Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Members Cars => Topic started by: Grumblebuns on Sunday,June 12, 2016, 12:51:25 PM
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The Cosworth YBB Europa – Introduction
I picked up 3631R as a soon to be abandoned project around the summer of 2006.The owner, working in the auto industry in the Detroit area, could see the economic writing on the wall and needed to get rid of all his Lotus projects. He estimated that he had more than $40K into the Europa and looking at everything that came with the car, I have no reason not to believe him. With his asking price, he lost well over half of what he put into it.
The car is a 1973 (build date 6/73) Europa Special with the following major modifications:
custom Spyder chassis and suspension
normally aspirated 2L Cosworth YBB motor with dual Weber 45 DCOE
dry sump oil system
Hewland Mk9 5 speed transaxle with Quaife LSD
front/rear Wilwood calipers with hydraulic parking brake
14” Panasport with Ford Mustang hub pattern
custom Griffin aluminum radiator (all aluminum spare radiator for a SBC included if necessary)
hydraulic clutch with internal slave cylinder
all alloy custom fuel tanks
new paint
boxes of spares and numerous items too small to mention
probably other items that have slipped my mind at the moment
Pictures of the car can be found at:
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/cosworth
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lotuseuropa/files/Frank%27s%20TC%20Special/
I will be using the forum as a build log as I progress in completing this massive project.
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
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I decided to move the YBB Europa discussion over to it's own thread.
The 21 feet of total braided oil hose needed is needed deceiving. From the outlet of the oil pump to the oil tank is around 7'. I will need three of the 7' hoses from the oil pump to the oil tank. My other issue is the location of the oil cooler, where to put it for optimum cooling. There is no spot in the engine compartment with decent airflow. Running it to the front is an option with the problem of a long run of hose and possible flow and pressure issues as noted by someone earlier. I've attached some pictures of the proposed run of the oil lines.
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I fabricated a duct for my oil cooler and vented it on the side of the license plate. At the time, I was expecting there would be a low pressure area behind the car and air would be drawn from under the car, through the cooler and out through the louvers. I found out later that the air flow is actually the opposite - in the louvers, through the cooler and up through the screens on the boot lid. Either way, my oil never gets to hot (I have a 13 row cooler). I also have an oil thermostat.
My engine has the dry sump pumps that mount where the stock oil pump is so it doesn't require quite as much hose as yours, but there is a fair amount of -10 hose running around. My pump required a very pricey 270 deg. hose end along with several 90 deg ones!. I never measured it because I had hose left over from when I was an Earl's Distributor. Between the pressure and scavenge lines, the lines to the external filter and the cooler, I wouldn't be surprised to find I had much more than 21 feet.
I'm looking forward to seeing your progress!
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Even with the backward flow of air into the engine bay from the outside through your air cooler, your oil is getting cooled. Looking at all of the options, that location is probably the only place for the cooler without adding additional ducting to the body work, type 47 style or running lines to the front of the car and installing the cooler there. The entire section of my license plate area is cut out so I'll won't have any interference issues as seen from the attached picture
As far as the lines themselves, I used a section of heater hose to do a mock run to located where the hose go for minimum bend radius. I'm suspecting that the braided hose will be very stiff have a large radius in terms of bending around obstructions. What I'll probably do is to buy one 7' section of braided hose with one AN fitting and actually run the hose from pump to tank for the actual length. Go back to the hose shop and have them cut the hose to specification and add the other fitting. Do the same thing for the other hoses.
I'm assuming that your oil cooler is between the scavenge pump outlet and your oil tank? I have two scavenge pumps so one line will go directly to the oil tank while the other line will be routed to the cooler then to the oil tank.
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I assume you're going to use the stainless steel braided rubber hose (the normal type for oil and fuel), you can make the hose yourself with common tools. i used snips to cut the hose and the ends are assembled on it with a vice and wrenches. You can get fancy vice jaw covers (very nice to have if you're making hose) to hold the ends, but aluminum and maybe duct tape works well to keep from scuffing up the ends. The fancy shops use chop saws, etc. but they really aren't necessary. Doing it yourself will make things a lot easier as you can fit the hose runs as you build rather than measuring. Keep in mind you'll not only be worried about oil lines, but also fuel, brake (or have they already been made?), oil pressure sender, etc. So you might want to tool up.
As a general rule in racing, you want to filter hot oil (so you have less pressure drop across the filter) and you want to cool filtered oil. The latter so that if you blow up your motor, you don't get trash in your cooler! We won't be blowing up motors now, will we!? But it makes for good practice. Then you want to feed the engine cooler oil.
I looked up what Dave (Bean) recommended and I had a vague recollection that I originally differed with his opinion and then another vague recollection that it actually ended up being the same when it was all finished so I thought I follow the hoses to confirm. Well, it really is a snake pit under the carbs so the hoses aren't easy to follow without crawling under the car, etc. (your pump is different so my particular set up is not as important to you) - which I'm happy to do if you still have questions, but think the rule I laid out gets to the nub of it.
With that in mind, you would filter your scavenge oil, then cool it, and then put it in the tank. If you use a thermostat, you would put that between the filter and the cooler. Your pressure pump is obviously fed from your tank.
I highly recommend Earl's hose ends - especially for the angled ends because they swivel and can be adjusted after they are assembled. That's very important if you have a hose with an angled end on both sides! Earl's probably has the largest selection of ends (e.g. hose to male BSP - useful for Brit dry sump pumps) and their quality is excellent. I'm sure you can find it in your neck of the woods but if not, JEGS, and Summit Racing carry it, I believe. Here's the catalog: https://www.holley.com/brands/earls/. There's a nice video there that tells you how to assemble the fitting to the hose. They recommend a hack saw (or cut off wheel). When I was selling it, it was a real shoestring operation so there was no expensive cut off wheel in my garage! I started with the hacksaw, but eventually migrated to snips. I found it much easier.
They list bend radiuses in the catalog but in general, your heater hose trick should be pretty accurate. On the other hand, if you make your own hoses as I recommend, you'll know exactly what you're dealing with.
A precaution - the braid is very abrasive so you want to securely mount your hose anywhere it might mess up your paint or wear through electrical or heat insulation or body work. Heat shrink tube is handy to protect particular areas. They sell stainless steel braided hose that is completely covered for this purpose, but I think that sort ruins the effect - but maybe I'm just a traditionalist! There are some new types of hose and fittings since I was involved that you might want to explore, but as I say, I'm a traditionalist and I just like the stainless steel braid with the red and blue ends.
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Wow! I think I want to have your Europa's children!!
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Was just taking another look at your pictures... where do you drive your alternator?
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I using the dry sump system drawing in the Burton Power catalog as my reference:
https://view.publitas.com/burtonpower/2016-catalogue-booklet/page/36
I'm a bit unclear on whether the Burton Power drawing matches your recommendations for the flow path of components. I have a two scavenge, one pressure oil pump similar to the drawing.
You also got me rethinking on how to get my hoses made up. I'll do some more research on the subject and maybe make up my own hoses instead.
To answer you question on the alternator drive, the crankshaft pulley drives three belts, one is for the alternator. Next time I'm under the car, I'll post pictures on the photo album.
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You said you had two scavenge stages on your pump and I glossed over that! Sorry! Mine has only one so it's a simpler situation.
So I looked back at the documentation on my old Lola T492 race car to see if it had a similar setup to yours and it did. In fact, it is plumbed just like the layout in your link - one scavenge line goes directly to the tank, the other goes to the cooler and then to the tank, and the filter is between the engine and the pressure pump which is obviously fed from the tank.
I also googled "drysump plumbing schematic" and got a lot of different schemes. Some opposite to "my" rule, and some following it. Some pumps apparently have multiple scavenge inputs and one output. You might want to take a look at them here: https://www.google.com/search?q=dry+sump+plumbing+schematic&newwindow=1&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiUx5Gu0ajNAhVB4iYKHSS-DhQQsAQIHQ&biw=1151&bih=871#imgrc=_. You might enjoy the picture of the Chevy with the outrageous snake pit of hoses!
I think the scheme you pointed to will be fine - I hope your tank has two inlets. Normally, they are designed to swirl the oil around the tank to bleed the air out of the oil like a coolant swirl pot although the tank on my Lola was a rectangularly shaped affair so that's preferred but not absolutely necessary.
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Thanks for the link. I'll do more research and then decide on my plan of action.
My tank does have two inlets. Unfortunately they are both AN12 while my pump fittings are AN10. I hope I can fit both sizes to the same hose. With a remote filter, oil cooler, breather tank and thermostat, there is going to be a tangle hoses everywhere, definitely more than the 21' I first thought.
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
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I didn't see a picture of your pump, but normally, they are made with either BSP (if it's English) or US straight thread ports but they might have NPT. There are fittings you can get from any size you're likely to have in your pump to -12 'nipple'. On the other side, if the fittings in your tank are not welded in, you will able to replace them with -10 ones. For a street application, and even a racing one, -10 is plenty big enough. Back in the dark ages when I was racing the Formula Atlantic guys (running BDAs) mostly used -12, but -10 was not unheard of. It really depends on your budget and use. If you're looking for the n-th degree of performance, you'd want -12, but those hose ends get a lot more expensive the bigger they get! As a data point, I use -10 on my BDA.
Vinyl hose like you can get at Lowes is fine for your breathers. I bought a little plastic catch can from Summit or somewhere for my breathers. You can also get filtered vents to use instead.
You will be buying a lot of hose, but the ends is where a lot of your money will go! If you want to go the -10 route and your fittings are welded to your tank, it will very likely make economic sense to have them cut off and -10 fittings welded on. I suspect that they screw in, though.
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I think I screwed up when I ordered my tank. I wrongly assumed that the fittings on my pump were AN12 (they're AN10) so ordered a tank with AN12 fittings and unfortunately, they are welded in. If the hoses are sized for a specific AN fitting then I will have to buy three AN12 to AN10 reducers for the tank if there is such a thing.
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It's been a while and I think there are adapters, but I really think you should investigate how much it will take to cut those off and weld new ones on. Otherwise, you'll end up with something kind of 'clunky'. I think this is the adaptor you'd need (https://www.holley.com/products/plumbing_an_fittings_and_hose/adapters/an_to_an_adapters/parts/989410ERL). The 'usual' hose most people use is the Earl's Perform-O-Flex If you want to save money, Earl's has some more economical alternatives that you can explore. Take a look at the catalog to see how you might want to go.
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I think I screwed up when I ordered my tank. I wrongly assumed that the fittings on my pump were AN12 (they're AN10) so ordered a tank with AN12 fittings and unfortunately, they are welded in. If the hoses are sized for a specific AN fitting then I will have to buy three AN12 to AN10 reducers for the tank if there is such a thing.
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Joji, If you want, bring the tank by my shop and I will weld in new AN10 fittings.
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Joe, I'll get ahold of you next week. I may go that route.
Joji
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It's been a while since I updated my progress on 3631R. I started plumbing the dry sump oil system last Summer and it took all of Summer and part of Fall to mostly complete the pressure portion of the system. The dry sump system consists of a Titan Series 2 three stage pump, Peterson two gallon oil tank, block off adapter for stock oil filter, and a Setrab remote filter unit.
I shot myself in the foot right off the bat by ordering an oil tank with -12 AN male fittings thinking I had -12 fittings on the oil pump, not the -10 fittings it has. Making the decision on how to go from a -10 fitting and hose to a -12 fitting took most of the time. Rather than cutting out and re-welding -10 fittings to the oil tank or using adapters, I decided to try to locate fittings that used -10 hose but had -12 fittings. It was harder than you would think. I only found a couple of companies that offered the required fittings.
With fittings located, time to order the hardware, then the second problem cropped up. These particular fittings only come in the crimp style.Once crimped, the clocking of the ends were locked, the hose ends cannot swivel. Not a problem if one end is straight but if both ends are angled, the clocking of the ends have to be specified before hand, almost impossible to convey to the vender for pre-assembled hose and fittings. To get around this issue, I ordered the hose unassembled and found a local shop that had dies capable of crimping the fittings. The clocking came out very close but not perfect. There is a minor twist on a couple of the hoses but is acceptable. The quality of the local crimping was also not as good as the factory crimps, see the oil pump photos. Overall. I estimate there is almost 21 feet of oil hose in the engine bay.
The oil tank is vented to a small catch can. At this time I haven't decided on the method on the final destination of the oil vapors, go green and run the vapors to the inlet of the carbs or be a pig polluter and just add a small K&N filter to the catch can and go to atmosphere. I'll make my final decision when I get closer to car completion. One thing I noticed with the YBB motor is that I don't see any type of PCV system. I'm thinking if drilling and fitting a vent hose to the oil filler cap and run that to the carb inlet.
Except for the catch can vent decision, the oil line plumbing is pretty much done. My next system to tackle is wiring. I have the original wiring that came with the car. As is typical with a car that has gone through multiple owners, there are cuts and splices of dubious quality so I've decided to go with a harness from scratch.
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Wow Joji, that looks like serious business. Beautiful work.
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Good job, Joji! I'm looking forward to future updates!
Have you given any thought to whether you will change your timing belt? I figure it's probably been a while since the PO installed that belt and I assume that belt life is not only measured in miles but also years. I ask because I have a similar situation. I had my belt changed when I put the car on the road back in '99. Now it's been about seventeen years but no more than 15,000 miles. I'm wondering if I should change my belt while my car's laid up.
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Good point on the timing belt. It has to be at least 15 years old. I'll put down as another item to order from Burton Power along with a billet aluminum cam cover cap for the vent path.
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Only loosely related but I can add a comment on the cam belt life. When I wrote about the Elise last year one of the reasons for the work was to change the cam belt which happened to be a similar age to what you're discussing. The car hadn't done a great mileage and had spent a couple or so years just sitting around but it was 16 years old, so comparable to yours.
The old belt was unmarked, no cracking even when twisted or flexed hard back and I'm sure if looked at in isolation we'd all say it was good for another few years. But when I compared it with the new one it was clear there had been some deterioration and the rubber was very slightly harder/less flexible than the new belt. I think you could infer that the old belt is more likely to develop cracks if worked hard, and let's face it, it's well past the normal recommended change-by date.
Brian
ps - Joji, how do you get an alternator in that engine bay ? Is it buried in the depths of the Y frame ?
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This looks impressive. Will it be a track car?
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In regards to the timing belt, I hope that it is the stock length. Imagine trying to find a belt for a car/engine never imported to the US at a local parts place.
This car will probably be a mostly track car. It all depends on the overall ground clearance of the sump. I believe this is the reason that the PO went with a dry sump system. I'll be lucky if I end up with four inches of ground clearance when everything is done.
The alternator is located low at the bottom of the engine block just above the sump. I 've added some additional photos of the underside. One observation that is a bit disconcerting is the amount of corrosion on the rear suspension bits. This year has been wetter than normal but that shouldn't have been enough to cause the observed corrosion, not in normally dry Southern California and in a dry garage. The corrosion almost looks like the result of mouse pee but with two cats in the house, I don't know.
Looking at the photos, you can see some of the details the PO added. Besides the rear discs, 14" wheels, rear sway bar, you can see the hydraulic line for the internal hydraulic clutch, the toothed spokes for the electronic speedo and a spot caliper for a hydraulic parking brake. I will probably ditch the electronic speedo and sensor and use a GPS style speedo.
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There are different kind of cog belts, but many are standardized. I've been in a chat with a guy from https://www.vbeltguys.com. They can try to cross reference but if you give them the length, tooth pitch, and width, they sound like they can find a replacement. He expected a replacement for my BDA would probably be around $10 but I have to do some measurements to get the real price.
Update: If you have an engine manual, the belt spec will probably be in the specifications section. I found it in my BDA manual. I also wouldn't be surprised if you could get one from the local Ford parts counter - but it might take a while. I think a place like vbeltguys.com would be the best bet.
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I'll 2nd v-belt guys. A belt for my mowing deck was going to be over $120. from the mfg. Less than $15. from them
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Gee, Andy. I'd feel a little better if your experience was with a less pedestrian vehicle! :)
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yeah, just a cofirmation on variety, and price point. fwiw, i did get a tcs water pump belt from them since I was ordering..... but that is a standard size. :beerchug:
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They seem like a good supplier (though, certainly not the only one) of belts, pulleys, etc. I'm going to price a belt for my engine tomorrow now that I know the right specs (they couldn't cross reference the number I had). Amazon sells cog belts too, but it's hard to search for the size you need.
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You're running engines that cost any where from $15K to $30K to replace, and you're trying to find the cheapest timing belt? I might spend a great deal of time trying to find the best, strongest or longest lasting belt -- and I'd change it twice as often as recommended -- but cheapest?
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I'm certainly not doing it to save money. My understanding is that engine timing belts are the same spec as industrial belts. The industrial belts are fiberglass reinforced neoprene. Do you have any information that there is a difference? In the meantime, I'll do my own research.
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I'm certainly not doing it to save money. My understanding is that engine timing belts are the same spec as industrial belts. The industrial belts are fiberglass reinforced neoprene. Do you have any information that there is a difference? In the meantime, I'll do my own research.
I don't think you're far off there BDA, belts are specified by car manufacturers but made by those companies who's livelihood it is. So for example it's more than likely that Audi will turn up on Contitech's doorstep and say "we want a belt for a new engine, about this size, wotcha got ?". Being serious for a moment, if you think about it the timing belt on your average car doesn't get that hard a life, it's turning cams against springs and possibly a waterpump but no great load ?
For those in Europe and the UK, the Contitech catalogue is worth downloading. They make hundreds of belts and supply many European manufacturers, something I only found out AFTER I'd replaced the drive belt on the Cayman with a £70 Porsche item which had been produced by Contitech and sold (by them) for around 1/3rd the price. ::)
Brian
ps - Andy, do you have a reference for the TCS water pump belt ? I bought one recently which is supposedly the right fitment but held against a genuine one I have, it's a bit smaller. I want to replace mine and looking at the genuine one I think I've had it on the shelf for too long.
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Brian,
I do have the unsued belt at home, was from a known mfg of auto belts. Won't be able to access the info for a couple months though as am traveling.
Wasn't trying to start anything about prices/suppliers/quality. When I needed the belt for my mowing deck, a machinist at work suggested the site to me. It *may* not even have been the afore mentioned site, but had a great variety.
BTW- Great looking engine Grumblebuns, will be a great ride!
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Try these guys http://stores.ebay.co.uk/D-S-MOTORSPORT-PERFORMANCE-PARTS?_trksid=p2047675.l2563 Ebay UK is your friend. I've bought quite a few parts from England.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COSWORTH-YB-COMPETITION-CAM-BELT-TENSIONER-SIERRA-2WD-4WD-ESCORT-/290771045876?hash=item43b34e0df4
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Thanks, I'll keep these guys in mind when I get closer to actually working on the motor.
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Just an update about timing belts. I didn't end up talking to anybody about any differences between industrial and automotive belts so I can't unequivocally say they are the same, but in the end, I decided to just get my belt from Dave Bean. Belt companies sell to distributors. Even though the specs of my belt are spelled out in the workshop manual for the Escort RS1600 workshop manual (where the BDA came from), I didn't know if there were other variables that have crept into gilmer/cog belt technology that might bite me so (eg. I believe there are more choices in tooth profile than there were fifty years ago). The one company I called said they sell automotive belts to local car parts suppliers but explaining what a BDA is to a local parts guy didn't appeal to me.
Joji, you might give Dave Bean a call. He might have a belt for you on the shelf or be able to get one for you. On the other hand, if you're getting stuff from Burton Power all ready, it make sense to get one from them, too.
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I guess you're in the same boat with timing belts with your BDA as I am with my engine, not widely known in the US. In your case at least DBE supports or use to support the BD engine series for parts but over the years I suppose they've pulled back considerably on what they have on their catalog.
Have you checked out Cosworth USA?
http://www.nopi.com/dsp_makesv.php?vv=3442
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It's hard for me to tell what's going on at 'Bean. They haven't updated their website since it was published and it had been a long time since I've ordered from them. I asked about a catalog but they hadn't updated their paper catalog (not surprising) and I already had the ones that applied to me (BTW - I advise getting his catalog for the technical information, if for nothing else). I guess that suggests that he stocks most of what is in the catalogs. He used to be a very valuable source of difficult to find parts as well as useful upgrades (e.g. cassette water pump for TC motors). I assume he still is. I just wish he had a wibsite that was kept up to date! I do know he supplied some parts for Jay Leno's Elan. It was a really interesting build checking out the videos (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=leno+elan&page=&utm_source=opensearch).
After I ordered the cam belt, I realized I should order a water pump belt also. I couldn't get the number off that belt so I had to give him the diameter of the water pump pulley. Presumably they are both on their way to me as we speak. I don't know if Bean has a belt for your YBB but, as I say, it might be worth a phone call. On the other hand, it would probably be worth a phone call to Cosworth USA just to call them! :)
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With the arrival of the final delivery of my wiring system, it's now time to turn to wiring. The system that I chose probably won't appeal to most of you but it is pretty interesting from a technical point of view.
The wiring system that I'm using is from Infinitybox Intelligent Wiring. Not being an EE type, I can only explain the workings in laymans terms as I undertand it. I ordered the Infinitybox 20 circuit wiring harness kit. Picture 1 shows the kit layed out with the components in their approximate future position in the Europa. The heart of the Infinitybox system are the three modular solid state microcontrollers, the Mastercell and two Powercells.
The center module is the Mastercell, the "gatekeeper or brains" of the system (Picure 2). Most if not all of standard switching functions of the car such as ignition, headlights, fans are wired into the Mastercell by a dedicated colored wire in the harness connector plugged into the Mastercell. The signal from this dedicated input will then be directed by the Mastercell to the front or rear Powercell by the Can Bus cable.
The two end modules are the Powercells (Picture 3/4). Each Powercell can handle up to ten circuits with a maximum of 25 amps per circuit. The wiring from the loads are plugged into the Powercell. As with the Mastercell, each load in the Powercell has a specific node or address in the Powercell. Each wire in the Powercell harness is dedicated to a specific load. When the Powercell receives the signal from the Mastercell, a built in microprocessor switches on power to the required load.
Each Powercell is provided battery power by two leads per Powercell from a four circuit fuse box (Picture 5). A large battery cable connects the fuse box to the battery. Individual circuit protection in the Powercell is provided by a built in fuse box in each Powercell. For loads greater than 25 amps, the output from the Powercell such as the starter motor and probably the power windows in the Europa, is sent to a separate relay.
The biggest downside for most people looking at wiring systems is obviously the cost of the Infinitybox system. For me the simplicity of the system was the major appeal. It took me four years of mulling it over before I pulled the trigger and placed my order. We'll see if the results are worth it. I'll post updates of my progress over the next few months.
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That's very interesting, Joji! At first, my eyes glazed over a bit, but I think I understand the idea. Compared to the original wiring, it seems overly complicated, but at the same time, it also seems like a neat way to simplify everything as, after it's programmed, problems should be easy to isolate.
When I built my car, I considered rewiring it but 1) I chickened out and 2) I had a pretty pristine wiring loom so it seemed silly to throw that away. Of course I've added a bunch of stuff that has muddied up the electrics since then.
This seems like a great way start from scratch. Please do keep us up to date on your progress!
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Yeah, very interested in seeing how this all comes together. I am intrigued.
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Yes, this will be a bold new experiment. I have most of the front and rear components installed so hooking up the front and rear Powercells should go fairly quickly. The long delay will be in the cabin. I'm still working in the dash and instruments.
For the wiring connections I thought about staying period and use bullet connectors but came to my senses and am considering using the more modern offerings from Delphi Weather Pack.
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Anything but those bullet connectors!!!