Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: jjbunn on Thursday,November 21, 2013, 06:06:12 PM
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Car 0701R arrived here today. It's in a shabby condition, but that was expected. I have a few questions I'm hoping the experts here can help with. But first, here is an overall view:
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3682/10986112954_8a6a67cb04_b.jpg)
It's a 1970, last registered in California in 1980. It was parked after a parking lot mishap which damaged both the rear driver's side bodywork, and a control arm (?).
First off: what is going on with the windscreen? I'm not used to windscreens that aren't secured using a rubber seal and locking strip.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3734/10985952315_15ce70058a_b.jpg)
Secondly, this wooden dash looks a discard from a school's woodwork class. Isn't there supposed to be a binacle for the speedo and tach?
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3827/10986047426_02d61636db_b.jpg)
Thirdly, there is a vintage fire extinguisher that looks like it would more at home in a Model T. But what about this upholstery, which is some sort of corduroy. Not original, I suppose?
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3673/10986158593_d4ab1724b0_b.jpg)
On to more serious matters: there is some oil weaping around this driveshaft - a bad sign? (On the plus side, the shocks look quite spiffy.)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5523/10986121994_cb9796e046_b.jpg)
Finally (for now), here is some of the bodywork damage to the driver's side. I'm a little shocked at the thickness of what appears to be bondo on the fibreglass. What would be the correct approach to rebuild this area?
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2846/10985948475_ab0842bf0b_b.jpg)
Thanks for reading this far! Any advice/comments are most welcome :beerchug:
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jjbunn; Well Sir, the car may be in fair condition, albeit, a tad weathered/worn.
1. windshield; the p/o pulled the plastic chromie seal from around it, maybe in an attempt to reseal it. This issue is actually being discussed now on the forum.
2. wood dash; seems to have been the "art of the day" way back when. See if you can take that off, check to see it the original dash is there, work from that.
3. corduroy interior; same "art of the day". Easy fix. That fire extinguisher is a classic. If nothing else-save that sucker Man!!
4. Rear axle leak; yep, axle seal shot. Easy fix. If you haven't looked @ the section that shares all the info-tech section-go
there for tons of advice, fix-it how too's, etc. Welcome to the forum & best of luck with that baby. Rick
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First off: what is going on with the windscreen? I'm not used to windscreens that aren't secured using a rubber seal and locking strip.
There have been a couple of variations on fixing the windscreen over the years. They have used a conventional rubber strip with chrome filler to lock it into place and also a bonded screen with a (expensive) chrome surround strip. The latter also needs 4 aluminium corner pieces to complete the deal. IIRC you can still get these, but they are expensive and that's why some folks move towards bonding the screen in place as for modern cars, and then finishing with 1" (or whatever) wide stick-on chrome strip. I've attached a photo showing both types of seal so you can see the differences.
Secondly, this wooden dash looks a discard from a school's woodwork class. Isn't there supposed to be a binacle for the speedo and tach?
Yep, looks like someone's attempt to improve the interior, and the same goes for the seat and door trim. The correct dash should be as you say. Again you can get new ones and some folks make up their own, I think there are templates available and if not I have my old dash on the workshop wall so can easily make one if you're stuck. If you're lucky you might find that the corduroy is just laid over the original vinyl and pulled tight, which means you'll have templates should you need to re-trim.
On to more serious matters: there is some oil weaping around this driveshaft - a bad sign? (On the plus side, the shocks look quite spiffy.)
Personally I don't take that as a sign of impending doom, the most likely cause is the oil seal has failed. I had to replace mine last year, cheap seals and easily available. I didn't even bother undoing the large nut (or whatever it's called), I just disconnected the driveshaft, prised out the old seal and inserted a new one. It's still working 18months later. The original seal on my 352 gearbox was marked as 54x36x11 (OD, ID, Width) but the most common (read cheap ;) ) one over here is 54x36x10 which fits & seals perfectly.
Finally (for now), here is some of the bodywork damage to the driver's side. I'm a little shocked at the thickness of what appears to be bondo on the fibreglass. What would be the correct approach to rebuild this area?
Yep, too much filler there and really it should be just plain fibre glass. Maybe the door is misaligned and it's an attempt to straighten things up, or perhaps the fibreglass was split and the filler used to stick everything back together, I can't tell. The only way you'll know is to strip off the paint & filler and then see what you've got. I can't see it being a big problem, just time and patience, that's all.
Brian
ps - not a bad project, it might look daunting at the moment but really it's a decent start. The chassis looks excellent and it looks like all the hard-to-find bits are present & correct, the ashtray, switches, side windows, etc.
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You didn't mention the non factory sunroof that doesn't belong there. There.......I wrote it.
The interior can be made to look correct, that's polite write for this is wrong interior material.
As to address your gauges, if you have a non original, find the correct one (not a big deal).
You are very lucky. Hollywood Gauges is in your neck of the woods. They do excellent work.
Now on to the good stuff. "Its a Bahama Yellow Europa" Once you strip it out and do a body lift all will be fine.
Just time and money.
The fire fighting equipment isn't to old as it has a gauge and some knucklehead painted it gold. They should be checked a least once a year by a professional.
If you are bummed out about all the work then sell it, cut your loses and find another that needs less. They seem to be coming out of the woodwork lately.
I can't count the times I have been through this same thing.
Your car doesn't look bad as long as it has good bones. There is a fellow on Ebay that sells body panels here in the States if need be.
mike
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Thanks Rick, Brian and Mike - very useful input. Not bummed at all about the work - in fact that's the appeal of this car to me :pirate:
The corduroy doesn't have the original vinyl underneath, so it looks like I'll need to make my own - I can use the corduroy pieces as templates :P
I'll leave the windscreen alone for the moment.
Looking closer at the dash, it actually has text stamped into the wood under some of the switches/lights e.g. "HAZARD", rather than applied labels. That must have taken some effort. It puzzles me that the glovebox aperture is very nicely cut, whereas the radio aperture looks like it was hacked out using an axe.
Brian - if you are able to make me a template dash from your old one, that would be wonderful. Or, perhaps you'd like to sell it?!
One puzzlement: I don't seem to have an ignition switch. I'm not quite sure where it is supposed to be - just to the right of the radio? In that position there is a hole with a tab sticking out - I'll have to take a closer look after removing the dash.
Question: I know that the engine hasn't been run since the early 80s. I'll drain the oil and the coolant, and the gas (although I expect it's long since evaporated). Is there any particular things I should be looking for with an engine that's been dormant this long (it does turn over by hand)? Should I remove the head for inspection?
Thanks!
Julian
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Julian,
I believe there are vinyl kits for the interior, better buy new foam if they carry the injected seat buns and the like . Check with RD Enterprises, maybe Dave Bean maybe. Don't forget door cards and headliner. I'm sure Banks in the U.K will have it, shipping isn't that bad. As to the dash, there is a guy/company that makes new ones in various woods, I prefer the original factory wood, on Ebay.
I would take out the fuel tank and get it boiled sealed. I do my own. If the tank is toast then a new one from Steve Veris or the chap in the U.K.
As for the engine, I still like Marvel Mystery Oil for a good soaking.
I'm excited and it ain't even my car............
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Julian,
I believe there are vinyl kits for the interior, better buy new foam if they carry the injected seat buns and the like . Check with RD Enterprises, maybe Dave Bean maybe. Don't forget door cards and headliner. I'm sure Banks in the U.K will have it, shipping isn't that bad. As to the dash, there is a guy/company that makes new ones in various woods, I prefer the original factory wood, on Ebay.
I would take out the fuel tank and get it boiled sealed. I do my own. If the tank is toast then a new one from Steve Veris or the chap in the U.K.
As for the engine, I still like Marvel Mystery Oil for a good soaking.
I'm excited and it ain't even my car............
I've asked RD for a quote on a new dash cover / crash pad - mine is toast (it's in about 4 pieces in the front trunk). I may try making a good dash out of the one I have by cutting a hole for the binacle (I see RD have new ones), and veneering the whole thing. I did something similar on a TR6 and it came out very nicely.
Thanks for the tip about Dave Bean ... I'll search for his Web site?
Marvel Mystery Oil - OK! I'll pick some of that up.
Exciting indeed :I-agree:
Julian
Do you have information on how you "boil seal" the gas tank?
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Hi Julian
Ignition switch; I think it was on the dashboard on early cars, mine is a TC and it's on the steering column. If you haven't already found it, try this page
http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/index.htm (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/index.htm)
and download a copy of the owners manual for the S2, which will help you to find your way around the dashboard. (or rather how it was originally :) ) That website is one of the most complete sources of info for our cars and well worth bookmarking.
Dashboard - yes, I'll pull it down and see about how I can template it. Ideally in electronic format so it's around for future reference for others, I'll have to think how best to tackle the job.
Brian
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Check out this car out in Lancaster. I did a post on it. It could be a great car to combine with yours and wind up with one working car. Believe me, you can spend $4,000 in a nanosecond getting these cars worked on.
Good luck!
Pen Pendleton
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/ant/cto/4199891586.html
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Check out this car out in Lancaster. I did a post on it. It could be a great car to combine with yours and wind up with one working car. Believe me, you can spend $4,000 in a nanosecond getting these cars worked on.
Good luck!
Pen Pendleton
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/ant/cto/4199891586.html
Hi Pen,
Yes, thanks, I saw that - looks interesting. My car is quite complete, as far as I can tell so far - so I don't think I need a second (one is about all I can handle!).
Julian
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Some good progress today: I put up a 10x20ft canopy in the back yard, to protect the Lotus. This was quite a palaver as I had to do some tree trimming before the canopy would fit.
Then I pushed the Lotus into position under the canopy - this is easier said than it was done, as both rear tires lost air almost as quickly as I could pump them up, so I was pushing, adjusting the steering, turning the compressor on and off for each tire in turn, in a series that lasted about 1/2 hour before I got it where I wanted it.
At that point I wanted to put the car on jackstands. I researched this a bit on the forums etc., so felt I was well prepared. I've never dealt with such a difficult car to jack up and set on stands! The back was easy to get up, jacking on the inverted V of the gearbox mount, but placing the jackstands on each side of the frame was very ticklish as the frame is far from horizontal at the locations I wanted (just aft of the drive shafts). After some messing around, I got the rear stands settled. Then the fun started at the front. My low profile racing jack wouldn't fit under the nose, and in any case I was terrified of jacking on any fibreglass panels in that direction. I spent a long time pondering the problem from all angles. In the end, I found I could insert the jack from just behind the front wheel, and jack on a point just inboard of the lower wishbone pivot. After much more fiddling around (and a few choice expletives), I got the two front jackstands in position. The whole jacking process took a couple of hours, and I was jacked off by the end of it.
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2857/11019596505_55fa19d2fa_b.jpg)
The PO has helpfully indicated that the right hand driveshaft "needs pin" - there is a bit of bent wire in it at the moment. Is this an easy pin to source, I wonder. I don't like the loose fitting bar that appears to be supporting the gear shift mechanism - is that normal?
The coolant system is in a sorry state - I'm going to have to replace all the hoses, and I'd better take the water pump off for inspection while I'm at it, as there is evidence of corrosion around the hose ends - goodness knows what it looks like inside. The coolant from 1982 has long gone - it's a shame the system wasn't drained then.
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Julian,
Go to Costco and buy four or five gallons of white vinegar, the stuff is cheap. Drain whats left in the engine and cooling tubes going to the radiator.
Fill the cooling system with the white vinegar. Let it set for a couple of days. Drain and do it again. Once drained it can just be pour into dirt. Hell, if you can eat it, it can't hurt dirt. Been doing this for years. Let's hope your cooling tubes are still good.
mike
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Julian, The shift rod guide is "just like mine"; shot. The shift lever has little effect on the tranny shifting, just wore out. When you change that axle seal, do both sides, as they are likely the same age/milage. OK, I'll bite; what's a palaver?? Same as a
pita?? Don't get discouraged with your lotus Man' it is a great project & will be a cool ride when done. I'll probably sell my Europa, too many projects in line. Good luck. Rick
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Julian,
Go to Costco and buy four or five gallons of white vinegar, the stuff is cheap. Drain whats left in the engine and cooling tubes going to the radiator.
Fill the cooling system with the white vinegar. Let it set for a couple of days. Drain and do it again. Once drained it can just be pour into dirt. Hell, if you can eat it, it can't hurt dirt. Been doing this for years. Let's hope your cooling tubes are still good.
mike
Hi Mike,
I took the water pump off ... not pretty:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Hfg3078EHwY/UpJRQbd9c7I/AAAAAAABHZE/ZsJ_O7YDHH4/w805-h604-no/20131124_111747.jpg)
and ...
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-o_BC9LvY3GE/UpJQ_u3o_uI/AAAAAAABHY4/WEA9W0kE1mU/w805-h604-no/20131124_111728.jpg)
I'm not sure if the water pump is worth trying to salvage. There are new ones available from various sources, but I read a rumour that nobody in fact has any in stock. E.g. Amazon has "Cardone Select 55-83158 New Water Pump", with estimated delivery in more than 5 weeks. I ordered one for the hell of it.
Another victim of the decades old fluid is the swirl pot - it's full of rust, and almost certainly trash.
On the other hand, the pipe that carries coolant from the engine through the tunnel is still full of coolant ... Should I give that system (pipe - radiator - return pipe to engine compartment) the vinegar treatment, or just flush with clean water?
Thanks!
Julian
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Julian, The shift rod guide is "just like mine"; shot. The shift lever has little effect on the tranny shifting, just wore out. When you change that axle seal, do both sides, as they are likely the same age/milage. OK, I'll bite; what's a palaver?? Same as a
pita?? Don't get discouraged with your lotus Man' it is a great project & will be a cool ride when done. I'll probably sell my Europa, too many projects in line. Good luck. Rick
Hi Rick,
Is the shift rod guide meant to reduce slop in the linkage? What's it for?
No, I wont get discouraged - it's no worse than I expected ;D
A "palaver" is a faff, or a major bother :)
Julian
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I bought a cheap endoscope so I could check the state of the inside of the gas tank without removing it. The device is basically a webcam at the end of a long flexible tube, with LED lights, small enough (less than 1cm diameter) that it can fit through small holes. It's a little difficult to get crisp images with the device, but much better than nothing. Here are some shots:
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5498/11259103094_5cfbacf540_z.jpg)
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2857/11259061665_6955c17349_z.jpg)
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Question: I know that the engine hasn't been run since the early 80s. I'll drain the oil and the coolant, and the gas (although I expect it's long since evaporated). Is there any particular things I should be looking for with an engine that's been dormant this long (it does turn over by hand)? Should I remove the head for inspection?
I wouldn't remove the head unless there is a overriding reason. You take a chance of loosening the liner seals and having a coolant leak into the sump. If the motor turns over by hand, I would just leave it and do an assessment after the motor is started.
As Cal44 (Mike) suggested, de-rust your coolant pipes with either white vinegar or Evapo-Rust to get as much of the rust scale off the pipes. I learned this lesson the hard way when I spent several years chasing down cooling issues with my S2. Besides bum a temperature sending unit, voltage stabilizer, and a plugged radiator, the major cause of my hot running S2 was the crud in the pipes plugging up my radiator on initial start up. After I had my radiator boiled and back flushed by the radiator shop and performing the Evapo-Rust treatment, the car is finally running cool, maybe too cool.
Renault water pumps should be available from all three Lotus vendors for around $125. Make sure the gaskets are included.
Regarding the gas tank, I would bite the bullet and remove it. Have a radiator shop boil it out and do a pressure test.
If a new tank is required, order an aluminum replacement from Steve Veris.
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
Julian
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http://gallery.sportsandclassics.com/products/buckingham-classic-interiors/ (http://gallery.sportsandclassics.com/products/buckingham-classic-interiors/)
Sports & Classics, Inc. have a seat upholstery kit for the Twin Cam, not sure about your S2. They want about $500 for vinyl and about $650 for leather. I've not seen them in the flesh, so can't comment on quality.
These pics are from them-
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/New-Buckingham-Classic-Lotus-Europa-Twin-Cam-Seat-Upholstery-kit-Black-Pair-/00/s/OTYwWDEyODA=/$(KGrHqR,!qME88f7ZhbpBPTcOnGOq!~~60_58.JPG)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/New-Buckingham-Classic-Lotus-Europa-Twin-Cam-Seat-Upholstery-kit-Black-Pair-/00/s/OTYwWDEyODA=/$(KGrHqJ,!hoE84i3Ui5WBPTcPG0,Sw~~60_58.JPG)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/New-Buckingham-Classic-Lotus-Europa-Twin-Cam-Seat-Upholstery-kit-Black-Pair-/00/s/OTYwWDEyODA=/$(KGrHqR,!pQE8WmvsvgEBPTcQfQgP!~~60_58.JPG)
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Mark,
those seats look great
mike
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Hi Mark,
Wow, those seats look good!
I had a pair of seats for my TR6 re-upholstered by a local guy, in black pleather, with white piping, for $400 a few years ago. When I come to do my seats, I'll get a quote from him first - I expect his prices have gone up considerably :P
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If anyone gets these, please post a review. I've been thinking of getting them.