Bleeding brakes...

[Steve_Lindford]

Any advice on this?? English TC with single line system. With the master cylinder in the front but the servo at the back - Im not sure which order to go round the wheels. Someone has already told me I will be wasting my time trying the traditional method of pumping the pedal - as the servo is so high - and that I need to pump it through.

Steve

[BDA]

With all the twists and turns in the brake lines, it's easy for air to get trapped.

There are pressure bleeders that are good (https://smile.amazon.com/Motive-Products-0100-European-Bleeder/dp/B0002KM5L0/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1476461272&sr=1-1&keywords=pressure+bleeder - you get adapters for different M/C openings). You might  get away without using a pressure bleeder, but you MUST put a hose on the bleed nipple that goes into a bottle of fluid no matter how you do it. You can get bottles setup for this purpose from car parts stores or Amazon (https://smile.amazon.com/Genesis-GA3075-Cable-Bleeder-Bottle/dp/B000W7F2GI/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1476461691&sr=1-1&keywords=brake+bleeder+bottle). Back in the old days, we used a coke bottle and a plastic tube.

When you bleed brakes, the rule is to start at the brake that is farthest away from the M/C. That would be the passenger front, then the driver front, passenger rear, then driver rear.

[Steve_Lindford]

So are you calling the servo (booster) the master cylinder??  I have drivers side on the right and passenger on left being in the UK...

[BDA]

The brake line goes from the M/C to the booster and from there to a five way union and then to the calipers and wheel cylinders. So the path for the front brakes is from the front of the car at the M/C to the rear to the booster and then to the front again to the calipers. That makes the front brakes the furthest away from the M/C so they should be bled first. The passenger's caliper is further from the M/C than the driver's caliper, so that should be the first.

The terms "passenger" and "driver" are relative and translate to UK or US cars.

[Steve_Lindford]

OK Got it - thanks...

[BDA]

Let us know if you have any problems.

[Steve_Lindford]

Ive ordered a system that uses pressure from one of the tyres - so will see how that goes. Not sure all Europas had servo in the back - and previous receipts say it is a replacement from an Elan - altho I doubt it will make a difference to what we have been discussing...

[BDA]

I'm not sure why bleeding the brake furthest from the M/C is better (presumably because of some dynamic at junction points), but it's always been the rule I've heard so I follow the rule.

You're correct that some Europas did not come with boosters. I think TCs did and maybe some S2s. Somebody else here might know or you could check parts manuals, but I suspect that the Elan and Europa shared the same booster. Having or not having a booster doesn't make any difference, the routing of the brake lines is the difference according to the rule.

[FranV8]

Hi there.  The booster in the twin cam is smaller than the Elan +2 one, quite significantly.  I recently bought a Lockheed replacement and had to swap it.  Found the difference after trawling through many Girling-Lockheed equivalent charts...

Bleeding, I would say it probably doesn't matter the order, furthest first but I'd probably try and do 2 laps of the system so any air pushed past a junction that found itself hiding up a previously bled section is removed.

[Grumblebuns]

Here's a link for the single circuit TC brake system.

http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/tcparts/j/ja.htm

Just be careful you don't inadvertently empty out the reservoir with a power bleed system, especially with the smaller reservoirs of the single circuit master cylinders. It's very easy to do, even with the larger, tandem system MCs.

[Steve_Lindford]

BDA - When I said - some Europas dont have a servo at the back - I meant that I believe some have them in the front. Here is mine - there is an indication from some old paperwork that it might come from a Plus 2...

[BDA]

That's an aftermarket Lockheed booster. You can see the mounting holes from the original Girling booster. I'm not familiar enough with Plus 2s to say what boosters they had originally, I suspect  all original boosters were Girling units, though.

I'm not aware of any Europas that had a booster in the front. I know TCs pretty well, though I am constantly learning new things about them, I am far less familiar with S2s and S1s. It think I remember many years ago I read about a guy who put a Japanese truck M/C complete with booster on a Europa, I wouldn't trust that memory. As far as original setups go, it seems highly unlikely they would run a vacuum line all the way to the front of the car.

[jbcollier]

No booster on an S1.

[Runningwild]

Banks sell a front mounted booster for the Europa. They sent me one by mistake when I ordered the twin cylinder pedal assembly

[Steve_Lindford]

I bought one of these to bleed the brakes -

http://www.gunson.co.uk/product/G4062/

It uses pressure from tyre to push fluid through. The instructions suggested 10psi - but after reading a review on the internet where someone had fluid spray over the car - I opted for 8psi and covered the car near the master cylinder. It took me 4 attempts in the end - and I got more confident and took the pressure up to 13psi - and also pressed the pedal to assist (which they recommend).

I had quite a few leaks on new joints I had fitted where I was too worried about tightening too much and stripping the threads.

Now on to the handbrake. Does anyone with the traditional brake set up have one that actually works?? Is the only way to get one to pass the British MOT test a bribe?? What I can't understand is how the cable seems to be tight at the rear - but have slop in the tunnel or at the front of the system. Could it be the weight of the long length of cable hanging down?? It seems to me because the pivot part at the front does not rotate from its centre -there is less movement at the brakes than at the handle. If this ratio could be changed there would be some hope of getting a handbrake that works.

I also have a problem with the handbrake ratchet which I haven't sussed out yet. I seem to have to twist the handle anti-clockwise to twist off - yet I feel it should be the other way round. It is the type without the button. It seems to have problems staying up - and tricky to push right down also...

Steve