Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: jbcollier on Friday,August 10, 2018, 03:27:17 PM
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The stock handbrake does not work very well. With careful set-up, you can achieve ok-ish performance. One reason is simple geometry. The pull handle is situated that it loses mechanical advantage as it is applied. You can see it quite clearly in the following photos that show the linkage in the applied position:
https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-HTZxsr2/A
https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-vv6RnKB/A
https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-JGVKjFN/A
The solution?
The only one I can see working well is to locate the handbrake pull handle in the passenger compartment, tight to the centre, as they had it in the 47. That should give you increasing mechanical advantage as the brake is applied. Naturally you need a RHD main lever for a LHD car and vice versa for a RHD car.
Myself? I’m pulling the whole thing out and using a linear actuator to work the parking brake. That way I have more room in the tunnel and a working parking brake.
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Costly but a lot less clutter. I’m going to mount it on the Banks twin link frame.
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John I understand where and why you are going this way. But does an electric hand brake meet the letter of the law as an emergency brake?
Gary.
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Probably not though my current Volvo has an electric parking brake.
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How do you do a steep hill start with one of these new electric handbrakes?
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Not sure how that would work. My wife’s new Mazda has the electric hand brake. I’ll have to try it.
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JB , your killing me ...lol .
I love your ideas but I gotta stop and concentrate on just putting the car back together,
For a small car there is an enormous amount of avenues we can travel. I was going to make molds of the body panels 25 years ago but that road shut down. I always say , shoulda, coulda, woulda. Lol.
Keep sharing your ideas , new roads open up daily.
Dakazman
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You use the Europa handbrake on a hill start? You must have long arms! I apply the brake with one side of my foot and roll the other side to work the throttle.
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You use the Europa handbrake on a hill start? You must have long arms! I apply the brake with one side of my foot and roll the other side to work the throttle.
So you cannot use a button brake for a hill start.
I wonder what they teach learner drivers now to pass the test.
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When I first got my car, I took a road trip with a college buddy. I took a week of racing school at Bob Bondurant which used to be at what was then called Sears Point outside of San Francisco. I drove on the San Francisco hills (some of them seemed more like a while with a white stripe down the center!) without a problem and without using the handbrake. JB's technique is best, but I don't think that would have occurred to me before I took that racing class. If you're quick moving your foot from the brake to the gas, you'll be fine.
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When I first got my car, I took a road trip with a college buddy. I took a week of racing school at Bob Bondurant which used to be at what was then called Sears Point outside of San Francisco. I drove on the San Francisco hills (some of them seemed more like a while with a white stripe down the center!) without a problem and without using the handbrake. JB's technique is best, but I don't think that would have occurred to me before I took that racing class. If you're quick moving your foot from the brake to the gas, you'll be fine.
But would fail the driving test.
The heel and toe is a common form of driving in motorsport, but what do they teach learners with this new push button digital hand brake switch?
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But would fail the driving test.
The heel and toe is a common form of driving in motorsport, but what do they teach learners with this new push button digital hand brake switch?
Thankfully, I've never had a driving test that had anything to do with a hand/parking/emergency brake. I know you must have a working parking brake to drive in San Francisco but I haven't driven there in over forty years. I almost never use one where I drive and about the only time I do is parking up a steep incline. Thankfully, that never happens in my Lotus.
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I wonder what they teach learner drivers now to pass the test.
I have a daughter who is 18. We live on the side of a mountain and her car is stick. She is proficient at using the clutch, and hand brake when needed. One of the reasons we got her a manual transmission is virtually none of her friends know how to drive it! They all passed the test in newer automatics with hill assist. Even my 2016 Mazda MX5 with 6 speed manual has hill assist. Like it or not, I'm not sure you can find a new car without hill assist.
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The heel and toe is a common form of driving in motorsport, but what do they teach learners with this new push button digital hand brake switch?
Do cars with electric handbrakes also have the "hill holder clutch" or something very similar on the handbrake ? I'd imagine with modern electronics there's something in there that would release the brake when you pressed the accelerator ?
We had an Impreza in the 90s with the hill-holder clutch and it did make you very lazy on hill starts. (and it was a steep "re-acquaintance" curve when that car went !)
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but what do they teach learners with this new push button digital hand brake switch?
In this area, if you attempted to use your emergency brake during a hill start on a driving test, you would fail.
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but what do they teach learners with this new push button digital hand brake switch?
In this area, if you attempted to use your emergency brake during a hill start on a driving test, you would fail.
So what do they teach learners to do?
We call them hand brakes over here. Some call them parking brakes. in an emergency, they would not be much good.
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but what do they teach learners with this new push button digital hand brake switch?
In this area, if you attempted to use your emergency brake during a hill start on a driving test, you would fail.
So what do they teach learners to do?
We call them hand brakes over here. Some call them parking brakes. in an emergency, they would not be much good.
They teach them the proper hill start technique, I guess. No, on second thought, they don't teach them anything at all. I would guess that just about every Driver's Ed program and driver training outfit in North America since the early 60s (a few rare exceptions, of course) has used vehicles with automatic transmission. Most people learn to drive a manual from their father, friend, or in my case I learned to drive on a motorcycle, which made the transition a year later to my first car, a four speed manual, quite easy.
Almost all of my vehicles have been manually shifted and engaged, and I have never used an emergency brake on a hill start my entire life (and I live and operate in hilly territory), nor do I know anyone who ever has. With good technique there is virtually zero roll-back. Up until the 1980s pretty much every American car made (and including today's pick-up trucks) had an emergency brake that was operated with the left foot, to the left of the clutch. One certainly would have a hard time using that arrangement on a hill start.
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I know when I was in driving school 20 years ago it was uncommon to learn on standard but I did. When I went to hill start with the hand brake he told me off and said that I had to be able to do a no roll back hill start with out a hand brake. Pretty much learned to hold a car on a hill with little to no gas, I think I am pretty good at it but a new car will always take you off guard.
Ross
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I know when I was in driving school 20 years ago it was uncommon to learn on standard but I did. When I went to hill start with the hand brake he told me off and said that I had to be able to do a no roll back hill start with out a hand brake. Pretty much learned to hold a car on a hill with little to no gas, I think I am pretty good at it but a new car will always take you off guard.
Ross
Manual gearbox or auto?
I want to know what they now teach you in a manual car with the push button handbrake.
I cannot think they teach learners to heel and toe.
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I grew up, and learned to drive, in the UK. My kids learned to drive in the USA, so I can speak about the differences. In New Jersey, everybody takes the driving test in an automatic, on flat ground, away from any traffic. It's a wholly inadequate test of driving ability.
If someone learns to drive a manual, it's probably after they passed the driving test and the instructor is a friend or relative.
I taught my son to use the handbrake on hill starts. My wife is German and she doesn't use the handbrake for hill starts, just footwork. I guess it's a cultural thing.
Another funny difference: I taught my daughter to do the push-pull steering technique, with the aid of a dinner plate. Her driving instructor told her she'd fail the test if she did it that way. And if she used the steering technique her driving instructor taught, she'd fail the driving test in the UK.
And while I'm on the subject of cultural differences in driving, I have other British driving habits that don't translate. For example, I check my mirrors before signalling. My wife believes this is completely wrong, and you signal first and then figure out what is going on around you. In New Jersey using the signals is regarded as a sign of weakness. I'll also adjust my speed to let another car merge safely. This often just causes confusion because the other driver doesn't expect me to let them out. For safety's sake I have to become more ruthless :D.
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In New Jersey using the signals is regarded as a sign of weakness.
:)
Love that quote.....
Interesting comparison of local styles.Thinking about your wife I guess it doesn't really matter if you follow the UK "Mirror/signal.manoeuvre" that I was taught or just "signal/mirror/move" that Germans do, as long as you check it's clear before moving out it doesn't really matter, does it ? When you're in heavy traffic her method makes more sense, if you waited for a clear space before signalling then you might never move !
(still smiling at New Jersey.....)