Author Topic: 1265R is now in my garage  (Read 608 times)

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Offline gideon

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1265R is now in my garage
« on: Friday,December 29, 2017, 01:35:58 PM »
We rolled her off the trailer and into the garage this morning.  The frame is rusted out at the front, but I have a good replacement frame.  This will be my first old car restoration project - what things would you do before dismantling anything?


Offline BDA

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Re: 1265R is now in my garage
« Reply #1 on: Friday,December 29, 2017, 02:24:34 PM »
 :Welcome:, gideon!!

You've probably thought about most of these already but...

While it's sitting in your garage, you might take note of whether and where it's leaking. Of course, you have to keep in mind how many miles are on major components (engine, tranny, gauges, alternator, etc.) and try to assess how hard those miles were.

I think you should figure out what you want to have when you're done - what mods, enhancements, etc. Then start to line up suppliers - see this page to start: http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1389.0

Europas are pretty simple cars, but it would not be a bad idea to take a bunch of pictures of each area before and during your disassembly. This can help you remember how it's supposed to go back together. Take pictures of how it goes together. It can also serve as a record. Toward that end, I would advise that you keep a notebook or log of what you've done. I wish I had started mine when I started my build. Note specifics like spring rates, and other specs. Label each wire you disconnect. You should also keep track of where you took off each nut and bolt even if you plan on replacing them (and I would advise that you plan on replacing most of them).

Hopefully, that will get you started. Don't forget to post lots of pictures here as you go and don't be shy about asking questions!

Good luck!
« Last Edit: Friday,December 29, 2017, 03:03:00 PM by BDA »

Offline dakazman

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Re: 1265R is now in my garage
« Reply #2 on: Friday,December 29, 2017, 04:11:24 PM »
Welcome Gideon, you are in the right place to start.

  I second all BDA said and I’ll add build some shelves to store the items taken off. Place in large zip lock bags . Tag items as to work or sent out , ie chroming, machinists . We here love pictures. Waiting to here more of your progress and info on car.
0452 Dakazman

Offline BDA

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Re: 1265R is now in my garage
« Reply #3 on: Friday,December 29, 2017, 05:48:47 PM »
Something I didn't mention is that you should familiarize yourself with the workshop manual while taking it apart and refer to it often when putting it back together. Having a physical version is handy but it's nice that it is online and searchable here: http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/index.htm

Offline Certified Lotus

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Re: 1265R is now in my garage
« Reply #4 on: Friday,December 29, 2017, 08:49:55 PM »
 :Welcome: Gideon! Great group of guys on this forum who are very knowledgeable and perfectly happy to look over your shoulder to provide sage advice.  Trust me, you will be very happy to have it  :beerchug:

I agree with all of the above comments.  Zip lock bags and a sharpie should be permanent parts of your shop.  Plus those paper tags with wire on them.  Tag everything (and I mean everything) and label each and every bag.  And then take lots and lots of digital photos along the way of every angle you can imagine.  A couple of months (or years) down the road you will be happy you did when your trying to put everything together. 

Offline 4129R

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Re: 1265R is now in my garage
« Reply #5 on: Saturday,December 30, 2017, 01:17:12 AM »
Only work on the car when you are in the right mood, or you will make mistakes.

Take your time, dismantle everything, except the gearbox unless this is essential, clean everything thoroughly when putting it back together, use new bolts, spring washers, and self locking nuts where needed whenever possible.

Expect some bolts to shear off through rust, you will have to drill them out and oversize or line the larger hole with a new spring thread.

You will needs lots of sharp drill bits (many will break), and a variety of rotary wire brushes to put in a battery drill.

When in doubt about ANYTHING, just ask here, someone will have trod that path before.

Alex in Norfolk, the home of Lotus.

Offline EuropatcSPECIAL

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Re: 1265R is now in my garage
« Reply #6 on: Saturday,December 30, 2017, 04:26:26 AM »
welcome Gideon, by the time you have finished you will have gained so many skills, good luck and keep us posted      :lotus:

Offline gideon

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Re: 1265R is now in my garage
« Reply #7 on: Saturday,December 30, 2017, 08:54:52 AM »
Thanks for all the words of advice. It may be unexciting, but I think job number one is to organize the garage better, find somewhere else to keep all the garden implements and maybe put up some shelf rails.

One thing I was wondering about - the replacement frame _looks_ straight, but do you know of practical methods to verify that it is indeed straight enough?  By the way, the PO, welded some reinforcing patches to the front cross member, on the theory that it is a known weak point and should be reinforced.  The original frame collapsed there, so that may have been a motivating factor.  I'll post some pics later, see whether you think this is a good thing or a bad thing.

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: 1265R is now in my garage
« Reply #8 on: Saturday,December 30, 2017, 09:08:30 AM »
One thing I was wondering about - the replacement frame _looks_ straight, but do you know of practical methods to verify that it is indeed straight enough? 

The dimensions of the S2 chassis are given in the manual, if you haven't got a copy yet, BDA posted the links earlier on which will sort you out.  That will give you an idea of how good your chassis is to start with at least.

If your chassis is distorted then at the front there's not a lot you can do to modify the suspension angles without resorting to adjustable wishbones. And I think they would probably be a custom build, so personally I'd be concerned about any welding/distortion on the front T arrangements.

At the rear you can get adjustable lower links to modify the rear camber and the rear toe is set up with shims anyway so I'd be relaxed about the geometry from the Y backwards unless it's very, very far out from the manual.

Brian

Offline 4129R

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Re: 1265R is now in my garage
« Reply #9 on: Saturday,December 30, 2017, 09:10:26 AM »
When you have taken the gearbox out, you will find the car very difficult to move.

I screw 2# 4"x2" at 4ft long, to a wooden pallet. Screw 6" trolley wheels to the 4 corners of the 4" x 2"s. Jack the car up at the front (very light), and put axle stands under the front cross member with a wooden spreader if the chassis is rusty there. Then jack up the back where the rear of the gearbox attaches to the bottom hoop. Slide the pallet trolley underneath, and unjack both ends.

Then you can move the car in any direction quite easily, just like Formula 1 pit crews.

To drop the fuel tanks, you need the shell as far back on the pallet as you can without it tipping off, as the tanks have to come out through the bottom. Most tanks have very rusted tops as the water just lays there and rusts away.

Offline BDA

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Re: 1265R is now in my garage
« Reply #10 on: Saturday,December 30, 2017, 09:15:10 AM »
The workshop manual gives some dimensions to check against. If you also ensure that the 'T' is at a right angle to the backbone and your cross measurements (left front to right rear and vice versa) match, you should be good. Thinking about it, those are somewhat redundant but better to be safe than sorry.

Offline gideon

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Re: 1265R is now in my garage
« Reply #11 on: Monday,January 01, 2018, 05:48:41 PM »
I tried a few things to decide whether the front T piece is perpendicular to the backbone. It's not easy to make accurate measurements at this scale, using household items. One test that I found worked well was to use a piece of very low stretch line, dyneema aka ultra-high modulus polyethylene rope with a ball stopper at one end, threaded through the upper wishbone mounting tube, and then measure to the welded in tubular mounting point low on the rear end of the backbone (what is that for?).  Fortunately, it came out to within 2mm one side to the other, which was very reassuring.

Offline gideon

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Re: 1265R is now in my garage
« Reply #12 on: Monday,January 01, 2018, 05:59:41 PM »
Photos.

Offline BDA

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Re: 1265R is now in my garage
« Reply #13 on: Monday,January 01, 2018, 07:13:59 PM »
My guess is that is the seatbelt mount. If so, it should be threaded. You should try to do cross measurements from the front suspension to the opposite far end of the frame. That would give you a more accurate indication of how straight the frame is. You might also do cross measurements on the front suspension pick ups (top left to bottom right and vice versa). Measurements from the each rear "leg" to the center of the "V" at the end of the backbone would be a good idea. You might also try to determine that the sheet metal of the 'T', the backbone, and the rear "legs" is flat with a straight edge. If there are any damage, the chances are that there will be some bowing, creases, buckling, or wrinkles in the sheet metal.

From your pictures, it appears that your frame is straight but it's good do your best to make sure. Our own Serge has a few videos of the repairs he did to his S1 frame. IIRC, he explained some of the measurements he used to ensure his frame was straight. You might want to take a look at them for inspiration here: https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC4SCAucoAQf4XFesjFsTtKQ

Offline GavinT

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Re: 1265R is now in my garage
« Reply #14 on: Monday,January 01, 2018, 09:07:32 PM »
G’day, gideon,

Establishing the status of the frame could be tricky.
I cut the rear hoop out in order to install a 5-speeder and of course lost any datum points associated with the transaxle in the process.

Given your front T section appears to have a panel welded (and pop riveted?) over the top face, I’d want to make doubly sure it’s all kosher.

Here’s what I’d do . . for what it’s worth.
Use two pieces of angle iron to lay on each top side / corner of the backbone. Weld cross pieces to join the long side pieces to each other.

If you follow the way I drifted here, I envision a ladder structure with only two rungs that will drop snugly on to the top of the frame’s backbone.

With the frame on a pair of saw horses, use a spirit level on the ladder adaptor you’ve constructed to establish the adaptor as being level both lengthwise and laterally. Use wedges under the saw horse feet as needed.
This provides a solid reference plane.

Make up a simple set of telescopic trammel bars from square tube. These will be endlessly useful for setting up the suspension and lots of other things later in any case . . and far superior to the rope idea, I think.

With the combination of trammel bars, a level and a tape measure, I reckon one could get a pretty good idea of what’s what . . or at least to within the original spec of the frame.

Anyone see any holes in that idea?
« Last Edit: Monday,January 01, 2018, 11:07:31 PM by GavinT »