Author Topic: HP and torque that various Europa transaxle(s) can handle  (Read 779 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline gl6

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Joined: Dec 2019
  • Location: Seattle
  • Posts: 23
HP and torque that various Europa transaxle(s) can handle
« on: Friday,December 13, 2019, 11:34:29 PM »
Working on a project and heard that there is a chart somewhere on the forum that reviews the torque and HP that the various Europa transaxles can handle.

I can't find it - but would love a link.

Many thanks
Greg

Offline EuropaTC

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Jun 2012
  • Location: Lincolnshire, UK
  • Posts: 3,010
    • LotusLand
Re: HP and torque that various Europa transaxle(s) can handle
« Reply #1 on: Saturday,December 14, 2019, 12:52:13 AM »
Is this the one you were thinking about ?

http://www.syer.net/donor_cars.htm

There's a comment on gearboxes towards the end of the page, together with estimated power capabilities. Note after 200bhp it just says "more" then "even more"  :)

I've no specialist knowledge or experience other than standard cars but from this list it seems the NG3 is the one to go for.

Brian

just an added thought, didn't the Esprit go with Citroen gearbox/transaxles when Lotus wanted more power for the heavier cars ?  If so, it might be worth checking out Esprit forums.
« Last Edit: Saturday,December 14, 2019, 12:56:12 AM by EuropaTC »

Offline 4129R

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: May 2014
  • Location: Norfolk, United Kingdom, not far from Hethel the home of Lotus.
  • Posts: 2,493
Re: HP and torque that various Europa transaxle(s) can handle
« Reply #2 on: Saturday,December 14, 2019, 01:12:05 AM »
just an added thought, didn't the Esprit go with Citroen gearbox/transaxles when Lotus wanted more power for the heavier cars ?  If so, it might be worth checking out Esprit forums.

I was told by a Lotus employee that the power of the Evora is limited by the power the gearbox/transaxle can handle, so it seems to be a common Lotus mid engine transmission problem.

They try to use a commonly available transaxle to avoid having to make limited numbers of bespoke transaxles, but the production ones cannot handle the power.

My 5.6 litre V8 pushing out 459 bhp had to have one of a specially made limited production run of 50 transaxles by Quaife. Someone had to guarantee buying 50 from Quaife before he started designing them, with Porsche internals, which obviously can handle high power outputs.

I cannot think of a high output Citroen or Renault engine which would warrant the factories making high power transaxles.

Offline Clifton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Mar 2013
  • Location: Arizona
  • Posts: 646
Re: HP and torque that various Europa transaxle(s) can handle
« Reply #3 on: Saturday,December 14, 2019, 02:18:36 AM »
I don't have the answer on the transmissions but I would question a company or any article that is rating a part by HP instead of torque.  Manufacturers that give ratings always do with torque. You can have a 200 hp motorcycle engine or a 200 HP 70's V8. The motorcycle might have 100ft/lbs, a 400ci V8 could have close to 400 ft/lbs.

Offline gl6

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Joined: Dec 2019
  • Location: Seattle
  • Posts: 23
Re: HP and torque that various Europa transaxle(s) can handle
« Reply #4 on: Saturday,December 14, 2019, 11:22:38 AM »
Perfect.  That's is it !

Many thanks.
Greg

Offline Roger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: Aug 2012
  • Location: Richmond, Texas
  • Posts: 400
Re: HP and torque that various Europa transaxle(s) can handle
« Reply #5 on: Sunday,December 15, 2019, 08:15:15 AM »
The Citroen-Maserati SM was the most powerful contemporary Citoen, and its transmission was used in the Esprit.

Offline JR73

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: Apr 2018
  • Location: Merseyside, UK
  • Posts: 307
  • Banks Europa S2
Re: HP and torque that various Europa transaxle(s) can handle
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday,December 18, 2019, 06:28:55 PM »
just an added thought, didn't the Esprit go with Citroen gearbox/transaxles when Lotus wanted more power for the heavier cars ?  If so, it might be worth checking out Esprit forums.

The Giugiaro Esprits where fitted with the Citroen SM gearbox, as the power increased and with the introduction of the Turbo Esprit even this gearbox struggled to cope - especially due to Citroens lack of development and eventually their desire to end its manufacture.

The 'Stevens' Esprits used various versions of the Renault UN1 gearbox, not just because the Citroen box went out of production but also because it was capable of coping with higher outputs from the outset. Renault continued to develop this over the production life of the Esprit pretty much (versions were fitted to the Renault Alpines which helped spread development costs for higher output rated vehicles) and they were still being used in the V8 Esprits which had 350bhp and 295lbs/ft - which was actually outside the rated capabilities of the gearbox!

The UN1 gearbox (various variants fitted to a wide range of cars and vans) is also a popular choice for the likes of GT40 replicas which usually have V8's fitted - forums relating to GT40 replicas are a good source of info tbh.

There is/was a company based in the U.K. Called GTO Engineering that developed an uprated set of internals to cope with higher outputs, they had various options available which depended on what you required but the key weak areas had been addressed (input shaft was uprated and made as one piece along with improving 5th gear - main improvement was to stop it making its way out of the casing when rolling on and off the throttle under heavy load!) - from memory I'm pretty sure they had a 6 speed option available too....? I know of a few people with the GTO kit installed in 500+bhp cars and they have survived pretty well for what is a fairly cheap option (when compared to a Hewland for example!).

Hope some of the above is of interest/helpful?!

Offline gl6

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Joined: Dec 2019
  • Location: Seattle
  • Posts: 23
Re: HP and torque that various Europa transaxle(s) can handle
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday,December 18, 2019, 10:42:14 PM »
Great.  This is really helpful.

I have this weird transaxle - it is a 365 - I know it should be a 5 speed, but my car was the Team Renault Europa and this box has 4 speed internals (thanks Team Renault !)
I want a 5 speed.

Anyone out there have a 5 speed or the 'guts' for a 5 speed and would be willing to help?

It is a change I would like to make.  I could make a deal, or $, or trade because I have all the spares from the Team Renault Europa (lots of stuff !), I'd be really happy to trade.
Thanks!

Offline jbcollier

  • Super Member
  • *******
  • Joined: Nov 2013
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  • Posts: 5,811
Re: HP and torque that various Europa transaxle(s) can handle
« Reply #8 on: Thursday,December 19, 2019, 06:34:45 AM »
At the time it was raced, a five speed was not homologated.  However the 365 has a much stronger diff so I imagine they took a 5 speed 365 and made it a four speed.  Clever.

Before you go swapping things, figure out exactly what you have.  Could be very interesting.