Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Gary t on Tuesday,September 15, 2020, 11:13:55 AM
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Looking for tires for my S2. I have found a set of Hankook H735 . Anybody have experience with these tires?
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A passenger car tire with a tread wear rating of 680, 70,000 mile tire. These will last 200,000 on a Lotus. Those tire will harden and crack before wearing down to 2/32" on a car this light. They would be quite. I guess it depends on how the car is driven as to what you want though.
These come in 185-60-13
Nankang AR-1 and R888R
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I did a quick google search for Tires in Canada and got this. I have these Kumhos on my Twin Cam and they are nice if you want a good tire but not an all out performance tire (I drive very spiritedly).
https://www.quattrotires.com/dimensions/summer/175/70/13/page/1?
I much prefer the Avon CR6ZZ on my Elan+2 but they are a premium tire and 4 times the cost.
Ross
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I did a quick google search for Tires in Canada and got this. I have these Kumhos on my Twin Cam and they are nice if you want a good tire but not an all out performance tire (I drive very spiritedly).
https://www.quattrotires.com/dimensions/summer/175/70/13/page/1?
I much prefer the Avon CR6ZZ on my Elan+2 but they are a premium tire and 4 times the cost.
Ross
A bit different from F1 soft compound which last less that 10 laps, so about 35 miles.
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Thanks Ross I have done many google searches but did not find that site. I have decided on the Hankooks available at a local shop (a bonus). Time will tell if it is a good choice.
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Look at Coker TIre. They buy all the old molds and manufacturing rights from many tire companies where the volume is too low for say Michelin. Then Coker builds new tires identical to the original. I purchased a set of Coker Dunlop Sports for the S3.
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eBay continues to have a wide selection, search,” 13” tires”.
I wanted the same manufacturer but my Firestone 205/60/13 86h were not available in the 185/60/13 80h size , I went with federals , they seem to have a better water friendly thread pattern.
Dakazman
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Toyo makes several types of "13 tires.
@Dave Richardson :Welcome: Glad to have another Florida Europa owner. Florida is well represented on the forum. Would love to see photos of your Twin Cam. Feel free to PM me. I hope to plan a Florida Europa get together soon.
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Anyone have experience with Federal 595 tires? Much better price than the Toyo R888R, and I don't plan to track it.
Once my car, 4158R, gets back on the road, my previous tires will be too old. They are 185/60x13 all around, and I plan to stick with that size.
I remember when I had my first Europa, new, in 1974, it had Dunlop SP Sport tires. They were great. I did not realize how great until I had to replace them. I got Pirelli CN36, the "hot tire" according to the magazines of the day. They were awful on the Europa. I realized that the problem was, at least in part, because the Dunlops were fabric while the Pirellis had steel.
Any comments are welcome, thanks, John
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Not too many Europa owners could use these sizes, but just discovered 215/50/13 and 235/50/13 tires made by Vitour. Yes they're Chinese, but I have been surprised at their grip even with a 300 wear rating.
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I see the Federal 595 tires on two website at significantly different prices, though both quite low.
Online Tires are are $69 each, minus 5%, with free shipping, but a $25 "road hazzard" charge that does not appear to be declinable=286
Performance Plus Tires are 48 plus shipping, but I can decline road hazzard charge=216
Any feedback to indicate I should avoid Performance Plus Tires? Should I ask each about date code on available tires?
Thanks, John
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I got my Vitour tires from Performance Plus. Swift shipping and recent dates on the tires, but I can't vouch for their Federal tires.
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Just make sure you can see them spinning when mounted. Reject any that do not run perfectly round and true.
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Anybody tried Pirelli Cinturatos? They come in our sizes and were apparently standard equipment on Eclat and other contemporary Lotus. https://www.lucasclassictires.com/Pirelli-Cinturato_c255.htm
Tom
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Nope.
Excellent experiences with Michelin Defenders, Toyos Extensas and the Vredestein tires.
Michelin XAS tires from Longstone were the worst tires I have ever seen in 35 years of wrenching and I started out in a general repair shop that also sold tires.
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surfguitar: I found the Pirelli CN36 were terrible compared to the original equipment Dunlop SP Sports. As I said above, I attributed it to the difference between fabric and steel belts.
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surfguitar: I found the Pirelli CN36 were terrible compared to the original equipment Dunlop SP Sports. As I said above, I attributed it to the difference between fabric and steel belts.
Interesting, can you elaborate on the problems you had with the Pirellis?
Thanks,
t
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With the Dunlops, it felt like the car cornered on rails. The CN36 just lost that feeling. I had a friend who did some auto-crossing drive it with both sets of tires, and had felt the same way.
Sorry I cannot explain it better, it was 40 or so years ago, and I'm 74 now. ;)
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I love my Avon tires. With a hardness of 80, they work excellent. These tires allow you to look stock and handle like they should. I'd rather wear them out then age them out. Keep it British !
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What model Avon?
Back in the day I used to autocross on Phoenix 3011 Stahlflex 205/60 13 tires. Fairly competitive and street legal. (they did need a little trimming to the upper front wheel arch) I would like to stay with that size but there are not many options. There is the BFgoodrich Radial T/A, that is likely to last into the next century on a Europa and the Toyo Proxes RA-1 which looks like it would be a fun tire and OK in the rain. No need to race in the rain but living in Seattle, it is a concern. I also see the Federal SS-595, which has no wear rating and seems cheaper than a good tire should go for.
Has anyone used the RA-1 or SS-595 on the street? In the rain? Is there anything else that would be softer than the Radial T/A?
Thanx
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I love my Avon tires. With a hardness of 80, they work excellent. These tires allow you to look stock and handle like they should. I'd rather wear them out then age them out. Keep it British !
+1 on Avon CRZZ. A fantastic tire and looks fantastic on an old car.
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@RonNPW: I have Toyo R888R tires, 205/60R13 in the rear and 185/60R13 in the front. Living in South Florida, my Europa has seen more than its share of wet weather and they seemed fine. The Toyo site rates the R888R as 4.0 in wet weather and 4.5 in dry weather (scale from 1-5 with five the highest). The RA1 are rated 5.0 wet and 3.5 dry. They are both 4.5 in braking. The RA1 is 5.0 in tread life while the R888R is 4.5 in tread life. For the record, I don't race my car. My logic for buying an overbuilt, street-legal, racing tire was simple: if I ever had to emergency brake or swerve out of the way of something, any small handling advantage could be life saving.
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Any rear clearance issues with the 205-185 combo? I haven't driven my car yet but have the Federals of that size on Minilites and I can tell it's going to be close in the rear. I won't panic if it rubs a little but I don't want to hit a bump and break fiberglass. My TC also has the Special drums on the rear. I don't know if that makes the rear wider, but I'm tight on the outside.
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@Nisswa Collision: I have very good clearance at the rear and no rubbing at the front at full lock. I have the stock factory Brand Lotus alloy wheels. But it is a Lotus so body tolerances will vary slightly from car to car. I know a guy near me that has an S1 with those same tires and he has also had no problems with clearance or rubbing.
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On my 70 S2, with 206/60 13 on 6" wide magnesium minilites, I needed to trim the inner lip of the rear wheel well (not visible) and trim the upper lip of the front (visible). I'm in the process of slightly expanding and reinforcing all the wheel arches. My car is visibly lower compared to most Europa's with the wheels being higher into the wheel wells. It was originally sold in Canada.
Why use 185/60 in the front. My recollection (feeble though it may be) is that the car is nicely balanced with 205's all around.
Thanx for the Toyo info, they look like a good option.
Ron
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@RonPNW: All modern supercars and every 2 seat mid-engine Ferrari since the 1981 308 GTBi/GTSi (205/55 VR 16 (F); 225/55 VR 16) have used staggered tire sizes. The Lotus Elise uses staggered tire sizes and the Corvette began using staggered sizes with the 1990 ZR1 and then with all Corvettes since 1993. The Europa Twin Cam was one of the first sports cars offered with staggered sizes (175/70VR13 front and 185/70VR13 rear). A 205 in the rear and a 185 in the front gives me a larger footprint while still maintaining a similar ratio to the original design. Those 6" Mini-lites give you a few more options than the 5 1/2 Brand Lotus rims. Let me know what you wind up with.
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I'm probably over 6 months away from buying tires. Need to get the body back onto the frame as well as getting the engine running.
I'm thinking the Proxes RA-1 in 205/60 all around is my best choice. It should be better than my old setup while keeping the same neutral balance. I forgot to mention that I have a slightly stiffer front sway bar.
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Has anyone used the RA-1 or SS-595 on the street? In the rain? Is there anything else that would be softer than the Radial T/A?
Thanx
I ran RA-1's on the street. Unshaven, they are a track rain tire. Plenty of tread for water.
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I’ve recently ordered 595’s (not the SS, I believe), it I don’t intend to drive much in the rain. Not sure what the difference between the Ss595 and the 595. In my limited access to their specs, I think the SS has higher speed rating and lower wear number. I hesitated to try to find the SS because I was under the impression it was replaced by the 595, and therefore might be old. Since my Europa Tire’s age out rather than wear out, that seemed significant.
I confess, I’m not sure why I didn’t spring for the R888R tires, since I’m not really sparing any expense in finally getting this back together.
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Michelin XAS tires from Longstone were the worst tires I have ever seen in 35 years of wrenching and I started out in a general repair shop that also sold tires.
What was the problem with those tyres? They seem to be very popular within the Lotus Elan community and are cosnidered as the best choice in the small sizes 145 and 155/80 13. I'm also planning to fit those although they are quite expensive. I'm very interested to hear any problems concernig them.
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They were hopelessly out of round and out of true. Not a little bit, not millimetres out, centimetres! Complete garbage. Paid $250 each for 5 and sold them for $50 each to a really cheap Triumph Spitfire owner. I explained carefully what was wrong first.
Perhaps Longstone was dumping some unsellable crap on an overseas buyer. That thought hardly inspires confidence either.
A few years later we got some "Michelin" tires off them for a Rolls we were working on. Four tires, two duds. Again, way out! Had to pay to send them back for warranty replacements.
If you do buy from them, get them mounted and checked right away so warranty isn't a problem.
Sold lots of Vredestein tires with no problems.
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Ok, that doesn't sound very good. Thanks for the hint, I'll be carefull and will check them.
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Just so you know, I used XAS tires back when they were new. Loved them. No issues.
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I also bought some XAS's way back based on their reputation. People raved about them.
I considered them decidedly ordinary and of a harder compound than was otherwise available even in those days.
In about '79 I bought a set of real Minilites from a local club member with Avon radials on them. For the life of me I can't remember if they were 60 or 70 profile but suffice to say they were lower than what was commonly available at the time.
The grip and handling was phenomenal but over time they went out of round. I have no idea how a tyre goes out of round 'over time' because it doesn't make sense, but that's what we finally diagnosed.
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Belts can slip under stress. Seen it many times.
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I'm reviving this old thread as I just put a new set of sneakers on the TCS. I agonized long and hard on my tire choice. The expensive Avons were out of stock everywhere I looked and not expected to be back in stock for many months. The Toyo Proxes R888 sure look great on LiteraryMadness's car, but I had a nagging voice inside saying not to mess with the designer's intent by going with a non-stock size. There are several rather conventional all-season tires available in the TCS's staggered sizes, but I wanted a performance summer tire. In the end I went against the specific advice of jpane and went with Pirelli CN36, 185/70-R13 rear, 175/70-R13 front. I'm sorry jpane, but I just had a hard time believing a quality tire company like Pirelli could make a tire as terrible as you say, and as you pointed out, your experience was some 40 years ago.
The tires mounted-up fine and are true round within about a millimeter, BUT, one of the front tires needed a ton of balancing weights! I impressed upon the shop owner the importance of perfect balance for the featherweight Lotus and he did the mounting and balancing himself, instead of having one of his lackeys do it. He said the rim was too small for the regular balancing spotter, but he found a workaround. (Not entirely sure what that means, but he seems to know his stuff and was apologetic for the number of weights, but said the wheel really needed them.)
I went for a test drive around town but was only able to briefly get up to about 50 mph, at which point everything felt fine. I had planned a more extensive test drive this Memorial Day weekend, but the weather got real sucky here in the Boston area.
The attached photo shows the weight placement in what is now my right front wheel. I notice the main body of weights is right were the DPO had also put some weights when the old tires were on the car (weights were duct-taped in place, I might add :-\ ) Question for the group: Is this just an artifact of 50 year old Cosmic wheels? Has anyone else had to resort to this much counterweight? I'll report back once I get out on the highway and get some speed up.
Tom
PS - Another minor complaint: The rear tires have a date code of 2020, but the fronts were made in 2017. :WTF:
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The date codes are interesting. I suspect that with 13" rims being much less popular than they once were, tires end up staying in stock longer.
I think the duct tape on the weights is a nice touch. When I was racing before dinosaurs roamed the earth, that was the common practice when the tire mounters balanced the racing wheels. The centrifugal force should keep them on the rim but the tape is added assurance.
From the picture, it looks like you have the Lotus Brand (or some say Brand Lotus) wheels but Lotus Brand or Cosmic I think the balance problem came from the tires. I don't think that the wheels would be that out of balance. I have heard of people who found a lot of weight required to balance the wheel would be suspicious about that and might try to rotate the tire wrt the wheel to see if that helped so I assume he did that and it didn't. If you talk to him again, you might ask.
I'm not sure what the balance problem says about the manufacturing quality other than it wasn't optimal.
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Tom,
I would suspect your wheel. I have one American Racing 7x13" wheel that has always required a lot of weights over the last 45 years and several sets of tires. Always the same wheel. Last tire changer said he thinks wheel is slightly bent. Since these wheels haven't been made in 40 years I'll live with it. I don't get vibration.
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Get them to remove the tire and spin up the rim on its own. Still bad, find another rim. All good? Send the tire back for warranty.