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Lotus Europa Forums => Members Cars => Topic started by: RoddyMac on Friday,November 08, 2013, 02:18:14 PM

Title: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Friday,November 08, 2013, 02:18:14 PM
I've just joined the forum, so I thought i would post what I'm up to.  I've recently picked up a Type 54 bodyshell, 395 gearbox and Twin Cam bell housing to make myself a sort of 47 replica.  The plan is to fabricate a tube frame chassis that's close in dimensions to the sheet steel 47 chassis, and power it with a Ford Zetec (if i could find one here in town).   So, here's a pic of what I bought yesterday, and what was previously housed in the garage.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20131107_135425_zps4535c6a8.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20131021_110718_zps567df2ea.jpg)

I'll put pictures up as the build progresses.

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Mecky on Friday,November 08, 2013, 06:01:01 PM
Hi Rod,
that sounds like a nice idea. Do you have racing your car in mind?

Best regards

Stefan
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: EuropaTC on Friday,November 08, 2013, 10:39:10 PM
Wow, that's a lovely looking car.

Is it yours and do you still have it or did it have to go to make space for the Europa ?

Brian

ps -  :Welcome:  of course....
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: cal44 on Saturday,November 09, 2013, 04:14:28 AM
Welcome Rod.

Indeed keep us informed on the build, I eat that stuff up with a big ol' spoon.

As for the second picture........dang it...........

mike
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Saturday,November 09, 2013, 09:51:26 AM
Can't wait to watch this unfold!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Saturday,November 09, 2013, 10:39:21 AM
Stefan,
Sadly there is a lack of race tracks here in BC (1 only in my area) , so the car will be a street car only.

Brian,
I sold the Eleven last month, and its actually headed in your direction.  The new owner is based in Wales, and is an avid Lotus nut.  I didn't drive it enough, so instead of it just sitting I decided to sell it, then look for a new project.  I narrowed down to another Seven or the Europa, and seeing as I have never driven one, I chose the Europa.

Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: EuropaTC on Saturday,November 09, 2013, 11:05:15 PM
Hi Rod,

Back to the UK eh ? well that is a change from the normal course of events.  A lovely car though, both condition and styling so I'm sure the new owner is going to be very happy once it arrives.

I think I understand your "don't drive it enough" comment,  it's the perfect definition of a fun car which probably means it only comes out when the sun is shining and you fancy a blast down some deserted roads.  Perhaps the new owner is looking for some track day/competition use, Oulton Park racetrack isn't far from Wales and of course there's at least one other track in Anglesey.

But with quality like that in your CV, I'll be looking forward to your Europa project pictures....   

Brian
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Bainford on Tuesday,November 12, 2013, 08:16:21 AM
Welcome to the forum, Roddy. Unfortunately I couldn't check out the pics from my work computer, but I'll see them soon. Sounds like an interesting Europa project. Cheers
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,November 25, 2013, 08:09:34 AM
I thought by now I would be starting on the chassis for the car, but after giving the gearbox I bought with the car a quick looking over, plans changed slightly.  I thought I had picked up a 395 'box, but after a better inspection its an NG3.  Great/awesome was what I thought at the start, but I noticed that one of the shift levers was missing (the side to side lever).  So, I thought no big deal, I'm sure i can sort something out, lets see if i can get it to shift through the gears anyways.  Nope, seized, would not budge.  So, apart it came:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20131124_142020_zpse8ccc487.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20131124_142012_zps4f647214.jpg)

You can clearly see where the oil level was, and where the water on top of the oil was.  The second motion shaft (output) seems to be ok, but the input shaft has rust pitting on 3rd gear, and 5th gear syncro hub outer is pitted.  Needless to say, I think I'll be searching for another gearbox.

Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Wednesday,March 19, 2014, 01:31:17 PM
Its been a while since updating this thread...  a few weeks ago I finally found a decent Zetec within my budget, and managed to find another NG3 transaxle.  Fingers crossed both are in decent shape.  I've put the diff back in the damaged NG3 and bolted the case back together along with the bellhousing, and attached the unit to the back of the Zetec for measuring.  I've also ordered a pile of tubing so that I can start on the chassis.  The goal for the upcoming weekend is to have at least the front cross member fabricated, and possibly the center section of the chassis.  Once that's done, I can tack together the rear section minus suspension mounts and see if the power unit will fit.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/IMG_4074_zps0ee443af.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/IMG_4078_zps770c034d.jpg)

I'm planning on removing the alternator mount completely as it will not only foul the thermostat housing, but also a cross tube on the chassis.

I'll post some more pictures early next week.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: jbcollier on Wednesday,March 19, 2014, 04:00:49 PM
NG3 transaxles have ridiculously low first gears with a huge gap between 1st and 2nd.  I prefer early 395s which have a tighter ratio set than a 365.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Wednesday,March 26, 2014, 10:53:59 AM
The frame build has begun:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20140323_164253_zps988a4551.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20140323_164312_zps6849e8fb.jpg)

Hopefully this weekend I'll have the front cross member built, and the rear portion of the chassis tacked into place.  Then it will be on to front wishbones and rear uprights.

Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Thursday,March 27, 2014, 10:19:28 AM
I would love to do a build like this one day. What kind of rear suspension set up are you going to go with? What are your plans for the car when it is finished? It looks great!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Thursday,March 27, 2014, 01:06:04 PM
The plan is to build the rear suspension similar to the what the Lotus 47 had.  So fabricated uprights using VW Rabbit bearings, hubs and cut down cv axles; reversed lower wishone; single upper link and twin trailing links. 

Plans for when its finished...  drive it, and drive it often.  I built a Seven a number of years ago, and drove the crap out of it.  I sold it when I was building the Eleven.  The Eleven I didn't drive much, so I'm hoping that the Europa will be as enjoyable and easy to drive as the Seven was. 



Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Thursday,March 27, 2014, 03:39:20 PM
Here are some screen shots of the concept, minus the trailing arms & chassis, but with the rear bulkhead assembly.  The upper centre portion of the bulkhead will be a bolt in piece incorporating the gearbox mounts (still to be designed).   Also, the uprights aren't fully modeled, so wont look exactly like what's shown.


(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/rearsuspension3d_1_zpsea9b4f28.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/rearsuspension3d_zps3069e17a.jpg)
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: cal44 on Thursday,March 27, 2014, 06:58:45 PM
RoddyMac...........nice

mike
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Bainford on Tuesday,April 01, 2014, 06:06:19 AM
Serious stuff. This is going to be interesting.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Tuesday,April 01, 2014, 01:30:01 PM
Here's this past weekends work.  The front and rear sections have yet to be attached to the centre section.  I'm hoping to get the whole thing welded up this weekend.  Also, the rear is still lacking triangulation, I'm wanting to get the motor more or less in its final place before adding the triangulation.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/IMG_4272_zps365b9fd7.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/IMG_4267_zps74cc834f.jpg)
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,April 01, 2014, 06:01:25 PM
Looks good, Roddy! You and Serge are doing some great work! Keep posting the pictures!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Tuesday,April 01, 2014, 08:57:39 PM
I recognize those throttle bodies...Did you go with R1 or R6? I went with the smaller R6 TB since I am not doing much to my engine yet. I'm curious as to how you have those affixed to your block. I don't recognize that intake manifold from the picture.

Looks great BTW!!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Wednesday,April 02, 2014, 07:20:12 AM
They're CBR900 Carbs, I had thought about going with TB's but the price and learning curve of Megasquirt was a bit too much.  Though I'm sure once its running I'll be kicking myself for not going with FI.  As for the intake manifold, there isn't one yet, the carbs were just laid in place for the pitcures, there's a piece of wood propping them up.  There is a guy in the UK who sells manifolds on Fleabay, but I'm sure I can cobble something up for less than what he charges.



Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Wednesday,April 02, 2014, 08:02:24 PM
two for two! I'm on fire! Maybe I need some sleep... If you don't already know about it, the lower SVT intake manifold from the US Focus is a pretty ideal set up for carbs/TB. For a while I assumed the UK spec st170 was the only source of them. I snagged one for $60 shipped from up north.

You sure you don't want to leave that 2x4 in the final design? Balsa wood has a density much lower than carbon fiber...
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Friday,April 11, 2014, 09:34:22 AM
I wonder if the 2x4 would stand up to the heat in the engine bay....

Anyways, I've almost finished the CAD file for the chassis and suspension.  I just wish I had done it in Solidworks (my license expired) so that I could make the suspension move.   But, I'm just happy that I haven't found any interferences in the suspension and chassis.  Here are some screen shots:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/ChassisConcept2_zps5e7fc1fa.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/ChassisConcept1_zpsd328d8e7.jpg)

Now I just need to find a local waterjet place that can cut all the brackets I need.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Friday,April 11, 2014, 02:24:59 PM
Looks great! What are you going to use for rear uprights? Are you going to fabricate your own?
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Friday,April 11, 2014, 03:28:44 PM
I'm going to be fabricating my own using VW Golf Mk 3 bearings and hubs.  I've got some DOM tubing on order for the bearing holder, and I'm going to have the rest of the bits waterjet cut from .093 steel other than the caliper mount which will be 3/8" thick.  The plan is to have the bulk of the .093 steel bits cut as one piece and bend them up to suit.  I'll be having a pro welder weld them together for me, as my 120V MIG welder wont be powerful enough.  Hopefully they'll end up looking just like the CAD rendering.

Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: cal44 on Friday,April 11, 2014, 03:59:15 PM
I was a pipeline weldor for more decades than I care to remember..............this friggin' thing is looking saaaaweeeet.  Nice work.

mike
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Friday,April 11, 2014, 06:28:30 PM
Sounds cool! Keep those pictures coming!  :)
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Friday,June 20, 2014, 08:28:16 AM
Progress has been slow the last little while as I've been away for work too often.  But, I have managed to get a small amount of work done, and I've gather up most of the bits for the rear uprights.  With said bits, I can finalize my design, and start fabricating them. 

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/IMG_5024_zps4f18a4c8.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/IMG_5121_zps356df954.jpg)
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: EuropaTC on Friday,June 20, 2014, 10:16:02 AM
That is incredibly neat work, very impressive in both design and welding. I don't expect it would be lighter than the Lotus one, but it looks sooooo much cooler !    8)

I'll look forward to the next stage, keep 'em coming.....

Brian
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Sunday,June 22, 2014, 05:53:35 PM
It probably won't be as light as a standard frame but there will be LOTS of access which is really nice! Keep up the great work and keep those pictures coming!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,June 30, 2014, 07:43:40 AM
Some minor progress this weekend, I managed to find enough time to fabricate the upper and lower front wishbones, front "body mount" plates, plus make up the steering rack mounts.  At the moment the rack mounts are only tacked in place, I was going to set the rack height for bump steer etc, but I'm missing the nuts that hold the upper ball joint to the upright.  So every time I tried to move either corner vertically, the upper BJ would pop out.  In the end, I tacked the mounts at the stock height, or at least at the height provided in the drawings available on line.  I had hoped to take the chassis over to where the body is stored to see if it all fits, though I'm sure it will (fingers crossed).

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/a717c384-8148-449f-b99d-1509f727515e_zps9c888a70.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/f4eaad67-7b7a-41ae-b8fb-893acd9acb3c_zps37bfee5c.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/d2d8e0f3-fab0-4893-ae7a-65e948c5d46b_zps7b183a11.jpg)
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,June 30, 2014, 08:07:53 AM
Looks great!  :trophy:

I didn't think about it till now, but I was wondering if you're going to tie the end of the tranny into the frame. I assume you're going to pick up the bell housing with the hoop at the end of your frame. Are you planning on other attachments?
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,June 30, 2014, 08:14:22 AM
I've been debating on what to do about the tranny mount.  I am going to pick up two bell housing bolts and mount them to the rear hoop.  But, I'm half thinking about making a frame that also attaches to the hoop and would pick up the rear of the tranny, plus support the rear of the body and double up as a jacking point.  I don't think the bell housing bolts will be able to take the load of supporting the gearbox and part of the weight of the engine.  The FT200 in the 47 appears to use 1/2" bolts, where as the bell housing bolts are only 3/8". 
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,June 30, 2014, 10:37:12 AM
I don't remember (if I ever knew) how the 47 mounted the tanny to the frame but quite often, the bell housing would have two bosses that take the bolts you mention. Maybe you can make a similar modification to your bell housing. Or you might make a sort of "girdle" that picks up the four (I think) mounting bolts between the block and bell housing. Of course, picking up the back of the tranny would mean you wouldn't have to pick up the front of the tranny. Jensen's D Production Europa only used the standard mount points.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,June 30, 2014, 10:53:22 AM
Here are two shots of a 47 replica that a friend took at a show in the UK:  (http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/DSC00407_zpsb0bf05d7.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/DSC00408_zps3cbbc4e1.jpg)

The FT200 has ears off the side plates that mount it, and appear to be quite beefy.

And here's a very rough sketch of what I'm now leaning towards:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/Gearboxmountconcept_zps40011ce3.jpg)

Once I get the motor and gearbox as a unit in the chassis (I still have to carve off the alternator mount), I can measure everything and create a drawing to see if it will work.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,October 13, 2014, 06:58:01 PM
Its been too long since my last update, so here's what I've been up to....

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20141012_140607_zps68b0807e.jpg)

I had some plate laser cut for the rear uprights.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20141012_162612_zps120c94b9.jpg)

Made up a jig to locate everything and tack welded the assemblies.  I've going to hopefully have them fully welded this week by a friend with a better welder than I have.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/a4560e19-dc28-4d37-8c09-4416a2ba42ea_zpscf22f06d.jpg)

Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,October 13, 2014, 08:02:39 PM
Very nice!!! Please post more often! You have a really great project going on!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,October 13, 2014, 10:52:13 PM
That's very impressive, engineering at it's best. I struggle making simple brackets so watching progress like this is inspiring. Keep 'em coming....

Brian
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Lotusjps on Tuesday,October 14, 2014, 08:51:49 AM
... Or you might make a sort of "girdle" that picks up the four (I think) mounting bolts between the block and bell housing...
Essentially that's what I did to mount my NG3.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,October 14, 2014, 09:16:05 AM
Very nicely done!!  :welder:
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Tuesday,October 14, 2014, 09:42:42 AM
That looks very interesting, I may have to somewhat copy that mount.   
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Lotusjps on Tuesday,October 14, 2014, 10:20:23 AM
Here's my drawings if you want.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Tuesday,October 14, 2014, 10:38:35 AM
Thanks!  That saves a ton of time.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Lotusjps on Tuesday,October 14, 2014, 10:54:34 AM
Just realized the drawing doesn't show that I used DOM tubing in between the larger holes and then pressed poly bushings into them to suspend it from.  I had the pieces laser cut then powder coated after welding all together.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Mecky on Wednesday,October 15, 2014, 12:02:22 PM
Wow, I love the self-made hub carriers  :pirate: :coolpic:
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,January 19, 2015, 03:14:30 PM
Its been a while, the project/build is slowly progressing.  After tacking the rear uprights together and making a dummy hub bearing I found that the Girling calipers that I had earmarked for the project wouldn't work.  They cleared the hub and upright, but fouled the hub portion of the wheels I'm using.  So, after a small amount of Cardboard Aided Design (CAD) I've come up with some weld on adapters to take Miata rear calipers.  They clear the wheel and hub, plus have the added bonus of having a handbrake.  Now I just have to find someone to weld them up for me. 

I've also made two sets of reversed lower wishbones for the car.  The first set was slightly modified by hand which turned out to be a mistake, I messed up on one measurement which forced the fabrication of the second set.  I've also made the four trailing links, four clevises for said trailing links and two single upper links.  The next step is building a jig to set the suspension pick up points, and tack weld the points to the chassis.  I'm very curious to see how the suspension "moves" in bump and droop.  If I still had a license for solidworks I would have modeled it before fabrication.

Anyways, here are a few pics, and yes I really do need to clean the shelves in the garage.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20141126_195122_zps1b70304f.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150118_153037_zps236ad045.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150118_153048_zps68089b35.jpg)

And if anyone is interested, here's the drawing for the front and rear suspension, but the lower front wishbones don't quite work as pictured.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/EuropaSuspensionDetails-page-001_zps0ef3be35.jpg)



Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,January 19, 2015, 04:16:05 PM
It looks like things are moving in a good direction! The uprights look really nice! Hopefully it won't be too long before you can put it all together for a final fitting. Keep up the good work!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Saturday,January 24, 2015, 03:12:01 PM
Wonderful!! Keep it up!!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,February 16, 2015, 07:33:23 AM
Over the past couple of weeks I've managed to get the rear suspension to a point where I could bolt it to the chassis.  There have been a few small issues, but nothing major.  I'm now waiting on some more laser cut pieces for the rear uprights, once I get them I can finish weld the uprights and call the suspension "done".  Then its on to sorting out engine and gearbox mounts, followed by fitting the chassis to the body.

Here are some pics from yesterday:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150215_160320_zpse326272e.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150215_160304_zpsf107d211.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150215_160117_zps6fa75a23.jpg)


Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,February 16, 2015, 08:13:47 AM
It looks like it's coming along nicely!  :beerchug: The geometry in the rear is interesting. My memory from when I was racing (back when we chiseled wheels out of stone) was that the trailing arms were always equal length. It looks like you'd get some caster change (and maybe a little toe change as well?) - I'm not sure what caster (or its changing) does in the rear  :confused:. I remember we discussed rear caster (IIRC, there was a rear caste spec for some cars) and none of us had any idea what difference it made so we just worried at camber and toe.

Keep those pictures coming. It looks like it will really nice when it's done!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,February 16, 2015, 08:36:43 AM
From what I've read, caster isn't really important in the rear, but toe changes are.  The way its set up at the moment it toes-in under droop and under bump, so in theory if I set the toe-in to anything greater than 0, I should be okay.  Toe-out is to be avoided at all cost.   As for the unequal trailing arm lengths, the 47 is nearly identical to what I've designed and built, see photo attached of a car being put together at Banks (I think). 

This is my first IRS build, so I'm learning as I go.  I have noticed that Lotus used a larger diameter tube for the trailing arms, so the ones I've built will most likely get changed before the car is on the road.  I've been bugging one of the EITs at work about putting my design in a stress analysis program, but we're a bit busy at the moment.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,February 16, 2015, 09:43:00 AM
Toe in under droop and bump is good! And being close to the original 47 rear suspension, you should be good. I didn't notice it before but it looks like the forward mount points of the trailing are not in the same vertical plane... Something else interesting about it!

I was about to say that the trailing arms would pretty much just be under tension, but in braking, they would take compression, wouldn't they? In that case, a little bigger section would be helpful.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Friday,February 20, 2015, 08:06:40 AM
Incredible!! Out of curiosity what does your tube fame weigh with out any suspension on it? I am thinking about doing something like that on my 46. Has anyone sent you the dimensions of the dash board panels yet? I have been meaning to dig through my pile of tubs to make a template for you.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Friday,February 20, 2015, 09:10:47 AM
To be honest, I haven't put it on the scales yet.  If I get a chance this weekend I will, but I can tell you its light enough for one person to pick up. 

Serge did measure his panels and posted the dimensions, but a template would be great to have as well.  I've changed the dimensions on my CAD drawing to reflect what Serge sent and I'm tempted to send the drawing off for a quote on laser cutting.  But, building the dash is still months away (though it would be cool to have the instrument panels all ready to go and on display at home).  I'm hoping to start on the bodywork and dash build once I'm back from my vacation in May. 

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,March 23, 2015, 06:48:27 AM
This past weekend had the project go from non roller, to roller, to fitting the body.  It was so far the easiest work on the project, everything seemed to fit together without any major issues.  I had to do some minor trimming of fibreglass, and it looks like I'll have to trim the inner lip of the wheel arches, but nothing too major went wrong.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150321_151937_zpsg7y6ypoz.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150321_151923_zps3li0dovc.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150321_152829_zps6zm9om6q.jpg)

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,March 23, 2015, 07:20:36 AM
Man, that's got to feel good! It looks like things are moving along pretty smoothly. Keep up the great work!
 :lotus:
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,March 23, 2015, 09:21:16 AM
That chassis really is a work of art. I think you ought to have translucent or perspex bodywork inside the car so you can see it !

Ok, ok, maybe that is going too far but the frame looks great.

Brian
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Tuesday,April 14, 2015, 09:02:54 PM
As a man who has recently experienced hundreds of hours of bodywork fixing stress cracks and accident damage in a twin cam body...I wish you luck!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: 460384 on Thursday,April 23, 2015, 10:37:58 PM
Rod,

What a great job on your chassis.  Will you make one for my S1b?

Tom/Colorado 
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,April 27, 2015, 10:29:07 AM
Tom,
Unfortunately building a second chassis is out of the question at the moment.  I'm having a hard time to find time to work on the current one.   

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: 460384 on Saturday,May 02, 2015, 02:21:51 AM
Rod,

I can wait. It is going to take me a long time before I cut my chassis out.  So let me know later if you have time to do one for me.

Tom/Colorado
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,June 21, 2015, 05:17:08 PM
I guess its time I should update this thread, I've done a bunch of welding over the past few weeks and I have the chassis almost fully welded.  I've added mounts for the shift lever assembly (ex-Toyota MR2), welded in mounting plates for some pedal box brackets (going with a hanging pedal assembly), and I've modified the rear frame I had build a while back to clear the gearbox.  Another weekend of work and I might have the chassis ready for paint, then its hang it on the wall and get onto the body.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150620_095403_zps85oncerm.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150621_134306_zpsvfzsnwhp.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150621_103402_zpshdv7pl0p.jpg)

Cheers
Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Sunday,June 21, 2015, 06:53:45 PM
Great progress, Roddy! It's a piece of art! I know you're going to have a great car when you're done!!! Keep those pictures coming!
 :lotus:
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Runningwild on Sunday,June 21, 2015, 07:11:27 PM
Looks fantastic. What shocks are you going to end up using?  Are you going with stock brakes or something bigger?  Tom
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,June 21, 2015, 07:26:09 PM
Tom,
I'll be running stock front brakes but the rears are cut down VW Rabbit rotors (they match the hubs) with Miata rear calipers as they clear the hubs and rims plus they have provision for a handbrake.

As for the shocks, the rears are Spax but I haven't decided on which ones to go with for the fronts.  I'm not going to running the sway bar in the stock location, so I wont require the pin on the bottom of the shock meaning I can choose from nearly any of the suppliers.  I'm leaning towards AVO's but I have heard good things about Protech, either way they will be probably the priciest parts for the car.

I'm also expecting to have to buy a few sets of springs.  Once I get the car completed I'll put it on the scales to figure out the front/rear weight distribution then calculate the spring rates.  I'm sure the first set of springs wont quite be right.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Monday,June 22, 2015, 09:31:57 AM
Hey Rod,
That chassis is looking very nice!  Before I picked up my Europa I was toying with the idea of build a 7 replica.  That looks like just as much fun!

I really like that rear brace you fabbed up.
Ross
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,June 22, 2015, 10:10:24 AM
Ross,
The first chassis I built was a Seven:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/a008_17a.jpg)

Then came the Eleven and now this one.  I haven't decided what to build next, but I'm sure I'll have at least a year to figure it out.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,July 19, 2015, 08:27:45 PM
Since I last posted I've managed to paint the chassis, make another shift knob (the one I had made a few months ago seems to have grown legs), start on the pedal box , hang the chassis on the wall and start on bodywork. I've stripped 80% of the paint from the main body and have uncovered more and more spider cracks. This thing is turning into way too much work.

I'm now contemplating having the doors, engine cover and front cover soda blasted instead of sanding all the old paint off. Does anyone on here have any experience with soda blasting fiberglass panels? Dear old dad had the wings and nose from his Caterham 7 media blasted, but neither of us can recall the media used nor any idea on the surface finish post blasting.


Anyways, here are some pics:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150703_150940_zpsr6ryit3u.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150703_163056_zpsdcn8bioz.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150703_194156_zpsnwi6drz9.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150718_154139_zpshbt2xrxq.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150718_154152_zpswimk4i20.jpg)

And one shot of the 47 style vents in the rear panels:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150718_154205_zpsvyieg3uh.jpg)

I am curious to know how the vents integrate with the inner panel, can anyone shed some light on this?

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Sunday,July 19, 2015, 09:33:27 PM
Pretty work, Roddy! I sanded my body with a cheap orbital sander, but you've not interested in that anymore. It seems I have heard of soda blasting the body, but if I did, I don't know any more than that. Maybe someone else has some experience with it.

You probably know this already, but veil or gauze works great over your repairs and don't even think about using even fine cloth - you'll never get the weave not to bleed through the paint.

Congratulations on your progress! :beerchug:
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,July 20, 2015, 09:05:42 AM
I'm just looking for an easier way to strip the paint, plus my orbital sander decided to fall apart yesterday.  The velcro pad parted company from the unit.   I've requested an estimate on blasting the doors etc, but I'm sure once I get it I'll be looking at fixing the orbital sander.

And yup, I'm very familiar with tissue/veil/surfacing veil etc.  Although a friend of mine restored a Berkley for a client (I had to fab some suspension bits for it) and he had some issues with print through with the tissue on that build. I can only surmise that he sanded through the resin top coat when prepping the car for primer.   I'm half thinking about using a large piece of tissue to fix the many cracks in the roof (a piece that goes from door to door and windscreen to back light).  Ideally I'd like to have the car in polyurethane primer by the end of August, or at least the body tub.

Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,July 20, 2015, 09:32:02 AM
Although it's often quoted as being completely wrong, I use paint stripper on my cars. In fact I use the most agressive stripper I can get, which is usually a thixotropic Methylene Chloride ("Polystrippa" in the UK) and yes, it will burn unprotected skin. It will also attack the gel coat which is why it's generally not used.

However, chemical reactions of this sort don't happen instantly and you aren't going to paint on some stripper and have a bunch of soggy glassfibre in your hands two minutes later.  What I do is to use stripper in small sections, typically a panel at a time. I also watch it carefully and only apply where I know there's at least colour and primer coats to go through. As soon as it wrinkles then I scrape off with an old 1" wood chisel, which generally takes you back to almost the base primer, after which I dry sand with 60 or 80 grit production paper used dry.

It usually takes me a day per panel, maybe 2 on the rear deck because that's relatively thin and you can't push too hard.  I realise this is against all conventional wisdom so YMMV, but it's something I've done for several resprays on both the Elan & Europa and providing you pay attention to what's happening, it's a very quick way to get the top layers of paint off.  I wouldn't use it on almost bare fibreglass and certainly not on any body filler though, under such conditions you will get damage.

Just a thought if you can't get a gentle blasting media.

Brian
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,July 20, 2015, 09:55:06 AM
Many years ago, a friend used paint stripper on a Corvette. Before he was finished he read or heard somewhere that the stripper could seep along the glass fibers and inhibit paint retention in the future. I don't know what happened to his Corvette, but I think I did hear that there were strippers that were (more) appropriate for fiberglass applications. It might be worth asking about the use on fiberglass cars.

On the other hand, Brian has experience with this and I don't.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: 4129R on Monday,July 20, 2015, 10:48:23 AM
I was trying to get an old JPS sticker off my car yesterday, and was using a mixture of Toluene and Xylene that I had lying around (Octane Booster), to loosen the stick. It took an hour and messed up the paintwork.

Some got T/X stuck behind the WCCC 1973 badge, and when I took the badge off, the paint underneath had peeled down to the light grey coat.

Toluene is also used as paint thinners.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,July 20, 2015, 01:45:22 PM
Yep BDA, there are problems with paint strippers and there are milder paint strippers which are fibreglass friendly.  But they aren't so good at shifting paint, or at least not on the timescale I wanted them to   ;)

You can simply paint on thinners, especially the slower evapouration rate ones,  which will soften the paint enough to strip it away with a chisel or similar but it's not so effective on vertical panels. And I'd imagine after an hour or so of stripping paint you'd be so high on fumes not to care about cars at all   :)

But my experience is dated and so probably well adrift now.  The Europa I sprayed in 2011, the Elan in 2013 and when I ran out of stripper on that prep I couldn't find any methylene chloride based ones locally.  For anyone in the UK I ended up using one from Wickes;  it was far slower to react and you could leave it on overnight with no damage but at least it was thixotropic and clung to vertical surfaces. 

Brian
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Monday,July 20, 2015, 10:28:59 PM
Roddy my brother I am right there with you!...I DA'd my entire TC. Pure pain. The worst are the spots where the boot and bonnet lids sit and the areas the DA cant get to. My hands were numb for weeks. I found that after hitting the paint with 60 grit on the DA I can switch to 60 grit on the sanding block and it will work much more aggressively. Maybe that is just the delusion from exhaustion...Just be glad you don't have to do any serious repairs. My car had been hit by a tree and I spent mover a month trying to get that fender straight. My trick that I developed is to use sharpie marker to mark the surface around the spider crack,  grind it out, then cover it with a combo of chopped strand mat and surface tissue. The tissue helps keep pin holes from forming because it is so resin rich. By the time you get back to sharpie you know you are on the money. Naturally I developed that trick after I started laying away on the damaged fender with no reference for what was there before.... I literally spent 300+ hours sanding the paint off and grinding the stress cracks out. I probably ground 1/8" off my entire car and built it back up again it had that many cracks...part of that was definitely the learning curve...I don't envy you...but I don't envy myself either because I have to do the whole dance over again with my hail damaged S1. Needless to say I am going to be investigating soda blasting for myself....

I really like your vents by the way! I am going to copy that!!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,July 27, 2015, 07:23:26 AM
Chuck,
Thanks for the tip on using the sharpie, there are tons of spider cracks all over the body shell.  Luckily the doors, engine cover, and front cover are in fairly decent shape.  In regards to soda blasting, I did get a quote for the doors and two lids at roughly $300.  The blasting place currently has a Europa in, so I'm fairly certain they know the sizes.  But, I could by a lot of sandpaper for $300....

In other news, I didn't do any sanding this weekend.  I went to the All British Field Meet in Seattle on Saturday,  it was a nice turn out of cars, but no Europa's.   Sunday saw me spend a few hours turning these up:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150726_143127_zpssswev6h7.jpg)

I still have to put some flats on the top flange and test fit them to the doors, but I'm sure they'll work just fine.   The hinge pin is 304 stainless, and the threaded bushing is 360 brass.  I'm into the set (brass, stainless, & nuts) for roughly $40. 

Rod

Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Monday,July 27, 2015, 09:27:11 AM
Nicely done on the hinges Rod.  I was thinking of tackling that project myself as well. 
As for soda blasting, my dad's +2 was blasted back in the day, not sure he would ever do that again.  Maybe there are businesses that are more specialized now a days.  Took all the gel coat off and the pin holes that surfaced were crazy.  Not much fun working through cleaning all those up.  My first plan was to use a DA on my Europa, but it sounds like some long hours.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Wednesday,July 29, 2015, 10:09:32 AM
Ross (and others),
After reading your comment on your dad's +2, I think I'll stick with sanding.  I had a chat with dear old dad last night and he now recalls how much work it was to get the Caterhams wings and nose back to being smooth, flat, and free of pin holes.  So, I'll be spending two days of the long weekend getting dusty and itchy, the goal for the end of the day Monday is to have the body stripped of paint in the areas that require crack repairs and possibly have the roof panel tissued.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Wednesday,July 29, 2015, 09:45:44 PM
If it makes you feel any better Rod, fiberglass appears to have no effect on me anymore. After a while I seem to have become desensitized... :FUNNY:
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Tuesday,August 11, 2015, 01:26:12 PM
How is the fiberglass prep coming along Rod?
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Tuesday,August 11, 2015, 01:43:40 PM
Ross,
It's slowly coming along, I've got nearly all the paint stripped from the main portions of the body tub, and I've repaired nearly all of the spider cracks and 90% of the structural repairs.  I'm almost ready to start troweling on the filler.  Ideally I'd like to have the body in polyurethane primer by this time next month.  The doors and lids can be done later in the year and hopefully be working on in dad's garage (a lot more space).  I found that 60 grit on the orbital sander cut right through the first layer of paint (purple), then with 100 grit I took the original green paint off and was left with the original layers of primer.  I've only gone through the two primers in places that need repair so that I'm not opening up any voids in the fiberglass. 

I didn't spend nearly enough time this past weekend on the body.  But I did make the seat belt reinforcing plates, along with a new set of engine mounts as the first set I made were way too ugly, and I finally got around to turning some lugs for the rear brake calipers.  The lugs are now welded to the rear uprights, so the rear suspension is almost done.  All that's left is to make some sway bar tabs for both the front and rear suspension, then I can do a run of black paint (all suspension pieces, engine mounts, front uprights, rear uprights etc). 


Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Tuesday,August 11, 2015, 02:12:22 PM
That sounds like some good progress!  In primer in a month will be great.  When you get time for some pictures it would be good to see the progress.
R
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,August 17, 2015, 08:38:20 AM
I managed to get some help on the weekend with sanding (honestly she wanted to):

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150816_125159_zpsmomal3qq.jpg)

She got most of the purple paint off both the front lid and the engine cover which has sped up the bodywork process.  I had planned on doing them over the fall and winter but I might have them both in primer with the body tub.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150816_125211_zpsbcdeojc1.jpg)

In regards to the body tub, it never looks like there has been progress, but I'm down to a few small repairs to the LH sill flange and finishing the vents and fuel filler recesses. 

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150816_134620_zpskqnaefo7.jpg)

I did get the rear upper trailing arm covers laid up, and they turned out quite well, now its a matter of sanding the underside smooth to match the factory finish, and get onto the little cutouts I made inside the cockpit to clear the trailing arm brackets.  And yes, the firewall is getting replaced once I plant the body back on the chassis (sometime soon I think).

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150816_134751_zpsilSkunkxy.jpg)

I also got started on the dash assembly, it doesn't look like much at the moment, but its helped with laying everything out so far.  I'm hoping to make it look somewhat like a Lotus 46 dashboard.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150816_134757_zpsvyaytrkk.jpg)


That's all for now, next weekend should see the RH side vent nearly finished and the fuel filler recess cut into the side panel.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,August 17, 2015, 08:52:13 AM
Your sanding helper seems like a keeper to me!

What are you planning on doing for the dash?

It looks like you (and your helper) are making great progress!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Monday,August 17, 2015, 12:13:14 PM
That looks GREAT Rod!.  I can't wait to get going some more on my project but summer holidays keep getting in the way.  Great work!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Tuesday,August 18, 2015, 12:53:04 PM
BDA,
I'm attempting to make a dash similar to the Series 1 cars, the attached pic should hopefully show what I'm planning.  The piece of wood attached to the dash supports at the moment is the face of the dash, the center panel pieces have been measured and will be mocked up this weekend.  I was kindly supplied with a set of CAD files for the aluminum inserts which I'll use for the tach/speedo panel and the glove box, but I'll have to make up my own template for the center section. The dash top is going to be the tricky bit to build, I'm still trying to come up with an easy way to make it.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/DASH%20RENDER_zpsahtd1hfk.jpg)


Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,August 18, 2015, 01:27:23 PM
I don't know, that sounds like quite a job!

Good luck!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,August 23, 2015, 08:46:09 PM
I managed to get two full days of car stuff this weekend, though the first part of today was doing an oil change on dear old dads MGB.  The rest of today consisted of fiberglassing, filling, and sanding.  I'm slowly running out of repairs to do, but finding more and more pin holes, so there's lots of filling and sanding in my future.  I also made a plug and made up two fuel filler neck recesses.  I bonded one in today, the other will have to wait for later in the week and I did get both side vents glued, filled and glassed in.  Things are moving along, and I might meet my goal of primer by early next month.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150823_135823_zpstu95zeti.jpg)


Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Sunday,August 23, 2015, 09:34:51 PM
Looking good, Rod!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Thursday,August 27, 2015, 10:16:40 AM
Just a heads up as I recently had a sanding revelation. I bought a Dynabrade DA and I have to say they are worth the money. If you have a compressor that can hack it there is no going back to electric. I bought the model marketed to the guy who sands "8 hours long, 8 hours strong" and they mean it!

That duct looks great Rod!

Your firewall looks like mine!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,August 31, 2015, 07:12:49 AM
I managed to get two days work on the car this past weekend, but it still doesn't look like much has been done.  I've put the body back on the chassis to make sure it still fits, and lo and behold it didn't.   The angled mounts at the firewall were in the wrong spot, which pushed the body too far forward.  Five minutes with the angry grinder corrected this, but it means that I'll have some welding to do on the painted chassis.  I also found that the front tires were rubbing on the lip of the wheel arch, again a few minutes with the angry grinder took care of this (after reading the post on the wider revolution wheels).  It's looking like I might not hit my mid September goal of primer, but I will get another two days next weekend to work on the car. 

Anyways, here's a pic of how the car looks now.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150830_121121_zps0jk8nf5p.jpg)


Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Tuesday,September 08, 2015, 07:41:43 AM
I had a helper this past weekend and she actually enjoyed it! 

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150905_142644_zpssatnstiz.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150907_110938_zps945pliyt.jpg)

She's managed to get most of the filling and sanding done on the body tub, which means I might get to prime the body next Sunday.

I tackled the seatbelt mount plates in the rocker panels, the head of the mounting bolts had to be cut off with the angry grinder as there was nothing holding the nuts on the back side.  I had made a pair of replacement plates a few weeks ago, and they fit like a glove.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150905_114225_zps26z9s3xs.jpg)

Next up was replacing the firewall, I spent most of Saturday grinding out the  existing fiberglass that held in the beaver board.  I then spent the rest of the day cutting up some plywood to fit the tub and glassed both sides with cloth.  Monday saw me install the pieces from the cockpit side.  The panels will get glassed in on the engine side once I pick up some more resin. 

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150905_142633_zpszkpexnrf.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150907_110933_zpskffcrepj.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150907_151623_zpsef0ebmw3.jpg)

At the end of the day Monday the car looked like this:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150907_163428_zpsggnl6qqk.jpg)

If I can convince my helper to help out again next weekend, the car should be all one shade of grey.


Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,September 08, 2015, 08:49:48 AM
Things are coming along nicely! Having a willing helper is definitely a very good thing!  :)
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,September 14, 2015, 07:35:17 AM
I managed to meet my goal of primer on the weekend, but I did find some more filling and repairs to do.  Unfortunately there are a ton of pin holes, so there will be more prep work before even thinking about paint.  Sunday morning the car looked like this:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150913_122509_zpsmyjsfn3k.jpg)

And by the afternoon is looked like this:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20150913_133346_zps1we9asyu.jpg)

The little bit of primer missing on the nose of the car is due to a minor fiberglass repair. 

I also got to work on the front panel repairs and did some minor repairs to the RH door.  The LH door and engine cover will get worked on later this month.  I might have the whole car one colour by the end of October, fingers crossed.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,September 14, 2015, 08:09:02 AM
That's great progress!! That's got to feel good! Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,September 14, 2015, 08:43:28 AM
It's amazing just how much things change when you get even a basic primer coat on. Just losing the obvious repairs and previous colours to get a nice, uniform matt beige makes a heck of a difference. To me it always seems like "hey, this might just work...."

Brian
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,September 14, 2015, 08:49:16 AM
Brian,
I totally agree, when we were finished work on Sunday it looked like a ton of progress was made compared to the past few weekends of filling and sanding and it actually looks like a car again.. 

The question now is what colour to paint it, I was leaning towards white with a green stripe. But lately I'm thinking about painting it the same blue as I had painted the Eleven but with a white stripe across the nose like the Rob Walker cars.  Decisions decisions....


Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Monday,September 14, 2015, 10:42:25 AM
WOW!!!! Looks great dude!!!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Monday,September 14, 2015, 01:04:54 PM
Fantastic Rod!  You are making some great progress.  I'd like to see the car in person one day.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: 460384 on Thursday,September 17, 2015, 06:45:37 AM
Brian,
I totally agree, when we were finished work on Sunday it looked like a ton of progress was made compared to the past few weekends of filling and sanding and it actually looks like a car again.. 

The question now is what colour to paint it, I was leaning towards white with a green stripe. But lately I'm thinking about painting it the same blue as I had painted the Eleven but with a white stripe across the nose like the Rob Walker cars.  Decisions decisions....

Great work. I think you can do both, top half blue and lower half white with a gold stripe in the middle, like the 47 built by the Technical Shop Happy in Japan. It will look very nice.

Tom/Colorado
Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: 460384 on Thursday,September 17, 2015, 06:52:06 AM
Rod,

Below is the link to the blue/white Europa in Japan for your review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pUp9BI_uJw
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Thursday,September 17, 2015, 07:53:36 AM
Tom,
Thanks for the link, the video answered a question I had about hooking up the brake pipes to the pedal box.  But, I'm not too keen on the Sprint paint scheme, I think it belongs only on Elan's (just my opinion).  I did paint my old Plus 2 two tone like the Sprint, but I was never really happy with the way it looked.

 I do like the white with green: 
https://thegaragista.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/jpf13-153.jpg (ftp://thegaragista.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/jpf13-153.jpg)

Then there's this one in blue, albeit with a yellow stripe:
http://www.conceptcarz.com/images/Lotus/66_lotus-47_Num27-DV-08_MH-01.jpg (ftp://www.conceptcarz.com/images/Lotus/66_lotus-47_Num27-DV-08_MH-01.jpg)

I wouldn't paint the wheels a dark colour if I go with the blue, but with the white they sort of disappear.    The pro's for white is it hides most imperfections in the prep work of the body (think waves and small depressions), the pros for the blue is I already have 3/4 gallon of the blue paint (solvent borne).  The con's for the white are I don't have any, and the cons for the blue is whether I can get another gallon of the single stage paint.   I don't know of anyone that mixes solvent borne paint here in the great white north other than industrial suppliers, and they can't do "custom" colours, only things like black and industrial grey.   

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Thursday,September 17, 2015, 08:57:52 AM
That blue looks a little purple to me, and it looks like an S1 rather than an S2 the title says, but It's a beauty whatever color or model it is!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: jbcollier on Thursday,September 17, 2015, 05:18:20 PM
It's not an S1. Probably an S2 modded to look like a 47.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Thursday,September 17, 2015, 05:43:36 PM
The dash, no turn signal warts, and the pop-out windows are what made me think it was an S1. What is the clue that it is really an S2?
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: jbcollier on Thursday,September 17, 2015, 08:51:57 PM
The seats!

You can buy an S1 dash and wart removal is easy.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: 460384 on Thursday,September 17, 2015, 11:34:42 PM
I think the Happy Shop did an excellent conversion job if this indeed a S2. I can see many S1 parts on the car, Lancia tail lights, doors, dash, flat nose, and single wiper. However, it does not have the integrated seats, dash air vent controls/a flip type and full pan under the engine.   
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: jbcollier on Friday,September 18, 2015, 05:28:53 AM
Euro spec Europas all had single wipers, including TCs.  54s also had the "flat nose".
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Friday,September 18, 2015, 07:11:08 AM
One tell is that the floor of the engine bay is open. The S1's have fiberglass that surrounds most of the engine compartment's floor. That is really nitpicking.

If I am not mistaken I believe they make their own bodies. Maybe someone can confirm this?
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Saturday,October 17, 2015, 01:15:05 PM
Yikes, it's been nearly a month since I've updated my build log.  I haven't done too much in the past few weeks, though I did get the fiberglass repairs done to the doors, engine cover, and front lid.  So, all that's left to get them in primer is a day or so of sanding and filling.  If I'm feeling ambitious that might happen tomorrow or next Friday. 

In other news, I picked up some mandrel bends yesterday morning and by mid afternoon they looked like this:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20151016_151737_zpsibcazaj9.jpg)

And by the end of the day, they looked like this:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20151016_172754_zps1lugy4bx.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20151016_161607_zpsjqstedwp.jpg)

I still have to trim the ends and square them up, then it's on to building the collector.  I made a cone thingmee for the inside of the collector already, so it's a matter of welding it on, then forming the outer portion.    I also did a rough measurement, and all the primaries are within 3/4" of each other, not too bad for a "that looks about right" way of making a header.

Rod

Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Saturday,October 17, 2015, 01:24:28 PM
Outstanding! This is going to be a killer car when you're done!!!  :welder:
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Sunday,October 18, 2015, 07:56:44 AM
Roddy you savage!! I love it!!!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Sunday,October 18, 2015, 03:44:53 PM
Hey Rod, last I heard aircraft can still be painted in a solvent base here in the great white north. Try some supply shops that do aircraft supply maybe they can help.
Ross


Tom,
Thanks for the link, the video answered a question I had about hooking up the brake pipes to the pedal box.  But, I'm not too keen on the Sprint paint scheme, I think it belongs only on Elan's (just my opinion).  I did paint my old Plus 2 two tone like the Sprint, but I was never really happy with the way it looked.

 I do like the white with green: 
https://thegaragista.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/jpf13-153.jpg (ftp://thegaragista.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/jpf13-153.jpg)

Then there's this one in blue, albeit with a yellow stripe:
http://www.conceptcarz.com/images/Lotus/66_lotus-47_Num27-DV-08_MH-01.jpg (ftp://www.conceptcarz.com/images/Lotus/66_lotus-47_Num27-DV-08_MH-01.jpg)

I wouldn't paint the wheels a dark colour if I go with the blue, but with the white they sort of disappear.    The pro's for white is it hides most imperfections in the prep work of the body (think waves and small depressions), the pros for the blue is I already have 3/4 gallon of the blue paint (solvent borne).  The con's for the white are I don't have any, and the cons for the blue is whether I can get another gallon of the single stage paint.   I don't know of anyone that mixes solvent borne paint here in the great white north other than industrial suppliers, and they can't do "custom" colours, only things like black and industrial grey.   

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Sunday,October 18, 2015, 03:48:04 PM
The header is looking very nice as well.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,November 15, 2015, 09:53:41 PM
Ross,
Ya, you can still get solvent borne paint for aircraft, boats, and buildings, the problem is finding someone who will mix colours that aren't "industrial standard".

In other news, I've started to tackle the dash for the car. I've managed to get looking almost right for a Series 1 Europa without measuring a real one:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20151109_181939_zpscdnfb5sr.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20151114_123419_zpsg7b7jeaq.jpg)

And, I've hung the doors on the body using the hinges that I machined up.  The hinges work a treat, but I'm starting to understand the frustration in trying to set the gaps and keep everything tight.  I have noticed that I'll have to install the windscreen in order to get the doors exactly where I want them as the windscreen pillars have a bit of a bend in them (the roof is lower than it should be at the front).  I'm thinking I'll set the doors roughly where I want them, paint the car, install the windscreen then revisit the door gaps.  Unfortunately I didn't take any pics of the doors, but I will the next time I'm in the garage.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,November 16, 2015, 05:22:40 AM
You'll want to flat-black the dash otherwise the shiny aluminum will reflect in the windshield.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,November 16, 2015, 05:23:28 AM
More great work! This is turning out really well!  :welder:
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: HealeyBN7 on Monday,November 16, 2015, 10:04:33 AM
You'll want to flat-black the dash otherwise the shiny aluminum will reflect in the windshield.

I haven't seen that as an issue... There is always something else to worry about :)

It looks very good by the way!

Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: TheKid#9 on Tuesday,November 17, 2015, 09:29:28 AM
Great Job on the S1 Dash. I've always loved the look of it  :ttiwwp:
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Wednesday,December 02, 2015, 04:45:24 PM
Well, I attempted to make a dash top out of expanding poly foam but it didn't work very well.  So out came some aluminium and I've come up with this:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20151127_125025_zpsa8qrcqo8.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20151127_125103_zpsmvuxn3cl.jpg)

All that's left now is to sand the front of the dash top and sort out how to cover everything.

Other than that, I've fabricated an intake manifold for the bike carbs.  I'm sure I'll be hating life when I try to tune it, but it certainly looks racy:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20151130_150631_zpssjq1tlxe.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20151201_144713_zpskr3divwu.jpg)

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,December 02, 2015, 05:09:17 PM
It just keeps getting better... You certainly do really good work, Roddy!  :welder:
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: jbcollier on Wednesday,December 02, 2015, 07:31:11 PM
If I was doing it again, I would dump the Dells and fit modern bike carbs.  They flow so much better than the old Weber/Dellortos.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Wednesday,December 30, 2015, 01:32:19 PM
Even though most of my time these days has been doing this:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/MG%20TF/20151211_121555_zpsmzuilzba.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/MG%20TF/20151211_150553_zps8dbk5lxi.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/MG%20TF/20151215_160624_zps50lnmsi5.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/MG%20TF/20151216_131645_zpsahsdnwp9.jpg)

I have managed to get a wee bit of time to work on my own car.  I picked up a Honda Civic alloy rad years ago for something like $45 and had earmarked it for another project, but as my Europa came without a rad and I'm a bit of a cheap bas#$@%, I decided to modify it to somewhat fit the Europa.  I moved one of the hose connections to the other side (so both are on one tank), removed the rad cap, and fitted a baffle between the pipe connections.  Unfortunately, I haven't taken any pics of the radiator modifications, but the next time I'm in the shop I take a few and post them. But, I do have pics of the re-purposed rad cap:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20151228_194427_zps72asrd81.jpg)

I managed to clean it up in the lathe then weld it to a chunk of tube with end plates along with some fittings I turned on the lathe.  Going by the various write ups on  Zetec cooling systems, the tank should work just fine ( fingers crossed). 

Hopefully the next time I'm able to work on my own car, I'll be fabricating a pair of fuel tanks.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,December 30, 2015, 01:57:04 PM
Apparently, painting is another of your skills! I'm anxious to see your radiator! Keep up the good work!  :welder:
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Thursday,December 31, 2015, 06:48:06 AM
For a second I thought that was Santa's sleigh in for repairs.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Friday,January 08, 2016, 08:26:23 PM
Time for the first update of the year, I picked up some aluminium sheet yesterday and started on fabricating the fuel tanks.  I was hoping to get 3003 but my supplier could only provide 5052 in the thickness I was after.  Not a big deal, other than the 5052 aluminium is a pig to form.  I had my supplier shear the sheet in to the basic sizes required which cut down on a lot of cutting.  The tanks are slightly smaller in size that the stock S2 twin tanks, but should hold roughly 40 litres.  Unfortunately I ran out of Argon this afternoon, so neither tank is finished, but they're tacked together which should allow me to trial fit them into the car.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160107_130909_zpsvs84mtwg.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160107_153138_zpswqmnul71.jpg) 

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160107_162713_zpsxszqxaaf.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160107_191236_zpsk13b7xxh.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160108_140734_zpsmly0iwmi.jpg)

I'm hoping to test fit the tanks and the rad to the car on Tuesday, then finish the tanks off after grabbing another tank of Argon.  Though I'm still missing the tank sender (I think I have one somewhere in my boxes of bits) and I need to pick up some aluminium tube for the filler necks.  Once the tanks are fitted to the car I can determine where the filler necks will go as I'm going with gas caps on the sides of the car.

Rod

Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Saturday,January 09, 2016, 11:13:44 AM
Those tanks look great Rod. What are you using for pick UPS inside the tanks? 
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: buzzer on Monday,January 11, 2016, 11:16:33 AM
Rod,
That is some lovely work. I have enough problem welding steel! They will certainly look great when you finish them.

Dave
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,January 11, 2016, 01:51:26 PM
Ross,
I'm planning on welding a plate to the top of the LH tank with threaded holes so that I can make up a simple bolt on pick up.  I did something similar on my Eleven, and used a piece of copper pipe that nearly hit the bottom of the tank.  I might make up a tab or bracket in the tank to hold the bottom of the pick-up so the pipe can't bang around. Once I cut the hole for the sender I can see exactly where I'll be putting it.

Dave,
Thanks for the compliment, my aluminium welding skills are slowly improving.  It's only taken a year to figure out how to stop the aluminium from disappearing when I start an arc.  Steel, on the other hand, is a bit easier to work with.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,February 01, 2016, 07:58:17 AM
As it's the first of the month, time for a small update...  now that the fuel tanks are mostly done, I've put them on the shelf for the time being as I want to figure out a better mounting system.  I wasn't pleased with the original mounting set-up, though it does work just fine, I'd prefer something a little bit different, but more on that when I get around to it.

I have done a bit more work on the pedal box, I've now built up a balance bar, though I'm still short one COM8 spherical bearing.  The local QA1 supplier shows it on back order but lists it at $6, for that price I'm willing to wait.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160121_105722_zpscvcvbbp4.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160127_154145_zps3rf1uexf.jpg)

I've also picked up a starter motor from a Ford Focus, and after doing some research and some fiddling, I've made it work.  I had to weld in two threaded bungs to pick up two of the three mounting ears.  The top bolt goes into the original bolt hole,  the other two have new bungs.  The lower hole for the stock starter is still in place, but to re-fit the Lucas starter you would have to carve away the new bungs.  And, please excuse the gaping hole on the bellhousing, when I was first fitting the engine to the chassis it looked like the bulge would hit the frame, it doesn't and will soon be welded back up.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160127_153857_zpsogxgexop.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160127_153908_zpssrnscio5.jpg)

And, I've started on re-wrapping the wiring harness.  The car came with the old harness still in it, and luckily very little was cut or repaired.  I have removed or rather, re-wired the charging system and I've made up a separate circuit for the ignition I'm going to be running (Megajolt).  The new circuit runs off its own fuse, as I've installed a 4 fuse box instead of the original 2 fuse set up.  I've also changed the wiring for the horns, I've made provisions for a relay as I'm wanting to fit air horns (like what I had in my old +2, and what dad's old Caterham had).

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160126_211921_zpseaiovbnt.jpg)

Other than that, more time has been spent on dad's MG, the dash roll was originally covered in vinyl, but dad wanted leather to match the seats and the panels (panels originally were vinyl too (rexine i think) but he opted for leather).   Wrapping it in vinyl would have been easier, but it turned out ok in cow skin.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160121_143551_zpsa1fgu6du.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160122_145239_zps1ihljzdu.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160125_160425_zpsg553jndu.jpg)

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Monday,February 01, 2016, 08:53:52 AM
Gorgeous work Rod!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,February 01, 2016, 09:54:04 AM
It looks like both of your projects are coming along well! The leather wrap came out great! You should end up with two very cool cars!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Tuesday,February 02, 2016, 01:25:52 PM
Looks good as always Rod.  How do you find welding the aluminum?  I think you bought your TIG welder part way through this project if I remember correctly.  Did you take any classes or are you self taught?
Ross
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Tuesday,February 02, 2016, 01:43:02 PM
Ross,
You are correct, I picked up the TIG part way through the project, and yes self taught.  Though I regularly watch Welding Tips and Tricks on Youtube and Weld.com, also on Youtube.  Welding steel was very easy to pick up, but welding aluminium was a lot harder to learn.  I'm still not great at welding thin aluminium (.040" and under), but anything over .065" is easy.  Luckily I have a lot of scrap aluminium in the shop, so I have made lots of practice pieces.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Wednesday,February 03, 2016, 05:44:11 AM
Awesome!  I picked up a tig a couple of years ago and I am in the spot. I can stick some aluminum together but it gets difficult on the thin stuff.  Stacey on welding tips and tricks is a fantastic resource. 
Keep up the fabrication  :welder:
Ross
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Tuesday,February 23, 2016, 09:48:36 AM
I've been meaning to post this pic:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160221_112502_zpstdcedruk.jpg)

This is the modified $40 Honda Civic Alloy rad.  Its a bit too tall, but if I angle it, like in the photo, I think it'll work.  All I need to do is build some ducting/supports and I should be good to go. 
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,February 28, 2016, 02:44:40 PM
This weekend I did a deal with a friend for some pieces for my car, but included in the transaction was this:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160228_114151_zpschbmo3tq.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160228_121743_zpsj7omgkmb.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160228_121717_zpskuoavt6g.jpg)

Unfortunately, it came without papers but there is a serial number still on it.  I'm hoping I'll be able to track down its history.  The original idea was to sell it as is, but after looking it over, its in really decent shape (or much better shape than my car when I first picked it up).   I might build another spider type frame for it but if anyone is interested in it, send me a message.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Monday,February 29, 2016, 05:15:20 AM
It really amazes me how many of the cars crawl out of the woodwork in the greater Vancouver area.  Nice find.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Wednesday,March 02, 2016, 07:42:34 AM
Who will claim the Europa forums title of KING OF PROJECTS?!?!?!?!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Piper an on Wednesday,March 02, 2016, 01:09:24 PM
Hi mate re the civic rad if you dont mind me asking which model & what did you have  to mod regards Derek
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Wednesday,March 02, 2016, 01:35:36 PM
Derek,
It's one of these, though I bought mine 5 years ago:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-CORE-ALUMINUM-RADIATOR-FOR-HONDA-CIVIC-DEL-SOL-92-00-B16-B18-MANUAL-TRANS-/271177421898?fits=Model%3ACivic&hash=item3f236f144a:g:T64AAOSwcdBWRkr6&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-CORE-ALUMINUM-RADIATOR-FOR-HONDA-CIVIC-DEL-SOL-92-00-B16-B18-MANUAL-TRANS-/271177421898?fits=Model%3ACivic&hash=item3f236f144a:g:T64AAOSwcdBWRkr6&vxp=mtr)

I had to move both hose connections, remove the filler cap, and weld in a baffle.  Looking at it now, it would have almost been easier to start off with a rad core and build tanks.   The Civic rad is the "universal" rad for the Locost crowd in North America, though I think on your side of the Atlantic the "universal" rad is from a Polo.   

I'm hoping my setup will work, if it doesn't then I'll be shelling out for a stock sized aluminium rad.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,June 13, 2016, 07:42:55 AM
I haven't posted progress in a while as it's been just sanding, filling, sanding, filling etc.   But the end is in sight.  The goal at the moment is to have the car in its final coat of high build primer on the Canada Day long weekend.  Then in paint by September.   My helper and I have been going over the car for the past three weekends trying to find all the pin holes and other voids, which we thought we had found all of until we rolled it outside into daylight and we found even more voids and pinholes.  Oh well, I have another two weekends to get it all sorted.

Here's some pics:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160612_131521_zpsdfd51mdk.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160612_123247_zps8l48yam6.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160612_123453_zpsrjirjsbv.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160612_123234_zpsof6ro5vx.jpg)

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,June 13, 2016, 09:33:08 AM
Good light makes all the difference, doesn't it!

Good luck with your schedule! I'm looking forward to seeing your car painted!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Monday,June 13, 2016, 10:05:19 AM
Nicely done as always.  That is a long process getting everything flat and ready to go for paint.  I can't wait to see it with paint on it.  I would love to see it in person one day.
Ross
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Wednesday,June 15, 2016, 06:28:22 AM
Looking good Roddy! I cant wait to be back in sanding hell myself!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,June 27, 2016, 08:22:14 AM
This past week my gas caps arrived, well to be honest the second set of gas caps arrived.  The first set I ordered were for a 2" filler neck, and were too small for the pockets I glassed into the body.  The second set are for a 2 1/2" filler neck and look much better.  Saturday saw me turn up a pair of filler necks with a 2 1/2" 16 tpi thread, I made them in aluminium even though I am aware of galling problems.  They did get a coat of Never Seize and seem to thread on easily. 

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160626_100254_zpseuwcwa6w.jpg)

Sunday, I went to the garage where the car currently is and tried to fit them.  I managed to get one to fit reasonable well, but I still have to trim some fiberglass inside the body to make it fit a bit better.  I would have done that on the weekend, but it was just too hot out for me.  Next weekend I'll get it done.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160626_121742_zpswjoc6wi3.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160626_121729_zpsmhqt7jyg.jpg)

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Monday,June 27, 2016, 10:13:54 AM
Nicely done as always.  I like the 47 look with the filler caps and NACA ducts.  Did you finish up the gas tanks?
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,June 27, 2016, 10:19:01 AM
What Rosco said...

I always wondered what the ducts were used for. What are you using them for?
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,June 27, 2016, 10:29:06 AM
Ross,
The tanks aren't quite finished, I've been waiting to sort out the filler necks before finishing them up.  I want to make up the mounts to locate the tanks, then mate the filler neck to the tank with a rubber hose.

BDA,
The duct on the RH side feeds into a yet to be fabricated cold air box.  I've started on a transition piece that goes from the rectangular opening to 4" round so that I can run a hose to the air box.  The duct on the LH side just dumps cool air into the engine bay.

A friend sent me a write up on Lotus 47 modifications that was written sometime in the 70's, and the write up mentioned the RH duct and cold air box, but nothing for the LH vent.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: jbcollier on Wednesday,June 29, 2016, 01:13:50 AM
On a 47 one duct supplied cool air to the engine bay and the other cool air to an oil cooler.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Wednesday,June 29, 2016, 02:43:51 PM
John,
I don't think that's quite true.  In my research or at least from what I've read, the oil coolers were mounted up front not in the engine bay.  I have seen a picture (somewhere on the interwebs) that shows the cold air box on the RH side, but I've yet to see a picture of the LH vent from the engine bay.

Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Serge on Wednesday,June 29, 2016, 10:38:40 PM
Correct, the oil coolers are up front, on the opposite side of the radiator. I have a book called 'Lotus 47, Specification and maintenance notes' with a lot of articles and press releases. I'll try to find some photographs of the LH intake scoop.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,July 04, 2016, 09:36:10 AM
I managed to achieve my goal of spraying a second coat of high build primer over the weekend.  But, the body still has a bunch of pin holes/voids etc.  It looks like I'll be spending another weekend filling and sanding.  I had hoped that this coat of primer would be the last, and I could do the final wet sand, but sadly it wont be. 

The good new is the HVLP gun that I picked up last summer works a treat for spraying primer as it produces very little over spray (no upset neighbours etc).  I had used it over the winter on Dad's MG, but didn't really pay attention to what was going on around me.

Anyways, here's a few pictures:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160703_143601_zpsg2deqto3.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160703_143631_zpsfxl1mrbp.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160703_1437450_zpsdbhwyzmh.jpg)

Rod

 
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,July 04, 2016, 09:42:19 AM
I don't see any pin holes!  :)

It looks great, Roddy! She's coming along nicely!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,July 31, 2016, 03:26:04 PM
I've had the past four days off work and have managed to get some work done on the car. First off, I had the car flat decked to my parents place (better garage):

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160728_095146_zps87d7qzza.jpg)

And, I borrowed an engine hoist to put the motor and gearbox back into the chassis, I had made up some better motor mounts but still had to do some modifications to them to get the motor to sit level.  This took up the bulk of Friday's work:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160729_095322_zpsucvq9mup.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160730_135226_zps2qadv8hk.jpg)

Also, after getting the engine in place, I discovered that with the chassis I've designed, I can't use a rod shifter set up.  So, I'll be using a cable shift instead. This will hopefully be a lot easier to snake around the engine.  I already have a modified Toyota shift lever assembly, so fingers crossed it will work.

Next up was fitting the body to the chassis with the engine in place.  I hoped to not have to cut a hole in the firewall, but that didn't work out.  The motor protrudes into the cockpit by about a half inch.  The upside to the firewall hole is I now have access to the front of the motor.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160731_132507_zps50yjr5x2.jpg)

I then "dressed up" the motor and called it a day.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160731_105533_zpspcqccxtg.jpg)

 Tomorrow I'll be back at it, the goal is to have the pedal box to chassis bracket make up, the filler necks tacked together and maybe start on the center console.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160730_134152_zps1zpta6zp.jpg)

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Sunday,July 31, 2016, 04:54:36 PM
Roddy, that's looking great! You should be proud! I think the Ztech motor has belt driven cams and if so, you probably should make sure you can change the belt without taking the motor out.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,August 22, 2016, 09:56:53 AM
I managed to get two and a half days in the garage this past weekend which seemed to fly by.  Friday started off with making some flanges on the doors for the plexi side windows:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160821_154559_zpstzra0whv.jpg)

I had previously filled in the slot where the stock window passed through.  Now I'll need to find a suitable seal for the window, I'm hoping to find some furflex small enough to do it.

I also spent some time fitting some "oddie" plates to the front and rear lids.  I made up a dimple tool to press the plates, then recessed them into the body so that they are flush fitting:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160821_154522_zpsvt0unyu9.jpg)

This did require some reinforcing on the backside of the panels.  I'll be modifying some Dzus fasteners to the appropriate length once I get the Dzus springs fitted to the body.

Saturday and Sunday were a blur, I spent some time making up a pedal box brace that connects the pedal box directly to the chassis.  Unfortunately there's no picture of it yet.  It still requires some work.  I also turned some escutcheons for the door latch buttons, I may make another set with the flange slightly smaller, but that can happen at a later date:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160821_155457_zps6wlxokso.jpg)

My helper kindly spend some more time sanding and filling the doors while I got on with other tasks:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160821_1545270_zpss02scn3a.jpg)

I made up a bracket for the coolant expansion tank, but I'm not too happy with it.  The tank isn't quite level, but I at least have it where I want it:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160821_154539_zps45lru6du.jpg)

I've also fitted the handbrake lever, though this will require some surgery to clear everything:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160821_154642_zpslkkvtztz.jpg)

And at the end of Sunday I rolled the car out on the driveway to take some overall pictures.  Upon reviewing them I was shocked to see how low the Europa is compared to my mums Fiat.  Though, the rear springs are way way too soft and the dampers are resting on the bump stops, but even raising the back end a few inches the car would still be under the side mirrors of the 500.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160821_175314_zps2o9xjzi5.jpg)

One final thing, I've been told by my helper that the car must be painted the same blue as my old Eleven.  So, I now don't have to worry about finding the correct "cirrus white" paint code.


Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,August 22, 2016, 10:14:18 AM
You (and your helper) are doing a great job! Thanks for the pictures!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Monday,August 22, 2016, 11:25:17 AM
Looks great!!!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Tuesday,August 23, 2016, 12:53:35 PM
I forgot to post this pic.....

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160820_182340_zpsnddzrqs0.jpg)

Dear old dad decided that the 1/24th Europa TC model kit that I had safely stored away in his basement should be turned into a slot car.  I tried to convince him to paint it black, but he chose red.  He's yet to tell me how it runs though.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,August 23, 2016, 01:04:39 PM
Very nice, but I'll bet your car will be more fun! :)
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: TCS4605R on Tuesday,August 23, 2016, 04:39:14 PM
Rod,

Tell me about your hand brake - what car did it come from - cable details?

Thanks.

Tom
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: jbcollier on Tuesday,August 23, 2016, 08:03:18 PM
Looks like one from an MGB.  Some people have made this mod.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Tuesday,August 23, 2016, 09:42:35 PM
Tom & John,
The lever is ex-Healey Sprite, but it's not a direct bolt in, nor have I sorted the cables out yet.  With the tube chassis I have excellent access to the tunnel portion, so routing and attaching cables is a doddle.  I did have to flip the mechanism, which involved some cutting and welding, and I've yet to re-bend the rod that actuates the pawl.  It would have been simpler to use an MGB handle, but I much prefer the look of the Sprite one, plus I had one gathering dust in the garage/   
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,September 25, 2016, 08:52:49 PM
Yikes, it's been a month since I last updated my build log.  Over the past few weeks it has been more of the same, sand, fill, sand fill, sand, fill etc.  But, all of that has now come to an end.  I spent Saturday shooting the last coat of high build primer and found just a hand full of pin holes.  These were easily filled by dabbing on a bit of high build that was left in the mixing cup, so no more bloody pinholes! The body will get a guide coat next weekend, then a wet sand and it's ready for the paint booth. Now I just have to find one to use....

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160924_174725_zpsecyi0xdf.jpg)

Today saw me paint the engine bay and front compartment.  I chose gloss black because, A) I already had 3/4 of a gallon of it, and B) the semigloss black paint shows oil spots. 

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160925_123833_zpsixtps0bj.jpg)

I also sprayed the inner wheel arches body colour, but didn't get any pics of that.

Also, last weekend I started on the rad mounting: 

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160918_150135_zpsrg2rcdhe.jpg)

Hopefully the Civic rad will be up to the task of cooling a Zetec.

And, I couldn't resist hanging the carbs and exhaust back on the motor with the freshly painted engine bay:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20160925_145125_zpswfxkxh54.jpg)

I really do need to clean up the gearbox.



Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,September 26, 2016, 05:30:50 AM
She's coming along very nicely! More shop envy!

Keep it up!

 :lotus:
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,October 23, 2016, 07:35:20 PM
A bit of an update, the day finally came and the body is now blue.  Saturday morning this was how it looked:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20161022_123834_zpspnzwujbm.jpg)

And by the end of the day it looked like this (though the pic was taken this morning):

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20161023_110217_zpsxwtasqqo.jpg)

Today the freshly painted body was reunited with the chassis and rolled out into natural light.  It certainly photographs well, but it will need to be resprayed.  The paint didn't cover as well as I had hoped, so there are a few light spots.  I'm honestly not too concerned, the plan is to assemble everything as best I can, fit the doors, get it running etc, but leaving the windscreen and rear glass out (and interior) then wet sand when the weather gets a bit warmer (March/April) and re-spraying.  Here's a few pics:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20161023_114111_zpskiqysmou.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20161023_113407_zps3ndgqyal.jpg)

I'm glad my helper suggested using the same blue as my old Eleven.  It certainly looks good on John C's car, and equally as good on my S2.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,October 23, 2016, 07:58:35 PM
Congrats!  Looks beautiful.

They may both pretty on the outside but it's what's inside that counts.  There you have me cold!  If it is any consolation, I have to repaint mine as well.  Matter of fact, it has to be completely stripped as the prep work wasn't done properly.

In every life, a little rain must fall.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Sunday,October 23, 2016, 08:44:14 PM
Roddy, I'll take your word for it that you need to respray it. It certainly doesn't show. Hopefully another coat will do it.

John, I'm sorry you're having to repaint your car! That's a huge job to do over!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Bainford on Monday,October 24, 2016, 08:39:06 AM
The Europa is beautiful. It's a shame about the need to repaint, but the colour is gorgeous.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Monday,October 24, 2016, 10:24:52 AM
Rod. The car looks great in the photos. Even if you have to repaint it we can all see it is going to be fantastic.  The body looks nice and straight all those hours prepping sure are paying off.
Ross
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Monday,October 24, 2016, 12:46:06 PM
Damn straight!! Roddy it looks fantastic and when you get it finished up it is going to be a stunner!!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Saturday,January 07, 2017, 03:48:33 PM
It's been a while, thanks for all the compliments.  I haven't been able to get much done since painting, though I did put the car up on stands and removed all the suspension pieces to paint them.  The suspension was quickly put back on yesterday and today for one reason, snow. The garage the car is in is roughly 60 years old and isn't in the best of shape.  Dear old dad was over at the house where the garage is, and noticed that the snow on the roof was getting a little deep.  After doing some basic calculations it was decided that if the snow was to become saturated with water (rain), then the roof and garage might not hold.  The two of us went to the garage yesterday to try and remove the snow, but only the top 4 inches was still fluffy snow the other 10 inches had slightly melted and refroze so it was too time consuming to remove.  So, all the suspension was quickly bolted back onto the chassis (which should have only taken about an hour but I forgot three key pieces), and the car was rolled out onto the driveway.  I'm somewhat ashamed to have to store the car outside in the elements, but I'd rather have it there then potentially under a pile of rubble that was once a garage. 

Anyways, here's a few pics:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170107_125437_zpsooqh3aak.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170107_130107_zpsdpxhabuo.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170107_131124_zpsxmxzw1qg.jpg)


Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Runningwild on Saturday,January 07, 2017, 04:39:40 PM
Looks fantastic. What shade of blue is that
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Saturday,January 07, 2017, 07:58:37 PM
I agree with your caution. Thankfully your car is pretty much a boat on wheels. Good luck with the snow and your garage!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,January 08, 2017, 11:11:02 AM
Looks fantastic. What shade of blue is that

It's Ford Midnight Regatta Blue from the mid 80's.  I quite like it, and my helper has decided that all my future cars should be painted the same colour. 
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Sunday,January 08, 2017, 04:05:20 PM
Roddy that is gorgeous!! Congratulations!!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,January 08, 2017, 04:47:19 PM
Too bad you live so far away. I'd let you store it in my garage for the winter. You've done a great job of restoration and fabrication so far. Can't wait to see it completed!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,January 22, 2017, 09:41:35 PM
I can now report that the car is back in the garage.  The snow has melted and the weather has warmed slightly.  But, I haven't gone back to the garage to do any work on the car itself.  I have, however, started on fabricating one of the seats.  The seats that came with the car were aftermarket and were nothing like the stock seats.  Luckily on the yahoo forum there is a 3d file for the seats which I've copied and played around with.  I made up a dummy seat out of 1/4" plywood to see if I actually fit in the car (I do which is quite a relief), then made some paper patters and transferred them to aluminium.  I had some left over .060" thick aluminium from making the gas tanks, which turned out was just enough to make one seat.  Unfortunately I left the actual seat drawing at work, so I couldn't finish weld the seat, but at least its a start:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170121_143751_zpsk2dirfjj.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170121_152509_zpsh9wrfgtf.jpg)

I'm hoping to get the one finished up next weekend, along with modifying a set of seat tracks that I had left over from an Elan +2 that I restored 17 years ago.  I'll have to widen them slightly and trim some brackets on them, but I'm certain I can make them work.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Monday,January 23, 2017, 12:56:24 PM
Looking good Rod!  I need to get going on my seat project.  I think I am going to stick with steel though.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,February 19, 2017, 08:35:19 PM
And now I have two seats:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170219_152341_zpsldzgjmfp.jpg)

Next up is making some patterns and sewing up some seat covers.  Which brings up some questions, as the car didnt come with seats, I have no idea how the headrests attach, and is the back of the seat frame covered?  I think I have the basic side bolster covers figured out, and I realise I can make the covers however I like, but I would like to get it close to stock.

In other news, I think I've solved my flywheel/clutch dilemma.  The Ford Focus clutch uses a 9 7/16" diameter disc, the largest Renault disc I could find was 215 mm (8 7/16").  I enquired about having the Renault center put into the Focus disc, but that was a no go  Next was trying to get my hands on a 1.8l Zetec flywheel from the UK, but that proved to be pricier than I had hoped.  I did find out that the Escort ZX2 (1998 to 2003) used an 8 7/8" disc.  So, after doing a quick search on Fleabay, I now have a ZX2 flywheel in hand, and it appears the Renault clutch will work.  I haven't bolted things together yet, but fingers crossed it will work.  Hopefully next weekend I'll get some time to pull the gearbox and bellhousing off the motor and bolt things together.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: HealeyBN7 on Tuesday,February 21, 2017, 07:05:20 AM
I enquired about having the Renault center put into the Focus disc, but that was a no go 
Rod

I did just that by having Clutchnet fabricate a new clutch disk using a Renault center and to a diameter of my choice.  It should be rather easy for them.  They did something similar when I used a Toyota trans and mounted it into a Healey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT0iPWQV6Qs

Chutchnet: 2458 Merced Ave, South El Monte, CA 91733
Phone: (626) 448-7432

Not sure if they have a working web site... Pretty sure they are still in business.

Dean

 
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: skoolsen on Tuesday,February 21, 2017, 07:21:26 AM
Hi
I used a clutch disc from a peugeot 605 v6 24v 240mm, this fits the ng3 box and Focus Zetec flywheel/pressure plate.
I did a search in Sachs online catalog and found this among others to have the same spline as The ng3 box.

Magnar
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Tuesday,February 21, 2017, 07:45:42 AM
Dean,
I went through your PDF and tried to look up Clutchnet online, but their website didn't work.   Though, I'd rather have an "off the shelf" clutch, I know I'll never have to replace the clutch, but if it ever needs replacing I wouldn't want to have to wait for a custom disc to be made.  I do seem to recall when the shop I worked at was converting a BN4 to a Toyota box we had the "clutch guy" in town make up a custom disc.  BTW, dear old dad and I restored a BN7 when I was in highschool, some days I wish he still had that car.

Magnar,
I never thought to look at Peugots for clutch discs.  The downside is the 605 never came to North America, so finding one locally isn't an option.  I'll do some internet searching and see if I can find a supplier that will ship one to the wet coast of Canada.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: skoolsen on Tuesday,February 21, 2017, 12:02:16 PM
Citroen also used the same spline size in some discs. If you check the ZF Sachs online catalog, first for the Renault Espace wich used the NG3 box and look for spline size on the disc. You can search for similar spline and disc diameter in other cars and makes.
Very useful.

This is the sachs number on the disc 76 1862 689 001
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,March 19, 2017, 03:38:54 PM
A little bit of progress was made this weekend, I dropped the bellhousing off at a machine shop to have the NG3 input bearing/seal/sleeve installed.  I'll hopefully have it back by next weekend.  I also picked up some material for my sway bars and drop links.  The bars themselves are made from  5/8" diameter 1020 DOM tubing and the drop links have RH and LH threaded rod ends to allow easier adjustment.  The clamps for the bar took the better part of Saturday afternoon, while the mounting brackets for the front bar took less than an hour.  I still need to fab the rear mounting brackets, that's next weekends job. 

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170318_181034_zpsjhmgtnln.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170319_113446_zpsvu4v7cm5.jpg)

In regards to the material chosen for the sway bars, I've done some research and most will say to use 4130 steel, but others have gotten away with mild steel (1010 etc).  Only time will tell if I've made the right choice.  Also, in terms of how still the bars are, the front is roughly 80 lb/in while the rear is slightly less at around 60 lb/in.  Is this enough, again only time will tell. 

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: andy harwood on Sunday,March 19, 2017, 03:54:09 PM
Very nice & neat work.
Did you weld in a threaded insert or tap the drop links for the rod ends?
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,March 19, 2017, 04:23:02 PM
Andy,
I tapped the tubing, the rod ends are 5/16" UNF and the tube is 1/2" DOM with a wall of .125".  All that was needed was to slightly open up the tube with the appropriate sized drill for the tap and cut the tube to the lengths required (based on the 3d model I have in CAD). 

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: andy harwood on Sunday,March 19, 2017, 04:28:46 PM
Thanks for the info.
I've seen the weld in inserts, and couldn't  tell if that is what you did.
Later, I'll need to make some rear upper suspension links, and have been wondering which method to use.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,March 19, 2017, 04:31:45 PM
All the other rear suspension pieces I fabbed have the welded in threaded inserts.  I amde the inserts  too, but if i were to do it again I would buy them.  I spent way too much time making them.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,March 19, 2017, 05:53:24 PM
I'm not sure I read it correctly.  The sway bar is to be 5/8 tubing?  What wall thickness? If you going to use tubing, it is going to have to be thick wall and bigger in diameter.  I can bend 0.060 wall, 5/8 SS seamless tubing by hand.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,March 19, 2017, 07:57:22 PM
John,
The bars are 5/8" with a .125" wall.  So fairly heavy duty in terms of tubing.  Using the formula's in Staniforths books, I should be ok in terms of material size, my only concern with them is how long they will last (5k miles, 50k miles etc).  Even if they only survive 5k miles I'll be happy.  The other thing too is sizing, from the notes that I've gathered, 5/8" should be fine for the rear bar, but the front may require a slightly larger bar (though for what I'll be using the car for, I doubt it would notice a big difference). 

And, in terms of bending them, bending them by hand didnt work at all.  I had to break out the 10 ton press.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Sunday,March 19, 2017, 09:22:50 PM
Torsion stresses are mainly on the outer circumference of a bar which is the reason that before Lotus used their tiny anti-roll bars on the 72, most race cars used tubular anti-roll bars. Of course it still has to be stiff enough. In general, the relevant parameters are the effective length of the lever arm and the diameter and length of the torsion part of the bar. The alloy of steel makes almost no difference.


Roddy, I'm not making any judgement on the appropriateness of of yours (I don't know the parameters for determining a good size), but I would say that 5/8" dia is pretty small compared to most I've seen. The stock TC anti-roll bar is much thicker and it is thicker than the S2 bar. Judging from what you've already done, I suspect you've done your homework so I'll just say I'm surprised that you need such a small bar.


BTW - beautifully done as always!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,March 20, 2017, 07:56:07 AM
BDA,
I managed to find the notes I had collected on the 47, the stock front bar was 5/8" diameter and the rear was 11/16" dia.  Lotus was also using 188 lb/in front springs and 215 lb/in rears on the 47.  I'm currently using 200 lb/in fronts and 275 lb/in rears (which should give roughly what the 47 had for a wheel rate at the rear and slightly firmer for the front), so I think I should be ok with the front bar, but now I'm thinking the rear should be a bit larger (the lever arm portion of the bar is quite longer than the front, hence the larger diameter required).   Once the car is on the road I at least have a starting point, currently I have a grand total of $73 US invested in both front & rear bars and drop links.  I'm sure the car budget can handle another set of bars in the future. 

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,March 20, 2017, 11:20:01 AM
I figured you had a good reason to use those bars!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,April 03, 2017, 07:31:42 AM
I managed to get two days, well one and a half days working on the car this past weekend.  I picked up a clutch kit Saturday morning and spent most of Saturday afternoon trying to dismantle the NG3 bellhousing I had so that I could rob the clutch fork from it along with the release bearing.  The previous weekend I picked up the TC bellhousing from the machine shop,  I had the bellhousing modified to accept the NG3 input bearing/seal assembly.  Saturday that was pressed back in.  I had hoped to use the bearing provided in the clutch kit that I picked up (Ford Escort ZX2) and lo and behold, by machining up a spacer it will fit on the NG3 release bearing carrier.  On Sunday I went to the garage where the car is and fitted it all up...

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170402_105049_zpstf43uqak.jpg) 

The bearing will require a spacer to put it closer to the pressure plate.  I'm not to upset about it, I had somewhat figured that it would require more work.  The other obstacle I ran into was the clutch cross shaft.  I had hoped to rework it with the lever pointing up as I'll be using a slave cylinder, but after bolting the bellhousing back onto the motor, the shaft is directly under the upper crossmember on the chassis that I've built.

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170402_105446_zpsb4stiiro.jpg)

After some thinking I think I can make it work with a bent lever.  It wont be as strong or as light as a straight lever, but compromises have to be made.  The other thing I'll be sorting is the length of the lever and the size of the slave cylinder.  I've measured the distance the clutch master moves while depressing the pedal, but until I make the spacer for the release bearing I cant measure the distance required for the slave cylinder/clutch shaft lever to move in order to disengage the clutch.  Hopefully next weekend I'll get off to the metal shop to grab some steel bar stock to make the spacer.

One last thing, it sure is easy to work on the clutch in this car.  I'm able to sit behind the motor even with the body on.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,April 03, 2017, 08:24:54 AM
Looking good, Roddy!


WRT your clutch slave and M/C,  how are you going to size them? Are you going to start with how much pedal travel you want and go from there?
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,April 03, 2017, 08:37:13 AM
BDA,
That's pretty much it.  I currently have a 5/8" master cylinder which travels 7/8" when fully depressed (giving a displacement of 0.2684 cu in).  Once the spacer is machined and installed I can put a tube  (to make the lever longer) over the current clutch lever and measure the distance required (at a known point on the lever) for the clutch to release the disc.  Using some maths I can then determine how far the slave has to travel again using a known point on the clutch lever and determine the bore of slave required.  I'm hoping that I wont have to change the master cylinder, but if needed .70" and 3/4" are easy to source.  Once it's all sized I'll see what the pedal effort it like before bolting up the gearbox. 


Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,April 09, 2017, 04:50:13 PM
I made some progress this weekend, but I`m still not able to size the slave cylinder.  Saturday I picked up some aluminium and a boring bar set so that I could turn a bearing spacer on the lathe. The boring bars took a bit of set up time, but once I got everything lined up I managed to turn up a nice shiny spacer:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170408_144237_zpsdmwodomz.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170408_145124_zpsdz34zmyx.jpg)

I had measured everything twice, and checked my calculations a few times, so this should have worked.  Unfortunately, when I went to the other garage today and went to bolt things together, the bearing was spaced out too far.  So after a few curse words, the dial calipers came out and I now know how much I need to remove from the spacer.  But, that will have to wait till next weekend. 

Other than that issue, I did manage to tidy up the rear chassis cross member, install the oil filter mount to it, machine up some bungs that got welded to the oil filter adaptor (there was no room for elbows so I welded on some bits) and as I had the cross member off the car, the rear sway bar mounts were fabricated today and installed (temporarily):

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170409_150158_zpsamciv3sy.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170409_150217_zpsejkxmrnz.jpg)

So, hopefully by this time next weekend I will have sorted the clutch and will have moved on to finalising the exhaust, along with a whole list of things to do.  The current goal is to have the motor run inside the next month. 

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Sunday,April 09, 2017, 05:20:20 PM
Things are really starting to come together! Did you make the flanged holes in the fiberglass for the cross member? I would have assumed that the original S2 had a smaller relief for the cross member (my TCS did) and it looks nicely done!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,April 09, 2017, 06:28:25 PM
BDA,
The only modification I've done to the engine bay is are the trailing arm covers and a very small notch at either side of the rear portion of the chassis.  The flanged openings are either stock or were done during the cars previous life.  I may have to enlarge them slightly to clear the sway bar as I haven't checked the clearances at full bump or droop.

Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Mike Surber on Tuesday,April 11, 2017, 08:03:14 AM
Are the rear shocks at stock angle? They look to be laid down more. The lower the angle the less efficient they are. Looking good though.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: SwiftDB4 on Tuesday,April 11, 2017, 08:12:41 AM
The shocks look stock angle for a 47. Very nice work Rod.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Tuesday,April 11, 2017, 08:29:54 AM
Mike and SwiftDB4,
Thanks for the compliments. 

Mike,
The shocks aren't anywhere close to being at the stock angle for a Europa, and as SwiftDB4 pointed out they are close to what the 47 had.  I've managed to get some dimensions from some 47 owners and have calculated the wheel rates and suspension frequencies they use, which I then worked backwards with my design.  The current springs are 275 lb/in in the rear and 200 lb/in for the front.  I will most likely be changing the rear spring rate once I get the car on the road and sorted.

As for them being less efficient, I am aware of that, but as I'm trying to mimic the 47 I'm stuck with them being at that angle.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Tuesday,April 18, 2017, 09:22:36 AM
I managed to get some time in the garage this past weekend, and finally got the clutch to work.  I had to shorten the spacer roughly 5/8" and now it actually works.  I did some measuring while moving the clutch cross shaft lever and I know should have all the info I need to size the slave cylinder.  I just need to do some CAD work.

Other than that, I made up the exhaust system and offered it up the car.  It looks like it will work, but it will be very noisy.   I'm sure I'll be making another system in the future:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170417_115627_zpsvcvxokh0.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170417_145912_zpsuhyy8ttw.jpg)

I still need to fabricate a mount for the rear portion of the exhaust, but I can't do that until the gearbox is bolt up to the motor.  I attempted bolting the 'box to the motor yesterday, but my back just couldn't handle lifting the box into place one handed and trying to install the bolts.  It certainly didn't help that the clutch disc moved slightly while I was testing the clutch.  Next weekend I'll take another stab at it, and hopefully have some help.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,April 18, 2017, 10:09:46 AM
Nice work as usual, Rod.


Put the tranny on a floor jack. Then you can move around or up and down and it doesn't put as much strain on your back.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Bainford on Wednesday,April 19, 2017, 09:00:58 AM
Oh man, that thing is going to bark!  ;) Looks good, Rod.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,May 08, 2017, 08:08:44 AM
So the gearbox has been in and out of the car at least 3 times now, I'm getting better at installing it.  The latest install took all of 4 minutes and fingers crossed it's the last time that I'll have to install it.  I spent most of Saturday fabricating a slave cylinder mount and Sunday it was in the car:
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170507_103048_zpszsmfhbah.jpg)

I've gone with a 13/16" dia slave cylinder, time will tell if I've chosen the right one.  The slave is from a mid eighties Toyota Corolla and cost a whopping $6 on Rock Auto (with shipping it landed in Vancouver at $20). 

I've also started on a different gearbox mount, I wasn't happy with the Mk 1 version as it hung too low at the rear of the car.  Unfortunately I didn't get it finished this weekend, but I'm hoping to have something at least tacked together by next weekend. 

Other than that, I drilled some holes in the front luggage compartment/heater plenum area for the pedal box hoses.  I still have to make up a reinforcing plate for where the hose ends pass through the fiberglass, but at least now I can finally sort out the brake line routing:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170507_114844_zpsyldz2dew.jpg)

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170507_114850_zpssdouog8q.jpg)


Rod



Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Monday,May 08, 2017, 12:31:44 PM
Hey Rod, that looks great!   I have a question where did you get those bulkhead fittings for the brakes I have been looking for some for another project.
Thanks,
Ross
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,May 08, 2017, 12:52:25 PM
Ross,
The fittings you see are the long end of the brake hose.  But, I think Gregg Distrubutors in Port Kells has them as they carry BrakeQuip, failing that Mopac might have them.  I had Gregg make up the brake hoses for the pedal box and the rear calipers. 

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Bainford on Tuesday,May 09, 2017, 09:32:36 AM
Very impressive stuff Rod. I really like where you are going with this. And that raft of carburettors just makes me giddy.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Wednesday,May 24, 2017, 01:19:24 PM
I've managed to make some minor progress over the last few weeks.  I wasn't pleased with the existing gearbox mount, so a Mk 2 version was created, unfortunately it didn't quite fit, so this past weekend was spent cutting it apart and rewelding:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170513_160717_zpstc3mokqg.jpg)

I still have to sort out the rear body mount, but I think it should be relatively easy and be fairly elegant. 

I've also started on the shift mechanism.  I picked up a pair of 84" cables that are slightly too long, but I'm sure I can tie them back to the chassis to take up some length.  I fabricated a bellcrank for the side to side cable and re-used a lever I had left over from a Coventry Climax firepump:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170522_152147_zpstjjjestv.jpg)

The lever required a bit of filing to get it over the splines on the NG3, luckily the pinch bolt lines up nicely with the hole through the gearbox shaft.  Keen viewers will notice the CV axles in place, the output shafts aren't fixed to the splines just yet.  I still have to measure a few more times before cutting them up to mate up with the Renault bits.  The shafts themselves are Golf Mk 3, which have turned out to be the exact length I needed for my build.

And, I rolled it out into the sun to have a look at it again in natural light (and to get me motivated again):

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc171/HockeyRoddy/20170522_152300_zpsmbcvgpsc.jpg)

This upcoming weekend I'm picking up a used seat cover that a friend kindly donated.  I'll be making up patterns and sewing some covers for my seats in the near future.  There most likely will be a CAD file created for the patterns, should anyone be interested.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,May 24, 2017, 01:45:30 PM
It keeps getting better and better, Rod! The paint is beautiful!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Wednesday,May 24, 2017, 04:05:55 PM
Looks great as always.  So are you using Mk3 golf axles straight out of the box or are they Mk3 axles with porsche 930 joints?  I have a VW transaxle from a 2003 passat and I am going to be looking at VW bits to make that work and some sandrail bits to make my outer hubs work but I thought I would make an adapter for the Passat output shafts so I could run all 930 joints like the sand rails.
Ross
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Wednesday,May 24, 2017, 04:18:42 PM
Ross,
Straight out of the box Mk 3 axles, so 100mm inner CV joints.  The bearings and hubs in the uprights I fab'd are Mk 3 as well, though the gearbox output flanges that I'm going to carve up are late Mk 2 items (but still 100mm). 

As far as adapters, I found this website that has weld on and bolt on adapters to go from 100mm to 108mm:
http://www.shop.drdracingproducts.com/Rear-end-parts_c3.htm (http://www.shop.drdracingproducts.com/Rear-end-parts_c3.htm)

Depending on what my machinist says about cutting the stock VW bits, I might have to have a pair of the weld on 100mm adapters sent over unless I can find a source a little closer to town.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Thursday,September 14, 2017, 03:48:30 PM
A long overdue update, back in June I made a stand to elevate the body to allow the chassis to be rolled out from under it.  This has helped immensely with working on the mechanical bits:

(https://image.ibb.co/nARSOk/20170703_115011.jpg)

(https://image.ibb.co/jyOJUQ/20170703_140839.jpg)

I've also spent some time (and a small amount of money) fabricating the CV adapters.  I ended up welding on some steel donuts rather than chopping up the VW bits.  I welded the flanges on, faced them off in the lathe then handed them off to my machinist to have the holes drilled and tapped.  I'm very pleased with the results:

(https://image.ibb.co/k9NZ3k/20170902_153216.jpg)

(https://image.ibb.co/kJsqb5/20170909_151538_0.jpg)

The next step is finalizing the shift cable brackets, then finalizing the coolant pipes.  Also, over the next while I'll re-link the photos (there's no way I'm going to pay Photobucket to host, so I'll have to go through each entry in the thread and replace the links).

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Thursday,September 14, 2017, 05:54:55 PM
More great stuff, Roddy! I can't wait for you to get the body on!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: andy harwood on Thursday,September 14, 2017, 06:32:37 PM
Your work looks great!
I like the way you constructed the CV adapters. After welding the donuts on the yoke, and facing, did you true up the circumference for the machinist to index on for drilling the bolt holes? (just curious, as someone who seems to excel in making scrap metal on my lathe).
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Thursday,September 14, 2017, 06:44:44 PM
Andy,
I did true up the edge.  I had the metal shop I buy from cut me two pieces of 4" diameter 1018, I started off facing them on one side, drilling and boring the center to the diameter I decided on, welded them to the turned down Renault bits, then faced off the CV joint side and truing up the edge.  Luckily 100mm (I'm using 100mm VW CVs) is slightly smaller than 4", so I had some material to play with. 

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: 4129R on Thursday,September 14, 2017, 10:54:33 PM
And then you have to find something to brace the seat belts to.

On normal cars they are connected via bolted brackets to the top mount for the rear shox.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,September 15, 2017, 04:01:33 AM
Very impressive work!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Friday,September 15, 2017, 07:24:10 AM
Quote
And then you have to find something to brace the seat belts to.

On normal cars they are connected via bolted brackets to the top mount for the rear shox.

Alex,
I think that's only true with Twin Cams.  My car didn't come with any braces and doing a quick search through the parts books, the seatbelt section for the S2 only shows the belts, no braces or brackets.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: jbcollier on Friday,September 15, 2017, 09:42:14 AM
The S1 has a brace back to the chassis on the upper seatbelt mount.  I'd have thought the S2 would as well.

Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Friday,September 15, 2017, 09:56:35 AM
John,
You would think they would have one.  Looking through the online S2 parts books shows the 46B1177 & 46B1178 part numbers but only lists them as fitting the S1.  I do know that the bobbin for the upper seat belt mount on my car is threaded, is the bobbin on the 46 and the TC body threaded or is it a through hole type bobbin?

In any event, If I wanted to add a brace I could.  All that would be required is a few tabs welded to the chassis and some braces fabricated.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: skippopotamus on Sunday,September 17, 2017, 07:25:16 AM
Hey Rod, the upper seat belt mounts on the S2 are pretty wimpy.  Mine just broke out of their bonding and started spinning when I tried to remove the eyes that hold the belt.  I was going to make something like what the Twin Cams have that ties into the rear shock mounts but yesterday I saw a car with this roll bar.  I'm sure it's heavy but it looks like a much better way to go.  I'm going to make one for my S2.

http://www.safetydevices.com/motorsport/products/roll-cage/Lotus+Europa+Twin+Cam-1971-1972-2-door/100/961/
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: skippopotamus on Sunday,September 17, 2017, 07:39:10 AM
I should have mentioned this.  That roll bar goes inside the car against the firewall.  Which is what I like about it so much. 
The other bars I had seen go outside the firewall through holes and up around the outside of the rear window.  Then the braces goes through the deck lid.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,September 17, 2017, 05:00:47 PM
Skip,
I have thought about fabricating a roll bar for the car and using it as a mount for the seatbelts.  But it would be behind the cockpit/rear window.   A friend has a Europa with the roll bar in the cockpit and I could barely fit in the car.  I dont know if the bar was the Safety Devices one, but the bar in his car pushed the seats forward about 4 inches.  My feet were right at the end of the pedal box, there was no way I could drive. 

I'm now thinking more and more about making a brace that ties the upper mount back to the chassis, but I'll have to plonk the body back on the chassis with all the manifolds in place in order to make sure they fit.

Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: skippopotamus on Sunday,September 17, 2017, 07:40:07 PM
Yeah, four inches is a deal killer especially in a little car.
That one goes around the outside edges of the seat but there's still a bar going across right below the rear window.  So there has to be about a two inch penalty.  The person who owned the car was definitely taller than me.  Maybe 6'- 6'1". 
I might make mine out of smaller tube.  I want more to improve the seat belt mount rather than true roll over protection.
Any way, something to chew on.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Tuesday,November 14, 2017, 07:25:33 AM
Time for an update, dear old dad has allowed me to bring the chassis to his place (where I have all my tools and space to work).  The goal was to have a running chassis by the end of this past long weekend.  Long story short, it's not running.  But, I did get a ton of work done, though when you step back and look at the result there isn't a lot to see.  I now have all the cooling pipes sorted, a new rear body mount set up including a battery tray:

(https://image.ibb.co/cxGdtG/20171110_143655.jpg)

(https://image.ibb.co/h7fSnb/20171110_182106.jpg)

I've modified the shift cable brackets so that the cables don't share the same space as the inner CV joint:

(https://image.ibb.co/cbRdtG/20171112_173021.jpg)

And sorted the serpentine belt routing/alternator mount & adjuster:

(https://image.ibb.co/dU5tSb/20171113_121225.jpg)

The belt does clear the chassis on the alternator side by at least an inch, the photo is deceiving. 

The little thing that took the most amount of time was sorting the remote oil filter adapter on the block, the hoses had to point somewhat rearward, but tightening the adapter enough to keep the oil in had the hoses pointing in every direction except where I wanted them.  The oil filter adapter required some careful turning on the lathe which sorted that out, but it took nearly 6 hours to get right.  I can say that the used Zetec (condition really unknown) does show 75 psi when cranking on the starter, so fingers crossed it will run. 

Next weekend I hope to have the carbs mounted firmly on the manifold, the fuel pump plumbed in and the ignition computer wired up.  I really want to make smoke....

Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,November 14, 2017, 07:38:42 AM
I've been waiting for another update about your car, Roddy! She's starting to really take shape and she's looking really good!
So you're going with carbs rather than the injection? Now might be a good time to do a leak down test on your motor.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Tuesday,November 14, 2017, 07:52:16 AM
BDA,
The plan all along was to use carbs, and I had picked up a set of Honda CBR900RR carbs when I started the project.  Whether or not that was a good idea wont be found out until it's on the road.  I have been toying with the idea of Megasquirt and throttle bodies, but the cost is a bit outside of the budget.  I can always swap the carbs for bike throttle bodies sometime down the road as the manifold should accept both carbs and throttle bodies.

Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: SwiftDB4 on Tuesday,November 14, 2017, 08:31:21 AM
Great job on your fabrication. On the oil filter adapter they do make 2 piece 'adjustable' ones that allow the hoses to be cranked to the desired position before tightening the adapter to the block. They're only about $25 and I have an extra one if yours doesn't work.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Bainford on Tuesday,November 14, 2017, 08:44:05 AM
Excellent work. Great craftsmanship, and the project is coming along quite nicely. I'm very glad to see carbs instead of FI.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Tuesday,November 14, 2017, 09:51:46 AM
More great progress Rod!  I really like the 47 style rear suspension.  Did you get the rear geometry from 47 plans or did you work it out yourself?  I have been trying to find 47 plans with rear suspension geometry so I can figure out if I want to go that route and get rid of the rear swing arms.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Wednesday,November 15, 2017, 07:37:12 AM
Rosco,
Here's a comparison of my car vs 47 vs stock:

(https://image.ibb.co/cWf7oR/Suspension_Comparisonl.jpg)

The 47 certainly had some wide tires.  Also, check your email, I sent you a note.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,November 15, 2017, 03:52:04 PM
Lots of suspension adjustments, you should be able to dial in any kind of handling you want! I’m assuming this is a track car and not a street car?
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Wednesday,November 15, 2017, 04:16:11 PM
Quote
I’m assuming this is a track car and not a street car?

It's a "rattle your fillings out" street car.  If I find it too harsh I might make up some new suspension pieces with rubber or poly bushings, but that would be once I have it dialed in.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: LotusJoe on Thursday,November 16, 2017, 11:05:14 AM
(http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/albums/album13/Rear_trailing.jpg)
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Thursday,November 16, 2017, 11:51:44 AM
Joe,
I had to check my CAD model to remind myself, with the length of the shortest trailing arm (top) the vertical displacement at the upright is 5.2" each way (bump and droop) with the arm horizontal, but the upper arm at ride height angles up towards the rear.  I still have to swap out the suspension bolts on one side, so I'll have a look to see if there is any is any issues when I have the shock bolts out.  Turning the clevis is as easy as loosening the nut and rotating. 
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: LotusJoe on Thursday,November 16, 2017, 11:57:50 AM
Joe,
I had to check my CAD model to remind myself, with the length of the shortest trailing arm (top) the vertical displacement at the upright is 5.2" each way (bump and droop) with the arm horizontal, but the upper arm at ride height angles up towards the rear.  I still have to swap out the suspension bolts on one side, so I'll have a look to see if there is any is any issues when I have the shock bolts out.  Turning the clevis is as easy as loosening the nut and rotating.
The one at the upright looks to be an easy fix (if you have to anything), however on the frame end it looks to be a different story, since the attachment fixture is welded.   :confused:
If need be, you could add misalignment spacers. They would give you a much as 30 degrees or articulation.
 
(http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/albums/album13/misalignment_spacer.jpg)
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,November 27, 2017, 10:46:01 AM
A small update, but no pics, I managed to make smoke on Sunday.  I chased a faulty (or might have been incorrect) crank position sensor for a few hours on Saturday.  It was an odd feeling sitting the garage with a laptop trying to get a spark from the sparking plugs.  Anyways, with the new CPS installed and wired correctly (first go 'round had the wires backwards), I managed to get a spark.  I still don't have the fuel pump connected, so with a shot of quick start down each carb, the motor fired for a brief moment.  Next weekend will see the fuel system somewhat finished and another go at making smoke for a longer period of time.  I'm sure there will be leaks, but it finally looks like the end is getting close in terms of the mechanical side of things.

Joe, in regards to miss alignment spacers, I designed the chassis pick-up points and clevises with spacers in mind.   I did look at the clevis orientation on the rear uprights and the rod ends do bind if they're rotated vertical.  There is no bind if they're horizontal (that is unless the shocks are disconnected). 

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Tuesday,November 28, 2017, 03:39:13 PM
Hey that's really exciting!  Making smoke is always fun. :pirate:
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Sunday,December 03, 2017, 07:03:52 PM
Well, after swapping out a water pump, and putting new o-rings in the carb fuel tees, it actually runs.

https://youtu.be/x6p24hyJAyw (https://youtu.be/x6p24hyJAyw)

It still requires a bunch of tuning, but for the time being I'm done with the motor.  Next up is getting the rest of the mechanical bits sorted and painted.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Sunday,December 03, 2017, 07:19:46 PM
Great news, Roddy!  :beerchug:  It sounds great!
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,December 03, 2017, 07:38:42 PM
Sweet !
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,January 08, 2018, 07:29:09 AM
This past weekend the chassis was officially declared "done", and was sent back to where the body is.  The goal for this month is to have the car sent off to a paint shop to re-spray it.  I've given up on painting it myself as a) I can't seem to find a paint booth to rent, and b) I'm growing tired of painting.  Anyways, here are a few pics of the completed chassis on the driveway (waiting for the flat deck):

(https://image.ibb.co/dawAsR/Chassis_Complete.jpg)

(https://image.ibb.co/bZzkRm/Chassis_Complete_2.jpg)

I still need to source another Miata rear caliper, and some 5/16 rod ends to have the chassis totally finished, but those items can be added once the body is on.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Monday,January 08, 2018, 07:37:38 AM
Looking good Roddy! I can't wait to see it with the body on!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Bainford on Monday,January 08, 2018, 08:38:31 AM
The chassis shows some seriously good work. Very tidy and looking the biz. I am impressed.
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Tuesday,January 09, 2018, 11:42:39 AM
I got all my rod ends from Summit Racing in the states for my lifted truck.  I believe they have QA1 brand rod ends and were very reasonably priced at the time.  Looks great Rod!  I hope to see it at the ABFM and in a couple of years mine there too.
Ross
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,January 09, 2018, 12:06:12 PM
For another idea... back when I was racing, I was impressed by NMB rod ends and bearings. Baker Precision sells them (http://www.bakerprecision.com/rodend.htm).
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,January 15, 2018, 07:27:33 AM
Well, the body is back on and the wet sanding is now complete (at least for me).  I'm hoping the car will be off to the paint shop later this week or on the weekend.

(https://image.ibb.co/b2sAmm/Body_back_on.jpg)



I have no finger prints left from all the sanding, and I'm certain I didn't get everything done, but I'll instruct the paint guys to go over the car one last time before spraying, just to get it right.  I did have to pull the body back off to trim the foam I had used on the tunnel.  It was slightly too thick and pulled back on itself which stopped the body from dropping down onto the frame.  I used 1/4" closed cell foam, which I thought would be too thin, but turned out to be "just" right. 

Next up is building seats, I still have to finish weld the frames and sort out the seat slides (ex-Elan +2 that will be getting the cut-off wheel and TIG treatment).  Thanks to Dakazman for the foam dimensions and assembly photo's I think I should be able to get them finished while the car is away.  Skippopotamus kindly sent me a set of old seat covers to make patterns which made sewing the covers a breeze.  I'll post photo's when I start shaping foam and covering.

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: dakazman on Monday,January 15, 2018, 07:40:35 PM
 Roddy ,your build looks great.

Please check my dimensions of my trays and compare with yours. I only caution this , before cutting foam because it has been brought up ther are some differences on other threads.
Dave
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: Rosco5000 on Wednesday,January 17, 2018, 02:54:27 PM
Hey Rod,
I have an extra set of old side foam pieces if you want them for a template, might help you get in the right ball park quicker.
Ross
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: RoddyMac on Wednesday,January 17, 2018, 03:28:58 PM
Ross,
That would great, it would definitely help.  The only downside is I don't know when I'd be heading out your way other than tonight (picking up a caliper from a guy in Langley).

Rod
Title: Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
Post by: dakazman on Thursday,January 18, 2018, 05:26:30 AM
The chassis shows some seriously good work. Very tidy and looking the biz. I am impressed.

   Exactly my thoughts , and very nice video.  The body looks good also.
dakazman