Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: 3929R on Monday,February 25, 2013, 04:15:09 PM
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Last summer I replaced the rotten "SemiChrome" windshield surround on my TCS. Use of the original style replacement trim requires removal of the windshield. However, I was worried I might break the windshield while trying to remove it and wanted to spend my time on more pressing matters needed to get the car back on the road. So, I came up with this alternative as a temporary fix (the original surround seemed to be a temporary fix).
On my TCS the "SemiChrome" plastic was so soft and rotten that I could pull it off/out without removing the windshield. I did this on a hot summer day when the black windshield sealant was also soft and "mushy." My windshield is not stock and I don't know if the sealant is urethane or? I do not think my seal was water tight before removing the shiny plastic. Regardless, I injected more sealant and topped it off with flexible, adhesive backed "chrome" molding (aka new and improved shinny plastic). As the windscreen was not totally level with its frame, aligning the flexible chrome took some coaxing, a bit of poly glue, a lot of tape (both for masking the paint and windshield and holding the trim in place while the glue and sealant set up).
In my humble opinion it looks very good, even up close. It is at least good enough for my car. I'm not sure how water tight the seal on my windshield is as I have not driven in the rain (and around here I may never find the occasion to) but it did not leak while washing the car. My new trim has been on less than a year, so I can not comment on how long it will last. But if/when it fails I will be no worse off then I was, just $40 poorer.
Here is the flexible chrome I used- http://www.sportwing.com/chromebritemolding1wide.aspx I think it is 1/8" narrower than stock but the corner pieces were easy to adjust with a pair of smooth jaw, needle nose pliers.
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That looks great,
i am still thinking my way through my windshield issue. it has a few leaks, but the glass it self is in good shape.
25% of the surround is missing or no longer in the slot.
like yours, ive been told mine has a channel wrapped around the glass, and thus can not removed without windshield being removed, and windshield is likely to break if removed.
can you tell me more about how you removed it with out taking out the windshield?
also, can you please provide link to the new chrome you used?
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The old trim on mine was fairly soft and quite flexible. In places I could simply pull it out with my hands, slowly and carefully. Elsewhere I pulled it out with pliers or Vice-Grip type pliers. Again I went very slowly and carefully. There was a section that at first I could not remove so I cut it off flush with a Dremel type of tool. However, as the day grew warmer I found I could pull it all out. Other than that I don't remember doing anything special to get it out. My success probably had a lot to due with the deteriorated state of the stock trim and the 'gooeyness' of the black sealant, that and dumb luck. The warmth of the day probably helped but I would not use any sort of heat gun or hair dryer as that could crack the glass!
Here is the flexible chrome I used- http://www.sportwing.com/chromebritemolding1wide.aspx The 14' length was sufficient. The flexible chrome came in a roll that I cut into proper lengths and laid out flat in the garage for a week or so before proceeding.
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That is really excellent. It looks great and the only reason you'd guess it might not be original is that it looks shiny, which IMO is how it should look. I replaced mine several years ago when I did the screen and you could buy the trim from Lotus dealers, but even as new it was always a dull sheen and never a good, chrome or polished aluminium like shine.
Great job.
Brian
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WOW! First rate job. I'm interested in learning out how well the bond holds up in the summer heat.
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I put it on late last spring. It survived the first summer just fine, but time will tell.
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Wow! That windshield trim looks great. I've noticed many Europas on-line that have had all of the trim removed and left off. I inquired of one owner if he left the trim off (only the black seal remaining) because he preferred the look. He replied that when he replaced the windshield, the plated trim was impossible to re-fit. I was a bit puzzled but didn't press for more details. I thought that there might be some logic to his reply as so many Europas have the plated trim removed and left off. I'm glad to know that, true or not, there is an alternative. nice work.
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Your trim looks great! thanks for the pics and directions on removing trim.
I just had my windshield (74 TCS)reset last year (leaking). I asked about reusing my trim, was told most likely could, depended condition after removal. They reinstalled the trim, and it looks as before, but the metal trim inside the plastic is crinkled up, and looks bad.
When the weather warms, I'll follow your lead and redo mine.
thanks!
andyh
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New link to molding-
http://www.sportwing.net/chromebritemolding1wide.aspx
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New link to molding-
http://www.sportwing.net/chromebritemolding1wide.aspx (http://www.sportwing.net/chromebritemolding1wide.aspx)
Timely post Mark. I was just about ask you which one you used.
Thanks!
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It looks so nice. Thanks for the link Mark.
mike
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More info in this thread- http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1383.0 (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1383.0)
UPDATE- I believe this is what I used- https://www.sportwing.com/Dawn-Enterprises-Inc/AB10014-S-All-Brite-Molding?sort=p.price&order=ASC&limit=100 (https://www.sportwing.com/Dawn-Enterprises-Inc/AB10014-S-All-Brite-Molding?sort=p.price&order=ASC&limit=100)
1" ALL BRITE MOLDING; 14' ROLL / AB10014-S
BRAND: Dawn Enterprises Inc.
PRODUCT CODE: AB10014-S
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This is perfect timing for me.
I was just on the Banks website today looking at the price of a new surround - UGggggg. Oddly enough the corner pieces came with the car.
On my car it looks at though allot of the rubber sealant also came off with the chrome surround. Please see the pic.
Any suggestions on what material I should use build up the sealant before attaching the new chrome surround?
Cheers,
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As leaking screens are notorious on Europas, it is essential to get a good primer to stick to the fibreglass all round before the windscreen mastic is applied, otherwise it will not stick, and the dashboard will be affected as well as the carpet.
The screen on my current project leaked so badly,the pedals rusted solid, and the seat runner bolts had to be drilled out from under the car.
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I wish I could be of more help. The flexible chrome trim is holding up fine, but it is the cosmetic part of the seal. In the four years since I installed the trim I've only be in the rain once (I live in a desert) and I had a drip on my foot. I'm not sure if it came from the windshield and I haven't tried to find out because with <1.5"/month of rain and low humidity it's a low priority.
In addition to keeping rain out, the black goop needs to keep the windshield in, which helps hold the roof up. I believe in days past butyl was used as a sealant, but now urethane is used as a sealant/adhesive. I believe mine was sealed with butyl. It was sticky, gooey, and pliable, especially when the day got hot. I don't know what you have around your windshield currently, but from the pictures I had quite a bit more sealant and it looked in better shape to start with. I don't remember what specifically I used to attempt to reseal the glass. It was something labeled for windshield sealant repair.......
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I don't have much to add here. I've never had a problem with a leaking windshield (not that I remember, anyway). I would just add that when I was having my windshield installed, the first guy I called wouldn't guarantee that it would seal (!) so I called another guy. As he was installing my windshield, I mentioned my conversation with the first guy. He said, he wouldn't guarantee it wouldn't leak either! So far, it seems to be holding up pretty well. I have driven in the rain but I keep that sort of thing at a minimum.
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I'm resurrecting this old thread because I'm in the throws of preparing for a windshield replacement and I've got a few questions as it applies to my TCS.
1. Is the original style (see attached picture from r.d.) plastic chrome trim actually necessary. I see the instructions in the S2 workshop manual (I assume the TC uses a "direct glazing windshield") and the plastic chrome trim seems integral yet earlier in this thread, 3929R states that the trim is purely decoration. I would like to use the chrome trim that he used but I also want a windshield that doesn't leak (mine doesn't).
2. Does anybody have any suggestions or comments for using the alternative trim that 3929R used, which is flat on the back rather than having a part that grips the windshield?
3. Pilkington seems like THE place for a new windshield, but with all the horror stories of windshields that are the wrong size, can anybody with a TC calm my nerves with a first hand experience with a Pilkington windshield that fit properly (or a similar story for an alternate supplier)?
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Pilkington is the original manufacturer. Their "classic" range are exactly as original. Late S2 and TC/S all use the glue-in install.
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Thanks, JB. Can you tell me if the original style trim is required or can the windshield be installed successfully with out it and the alternate trim be used?
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Yes the windscreen can be mounted directly to the fiberglass flange without the original trim. I have seen 2 examples, an S2 and a TC, with simple black vinyl trim covering the gap. Sorry no pictures.
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Thanks, Swift!
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Did find a photo of the S2 with black vinyl windscreen trim:
http://www.clnw.org/wordpress/wp-content/lg-gallery/2016/2016%20ABFM/IMG_0785.JPG
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Thanks again, Swift!
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I used the method used by 3929r and I am very pleased with the results. The original “chrome” insert turned black/brown in the Florida sun and I wasn’t going to do that again. I polished the corner pieces and used pliers to adjust the corners to fit the narrower trim. i glued the corners down with urethane adhesive.
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BDA, although I am far from installing my windshield I did speak with a couple of professional installers and they all told me the same thing, use adhesive that is designed for fiberglass to glass adhesion. Both of them told me their install would not leak, no way as it was a direct glue in job (as long as the surface area was clean).
I bought RD’s trim kit with the corners. I tried to find OEM in all the places I know......not available. With a fresh paint job I was told the smaller dimension trim would not be a problem.
By the way, I have two new windshields in my garage, but I’m not willing to sell one until mine is completely installed (sorry, but I have heard these can crack during installation).
Good luck with your removal (which is a lot of work) and install.
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Richard at Banks sells a black rubber seal that replaces the plastic chrome trim that was on the TC/S
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Thanks, Pfreen, Certified, and Joe! I feel a bit better about this whole enterprise now!
I may want to come up your way, Certified! I talked to two installers down here and neither one would guarantee it wouldn't leak (the second one told me that when he was half finished!).
I guess this is a case of the more I know, the more worried I am. Nothing about the install worried me the first time, but this time I am!
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Been there...
Pilkington with all new trim and corners from Ray...measure, miter, heat gun to shape and Silkaflex.
He was able to get me the original foil inlay style from Japan, and the gasket profile is exactly the same as you have pictured.
When you do have it done, remember to support the roof from inside during install, the weight of the glass will cause a slight sag...leave it propped till cured.
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That looks great, Lou! That really argues for r.d.'s trim and doing it "vanilla" is a bit more comforting.
I know about supporting the roof. The guy who installed my current windshield did that on his own. He did a great job but I don't remember who he was! :headbanger:
Thanks for chiming in, Lou!
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Now might be a good time to say that Hagerty has been really great! The back story to this is that I have a star in the upper right area of the windshield. It might be repairable but I plan on having my windshield tinted and I've been advised that the heat gun used in applying the tinting will likely cause the fix to re-crack and get worse. They are willing to install a new windshield for me knowing this. It just occurred to me that it would be worth a call to a windshield repair outfit to see if they would worry about the heat gun and if not, then I would go with the fix and save Hagerty a lot of money. But, I just want to say, I can't say enough good things about them. I've never needed a claim on the Lotus's insurance before, but I wish I had insured with them as soon as I got my car on the road! All this and they are actually less expensive than my old insurance! If you don't have them, it might be worth your while to check into them!
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My chrome plastic surround was hideous and as others have mentioned I didn’t want to risk breaking the screen. So I fitted new tidy corners then masked it all up and sprayed it. It turned out way better than I had anticipated.
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Been there...
Pilkington with all new trim and corners from Ray...measure, miter, heat gun to shape and Silkaflex.
He was able to get me the original foil inlay style from Japan, and the gasket profile is exactly the same as you have pictured.
When you do have it done, remember to support the roof from inside during install, the weight of the glass will cause a slight sag...leave it propped till cured.
Lou, your install looks great. Very nice work. When you say Ray got you the original foil inlay from Japan, what do you mean?
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Certified...
Back in 2008, when I was amassing spare parts for my restoration, I contacted Ray to inquire about the windshield trim. At that time he had no replacement sources here in the states and the vendors in the UK had dried up.
He made me aware of the possibility of obtaining the original factory style reproductions (which had a chrome foil inlay) from his contacts in Japan.
About two months went by when Ray summoned me to visit...the trim had arrived but, the size would require all new corner pieces. He mentioned that he was able to get one of the last sets of this style and would be sourcing new vendors for the future. I guess this was a trial for the both of us, so I decided to go for it.
I went over my old receipts and here's the breakdown...
Pro source Pilkington classic tinted...$400...shipping wooden box from Ohio $150.
3 piece trim kit $180...4 corners $104 from R&D...
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This may be obvious but I'd like confirm. It occurs to me that the windshield seals enough inside the edges that the stock trim can fit on the edge of the glass after the windshield is bonded to the car. Right?
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Yes.
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Thanks!