Author Topic: Twin DCOE 40 manifold for wedge head engines (697/821)  (Read 3567 times)

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Offline Serge

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Twin DCOE 40 manifold for wedge head engines (697/821)
« on: Thursday,January 23, 2014, 09:05:43 AM »

Hello everyone,

I have been thinking about making a twin weber 40 DCOE (sidedraft) intake manifold for the original Renault Europa engines (Wedge head - 697/821).

I have been working on a design in Solidworks with the intention of having the designs 3D printed to aide manufacturing. However, there were a couple of downsides to this, mainly heat resistant materials and cost. There are some heat resistant materials available (like 3D printed stainless steel), but a set of manifolds would cost about $4000 dollars to be 3D printed.

The design needs some finalising and some finetuning, but the biggest part is there. I would need to adjust some lean angles and maybe modify the runner length to adjust the position of the carbs relating to the exhausts/cooling pipes. Runner length in this design is +/- 115mm.

But if there is enough interest, I may be able to call around to get some prices to have them cast in aluminium. But this would only be viable if there is enough interest because the minimum production would be much more than the singles would be for 3D printing. Also, the 3D printing would mean that I would not be taking any financial risk because you would be able to order this directly from the printing company. So if anyone would be interested after I got a price from the foundry, I would need payment in advance.


So please let me know if this is a viable idea, if not, I don't want to be spending too much time on finalizing this design.


Kind regards,

Serge
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Offline LotusJoe

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Re: Twin DCOE 40 manifold for wedge head engines (697/821)
« Reply #1 on: Thursday,January 23, 2014, 09:42:01 AM »
Serge,
I have a couple of 3D printers. If you like I could print them out and send them to you for a mockup.
Joe Irwin
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Offline Serge

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Re: Twin DCOE 40 manifold for wedge head engines (697/821)
« Reply #2 on: Thursday,January 23, 2014, 09:55:00 AM »
Hi Joe,


Thanks for the offer, but I can print them fairly cheap at my University's fablab for mock up. It will be a bit cheaper with me being in Europe, shipping is always a big cost. But I'll need to tweak the design a bit more before I'm ready for printing.


Kind regards,

Serge

Offline exarkun1178

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Re: Twin DCOE 40 manifold for wedge head engines (697/821)
« Reply #3 on: Thursday,January 23, 2014, 06:44:55 PM »
What are the advantages?  if there is a performance gain, i am happy to go in with you

Offline Serge

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Re: Twin DCOE 40 manifold for wedge head engines (697/821)
« Reply #4 on: Thursday,January 23, 2014, 10:10:32 PM »
Yes, there is a performance gain. If you are using a 821 wedge head (non-siamesed intake ports), you will have individual runners and butterflies on each of the cylinders. Also, you are increasing the amount of air and fuel that go into the engine, and this, together with a free flow exhaust will increase performance.

As you might have read on the Yahoo-group, there is a cheaper (and more modern) way of getting the same results by using motorcycle carburetors on a fabricated manifold. But this is not an option of you want to keep with the period specifications (either by choice or (racing) regulations).

Serge


Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Twin DCOE 40 manifold for wedge head engines (697/821)
« Reply #5 on: Friday,January 24, 2014, 09:49:26 AM »
I can appreciate that a cast Al manifold is always going to look better, but why not simply fabricate one ? From the work you've shown us so far you clearly have fabrication talents and those designs don't look that difficult to make from steel, even with stainless for the inlet tubes if you wish.

Many years ago I fabricated an inlet manifold for the Marcos I had at the time as the Volvo manifold it came with had very little clearance and a tendency to hit the bonnet with the tops of the carburetors. (which star cracked & spoilt my paintwork ! )  It was nothing fancy, just 3/8" mild steel cut & drilled to form flanges and spaced apart by cut pipe sections but it worked reasonably well and didn't really take that much effort to put together.  From what I've seen of your work, I bet you could do much better than I did.

Brian

Offline Serge

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Re: Twin DCOE 40 manifold for wedge head engines (697/821)
« Reply #6 on: Sunday,January 26, 2014, 01:16:44 PM »
I think you might be right Brian!


I misjudged the interest in a cast manifold. A fabricated one will work just as well and shouldn't be too difficult.


Serge

Offline cal44

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Re: Twin DCOE 40 manifold for wedge head engines (697/821)
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday,January 28, 2014, 03:40:56 PM »
Serge, I'm with Brian on this.  It appears you have the talent.  Keep posting them pix
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Offline Valerio Leone

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Re: Twin DCOE 40 manifold for wedge head engines (697/821)
« Reply #8 on: Thursday,February 13, 2014, 05:57:25 PM »
Ciao Serge,

nice design, but I think the weak point of our wedge engine is actually the port design.
The throat is too large and you loose pressure there.
That's why even if we use an individual runner the power do not actually improve too much.
I'm pretty sure now that improving the throat design (welding Al to decrease the width) you will gain steam.
so  :welder: