Author Topic: Air flow questions  (Read 882 times)

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Offline kram350kram

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Re: Air flow questions
« Reply #15 on: Sunday,September 25, 2022, 08:08:02 PM »
Some pic's. 

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: Air flow questions
« Reply #16 on: Sunday,September 25, 2022, 08:55:44 PM »
Side scoops at the lower sills?
Looks pretty good.
Having some trouble comprehending the bottom pic.

Offline GavinT

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Re: Air flow questions
« Reply #17 on: Sunday,September 25, 2022, 09:06:25 PM »

NACA ducts do not flow much air.  One lister hooked his air intake to one NACA duct and the lack of air flow choked off the carbs at high rpm.  They look cool and do flow some air, but not that much.

Curious - do we have any numbers on this?
I've previously calculated the inlet area of the 47/Banks NACA duct and it's 20% greater than the area available from 3" dia trunking.

I was thinking to utilise one duct to feed a commonly available flat panel filter box with trunking to a 2xDCOE mounted air box.
The consideration there was not so much air flow, which as you say is perhaps not much, but merely to access to the ambient air stream. In that respect, a simple hole in the bodywork would be fine.

With that said, the 47/Banks NACA duct looks weird. For anyone who's read the rather long and esoteric NASA article on submerged ducts . . well, I can't see that it's even long enough.
                           
I also wonder if one couldn't mount a counter argument and suggest that a Bernoulli effect might be in play and that the duct actually extracts air due to it being somewhat at an angle to the air flow! I dunno.
I'd like to see a wool tuft video on that duct.

On oil cooler mounting, I thought David A's installation looked promising. (pic below)

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: Air flow questions
« Reply #18 on: Sunday,September 25, 2022, 09:51:38 PM »
Just how many 12v fans may we reasonably run using a standard alternator and battery?
Seems some of us may need radiator, oil cooler, and intake air.
The first two can be thermostat actuated.

Offline Pfreen

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Re: Air flow questions
« Reply #19 on: Monday,September 26, 2022, 04:25:33 AM »
I use a jw coolant oil cooler.  These coolers are small, need no thermostat, and heat the oil when it is cold and cool the oil when it is hot.

This is the model I use.  https://www.laminova.com/products/oil-coolers/complete-oil-coolers-c43
I have a c43-180.
I have never had a problem.

Offline kram350kram

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Re: Air flow questions
« Reply #20 on: Monday,September 26, 2022, 07:13:09 AM »
Here is a better picture of what I did with the under car air duct.  Does seem to transfer quite a bit of air to the end of the  tunnel and into the engine compartment, at least with my leaf blower. LOL. How well it works in actual operation is the question, but it was fun building it. Cannot use the anti-sway bar in the stock location as it fouls the inlet, but I relocated the bar atop the T-section. You are correct, the other pictures are the rocker sills with corresponding openings in the body to direct air up and into the fuel tank wells.   

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: Air flow questions
« Reply #21 on: Monday,September 26, 2022, 08:15:29 AM »
I think I may try to do some CAD work on this.
Cardboard Aided Design.
Wondering if a simple louvered cover under the fuel tanks, louvers down and forward, would work at all.

Offline Grumblebuns

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Re: Air flow questions
« Reply #22 on: Monday,September 26, 2022, 08:34:30 AM »
I use a jw coolant oil cooler.  These coolers are small, need no thermostat, and heat the oil when it is cold and cool the oil when it is hot.

This is the model I use.  https://www.laminova.com/products/oil-coolers/complete-oil-coolers-c43
I have a c43-180.
I have never had a problem.

I forgot about the Laminovas. It will solve the problem of installation in a spot with air flow at the expense of more heat input into the coolant system but it appears you don't have an issue with that.

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: Air flow questions
« Reply #23 on: Monday,October 03, 2022, 08:21:24 PM »
Anyone experimented with Scoops/Ducting similar to this?
Low profile and might prevent the hot air recirculating back into the engine compartment?
Really need my S2 running but not painted so I may do my own yarn testing.


Offline Clifton

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Re: Air flow questions
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday,October 04, 2022, 05:24:49 AM »
My car has air filter in luggage compartment,  clearly it gets some fresh air, not sure how and obviously not great flow. For my application with the 4age and injection, not many alternatives, I guess you could somehow duct air into the luggage area.

When I get back to Florida will have my race mechanic and fab guy evaluate what I do to get my car functional so I can decide what to do with it- keep or sell.
For sure electric water pump, use old water pump location to have more room for better alternator mounting. Change slave cylinder to pull type a la JB.

If I keep car I would look into feasibility of top mounted pedals, has anyone done that?

On my S2, I pull intake air from a boxed in area fabbed with ABS sheet,  next the the gas tank. I've logged everything possible on the ECU. My MAF air temps are always about 10-15 degrees higher than ambient depending on speed. It's not ideal but it's that or the rear wheel well. Non boxed I would be 20 degrees higher. When my car was N/A, it wasn't boxed and I didn't care. I didn't have detonation concerns then. I would worry about air pick up in the back as long as you aren't near the exhaust. Air is always moving around in there, it's just a little warm.

On the front. Mounting a radiator right in front of the opening isn't the best. You will get hot air in the cabin too. I eventually ducted out the hood to solve it. If you need a fan, Spal list the CFM and pressure drop. Run the largest and highest flowing you can. If you are warm at cruise it's not the fan. Click English if it's in German. https://www.spal-vertrieb.de/en/catalog/?durchmesser=305. A 10mm/h20 drop is about .4" H20 and about the max you would see from a radiator restriction with big fans. They list as Push or Pull. Don't trust Ebay fans, they lie on specs. If you have a 4age you you should have a 70A alt. I run a 100A alt and 2 big fans, an intercooler fan (was 2), aftermarket ac always on high in the summer, and a big electric fuel pump. No problem at idle.

I didn't run top mount pedals but made a bolt on tandem twin brake master cylinder mount. If you have a fab guy, I have drawings. The top mount is really probably easier though. If your brakes work. I wouldn't bother. I did it for other reasons. If you want pics of anything I did let me know. We all like to help.

Offline JR73

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Re: Air flow questions
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday,October 04, 2022, 04:28:35 PM »

If I keep car I would look into feasibility of top mounted pedals, has anyone done that?


47’s had a top mounted pedal box, replicas of which are available. Banks also did their own top mounted pedal box which meets more modern race regs (UK and FIA at least). Both versions have twin master cylinders with balance bar adjustment along with provision to run a hydraulic clutch if desired.

Pic below of the Banks pedal box with its lid removed (not running a hydraulic clutch)

Offline bert knip

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Re: Air flow questions
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday,October 05, 2022, 01:27:24 PM »
I made the engine compartment much more smooth, so that the air does not stall in the engine compartment.
Better flow, better cooling

Offline bert knip

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Re: Air flow questions
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday,October 05, 2022, 01:42:47 PM »
As for the pedalbox, I cut the fibreglass corner and put it as much as I could to the left.
So I could move the pedals about 1 inch to the left.
Also went to hydrolic clutch.
By doing this I made a standing pedal for the gaspedal (I have shoesize 12)00

Offline Polopharm

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Re: Air flow questions
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday,October 05, 2022, 01:44:47 PM »
Any pictures of the banks pedal set up in the car?  I saw a europa race car years ago and with the top mount they were able to spread apart the pedals more.
Your engine compartment looks great. I was thinking about doing a similar abs plastic box ducted same as yours. Would love to see it.

Offline Polopharm

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Re: Air flow questions
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday,October 05, 2022, 01:46:46 PM »
Wow looks great. Is it right against the frame rail ?