Author Topic: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion  (Read 26340 times)

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Offline RoddyMac

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Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
« Reply #180 on: Sunday,February 19, 2017, 08:35:19 PM »
And now I have two seats:



Next up is making some patterns and sewing up some seat covers.  Which brings up some questions, as the car didnt come with seats, I have no idea how the headrests attach, and is the back of the seat frame covered?  I think I have the basic side bolster covers figured out, and I realise I can make the covers however I like, but I would like to get it close to stock.

In other news, I think I've solved my flywheel/clutch dilemma.  The Ford Focus clutch uses a 9 7/16" diameter disc, the largest Renault disc I could find was 215 mm (8 7/16").  I enquired about having the Renault center put into the Focus disc, but that was a no go  Next was trying to get my hands on a 1.8l Zetec flywheel from the UK, but that proved to be pricier than I had hoped.  I did find out that the Escort ZX2 (1998 to 2003) used an 8 7/8" disc.  So, after doing a quick search on Fleabay, I now have a ZX2 flywheel in hand, and it appears the Renault clutch will work.  I haven't bolted things together yet, but fingers crossed it will work.  Hopefully next weekend I'll get some time to pull the gearbox and bellhousing off the motor and bolt things together.

Rod

Offline HealeyBN7

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Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
« Reply #181 on: Tuesday,February 21, 2017, 07:05:20 AM »
I enquired about having the Renault center put into the Focus disc, but that was a no go 
Rod

I did just that by having Clutchnet fabricate a new clutch disk using a Renault center and to a diameter of my choice.  It should be rather easy for them.  They did something similar when I used a Toyota trans and mounted it into a Healey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT0iPWQV6Qs

Chutchnet: 2458 Merced Ave, South El Monte, CA 91733
Phone: (626) 448-7432

Not sure if they have a working web site... Pretty sure they are still in business.

Dean

 
« Last Edit: Tuesday,February 21, 2017, 07:09:14 AM by HealeyBN7 »

Offline skoolsen

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Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
« Reply #182 on: Tuesday,February 21, 2017, 07:21:26 AM »
Hi
I used a clutch disc from a peugeot 605 v6 24v 240mm, this fits the ng3 box and Focus Zetec flywheel/pressure plate.
I did a search in Sachs online catalog and found this among others to have the same spline as The ng3 box.

Magnar
0581R

Offline RoddyMac

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Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
« Reply #183 on: Tuesday,February 21, 2017, 07:45:42 AM »
Dean,
I went through your PDF and tried to look up Clutchnet online, but their website didn't work.   Though, I'd rather have an "off the shelf" clutch, I know I'll never have to replace the clutch, but if it ever needs replacing I wouldn't want to have to wait for a custom disc to be made.  I do seem to recall when the shop I worked at was converting a BN4 to a Toyota box we had the "clutch guy" in town make up a custom disc.  BTW, dear old dad and I restored a BN7 when I was in highschool, some days I wish he still had that car.

Magnar,
I never thought to look at Peugots for clutch discs.  The downside is the 605 never came to North America, so finding one locally isn't an option.  I'll do some internet searching and see if I can find a supplier that will ship one to the wet coast of Canada.

Rod

Offline skoolsen

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Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
« Reply #184 on: Tuesday,February 21, 2017, 12:02:16 PM »
Citroen also used the same spline size in some discs. If you check the ZF Sachs online catalog, first for the Renault Espace wich used the NG3 box and look for spline size on the disc. You can search for similar spline and disc diameter in other cars and makes.
Very useful.

This is the sachs number on the disc 76 1862 689 001
« Last Edit: Tuesday,February 21, 2017, 12:09:11 PM by skoolsen »
0581R

Offline RoddyMac

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Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
« Reply #185 on: Sunday,March 19, 2017, 03:38:54 PM »
A little bit of progress was made this weekend, I dropped the bellhousing off at a machine shop to have the NG3 input bearing/seal/sleeve installed.  I'll hopefully have it back by next weekend.  I also picked up some material for my sway bars and drop links.  The bars themselves are made from  5/8" diameter 1020 DOM tubing and the drop links have RH and LH threaded rod ends to allow easier adjustment.  The clamps for the bar took the better part of Saturday afternoon, while the mounting brackets for the front bar took less than an hour.  I still need to fab the rear mounting brackets, that's next weekends job. 





In regards to the material chosen for the sway bars, I've done some research and most will say to use 4130 steel, but others have gotten away with mild steel (1010 etc).  Only time will tell if I've made the right choice.  Also, in terms of how still the bars are, the front is roughly 80 lb/in while the rear is slightly less at around 60 lb/in.  Is this enough, again only time will tell. 

Rod
« Last Edit: Sunday,March 19, 2017, 03:40:57 PM by RoddyMac »

Offline andy harwood

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Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
« Reply #186 on: Sunday,March 19, 2017, 03:54:09 PM »
Very nice & neat work.
Did you weld in a threaded insert or tap the drop links for the rod ends?

Offline RoddyMac

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Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
« Reply #187 on: Sunday,March 19, 2017, 04:23:02 PM »
Andy,
I tapped the tubing, the rod ends are 5/16" UNF and the tube is 1/2" DOM with a wall of .125".  All that was needed was to slightly open up the tube with the appropriate sized drill for the tap and cut the tube to the lengths required (based on the 3d model I have in CAD). 

Rod

Offline andy harwood

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Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
« Reply #188 on: Sunday,March 19, 2017, 04:28:46 PM »
Thanks for the info.
I've seen the weld in inserts, and couldn't  tell if that is what you did.
Later, I'll need to make some rear upper suspension links, and have been wondering which method to use.

Offline RoddyMac

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Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
« Reply #189 on: Sunday,March 19, 2017, 04:31:45 PM »
All the other rear suspension pieces I fabbed have the welded in threaded inserts.  I amde the inserts  too, but if i were to do it again I would buy them.  I spent way too much time making them.

Offline jbcollier

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Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
« Reply #190 on: Sunday,March 19, 2017, 05:53:24 PM »
I'm not sure I read it correctly.  The sway bar is to be 5/8 tubing?  What wall thickness? If you going to use tubing, it is going to have to be thick wall and bigger in diameter.  I can bend 0.060 wall, 5/8 SS seamless tubing by hand.

Offline RoddyMac

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Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
« Reply #191 on: Sunday,March 19, 2017, 07:57:22 PM »
John,
The bars are 5/8" with a .125" wall.  So fairly heavy duty in terms of tubing.  Using the formula's in Staniforths books, I should be ok in terms of material size, my only concern with them is how long they will last (5k miles, 50k miles etc).  Even if they only survive 5k miles I'll be happy.  The other thing too is sizing, from the notes that I've gathered, 5/8" should be fine for the rear bar, but the front may require a slightly larger bar (though for what I'll be using the car for, I doubt it would notice a big difference). 

And, in terms of bending them, bending them by hand didnt work at all.  I had to break out the 10 ton press.

Rod

Offline BDA

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Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
« Reply #192 on: Sunday,March 19, 2017, 09:22:50 PM »
Torsion stresses are mainly on the outer circumference of a bar which is the reason that before Lotus used their tiny anti-roll bars on the 72, most race cars used tubular anti-roll bars. Of course it still has to be stiff enough. In general, the relevant parameters are the effective length of the lever arm and the diameter and length of the torsion part of the bar. The alloy of steel makes almost no difference.


Roddy, I'm not making any judgement on the appropriateness of of yours (I don't know the parameters for determining a good size), but I would say that 5/8" dia is pretty small compared to most I've seen. The stock TC anti-roll bar is much thicker and it is thicker than the S2 bar. Judging from what you've already done, I suspect you've done your homework so I'll just say I'm surprised that you need such a small bar.


BTW - beautifully done as always!

Offline RoddyMac

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Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
« Reply #193 on: Monday,March 20, 2017, 07:56:07 AM »
BDA,
I managed to find the notes I had collected on the 47, the stock front bar was 5/8" diameter and the rear was 11/16" dia.  Lotus was also using 188 lb/in front springs and 215 lb/in rears on the 47.  I'm currently using 200 lb/in fronts and 275 lb/in rears (which should give roughly what the 47 had for a wheel rate at the rear and slightly firmer for the front), so I think I should be ok with the front bar, but now I'm thinking the rear should be a bit larger (the lever arm portion of the bar is quite longer than the front, hence the larger diameter required).   Once the car is on the road I at least have a starting point, currently I have a grand total of $73 US invested in both front & rear bars and drop links.  I'm sure the car budget can handle another set of bars in the future. 

Rod

Offline BDA

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Re: My Type 54 to sort of 47 Conversion
« Reply #194 on: Monday,March 20, 2017, 11:20:01 AM »
I figured you had a good reason to use those bars!