Author Topic: The Cosworth YBB Europa  (Read 2571 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Grumblebuns

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Aug 2012
  • Location: San Diego area
  • Posts: 778
Re: The Cosworth YBB Europa
« Reply #15 on: Monday,April 10, 2017, 07:40:39 AM »
It's been a while since I updated my progress on 3631R. I started plumbing the dry sump oil system last Summer and it took all of Summer and part of Fall to mostly complete the pressure portion of the system. The dry sump system consists of a Titan Series 2 three stage pump, Peterson two gallon oil tank,  block off adapter for stock oil filter, and a Setrab remote filter unit. 

I shot myself in the foot right off the bat by ordering an oil tank with -12 AN male fittings thinking I had -12 fittings on the oil pump, not the -10 fittings it has. Making the decision on how to go from a -10 fitting and hose to a -12 fitting took most of the time. Rather than cutting out and re-welding -10 fittings to the oil tank or using adapters, I decided to try to locate fittings that used -10 hose but had -12 fittings. It was harder than you would think. I only found a couple of companies that offered the required fittings.

With fittings located, time to order the hardware, then the second problem cropped up. These particular fittings only come in the crimp style.Once crimped, the clocking of the ends were locked, the hose ends cannot swivel. Not a problem if one end is straight but if both ends are angled, the clocking of the ends have to be specified before hand, almost impossible to convey to the vender for pre-assembled hose and fittings. To get around this issue, I  ordered the hose unassembled and found a local shop that had dies capable of crimping the fittings. The clocking came out very close but not perfect. There is a minor twist on a couple of the hoses but is acceptable. The quality of the local crimping was also not as good as the factory crimps, see the oil pump photos. Overall. I estimate there is almost 21 feet of oil  hose in the engine bay.

The oil tank is vented to a small catch can. At this time I haven't decided on the method on the final destination of the oil vapors, go green and run the vapors to the inlet of the carbs or be a pig polluter and just add a small K&N filter to the catch can and go to atmosphere. I'll make my final decision when I get closer to car completion. One thing I noticed with the YBB motor is that I don't see any type of PCV system. I'm thinking if drilling and fitting a vent hose to the oil filler cap and run that to the carb inlet.

Except for the catch can vent decision, the oil line plumbing is pretty much done. My next system to tackle is wiring. I have the original wiring that came with the car. As is typical with a car that has gone through multiple owners, there are cuts and splices of dubious quality so I've decided to go with a harness from scratch.

Offline Bainford

  • Twin Cam 3682R
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Jul 2012
  • Location: Nova Scotia
  • Posts: 715
Re: The Cosworth YBB Europa
« Reply #16 on: Monday,April 10, 2017, 08:42:50 AM »
Wow Joji, that looks like serious business. Beautiful work.
The Twin Cam plays the symphony whilst my right foot conducts the orchestra. At 3800 rpm the Mad Pipe Organ joins in.

Trevor

Offline BDA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Jul 2012
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 3,235
Re: The Cosworth YBB Europa
« Reply #17 on: Monday,April 10, 2017, 08:55:52 AM »
Good job, Joji! I'm looking forward to future updates!


Have you given any thought to whether you will change your timing belt? I figure it's probably been a while since the PO installed that belt and I assume that belt life is not only measured in miles but also years. I ask because I have a similar situation. I had my belt changed when I put the car on the road back in '99. Now it's been about seventeen years but no more than 15,000 miles. I'm wondering if I should change my belt while my car's laid up.

Offline Grumblebuns

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Aug 2012
  • Location: San Diego area
  • Posts: 778
Re: The Cosworth YBB Europa
« Reply #18 on: Monday,April 10, 2017, 11:57:51 AM »
Good point on the timing belt. It has to be at least 15 years old. I'll put down as another item to order from Burton Power along with a billet aluminum cam cover cap for the vent path.

Offline EuropaTC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Jun 2012
  • Location: Lincolnshire, UK
  • Posts: 1,892
    • LotusLand
Re: The Cosworth YBB Europa
« Reply #19 on: Monday,April 10, 2017, 01:37:01 PM »
Only loosely related but I can add a comment on the cam belt life. When I wrote about the Elise last year one of the reasons for the work was to change the cam belt which happened to be a similar age to what you're discussing. The car hadn't done a great mileage and had spent a couple or so years just sitting around but it was 16 years old, so comparable to yours.

The old belt was unmarked, no cracking even when twisted or flexed hard back and I'm sure if looked at in isolation we'd all say it was good for another few years.  But when I compared it with the new one it was clear there had been some deterioration and the rubber was very slightly harder/less flexible than the new belt.  I think you could infer that the old belt is more likely to develop cracks if worked hard, and let's face it, it's well past the normal recommended change-by date.

Brian

ps - Joji, how do you get an alternator in that engine bay ? Is it buried in the depths of the Y frame ?

Offline Certified Lotus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Aug 2016
  • Location: Princeton, NJ
  • Posts: 508
Re: The Cosworth YBB Europa
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday,April 11, 2017, 05:40:07 AM »
This looks impressive. Will it be a track car?

Offline Grumblebuns

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Aug 2012
  • Location: San Diego area
  • Posts: 778
Re: The Cosworth YBB Europa
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday,April 11, 2017, 12:45:28 PM »
In regards to the timing belt, I hope that it is the stock length. Imagine trying to find a belt for a car/engine never imported to the US at a local parts place.

This car will probably be a mostly track car. It all depends on the overall ground clearance of the sump. I believe this is the reason that the PO went with a dry sump system. I'll be lucky if I end up with four inches of ground clearance when everything is done.

The alternator is located low at the bottom of the engine block just above the sump. I 've added some additional photos of the underside. One observation that is a bit disconcerting is the amount of corrosion on the rear suspension bits. This year has been wetter than normal but that shouldn't have been enough to cause the observed corrosion, not in normally dry Southern California and in a dry garage. The corrosion almost looks like the result of mouse pee but with two cats in the house, I don't know.

Looking at the photos, you can see some of the details the PO added. Besides the rear discs, 14" wheels, rear sway bar, you can see the hydraulic line for the internal hydraulic clutch, the toothed spokes for the electronic speedo and a spot caliper for a hydraulic parking brake. I will probably ditch the electronic speedo and sensor and use a GPS style speedo.

Offline BDA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Jul 2012
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 3,235
Re: The Cosworth YBB Europa
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday,April 11, 2017, 01:40:56 PM »
There are different kind of cog belts, but many are standardized. I've been in a chat with a guy from https://www.vbeltguys.com. They can try to cross reference but if you give them the length, tooth pitch, and width, they sound like they can find a replacement. He expected a replacement for my BDA would probably be around $10 but I have to do some measurements to get the real price.

Update: If you have an engine manual, the belt spec will probably be in the specifications section. I found it in my BDA manual. I also wouldn't be surprised if you could get one from the local Ford parts counter - but it might take a while. I think a place like vbeltguys.com would be the best bet.
« Last Edit: Tuesday,April 11, 2017, 01:52:12 PM by BDA »

Offline andy harwood

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: Sep 2012
  • Location: eden, nc usa
  • Posts: 382
Re: The Cosworth YBB Europa
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday,April 11, 2017, 05:04:17 PM »
I'll 2nd v-belt guys. A belt for my mowing deck was going to be over $120. from the mfg. Less than $15. from them

Offline BDA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Jul 2012
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 3,235
Re: The Cosworth YBB Europa
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday,April 11, 2017, 05:52:27 PM »
Gee, Andy. I'd feel a little better if your experience was with a less pedestrian vehicle!  :)

Offline andy harwood

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Joined: Sep 2012
  • Location: eden, nc usa
  • Posts: 382
Re: The Cosworth YBB Europa
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday,April 11, 2017, 07:52:03 PM »
yeah, just a cofirmation on variety,  and price point. fwiw, i did get a tcs water pump belt from them since I was ordering..... but that is a standard size.   :beerchug:

Offline BDA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Jul 2012
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 3,235
Re: The Cosworth YBB Europa
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday,April 11, 2017, 08:27:21 PM »
They seem like a good supplier (though, certainly not the only one) of belts, pulleys, etc. I'm going to price a belt for my engine tomorrow now that I know the right specs (they couldn't cross reference the number I had). Amazon sells cog belts too, but it's hard to search for the size you need.

Offline jbcollier

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Nov 2013
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  • Posts: 1,452
Re: The Cosworth YBB Europa
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday,April 11, 2017, 09:19:56 PM »
You're running engines that cost any where from $15K to $30K to replace, and you're trying to find the cheapest timing belt?  I might spend a great deal of time trying to find the best, strongest or longest lasting belt -- and I'd change it twice as often as recommended -- but cheapest?

Offline BDA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Jul 2012
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 3,235
Re: The Cosworth YBB Europa
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday,April 11, 2017, 09:52:24 PM »
I'm certainly not doing it to save money. My understanding is that engine timing belts are the same spec as industrial belts. The industrial belts are fiberglass reinforced neoprene. Do you have any information that there is a difference? In the meantime, I'll do my own research.

Offline EuropaTC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Joined: Jun 2012
  • Location: Lincolnshire, UK
  • Posts: 1,892
    • LotusLand
Re: The Cosworth YBB Europa
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday,April 11, 2017, 11:30:53 PM »
I'm certainly not doing it to save money. My understanding is that engine timing belts are the same spec as industrial belts. The industrial belts are fiberglass reinforced neoprene. Do you have any information that there is a difference? In the meantime, I'll do my own research.

I don't think you're far off there BDA, belts are specified by car manufacturers but made by those companies who's livelihood it is. So for example it's more than likely that Audi will turn up on Contitech's doorstep and say "we want a belt for a new engine, about this size, wotcha got ?".  Being serious for a moment, if you think about it the timing belt on your average car doesn't get that hard a life, it's turning cams against springs and possibly a waterpump but no great load ?

For those in Europe and the UK, the Contitech catalogue is worth downloading. They make hundreds of belts and supply many European manufacturers, something I only found out AFTER I'd replaced the drive belt on the Cayman with a £70 Porsche item which had been produced by Contitech and sold (by them) for around 1/3rd the price.   ::)

Brian

ps - Andy, do you have a reference for the TCS water pump belt ? I bought one recently which is supposedly the right fitment but held against a genuine one I have, it's a bit smaller.  I want to replace mine and looking at the genuine one I think I've had it on the shelf for too long.