Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: HelpMyLotus on Wednesday,September 28, 2016, 03:11:35 AM
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Hello Europa Community.
My name is Mark Looman. In 1987 my dad and I traded a 71 mini for a 73? Lotus Europa in Detroit. Then it was white with gold stripes. My dad and I restored the car to Black and Gold. I was just 16 and just got my license. I drove the car much more than my dad did, including to my senior prom in 1989. Later that year my dad was driving on a banked corner with a guard rail. There was an access road on the top of the curve where a truck pulled out because she couldn't see him. He hit the back of the truck with the left corner and sheared off the top of the fender. The car was traded to Hank Beachy in Mattawan Michigan as my dad was no longer insurable in the car. (this is what I recall). The car sat until 2001 in Hank's possession where he fixed the bodywork and got it back to working condition but never titled or drove it. In 2001 approx it was sold to another friend who I kept in contact with. He did some suspension work and minor upgrades. In September of 2016 the car was purchased and moved to a friend's farm where it now resides in it's own garage, ready to be worked on. The title still has my dad's signature and address as the original holder. Below is my comprehensive list of questions.
1. The VIN on the title says 1973 Lotus Europa 742735R. From what I gather that means it's a 1973, but the title starts with a 74 and the build on the door says 10/72? The plate in the bonnet says 72102735R. (I will post on the registry soon)
2. The car was WHITE with gold stripes at purchase in 1987. Did they make a Special in White/Gold?
3. The emblems on the car say Europa Special, the valve cover says Lotus Big Valve. The carbs are Stromberg. Is it a Special or just a Twin Cam?
4. The car ran when it was sold to each person but won't fire right now. It turns over and starts to make oil pressure but we are getting no spark. I haven't tinkered with it much once it was moved. I need to test a bunch of the wiring as the previous owner said there are issues.
5. I'm no professional but I have a 1967 Austin Cooper S that I've completely rebuilt the motor. I'm not new to Lucas or British engineering. (Yes the Cooper S is genuine with a heritage certificate)
6. The brakes are said to be removed on the front and rotors replaced with Spit GT6. Is this possible? Are the calipers the same (I need to source them if so).
7. Everything above is honest and true to what I recall. Please help me decode and decipher what I have so I can get it on the road as soon as possible. As my handle says, please Help My Lotus!
Thank you in advance. I plan to haunt this forum as often as possible. Pictures of every stage to come.
P.S. I have the workshop manual with the car.
Sincerely,
Mark Looman
Ada, Michigan
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74 is the Lotus mark or type number. All TCs and TCSes are type 74. I have a 72 TC, 74/2345.
Your car was made in October 1972, it is a 1973 model.
Yes to White with gold stripes.
It is most likely a TCS. Photos would help, particularly the dash. Easy way to tell, though, is to look at the rear
Suspension hub carrier, the aluminium piece to which springs etc. attach. If Left and Right are cast in the rear-facing sides, it's TC. How many speeds in the gearbox?
Brake modification sounds OK. The uprights and brakes (front) are straight out of the Triumph parts bin.
Sounds like you have a great car. Best of luck, keep us up to date!
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The car has the Renault 5 speed trans. What would I look for on the dash? It doesn't have a JPS number I know that.
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:Welcome:
The Special had the big valve engine, but they are different from the JPS. They were a special run of Specials that were painted in JPS livery (black with gold pin stripes). As you alluded, they included a numbered dash badge and sometimes a JPS sticker on the B-pillar. There were no other differences and since everything else was readily available (my first Europa had the JPS sticker - put on at the dealer - on the B-pillar but it was not a JPS), the dash badge is determinative.
One of the nice things about cars of that era is that they are pretty simple. You shouldn't feel intimidated! Let us know if we can help and keep us informed (we love build/restoration/mod stories with pictures! :) ).
Here is a list of web sites that should prove handy: http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1389.0
I'd advise you also to join the lotuseuropa yahoo group.
Good luck!
:lotus:
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The conversion to GT6 front brakes is not uncommon, however, I would convert it back to standard. You can use Triumph Spitfire bits. The absolutely correct parts were also used on the Mk1 Spitfire (caliper bracket bolts to upright) but later Spitfire stuff works just as well (same geometry but the caliper bracket is part of the upright).
No spark? Check the coil is getting power and then check the points (not easy with the distributor buried under the carbs).
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Hi, and :Welcome:
That sounds an interesting tale, I always like a bit of history !
Brakes.
It is quite possible to put the GT6 discs & calipers on, but they are markedly different and it's important to know just what sort of conversion you've got there. The normal Europa brakes are the same as the Triumph Spitfire and use Girling Type 14 calipers, which have a bolt distance of 3.25". The GT6 calipers are type 16 and MUCH bigger, plus they have a bolt distance of 3.5", so the mounting brackets are different and you can't interchange the calipers without getting the mounting brackets.
The discs are also bigger on the GT6, 245mm diameter vs 232mm on the Spitfire. The easiest way is probably check the disc (rotor) diameter and that'll give you a clue what you've got. Or post pictures ?
Brian
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I have spare GT6 uprights, calipers and caliper mounting brackets sitting on my garage floor. The discs and hubs are there but the discs are a bit rusty.
I can take photos of Spitfire v GT6 bits side by side if it is any help.
Alex in Norfolk.
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Alex: I'd be very interested in the parts. From what I know so far the discs are there. It is stored 1 hour south of me or I'd measure it real quick. You can email me at marklooman at comcast so we can chat off line.
Can the discs be turned?
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I am in London weekdays, and Norfolk, 120 miles NNE of London weekends. You earn 9/10th of FA working in Norfolk, even (and especially !!!) for Lotus.
I will look at what I have got at the weekend.
I will try cleaning up the discs with rotary emery paper too.
Alex in Norfolk.
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Hi Mark, :Welcome:
Great story, small world, I work in the Mattawan area & live in Otsego, so we are relatively close to each other. 8)
Our Europa had not been started in almost 30 years & had no spark, put in new points, plugs, & condenser & got nice bright blue spark.
Started right up after that.
Any car will not like sitting for a long period of time, but you said she turns over & builds oil pressure & that is a good sign.
Should be able to get her running pretty easily...
Need a hand let me know, would love to meet up sometime.
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:Welcome:
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I'm planning a trip to work on the Lotus. I'd like to pick up a points/condenser and plugs before I get down there. Is there an easy to cross reference set I can ask Napa rather than ask for 73 Lotus parts?
Is there an easy, less difficult, way to access the distributor than what I see from the top? I'm spoiled by the mini's being right in front me.
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Don't know if lists the parts you need, but GGLC has a cross reference page.
http://gglotus.org/ggpart/europacr.htm
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Andy got that nice cross reference page for you, but I didn't find spark plugs on it.
The parts manual lists Champion N7Y plugs. The guy at NAPA should be able to convert that to a modern plug. A guy on Lotuselan.net suggests NGK BP6ES or BP7ES. Here's a link to the discussion (http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/lotus-twincam-f39/spark-plugs-t22134.html). The points and condenser should be the same as a 1600 cc Pinto.
This thread might be useful to you also (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1389.0).
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I'm planning a trip to work on the Lotus. I'd like to pick up a points/condenser and plugs before I get down there. Is there an easy to cross reference set I can ask Napa rather than ask for 73 Lotus parts?
Is there an easy, less difficult, way to access the distributor than what I see from the top? I'm spoiled by the mini's being right in front me.
I would mark the position of the distributor on the block, then remove it. Way simpler to service GENTLY clamped in a vice. This also allows for a good going over of the distributor itself, i.e. shaft play, drive gear, cam lobes, advance springs, ect.
I had removed my points & took them with me when I went to get new ones, (to compare the part image on the computer).
Turned out they were the right ones.
& I agree with NGK BPR7ES plugs. Gap .025
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You have to mark the position of the distributor body AND the distributor rotor!!
I put the car in 4th gear and gently turn the engine over until the rotor points straight up. The drive gear is helical so note which way it turns as you remove the distributor.
DO NOT TURN OVER THE ENGINE WHILE THE DISTRIBUTOR IS OUT.
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My advise is once you have the whole thing out, just replace the points and condenser with the Pertronix kit. They are widely available including r.d. enterprises. No more worrying about points!
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There are instructions in the Elan manual for removing & replacing the distributor. Because it's something I used to get wrong, I scanned & laminated a page for one of the "important instructions" that I keep in the workshop.
Brian
ps - another vote for pertronix here......
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NGK BP6ES are plenty hard enough. You might get a bit of fouling with 7s, if the engine's a bit worn.
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New plugs, new wires, cleaned the points, a squirt of starting fluid and if fired up! It ran rough and wouldn't stay running. I put a gallon of fresh premium fuel in the tank and gave it another squirt of starting fluid. It stumbled at first then ran GREAT. 60 lbs of oil pressure, steady idle and revs freely when the throttle is poked. I couldn't ask for more. I put it in gear and let the clutch out and it started to move. The tires are SHOT, like split down the tread so those will have to be replaced.
All in all I'm really stoked. I pulled the wheels off the front to expose the finger tight castle nuts. Seems the PO left them loose to put the calipers on. The brand new discs are horribly rusted so I will have them turned and see what I get. Everything is there except the calipers. I found a set on Moss for $127. Any word on those?
Once I get the brakes sorted and new tires it should go down the road. Next up is figuring out what all the BS is with the wires. Loose fittings, crimped wires, bare wires, etc.
Can't wait to get back down there.
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Congratulations on your car making noise for you for the first time! That has to feel good!
Moss is a good outfit and I have no doubt that jbcollier is correct with the proper Spitfire calipers. You should be fine there.
Wiring problems can be the most vexing. Good luck with it. One thing you might consider is soaking the fittings in vinegar if it's practical to get rid of any corrosion. It's not necessary (I didn't do it), but I think it could help on the margins.
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So are the GT6 brakes compatible or an upgrade? I bought a set of calipers and pads for a GT6 from Vic Brit. From what I'm told the rotors are GT6. I bought the calipers, the pad set and the two flex lines. Are the pins separate? Are they car specific or can I get them locally if needed. When I bought pads for the mini they came with them.
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Golden Gate Lotus Club addressed brakes here (http://gglotus.org/ggtech/europa-brakeinfo/brakeinfo.htm).
Here's an excerpt:
The more powerful Elan/ Vitesse/ GT6 front brake discs can be fitted to a Europa, but it's a complete package deal. Everything between the ball joints and trunions must be swapped... vertical links, spindles, bearings, steering arms, etc. are also fitted during the swap. Before you jump on that idea, read more comments on Europa brake response near the end of this message.
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So are the GT6 brakes compatible or an upgrade? I bought a set of calipers and pads for a GT6 from Vic Brit. From what I'm told the rotors are GT6. I bought the calipers, the pad set and the two flex lines. Are the pins separate? Are they car specific or can I get them locally if needed. When I bought pads for the mini they came with them.
The GT6 rotor is larger diameter, thicker and slightly deeper than the spitfire one, which puts it closer to the steering arms/track rods if you try and mount it on your existing set-up. I think it might just go with some other mods and did consider the set-up at one point, but decided against it.
Because the rotor is bigger diameter you need a caliper mounting bracket to which mounts the caliper further out, but it will go under a 13" wheel. The other snag is that the caliper mount hole spacing on the GT6 (Type 16) calipers is, IIRC, 3.5" against 3.25" of the spitfire type 14 calipers. So you definitely need new brackets.
The GG website that BDA linked to reiterates a lot of what folks have said in the past about Europa braking and how not to lock up the front brakes. They comment about the speed of application of disc vs drum brakes but I think it's more than reaction times because even for the lighter S2 the rear drums only contribute something like 25-28% to the braking package. IMO brake balance is the real reason you need rear discs.
So if your car is otherwise standard then I'd not make the "upgrade" because you'll drive the brake balance even more towards the front end. And as it's been said many times before, it's not the brake size that stops you, it's the friction you can generate at the tyre/road surface. So if you have an S2 with 13x155/80 tyres or even a TC with 13x175/70 tyres then the type 14 caliper is going to provide plenty of power to lock the wheel.
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Michigan. Middle of January. This doesn't happen often.
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You are low enough to see under the fog.
Just keep every light on and hope the trucks see you before they drive over the top of you.
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You are low enough to see under the fog.
Just keep every light on and hope the trucks see you before they drive over the top of you.
I feel safer on my motorcycle than my Europa. A lot safer.
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A lot more visible on the motorcycle, too.
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Have a very loud horn. If you can't be seen, you must be heard!
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Dykes, Strippers, a blow torch and some male and female parts. That's all that was needed, aside from 3 hours of my time, to repair the wiring in the nose of my TCS. I started by just cutting anything that was obviously cut, spliced, taped or tapped into. Every wire that wasn't necessary was history. I even cut off 20 plus connectors that were broke, orphaned or plain old unworthy. I then printed the full color wiring diagram onto 4 sheets of 8.5x11 paper, taped them into one big schematic and started at it. I found that many of the connections were straight forward. Green/White went to Green/White and so forth. Some took some additional digging but I identified them all. Then I ran a new, large gauge ground for everything to feed from. I hid the wires where I felt they were best placed, under the blower fan. I got both side markers, the front indicators/flashers and headlights to work. I identified, but left, the horn for now as I know it works. I identified my blower issue is the motor itself, not the wiring and the cooling fan for the radiator WORKS!. The thermostatic switch is suspect so I left that for now. I went inside the cockpit and started cutting all the spliced BS for a modern radio out. Got all the frayed and bare wires out. Then I just happened to look at the wiring on the window regulator on the driver's side. I noticed a wire at a peculiar angle. It looked broken from the fitting and holding on by the insulation so I stripped it back and put a new one on. THE WINDOW WORKS NOW!!!. Gotta love a fix that is so simple a monkey could do it.
The things I still can't get to work are the Bright/Dim feeds for the headlights, and the blinkers. Strangely enough the hazards all work but no blinkers. I would have thought that if you had one you had the other, but not so.
When I got the car it had a replacement set of column stalks (blinker/wipers). Since the Bright/Dim feeds come from there I may install them and see if it helps. If not, I get my trusty meter back out and start poking.
Either way, I was able to take an evening run around the block (country block = 3 miles) at dusk with full lights on and feel a touch safer.
MAN I LOVE THIS CAR!!! So low. So sleek. So unique. Can't wait for summer to be in full swing so I can start racking up miles!!!!!
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Congratulations on your successes! It sounds like you have a lot of work yet to do on the wiring. The blinkers and the emergency flashers are pretty separate - different switches and flashers. It's not likely that it's the flashers, but you could swap them and see if the problem follows. They are on the back of the dash at the bottom on the driver's side. Given your recent wiring tribulations, it seems more likely that it's another wiring issue.
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This isn't good...The transmission is doing some weird stuff. When you let off the gas, or downshift and engine brake, the trans makes a howl or whine like a bearing is worn. What I don't understand is why a bearing would only make noise then? On acceleration it's quiet.
Yesterday things went downhill. I can't get the car easily into first gear. The only way I can is if I push in the direction, start to let out the clutch, it will grind, then it will go into gear. I messed with the linkage but that isn't it.
Is the synchro gone? Is there an end bearing gone?
What are the numbers for the trans? It's a 5 speed in a TCS.
How costly would a rebuild be?
What level of skill is the removal or rebuild?
How readily available are the parts?
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The whine happens on over-run as the thrust on the end bearing is at a different end of the gearbox on acceleration than on over-run.
Been there, done that many years ago, but cannot remember which car.
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STOP driving the car! Something has come loose and may well be causing damage.
Noise on coast/drive is usually related to the ring/pinion gears. The fact you can't readily select first may mean that the bearing locating the pinion is failing and allowing the shaft to move. You need to pull the transaxle and strip it to find out what's up. If you have never done gearbox/diff/transaxle work before, I'm not sure I would recommend doing the work yourself. That said, it is all in the Renault manuals and not difficult. It's just that you don't know what you are looking at and may not be able to spot the problem(s).
Your questions:
- Doesn't sound like a synchro.
- Could be an "end" bearing.
- 365
- Depends on what is needed. Parts are not cheap.
- It's not skill necessarily, it's experience.
- For 365s? Pretty good as they were also used in Alpine A110s which are very well supported. Meca Parts in France carries all/most of what you might need.
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Though the car wasn't driven to prom as in my youth, I did get a chance to roll it out of the garage and get pictures of my daughter with it for her prom. She didn't go with a guy (which is fine with me!) but she did have 3 great friends with her.
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Pretty girl!
Nice car! When are you getting it back on the road?
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Lovely photo, very pretty frock and daughter, but be careful about any metal scratching the paintwork.
The odd ring, belt buckle, etc can cause scratches, and are a bitch to get out.
Did she get "noticed" with her arrival?
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Update on my rear end noises. So I happened to be under the car and noticed a shiny section of drive shaft. I also noticed a worn spot on the muffler. I found the two had been making contact when I drive. I lifted the muffler slightly and MOST of the noise I was hearing went away. I suspect the combination of deceleration/engine shift/body roll was causing the two to make the noise. It still has a sound when I engine brake but I don't think the trans is about to blow. I plan to drain and fill it soon. I'll see what particles show up. With such a shoddy shift linkage (even when improved since 1989) a missed shift happens on occasion. I have a feeling a portion of a tooth may have caused my 1st gear issue.