Author Topic: Master cylinder conversion follow ups  (Read 5801 times)

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Offline ezuskin

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Master cylinder conversion follow ups
« on: Wednesday,October 14, 2015, 06:33:34 AM »
Hi group,
My mechanic who is aligning my TC after I replaced steering rack commented that if you hold brake pedal down more than a few minutes it starts to go soft. I have been reading the various conversion posts, wife turns over and asks "what are you doing up reading at 2am" , I reply " obsessively researching new master cylinders for the Lotus" She is no longer concerned by my totally normal behavior.
I am curious about the long term reviews of these various conversions.
Triumph tandem
Tilton single circuit
Nissan F10 seems to be made of unobtanium
Ford Courier
Eddie
Europa TC
1972 2068R

Offline BDA

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Re: Master cylinder conversion follow ups
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday,October 14, 2015, 07:01:03 AM »
You can get that master cylinder rebuilt at White Post Restorations (http://whitepost.com/). I got mine rebuilt there recently.

Offline ezuskin

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Re: Master cylinder conversion follow ups
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday,October 14, 2015, 07:30:10 AM »
Rebuild would be kind of ok but would not improve my situation. I have TC size master with no boosters that, although can lock up brakes at speed, have always felt like pushing my foot against a block of wood, no real sense of being able to modulate.
Eddie
Eddie
Europa TC
1972 2068R

Offline Grumblebuns

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Re: Master cylinder conversion follow ups
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday,October 14, 2015, 08:17:54 AM »
I've had direct experience with two of the four mentioned, the Nissan F10 on a TCS and the Courier on an S2. Both were short term but essentially back to back with each other and the stock S2. All three had different pads which probably had some effect on the stopping power of each car. In terms of "feel", the F10 on the TCS had the nicest and plushest feel needing moderate pedal pressure to stop the car (boosters removed). Both the stock and Courier MCs were about equal in pedal pressure. Both needed fairly hard pressure to stop the car up to the point of impending lockup. I have not experimented with different brake pads on either car.

In doing my research on MC conversions for my S2, this is the conclusion that I came up (just my opinion of course).

1. The simplest and most "bolt on" is the Spitfire MC. No grinding of the MC body to make the flange bolts fit the pedal extension box and use the stock pushrod. Need to reroute the brake lines to the other side and is readily available.

2. Second simplest is the Tilton single circuit MC. Single circuit, direct bolt on as the Spitfire and relatively cheap. A bit more complicated in rerouting the brake lines in needing an additional three way union to hook up to front and back stock unions. How comfortable are you with a single circuit braking system.

3. I have first hand experience with the Ford Courier conversion but not with the F10. I believe, reading up on the F10 conversion, that both are about equal in the additional steps needed to make the MC fit. Both require grinding of the mounting holes, both need new brake lines and fittings, the F10 needs a remote reservoir fitted while the Courier needs a pushrod retaining system.

4. The last item to consider is cost and availability. The last time I checked a couple of years ago, the F10 MC was impossible to find anywhere so that ruled it out for me. The Tilton is relatively cheap and available, but I wanted to keep to a dual circuit system so the Tilton was eliminated for consideration. For some reason, I never seriously considered the Spitfire MC, wish I had. It's readily available from British car vendors for around $150. The Ford Courier MC was really cheap and available a couple of years ago. I bought mine for $25 from a vendor doing a closeout on the Cardone MCs. Do not know what the situation is now.

 

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Master cylinder conversion follow ups
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday,October 14, 2015, 09:40:01 AM »
Rebuild would be kind of ok but would not improve my situation. I have TC size master with no boosters that, although can lock up brakes at speed, have always felt like pushing my foot against a block of wood, no real sense of being able to modulate.
Eddie
Hi there,

If you have the standard pads intended for use with a servo, then I can understand why it feels wooden, back in the day there were different pad materials for servo & non-servo cars. So my first suggestion would be to try different brake pads unless you're in desperate need of a new m/cylinder.

I've used EBC Greenstuff which are ok,  standard Triumph Spitfire (non servo) Mintex pads and have just fitted some more expensive Mintex 1144 pads  along with some new calipers.   It's too early to comment on the latter, but both of the predecessors worked fine.  Ironically the cheap Mintex standard pads had more feel than the EBC  pads and I thought they were better.  So I think there's some mileage in trying different pad materials, sometimes the differences are surprising.

Back on topic, I have the Spitfire M/C & there are details here http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=138.0

The bore is 0.7" and if your current m/cyl is larger than this (I think some were) then you'll get longer pedal travel which you may or may not like.  On my car with discs all round the calculated pedal travel was 3.8cm and that's pretty much exactly what I get now when I finally bleed the brakes correctly.

Brian

Offline BDA

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Re: Master cylinder conversion follow ups
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday,October 14, 2015, 10:37:01 AM »
Brian,
There are several broken pictures in you post, "Yet another Tandem Master Cylinder installation". Do you think you can fix that?

Offline LotusJoe

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Re: Master cylinder conversion follow ups
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday,October 14, 2015, 11:15:56 AM »
Brian,
There are several broken pictures in you post, "Yet another Tandem Master Cylinder installation". Do you think you can fix that?
I just check that post and all seems to working correctly for me. Can you be more specific and I will check again.
Joe Irwin
3927R TC Special
(The Classic Barn Find)


Offline BDA

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Re: Master cylinder conversion follow ups
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday,October 14, 2015, 11:35:46 AM »
Hey Joe,

The first three pictures show up but the next three just show this:
(it shouldn't matter - and hasn't before - but I'm using Chrome on Win 7)
« Last Edit: Wednesday,October 14, 2015, 12:11:46 PM by BDA »

Offline LotusJoe

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Re: Master cylinder conversion follow ups
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday,October 14, 2015, 12:39:35 PM »
Hey Joe,

The first three pictures show up but the next three just show this:
(it shouldn't matter - and hasn't before - but I'm using Chrome on Win 7)
Ok, sorry I was looking at the wrong post. I think I have corrected the problem and it should be working now.
Joe Irwin
3927R TC Special
(The Classic Barn Find)


Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Master cylinder conversion follow ups
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday,October 14, 2015, 01:21:52 PM »
Yep, it's working on mine, Firefox on W10. When I got the link I didn't check past the top of first post so don't know if it was a problem before. Perhaps it might be better if we bundled these technical articles into PDF files when it's all over and we've ironed out the bugs ?  That way any photos should be bound up with the text.

Offline BDA

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Re: Master cylinder conversion follow ups
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday,October 14, 2015, 01:31:50 PM »
Hey Joe,

The first three pictures show up but the next three just show this:
(it shouldn't matter - and hasn't before - but I'm using Chrome on Win 7)
Ok, sorry I was looking at the wrong post. I think I have corrected the problem and it should be working now.
Yup! You fixed it, Joe! Thanks!
Actually, now that I look at it again, I think all the pictures are there (I see six) but the "broken picture" icon is still there on the last three pictures.
« Last Edit: Wednesday,October 14, 2015, 01:34:42 PM by BDA »

Offline 3929R

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Re: Master cylinder conversion follow ups
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday,October 14, 2015, 03:51:54 PM »
I'm still very happy with my F10 conversion and booster removal. http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=93.msg459#msg459
Too bad they've gone from cheap and plentiful (seemingly) to unobtanium.
Mark
Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

Offline BDA

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Re: Master cylinder conversion follow ups
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday,October 14, 2015, 05:56:41 PM »
I thought I had seen several places that claimed to sell the F10 master cylinder, but they were all out of stock... until I found this one (http://classicgarage.com/nidf10brmacy.html). Maybe they actually have one!

I found this place that said they would ship in 3 - 5 days (http://www.buyautopartsonline.ca/catalog-1/parttype/brake-master-cylinder/nissan/gt-r/f10)
« Last Edit: Wednesday,October 14, 2015, 07:23:12 PM by BDA »

Offline ezuskin

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Re: Master cylinder conversion follow ups
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday,October 14, 2015, 08:39:57 PM »
Thanks for locating the MC. Hope I'm  not sorry about buying a reman, not a big investment, $57 US
Eddie
Europa TC
1972 2068R

Offline BDA

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Re: Master cylinder conversion follow ups
« Reply #14 on: Thursday,October 15, 2015, 05:16:13 AM »
It should be OK. Let us know how it turns out.