Author Topic: Ongoing venting temp solution?  (Read 378 times)

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Offline Bryan Boyle

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Ongoing venting temp solution?
« on: Monday,September 19, 2022, 09:31:06 AM »
I think I tracked down the oil weep on right hand side; waiting for my air/oil separator to come in, but in meantime had put a hose to a catch bottle in the back end of the car under the tray from the vent…but I noticed it had slipped out and the oil mist from the breather was coating the side of the mill.  So, put a barbed right angle fitting in, tightened down with a ty-wrap (for now...ran out of hose clamps), and rubber cemented the breather hose (and clamped it with another tie) into the angle fitting.
 
Spritz of varsol to clean off the block.  I’ll see how that 'quick fix' works.  (varsol residue is dampness you see in the photo…)

Left side of the lump is still dry after modifying the dipstick so it seals in the dipstick tube.  No mist on the brakelight switch, shift tubes, side of engine, etc. so far, so I think I have that under control for now.  Thinking when I plumb in the separator to the intake air box (instead of the direct hose from the head to the box...), that will create enough of a depression in the upper half to reduce the pressure build up. 

When the separator comes in, a fellow lister on the groups.io list sent me a vent fitting for the front of the valve cover; thinking of adding that, plumbing both the existing vent and the added fitting on the valve cover to the separator, running the “dry” air back to carb airbox, and maybe at some point going to an electric fuel pump and putting an oil return line on the fuel pump pad blanking plate. 

Going a bit too far?  If it is...next up is the front suspension and brakes, if this turns out to be a fix.  Missing from the second photo are the steering rack rod ends and new brake disks (left over from my S2 restorations a few years ago)...  Did I say before that I hate oil leaks...and somehow fitting I'm using a B&D Workmate bench (designed by Ron Hickman...) to work on a Europa...no?

And...slowly, as I stamp down the leaks, scrubbing the accumulated spooge off the engine to at least make it a bit more presentable.  Thinking (and talking with some folks on the other side, since I'll have to deploy a cherry picker to pull the lump anyway for regasketing and cleaning/painting of the engine, and a new clutch; mechanically it seems to be in good nick: 40-45 Lbs oil pressure at speed, temps right down the center, cylinder pressures around 150-155...a little low, but sufficient...so not necessarily looking to do a full pull-down) of using it to really get the back end up high enough so I can drop the fuel tanks and install the overhauled tanks and new level sender I picked up last spring.  Have the stainless braided fuel line stock, need to get the fake "AN" ends to dress up.  Pulling the lump would let me get in there and scrub off decades of spooge...and put in a set of stainless transfer tubes and new silicone hoses to dress up the warp core room...lol)
« Last Edit: Monday,September 19, 2022, 09:47:11 AM by Bryan Boyle »
Bryan Boyle
Fall River MA
Morrisville PA
Commercial Pilot/CFII/FAA Safety Team
Amateur Extra Class Operator & FCC Volunteer Examiner
Currently working on 3291R, ex 444R, 693R, 65/2163, 004R, 65/2678
http://www.lotuseuropa.us for mirror of lotus-europa.com manual site.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Ongoing venting temp solution?
« Reply #1 on: Monday,September 19, 2022, 11:01:02 AM »
Fake AN fittings look terrible.  No, really they do.  Trust me.

Be careful with steel braided fuel lines.  Support them throughout their length and route them carefully. They can't rub against ANYTHING.  A loose braided steel line acts like a buzz saw against anything it touches.

I use rubber fuel injection rated fuel hose myself.

Offline Bryan Boyle

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Re: Ongoing venting temp solution?
« Reply #2 on: Monday,September 19, 2022, 11:16:35 AM »
Fake AN fittings look terrible.  No, really they do.  Trust me.

Be careful with steel braided fuel lines.  Support them throughout their length and route them carefully. They can't rub against ANYTHING.  A loose braided steel line acts like a buzz saw against anything it touches.

I use rubber fuel injection rated fuel hose myself.

Yup.  I usually fix them in place with unpadded stainless adel clamps on 1/4" standoffs.  Right now, the solid balance line that was supposed to go through the frame from side to side is missing, and a piece of fuel hose is just strung between the two tanks (one end is clamped off since it was leaking...the side with the sender...so I have a dip stick to check the level in the remaining tank...).  Thinking of replacing that balance line so I'd just need two jumpers from the tanks to the balance tube at each side and a "T" to feed up to the fuel pump. 

(Of course...I could always bring the tanks to my local rad shop, and have them install Real AN fittings and go that route...:)  But that would be over the top, right?
Bryan Boyle
Fall River MA
Morrisville PA
Commercial Pilot/CFII/FAA Safety Team
Amateur Extra Class Operator & FCC Volunteer Examiner
Currently working on 3291R, ex 444R, 693R, 65/2163, 004R, 65/2678
http://www.lotuseuropa.us for mirror of lotus-europa.com manual site.

Offline BDA

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Re: Ongoing venting temp solution?
« Reply #3 on: Monday,September 19, 2022, 11:43:27 AM »

... (Of course...I could always bring the tanks to my local rad shop, and have them install Real AN fittings and go that route...:)  But that would be over the top, right?

Over the top? I resemble that remark!

I don't consider it over the top but I'm probably not the one to ask. Obviously, it's not inexpensive, it requires a lot more work to plan and assemble, and it is more difficult to make changes after the fact - those things and JB's admonitions  are things with which I'm sure you already well familiar.

Speaking for myself, I like to see stainless braided hose with proper fittings. It looks great and requires a little planning so to me it says the guy who did it took a bit (ok, a lot when also considering the cost) more care in putting things together.  Not everybody cares. The guy who owns the car shop down the street who did my baseline alignment doesn't like that stuff at all.

Offline dakazman

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Re: Ongoing venting temp solution?
« Reply #4 on: Monday,September 19, 2022, 03:19:07 PM »
Fake AN fittings look terrible.  No, really they do.  Trust me.

 I CANT AGREE MORE .
   
  Spritz with rubbing alcohol, we use it quite a bit on commercial aircraft. As for blowing off bagged lines, welcome to my ex-world. Pirep ,report oil seepage Nbr 4 engine. :FUNNY: I can't agree more with your oil leaks comment, air oil separator, really ? What are you using for crankcase ventilation?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
 Dakazman 

Offline Bryan Boyle

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Re: Ongoing venting temp solution?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday,September 20, 2022, 01:08:09 PM »
Fake AN fittings look terrible.  No, really they do.  Trust me.
I CANT AGREE MORE .
Spritz with rubbing alcohol, we use it quite a bit on commercial aircraft. As for blowing off bagged lines, welcome to my ex-world. Pirep ,report oil seepage Nbr 4 engine. :FUNNY:
I can't agree more with your oil leaks comment, air oil separator, really ? What are you using for crankcase ventilation?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
 Dakazman 

Reason I use varsol is I have a 5 gal can of it that I picked up to fill my parts washer and had about a gallon left over. 

Ventilation right now?  A hose from the head to a catch bottle.  That's all.  (D)PO somewhere along the line took off the original tube that went from the head to the airbox,  put plug in the airbox and installed that right angle rubber fitting on the head and just vented to the atmosphere.  Probably at the same time as they stripped out the gas tank fume stuff.  I just wanted to catch to oil vapor rather than just pushing back into the intake side...and use the intake to pull a bit of a vacuum to reduce the crankcase pressure a bit.

A/O sep?  Why not try?  If it doesn't work, haven't lost anything except time, a couple #10 rivnuts to mount on the fiberglass, and some hose to plumb in. 
« Last Edit: Tuesday,September 20, 2022, 01:12:38 PM by Bryan Boyle »
Bryan Boyle
Fall River MA
Morrisville PA
Commercial Pilot/CFII/FAA Safety Team
Amateur Extra Class Operator & FCC Volunteer Examiner
Currently working on 3291R, ex 444R, 693R, 65/2163, 004R, 65/2678
http://www.lotuseuropa.us for mirror of lotus-europa.com manual site.

Offline dakazman

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Re: Ongoing venting temp solution?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday,September 21, 2022, 08:28:34 AM »
   Bryan,
 While waiting for your a/o seperator have your tried spraying down that side of engine with some baking soda, sometimes it helps find the exact source of a leak. I use a harbor freight handheld soda blaster to get it into the cracks and cervices. I had a small leak of oil coming from a fuel pump out of the vent hole in my vette motor, that was hard to find. but what fixed it was replacing the pvc lines that must have been collapsing.
  Dakazman

Offline Bryan Boyle

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Re: Ongoing venting temp solution?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday,September 21, 2022, 08:38:45 PM »
   Bryan,
 While waiting for your a/o seperator have your tried spraying down that side of engine with some baking soda, sometimes it helps find the exact source of a leak. I use a harbor freight handheld soda blaster to get it into the cracks and cervices. I had a small leak of oil coming from a fuel pump out of the vent hole in my vette motor, that was hard to find. but what fixed it was replacing the pvc lines that must have been collapsing.
  Dakazman

sounds like an interesting idea.  I'm going to drive her a bit when I get home from my latest wandering around the US for my job...this weekend...and see if I've at least chipped away at it. 

Still thinking that the best route to take (but a LOT of work) is to just bite the bullet and pull the lump...refresh all the gaskets (head, cam chain case, front and rear seals, drain tube, etc), do the clutch and throwout, and maybe replace the transfer tubes and all the rubber hoses this winter...
Bryan Boyle
Fall River MA
Morrisville PA
Commercial Pilot/CFII/FAA Safety Team
Amateur Extra Class Operator & FCC Volunteer Examiner
Currently working on 3291R, ex 444R, 693R, 65/2163, 004R, 65/2678
http://www.lotuseuropa.us for mirror of lotus-europa.com manual site.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: Ongoing venting temp solution?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday,September 22, 2022, 06:05:35 AM »
Do a proper leak-down test.  I suspect some of your oil leaks are do to excessive blow-by.

Offline Bryan Boyle

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Re: Ongoing venting temp solution?
« Reply #9 on: Thursday,September 22, 2022, 07:15:11 AM »
Do a proper leak-down test.  I suspect some of your oil leaks are do to excessive blow-by.

Did one @ 80 lbs after I brought her home (I used a real differential pressure kit I have for other engine technologies...;)).  No doubt at 53K miles, I would probably have ring wear (the valves were redone in 1982 @30K miles by the dealer after the original owner had a burnt exhaust valve)  but I was showing less than 15% loss on all 4 (all the residual numbers were >70)...a little low but not at the stage where I'd pull her down all the way (FWIW, I'd fly a lycoming or continental with 60-70; know it's not the same, but the principal is...).  Probably contributes to it, since that minor pressure loss is going somewhere...The car sat for a few years, so, pretty sure that there was some rust on the cylinders which should be gone by now. 

I'll just keep running it; I realize my 'modification' is a patch on something going on, but will keep a watch on it before I go all jack bauer on the mill when I pull it out.  If I do, guessing a good valve job (I have an overhauled head ready to go) and deglaze the jugs with new rings and big end shells (after mic'ing everything) would be an interim fix. 
« Last Edit: Thursday,September 22, 2022, 07:17:54 AM by Bryan Boyle »
Bryan Boyle
Fall River MA
Morrisville PA
Commercial Pilot/CFII/FAA Safety Team
Amateur Extra Class Operator & FCC Volunteer Examiner
Currently working on 3291R, ex 444R, 693R, 65/2163, 004R, 65/2678
http://www.lotuseuropa.us for mirror of lotus-europa.com manual site.