Door removal

[4129R]

I am about to take a black JPS for respray, and I am going to remove the doors so the job can be done properly.

Has anyone removed the long vertical tube holding the doors in place?

It looks like you remove the split pin above the bottom bush, and then either thread a 5/16th bolt in the bottom or the tube after removing the sills, and then bash the bolt down, or you carefully grip the tube between the top and bottom bushes in the door, and bash that down carefully. (rubber and mole grips?)

Is it easy? Is it that simple?

The door locks were a pig of a job, ideal for a gynaecologist ! The clips holding the wires in place on the lock plate have to be released and refitted with the 4 bolts of the lock undone for easier access through the end of the door.

[RoddyMac]

I used a reciprocating saw to remove the doors on my car.  The carbon steel pin and carbon steel bushings like to rust together.  In theory you should be able to remove the doors as you've described, but from what I've gleaned from searching the Interwebs removing the pin is a pig of job. 

[4129R]

No apparent rust in there. The pins look new. I live in hope of success this weekend.

I take it the long pins are basically a tight push fit, held in place only by friction and the split pin.

[BDA]

I don't remember all the ins and outs of the stock door hings, but they're described in the workshop manual here (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/s2work/b/s2b.pdf). One thing that might be useful to know is that the bottom of the hinge pin is tapped 1/4-20. You can screw a bolt in it and turn the pin with a wrench or socket or pull on it to get it out.

As Roddy says, they are prone to rust. If you find some you haven't seen yet or want to take the opportunity to change them, you may want to get a set of stainless steel hinges (includes everything in the stock design) from r.d. enterprises or you might consider Richard's (of Banks) brass hinge that is of a totally different design that allows taking the door off without changing most of the adjustment.

[EuropaTC]

Yep, it's that simple....  honestly   

IIRC you need to jack up the front of the car to get the pins clear because they are quite long and if you haven't already done so, start now with Plus Gas or some other release fluid for a decent soaking overnight. Then get plasters, plenty of loose change and a swear box ready for the actual attempt.

If you take the door trim off and watch the pin as you open and close the door, if the pin is moving with the door you might have a struggle on your hands. Pop in a long bolt/threaded bar to the pin and try a slide hammer technique to start it moving. If the pin remains stuck, I would simply give up and use a hacksaw blade to cut away the pin at the top & bottom of the door.  Depending how much of the pin protrudes above the top body bush you might get away with just cutting the bottom, but be prepared for both.

It's not as drastic as it sounds. It's easy to spend a couple of hours struggling whereas 20 minutes with a hacksaw and it's all over. Once the door is out of the way you'll find it easy to get the remaining bits out of the bushes and 1/2" stainless rod (?) is relatively cheap these days.

Brian

[jbcollier]

If they come out easily then it's time to visit the proctologist to get that horse shoe removed!

[4129R]

The left door had a new pin fitted recently, so with the split pin removed, and a 5/16th bolt in the bottom, and the front of the silver sill prised away, I hit the bolt about 8 times, and the pin came straight out.

The right hand pin was original, the split pin wouldn't even come out.

I got a hack saw blade wrapped in kitchen roll at one end, prised the large washers apart to get to the pin, and about 15 minutes later the bolt was cut through and the bottom of the door was loose.

I decided to cut the pin midway in the door, bend the pin away from the bottom siezed part, mole grips on the bent pin, bash bash bash on the mole grips and the top pin came down and the door was free.

To get the bottom adjuster out, I had to use a small angle grinder to grind off the welded washer, and then the remainder could be tapped into the door. The bottom nut was rusted and could not be shifted with a 1 1/8" spanner. This bit was carried out on the lawn to prevent damage to the outer door skin.

I have now stripped both doors completely, the front cover and the rear engine cover are removed and locks taken off, all badges, lights, bumpers etc are removed, and 3755R is off to 2 ex Lotus employees just south of the factory, for a complete re-spray in black, as original.

One of them used to put the doors on Europas, and the other worked in the paint shop at Hethel, so it is in good hands.     

[BDA]

Congratulations! I'd say she's in VERY good hands!

[EuropaTC]

As we've had a few posts about door pins recently, it got me realising that one of my doors wasn't fitting as neatly as I seem to remember it once did.  I took a look at the gaps and realised that the washer underneath the bottom of the door had worn and needed replacing. And so today was that day.....

Ok, so why the post ? Well, it's mostly in amazement when I found out  that a mod I did over 25yrs ago has actually worked !

Background - when I bought my car in the 80s it had been standing for a few years and the doors opened but were stiff. I remember Chris Foulds telling me it wasn't a job to put off until later because when the hinge pins seized then they started wearing the bobbins in the door apertures, and once they were oval then the job got a whole lot bigger.

We chatted and I learned that the steel pins often rusted in the steel door bushes and once this happened instead of the pin remaining stationary and the bushes/door  moving, the pin/bush/door  moved all together and wore away the aluminium bobbins. He even showed me a couple of brass inserts he made & sold to sort out the problem on his restorations.

Even with only marginal rust it was possible for the steel pin/door bushes to develop enough friction to move together and wear the aluminium inserts, so I looked at ways round that.
In the end I used 1/2" stainless bar with a step cut as shown below. That stops the pin rusting but there's still the problem about friction at the pin/bush interface being greater than the pin/Aluminium bobbin interfaces.

By taking off the front wheel arch shield you can see the top & bottom body inserts and where the pin comes through. I made a rough steel plate with a matching slot, bent in an "L" shape so that when assembled it jammed against the internal bodywork. It's all held in place with a split pin.

It's hard to describe, easier to look at pictures....

Anyway, this afternoon I started. It took me longer to find a bolt long enough to use in the bottom of the door pin  than it did to take the door off !   Wheel arch shield off, split pin & steel plate out,  bang, bang, door pin out,  door off.  As simple as that, didn't even have to touch the bushes in the door.

Lower washers replaced (stainless wearing surface this time instead of plastic), hold door in position, slide the pin back.  Door fits as it should, adjust striker plate and it's time for tea and biscuits. Who said doors were hard work ?    (that'd be me, a few posts earlier)

So anyone else about to replace their doors, think about locking that pin in place regardless of what materials you're using.  It will make it so much easier next time around.

[BDA]

Very clever, Brian! 

[EuropaTC]

Thanks BDA, I'm still slightly amazed it all went so well. The door pins were one of the first jobs I did back in '87 or '88 and I still bear the mental scars from a week spent messing about until finally giving in & cutting the pins.

The main reason for posting is that I'm now convinced the big issue is about locking the pin in place. The friction between the door bush & pin due to the weight of the doors might be enough, even with brass/stainless, to overcome the friction between the pin/aluminium bobbin and cause the body insert to wear.  And as Chris said back inthe 80s, once the bobbins wear you can still adjust the door to close & catch but it will rattle over rough roads. 

We've seen designs for alternative door hinges - brass bush/stainless pin, stainless bush/pin (SJS), brass bush/pin (Banks) but now I'm thinking that none address the issue of wear on the body inserts, they're all concentrating on emlinating the big rust problem.  I even think now the Banks' option would give some wear with brass/Al combinations but that's the best design for door removal/pin replacement.   It's very similar concept to the 60s Elan door arrangement but that uses a nylon insert for the "pin" and they do wear in time.

Brian

[pboedker]

Great idea, Brian. Definitely worth considering.