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Lotus Europa Forums => Off Topic Subjects => Topic started by: EuropaTC on Sunday,March 19, 2017, 10:26:24 AM

Title: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: EuropaTC on Sunday,March 19, 2017, 10:26:24 AM
Well, now I've got your attention with the title.....     ::)

This is a short post about learning new tricks, one in particular that's taken me years of watching, wishing "I'd like to have a go at that" and finally getting around to doing something about it. The trick ? TIG welding.

Yes, I know there's nothing magical or astounding about the process and there are guys on here who can produce excellent welds (which I've been envious of) so on the face of it this is nothing to shout about.   But equally I'm guessing there are folks who are like me, look in awe at a guy stitching metal together and thinking "I wish...."   So this is a "it's not as hard as you might think" post.

I've had an MMA set for a long time and successfully blown holes in lots of thin sheets over the years until I finally accepted that to weld car bodywork I'd need a MIG set. I bought one and found that yep, you can do thin stuff with this.  But it's not as neat as those guys with TIG sets and I really, really wanted one of those. I decided this year, with me turning that milestone 65,  was going to be "the year." 

So I bought one, a sheet of 1mm 304 stainless and set about blowing holes in it......   It's been a learning curve, but as I said at the start, it's not as bad as you might think. I've just finished my first project today and whilst it's not as neat as some I've seen on this forum, it's not bad for a first venture into the process and at least it's holding water at 7PSI.....

So here's the message. If you're like me and thinking "Can I do that ?" the answer is "Yes". And if you can stick weld then I'd even go as far as to say you'll be up and running within a day or so's practice. It's not been as simple to work out as MIG, but considering I struggled for ages with stick welding, TIG has much better control.

Now all I need to do is make it look pretty......    ;)
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: andy harwood on Sunday,March 19, 2017, 10:46:00 AM
Very nice work.
You are correct, as the advertisement said - "Just Do It".
And practice really helps.
I need to practice TIG more. I will be doing just that later on. I have stainless scraps & rod to waste.
There was a lot of sanitary TIG welding done where I worked. Used to go to the shop and watch.
It looked just like sewing 2 pieces of pipe together. The welders hand was so steady. He told me, if your hand writing was neat,
you'd probably make a good welder.
No one can read my writing.
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: BDA on Sunday,March 19, 2017, 11:42:09 AM

I've been threatening to learn how to weld for years. I'm a member of a local MG club (they'll let just about anybody in!) and our club owns a welder. Another guy in the club said he would teach a few of us and after many emails back and forth, it sort of fell apart. The thing that is giving pause is the equipment necessary. I don't mean the welder - after all, I can borrow the club's welder - but a table, clamps, screens (I can't do it in my garage), etc. And maybe I'm making too much of that, but then a teacher could set me straight on that. There really is no room in my garage for even a fold up welding table (ok, I could hang it from the ceiling, I guess). My question is - is all that (the bulky stuff) necessary? Is it practical at all do do welding in my driveway? Would I have to set up a screen to protect people's eyes? What sort of equipment would I need besides the welder? See the attached picture of my driveway.




Brian, your tank looks really good - especially for your first effort! I wouldn't feel the need to apologize for that at all!




Andy, that first paragraph may have been a worthless effort. My handwriting isn't good for much either!
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: andy harwood on Sunday,March 19, 2017, 11:57:35 AM
Don't see why you couldn't do driveway welding. If you are doing TIG/MIG, the wind may affect your cover gas somewhat. The gasless MIG units do a good job.
Table, welder, gloves, face shield, electrical supply, and metal scraps, good things for a start. I made my table from a section of wire shelving.
You may be able to get metal scraps for 0 costs at a sheet metal shop.
Later on in the summer, you are more than welcome to come on over and try out your hand here on TIG & MIG. Then, there happens to be a Europa frame in the shop that needs....
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: BDA on Sunday,March 19, 2017, 01:51:53 PM
As it turns out, I have a mask, gloves, and arm shields. I found a folding welding table at Harbor Freight that seems reasonable. Maybe I can actually find a place for it. Something to think about...
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: EuropaTC on Sunday,March 19, 2017, 11:47:51 PM
I'll come back with more encouragement.....    :)

BDA, that's not a driveway, that would be a plot for a house over here !  I can't imagine any problem there with arc flash to anyone's eyes unless they deliberately walk up and peer in, they'll be too far away and mostly you'll be shielding the arc with your body anyway.  It's not like stick where it's all happening at arm's length, this is close and personal.  I fitted a gas lens to the torch to improve shielding, that might be an option to improve outdoor welding.

I was using my normal workbench (wooden) with the earth lead directly on the workpiece and a 18"x12" sacrificial sheet of wood directly under the workpiece. Even then I am too slow to set it on fire.....

As for steady hands, I watched loads of Youtube videos and realised that I'm simply not that good.  So I used blocks of wood as a "wrist rest" which stabilised my arm and just meant I was following the weld by wrist action. Think of the painter using a support on fine detail and it's a similar principle. It's not good enough for pro welding because it limits your travel, but 2-3" of weld was as much as I could concentrate on anyway, so it was fine for me. 

Finally a repeat plug for Youtube. There are some amazing welding videos out there and it was mostly those which gave me the push to "JDI"
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: BDA on Monday,March 20, 2017, 06:04:18 AM
Thanks, Brian! It sounds like I can manage it logistically. Now all I have to do is gather stuff to weld and get ahold of a teacher. I assume YouTube videos are good at improving technique but not for rank beginners, right?
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,March 20, 2017, 09:42:09 AM
There are a couple which I would say are for people who have never welded before. There was one from a guy calling himself "Mr TIG" who very simply explains how to hold the torch and how you should be moving. It sounds in the "welding for Dummies" class of instruction but I take the attitude that if I don't know a skill then I'll read/watch any help I can get. I watched a few of his before starting and felt I understood the mechanics of the process better and how it differs from arc/MIG welding.

Another thing that I also found very useful is something called a "cheater lens". I need spectacles for both distance and reading so was a bit dubious about this item, but...   old dogs, new tricks.   Basically it's a plastic lens which fits inside your welding helmet and the focal length is  such that once you're in the welding position you get a magnified image. You can pick what magnification you want, I decided on 2x and found this gives me a very clear image of the weld pool (and any holes I'm about to blow !)

Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: FranV8 on Monday,March 20, 2017, 11:28:12 AM
Welding Tips and Tricks with Jody are quite good, as is the forum Migwelding.co.uk.

Great work - what welding machine have you got?  I can TIG, I learnt some by practicing then taking the results to work for the welding co guys to look at.  I think they got more entertainment than I got advice though...
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: Rosco5000 on Monday,March 20, 2017, 11:29:32 AM
i have both a TIG and a MIG welder.  I will say they both have their place but the TIG is very versatile.  I learned MIG from my Dad but had to teach myself TIG.  I liken it to gas welding but with an arc instead of a flame to induce heat.  I found a lot of YouTube videos helpful.  The two best channels for me were weldingtipsandtricks and ChuckE2009.  Both have great tips for TIG welding.

As far as welding outside I would try to avoid it.  I sometimes weld near the garage door of my shop and as soon as there is a light breeze I have shielding gas issues.  You might be able to make it work if you have to but that would require you turning up the flow of the gas and you will consume way more.

I just weld on a wood workmate with an extra board on top, the only time I have had issues was with plasma cutting and welding thick material (1/4 inch) those pieces of metal hold a lot of heat and char the workmates up nicely. 

As always exercise extreme caution and have a fire extinguisher at your work station no matter where it is. 
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: RoddyMac on Monday,March 20, 2017, 12:40:24 PM
I've always tried to advocate the "just do it" approach to anything.  When I was a kid I read a book on Honda and what I took from it was "99% of all learning is trial and error" which I have applied to nearly everything I've done.  Basically just do it, if it works it works, if it doesn't, figure out why and try again. 

The same applies to my welding skills, I borrowed a MIG welder (then bought one), blew holes in a bunch of 1" 18ga tubing, then figured out why and taught myself how to MIG weld.  When the MIG welder started to act up, dear old dad and I picked up an Eastwood TIG.  I blew holes in everything for a few weekends, then figured things out.  Watching Welding Tips and Tricks helped immensely.  The next step was welding aluminum, that took a bit more time, but eventually I figured it out.  I can say that my welds look nothing like a pro welder, but they do there job and the coupons that I've subjected to destructive testing proved that the welds hold just fine.

As for welding environment, I wouldn't want to weld outside with a TIG.  I'd much rather be sitting in a chair working over a bench.  My "bench" consists of a pair of saw horses, a piece of plywood and a small sheet of 16 ga steel.  I ground the steel, then set the part I'm working on right on the steel. 

The other things is, get a set of gas lenses.  They are invaluable if your needing to weld in tight spaces, I had to stick the tungsten out at least 3/4" for some of the tight spots on my chassis, and with the gas lens I had no issues what so ever.

And, I hate to admit it, but I might look into getting a cheater lens.  I'm no where near old enough to require it, but some days I find myself getting really close to the piece I'm welding.


Rod
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: andy harwood on Monday,March 20, 2017, 01:01:15 PM
Europa TC & Roddy Mac -Thank you for the cheater lens tip - I've not heard of that, will look into it!
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: BDA on Monday,March 20, 2017, 01:08:39 PM
Well, I'm a bit back where I started. I can't weld in my garage. My wife got tired of my "working" garage with my 8' long workbench so I now have about a 4' work bench. The nice thing is that a lot of junk is in cabinets. The other thing my wife decided is that the cement garage floor looked crappy (it really did) and we covered the entire garage floor in rubber tiles. Not the kind of thing you want a hot spark or piece of metal to land on.


I appreciate all the advice everybody has given. One day I'll be set up.
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: Rosco5000 on Monday,March 20, 2017, 01:26:27 PM
Don't give up BDA, TIG welding is really clean as in there is basically no sparks or spatter if you are doing it right.  Nothing like the cracking and popping of a MIG with sparks all over.  It may still be an option if you can do all your grinding outside.
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: BDA on Monday,March 20, 2017, 03:26:45 PM
I checked and the MG club has a MIG welder so unless I find a friend with a TIG welder, I'll probably have to start on MIG. There is the possibility that I might buy my own welder - if I can find a place to store it! A friend told me to get the highest amperage welder I can afford, but that's not much help for me. I don't think I'm likely to weld anything as thick as 1/4". What amperage would you recommend?
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: andy harwood on Monday,March 20, 2017, 04:16:13 PM
check out eastwood site. they have a nice variety of tig/mig setups. I'm sure there are others though. Or make a trip to welders supply, prolly cost a bit more.

Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: BDA on Monday,March 20, 2017, 05:50:52 PM
I've started watching Northern Tool and Harbor Freight and occasionally Amazon, but so far, I'm just watching...
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,March 20, 2017, 11:15:41 PM
I checked and the MG club has a MIG welder so unless I find a friend with a TIG welder, I'll probably have to start on MIG. There is the possibility that I might buy my own welder - if I can find a place to store it! A friend told me to get the highest amperage welder I can afford, but that's not much help for me. I don't think I'm likely to weld anything as thick as 1/4". What amperage would you recommend?

The logic on buying the highest amperage set can't really be faulted because you can always turn it down !  However in the DIY world where it's your own time and doesn't matter if you finish today or tomorrow, then there's a place for lower powered sets. Clearly I'm no expert but I'll happily tell you what I bought and why.

My set is a 160 amp, DC only set with the facility for upslope/downslope/pulse welding, it's compact and runs off a (UK) standard 13 amp plug.   160 amp because 200+ amps requires a 16 amp input. The advantages of higher power are thicker metals, longer duty cycles before it overheats/cuts out and faster welding.  Most sets I saw also do arc welding so a higher amperage would come in handy should you want to weld 1/2" steels but I've no intention of welding greater than 1/4" with this set.  If it's of interest, that header tank is 1mm 304 SS and was mostly welded at 40 amps, the highest I went to was 50 amps on pulsed current

I picked DC only because sets with AC welding are for Aluminium and other highly oxidising metals. I considered an AC/DC set but decided I'd probably not use the facility as I've got a MIG set which I would use for Al.   

Upslope/downslope just make it easier to control the start & finish of a weld, plus reducing the tendency for crater cracking at the end of a run with some metals. 

Pulse welding because you can minimise overall heat input and still have good penetration. I think it's easier to control on thinner metals, especially if you're welding without filler metal addition. I used pulse on the overflow return tube attachment where it was easy to build up heat but I don't think it's essential, more a "nice to have".
 
That's the so-called "logic" behind my purchase although you need a lot of man-maths to claim it's a sensible buy  ;)

I don't know if it's an option over there in the US, but some places in the UK run training schools for hobbyists and if you could find one locally that might give you a taster ?

Brian
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: FranV8 on Tuesday,March 21, 2017, 12:23:35 AM
That's not an RTech by chance is it? I have the 160 amp AC DC.  I bought the pedal as well which helps in some situations. 

I also changed the torch to a water cooled one, so much lighter and more flexible than the stock air cooled one.  I built the cooler out of a central heating pump and a Corvette power steering cooler, bit overkill but it works a treat.

TIG is great for clean jobs where you can set things up where you can get to them (I can't recollect getting the hang of doing it upside down).
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: EuropaTC on Tuesday,March 21, 2017, 12:53:19 AM
That's not an RTech by chance is it? I have the 160 amp AC DC.  I bought the pedal as well which helps in some situations. 
:)

Yep, it's RTech 160amp but just the cheaper DC version.  I've been very impressed with it so far.

I'm still too inexperienced with TIG to make significant equipment changes, the only addition I've made so far is to add gas lenses to enable the tungsten to go out a bit more for fillet welds in tight spots. Since buying it I've looked on the RTech site and think the smaller torch would have been better for my use, maybe later. Likewise the foot pedal is on the options list, I think that would be better for seated/bench welding.

Brian
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,March 21, 2017, 07:13:40 AM
Great information! Thanks. If I do go down that road it's comforting to know I don't have to spend much at all on a set.
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: andy harwood on Tuesday,March 21, 2017, 09:33:10 AM
BDA, Chuck Nukem mentioned makerspace co-ops. There is one in Greensboro, has a small machine shop- lathe, mill, welders. This may be a option for you. Cheap, use anytime.
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,March 21, 2017, 09:42:32 AM
I had forgotten about those. I think there was one in Raleigh but I think it went under. I could be wrong so I'll see what I can find out. That's a really great option for most of us.
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: Rosco5000 on Wednesday,March 22, 2017, 10:47:08 AM
This is all good advice.  I myself went down the used route.  I bought a Miller Syncrowave 200.  It is an older transformer machine, and 200 amps as the name suggests.  Way more machine than I currently need but it welded nicely on a lift I made for my 4X4 all made out of 1/4" plate steel.  There is a lot of debate on Chinese vs. American made welders on the welding forums.  I think in hind sight I might have tried a chinese welder if I did it again.  Look of an IGBT Inverter machine, this is the newest technology and you don't need massive house wiring to do the job.  Right now my welder in in my dad's shop with easy access to 220 power but if I move it to my house one day I am going to have to get a 220V 60 amp circuit into my garage some how to power that old transform based machine it might cost as much as the machine itself just to power it. 

110V Migs are fantastic little units and really can do most of what a hobbiest needs unless you start wanting to do truck stuff.
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: Grumblebuns on Thursday,March 23, 2017, 07:52:37 AM
BDA, another option to start learning how to weld is to see if your local community college offers welding technology classes. I was planning to enroll in the Welding 100 introductory class this spring until other commitments popped up and I had to back out. Perhaps I'll try again this summer.

I took a three day introductory welding course offered by my local art academy several years ago. It whet my appetite to learn more welding. I only got as far as buying a used Lincoln "tombstone" arc welder from  a buddy of mine and haven't done anything with it since.   
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: BDA on Thursday,March 23, 2017, 09:24:49 AM
I did talk with a guy from the local community college about taking some welding courses. He seemed disappointed that I didn't want to get a degree. We played phone tag a while and eventually one of us didn't call back. I also talked with a guy in the MG club who said he would teach a few of us and that fell apart, too. Maybe, this just isn't to be! I may revive the issue in the MG club again. The two things that are hampering me are that I would have to go to a friend's house to do any welding or practice, and that I don't really have a burning project to use it. Of course, the fact is that once you have a tool, more opportunities to use it appear from nowhere. It will happen sometime.
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: Grumblebuns on Thursday,August 10, 2017, 11:31:59 AM
I decided to follow my own advice and take a formal welding course at my local community college. This past summer, I just wrapped up a six week summer introductory welding class. It really was well worth the time and expense. The class was four days a week with one hour of classroom followed by of "lab" which consisted of three hours of  hand on welding practice with top notch equipment on what was discussed in the classroom.

The big thing I got out of this experience was not having to pay someone $40 a pop to weld up a simple item and then wait a day to pick up the next day with everything on hold. I'm confident that I can weld up simple non critical stuff in carbon steel. If it comes to welding aluminum or stainless steel, I will need a bit more practice before doing anything in those two metals. We spent two weeks TIG welding aluminum plate in class, laying flat beads, lap joints and "T" joints. I still can't weld a "T" joint to save my life.

At this point, it's on the look out for a used MIG or TIG welder to maintain my limited welding skills and hopefully create projects like what Brian has done with his exhaust header and S/S  header tank.

To carry on my technical education, I've enrolled in a manual transmission/FWD transaxle class for the fall semester. This should come in handy when the time comes to tear into the 336 gearbox.
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: EuropaTC on Thursday,August 10, 2017, 01:13:56 PM
 :)

That is a really inspirational post Joji, good on you for getting out there and making it happen.

The course sounds quite intensive and a real commitment of your time, I think you're being modest when you call that an introductory course. I'm betting you come out of such a course with more skill than you're letting on. 

Get yourself some kit and let's see some projects !

Well done again.

Brian.
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: BDA on Thursday,August 10, 2017, 01:21:24 PM
I'm envious, Joji! Maybe one day...
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: FranV8 on Thursday,August 10, 2017, 11:31:51 PM
Joji, I know I'm on the wrong side of the pond, but when looking for kit that is going to see garage use (occasional) I would recommend some of the imported Chinese sourced inverter machines.  I have an R Tech from over here (UK) - the local distributor rebramds them and is impeccable for customer service.  Mine is a TIG.  My friend has an inverter MIG and it's great too, he's done a couple of 60's Mustangs and is on something really old and American now that is made entirely of rust flakes.

I think over there the equivalent is probably Everlast.

If you've got the power supply in your garage, some of the older transformer based equipment is cheap and indestructible second hand, but you'd need 3 phase power for the best bargains.  And bang goes any portability.

Well done on the course!
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: Yellowbelly on Friday,August 11, 2017, 03:17:27 AM
Mig is a really good place to start on the principles of welding and then move onto tig as and when you start getting the hang of it. A good hobby Mig would be about 130 amps and will allow you to do most jobs that you would need on a car. If you can afford it going up to 160 amp opens up a different level of welder with options for "Euro" type torches and better earth leads and generally cheaper consumables. Also think of your gas supply as that is where most of your long term costs will be swallowed up. I have an ongoing supply contract with a local distributor because i use several cylinders worth per year so its cheaper on a monthly direct debit. Other options in the UK (I dont know about the states or Australia) are what are called hobby gas suppliers. Basically you buy a cylinder for life and pay for refills from authorized distributors. This is more expensive on an individual cylinder basis but better if you are not likely to use much as once you have the set up it only costs you at refill time. The small cylinders which often come with cheaper welders are not worth bothering with unless you are only going to weld once in a blue moon. Some people in the UK use "pub gas" which is generally CO2. I wouldn't recommend this for a beginner. O good welder can make it work but it is likely to create issues with the weld that the inexperienced welder will not be able to compensate for. Dont forget if you are going down the proper cylinder route you will need to factor in the cost of a cylinder adapter on the cheaper budget welders. It is also a good idea to install a flow meter so that you can accurately regulate your gas flow.

A little tip for Tig welding is to run the torch lead up your left arm (assuming you are right handed), across your shoulders and down your right arm into your hand. This supports the weight of the lead and torch and will allow you to get a more comfortable welding position.

Be aware that once you start on the road to welding and creating things there is no going back.You will start to look at everything on the car and think how can i make that better and before you know it.......
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: Yellowbelly on Friday,August 11, 2017, 03:21:20 AM
Forgot to add there is a really good welding website with a good forum which has lots of useful hints on getting started
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: Grumblebuns on Friday,August 11, 2017, 07:51:09 AM
Thanks for all of the tips and advice. I'm currently limited to a vintage Lincoln arc welder also referred to as "tombstone" or "buzzbox". It will have to make do till I'm able to afford a MIG or TIG unit.

My garage currently has a dedicated 50A 230V circuit for heavy duty equipment. Anyone know what size welder I will be limited to with my power setup. Also, I'm thinking of initially getting a MIG welder, possibly a TIG later on, so are there any welding hobby jobs that a MIG welder can't do that a TIG can?



 
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: FranV8 on Friday,August 11, 2017, 09:01:46 AM
Crikey that opens things up, well my 160 amp inverter runs okay on 13 amp, so you'd be good to a pretty big machine, but single phase.  TIG is good for some really neat welding on a large variety of materials, but typically for us mere mortals it'd want to be pieces you can do on a bench and do from above/on the side.  It doesn't like dirty or rusty metal, so repairs need to be cleaned up.  Mig is probably better for general repairs in situ.  All in my opinion!

MIG can do aluminium but it sounds like a frustrating experience with variable results.
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: EuropaTC on Friday,August 11, 2017, 09:23:29 AM
Thanks for all of the tips and advice. I'm currently limited to a vintage Lincoln arc welder also referred to as "tombstone" or "buzzbox". It will have to make do till I'm able to afford a MIG or TIG unit.

My garage currently has a dedicated 50A 230V circuit for heavy duty equipment. Anyone know what size welder I will be limited to with my power setup. Also, I'm thinking of initially getting a MIG welder, possibly a TIG later on, so are there any welding hobby jobs that a MIG welder can't do that a TIG can?

Hi Joji,

I started off with an arc welder and moved to a 130 amp MIG a few years later because I wanted to weld aluminium. MIG can do that easily provided you pick the right gas;  I used Argon and still do as I can use it for Al/SS/CS because even if it's not ideal it works well enough across the range.  The MIG unit has welded car body panel steel, thin stainless and up to 3mm Al.  For thicker mild steel I prefer arc welding, it's easy to get lack of fusion with low powered MIG units on thick steel.

TIG can do all of the above but if you want to weld Al with TIG you need an AC/DC set. You can weld Al on DC but it's not as easy and the usual weld procedures are for AC.   

An inverter TIG unit as mentioned by FranV8 will also do arc welding so if you only pick one welder, an AC/DC TIG set is the most flexible.  My set is a 160 amp RTech branded Chinese (?) welder and it runs happily of a 13amp plug (32amp RCD supply) so your 50 amp supply will be plenty.  The 130amp MIG and 150amp Arc welding sets also work off 13 amp plugs, you will only need higher power supply if you want to weld thick steel. (I'm guessing maybe 200 amp sets ?)

There's a lot said for and against the Chinese units and I don't know enough about the designs to comment one way or another. The critical thing is your supplier and if they stock replacement parts that you'll hopefully never need but just might. R-Tech in the UK are known for customer support and that's why they got my business - you will have similar people over your side of the pond and I'd urge you to look at the supplier & not just the price tag !

I'll also be controversial and try to push you towards TIG rather than MIG. MIG is great for car bodywork and generally speaking you can knock out welds within an hour of getting your new set home.    BUT......   these days I don't use it very much.

For example, I originally made the Europa petrol tanks with the MIG set and they have 1/4" tube outlets which took me ages to get that leak-free because the welding wire comes out too fast for me to do such delicate work. There's a limit to how much you can slow it down and the process still work, unlike TIG welding where you have far better control over current and wire addition.  Another example in a different metal, those caliper brackets were made using the arc welder. I could have used MIG but was concerned over lack of root fusion on thick steel. 

So for your average hobbyist, an AC/DC TIG set with Argon gas can weld pretty much anything you're likely to need.  If you decide Al isn't going to feature on your wish list then a DC TIG will be significantly cheaper to buy. I predict if you buy a MIG set then you won't use it after you've got a TIG welder.......   ;)

Brian

Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: Grumblebuns on Saturday,August 12, 2017, 06:54:02 AM
I have zero experience with budget to mid grade hobby welders so don't know what to expect in regards to features. In the welding class, we used what I believe were top notch equipment (see pictures) so I suspect there will be a slight let down using lesser equipment.

Reading everyone's opinion, I suspect I will be looking at a reasonably priced TIG welder. There will probably lots of used welders out there that people are not using. U-Tube will also probably be my friend as I actually start TIG welding. I got relatively short TIG experience in class, enough to know that I will need more practice to get acceptable results.

Brian and others, keep posting your welding projects here, I'm sure most of us are very interested in what you are all up to.
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: EuropaTC on Saturday,August 12, 2017, 09:17:31 AM
Unless you're about to blow the budget on a welding set, I think you might be in for a bit of  "downsizing"  :)

The budget/DIY stuff isn't bad, the main thing I found is that the duty cycle or how long you can weld before they cut out through over temperature, which isn't as good with diy sets as with pro gear. And that's as you'd expect, a pro wants to weld all day without stopping for the set to cool down.

Some DIY sets have fans which help in this respect, and most of the better ones will.  As encouragement to what you can get with a relatively small budget, this is my workbench with the sliding doors removed...   Arc/TIG/MIG.

Brian
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: andy harwood on Saturday,August 12, 2017, 10:27:38 AM
Nice collection Brian.
Grumble - Eastwood has a "Eastwood" labeled line. Quality may be a bit better. Worth checking out. I've been happy with my MIG.
Title: Re: Old Dogs.... new tricks
Post by: FranV8 on Saturday,August 12, 2017, 12:35:19 PM
I've got the Eastwood plasma cutter.  Good machine and great value .  I looked at their TIG though and the R Tech equipment was significantly better in my opinion.  Never had duty cycle issues, and I use a water cooled torch (built my own cooler with a central heating pump, some Tupperware and a Corvette power steering cooler) and I am rarely above 70 amps for things I do.