Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: andy harwood on Tuesday,October 20, 2015, 02:27:30 PM
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Well, time has come and I've removed the engine and transaxle from the TC, and have purchased a '01 Zetec blacktop engine.
While I'm at it, the body will come off for a frame inspection. Coolant tubes replaced, and I'm sure other things will pop up.
In preparation of conversion I've got some questions. I'm sure I'll be back with more. (hence this thread)
1. Not conversion related. Upon driving out the roll pins from the 365 differential yokes, they came out in pieces. Neither was hard to drive out. Any ideas why they would be in pieces?
2. Engine mounts. Premade available or drawings available?
Thanks in advance for any information.
There is a wealth of knowledge here!
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I'm told that Spyder do mounts, but I have no idea on the costs - likely to be handsomely priced I suspect.
I intend to make my own unless something crops up for sensible money.
Just started on this journey myself.
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From what I've read, broken roll pins indicate improper shimmed transaxle output shafts to the driveshaft. Tons of great info in the Knowledge Base on shimming the output shafts and roll pins, particularly by Tim Engel. Prior to re-installing the drive shaft the output shaft, read up on the process. I did when I had to replace the output shaft seals and it was of great help.
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Thanks for the info Strawberry & Grumblebuns.
I'll read up on the shim procedure before reassembly. As for the motor mounts, when the body comes off, I'll set everything in place and make them then.
Hoped I'd make it a bit further before having more questions...
Today, I mated up the bell housing to the Zetec block. It appears that there are maybe 4 bolt and the locating pins that line up. Is this correct, or have I purchased the wrong engine? It also appears that some of the block will have to be cut away for the starter to fit. What has anyone else done here - drill and tap for the bottom bolts? Pics attached of the bell housing.
Also called Richard Banks Engineering today to inquire about a NG3, so will be making that purchase too.
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I don't have a Zetec and I haven't seen a Zetec in the "flesh" so I don't have a lot of detailed information. I thought the bell housing attachment was compatible with the Kent block at least partly because I've never heard of any issues with it from those who do have Zetecs (I know Joe has gotten that far so he probably has something useful to say), but I am in contact with a guy who is building a Zetec Europa and he didn't mention any problems with the bell housing other than some fabrication needed for mounting the starter. That could be because of the flywheel he is using. I've attached some pictures he sent me of his engine with the bell housing bolted on. One of his motor mounts is clearly seen. He has a hole through it for his shift linkage (365 tranny). I don't know if he purchased it or made it up. I could ask him. Maybe these might be helpful.
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Even to the untrained eye, something looks horribly wrong from the pictures. I also assumed that the bolt patterns for the TC bell housing matched the Zetec block. Do all Zetecs have the same tranny to engine bolt patterns?
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There are two options to mounting the starter, one way is to carve away the aluminum on the oil pan (blacktop Zetec) to clear the stock Lotus TC location, the other option is to copy what Dean (HealeyBN7) did and fabricate a plate that puts the starter in the stock Zetec location.
From what I've read/seen on the interwebs, the silvertop (hydraulic lifter) Zetecs have a different oil pan that doesn't require any trimming. But, fitting a silvertop pan to a blacktop engine isn't a simple bolt on job.
I hadn't though about drilling and tapping the aluminum oil pan for the other bolt holes on the TC bellhousing, but I will probably look at that this weekend. Also, do remember that the mounting bosses on the lower half of the bellhousing on the Lotus TC's was for attaching a dust shield (or at least it was on the Elans).
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That's right. The lower part of the bell housing bolts to a dust shield - or rather a dust shield bolts to it. It attached to the block at the upper half of the bell housing which makes sense since the mains are not inside the block - If you know what I mean...I forgot the word for it!
Andy, are you trying to bolt the bell housing to the oil pan? Try starting at the top of the bell housing and see where things land.
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Thanks for the help.
I've bolted the top 3 or 4 bolts, seems there were a couple that didn't line up - one on the lower left, and one where the lotus starter would go. The bottom holes for the dust shield do not line up.
After posting yesterday, I revisited threads with "Zetec" in them, and looked at LotusJoe's photos. I can see where it appears LotusJoe cut the block to fit his starter.
And BDA, thanks for the photos- nice looking engine. I especially enjoyed the pic with the left motor mount, with hole for shifter tube. I could see that the left side engine block flange is exactly as mine.
RoddyMac, revisited your build thread also. It appears you trimmed the block flange to follow the bellhousing contour, correct? Great work you are doing, BTW.
Using the stock Lotus mounting point for the starter, I understand the Lotus starter will not work, due to number of teeth?
What starter to use?
When I first mated bellhousing to block, after reading that they were a fit, thought I had made a mistake in engine purchase.
So, it appears I have a bit of work to do to make the bellhousing "fit".
Hopefully will be able to remove body from frame this weekend, and go from what I find there.
Thanks again for the help!
Andyh
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It looks to me that the block fits ok, which is what I expect, BUT it is the alloy sump pan that is the issue in fitting to the bell housing. There may well be different sumps for the Zetecs
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I'm told by a bloke who has one in a caterfield type kit car that the 1.8 sump is better to use as it's shallower.
I offered my bellhousing up to the 2.0 mondeo lump I have, and I don't think it was fouling on the sump. I'll check more carefully when I get a chance.
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Andy,
I asked the guy who's building the Zetec S2 (the pictures I posted are of his engine with headers and bell housing) about his motor mounts. He said he made the engine side himself. For the frame side, the bushings are polyurethane that he got from Summit Racing (#PTP-19-606 size .562 ID x 1.5 OD x 2.5 sleeve length for $14.97). He cut the bushings in half and shortened them just a little and shortened the metal tubes in his lathe just enough to use on the stock frame mount that he took the rubber out of. I think you can get the idea.
I hope that helps.
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Thanks for the info BDA. I'll give summitracing a look. was wanting to look for some other things there too.
Lathe? I'm more of a grinder and "looks about right" kinda guy. :headbanger:
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Hopefully these two photos will help you visualize what you can do for the motor mounts. I was frustrated with the rear trans mount as well and modified it along the same lines as the motor mounts.
You will have to fabricate brackets off the engine, but it is not too hard to fold up some cardboard to make a proxy until you are ready to commit to steel. I don't know what needs to be done to fit the shift linkage as I am running cables.
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Thanks for the info BDA. I'll give summitracing a look. was wanting to look for some other things there too.
Lathe? I'm more of a grinder and "looks about right" kinda guy. :headbanger:
I can relate! :) :headbanger: :headbanger:
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Got the disks and mounting plates back for the rear disk conversion. I think it looks good.
Check out the welds, they are great!
He may make more if anyone is interested.
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Nice! Which discs and calipers are you going to use?
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Early 90's vintage Accura disks and Miata calipers
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A little update.
1.photo of the NG3 from Banks, boxed up and ready to ship!
2.NG3 with Bank's CV adapter yokes. Pricey, but nice.
3.VW beetle axle with spacers, bearings and hub. Hub and axle just need a bit of machining and ready to fit up. As is, just need to move hub inboard about 1/16" to have centered in Lotus carrier. We'll see how this works out...
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Looking good! 8)
Are those axle's old Beetle or newer ones?
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Andy. Who did the rear disc brakes plates?
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I'm a little confused. Is that picture of the NG3 from Richard? That's pretty nice! He sent mine strapped on a pallet with no bell housing! It also looks like your CV joint/axle setup is nicer than mine, but I think mine was fairly early in the development as it was at least fifteen years ago.
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Blasterdad - The axles are 69-79 type 1.
Runningwild - A welder/coworker does some work for a machinist, they did the work on the rotors & brackets.
BDA - The bell housing is mine, he did the mod for the NG3 mainshaft on it. He did say that he has supplied the CV adapter yokes for about that long.
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Blasterdad - The axles are 69-79 type 1.
Considering doing something similar when the time comes, they look a lot stronger & probably more readily available.
Keep us posted for sure! Thanks!
:welder:
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Since you'll probably have to have them custom fitted, you should find an axle/driveshaft shop that can handle metric shafts. There wasn't one nearby so I ended up getting Richard to make mine up.
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In speaking with Richard, he said I'd probably have to have some axles made up.
The yahoo conversion write up used original VW bug axles. The stub axles are spaced inboard almost 1 inch, maybe this makes up the difference? There are many different vw axle lengths, auto transmission has 2 different lengths, and then there are grease rings, which add maybe 3/8 inch. Hopefully there will be a combination that will work with out having axles made.
Once I have the hubs machined, so can fit into carriers, and have engine - transaxle mounted in frame, then can accurately measure.
BDA, you are using Lotus stub axles? You have a universal and CV joint on each axle?
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BDA, you are using Lotus stub axles? You have a universal and CV joint on each axle?
Yep. I assume the CV joint is from Renault since it exactly fits the output shafts including a hole for the roll pin. Even though I don't need to use the roll pin, I use it just to be extra cautious.
I know that theoretically, it's not good to mix a U-joint and CV joint, but I haven't noticed anything negative in the setup. But then I have an old butt and even when it was young, it wasn't as sensitive I wish it were or I would have been a better racer in my youth!
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I've been quiet for a while. Trying to clear out the shop so can fit the Europa chassis - and still have a bit of room.
After looking closely at the rear brake brackets I had made, decided I wasn't to happy with them. Started making a set. Using 3X4X1/4" angle and some 1/4" flat stock.
Laid out the holes with the DRO, and drilled on milling machine. Dang handy tool.
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I realize this thread is OLD. I need to know which year Zetec's will hook up to a TC bellhousing. I have noticed the bolt pattern after 2004 for the Zetec's are different. Any help please.
TVrebel
4806506563
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I realize this thread is OLD. I need to know which year Zetec's will hook up to a TC bellhousing. I have noticed the bolt pattern after 2004 for the Zetec's are different. Any help please.
TVrebel
4806506563
The Zetec referred to as a Silver top and the Black Top. Both are based on the Ford 105E block. The silver top engine requires less modification
(http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/gallery/1_06_04_17_5_02_33.jpeg)
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Both are based on the Ford 105E block.
Time to be an anorak, that's not quite correct. The Zeta engine shares the bellhousing bolt pattern as a 105E block, but the Zeta (or Zetec) was based on the CVH block architecture.
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Well, time has come and I've removed the engine and transaxle from the TC, and have purchased a '01 Zetec blacktop engine.
While I'm at it, the body will come off for a frame inspection. Coolant tubes replaced, and I'm sure other things will pop up.
In preparation of conversion I've got some questions. I'm sure I'll be back with more. (hence this thread)
Sorry for coming in late on this thread - I must admit though I am quite envious. ;D
Out of interest - what chassis is your car running - original or other?
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Are we re-inventing the wheel here though? Didn't Chuck Nukem cover all of this? http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=4158.0
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Both are based on the Ford 105E block.
Time to be an anorak, that's not quite correct. The Zeta engine shares the bellhousing bolt pattern as a 105E block, but the Zeta (or Zetec) was based on the CVH block architecture.
I used the silver top Zetec and it bolted up to the gear box without issue. However I did have to make new motor mounts.