Author Topic: Experieces in Racing an Europa  (Read 39040 times)

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Offline LotusJoe

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #15 on: Sunday,August 12, 2012, 12:42:31 PM »
When I lived in Antwerp I loved going to Zolder. One of my favorite tracks in Europe. It's a shame Formula One no longer races there.
Joe Irwin
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Offline benbeames

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #16 on: Sunday,August 12, 2012, 03:16:09 PM »
Looking forward to hearing how you do!

Offline Jas

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #17 on: Monday,August 13, 2012, 12:47:26 AM »
Looking forward for your report. 
Good luck at the race.  :beerchug:

Jannik
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You can do it fast
You can do it cheap
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Offline Mecky

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday,August 21, 2012, 02:40:40 AM »
Hi there,

back from Zolder. The weather was great. Too great. Around 35°C (95°F) and sunshine. Our water cooler was not able to perform good enough. Because of that we had to slow down, before we could go really fast. 2:05 min was the fastest time, but far away from limit.

In the race we had to quit, because the water temperature increased from 100°C (212°F) to more than 120°C (248°F) in about 20 seconds. Maybe the head-gasket again... We will have a look today.

But we learned:

1.) The cooling system is not good enough. Maybe the cooler is to small or the pump is not good enough.
2.) The suspension works well.
3.) The brakes have to be improved with a balance bar system.

Hopefully the engine is not affected to bad. Our aim is to improve the cooling system and brakes and then go for the four hours race at Nürburgring in October. The next race in Assen (NL) is too close (3 weeks).
« Last Edit: Wednesday,August 22, 2012, 01:57:31 AM by Mecky »

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday,August 21, 2012, 09:43:15 AM »
Let's hope the temperature rise isn't anything serious and you're back on track without too much trouble. 

Looking at the pictures on your website and thinking about the cooling problem, have you changed the radiator for a smaller one ?  The one on my car seems to be a bit wider, or at least the casing looks to be wider than the one on your car.

Going back to the topic of weight reduction, one thing that recently came to mind was the front hubs. Do you have alloy castings for the hub rather than the cast iron ?  I once had a Marcos and fitted alloy front hubs to that, they were quite a common thing a few years ago. Actually, thinking whilst writing that, it was probably 15yrs ago that I did that particular mod.

Anyway, back on topic. Nice to hear results, good or bad because everyone can learn something. And if racing was easy we'd all be doing it  :)

Brian

Offline benbeames

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday,August 21, 2012, 09:54:19 AM »
My radiator is thicker then the one in your pictures too.  I talked to a guy a while back who used to race a Europa in the 1980's and he said he used to run two radiators in series.  One on the left and one on the right.  That always seemed like a somewhat easy mod (relatively speaking of course) to me if you need more cooling.

Ben

Offline LotusJoe

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday,August 21, 2012, 11:10:49 AM »
One thing you might consider is that the temperature switch for the gauge is at the engine block, while the the otter switch for the fan is on the radiator. I would look at moving the otter switch for the fan to the engine block. That would cause the fan to activate earlier. Also I had a S-2 in the 70's that was always a challenge to cool. I ultimately built a duct from fiber glass that covered the the grill opening and then angled over to cover the entire radiator so that all the air from the front of the car was diverted to the radiator. I then made a small opening and ducted some air from there to the cabin fan. This helped immensely. The tandem radiators is also a good idea. There is also a seal that runs across the storage compatment lip that seals the lower compartment. It is usually fitted to the lid.

Joe Irwin
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Offline 3929R

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday,August 21, 2012, 01:23:09 PM »
the otter switch for the fan is on the radiator. I would look at moving the otter switch for the fan to the engine block. That would cause the fan to activate earlier...
I have a manual over ride switch for my radiator fan.  But my twink is driven on the street and I use the switch when in town or in traffic.  How much cooling effect does the fan have when driving at speed? and what are the slowest speeds when on the track?  Sorry, I'm clueless as I've never driven on a track, much less raced on one... 
Mark
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Offline LotusJoe

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday,August 21, 2012, 04:27:04 PM »
There is a lot of air that goes throughout the front compartment when the front lid is closed. The fan obviously helps push air across the radiator at low speeds or when stopped. It also help maintain a constant flow of air when at speed. The air can go through the radiator opening or the slot between  the lip of the upper storage compartment or through the cabin fan opening. That is why it is important to make sure the foam gasket that is glued to the trunk lid is in place.  If you have removed the cabin fan that hole should be sealed.  Long ago I replaced my stock fan with a Spal pusher. It's been a while so I can't remember what size I used.
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Offline Mecky

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday,August 22, 2012, 02:14:53 AM »
Hi,

nice to see that you all think about that problem :-) .
Our fan is a racing part, which is light and transports more air than the stock fan. It is started manually.
Two serial fans could have an effect. We will also try a bigger radiator (aluminium).

There is a lot of air running into the grill, while racing. The lowest speed is around 60 or 70 km/h and the fastest around 200 km/h. This depends on the race track. Some are better for the cooling and some are worse. But we want to be able to race on all tracks and at all weather conditions.

@LotusJoe: Was your airbox comparable with the air deflection, which we use in front boot?

Our front hubs are steel. There can we win a few kg's. How much kg's could that be?
« Last Edit: Wednesday,August 22, 2012, 03:14:48 PM by Mecky »

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday,August 22, 2012, 03:32:13 AM »
Hi,

these are the same type that I used. (this looks a private sale, I have no affiliation)

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/44190/triumph_herald_spitfire_alloy_front_hubs_with_studs.html

http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/product/alloyhubs.html&xsl=product.xsl

I bought mine from Europa Spares many years ago, you bought a blank hub and they fitted the studs & PCD you wanted. They were expensive (compared to stock Triumph hubs) even then, but notably lighter because it's just aluminium vs cast iron. I don't know the weight saving but the SG of Al is roughly 1/3 steel so you could expect to save between 1/2 & 2/3 the weight of standard hubs.

Reading your comments on air flow speeds, it might be controversial but I can't see a fan making that much difference under normal running because you should have plenty of air going through. The call on the foam strip at the front boot is a good one, if that's not in place on the bonnet you will lose quite a lot of potential cooling air into the cabin or heater.

Brian

Offline benbeames

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday,August 22, 2012, 09:40:11 AM »
Dang it!  I don't NEED aluminum hubs, but now that I know these are out there, I really want a pair. . . .   If only I got paid to work on my car.


Offline Mecky

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday,August 22, 2012, 03:06:02 PM »
I would love some, too, but there is so much money, which must be spended for other things. We have essential problems, yet.
When we solved them, we are able to solve luxury problems like smaller weight reductions, by changing parts.

Maybe in winter, when our car, survived a three or four hours race again, we can attend to that :)

We want to finish on the next race without fail! After our good race in Hockenheim in April 2012, I already thought that our car is very dependable... It's not, but it will be soon!
« Last Edit: Wednesday,August 22, 2012, 03:21:19 PM by Mecky »

Offline Serge

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #28 on: Saturday,August 25, 2012, 12:40:03 PM »
Hi Mecky,

I too am building a Lotus Europa race car, and my home track is Zolder, and I knew you were racing last week. However, I was away at university so I could come to take a look at your car.

I've also looked  at the fhr-langstreckencup as a race series for the future, however I need to look some more at all the regulations.

I'm building an Appendix K Period G2 race car. Your car isn't made to appendix K regulations, so you can make some more modifications and run a different engine than I would be using.

Do you find your oil cooler works fine in the rear? Because I was thinking to place mine in the front like the 47's had.

Also, what discs, pads and rear brake shoes are you using? I read you had some problem with the rear brakes, have you tried using another size master cylinder for the rear? And are you running a racing brake shoe? That could make a big difference.

Kind regards,

Serge

Offline Mecky

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Re: Experieces in Racing an Europa
« Reply #29 on: Sunday,August 26, 2012, 04:08:33 AM »
Hi Serge,

our car is made to FIA Appendix K regulations! Every car in FHR Langstreckencup is built to FIA App. K. Because we are using the crossflow engine, we have to race the Two-Seater-Racing-Car class instead of the "ordinary" GT class (we are classified in Period GR instead of G2). We can use the more powerful engine, but our class-opponents are very much better than in GT class.

Our oil cooler works well. Normally (when temperature is not at 35°C) we need to warm up the engine at least 30 minutes, before the race starts. If we don't warm it up that long, the oil temperature is much to low at the start.
In Zolder the oil temperature was too high, because the radiator was not able to cool the water good enough at this air temperature. The whole engine got very hot and the head gasket melted away.

We use the original brakes. Only at front we have racing brake pads from Ferrodo. Rear shoes are stock. We are going to test other master cylinders and racing shoes.