Author Topic: Overheating ?  (Read 527 times)

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Offline RacerX

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Overheating ?
« on: Sunday,September 10, 2023, 05:56:26 PM »
Hi Everyone, all of a sudden I have an overheating issue that I cant put my finger on. A few data points: This car sat for years and I've been re-commissioning it over the last year. Its now running well enough to drive to work and short trips to club events. Never got above 1/2 way on the temp gauge. Today its suddenly it running very hot and I lost a major amount of coolant out the overflow tube. I also noticed the radiator was NOT hot. I refilled and blead via the rad bleeder. and installed a new 7lb cap. Still gets super hot yet the rad is just warm at best. My first guess was thermostat, well, I found it doesn't have one. Second guess: water pump. Water pump belt is in place but looser that I'd expect... I can turn the pump without much effort so MAYBE its slipping? Third guess: water pump is cavitated somehow? During my 2 hour trip home I drove 5 min, stop let it cool 20 min and add about 1/2 gal of coolant... rinse and repeat. On the last leg it stayed cool....go figure.
 I open the floor to the collective wisdom.
Thanks! Mark

Offline TurboFource

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Re: Overheating ?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday,September 10, 2023, 06:20:18 PM »
Coolant pipes blocked with rust?
The more I do the more I find I need to do....

Offline BDA

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Re: Overheating ?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday,September 10, 2023, 06:40:42 PM »
I would first look after your water pump belt. If you have an S2 I assume you’ll be able to tighten it. If you have a TC, they are not adjustable so you should get a new belt. You may have to experiment with different belt manufacturers as I’ve heard some say the size can vary a bit. I would also get a thermostat.

Check that your water pump is not leaking water from the weep hole under shaft. If it is, replace it.

After that I would check your fan thermostat. Connect some wires to it, put it in hot (boiling or almost) water and check the resistance. It should go to 0.

While you’re doing all that, you might want to check that all your hoses are in good shape (soft and pliable) and there are no leaks.

In my experience, if there is a reasonable amount of air going through the radiator (and everything else is in good shape and the system is properly burped) the fan will not come on.

My guess is that your water pump belt is too loose to drive the pump and other problems popped up.

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Overheating ?
« Reply #3 on: Sunday,September 10, 2023, 11:24:21 PM »
Hi Mark,

Assuming this is a TC, the last point about "stayed cool on the last leg" might be because the water level had dropped below the temperature sender in the head. You're measuring air temperature  at that point so all bets are off. The missing thermostat is a concern, no reason not to have one there and maybe it was removed to mask a high running temperature in the car's previous life ?

First check is as BDA says, look for rust stains at the water pump weep hole, a sign that the bearing or seals are failing. If the seal goes then it's a serious leak and you can't miss that one. If the engine has been standing for a long while then there's a good chance of rust in the system and maybe that's worked it's way into the pump. But I'd have thought you'd need a lot to do any real damage so that would be low on my list.

The belt doesn't need to be that tight to turn the pump but when you say you can turn it by hand, can you feel any play (up/down/sideways) in the bearing ? It should be rock solid, no play at all.
If that's ok, get the car running and rev the engine while feeling the top hose, that should show an increase in temperature and give an idea if the pump is pushing water into the transfer pipes. If that looks ok then the same check on the inlet/outlet hoses on the radiator ? A slower rate of increase but should be measurable by touch.

After that I'd be looking for compressions and signs of head gasket failure, coolant system pressure, oil/water/etc.  That could account for throwing water out of the overflow but not the cool radiator, unless of course it's happening so quickly that there's no time for circulation.

Going back to the belt, because they are hidden away we tend not to check them as often because, well, you can't easily get to them. But they can wear and snap (mine did once) or maybe yours is glazed and slipping when revved ?

Brian

Offline Sparkrite

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Re: Overheating ?
« Reply #4 on: Monday,September 11, 2023, 12:39:04 AM »
My TCS had been standing for 20 years, I got it all sorted and have done a good 1,000 miles on it but mine has also started to run hotter than normal. Not overheating or losing coolant but still a slight concern. I was thinking it may be related to the modern fuel.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Overheating ?
« Reply #5 on: Monday,September 11, 2023, 04:35:27 AM »
First get a coolant test kit from a parts store and test the coolant for the presence of combustion gases.

Offline Clifton

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Re: Overheating ?
« Reply #6 on: Monday,September 11, 2023, 06:21:33 AM »
Mid engine cars get air pockets easier that kill coolant flow, even with a swirl pot. Coolant will not flow well past air. If you have the cap off, squeeze the bottom hose at the radiator. If you only hear coolant rise and fall at the swirl pot, it's good. If it squeezes easily and you hear air chugging, it's an air pocket causing it.  There's hundreds of MR2 Spyder posts with people running hot with a cool radiator. Some thought it was a HG, most changed the water pump and T stat then realized it was air. I use a vacuum filler to minimize the air in the system but I still get a little that I bleed at the upper hose in front and at the radiator.

Offline Grumblebuns

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Re: Overheating ?
« Reply #7 on: Monday,September 11, 2023, 07:15:12 AM »
You said that you've driven it before with no overheating issues, so this is a recent development. Also that the radiator is not getting hot. Are the radiator side tanks hot at all? Don't know if you have a S2 or a TC but with the S2 you can see coolant flow into the swirl pot telling you that there is flow.
« Last Edit: Monday,September 11, 2023, 07:16:59 AM by Grumblebuns »

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Overheating ?
« Reply #8 on: Monday,September 11, 2023, 07:26:56 AM »
He has a  1974 Europa TCS (4246R).

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Overheating ?
« Reply #9 on: Monday,September 11, 2023, 07:29:33 AM »
-was running fine
-now it isn’t
-pushing coolant out
-no thermostat to fail
-no obvious leaks
-pump turns
-old car with no recent engine work

My first thought is head gasket.

Offline 4129R

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Re: Overheating ?
« Reply #10 on: Monday,September 11, 2023, 10:36:02 AM »
Check the oil to see if it is discoloured by water leaking from the head gasket. Green/white creamy look.

Check the two hoses to the radiator when the engine has warmed out, to see if water is getting to, and leaving the radiator.

First thought, water is not flowing around the system properly.

Second thought, is the rad fan working. I fit a manual over-ride switch.

Offline RacerX

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Re: Overheating ?
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday,September 12, 2023, 03:56:23 PM »
Thanks everyone, a little more info: Oil looks ok, coolant looks a bit rusty but not milky. no smoke out the exhaust. I have the Otter switch jumped to run the fan all the time, but for a while hot water was not making it to the radiator.
 I neglected to mention I lost some coolant when I pulled the transaxle a few months back. I DID refill running and burped the rad but maybe I didn't purge enough introduced an air pocket? My other theory is I have a blockage in the rad, or a chunk of something wedged the pump internally and the loose belt was spinning on the pully? The last one might be most plausible since my last stint on the way home everything seemed ok. I'm going to remove a few hoses and totally flush the system and confirm I have passage thru the rad and that the water pump is pumping. I'll report back.
-Mark

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Overheating ?
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday,September 12, 2023, 10:02:03 PM »
I DID refill running and burped the rad but maybe I didn't purge enough introduced an air pocket?
I've not had problems with air pockets on the main cooling system but I recall once having difficulties getting the heater circuit to work properly after changing the small rubber hoses inside the cabin. So another check would be if the heater is working.

You can always help the bleed process by raising one end of the car to encourage any pockets trapped in the transfer tubes to go to one end or the other.

When I changed some hoses on the Cayman all the Youtube videos showed a vacuum tool being needed to re-fill the system, and that does seem to be the modern approach. You could probably do the same on the Europa if you're struggling, I don't think it's essential but it should be quicker (hence garages use them)

Offline Clifton

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Re: Overheating ?
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday,September 13, 2023, 07:50:40 PM »
I just changed a radiator and used large radiator hose pliers to not have to drain and risk an air pocket if I didn't have too.

Radiator hose pliers https://www.harborfreight.com/radiator-hose-pinch-off-pliers-99704.html

If you have a compressor, this makes filling an empty system very easy. I never needed one on a front engine car but bought it for this.
https://www.amazon.com/coolant-vacuum-refill-kit/s?k=coolant+vacuum+refill+kit

FWIW, I have no reason to think it's a HG as you recently lost coolant and added more but you can have a cylinder to cylinder only leak. It will have a loss of power and sometimes a rod bearing knock sound. I've seen two of these.

You can have cylinder to coolant only leak that will pressurize the cooling system but not contaminate the oil. Easy check is to start it cold and let run for 5-10 second cold, shut off and remove cap. If there's any pressure, it's leaking. If it's real bad, you may have fog looking smoke from water that clears quick and goes away when it warm up. Toyota 3VZ and 7M's had many of these.

Start with likely and easy and base it on what you did last that could have led to it.
Post up what you find.

Offline RacerX

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Re: Overheating ?
« Reply #14 on: Sunday,September 24, 2023, 02:26:35 PM »
Hi All, To close the loop on this. I replaced the heater valve (old one had a leak), installed a thermostat and new housing gasket. then followed the filling and venting instructions per the manual. It took 2 tries but I now have all the air out of the system and all seems well. The coolant looks fine, the oil looks fine, no smoke. In the end I think I had lots of air in the system. It was probably introduced when I loosened the hoses to tilt the engine while removing the transaxle.  I could feel the system belching as the air was expelled during the second venting. Will drive it to work a few times this week to confirm.
 Thanks all.
Mark