Hello, and need advice please.

[Graeme]

Hi
Well this site is a goldmine! I'll probably spend the rest of the day just reading the rest of the forum.

I have sort of acquired a Europa S2 1971. It's a bit of a long story; no V5 or keys for a start.
I'm in Reading UK and the car's in Warwickshire UK.
It's in a bit of a state, but I remember it was a lot of fun some 30 years ago when it was last driven (not by me). It has been garaged ever since, but not started or otherwise maintained. Four flat tyres (no big deal), and the engine has been removed.
I don't really know what to do with it. Either it is brought up to a drivable standard, or I get rid of it.
I'm pretty sure it'll cost many £££ to get it restored, and I haven't the time/skill to do it myself.

I really don't want to get it towed for £50, and surely it must be worth something. So, can anyone suggest my possible options?
Cheers.

[buzzer]

Hi,
First Welcome to the forum. Without some pictures or more information it's tricky to advise anything. First of all I suppose is are you interested in wanting to drive it or not.  And yes they can cost a lot to put back on the road if there is a lot of work to do on it.  However they are simple cars .  I am restoring a TCS currently and have just finished preparing the bodywork, I recon I have spent a frightening number of hours on it! Somewhere between 600 and 800 ...or maybe more, just on the bodywork! So doing up a lotus and not doing it yourself will be very expensive, although I did come across a guy who runs the Lamborghini garage near me that was doing a complete ground up restoration on an S2 in his workshop and he reckoned it was worth it.
The upshot is. Is the bodywork and chassis ok? Are all the parts there, apart from the engine of course.
If you want to chat about it I am based in beaconsfield , UK drop me a PM

Dave

[Grumblebuns]

As Dave states, without pictures of the car, it's difficult to make a decent assessment of it's restorability. Whether to keep the car also depends on your long term/short term plans for the car. If you just want to get the car back on the road as quickly as you can. This is how I would attack the problem and just my opinion.

The first item to check is the chassis. If it's rotted, plan on buying a new one. Being in the UK, you have the advantage of buying a new one from a dealer, Banks or Spyder. Chassis replacement is not that difficult, it's just time consuming and a pain in the ass and probably expensive.

The second item is the engine. If it's seized up, time for a tear down and rebuild. The Renault crossflows as a replacement may be more plentiful on your side of the ocean and cheaper than a rebuild of the original.

The third items are just checking/replacing/rebuilding all electrical brake, suspension to make sure everything works well enough to pass your safety inspections.

Bodywork, you can work on it after you get the car on the road (don't know how the UK motor vehicle regulations are). The last unknown is the missing V5. If it's the same as a legal title of ownership here in the US, this car may just end up being a parts car.

In ending, without seeing any pictures, you probably have a time consuming and expensive task ahead of you. How committed are you? I would talk to Dave first.

Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca   

[cal44]

Graema,
here is your answer.  If you don't want to spend 50 to tow it.......you sure don't want to get involved in a restoration.   Yep..........talk to Dave.

mike

[EuropaTC]

Hi Graeme,

Another UK owner here and welcome to the forum. As the others have said, it's difficult to make suggestions without pictures of what you've got although given the distances involved I can understand that. 

I'm one of those "no problem - you can fix that"  type of guys because I don't like seeing cars broken up unless they really are complete wrecks with nothing left - a complete burn-out is probably where I draw the line.   However the lack of a V5 or registration details could be a problem for the new owner, is it lacking a V5 simply because it has been off road for so long or never actually registered ? I think that has the biggest impact on value.

Given that Richard (Banks Engineering) makes new cars I'd say anything is possible to restore and it's all simple nut and bolt stuff because these aren't complex cars. But they can be expensive in relation to their current market prices so you need to go into it with your eyes wide open.

Brian

[4129R]

The expensive bits seem to be:-

Steel chassis replacement. Haven't done it, but say £2.5k for parts + lots of hours pulling it apart and putting it back together.

Complete re-spray. Say £3k.

Complete internal re-trim. Say £3k

Apart from that, the bits are not expensive.

Alex in Norfolk.

[Graeme]

Thanks for all of the replies guys.

The lack of V5 is just because the previous owner has misplaced it. I think all I need to get a replacement is the chassis number; where do I find that?

Keys! I'd love to have a set. The previous owner has a whole pile of keys and some fit into the locks. Problem is that none of them turn, but maybe this is because they are seized. If I knew what an original key looked like, then maybe I could concentrate on that (if I can find a matching one).

The reason I don't want get it towed for £50 is that it feels such a waste. I'd rather it went to a good home than be crushed.

So maybe £10k spent would put it into a good state (new chassis - if required, respray, internal trim, etc).
If I decide to sell (with V5), where's the best place for this type of car?

Oh, and does anyone know why the rear badge says "EUROPE" rather than "EUROPA"?

[EuropaTC]

The early badges were Europe AFAIK.  I thought by 1971 they were all on "Europa", but as mine's a TC I'm going on guesswork. 

I'm sure you'd sell it fairly easily as a project if that's the aim and I'd guess the UK based forums would be the best places to go.  I think Banks Engineering allows private ads, after which I'd contact places like Paul Matty for an idea of the value on a trade sale if you want to get rid quickly.  Personally I think the early ones are "cuter" than the later TC versions and I'd be very tempted if I found an early S1/S1a kicking around with the original design bodyshell.

How much to restore is one of those "how much can you do yourself ? " questions.  If everything needs doing by a garage and you include a professional strip & respray then I think £10k is a bit light.  People are paying £6-£8k for top class resprays, the paint is cheap it's the labour that kills it.  If you do mechanical work yourself and strip/repair the body then yep, £10k should cover it.

The chassis number is in the front boot on the bulkhead between the luggage compartment and the spare wheel/etc. On Lotus cars it's the bodyshell that is the key thing, the metal chassis may well have a number but that's termed "sub frame assembly" in DVLA-speak 

Brian

[Graeme]

Eventually! I got some pictures. I know they're not great; it's a lot of work to get the car out (as you might appreciate). But here's a first glimpse. It looks very sad 
I might've mentioned that the engine was out. That's true, but it's out and in pieces. No pictures from inside except through the driver's window (no keys).
I tried to take some photos of the underneath, but it's turned out a bit like those pictures you used to get on Ask The Family (if you remember that - where they show a close up and then zoom out - for father and youngest child  ).
I now have the relevant numbers to get a V5.
It looks like it needs a lot of work. Hope my photo attachments work.

[jbcollier]

The air horns in the front compartment right next to the dash vent opening must have made for a very loud horn, inside the car.

Otherwise, it looks like a typical shed-find Europa.  Nothing many hours and $$ can't fix.

[buzzer]

Yes that is definitely a "project" car with many hours required to sort it. It does look pretty complete however.
My intial thoughts.  On the body, it looks straight and the door fit looks ok. The paintwork looks like it's spent quite a time outside  and has faded and peeled (more on that later), however it is difficult to see if the fibreglass itself has suffered from either crazing (cracks in the top layer below the paint) or osmosis (blisters where water has got below the surface). The hole in the roof is what looks like a car back window! Is easy to repair with fibreglass. So it's a strip the paint off job, but may be more if the bodywork itself is bad.... But structurally I would be optimistic.
The engine,  well a pile of bits on the floor.  If complete it should be rebuildable and depending on the state of tune anyone would want. That is probably the easier bit!
Chassis and suspension. Looking at the state of the body I think the chassis and suspension will have suffered quite badly if original.  If the paintwork has suffered like it has the rest of the car is likely to have suffered worse. I have seen good bodies on rotten chassis, but can't recall seeing it the other way round. You need to get to look at the chassis
Interior difficult to see, but as these cars are so simple if it's complete then restorable.
In all a lot of work, that if you are not experienced will be challenging and take a lot of time or a lot of money!
However I would say a project worth doing, especially when you look at some of the project cars up for sale!

Dave

[Graeme]

Hi all.
A little update on this car.

I had a decision about what to do with my old Europa; whether I should take it on as a project myself, or offer it to a good home. My decision is to offer it to someone else as a project. If that's not fruitful over the next month, then I'm afraid it'll have to go one way or another www.wescrapanycar.com Not sure how they'd cope with no engine.

In addition to the pics you can see above, I got some more of the chassis as seen in the engine bay. To me, the chassis seems intact. Yes, the paint's off on most of it, but it's firm when giving it a solid screwdriver prod. The colour is poor. Some taken with and without flash.

https://db.tt/QbSPZnmw
[Above file is 27MB]

The chrome work is a mess though. You can see this in the rear bumper pic.

So, if anyone wants a bargain, make me an offer.

[blasterdad]

I would love to have a '71 parts car, but being on the other side of the pond, (& road) the shipping alone would make Fed Ex stock go up! About all I could afford to have shipped is the ashtray,
(which I do need,lol). Hopefully someone close by will save her from the scrap yard .

[Graeme]

Shipping would be a reasonable $2700 (including ashtray). That's not an official offer I was just interested to see how much it would be.
As you say, hopefully someone will come to her salvation.

[SimonR]

Hi Graeme. I would be interested in coming down and having a look.
you can call me on 07956 624196.
Regards
Simon