Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: ezuskin on Monday,September 28, 2015, 06:48:33 PM
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Hi Group,
Eddie Zuskin
Member yahoo group March 2000
1972 Twincam 2067
British Leyland Green 29(formerly Pistachio)
Currently back on its wheels after another 3 year project, damn thing won't start, think I've diagnosed distributor not triggering coil
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:Welcome:
Lots of people here glad to help, let us know if your diagnosis was correct!
I might as well be the first to hound you for PICS too... ::) ;D
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Hi Eddie
:Welcome:
Good to have you on board.
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I have been using Mark Ten CD Ignition box since 2005 without a problem.
No spark from coil to dist, no spark dist to plugs
Coil shows correct ohms + to - and tower to -
Disconnected CD box went back to points and still no spark
Next will look at points. Rotor and cap seem ok.
I am using remote starter connected to solenoid so that wire is removed so I could connect remote starter. I tried all my regular tricks before when using key to start, Vaseline in oil pump to prime oil pressure, then a little fuel in carbs to prime fuel pump but no kind of spark or running.
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Coil getting power?
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Yes, 12v to coil+ when key on and CD ignition whines as usual
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Hi Eddie, welcome to the group.
15yrs on Yahoo is a long time, no doubt you'll recognise a few of the names on here as well.
I'm afraid my approach to ignition solving on my TC is one of the "sledgehammer" approaches. Back when it was on points igntion and not starting, providing I was getting power to the distributor I'd usually throw out the old points and condenser as a pair and install new.
Sometimes they were ok but going that route made me check for grounds where they shouldn't be any plus of course the new points would be timed & gapped correctly, the condenser would be certain to be good and in doing so I'd automatically see the cap & rotor arm as well.
One other thing came to mind - are you using the original ballast coil or a normal 12v one ? The comment about the removing the wire on the solenoid made me wonder if the wire from the solenoid to coil was still there ? I'm on shaky ground on that suggestion and it could easily be a red herring as I've had un-ballasted coils on my cars for years, so memory fades there.
Brian
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Put a test lead on the wire to the distributor and see if it is earthing and breaking to earth when the distributor goes around when the engine is turning over.
If you have power to the coil, it must be the wire from coil to distributor that isn't doing the right thing, either to or in the distributor.
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What ^ he said ^ - I was just going to suggest checking the resistance across the dizzy as it rotates - either when the engine is turning, or by pulling it out and rotating by hand
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When the same thing happened to me, I took the points out of the distributor, cleaned up the two contacts on the points with emery paper, put the points back in, set the gap, and all then worked fine.
Unless the points are making and breaking properly to earth, you won't get a spark.
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Thanks, I will try the distributor troubleshooting. Even using the CD ignition the points still need to properly open and close to trigger coil. Also I bought a replacement coil but nothing improved and these are internal ballast resistor type coils.
I will soon reveal the dirty secrets of my replacement steering rack. It may or may not be everything of which I hoped and dreamed.
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:Welcome:
I think your answer is probably above. It probably doesn't have anything to do with your problem, but I recommend going to Pertronix ignition. You'll never have to deal with points again!
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
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I have never had a problem with that Mark Ten ignition except for tach problems that I have read still occur with the Pertronix. Did you get entire distributor or just insert and is it the Ignitor 1 or Ignitor 2?. My car came to me with a 70s era distributor that matches British Ford products, definitely not a Lucas.
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I have the 23D distributor, I think. The cap has the wires coming out of the side rather than the top (see picture). I'd bet they make a unit for the Pinto distributor too (I assume that's what you have). I replaced my coil with the Pertronix coil and installed the Hall effect pieces in the distributor. I have the original stock tach and don't have any problem with it. In fact, it fixed the tach bounce problem I had when I had an Allison (optical) ignition. I had a Delta Mk. 10 in my MG Midget race car back in the day - shortly after the invention of the wheel!) and I never had any problems with it either, but then, I had a mechanical tach. I think it's a good unit and it might be possible to to incorporate it with the Pertronix but check me on that.
I think most people have positive experiences with the Petronix. I really like mine.
Good luck!
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I don't know if they do a 'Twink' version, but I've fitted a 123 Ignition distributor to a friend's MGB, and know of them being used on other classics with great results. The electronics are all in the distributor boxes so it looks pretty much like the original. No points and a selection of predetermined advance curves for different fuel quality / state of tune.
They also do a version that's mappable on a PC, but they're up around £500 or so.
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I can get either the Lucas or British ford aftermarket distributor sold by Pertronix dealers for about $200. Either should fit my car. I would spend $50 to replace points, condenser, cap and rotor from my local parts store to fit in a 40 year old distributor which is probably a better made product than the new ones. All maybe a moot point if it is merely the points and I won't find out sitting on the couch with my IPad. Later!
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Ours sat for 30 years, (Barn find).
No spark... Replaced points, condenser, plugs & coil wire...Result, bright blue spark! :pirate:
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My first drive included a snap spin as I was unaware of result of downshift to second, turn the wheel to left and let off throttle, perfect spin in its own length but I did see a lot of trees during the spin. It ended in fuel leaking all over driveway. The old plastic fuel lines were quite deteriorated. The irony was the DPO had replaced the plastic Tee with brass but not the lines. Grateful it didn't end up in flames.
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That plastic Tee is a killer! As you saw, it's past time to get rid of the rest of the plastic lines. You might want to check the oil pressure capillary tube, too. How are your brake lines? Stainless steel braided Teflon lines are nice.
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My first drive included a snap spin as I was unaware of result of downshift to second, turn the wheel to left and let off throttle, perfect spin in its own length but I did see a lot of trees during the spin. It ended in fuel leaking all over driveway. The old plastic fuel lines were quite deteriorated. The irony was the DPO had replaced the plastic Tee with brass but not the lines. Grateful it didn't end up in flames.
Well, that's one memorable "getting to know you" drive :)
I'd have been thanking lucky stars as well with the fuel line episode. I've replaced mine with a combination of aluminium tubing and modern rubber fuel injection tube, much thicker wall and no doubt overkill for the few psi pressure we have, but it feels better.
Brian
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:Welcome: Welcome Eddie :lotus:
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All solved with new points. Could only get intermittent results from points even after cleaning and re gapping so only challenge was getting fuel pump primed. I'm sure I violated numerous EPA regs by dribbling gas from a plastic water bottle into front carb whilst holding remote starter button til it ran enough to prime pump. Forgotten how much I like the sounds of that Twincam. Can't wait to leak oil and terrorize the neighborhood
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Can't wait to leak oil and terrorize the neighborhood
:FUNNY: love that quote, I've got to find some way of using it !
Glad to hear it was such a simple answer with a new set of points.
Brian
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Thanks for the support. My distributor was replaced at some point with a British Ford compatible(Capri, Pinto?). I took it with me to assure correct point, rotor and condenser and both my mechanic friend and the NAPA auto parts guys all just wanted to hold the distributor in their hands and spin it and, what seemed to be lovingly, watch the points open and close.
Interestingly the points and condenser matched V8 ford and fit fine. Had a couple friends reminisce about holding slotted screwdriver in the notch and the feeler gauges in the points and adjusting. until it "felt right"
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BTW, is the oil capillary line the one going from block to the gauge? Mine is probably original! Yikes!
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The oil gauge is electrical on a stock Europa.
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In regards to fuel lines mentioned above- Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe most of the original fuel lines on my TCS were nylon tubing. The tees and other connecting bits "rotted" and failed but the nylon fuel lines seem to have proven very durable. I think nylon is resistant to ethanol and being used on modern cars. Of course if what ever was used to tie them in place fails and the lines drag on the ground.... well that's a problem.
http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2014/12/05/tech-101-fuel-line-hose-what-you-should-and-should-not-use/ (http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2014/12/05/tech-101-fuel-line-hose-what-you-should-and-should-not-use/)
http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2012/11/14/tech-101-ethanol-in-gasoline-and-its-effects-on-collector-cars/ (http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2012/11/14/tech-101-ethanol-in-gasoline-and-its-effects-on-collector-cars/)
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You may be right about the tubing being nylon and the durability of them. If something should happen to any of them, they will have to be spliced (probably with rubber tubing) and personally, I feel better if they are made of something more flexible. I know they worked but I thought the old nylon fuel line on the DFVs looked fragile. I replaced all the fuel line with stainless steel braided hose. I had a lot of it but I probably would have used that stuff anyway because I like the looks and it's pretty indestructible.
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Oil gauge on my Twincam is a line full of oil coming to gauge from the starboard side of the block through the tunnel.
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Oil gauge on my Twincam is a line full of oil coming to gauge from the starboard side of the block through the tunnel.
As is mine, which I believe is the original. I don't know but I suspect the S1 & S2 were electrical.
The capillary from the block to the gauge is also the original part and AFAIK they don't suffer the same problems that the fuel system did. And as has been already pointed out, it was the T pieces which caused most grief with cracking. I replaced mine with small brass ones and also sheathed the transfer pipe that goes between the two tanks as it passes through the chassis.
Brian
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Mea Culpa!