comment without photos. You can send photos to me and I'll post them for you.
One a typical hydraulic clutch conversion, the clutch m/c is the one closer to the centre of the car. Have a close look at the linkage and you will see that the clutcharmt is right under the throttle.
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Hi yes I saw where the clutch master was. I think someone along the way got confused, but I have switched it back.
Original build uses a honda slave cylinder, it was binding up at the arm to release throw out bearing. I added a heim joint, adjusted position of the slave cylinder so it has less angle. Struggling to get it to bleed well, but i am optimistic that it will improve clutch feel and function.
Lost the ac compressor belt on the road. It has less than 0.5" adjustment, so have very little margin of error with belt size. Had to eventually get one from a farm equipment supplier for a tiller! Its a 5 groove 335mm v belt. A 315 was too small and a 375 to big. That is less than
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Less than a 1 inch difference!!
Side note just looked at a 72 tc , complete car minus tc engine with a zetec, 100% disassembled. And a massive massive collection of spares, nos parts including windshield, straight body, solid rust free frame.
I am trying to convince myself not to buy it( its really cheap!) Problem is where to put it and how to move it all.
In my twisted mind i would build it as either an scca e production or GTL race car.
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It sure seems like your car is now in much better hands! It already had potential and now a lot more of it will be realized. I’m looking forward to hearing more about your improvements!
That ‘72 TC sounds like another great project, especially if it is really inexpensive! What temptation!
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So I got a somewhat decent clutch feel now. I was able to max out the adjustment at the pedal allowing a long throw in the master cylinder. Will still need to re engineer the slave cylinder , clutch arm set up to have better leverage but....
10 min into my first drive with a functional clutch, the timing belt started to self destruct.
First a whine , then a ticking.
You could stand and watch the broken teeth on the belt break loose and come out the front cover. So I stopped driving and towed it back.
The timing belt in this set up is within 2" of the rear bulkhead. As such this maybe an engine out service.
Anyone have experience with this on a 4age s
wap? Don't think that there is any chance that there is enough room.
Luckily these are non-interference engines.
But man, the car really doesn't like its new home.
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For someone who really needs it, you may be in luck. I had a Toyota Corolla from the mid to late 80s with a 4AGE motor and as I remember it was a non interference motor. This website says that all 4A-GE motors are not interference motors (https://ricksfreeautorepairadvice.com/toyota-interference-engines-list-toyota-non-interference-engines-list/).
I might do a leak down test to confirm that. You should be able to rotate the cams so the valves are closed without putting in a new timing belt. I'd expect that the DPO cut a door in the firewall for better access to the front of the motor. You would halve to take the carpet covered Masonite from behind the seats to get to it.
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No access thru cockpit. May change that now. The timing belt is loose due to tensioner being seized. Lost a bunch of teeth on belt. Will need to cut the access panel or drop engine.
What door mounted
mirrors work best?
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Judging from the picture of your engine compartment in the BaT auction, it might be best for you to pull the engine. Then you'd have good access to your belt tensioner and you can cut a door through the firewall for access to the front of the engine. It would also give you a chance to check on other things like motor mounts and anything you might want to change/improve. I don't need to tell you how much this stinks! You paid good money for what should have been a nice driver and you're almost in a restoration project!
You need door mirrors that are away from the door. The Sebring mirrors you have are more original (which were actually chrome plated pot metal rather than plastic) but it's difficult to place the passenger mirror anywhere it will do you any good. Taking Vitaloni mirrors here (http://www.talbotco.com/vitaloni_mirrors.html), I would recommend anything but the Sebring. I have Baby Turbo style mirrors and like them but to be honest, I rarely use the mirror on the passenger door. I have a convex clipon mirror on my internal rearview mirror available from ebay like this one (https://www.ebay.com/itm/301857530272?epid=628096184&hash=item46481c61a0:g:jqQAAOSwwXhi4Z1g). There are others that are even less expensive.
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Hmm, sounds like teething troubles.
(sorry about that chief)
Maybe now is the time to make an access panel in the firewall. That would save a lot of grief.
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What is recommended to cover the access hole? It's my understanding that the bulkhead is not very substantial. Clear lexan could work and provide visual assessment.
As to mirror , the add on rearview
mirror makes sense. I find the visibility pretty good, I don't want to have to fill in the holes in door , so was thinking a functional mirror would be nice. Mine is also cracked.
The overheating appears to have started due to a failing water pump. So am contemplating dropping in a used engine and rebuilding the current one.
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When I rebuilt my car, I chickened out when it came to replacing the firewall. I left the original and just put a layer of fiberglass cloth on the engine side. The original firewall is basically fiber board - presumably made of some nonflammable material. It is about 1/2" thick. I cut a hole and lined it with aluminum channel extrusions like you can get at a hardware store. The channel pieces were very close to the thickness of the firewall. I put threaded inserts in the channel pieces and used a piece of aluminum plate (probably 1/8" - 3/16" thick). I have no doubt that it could be done much nicer but what I have works (though it is a huge pain to take out because of the number of screws that hold the door in!!) and it can't bee seen! Anything that is not flammable would work for a door, I would think.
Replacing the firewall is not an uncommon restoration item so you'll obviously need to see what you have now. From the inside of the engine compartment, it looks as though there was at least a little thought about replacing the insulation.
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After some work related delays, getting around to working on my nice daily driver- lol
Will be able to remove water pump without dropping engine , loosened all mounts and can get just enough space to sneak it out.
Accessing everything is only possible from under car.
Going to replace all coolant hoses with silicone at same time.
Car is at a friend's shop to use lift. He asked about if anyone had added a cheapie reverse camera like the ones on Amazon that just go into lighter or any 12v.
He was very nervous driving it around parking lot and backing into things.
Not a bad idea. Camera goes on rear license plate holder. Very unobtrusive.
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My Europa has a reverse camera as part of the GPS unit. Works well.
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My car is apart for paint. But I plan to add a camera when I reassemble it.
[Edited for typos]
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I have an obsolete JVC single DIN radio that takes a camera. Of course you can add a screen wherever you want if you use one of those.
It's nice but I wouldn't say it's necessary. The license plate cameras are generally of lower quality - at least, that's my opinion based on the license plate camera on my Mercedes that crapped out. The flat area above the license plate is a handy place to mount a camera.
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Well it's been a trying first couple months of being a Europa owner. This has been a car I have always wanted, an attainable bucket list car.
I am sad to say that I am throwing in the towel. I am going to pursue selling the car. At this point I will try and get it up and running and see how much money I can re-coup. I am open to any suggestions on how to sell it.
I think BAT would relist it but I would obviously get killed on my sale price. I can't imagine a big bidding war on a car being relisted due to seller misrepresentation going very well!
I bought this a fun summer weekend driver. Almost 3 months in, I have driven it 3x, and each time ended in a different mechanical disaster.
Currently the new water pu
mp is installed. But the alternator bracket is cracked, and the normal adjuster bar was welded in a way that allows for about 1/4" of adjustment. At the end of the day the build quality just isn't what I expected. As the car
is, I am not sure I will ever feel comfortable driving any distance or having my wife
drive the car ever.
So, it's time to move on.
Any thoughts as to how to proceed are welcome. And obviously I expect to take a real beating financially. The time and money to redo this car negates the money I will lose.
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Was not clear in post, but the alternator bracket is kind of just the straw that broke the camels back. The adjustment bar is welded to the solid metal
motor mount, and obviously get a ton of constant vibration.
And I realize it's not a huge deal. It's just indicative of how the car was built.
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Sorry it worked out this way.
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This is the issue with taking on someone else's "Custom Build".
What made sense to them may not make sense to anyone else, and may not be readily serviceable.
A proper build would include a notebook for sources and procedures.
The nearer to original any car is the simpler to maintain.
I have not followed all of your post but from what I have read, with a little re-engineering it should be a fine car.
As I recall you are in So. CA?
Should be someone available to sort it properly for you.
A deep breath and pause may be better than giving up and taking a bath on value.
Eventually someone is going to sort it out, even it that means restore back to original.
I will follow your progress, if no one closer is available I might be able to take a crack at it in a month of so.
NV near Reno.
EDIT: Whenever I buy a car I assume the prior owner neglected it as they knew they were going to sell it.
So I change all the fluids, belts, and hoses first thing.
This has served me well, the only thing that still catches me are in-tank fuel pumps.
In your case you also have some poor engineering to deal with but I am sure it can be sorted.
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Very sorry to hear your Europa dream has not worked out. I hope you are not soured on Europas in general. They certainly have their issues, lovingly referred to as 'quirks', but once sorted they can be very reliable with regular maintenance. I've put 23,000 mostly trouble free miles on mine in the last ten years, suffering only a broken throttle cable and a failed point set (neither a Lotus specific failure, and both easily sorted on the roadside), which I consider pretty good for any 50 year old, un-restored car. If you do sell your Europa, I hope we will see you return with another. Cheers.
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Hello all,
I am a pretty realistic person, and dont ever expect any older car to be like new, and anticipate
some
required
tinkering. This particular car was just supposed to be something other than what it truly was.
If I had seen it in person i would have likely passed on it, even at a significantly less than what i paid for it.
I have sold several cars on BAT, more expensive than this car, and pride myself on anyone who gets a car from me will say "better than i expected"
Anyway i will need to get this sorted out more so i dont get completely destroyed.
And of course will disclose the issues.
Being on this forum and seeing fellow members cars, and the quality of the work, helped swayed me to part ways with this car.
Bda or Jbcollier photo galleries are the way i would want a car done. They are done the way my race cars are done. Quality, durabilty, appropriate engineering, and asthetically pleasing.
Was just seeing an ad for an outfit in California selling body and chassis on Ebay.
Their ad says they will build you a lEuropa to your specs. The did a hayabusa powered europa, and several other drivetrains.
Anyone know more about them?
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Thank you for the very nice words about my build! To mention my car in the same sentence as JB's is an honor.
I have seen ads on ebay from them before but I don't know anything specific about them. They seem to know what they're doing from looking at their website. I don't think their seat frame thing is worthwhile on a street car but on a race or track car, it might be worthwhile. They certainly seem to have a lot of good stock parts. I think you could do a lot worse than use their bits as a starting point of a fresh build. Their description of the body and frame seem very good and most of the parts seem to be blasted so they'll be ready for paint.
I don't know all that needs to be done for your car but I would think that in terms of getting a drivable car, you would be money and time ahead to press on with yours but you know what you want in the end and have a reasonable idea of what it will take to get you there so I won't say more.
Whatever you do, I hope you keep us informed of your progress! We all love build stories (with lots of pictures)!
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I went back to the BAT listing and looked carefully at every pic.
With FI and AC that engine is at least 8# in a 5# bag!
I have to wonder if it would be feasible to modify the head and one cam to provide a rear drive to the alternator as original to Europa's?
Seeing a notched frame for alternator clearance made me wince.
I can see why there is so little adjustment.
Perhaps a physically smaller alternator may be possible for more adjustment?
If it were me I would probably also find a smaller muffler, but I'm the guy who has been know to run strait pipes.
I know these engines are popular, do we have anyone else who has fit one more successfully?
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The 4AGE is not a common swap but there are several out there. Several years ago, a gentleman by the name of John Pels made up kits for the conversion. I would be very surprised if the DPO didn’t use one. I’m not terribly familiar with them but I don’t think anybody drove the alternator of a cam shaft. There are some pictures on the lotuseuropa groups.io list that might answer more questions.
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Polopharm - the ad you saw was from this outfit - https://aandbpde.com/ - right? They've been advertising their own brand of radical Europa restomod for some years. I think I would want to hear directly from a happy customer or two first before asking them to re-engineer my car.
Detlef and Jason Claudius are also in the LA area - https://lotuspbc.com/ - and it seems they do good work. It might be worth making an enquiry with them.
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Hi, trying to sort some of the nagging little issues that annoy me, prior to sale
Are sun visors hard to come by? This car has none.
What was original headliner material?
was stock color if it had black inrerior?
The side view mirrors are both cracked and useless.
. I assume pulling door panels is straight forward?
Thanks
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Hi, trying to sort some of the nagging little issues that annoy me, prior to sale
What was original headliner material?
was stock color if it had black inrerior?
Off white/cream. New ones available from Banks/Lotus Supplies.
To fit them, I use 3 thin strips of wood side to side arched like a bow, to hold them tight to the roof.
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Any auto upholstery shop can supply you with cream coloured headliner in a similar pattern to the stock Europas. You can get it with a thin foam backing that is easily glued in place.
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Hi, trying to sort some of the nagging little issues that annoy me, prior to sale
Are sun visors hard to come by? This car has none.
What was original headliner material?
was stock color if it had black inrerior?
The side view mirrors are both cracked and useless.
. I assume pulling door panels is straight forward?
Thanks
Most people make their own visors covering rigid foam with vinyl. I would look to Lotus Supplies , SJ Sportscars, and r.d. enterprises for reproductions.
As I remember, the headliner was white and padded vinyl but that was a long time ago. I doubt you’d loose points for not being original here.
The original mirrors were chrome Vitaloni Sebring mirrors. The cover was pot metal. Those are difficult to find. You can get chrome plated plastic versions made by Vitaloni.
Pulling the door cards off is straightforward. You’ll have to remove the “bezel” around the door handle. Push the top one up and the bottom one down.
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Hi, trying to sort some of the nagging little issues that annoy me, prior to sale
You’ll have to remove the “bezel” around the door handle. Push the top one up and the bottom one down.
Be careful the black plastic becomes very brittle with age.
I use a wide flat bladed screwdriver to ease the doorcard away back from the black plastic bezel.
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If you peel off the black fake leather behind the inner door handle lever you can access the three screws that hold the handle on to the bracket. If you then loosen them the chrome inner section of the handle moves out and you can slide the plastic outer pieces out with no stress.
I drilled out the holes for the fixing screws in the metal bracket and fitted rivnuts. I then used flat headed machine hex screws when putting it back together. This meant I could use longer screws and not worry about the metal plate things the original screws fit into falling off if I slackened the screws too much. I bought some sticky back magnetic sheet and a sample of the black fake leather. I then cut these to size so it would fit under the door release handle. I cut a hole in the magnetic sheet first to clear one of the screw heads, as this is raised compared to the other two, before I stuck the pleather to it. This can now be easily removed if required without having to peel off and re-glue.
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Thanks for the tips. My car has no hardware for sun visors. By making them does that mean finding ones from other car that fit? How is the hardware attached to roof?
The hinges on my engine cover, actually the part on the car, not the cover, are loose, I assume they are bonded on? If so what product is best? Thank you
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Short answer: the sun visors pivot on a bar attached over the top of the door. The bar bends around to the front. So you can only fold the visor down in front, not swing it around to the side.
The engine lid hinges on the body side are attached with a nut apiece. You can access it by pulling the upholstery behind the seat forward and reaching under the lower edge of the rear window.
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I hope that you will obtain another Europa a bit nearer to stock so easier to maintain.
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Hello BDA,
I just make a 4AGE engineswap to my Europa with a Spyder chassis.
I get the adaptor plate of Mr. Pels and I am very satisfied.
I make an alternator drive to my car (which is not running yet).
Here are some pictures.
Best regards Ralf from Germany
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This is the bracket for the pulley
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And this is the TOYOTA 4AGE engine in the spyder chassis
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Very nicely done! :welder:
I think the Lotus Big Valve cam cover is a nice touch!
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Finally a leak free Lotus!
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Nice work!!
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Hello BDA,
I just make a 4AGE engineswap to my Europa with a Spyder chassis.
I get the adaptor plate of Mr. Pels and I am very satisfied.
I make an alternator drive to my car (which is not running yet).
Here are some pictures.
Best regards Ralf from Germany
My apologies!! I didn't notice that you were a new poster! Here's your :Welcome:
Glad to have you aboard! Keep those pictures and posts about your car coming!
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I think some of us need more detail on the alt pulley modification.
Maybe Polopharm can save his car?
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Wow that looks great but....I am very confused. My alternator, water pump etc are all on the front side of the engine closest to the rear bulkhead. .How are you driving the pulleys?
What was required to modify the valve cover to fit? That looks great!!!
I wish my car was built with a tenth of the quality and attention to detail that you have.
So yes I am super interested in the details. Amazing how putting the pulleys on the back and the valve cover swap really makes it look stock.
Thank you!
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On closer look I see the cam driving the pulley. How does that effect power? Rev's ?
Are you interested in selling the brackets and pulleys and all of the custom pieces that you made? I will happily buy them from you right away. Including a valve cover. Your car looks great!
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Thanks,
I made a post how I make the drive under 'GARAGE' http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=5532.0
At my car I will use an electric waterpump with controler, so the pulley at the front will not drive anything.
I expect power and revs of the alternator like in the 2CV. I needed to make a compromies not to get to much high revs to the alternator, because my 4AGE can make much higher revs than a 2CV. But if Iwill cruise I will have lower revs than a 2CV which need full throttle many times.
I get a pulley which will rev the alternator at the half revs of the camshaft (compared to crankshaft) litle slower than at the same rpm of the 2CV.
And at high revs (I make the setup of this engine mounted in a Celica were it easy runs to limiter at 9200rpm) the alternator has higher revs than in the 2CV.
The valve cover is not a modified Lotus part it is a homemade one. It did not use the Toyota gaske, it is sealed with silicone.
I don't have mashinery to make one more cover. Milling the planar surface and drilling the eight bores a friend of me made who has a big milling maschine.
All the mashining I make with 'simple' and homemade tools which takes realy a lot of time to get the precision I like. And I don't have the time to do it again.
If you know somebody who has a CNC Milling maschine and a 3D mesuring equipment I can give you one casting of the bracket and the valve cover.
But shipping to US from Germany is quiet expensive and I don't know if your coustom accept it to import this castings.
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This is a picture inside the foundery who cast me the cover. I made some more covers because I don'tr know if I destroy some at the mashining.
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Ralf, please write a post about how you do the aluminum casting. That sounds fascinating.
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I'd like to see that too! Watching the documentary about the Britten motorcycle, John Britten casts his own engine block in his garage. I wouldn't suggest it is simple or easy but I wonder if it is easier than we expect.
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I do a little casting.
The actual melt and pour is the easy part.
The pattern is the real work.
I like Lost Wax casting but my setup cannot do anything that large.
Ralf sent it out to a casting shop but as I understand he did make his own pattern.
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WOW! 8)
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I just found out that you can 3D print in wax for lost wax casting. Is that what you do? I would think an inexpensive 3D printer and some casting sand and you'd pretty much be in business.
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Hello,
I made a 3D model and made a 3D print of the inside and outside and fixed these to plates to make a sandcasting.
Lost wax casting for parts like the valve cover ist to expensive in Germany.
For my Lotus Seven S1 I am going to make a Lucas style injection and only the little housing of this injection cost me in lost wax casting Euro 150.-
The next days I will start to write about how I made the cover.
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The mold looks like this.
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this
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I've only been making simple parts.
Sometimes I can use an original part and Oil Sand.
Others I hand carve what I need from wax.
One advantage of wax is that you can assemble the pattern in pieces if it is complicated.
Have not bought a 3D printer yet.
In the US we usually just CNC almost everything.
No longer have any CNC tools :( but I do have a DRO on the mill.
Slow, but if you plot your points you can pretty much do the same work.
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Ralf,
Hats off to you :trophy: :huh:
Im very impressed and ready to start melting down some aluminum. i need a crossflow and a inline valve cover.
dakazman
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Hello,
I start to make a post 'BigValve style valve cover for TOYOTA 4AGE 16V engine' at 'Garage' where I show how the cover was made.
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Long time since last post, have been lurking in the background. We pulled the head today, cylinders have evidence of at least one blown head gasket as they are deeply pitted. My engine thinks it was blown several times before. ( i drained the coolant and added mystery oil to prevent rust)Too far gone to just hone. So rather than do to someone else what was done to me....block and head both off to machine shop.
We will take the opportunity to re fabricate the slave cylinder set up, and my mechanic is dead set on improving the shift lever feel- ie make it so it doesn't feel like you are pulling a stick thru clay.
Also going to fabricate new brackets for alternator and compressor.
And have the resident fabricator see what he can do to improve pedal set up.
Oh and with car on a lift you can see where someone tried to jack the car with the oil pan!!
So I guess when this work is complete I can decide if I keep it or sell it. At least this way I can sell with a clear conscience, and perhaps not lose my shirt if I relist on BAT.
Maybe the car will turn out to be what I expected when I bought it!!
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Man! You really have been through the ringer on this car! I really feel so badly for you! I should have been a nice car. It can be when put together correctly but I can understand if you decide you want to cut your losses. Hopefully, what you do will make it what it should have been and you'll want to keep it.
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I think Ralf stated he has spares of the castings to replicate what he did for his Alternator and Cam Cover.
Definitely a PITA to do, but the result might be worth it since you are already in this deep.
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I love the look of Ralfs set up, if he had the parts on the shelf for sale - I would have them!
We are doing remote water pump, using those bolt holes to mount the alternator butter. But it will stay on the wrong side of the engine! I got some elise/toyota bits to add a few lotus badges to the engine, the elise oil cap has an emblem on it as does the spark plug cover, so while not stock looking, it will have some Lotus branding.
Block and head are at machine shop, and we are working on the clutch hydraulics. Going with a similar set up to Colliers.
I was the one that bought the aluminum engine cover grills off ebay. Will let everyone know how they look when they arrive.
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Hi all I tried to search this but to no avail. Is there a parts list to add 2 struts to the engine cover in place of the prop rod. I hate using it. Makes me very nervous. The sagging is also not very sexy.
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Yes! First, a pro tip: bookmark this page (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/index.htm). It is the greatest amount of information on Europas and popular mods anywhere. Of particular interest to your request is this link (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/body/struts/hoodproject.html). It should be noted that Lotus Supplies sells a kit (https://www.lotus-supplies.com/parts/bodywork/fittings-bodywork/engne-cover-auto-lift-kit/). r.d. enterprises (http://rdent.com/) probably does also. They used to but no longer list it on their website. I would not be surprised to learn that DBE (209-754-5802) also sells a kit but you’ll have to call them.
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I have fitted the kit sold by Banks/Lotus supplies to 7 Europas.
They work very well, but drilling the holes for the long 1/4" bolts can be a challenge, and you may need to use 1/2" longer bolts, as they can go through the seat belt bracing bars from the seat belt reels to the rear shocker top mounting.