Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Members Cars => Topic started by: JasonH on Tuesday,February 19, 2019, 06:00:12 AM
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Hello all. I am finally getting to putting a record of what I am doing to 0038R. Last year I was feeling the need for a driving and running car so I took a look at the Bring a Trailer website and found a resto-modded type 65 that had some really cool photos to get me all stoked up. So the bidding started. As the days went by I was becoming more and more enamored with "my" new car. Well not yet. This thing had the Toyota 4ag motor swap, and was going to be awesome. Well the final day of the auction was upon me and as usual in the last few minutes of the auction there was just me and one other bidder. I had a number in my head where I was going to stop bidding. I went about $1000 over my mark. However, the other guy's mark must have been higher (or he just wanted to win the "competition"). With auctions my logic overrides my passion When my limit gets surpassed the pressure builds with each bid, and finally I quit. This was one of these cases so I passed and let him "win". After the frenzy I returned to my senses and remembered... There will always be another one. Feeling a bit dejected since now I won't be spending the rest of my summer cruising the mountain roads of Colorado in my really cool Europa. I told the story like I did above to a co-worker, and he said he had never heard of a Lotus Europa. "Who makes them" was his next question. I proceeded to explain... I then show him the shots of the cool Europa that I missed out on, and he replies: "Oh! I know that car. My mom has one in her garage. :huh: Her roommate parked it there years ago, and she wants it outta there" My response was: Lotus... Europa... Like this (pointing to the sleek nose and the blocky butt). He replied yes. I then say " ask your mom's roommate(http://) how much he wants for it" The rest is history.
The car was owned by a gentleman by the name of John D Bauer but I didn't buy it from him. The fellow I bought it from bought it from John, and he told me that John didn't drive it much because the wheel bearing kept going bad. I also heard that John had several Europas so I can imagine if one didn't work he would just drive the one that worked!
Here is the data from the Registry:
As invoiced:
Vin Number: 65/0038R
Date Built: 2/4/1970
Date Invoiced: 3/19/1970
Engine #: 821-30/0819
Transmission #: 336-56/? 4 Speed
Original color: L09 - Royal Blue
Condition:
Current color: Black
Stored since 1990
Very Rough
Bought on eBay 2/05
Link: http://lotus-europa.com/regs2.html#7002040048R
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I don't like auctions because if I win, I know I was willing to pay more than anybody else!
Congratulations on your score! Serendipity is sweet! Are you planning a resto-mod or a restoration?
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I wish I had the shot of the car in the garage. There was junk stacked 5 feet high on top of it and all around. It took 3 hours just to excavate it from the garage. What got me stoked up was that it sported some period Italian aftermarket wheels. At first I thought Campagnolos? Nope. Cromodoras. Shod with some seriously wide 215/50's Ok... I'll take em! My first look in the window was a dried out but not destroyed interior. The seats... In perfect condition! Yeah! Overall the body was in great shape. There were no signs of damage repair, and the chassis was solid with no rust.
BDA Since this car is in such original shape I will be going the restoration route with some tweaks (that can be reversed)
The body still has the sealing tape that sealed the chassis on the underside (however it is not completely intact) I had never seen that.
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Nice wheels! I assume the 215s are on the rear. What size fronts does she have?
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BDA There was no stagger... 215 up front and rear. I have since changed out the rubber. With rubber that doesn't rub!
I am still trying to get used to uploading images. I seem to need to resize everything and I am not sure how to post multiple images.
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Vitour tyres from E-bay 195/55-13 Not very "round" but they work. They came wrapped up really nice though.
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Looking forward to more photos!
"Not-very-round" is going to be a problem. Europas are very sensitive to out of round tires.
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Yes. Indeed!
I did get them to balance. I only bought two at first to test clearance. I say not very round because one of the tires didn't need much weight to get in balance. However, the second need considerable weight to bring in balance. Also when spinning on the balancer both appear to have what looked like a "hop", and Yes. I was concerned. I carried on however, and bolted them on to the front to see if they would rub, and now how they would perform. Much to my surprise and relief they functioned fine (fibrationally speaking), and they didn't rub under braking. The problem that was exacerbated when I brought the ride height down to euro specs. So when they passed this test I bought a second pair. Of which they did the same. One balanced with minimal weight and the other with considerable weight. Going to put the "good" ones up front. I haven't driven with all 4 installed. I will have to wait till I get the car put back together, and the snow melts to do a final test. I will report my findings come spring time.
Random photos attached as practice. At this point.
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Congrats on your Europa purchase. A very lucky find. I'm really digging those wheels. Cheers :beerchug:
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What a great bit of luck! - Look forwards to seeing more pics...
There is a 'how to' on uploading pics, I find the easiest way is to e-mail myself the pics I want to upload, you can select the size before you send them. When you attach an image to your post there is a + under the link to your first image so you can add more....
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Sounds like a great project Jason, congrats! The registry at lotus-europa.com lists 0038R as belonging to John D. Bauer of Boulder CO. Pretty astronomical odds that your co-workers-Mom's-room mate would have a spare Europa lying around. You must have excellent Lotus Karma! :beerchug:
Tom
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Congratulations! Sounds like you really lucked up on a nice example!! My TCS still had the frame/body sealing tape, well, maybe 80% remaining.
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Andy/Tom Thanks for the positive vibes. It has been challenging and fun.
Today I worked on two areas:
1) Repairing the passenger side firewall.
Seems that water was allowed to collect in the void underneath where a second fuel tank would go, and worked it's way up into the beaver board (at yellow arrow) through two holes at the lower corners of the wall (At orange arrows). When I first poked around behind the passenger seat I thought the entire wall was compromised. However, this was not the case and the damage was localized. What looked like a month of work now seems to be a week.
2) Creating replacements for the worn/warped sill blocking cardboards.
Over the years I have always looked at these crappy looking things and thought it would be cool to recreate them with carbon Kevlar. Yesterday I cut the pattern and then transferred it to my CK. I put a stiffener in the center, trimmed to fit, and it seemed to work out well. The layup (I think) will be stiff enough to keep in place and is flexible enough to conform to the upper part of the wheel well.
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Very nice work, and Carbon Kevlar! A dab of RTV works wonders for securing things, and is easy to remove. I embarked on a love affair with Buell motorcycles over my like of the 1999 X1 Carbon Kevlar edition, had to have it. Owned #144 of 250 for 15 years. Ended up owning 6 different models. Great Bikes. The Carbon Kevlar X1 was the last to go, last Dec.
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The first picture shows the normal wear and tear of the compressed stuff in the interior of the "firewall". Some people have replaced it marine plywood. I wimped out and only glassed fiberglass cloth on the engine side, attached some mylar covered foam heat and sound insulation to it, but did very little on the interior side other than installing new carpeting and a door to access the water pump and timing belt.
I like your "sill blocking covers". Too bad most people will never see them. :(
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BDA Did you have the engine out when you glassed the firewall? I want to, but it looks like a very uncomfortable task with the engine in the way. I am not really feeling all that motivated to do glass work upside down. Actually I don't know how you did it even with the engine removed!
Andy Yeah I have just enough of it to do all 4 I have one down now 3 to go. Buells are cool. Googling the X1 CK edition.
Today off to hopefully finish the firewall, do another sill blocker, and fix my mistake on the outer dash supports. By "mistake" I decided to use NAPA brand poly resin (to build the mounts up) and this stuff just doesn't cure or bond! I'll take a picture
Another random picture for entertainment purposes:
These ruffians driving red cars pulled up next to the Europa this summer. My first thought... "hope I didn't get a door ding!" ;)
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I have always fibreglassed the firewall from the seat side. Much easier.
If the fibreboard is damaged beyond repair, cut 1/2" ply to fit in the odd shaped holes, and fibreglass them in behind the (removed) seats.
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Jason, I did a complete body off rebuild of my car so the engine, as well as everything else, was out. I wouldn't even consider doing that with the engine in. As it was, it was pretty messy because of the slope of the firewall. Replacing the firewall from the inside with the engine in seems doable though.
Alex (4129R), I think what I was thinking is that I wanted to get rid of the horsehair insulation and I needed something solid to mount the new insulation on. That and replacing the entire firewall seemed like overkill - it's just as likely that I was intimidated by the prospect. I don't think it was till later that I read about people using marine plywood. I think that is a much better idea than what I did. Luckily, my fiberboard was not in such rough shape that I absolutely had to replace it.
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The bulkhead on my TCS had been fiberglassed from the inside when I purchased it.
Appears to have the original horse hair insulation on the engine side.
That will be changed, "if & when", lol.
The Kevlar/CF, well, just knowing it's there... And most who'd look in those locations, when they spy what's there will be incredulous - and the questions will start...
Yeah, Buells are way cool. I can find parallels between the thinking of C. Chapman & E. Buell. Shame what happened to the Buell company.
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On the engine side on TCS, there is the noise deadening underfelt, dressed right down where the fuel tanks are, and a sort of black linoleum type waterproof material, again full width and down into the tank wells.
I glue both, and then screw into the fibreboard or ply with self tapping screws and big "penny" washers to hold the sound deadening material in place as the glue is not reliable.
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Hi Jason,
Looks like you caught the bug and are enjoying your Europa. Driving those winding mountain roads must be fantastic. Looking forward to reading more. Best of luck with your new BFF.
Dakazman
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Newish member, so apologize in advance if already covered elsewhere....
I built a firewall using foam core board as typically used in newer boat construction (replaces marine plywood in many applications). Very lightweight, easily shaped and sanded for fitment. Built in 3 pieces (as seen in pics). Once foam shaping is complete and before installing the foam in the car, fiberglass the foam board on the engine side using mat or roving as you see fit. Then glass the panels into the car directly in the engine bay. I attached the body to the chassis during installation so as to avoid making a warped body relative to the chassis. Next glass the cabin side.
The project went fairly quick and I was pleased with the outcome. Very stiff and should provide some decent insulation between cabin and engine. Will cover engine side with some suitable thermal/sound deadening material when I get to that point in my rebuild.....maybe lizardskin as I've been wanting to try that out on something.
4'x8' foam core board was $40 as I recall.
TonyWa
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Nicely done, Tony! That sounds like a better option than plywood!
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Tony
Did you post these picts elsewhere? I vaguely remember seeing these,or something like them.
Couple of questions:
Was the firewall totally disintegrated?
How did you apply the glass on the engine bay side?
Oh... Wait a minute... You did the panel layup and THEN bonded it in! Am I correct?
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Tony - where did you buy that panel? I don't think I've seen a price close to $40 for a 4x8 sandwich panel anywhere. Jamestown Distributors has them at more than 10x that price.
https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=1587&familyName=Foam+Core+Composite+Panel
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I glassed the engine bay side of the pieces out of the car and the cabin side after installation. With only the one side glassed I was able to do a little clamping and conforming before permanently attaching the panel and then glassing the cabin side. Made for a good fit. You still have to do the edge mat taping of the engine bay side, but that is pretty straightforward. it is messy to do the cabin side vertical part, but if you don't use too much resin, its not bad. Folks tend to use lots of resin which makes things drippy, heavy and no stronger. Hope that helps.
First post for my pictures.
Tonywa
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Looks like plain closed cell foam sheet in the pics, not a pre made sandwich panel (foam core with composite skins) - this is probably why there is such a price difference in what you are finding?
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this is where I got it. I can't find the price now.
https://fiberglassflorida.com/fiberglass-knit-and-woven-core/air-cell-t-60-6lb-green-foam.html
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Tony Thanks for posting your method. This has opened up an impasse that I had to deal with the engine side of the wall. Much appreciated. :pirate:
Oh... and some pictures of the engine compartment as I got the car. I was pretty stoked to see all the vintage stickers on the boot compartment when I first opened the deck lid.
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Cool stickers!
yes, the foam core is plain. You apply resin to the foam and then add mat or woven roving. You can use a spiked roller to drive the resin farther into the foam to maximize strength if need be, but realistically the original firewall had little strength. The foam core with two sides glass is much stronger. At the end of the day the bulk of the strength is in the chassis.
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Looking forward to hearing about your progress!
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That's a good price for plain foam core. It's definitely a better option than plywood. Thanks for the write up.
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FYI - Called Fiberglass Florida to verify price. It is $75.57 for 4 x 8 x .5 sheet
I must have been thinking of a half sheet price. Still very cheap for a nice product.
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Thanks Tony I appreciate the advice on the firewall approach. When I saw the stickers I imagined that the car was driven to some cool races at Riverside, and other events in SoCal. It also has a seal beach parking pass on the front screen. So it definitely did it's early days in California before it made the move to Boulder Colorado.
The fellow that I bought it from told me that the previous owner (John D. Bauer) had it sitting around for years (along with 3 others) and complained that he couldn't keep the wheel bearings from "going out". This summer I found out when I went through the rear suspension. The left side stub axle splines were worn pretty round, and the Spacers were a bit mushroomed as well. So no matter how much you torqued it didn't hold. So replacement of stub, hub, spacer, and bearings were in order.
Currently the front suspension is out at the powdercoaters. When I get that back I will be rebushing the arms, fix up the Konis, and get it back on it's wheels
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The pictures above show the torquing of the hubs. I certainly got all spooked out with all the comments on the yahoo forum about getting the hubs torqued before the red loctite dried. Well having the entire assembly out surely sped the process. After inspecting the hubs I also looked at the trailing arm bushings, motor mounts, and trans mounts. All looked in the proper condition for 48 year old lightly used rubber. So all were replaced. The biggest issue was the motor mounts. The right side was so bad it had the engine slumped to that direction resulting in the transfer tube rubbing the chassis at the "Y"
I can't wait to drive it this summer.
One more note:
I bought a new hub flange for that right side. When pressing in the wheel studs it required quite a bit of force. More than I am used to. I had to use the hydraulic press to install them. Normally I have just pulled them in with a wheel bolt. Couldn't do it with this new flange.
Has anyone else replaced the drive flange,and did you notice that the clearance was a bit tight?
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Those are pretty!
You probably can't get any other kind now, but the spacers need to be hardened. Also, red Loktite is the wrong one to use on the splines. I can't remember the correct number, but it's made for filling in gaps. We've discussed this elsewhere on this forum. Before I built my car, Dave Bean was telling me to use red Loktite. That was a long time ago so I don't know if Dave ever changed his mind about that. It may work but the proper stuff is certainly preferable.
I can't comment on your hubs. I used the original hubs when I built my car.
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I like the progress! You will enjoy the car I promise. Brit cars are all fiddly (and I've had many), but the driving is a visceral experience.
I know that the loctite suggested for securing the bearings in the carriers back in the day (and probably still) was for sleeve and bearing retention - https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-37424-Strength-Retainer-6-milliliter/dp/B0002KKTIG The hope is that the bearings don't spin in the carrier housing if the bearing gets rough or starts sticking.....). Its a bit thicker and can sort of mitigate some damage if the bearings had spun a bit already. could use on splines as well, but not sure how much that really helps. I know people use it and it can't hurt..... FWIW - Red seems right for the threads to me. Hardened spacers are good.
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I don't remember loctite being called for for the bearings set in the uprights, . I was referring to the loctite called for in the manual for the joint of the hub to the splines in the half shaft.
2. BEFORE fitting the rear hubs and to ensure a positive fit between the hubs and the outboard drive
shaft, ensure that both the hub and drive shaft are free from grease and dirt. Spray the mating surfaces
with Locquic primer grade 'T' and allow to dry. Apply Loctlte 'High Strength Retaining Compound Type
35'.
I believe Loctite #35 has been supplanted with Loctite #635 and should be used only for the splines.
Loctite for threads is fine and since there is already a D-washer to lock the nut, you get a belts & suspenders deal.
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I bought a new hub flange for that right side. When pressing in the wheel studs it required quite a bit of force. More than I am used to. I had to use the hydraulic press to install them. Normally I have just pulled them in with a wheel bolt. Couldn't do it with this new flange.
Has anyone else replaced the drive flange,and did you notice that the clearance was a bit tight?
My garage used 6 tons, and could not get the studs to go in any further.
One rotated, so they welded it in place.
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Yes... The loctite discussions. I think it was last summer there was great discussion (again) on this topic. From those discussions I picked Loctite 277 to glue the assembly together. I purchased it from McMaster-Carr. This seems to be the best place to buy things of this nature because they supply plenty of data to assist in the selection of the proper for the problem Here is a link to the particular page: https://www.mcmaster.com/loctite
I have to admit that I am not one for getting hung up on details like exactly what loctite is needed. I just figured glue is better than no glue! So I loosely followed the advice from the forum, and from McMaster I chose the #277 for "gluing" everything. I will just have to live with my decision. I will definitely use the #635 for the splines on the next set I do.
Perhaps if the Europa had wings more consideration would be warranted.
Speaking of wings I have a Type 54 waiting in the wings. So that ole girl will get the 635 on her splines
As for the spacers Yes they are hardened. I bought those from R.D. Enterprises. Back in the day it was mentioned that you could source hardened "drill spacer" of the correct dimension from Aircraft Spruce. Not knowing that they were easily accessible through the lotus suppliers I looked for them on the Aircraft Spruce website (last summer) and couldn't find them. I subsequently talked to Ray and he also said that is the only way they are sold.
More entertainment photos taken with Grunschev's Elise. Nice for size comparison. Here is the youtube link to his antics at the track I work at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAAOU2ko64s
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Ah Good! Thanks 4129R I was wondering if it was something with me!
Usually is ;)
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There are certainly a lot more different types of Loctite for many different types of uses than I know about but for the most part, we as Europa owners, only need to worry about three - red (271), blue (242), and 635 (I think it's green). The red and blue (and their equivalents from other manufacturers) are readily available at parts stores. r.d. sells small volumes of 635 appropriate for our applications. I'm not an expert on the numbers and the 277 may be equivalent for most uses to 271.
The qualities of these are significant. Red is for threaded parts you don't expect to take apart. You will need to heat it before you can take a red loctited nut off a bolt. Blue is for threaded parts that can't be locked any other way but you will want to easily be able to disassemble the joint. You should be able to take it apart the same way you put it together. The 635 is for splines. It is designed to fill gaps in the splines to ensure there is no movement between the two parts. Heat is required to disassemble the parts. Red loctite is not for this. When I found out just what the old loctite 35 (now loctite 635) is for, I was surprised that Dave Bean advised me using red loctite for that purpose.
I think I would disassemble the red locited hub, clean it up with lacquer thinner (or even better with loctite cleaner) and then reassemble it with 635. I won't say that the red will necessarily be a problem on your splines but now you know the proper stuff to use and if you're like me, that will eat at you in the back of your mind. :P
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One source that says red loctite for splines:
http://gglotus.org/ggtech/europa-rearaxle/Eurraxle.htm
and something different from the Europa Competition manual:
"The rear stub axles were installed using "Loctite Shaft and Bearing Mount" on the threads.
The locking nut was torqued to 160 lbs ft. The hubs should be checked for tightness after every
track session as problems have been experienced with stretching and consequent slackening of
the axle shaft nut. It is recommended that the stub axles be replaced after three practice and race
sessions as a precautionary measure."
I think they meant splines instead of threads, but the text says "threads"
Add to that the callout for sleeve and bearing retainer on the carrier as I knew from the 70s and 80s (along with splines) due to the wear in the press fit of the bearings in the carrier housings ( worn due to multiple bearing fittings over time). So now you have three opinions on what and where from the internet (internet is the greatest thing and the worst thing....). I'm sure there are more.
Now comes Henkel (Loctite Manufacturer) with yet another product - https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/ee/en/product/retaining-compounds/loctite_660.html It specifically says for splines, worn housings, keyways, etc
Even though I've used the green, Henkel specifically calls out that it is for tight fitting cylindrical applications (think bearings on shafts). These splines are not what I would call tight-fitting even when new.
Historically I agree with BDA, the sleeve and bearing retainer is the better answer for gap filling adn retention in general. Red for threads. But Henkel now says 660 for splines and filling.... anyway, its all best used with primer/activator, especially in gap filling situations (again, per Henkel).
my last .02......
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Ah Good! Thanks 4129R I was wondering if it was something with me!
Usually is ;)
I had bigger studs fitted. Banks could not drill the holes out, they had to use a reamer to enlarge the stud holes.
The studs are an interference fit with very fine splines which are supposed to embed in the hub. The hub was so hard, the splines would not draw in with the wheel nuts being tightened.
I had to take the trailing arm off, take the arm with the hub and wheel partly on, off the car, use mole grips on the back of the stub to stop it rotating, undo the wheel nut, and then take the car to the garage to press the studs in.
They could not get the studs in any further at 6 tons, so we welded the studs in place to stop them rotating.
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and if you're like me, that will eat at you in the back of your mind. :P
You would do that!!! :blowup:
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Tony, I'm not arguing with anything that you say, but I would note that Jensen Motors replaced stub axles every three races because they apparently stretched. Knowing that they would need to be replaced every three races, other preparation might have been short circuited because the eventual problem would probably happen later. Also, not using loctite on the splines makes replacing the stub axles more difficult.
There are better options for stub axles that have been discussed elsewhere on this forum but they require some modifications. I guess the other option is to prepare the stock stub axles to provide the longest life possible.The quote I posted about using loctite 35 a few posts ago came from the TC workshop manual. Unless more efficient procedures or materials, I think the shop manual should be considered the best practice.
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and if you're like me, that will eat at you in the back of your mind. :P
You would do that!!! :blowup:
Sorry! If it keeps your stub axle and hub from coming apart, it will be worth it. But on the other hand, you might want to wait to see if there is a discussion later this evening or tomorrow that sheds more light on this. Tony found another proponent of the use of red loctite for the splines (it did come from Golden Gate Lotus Club so the author, Kiyoshi, may have gotten that tip from Dave Bean, too!).
Maybe it is ok!
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FWIW - I'm with the green team as it is a bearing and bushing retainer product as opposed to a threadlocker (red). I sent an email to Henkel to see what they say. but I actually only asked about 635 vs the 660. Its likely they won't respond, but it took a minute to send....
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Response from Henkel/Loctite in regards to what should be used on stub axle splines (nothing to dramatic):
after asking Henkel about 635 vs 660 for splines:
Tony, how much clearance is there? I like 680 if it happens to be a little loose. 635 was the forerunner to 680. The 680 TDS is attached. Ordering item # 1835201 is a 50 ml bottle of 680. The maximum fill for 680 is 0.015” on the diameter. The maximum fill for 660 is 0.020” on the diameter. 680 is sold through industrial adhesive distributors like Fastenal and Grainger.
Gave him background on our application and asked about red threadlocker usage for the splines. His response (no real comment on using red threadlocker):
Tony, 680 can be used in place of 635. If you use “primer T”, this is called SF 7471 today. However, 680 has primer built into the formulation already and thus, you really don’t need to use primer with 680 for its original purpose which is to aid the cure on coated metals. However, if you want to speed the fixture time simply, you can still use the primer with 680. Ordering item # 135337 is a 4.5 fl oz aerosol can of SF 7471. I usually state 24 hours to achieve functional cure.
Regards,
Mike
Michael xxxx (redacted) | Technical Communications Coordinator | AG Technical Customer Service
Henkel| 1 Henkel Way, Rocky Hill CT 06067 USA
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Great info, Tony! Thanks!
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I am tempted to take that Henkel information and put it in the technical section with the title " what type of thread locker do I use to assemble the rear hub assembly"
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Two questions for you guys:
1) What have you done to restore your sunvisors?
2) Has anyone restored their dash board and pad using Richard's fibreglass dash pad replacement?
My sunv isors are quite stained and intact bags of dust.
My fitment of dash has shown the dash top sags a bit and is not level. This is not a huge thing, but it is bugging me. Did the original ones do this? I am not sure if I have seen this on other restored cars. I will try to heat it tomorrow and see if I can motivate it up, but I don't think that will last with the first hot day with the sun beating down on it. Also I have been carefully trimming the leading edge so as to allow it to fit close the the windscreen without a big gap. I have pulled and put back in the dash top at least 20 to 50 times already.
My goal to make the dash "easy" to remove. Make an assembly from the unit that can be removed by unplugging a multi-pinned plug for the electrical and unbolting the 10 bolts that secure it.
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1 the visors in my TCS were already done when I purchased it. Appears to be cardboard folded over, so to fit on the visor rod. Covered in vinyl, with edging sewn on. They just slip on the visor rod.
2 The Banks fiberglass dash was used on my car, and the front 'lip' looks like it is sagging. I attempted to modify to raise the 'lip', as it obscures the top of the gauges. The dash fiberglass is very rigid, and I didn't accomplish much. I did fit some rubber 'edge stripping' where the edge dash meets the body under windshield. I had to get a new dash cover stitched up as the old was torn in the process.
Like you, I wanted to make the dash 'quick-detach', but didn't, and just left some excess wire so I could pull it out farther. I've got a new non-Lotus harness that hopefully will get installed.... someday.
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Paul Matty list a crash pad that is described as "Made from high quality ABS plastic from original moulding", which makes me think it is from a different source than the one that Banks sell. One piece of possibly useful trivia I learned from google is that the Elan Plus 2 uses the same crash pad. Anyway, here's the link:
https://paulmattysportscars.co.uk/product/europa-crashpad/
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Two questions for you guys:
1) What have you done to restore your sunvisors?
My sun visors are quite stained and intact bags of dust.
You're not alone with sun visors resembling a plastic bag of dust, I would guess that most are either in that condition or about to be. I've just put new headlining in the car and used some of the same material to cover the sun visors. It's not a brilliant job because no matter how you look at it, you will have an external seam of thread at some point. With mine it's on the top where the bar goes so until you actually use the visor you don't see it from inside.
I did hear of one method of reclaiming the originals if the plastic covering is in good condition. That was to make a frame with two short planks spaced about 1/2" apart, clean out as much dust as you could from the visor then slide it into the gap. Use the hole where the support rod slides to inject some of that expanding foam you use around windows, etc. It fills the plastic envelope and the wooden former keeps the shape of the visor intact.
Apparently this does work but I didn't bother as the plastic covering was yellowed & stained badly.
Brian
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Andy Thanks for the info. Where did you source the rubber trim for the leading edge of the dash? Yeah. The dash is stiff and doesn't want to go where I want it to go! I an still going to mess with it some more.
Gideon: That is some interesting news now I know why there is a discrepency with the demister recess cast into the dash top and the Europa grilles. The dash was designed with the Elan in mind. Pictures below.
Brian: Awsome suggestion. My visors are pretty stained and quite yellowed I am going to try the expanding foam in formers technique
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Pictures of the difference in the recess formed in the dash top compared to the Europa demister grille
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I got my rubber u channel from McmasterCarr.
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Oh good I use them frequently on this build. Thanks
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If you attempt the expanding foam in formers be sure to incline the visors (something like 20 degrees from horizontal) and inject the foam from the highest point so that the chemical runs to the base and expands up the incline - pushing the air ahead of it and back out of the hole you injected through. The former needs to be sufficiently strong enough to help the casing retain its original shape as you would be surprised just how much pressure is generated in the reaction of the foam! - One of the things my company does is moulded PU foam and the jigs used to retain the foam are far more substantial than anyone ever expects that they need to be! - also a common mistake is to inject far too much, which makes a horrible mess!
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Thanks JR73 It is little tidbits like this that make the process much more efficient! I wish I had started this thread last summer. I would be much further along in my resto. I have done the first step in cleaning the "vinyl bags". I cleaned with a mild detergent and most of the dirt has come off, and they look much better. The issues I have now (rust stains) and foresee are the yellowing. I have new headliner from Banks and I feel the visors will really stand out unfortunately.
I will google "rust stain removal" but does anyone know of a personally proven method of removal? Is there such a thing as a flexible vinyl paint?
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Don't know how it would apply to the visors - but - The opaque plastic bodywork on Buells faded in the sun. I remember reading on the Buell forum that some had used Ritt Dyes(for clothing), and 'enhanced' the faded bodywork, by soaking in dyed water solution.
Maybe worth a shot?
Also, have seen aerosol spray dye for vinyl, but has beena while
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I am tempted to take that Henkel information and put it in the technical section with the title " what type of thread locker do I use to assemble the rear hub assembly"
Yes, please.
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I will google "rust stain removal" but does anyone know of a personally proven method of removal? Is there such a thing as a flexible vinyl paint?
Oxalic acid make an excellent rust stain remover. It comes as a powder and can be mixed with water to form a paste. It's a mild acid, and can be commonly found as the active ingredient in some cleaners such as Barkeepers Friend. I don't know how it will work on soft goods, but I expect it will at least be somewhat effective.
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Ok. Here is something I found interesting... Here are a few shots of the radiator and electric fan. I am assuming the fan is a stock unit because it is not made of plastic. If you notice there is a little arrow indicating the direction of rotation. If you also notice the pitch of the fan blades. Yes the fan if run in the correct orientation it will pull air through the radiator towards the front of the car??? I did a search on "radiator fan" and didn't find anything relating to this "orientation"
Does anyone out there have experience with this?
I wonder if this has been PULLING air during it's entire life? I could only imagine that you could trundle around at neighborhood speed all day and run cool on the hottest days. However, once you got out on the highway I can only imagine that the temp gauge would creep up.
I am reticent to run the fan in "reverse" due to the left hand threaded nut holding the fan blade in place.
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The fan definitely needs to push not pull. if your concerned about loosing the fan nut, replace it with a nyloc nut and a drop of loctite.
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Europas originally came with rad fans from Renault R16s. They are "puller" fans and work that way on the R16. Not many cheap sources of rad fans back then so Lotus took the R16 fan and swapped the wires to make a "pusher" fan. Frankly, it didn't really work. It's barely adequate in cool(-ish), moist England. Try anywhere dry and hot and forget about it.
Sometimes you can simply flip the blades and you're back in business. Not in this case as the fan blade is asymmetrical.
What to do?
Trying for a 100 pt restoration? Leave it as is and don't drive it during the heat of the day in slow traffic.
Otherwise? Put the R16 fan on the shelf and fit a modern, HO pusher fan.
What's really funny is that the "reversed wiring" means that the black wire goes to power and the red to ground. If you are not paying attention, common practice is to hook it up the other way. Now you have a pulling fan. It's more efficient that way (due to blade curvature) so it actually works really well at idle and slow speeds -- you do get hot air in the cockpit though. Start driving mind and the fan stops the natural air flow through the rad. So you get overheating at speed!
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Thanks for the input. I just powdercoated the assembly and rebuilt the motor. So I will just run it backwards and just be happy with it. I did plumb an oil cooler to the right rear wheel well. I read about someone else doing that and it looked really cool and inconspicuous. I think I have pictures...
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I don't think you'll get much air flow through your cooler. It doesn't look like there is a provision for the air to exhaust from the cooler. I mounted my oil cooler below the trunk tray on the driver's side, made a duct from the cooler to louvers next to the license plate. I thought there would be a low pressure area behind the car but that didn't work out nearly as well as I thought it would. So if you don't have a place for the air to go, you won't get any flow through your cooler.
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WRT the oil cooler location. You are probably right. Provided it wasn't my imagination at work here. I swore that I read of someone using this location and it was noted that there was airflow, but can't find it on the yahoo group as usual. I should have taken notes...
However. If I don't get any flow through the cooler I will just add a fan on a thermo switch.
thanks again BDA
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https://www.prevanders.net/europa/oilsystem.html
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Thanks for that link. Way more car than I have, but it is in the same place! I haven't seen this car/photos. I remember more of a stock application like mine. Oh well.
I have been spending much time tweaking the Banks Dash pad to get it to fit and make it a "modular" assembly. The goal to have the pad, registers, and dash set up as separate assemblies.
Currently I have changed the way the demister vent registers mount to the supports. I removed the aluminum brackets that held the registers into the flange. I formed a fibreglass plate that fills the huge hole by forming the glass over the registers allowing them to sit firmly, and flush with the mounting flange. With the registers mounted separate from the dash top the top will slide over with the vent trim fastened to the dash top, and not to the mounting flange. I extended the flange on the dash top to accept the 1/4x20 chrome screws so it can be held in by the bolts and not have to be connected to the dash board. I also added speed nuts to the outer mounting points so one doesn't have to reach one's hand in behind the dash (potentially damaging wiring, binnacle or glove box) to get a wrench on the nut floating back there.
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So the idea is to be able to take the dash out without needing to mess with the demister vents? That's a great idea because otherwise you'd have to take the windshield out before you can take the dash out. Nice.
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Yes! Exactly! It would have been easier to do this with the screen out, but I didn't feel like pulling it right now. It can come out when it is time to paint.
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Huh... Looks like I have been away for a while. Over 120 days! Not that I haven't been working on the car (it runs now) I just haven't been keeping up with posting on my progress...
Now to figure out how to get this to work.
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From putting in the dash to starting her up and no updates... Jason, we have to talk!
What does she look like now? What have you done? Inquiring minds and all...
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Well... I got quite a bit done. I am trying to attach photos but having difficulties. I logged out and back in I will make an attempt...
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I get a message that says that lotuseuropa.org cannot "handle the request" I have resized the image and it is @ .99 MB. Which should make it?
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Have you seen this http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1379.0?
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Thanks. that was my old method. I tried a new one (new to me anyway) and maybe that is why it is not working.
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Dash repaired and prepped for Veneer. Ok. that was the problem. Darn. because the "new" way was much quicker.
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The veneering of the dash was a bit more problematic that I anticipated. The dash was pretty severely de-laminated, and I re-glued it with epoxy. However, the "ultra cat"veneer glue didn't like the non porous surface in spots. No hint of adhesion! I had to go back and squeeze epoxy into the voids and clamp. Attached is another shot of the dash under vacuum to the veneer.
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In hindsight I should have just used epoxy to glue the veneer to the board. I also should have attempted to flatten/relax the veneer. I got impatient and just wanted to get it glued on so I wrestled with the veneer trying to roll back up to it's shipped position. (Interesting message on the packaging of the veneer. Felt like I was unpacking a bomb.)
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I definitely made a rookie mistake by trimming the veneer without first applying a coat of clear or epoxy first. The veneer was so thin that it easily split without having a binder absorbed into the wood fibers. This can be seen with the chunks around the binnacle aperture, and around the windshield wiper switch opening. I should have also taken more time to fill the voids with a better matching colour, but didn't ::)
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After massaging out my mistakes. I proceeded to lay on 7 coats of Glasurit clear. I spent the better part of a week painting, sanding, painting, sanding.
I laid down 5 build up coats, a lable application, and then another 2 on top. I was super paranoid on my last sanding/leveling. I was worried about sanding out my labels! However, I took my time and didn't make any mistakes on this task. I feel if I had applied the epoxy to the dry veneer I would not have spent so much time with the clearcoat. Finishing off I did a three stage buff, and the results were acceptable.
I looked around for photos of the finished product but can't find them. Just this one (before the last 2 coats) getting measurements for fitment.
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Done posting for the day.
Next: Fitment of the dash pad
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In spite of the "rookie" mistakes, it came out really good! If you haven't installed it yet (and at the risk of :deadhorse:), I would advise you to finish or at least seal all the edges of the plywood so moisture can't get in. BTW, I'm not disparaging your work by calling your mistakes "rookie." I would never trust myself to try a job like that! If I'm a danger with a wrench in my hand, I'm a disaster with wood working!
Also, the method of resizing pictures I pointed you to is not the way I do it. If you want to experiment, what I do is display the picture on the screen. The last couple of versions of Windows came with a utility called "Snipping Tool" which allows you to save a picture of all or a portion of your screen to a file. I use that utility to save either a part or all of the picture to a new file and I attach that to my posts. In the end whatever works!
Keep up the good work!
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Take pride that you did it all yourself......including some of the small mistakes. I took the easy way out and bought a new one. You get more points from me for doing it :trophy:
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Nice job Jason, nice finish! are you going to add any lettering to the panel? You brought back memories of my rebuild not to long ago .
Starting here, http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2058.300.
I still have to put it back together With all new gaskets and seals.
Dakazman
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Dash looks great! As an amateur woodworker with perfectionist tendencies myself, I can say with confidence only YOU will see the microscopic flaws in the veneer. Everyone else will see a job well done.
Tom
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Ok. I'm back. Yes I did totally seal the dash back side and edges. Lettering added. However my alignment was not ideal. I needed to apply them a bit lower from the opening than I did. Not too bad though.
Here is a shot of the dash and Interior... almost "finished".
As you can see I need to finish the door panels. I should be working on those this month. What is not too visible is the electrical system. I decided to assemble up a mechanical Half-bridge for the window motors. Their function is much more efficient when they are allowed full voltage direct from the source. Plenty of space to mount the relays right above the speaker hole.
Speaking of the electrical system I did use a cheaper pre-assembled wire harness kit. I should have just made one up from scratch. The Kit used wire with a cheap grade of insulation that made for a very thick wire harness after build up. It also had single colour coded wire with writing of what function the particular wire served. It ended up being more trouble than it was worth.
I guess they write on the wire to make it easier for the total neophyte. I had other complications regarding thick wire insulation... I will get into that in a minute...
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Looks great! The small alignment issue will not concern me. Congratulations!
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Thanks BDA
Next time I'll take more consideration. Whaddya think of the steering wheel? My thought is that It doesn't work with the interior looks wise, but it is great in the hands and the flat bottom makes it much easier to clear the knees!
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Crap... I shrunk the photo of the backside of the dash too much. Harder to see the details.
In keeping with the concept of a quick removal of the dash I build in 3 Deutsch connectors to carry all the signal and power requirements of the dashboard electricals. Attached here is the photo of the harness plugs (well... the two to the right) This is where experience (the lack of) with dealing with a higher spec. part (the Deutsch connectors) vs. a lower spec wire. The Deutsch connectors have accommodation for two different diameters of wire insulation for a given gauge of wire. Well... the cheaper spec. wire had a thicker diameter wire insulation than the Deutsch connector was designed for. Making a mess for me to get the wires to insert into the plugs. These plugs are designed to have the wires easily removed with the proper de-pinning tool. However, with this cheaper spec. wire removal/modification will be impossible. Additionally I did make a few mistakes (at the plug) which will make for confusion in the event of fault diagnostics. Also I didn't use the Deutsch crimping tool... I used my generic tool and it did not crimp it to the level of precision the Deutsch tool would do.
In addition to the "cannon plugs" (as my helicopter mechanic friend calls them) You will see a black box, and a switch with an orange backing. This is an intermittent wiper system taken from the 90's Ford F-series pickups, Broncos, and vans. I picked this up (from the dealer) years ago and had it installed in my TC. Amazingly enough it happened to hang around all these years to be installed into this car after I parted the TC. You would never know that the car has intermittent wipers by looking at the dash! Super cool factor... For me anyway.
As you can see the lack of detail/variety of colour coding will further exacerbate any future troubleshooting. I will be consolidating my build notes so that a future owner can at least have some idea behind the method to my madness. However, on a positive note the fuse box uses ATM mini fuses and this 20 fuse module nestles perfectly behind the tunnel cover out of sight, but is relatively easy to access!
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Thanks BDA
Next time I'll take more consideration. Whaddya think of the steering wheel? My thought is that It doesn't work with the interior looks wise, but it is great in the hands and the flat bottom makes it much easier to clear the knees!
There is a bit of a "fight" between the modern steering wheel and the classic (antique) interior. On the other hand, if it makes you more comfortable, that would be important. I have the stock wheel in my car. I would prefer a smaller diameter and thicker wheel but I can't see the water temp gauge otherwise. Maybe one day, I'll decide that I don't really need to monitor the water temp that closely and get a racier wheel but the stock wheel has advantages so I'll keep it for now. I guess that's a long way of saying it's your balance between aesthetics, form, and function.
As for your wiring mods, I think the plugs are a great idea. Anything that makes the wiring less of a mess is a good thing. Many years ago, I read about a guy who did a similar thing. I don't think I ever saw a picture of what he did but from what it sounded like, he had one big plug that all the wires of the dash went to so unplugging that one one plug allowed him to pull the dash out. Your setup seems pretty similar. Having had to work on my dash wiring and other things attached to the dash (access the wires for the emergency flasher switch, attempt to take the broken windshield washer pump off the dash, install a second radio, etc) anything that allows you to take the dash off easily is a good thing.
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You did a great job Jason 👍👍, you did what I’m still cooking up. Did you also add a cannon plug to the front and back sections for faster repairs? Example: dash removal?
Dakazman
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Dakazman.
No. I didn't do the firewall. I decided against. I couldn't see how to position the connection point where it would be hidden, and be accessible. On the engine bay side there is a tight angle (hard to get a hand in there to unplug), and on the cabin side (I felt) it might be hard to bury under the cover.
I would be interested in seeing what you come up with.
Oops! I think I misunderstood you. There are 3 plugs for the wiring. The 4 screws that hold the panel. The 2 nuts that hold the support brackets to the door light switch. 2 bolts for the dash to tunnel. The 2 bolts for the steering column. Remove the wheel and the dash is out. The pad floats above the support that the demister assembly is now bolted to.
Hope that answers your question
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Jason,
Thanks for the answer. From what I see from other pictures of members cars are that the harness is entering the engine compartment on the right lower center of the firewall. I am finishing up my entire firewall So changes may be made easier now , then as you stated as very tight. I will when I get back to my wiring board.
Your picture also showed me where to bring my speedometer cable up. Have you looked into using electrical lacing cord on your harness instead of tie raps? There are many videos online showing how to tie .
There are also many other benefits over tieraps.
Dakazman
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Dakazman
Ooh. Thanks for the tip. Never heard of electrical lacing cord. I'll have a look.