Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: StrawberryCheesecake on Friday,May 22, 2015, 12:57:02 AM
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Hi All
Thought I'd just say hello. Having wanted a Europa for years (a mate of my dad had one when I was a kid... first car I ever stood next to and was taller than) I've finally bought one.
It's a rebuild project with a new chassis and Type 47 body, and a pile of bits. It's missing quite a few bits that will be needed down the line.
I'm pretty handy with mechanical stuff, and have painted a few cars as well, but I've got lots to learn on these - my only fibreglass car prior to this was a Mini Marcos that I bought in about 1990 as a student, which was rebuilt and sold long ago!
So the plan is a road legal car, which might get some use in sprints and trackdays, probably with a Zetec engine on twin 45s. I'd love to use an original twin cam but they're neither cheap nor easy to find. The paint job will be Gold Leaf colours - hence the name.
Missing lots of bits including most of the interior, suspension. If anyone in the UK or Europe has a stash of spares, please let me know. I'm half thinking I might be better to buy another car for most of the bits I need. If I end up buying all the little bits one at a time it ends up being very expensive.
If I can't find Europa seats, I was wondering if Elise ones will fit?!
I understand that the Zetec lump has a similar layout to the TC - guessing this might be a fairly common conversion. Are exhaust manifolds/headers available off the shelf?
Looking forward to getting started on it... first job will be to build up the new chassis (think it's a spyder one) and see what's missing in terms of getting it rolling.
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Hi and :Welcome:
I'll bet most of the guys from the other side of the pond have no idea what a Mini Marcos was, or is..... :)
That sounds an intriguing project you've got yourself, is it one of the Bank's Europa bodyshells ? I'm not sure buying a breaker car is worth the effort these days, apart from a few components most of what you get will need a complete overhaul and probably end up costing the same as buying new parts. And of course you have the opportunity to update with more modern parts such as the transaxle & twin link suspension, disc brakes all round, etc. Personally I'd think Richard at Banks will be your best source of info and parts for such a project.
As far as seats go I'd guess Elise seats would fit, I have an S1 and those seats are narrow. The subframes are minimal and lower than the Europa, so you might need a booster cushion or mounting on spacers. If it becomes a serious option I can take pictures/measurements although I'd also think that a properly trimmed seat for something like the modern Caterham/7 replicas would also fit into the Europa and be more comfortable.
A few guys on here have Zetecs, have a browse around and you'll find some photos of the layouts. LotusJoe has posted some of a zetec in his project amongst others.
Brian
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:Welcome:
I second what Brian said. Richard at Banks probably knows more about Europas than anybody on the planet. And how cool is it that he's in your part of the planet?!
I'd also advise you to join the lotuseuropa yahoo group. There is some cross pollination between that group and this one but it also has a great group of very knowledgeable guys and several of them have Zetec conversions.
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Whereabouts in the UK are you?
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Thanks for the tips
This is hopefully something like the end result.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/Screen%20Shot%202015-05-22%20at%2017.11.09_zps7v393ha9.png) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/Screen%20Shot%202015-05-22%20at%2017.11.09_zps7v393ha9.png.html)
My location is Warwickshire during the week, and Windsor at weekends. Aiming to relocate back to the midlands. Work for a large UK based car manufacturer... that narrows it down a bit ;o)
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That would be a good example to model your car after! (I love the bubble in the roof! I guess great minds think alike! ;) )
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Roof bubble only if it's needed :D
Since it's a 47 body, then it makes sense to paint it in a proper racing colour scheme I think. Looks good too.
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Blimey, Windsor at the weekends, we are graced with Royalty.
Why did they build Windsor Castle right on the flight path to Heathrow?
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:Welcome:
Can't wait to see some pics! (LOVE 47'S)
And I agree with Brian & BDA, Richard is the man to go to for parts!
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It's not very exciting to look at, at the minute... there's a red chassis and an off-white unpainted body...
It's tucked away in an awkward corner of the barn, so here are a couple of teaser shots for now.
Nostrils!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/48EEAF5C-DAFE-403C-91A3-7DE984B1B2C1_zpsjk7rpldz.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/48EEAF5C-DAFE-403C-91A3-7DE984B1B2C1_zpsjk7rpldz.jpg.html)
Side windows are pop-out perspex type. If I wanted conventional up/down windows would I need new doors?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/542AABCB-E1A0-434C-849A-A1EF4BC8E42F_zpso33cruxp.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/542AABCB-E1A0-434C-849A-A1EF4BC8E42F_zpso33cruxp.jpg.html)
Rear hub upright on wishbones. Is this a later upgraded setup?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/3A0EB267-4C06-473F-9B59-8DA8B2C54792_zpsyu41zy8k.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/3A0EB267-4C06-473F-9B59-8DA8B2C54792_zpsyu41zy8k.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/1DD2576D-89C2-49A3-BDF5-242CEF4CC169_zpsrujkhbdc.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/1DD2576D-89C2-49A3-BDF5-242CEF4CC169_zpsrujkhbdc.jpg.html)
If anyone can tell more about what I've got here, please let me know.
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Blimey, Windsor at the weekends, we are graced with Royalty.
Why did they build Windsor Castle right on the flight path to Heathrow?
Royalty? Not me - that's for sure. I was from the posh end of the council estate though ;) Some of us posh ones even had cars that were bought and not stolen...
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WOW, I'm no expert, but from what I can see from the pics I think you may have stumbled across a REAL type 47! :pirate:
That would be beyond cool if you did! 8)
As for changing the windows, just keep this in mind, If you do, I will fly to England, find out where you live & TP your house! ;D (Just kidding)
I would keep the pop outs for sure...
(http://i60.tinypic.com/316x3er.jpg)
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I'm not sure about the nostrils, but the rest looks like a great find and perfect for a 47 replica.
I don't know enough about the rear suspension options that have been around for our cars but my first thoughts on seeing the rear upright was "Spyder Engineering ?". They do (or did) a twin link conversion with a different upright for their own replacement chassis. If that's what you have, then it's another good find because it will give some flexibility with gearbox/transaxle choices.
Brian
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WOW, I'm no expert, but from what I can see from the pics I think you may have stumbled across a REAL type 47! :pirate:
That would be beyond cool if you did! 8)
As for changing the windows, just keep this in mind, If you do, I will fly to England, find out where you live & TP your house! ;D (Just kidding)
I would keep the pop outs for sure...
(http://i60.tinypic.com/316x3er.jpg)
It's definitely not a real 47, or a real anything for that matter. The chassis and body are new. There's a logbook and chassis plate, but the relationship between them.... well, there are celebrities with longer marriages.
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I'm not sure about the nostrils, but the rest looks like a great find and perfect for a 47 replica.
I don't know enough about the rear suspension options that have been around for our cars but my first thoughts on seeing the rear upright was "Spyder Engineering ?". They do (or did) a twin link conversion with a different upright for their own replacement chassis. If that's what you have, then it's another good find because it will give some flexibility with gearbox/transaxle choices.
Brian
Yes, I thought it might be something like that, but wasn't sure of the source. I was looking through the ring binder manual for the rear suspension, and noticed the radius arm setup looks very different to what I have.
Thanks Brian
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Spyder chassis and rear suspension setup.
Body looks great, not sure of the nostrils though. If you want wind up windows you will need new doors. Some one tried to convert my S1 doors to wind up windows and failed miserably. If you want to sell your doors incl windows etc, give me a shout. I might be interested.
Serge
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Hi Serge... thanks for the info. So the S1 had pop out rather than up/down windows then?
I was thinking of buying a project car for parts, so that could be a source of doors & windows, as well as lots of other parts I'll need. I might hang on to the set I've got as well though, as they're lighter if I decide to sprint it. I'll keep you in mind though if I decide to sell.
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S1 - fixed, one piece, plexiglass, side windows
S1A & S1B - fixed, plexiglass, quarter lights with pop-out plexiglass, side window (also known as "fall-out")
S2, TC, Special - fixed glass quarter lights with electric, glass side windows (do not go all the way down, almost perfect laminar flow results in no air intake at speed)
47 - front hinged, rear opening, one-piece, plexiglass, side windows (at speed, these can suck engine fumes into the cab)
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47 - front hinged, rear opening, one-piece, plexiglass, side windows (at speed, these can suck engine fumes into the cab)
Yeah, but it's light and you'll be light headed! A two-fer!! :FUNNY:
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Fumes eh... nice.
My dad's mate had an S2 I think. It had electric windows and my big brother managed to 'accidentally' close it on my head when I was looking out of the window. I need to fit electric windows in mine and return the favour sometime ;)
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So I was digging through the boxes of bits, and pulled out one of the front uprights. They look fairly trick fabricated jobs, rather than stock ones. So I was wondering about what hubs I should add to these - triumph type for originality, or Ford for common wheels. Is it easier to get good quality bearings for one type than the other?
Is there an FAQ around on hub options and suitable wheels?
Bit of surface rust, but they should clean up fine. Does anyone know the source? Spyder / Banks?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/E71C2A04-C673-401A-995F-EA89F1204374_zpsmfhap1a5.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/E71C2A04-C673-401A-995F-EA89F1204374_zpsmfhap1a5.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/2DBA043D-B3F3-41E6-B672-D855E4C2B452_zpsnfg2fkhy.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/2DBA043D-B3F3-41E6-B672-D855E4C2B452_zpsnfg2fkhy.jpg.html)
More interesting bits... there's a great big ally radiator installed in the front end. Looks like a good bit of kit, but I was surprised that it's installed almost horizontally, which means either it needs ducting to get the air to flow under then up through it, or maybe it needs to be at a different angle to help the airflow.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/mikehorsb/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/D98EB486-7DD4-42D9-9DB2-993658B5C4CD_zps7ofi7kyv.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mikehorsb/media/LoadsaTroubleUsuallySerious/D98EB486-7DD4-42D9-9DB2-993658B5C4CD_zps7ofi7kyv.jpg.html)
Any thoughts? Maybe I should post this stuff in the technical section.
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Not going to comment on the uprights, other than they look like low volume fabricated assemblies.
The radiator looks like 'good idea but unfinished project' to me.
Needs some ducting/shrouds to get airflow through what looks like a seriously big radiator.
My S2 is reasonably warm and has a radiator half that area, although can't see how thick it is.
As a road car you are potentially dropping a heap of storage space with that radiator position and the exit via the bonnet.
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Can't see why the uprights should be set up for front wheel drive. Could they be for the rear?
The front compartment is pressurized so you only need to seal/duct the bonnet to the rad. The magic of science will do the rest.
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Any thoughts? Maybe I should post this stuff in the technical section.
You are in the right section, Technical articles is for how to do something, not how do I do something. :beerchug:
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Can't see why the uprights should be set up for front wheel drive. Could they be for the rear?
The front compartment is pressurized so you only need to seal/duct the bonnet to the rad. The magic of science will do the rest.
You mean FWD because they don't have tapered bearing surfaces? I think they might be Spyder kit as it's a Spyder chassis, but I wondered if anyone knew them by sight. No pics on the website. They're definitely fronts as the tears are already fitted, and the fronts have steering arms too.
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Not going to comment on the uprights, other than they look like low volume fabricated assemblies.
The radiator looks like 'good idea but unfinished project' to me.
Needs some ducting/shrouds to get airflow through what looks like a seriously big radiator.
My S2 is reasonably warm and has a radiator half that area, although can't see how thick it is.
As a road car you are potentially dropping a heap of storage space with that radiator position and the exit via the bonnet.
Agree on the loss of space. I think I can probably live without a spare wheel, for all the mileage it will do.
Definitely low volume fabbed uprights
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I mean FWD because of the huge hole and the bearings mounting in the upright rather than the hub, all standard for a drive hub.
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Yes I see what you mean. Looks like it needs a dummy stub axle fitted instead of a CV joint.
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I think they are Spyder products again. I'm not sure because I've never seen any in the metal, but they look like this page
http://www.spydercars.co.uk/lotus-elan-2-front-suspension/ (http://www.spydercars.co.uk/lotus-elan-2-front-suspension/)
It says they are for Ford hubs and someone's spent a lot of cash on those considering there's still quite a few bits to collect.
Brian
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Hi Brian
I was looking at the Spyder website this morning on the Europa page. I think you're right - once you 'tune out' all the bits that are bolted to them, they do look like them. I've got the front wishbones there too, but I think a lot of the connected bits are missing. Are original Europa and Elan front hubs the same (Triumph Herald?)
Before I go buying all the bits from Spyder I'll be digging around to see what sort of bearings, ball joints etc will make it work. I'm happy to pay for bespoke engineered bits, but things like brake discs, bearings and probably ball joints, will all be off the shelf items I'd think. Just a question of finding the right sizes.
I've done some digging on my brake calipers - the rears appear to be Honda items, although the ford specialist next to my barn showed me a pair of sierra ones which look pretty similar. Not checked the fronts yet, and about to go on holiday for a few days, so it will have to wait for a bit.
Interestingly, that same ford specialist has just sold a fibreglass Mk1 Escort shell to a man who's going to bolt it to a Europa chassis.
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The Europa hubs are the same as the 2 seat Elan front hubs with bolt on wheels, all Herald/early Spitfire. The knock on hubs are larger bearings & stub axle, same as the +2 Elan and GT6. I'm not sure how that'll help you though, I suspect what you have will either be custom or Ford stuff.
I would assume from the comments on the Spyder page that the upper and lower ball joints will be the same as the Europa top joints, usual Triumph Herald,etc.
Looking back through the thread, it now strikes me that the guy has bought a Spyder chassis and started to buy their running gear before losing interest or too much cash, and given up. I'd agree that basic engineering stuff (bearings, TRE, etc) will be cheaper elsewhere, but the easiest way of getting it mobile will be to talk with Spyder and pay up with a smile for their bespoke parts.
Brian
ps Incidentally I have Spyder front wishbones & bottom links on my car, they've been there for years and even now still look very solid.
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Bearings should be fairly easy once you have the outer dimensions from the hub upright, and the inner from the stub axles / drive flanges - just a case of measuring carefully. I've used simplybearings.co.uk in the past for bearings and seals on VWs that were 'no longer available' from the usual sources. Cheap, quick delivery and good quality brand bearings available. I have a mate who has Heralds, a Vitesse and GT6, so I'll see if he's got any spares kicking around that I can measure up.
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I received an unexpected present from the tax-man this weekend - in the form of a rebate cheque -so I'm going to start buying the parts I need to get the Europa chassis rolling.
The list looks something like
Dampers and springs x 4
Stub axles, drive flanges and bearings (to fit the Spyder uprights)
Ball joints
Set of ford wheels and tyres to get it rolling (I'm going to go for the Ford PCD option.
I'll probably find some other bushes and bits I'm missing
I have a couple of questions.
What are people's experiences of dealing with Spyder and Banks? I hear lots of good feedback about Richard at Banks, but very little about Spyder. Any pros and cons?
Has anyone got a pile of bits in their garage from a stalled project maybe, or kept as spares, that they want to to part with? I'm UK based, so UK / EU based would be best, to avoid import duty and long shipping times
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Richard is a great guy to deal with but you really need to call him rather than email to discuss any options you're thinking about.
Spyder I don't know about. In the period when I bought my bits from them they were excellent and AFAIK it is the same people there, but I've no recent experience of dealing with them. I've also bought parts in the last year or so from SJS and Kelvedon (Elan), both of whom gave me great service. My dampers and springs were from SJS, if you call them they'll get any rating & free length you want to suit the ride/wheel frequency you're aiming for.
Brian
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Hi Brian
Thanks - I might drop into Southport on my way back from Scotland at the end of the month. I was looking at the AVO suspension kit that Banks sell. Seems like a reasonable place to start when I need the whole lot.
Can anyone comment on the quality and suitability of the AVO kit for road and occasional track use?
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If you drop in at Banks, tell him what bits you want long before you go, as sometimes he has to make them, or order them in. His stock on the premises is limited to normal things.
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Can anyone comment on the quality and suitability of the AVO kit for road and occasional track use?
I've bought a fair amount from Richard and I can say that everything he makes is of excellent quality. If he has or makes what you want, quality is your last worry. I didn't get the AVO kit you mentioned so I can't comment on what it might or might not be suitable for. As Brian says, you have to either call him or visit him - he doesn't do email at all. He can answer any question you have, believe me. I don't think anybody anywhere knows more about Europas and what you can do with them then Richard!
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Thanks for the tips. Has anyone bought anything other than a chassis from Spyder?
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Spoke to Richard at Banks today. I think I'll be doing a lot of business with him in the future!
No mention of retirement, btw :D
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Glad to hear he's not talking about retiring and I'm sure you'll be glad to be doing business with him. :)