Author Topic: Europa on Overhaulin'  (Read 16687 times)

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Offline LeftAngle

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Re: Europa on Overhaulin'
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2013, 11:18:55 AM »
We already know that there's low supply... Jay Leno has done a pretty good job of increasing the demand (Chip Foose as well).

In the U.S., I think low supply has caused some of the low demand when it comes to the Europa.  With the exception of mine, I've virtually seen no Europas on the road in the past 20 years.   I don't go to events where they may be gathering, but neither does the general public.  Overhaulin has put the Europa in front of the average car afficionato and possibly on the map.  Time will tell, but if more are fixed up and put on the road, then they may get more press, and that leads to demand.

What ya think?
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Offline LotusJoe

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Re: Europa on Overhaulin'
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2013, 12:58:10 PM »
I think in the big picture the show will add little interest to the Europa. The cars production was just to small. For what ever reason it just does not enjoy "Exotic" status in terms of increasing the value over time. With the exception of a rare sale the cars go fairly cheap. But, I also think we are our own worse enemies. Many times when a car comes up for sale, we as owners usually bash the car for being over priced. I see the same thing over on the Porsche 914 forum. The Europa is much like another car I owned; a Citroen SM. One of the most exotic cars built, but still is very reasonably priced, even today.

I'm hoping someday they will sky rocket in price, at least I will come somewhat close to recovering the money I've spent on mine. But then again I really like my car a probably would never sell it; but maybe my heirs will  :confused:   
Joe Irwin
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Offline LeftAngle

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Re: Europa on Overhaulin'
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2013, 07:56:13 AM »
Joe; if any other car on the planet could be compared to the look of the Europa, the CM would probably head the list.  I think looks drive the desire machine, and that may be what's holding the Europa back.  OK, maybe light (mis-interpreted as "cheap") construction too, something the Citroen didn't have to deal with.

As you, I hope the image and value improves, but only my heirs would benefit.  I've already been informed by one of my nephew's wife, not to will it to him.  :confused:
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Offline LotusJoe

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Re: Europa on Overhaulin'
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2013, 05:06:11 PM »
Here are a few photos from the show. These were taken by the son of  Dean Caccavo, one of the attendees of the reveal. Thanks Dean and Austin  :beerchug:

Dean owns the blue car. It is a Zetec conversion.

Here is a link to the photos in the Europa Gallery.

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/album13

Here is the link for Dean's posting on the show.

http://www.vintagemotoring.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2331























 
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 05:17:48 PM by LotusJoe »
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Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Europa on Overhaulin'
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2013, 09:06:43 PM »
Thanks for posting Joe. Whether you agree or not with the mods you can't argue they look well executed with quality workmanship, the paintwork looks great. For me the wheels look too big against the body, but each to their own...

cheers

Brian

Offline cal44

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Re: Europa on Overhaulin'
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2013, 02:54:21 PM »
The wheels seem to much on the red car.........

Both cars look great.  Did they do anything engine wise, brake etc. ?  I normally don't watch car shows........I have a garage full of show........and no go.
Thank you Joe for the pictures.

mike
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Offline Bainford

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Re: Europa on Overhaulin'
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2013, 06:53:03 AM »
Thanks for posting, Joe. Been kinda curious about what all the talk has been about. I can't say that I am enthusiastic about many of the changes made, but over time it would probably grow on me. Some changes look great (love the tail lights). Actually, it looks like a cool car without looking like a Europa. I dare say, though, that the delicate Europa handling has not been considered in the name of customising.

Note to friends and relatives; DO NOT contact Chip Foose to overhaul my Europa. Just saying...
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Offline thehackmechanic

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Re: Europa on Overhaulin'
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2013, 08:08:51 AM »
See my blog post (incredibly, written a day before I purchased my first Europa):

http://thehackmechanic.blogspot.com/
'74 TSC, 20k miles, stored since '79
'73 BMW 3.0CSi
'73 BMW 2002tii
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"Memoirs of a Hack Mechanic: How Fixing Broken BMWs Helped Make Me Whole (a memoir with actual useful stuff)" available at http://amzn.to/10P4QhL

Offline Bainford

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Re: Europa on Overhaulin'
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2013, 07:15:49 AM »
See my blog post (incredibly, written a day before I purchased my first Europa):

http://thehackmechanic.blogspot.com/
Welcome to the forum Mr hackmechanic (Rob?). I read your blog. Very interesting, and I'm going to stop into Chapters this week and look for a copy of your book. I'm doing some writing of my own (purely novis stuff) and I like your writing style and of course subject matter.

Oh, and pull the trigger and get that Europa. Perhaps this forum will inspire you to do just that. I have been a fan of the Europa since I was a kid but knew nothing of ownership until I became serious about getting one. And that didn't happen until I realised that ownership was both possible and practical for an enthusiast of my modest means. It's one of the best things I've ever done. In fact, most of my writing is about Europa ownership.
Cheers :beerchug:
The Twin Cam plays the symphony whilst my right foot conducts the orchestra. At 3800 rpm the Mad Pipe Organ joins in.

Trevor

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Europa on Overhaulin'
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2013, 10:58:31 PM »
Well, I finally caught up with both episodes last night, watched them back to back (my wife was out with the local Women's Institute, so it was just me and the dog.....   we get to use the TV remote, and the dog can sit wherever he feels comfortable   ;)  )

So, what about it ?  Well, I'm not a purist where cars are concerned although I do tend to keep them similar to what they came out of the factory;  my days of frenched-in lights and side exhausts are long gone.  I do like mods that improve or update mechanics, just because Lotus did things one way doesn't mean it's the only solution, but I tend not to get so excited about bodywork mods. 

I'm split between "cool, looks neat" and "uhhh ?".  For example the headlights looked good and no doubt a modern version would have them. The new dash looked good and the retrimming excellent. (although I'm puzzled how they managed to add 2" width to the seats, I thought they were pretty much sized to fit as it was ? ) The CV joints in the drivetrain,  the suspension looked well engineered and I like stuff like that, although you'd need to drive it to see how the mods worked in real life.

"Uhh" moments were when they decided to stiffen the floor for example. uhh ?  When Lotus designed the TC version the first thing they did was to try and increase cabin space from the S2, so these guys take an S2 Europa and shove a load of board and fibreglass on the floor and firewall to reduce space ?  And the "essential"  engine bay inlets behind the doors ?  I thought the engine bay air flow relied on the low pressure area over the rear deck dragging air up from beneath the car to cool the whole volume, surely adding a high level inlet will reduce that effect, the air will go in at high level and straight out of the lid vents ?   Perhaps I'm getting it wrong and the inlet, together with the door/roofline mods are under the "show" rather than "go" banner, which means - "hmm, ok,  if that's what you want".

But overall, yep, I liked the enthusiasm of the program, the quality of the work they were doing and the overall result. When you stand back the car definitely says "Europa" and it's only when you look closer that you see the numerous modifications they've made. A bit like some of the Bank's Europas that I've seen over here, a sort of "Europa for the 21st Century" which is what I think they were aiming for.

Brian

Offline Bainford

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Re: Europa on Overhaulin'
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2013, 06:54:04 AM »
The problem I have with people such as Foose and company messing with cars like this is the lack of proper engineering involved. Their formula works very well for American cars (or any car for that matter) that spends its drive time cruising Main St. A car like the Europa, built with very little reserve factor and engineered as a delicately balanced driving machine, is significantly effected by any modification. Without careful consideration of how any mod would effect the driving dynamics of the machine, one would have to assume that effect will be negative.

Now, I must admit that I haven't seen these episodes, but I have watched the show many times. Foose and crew do great work, but they are car customisers, not engineers. Their primary concern is with a vehicles asthetics. Ad hoc changes to suspensions, drivetrain, areodynamics, etc can't be expected to be actual improvements just because they look cool... unless of course, looking cool is the primary goal.

Anyway, it's interesting to see the Europa getting this kind of exposure.
The Twin Cam plays the symphony whilst my right foot conducts the orchestra. At 3800 rpm the Mad Pipe Organ joins in.

Trevor

Offline 3929R

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Re: Europa on Overhaulin'
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2013, 11:16:00 AM »
I'd really like to hear a review from the owner when the car is back on the road.
Mark
Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Europa on Overhaulin'
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2013, 01:32:12 PM »
I'd really like to hear a review from the owner when the car is back on the road.

I think that would be the acid test Mark. I don't actually recall it being driven under it's own power at any point, it was always being pushed around in the shots which did surprise me given the amount of time they put into the car.

I think some of the mods were forced onto them; they picked a Porsche gearbox and presumably that dictated the driveshafts and need for rear suspension design because presumably they could no longer use the driveshart as an upper link which loads into the gearbox ?  And towards the end when they lifted the body and started cutting the front of the chassis to change the front suspension, that looked another "doh" modification that suddenly appeared - wheelarch clearance maybe ?

But overall their work looked sensible if you were into changing the fundamental design so much. A rear disc conversion, rose jointed fully adjustable suspension and very chunky rear hub carriers look the sort of things you'd need if you changed the complete drivetrain and boosted the power from 125bhp to the 300bhp they claimed.  It's not the sort of thing I'd do to my own car, but interesting to watch.

Brian

Offline LotusJoe

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Re: Europa on Overhaulin'
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2013, 09:49:57 AM »
I found a side by side comparison photo.

« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 08:46:02 AM by LotusJoe »
Joe Irwin
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Offline YellowS4DHC

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Re: Europa on Overhaulin'
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2013, 05:04:51 PM »
A bit late on this thread, but a few comments FWIW. 

Personally, I never cared for the premise of Overhaulin' where the work is rushed to meet a contrived schedule deadline.  When you rush things, the results are usually not optimum.  I would extend Mark's earlier comment and like to ask what the owner thinks 6 months or a year from now when the true quality of the product is evident.  Although the car photographs well, it might not appear so good to a person with a critical eye at 2-3 feet.   

(Although not applicable to a fiberglass Lotus, I've seen several shows in the past where they just slathered gobs of body filler on metal and sanded down to get the desired contour instead of working the metal itself and using a minimum of filler; this is not quality work IMHO.)

As for the mods, I tend to agree with other posters that the mechanical upgrades are generally interesting and appealing, but I do wonder how well integrated these mods are.  I would think some track-based suspension tuning and brake balancing would be required before you hand this beast off to someone (if they did this, I missed it).  Also, some of the body work is not to my taste and I believe the wheels are definitely lacking in proportion.

Lastly, I don't think one should get too hung up on the potential future value of these cars.  It's a very rare event when a classic car can be restored and the owner is not underwater (lost money) when the job is complete.  Just put in the money you can afford and enjoy the result.    ;D

 regards
 Rick