Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Off Topic Subjects => Topic started by: Dan C 2624R on Tuesday,October 15, 2019, 07:37:39 PM
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Saw this tonight when I went to Europa Groups on Lotus. I am am a member there along with a few others here. I started there but migrated easily to this forum.
Here's what Yahoo says:
Understand what's changing in Yahoo Groups
Yahoo has made the decision to no longer allow users to upload content to the Yahoo Groups site. Beginning October 21, you won't be able to upload any more content to the site, and as of December 14 all previously posted content on the site will be permanently removed. You'll have until that date to save anything you've uploaded.
What features will go away?
Files
Polls
Links
Photos
Folders
Calendar
Database
Attachments
Conversations
Email Updates
Message Digest
Message History
What will happen to the site?
The Yahoo Groups site will continue to exist, however, all public groups will be made private or restricted. Any new group members will need to request an invite or be invited by an admin. Admins will still be able to manage various group settings, though some functionality will be limited.
What will happen on October 21st?
On October 21st, you will no longer be able to upload any content to the site. To share info with members of your groups, you'll continue to be able to do so via email.
How can I keep my Yahoo Groups content?
Photos and files can be saved right from the Yahoo Groups site, or you can download your data from the Privacy Dashboard.
Will I be able to use Yahoo Groups going forward?
You'll still be able to communicate with your groups via email and search for private groups on the site. In addition, admins will continue to have limited access to group settings and administration tools.
Was this article helpful? Yes No
Personally, I am glad I found this forum and all the folks here.
Dan
73 TC 2624R
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I much prefer the format of a forum to yahoo's email list. You can keep threads separate, inbed pictures and links, and you don't get a bunch of junk in the posts.
I suppose yahoo will get out of the email list business and that will be sad because there is a lot of information in old yahoo group posts.
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I think that action pretty much kills off the Yahoo Groups and personally I'm surprised it's not happened before now. I'm on the daily digest feed so I don't know how it works on single email feeds but there's no advertising that I can see, so unless they are scanning emails and using directed marketing then I don't see what they get out of it. The other aspect is that I think it appeals more to older users and that's an ever-shrinking market; I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the overall Groups membership is dropping and it's sustained by a relatively few core members.
I realise that not everyone prefers a forum like this one but I reckon the change, either to this format or a facebook style alternative is the way the world is going. But as we know, forums have changed a lot from the early BBS things. I've just read a post in the digest concerning the "it comes in my mailbox but I have to log into a forum to find things out". I think that's a misconception or at least not wholly accurate. I get emails from this forum, in fact I had one saying "new topic" which is why I came here !
For me the big loss will be the files section so I'd hope that it can be incorporated into the knowledgebase and held on the same server. Perhaps I shouldn't but I'll single out Tim Engel and say I'll really miss his technical posts. Even before this announcement I'll admit to copying his latest ones on the transaxle topic and storing them in my "Europa Notes" folder just in case I don't find them through the knowledgebase when I need to !
On the positive side, if everyone did migrate to this forum just think how good the collective knowledge would be.....
Brian
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I agree with BDA that the forum format has so much more potential for proper organization and providing posterity for our beloved cars. The Yahoo information is buried deep for me and I often get frustrated and stop looking there as it is either not intuitive or too wordy. The forum format with pictures and descriptions provide a powerful how-to information center for us all.
I think a big shout out for Joe and all his work administrating this forum is due, I really love coming here daily to see what is happening in the group.
Cheers,
Ross
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I agree with BDA that the forum format has so much more...
I think a big shout out for Joe and all his work administrating this forum is due, I really love coming here daily to see what is happening in the group.
Cheers,
Ross
I’ll Second that. :lotus: JOE!
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I agree. Thank you Joe.
Dan
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[/quote]
I’ll Second that.
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So moved! Thanks Joe!
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Since we all seem to agree that the files would be worth saving, I see two options. We could download all the files and put them in a new forum (i.e. Yahoo files). Or we could post them in the Technical Articles forum.
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On the positive side, if everyone did migrate to this forum just think how good the collective knowledge would be.....
I've been watching the membership number (kind of a hobby! :) ) and so far we've been stuck at 971 for a little while so there's no evidence of a migration yet but I'm with you, Brian. I hope it happens. In fact, I think there has been a slow migration over the last couple of years but I'm waiting for the final wave.
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I suspect most of the Yahoo group are already registered here but probably don't post so often because they prefer the email format of Yahoo where it's easier to respond directly to an email that lands in your inbox. Whether that will change or not I don't know, maybe Facebook will take over the role for "instant messages" if that's what's wanted. What is clear is that if there's a need for a repository of practical knowledge about running these 50yr old cars in the modern world, then Joe's forum is now the biggest game in town.
Personally I would like to see the Yahoo files going over to Lotus Europa Central because I think that's a more logical place for that sort of data and given they would be alongside the knowledgebase then perhaps they could be incorporated into the search engine, if only on main titles.
I've just re-read the list of what's going and see my subscription format, the message digest, is one of the casualties. That's a bit of a downer and probably signals the end of my membership there because I never liked the individual emails format.
Brian
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You may be right about any migration, Brian. As for the files, I suppose the context of the Documentation page could be expanded but Dan, who deserves our appreciation for taking over the site, hasn't been very active with it. I sent him a plan I found for gas struts for the boot. He said he would post it and when he didn't I reminded him. He said he'd get it soon but soon never came. I also get the feeling that with the lack of updates, that site has gotten quite stagnant. Obviously, it is still a good reference, and I use it frequently, but I wish our Lotus Joe had taken over. It's a bit sad because there are a lot of great features that if kept up to date would be very interesting and valuable. I'm a member of the Lotus Europa page on Facebook but I don't like Facebook and from what I can tell, they don't keep a very long history of posts (since I don't like it, I don't spend a lot of time on it so I could be wrong here). It also doesn't seem to lend itself to long detailed posts.
I think you're right that this forum, Joe's brainchild, is the biggest game in town. For that reason, I think the Yahoo files would make a nice addition here. I looked at a couple dozen files and many have no description other than the filename and some are just pictures. It was my thought that if we do store them here, we might store pretty much all of them because even a picture of somebody's car that was being sold in 2006 might give someone an idea for their car. But that's just a thought.
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:) we have similar thoughts on Facebook....
Despite lots of our friends being on there and constantly going on about it, it's a method that I struggle with. For instant communication it's great but like you I don't see it as a long term storage for detailed info, either a forum, dedicated website or wiki is the logical place for me. I also don't like typing stuff on a phone or tablet when I have a proper keyboard on a desk !
Having said that, I just logged into the Yahoo site to see what I might be able to contribute to the pot.
Looking at the photograph section, I think that's toast should Yahoo ever decide to delete the data. Too many photos to categorise or download unless there's an option to download a complete album at one click. (haven't seen it, need to look deeper).
The Files section I reckon is saveable. 158mb scattered over 2 or 3 pages of files and as they're in folders it would be easy to replicate that structure on a hard disk if only as a temporary store. I'll make a start on that and see how it goes. I'm not sure how it would translate to a forum format but if we have the data to hand then at least there's options to discuss.
watch this space....
Brian
Update. I've just timed and downloaded the first 10 folders and it's taken under 5 minutes so it's do-able.
Looking through other folders, one thing that does come across is the variety of formats with lots of images just "thrown in a bin" without labelling - ie "IMGxxxx.jpg". It strikes me that if we are to retain the value and be able to find them in future it might be easier to transfer them, along with any accompanying text, into a single PDF file representing that folder.
Anyway I'll download the raw data later today and then we'll have options to discuss.
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I think you're right that the pictures are lost (not only because of the number but also the lack of context) but the files and the pictures in the fils section are salvageable. Usually, the filename gives enough information for you to know what the idea is and we can provide some text in the subject and maybe the post to explain it. Discussions could follow of course.
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There were lots of word documents and PDFs even if Joe thought we could start a new section for old Yahoo documents and get the more formally written documents hosted here it would be great. Each document could be a new thread and any updates on the how-to information could be added afterwards easily. It is just a though and don't know if that will come with a big bill for bandwidth and storage or if this is all running for free right now with Joe managing it. Maybe Joe could help us understand if that would work and not put extra cost on things or if we need to open up to donations or advertising to pay for the bandwidth to keep this information accessible and current.
R
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Update folks.....
I've gone through the files section and downloaded probably 90-95% of them, there isn't as much as you might think but if the plug gets pulled early, the data is secure. The folders missed out are when someone has been selling parts or cars and it's basically an advert.
There's what I'd call a "bin full" of data in various formats dating back to 1999 and some of it (eg UK tyre data) is time limited and probably doesn't apply because if you wanted tyres you'd scan for what's available rather than looking at old data.
On the plus side there's some good stuff and some things would go right into a technical article thread because it's presented as such. Over the next few days I'll look at what's there and try to get it into categories based on the workshop manual sections, then sub-divide it into S2/TC variants. (not much S1 stuff there guys). For example, there's a few gearshift mods, NG3 conversions & data, cable shifts, etc. which would fall into "F-Transmission" and easy to find.
If I can get it into that format it should be usable and if anyone wants a .zip file it wouldn't be a massive download. 150mb or thereabouts un-compressed so we're not talking about massive downloads or storage.
Brian
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Thanks for doing all that, Brian! If somebody wants a zip file of it, you'll need to upload it to something like google drive and share it with people who want it.
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I also have about 90 percent saved. The download files are not going through, probably because of high volume.
Dakazman
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Thanks for doing all that work Dave and Brian.
I hope to be able to get some of the files to save as I can't complete any download due to the traffic.
I was hoping to wait out the initial flurry and try again in a few days.
Dan
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I probably missed the congestion because I'm over the pond in a different time zone.
Question to anyone who knows....
I have a google email which comes with all sorts of other rubbish but I notice one of those is storage space. If I put the whole lot up there as a zip file, could everyone access it or would I have to specifically "share" it with individuals ? I've used large file transfer services to send designs but they are one to one things, not public.
Brian
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You may be right about any migration, Brian. As for the files, I suppose the context of the Documentation page could be expanded but Dan, who deserves our appreciation for taking over the site, hasn't been very active with it. I sent him a plan I found for gas struts for the boot. He said he would post it and when he didn't I reminded him. He said he'd get it soon but soon never came. I also get the feeling that with the lack of updates, that site has gotten quite stagnant. Obviously, it is still a good reference, and I use it frequently, but I wish our Lotus Joe had taken over. It's a bit sad because there are a lot of great features that if kept up to date would be very interesting and valuable. I'm a member of the Lotus Europa page on Facebook but I don't like Facebook and from what I can tell, they don't keep a very long history of posts (since I don't like it, I don't spend a lot of time on it so I could be wrong here). It also doesn't seem to lend itself to long detailed posts.
Dan Morrison has a lot on his plate managing both the Yahoo Europa mail list and the LEC. I've corresponded with Dan on various topics this past year and he indicated that he is slammed at work. I don't know how much time he can put into the Yahoo problem looming big in the very near future, hopefully he's looking into it and will give us an update.
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I figured he was busy with one thing or another or more probably many others, so I hope it didn't sound like I was coming down on him. I hope when he gets lose from the yahoo group, he'll be able to devote more time to it. It's a great site!
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Brian, to share a file on google drive with the forum do this
1. go to drive.google.com
2. right click on the item you want to share
3. choose "Share" from the right-click menu
4. click "Get shareable link" - top right corner of pop up window
5. copy the link it gives you and paste a copy of that link here
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Gideon,
Thanks for that, you've explained it very well. I don't really use online storage (a true Luddite, if it's not on a 5.25" floppy then it's not safe :) ) so your help is appreciated.
I still think it would be preferable to have the files hosted on a recognised Europa site but can also see how much work would be involved. I thought a shared google drive (or anything else) that people can access to get their own copies might be an interim solution "just in case".
I have now got everything sorted in folders - eg top folder might be "F-Transmission" and that contains info on gearboxes, the several versions of cable shifters and reverse lock out, etc. so it should be easy to find. I'll give it some more thought, upload a few sample folders up to the google drive and then try for the shareable link on this thread. If it works Joe can either host the files on here or just the link if they don't fit in easily.
Brian
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can someone check to see if this works ?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1uOmTsXhIF3qlutvCvmY8sAaliwc8Rwbj (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1uOmTsXhIF3qlutvCvmY8sAaliwc8Rwbj)
you should see a google drive with a folder called "Lotus Europa Data". Inside that folder will be another called "F-Transmission" which contains service bulletins and folders for the Yahoo files on transmissions.
If it works then as an interim measure I'll add the other workshop manual sections and hopefully anyone can make their own copies. I think. (it was far easier when we just handed each other discs)
Brian
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Hi Brian,
Wow, you have a lot of info saved. After figuring out how to use Google docs, I was able to the files and folders in your Transmissions folder.
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrookm Ca
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Wow Brian! That looks great! You've obviously put some work into that. Thanks!
I was able to download a file so that works as I expected. I do have a couple small organizational suggestions you might consider. In "5sp Reverse Lockout" there are plans for a reverse lockout device. Then in "Modifications to HTU35K" then in "Drivetrain Europa Reverse Gear Spring" there is a picture of (your?) reverse spring set up. Maybe, those two could be combined since they perform a similar function. Also in "Transmission - Clutch Gearbox NG3 Data" there is a file "NG3 Gearbox Fitment and ratios.ods." This contains ratios for more than the NG3 so it might deserve a different name and maybe be put in the "F - Transmission" folder.
Please don't take any of this as criticism! I think you've done a fantastic job and your organizing it into manual sections is a great idea! I suggested to Joe that you and he discuss how this would fit in the forum so I expect he'll contact you.
Thank you for doing this. If you want to divvy some of this stuff up, I'm available.
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Thanks guys, I'm really pleased that you can get in. I had tried it but as it's my account then I ought to be able to see it !
I have several other folders to go up and yes, there is duplication, in fact there's duplication on the Yahoo files folder as well. As I expect this to be a temporary holding storage I've not bothered too much about slimming it down other than removing the obvious adverts where someone's been selling their car and posted photos.
The "modifications to HTU" folder has crept through by accident. On my hard drive I've got the manual in sections and have any mods/extra info alongside. I copied the structure to use for Yahoo files and must have missed that one because I know I've deleted some of them.
Keep an eye on the link and see if you can access the others when they go up. Next is "0 - Introduction" and "X-Documents and Brochures" where I've put the owners manuals plus articles, etc. Mostly from Yahoo but there might be a few others I've picked up but you can never have too much to read about Lotus's..... ;)
Edit to add....
I decided to copy everything up as it is. There's some non-Yahoo stuff there but it's all Europa so that can't hurt. If you look at the image I've posted that's what you should see and hopefully you'll get to the sub folders. If some of you guys could just try a few random sub-folders and tell me if you run into walls.
At some point over the next week I'll strip out my stuff and create a RAR file that you can download for your very own version of Yahoo......
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Wow Brian!!! I just went to your link and there was a page full of folders all organized!!! Very impressive and thank you!
What are your plans for this? Are you (and Joe) going to provide a link on a sticky post or are you going to incorporate it into the forum directly? On one hand, I can see how this is pretty self contained and fairly easy to navigate once you play with it a little. And, of course, this is a pretty simple facility to download documents. On the other hand, it might be useful to have comments associated with a document. For example, someone might provide sources or part numbers that the original doc left out or that have changed since it was written. Also an improvement of the original idea could be documented. I'm thinking that the forum format lends itself to that pretty easily.
Has this been set up so that anybody can view and download the files. I suspect some who are still on the yahoo group might be interested in this.
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What are your plans for this? Are you (and Joe) going to provide a link on a sticky post or are you going to incorporate it into the forum directly?
erm, erm... :-[ I haven't really thought that far, my aim was to ensure that I'd got a set of the Yahoo files for future reference because I could see it vanishing "overnight". If I can share that with everyone else, then it's even better. It can stay there for as long as it's useful because I don't use the storage myself. If Dan takes it on with the main Europa reference website then that's fine as well, I can delete them when no longer required.
On the other hand, it might be useful to have comments associated with a document. For example, someone might provide sources or part numbers that the original doc left out or that have changed since it was written. Also an improvement of the original idea could be documented. I'm thinking that the forum format lends itself to that pretty easily.
The idea of updating mods with current part numbers, etc, is the way forward and the sort of thing I think you could do better with a "wiki" format rather than a forum thread. For the forum you'd need individual threads per article to stop it becoming a dustbin collection where everything just gets thrown in. I suspect that would end up in a mess with stuff getting lost.
Has this been set up so that anybody can view and download the files. I suspect some who are still on the yahoo group might be interested in this.
Yes, I think it's general public access. I followed Gideon's post and it appears that by making the top folder available to "anyone with the link" then you also get sub folders, which is pretty much what I wanted. I looked at storing it on a seperate section on my website where we could have made navigation even easier, but I've not got enough space or bandwidth on my subscription, so the freebie google drive seems like a good stopgap.
Brian
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I was thinking in terms of having a thread for each picture (or group of pictures) but thinking more about it, I guess that might be much more difficult to navigate, not to mention be a lot of work and you've done a super job with this! I would like a way to comment on the pictures such as modifications, sources, etc. but I guess we can hope that people who have tried what is in the pictures could post about them in the Garage or Technical Articles sections.
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Europa TC , you did an excellent job sorting and saving all Yahoo’s files.
Dakazman
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final (?) update....
there's now a "YahooFiles.zip" in the root folder, first thing you see under all the sections. It's about 240mb which is a tad more than the original Yahoo files but not excessive. That's because I've left in the brake conversions I did on my car and also converted one or two folders which were just jpg files into a pdf which makes it easier to follow the mod.
If you want this on your own HD, download the zip & you should get all the folders above in the same format.
From the latest on the Yahoo thread it looks like they've got something sorted now with GGLC stepping in to help out, so maybe this folder won't be needed for long anyway. But "just in case...." :)
Brian
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Thanks for all your great work on this, Brian!
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Brian,
I too appreciate your work on this. I was stymied by not being able to get anything after a day or two. Now I do have it all.
Dan.
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Glad to be able to do a bit for the community. Hopefully it will soon be redundant as the group finds a new home, but if not it's no hassle to leave it there.
Brian