Lotus Europa TC Special Seats

[andy harwood]

Dang Allan -
You really like a challenge. Or pain.
Nice collection!

[4129R]

I think the water comes in around the doors, the well fills up where the seats are, and depending on the angle the car is parked at for long term abandonment, either the seats or the foot pedal rust beyond repair.

In my case, both, and it took a very long time to drill both seats out.

I would still like 2 please, the wider ones for the TCS.

Alex in Norfolk.

[Gearbox]

Alex, you nailed it.  The seats didn't look bad at all when I got the car, but it took me a week to get the seats out with all the rust I found.  I ended up having to cut one of the fiberglass bungs out of the floor to get the last one to release (why is it always the last bolt you need to take out that gives you the most trouble?)  The tracks were still usable, but the pedal assembly was frozen solid. 3 Days in muriatic acid loosened up the pedal assembly and was finally able to remove all traces of rust and inject grease in the shaftways.  But the seats were toast. 

[4129R]

My best seat looked like your last photo. My worst seat was about half its original weight after the rusted bits fell off.

It seems POs just leave them in their garden and let them rot away. Very sad.

So far, apart from seats, door hinges, pedal boxes, petrol tanks tops, and the chassis, I haven't seen rust cause unrepairable damage, except to the bracket that holds the clutch cable to the side of the tunnel.

Most of the parts that I take off clean up nicely with a wire brush in an electric drill or a bench rotary wire brush.

Alex in Norfolk. 

[Chuck Nukem]

Alan I am seriously impressed by the undertakings on your site! You are an active man!!

I am not quite ready for a speedo gear on my TCS restoration, but I suspect I will need one in the future...

[BDA]

So far, apart from seats, door hinges, pedal boxes, petrol tanks tops, and the chassis, I haven't seen rust cause unrepairable damage, except to the bracket that holds the clutch cable to the side of the tunnel.

That's just about all the steel on the car! 

[4129R]

I seem to find a lot of steel that needs surface rust removing, and cleaning or painting.

Rear drums and back plates, rear suspension arms, brake lines, numerous brackets, seat belt brackets from rear suspension, clutch cable plate, engine mounting triangles, dashboard end plates, front suspension arms, front hubs, front undertray, long radiator tubes, radiator, heater blower bracket, heater matrix, seat runners, sump, gear change tubes, radiator fan and mounting bracket, disc backplates, and hand brake reaction lever.

I have just seen my collection of empty primer and gloss black paint aerosol cans.

 

[Gearbox]

I have been using muriatic acid for decades.  My current set up is a tupperware bin, about 4 feet wide, 2 feet deep and 1.5 feet high.  Found this at a local Home Depot.  You can use smaller tupperware bins, but I needed to fit the trailing arms and sway bar.  Filled two gallons of muriatic acid that costs about 8 bucks a gallon.  You can use the acid straight or dilute it with water and it works about the same.  So if the part isn't completely covered by the acid, just add water.  Normally I soak the parts over night.  I have another tub right next to it with water and baking soda to neutralize the acid when done.  The parts come out completely rust free and it leaves the good metal alone.  If you don't dry the part, it will flash rust, but a wire steel wheel on you grinding machine will take it off in seconds.  Or you can heat the part with a propane torch.  I spray a Eastwood product called "Rust Encapsulator" on every part, including engine blocks.  I assume the product is much like POR15 as it works the same, but I like the handy spray cans better.  The acid pretty much lasts forever, even years, but to get rid of it, just pour a bag of baking soda in and it becomes harmless.  This only for steel, do not put anything aluminum as it will completely dissolve it.  If you haven't tried it yet, buy a gallon and test it out.  It is pretty amazing.

[BDA]

Nicely done, Gearbox! That's a lot easier than sandblasting - which is what I did!

[Gearbox]

Sandblasting is fine and for some parts, like aluminum, and the Europa frame, it's the only way to go.  But it is just way too time consuming.  But parts like the trailing arms or even steel wheels where you have inaccessible areas, Muriatic acid is perfect.  I sandblasted my Elan wheels, POR15 them, primed and painted, it after a bit, rust will start showing up around the center section and rim where the sand couldn't get to.  I found that those round oil catch pans from Pep Boys were a perfect fit for the wheels.  Drop in for a day, turn them around and wait another day, and they come out perfectly rust free.  POR15 them and paint, and they will never rust again.  So far 6 years and counting. 

[BDA]

I like the blasted finish for painting you get with sandblasting, but it's really messy, expensive (compared to your method), and time consuming. Of course a blasting cabinet for smallish parts is a great deal, but I didn't have one of those. No, I think you have the right solution! 

[Grumblebuns]

Good info Allan. I've been using commercial rust removal/converter products like Evaporust and home brewed concoctions like molasses and water. Both work well but Evaporust is expensive, like $20/gallon and molasses and water is extremely slow. It took around a month of soaking a master cylinder to get the corrosion removed, changing out the solution once.

I believe all of the commercial rust removal products use some type of weak acid, mostly phosphoric acid. That's why Coke is used by some people. Another method I've come across is to use dilute vinegar (acetic acid)and salt. There are too many disadvantages to using my previous choices. Evaporust is too expensive and molasses and water is too slow.  I think  I'll give your method a try next time I need to remove some rust on a part.

Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca     

[Gearbox]

Joji, What do you think Evaporust is?  It is just extremely watered down Muriatic acid.  Once you get a gallon of the Muriatic acid from any good hardware store, you will know right away.  The smell is the same, but when you place a rusted part in Evaporust, nothing happens, place it in the Muriatic acid, and it starts fizzing right away.  Again, steel, brass, cooper, is all ok, it won't attack anything but the rust on the steel and will do nothing on the brass, cooper, or clean steel.  But never put in aluminum, I learned the hard way.  Way back when, when I first started to use this stuff, I inadvertently used an aluminum pan to pour the acid into.  Not only did it react, it started to smoke and caught on fire lol.  Luckily I always have a bucket of water and baking soda handy, but it was a real eye opener.  So definitely do this outside and prepare the water baking soda solution first.  About an ounce of baking soda for a standard mop bucket, doesn't take much. Also a nice pair of chemical proof gloves comes in handy, HF has them for cheap.  Good luck, Allan   

[jbcollier]

Muriatic acid will dissolve metals but it takes a while.  That's why they sell it in plastic containers.

Please be careful and use chemical lab handling methods when dealing with strong acids.

- ventilation is VERY important (for you, not the process)

- always pour acid into water, not the other way around

- wear protective gear, especially eye protection

- have an eyewash station to hand

[Grumblebuns]

Joji, What do you think Evaporust is?  It is just extremely watered down Muriatic acid.  Once you get a gallon of the Muriatic acid from any good hardware store, you will know right away.  The smell is the same, but when you place a rusted part in Evaporust, nothing happens, place it in the Muriatic acid, and it starts fizzing right away.  Again, steel, brass, cooper, is all ok, it won't attack anything but the rust on the steel and will do nothing on the brass, cooper, or clean steel.  But never put in aluminum, I learned the hard way.  Way back when, when I first started to use this stuff, I inadvertently used an aluminum pan to pour the acid into.  Not only did it react, it started to smoke and caught on fire lol.  Luckily I always have a bucket of water and baking soda handy, but it was a real eye opener.  So definitely do this outside and prepare the water baking soda solution first.  About an ounce of baking soda for a standard mop bucket, doesn't take much. Also a nice pair of chemical proof gloves comes in handy, HF has them for cheap.  Good luck, Allan   

I knew Evaporust had a weak acid as an active ingredient and I must say that it works very well though slowly. I didn't want to deal with the hazards of commercial acids so I decided to experiment with molasses. Molasses works OK, but too slowly for my time line. Muriatic acid is used in pool cleaning so is readily available. I remember using it to remove seized piston remains from Nikasil cylinder liners during my 2 stroke racing days. Amazing stuff.

Any idea what percent solution you are using or how many parts muriatic acid you are mixing with water or are you using it straight?