Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: BDA on Saturday,May 07, 2016, 12:33:59 PM
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I had some issues with charging in the past (I don't remember what the symptoms were) but I had my stock alternator rebuilt and things seemed to work pretty well. My ammeter would bounce around pretty much but the battery seemed to get charged. More recently, I had a problem with chewing up my alternator belt so I filed the mount on the bell housing to get a better alignment. Now, when I drive, the ammeter is pegged at +30 and the battery doesn't seem to get charged as occasionally, I'll have a dead battery. The belt is obviously tight enough since the ammeter is registering current. The plugs in the back of the alternator are securely plugged in. I'm not sure where else to look.
Any ideas?
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If the ammeter is pegged at +30A, and is at 0 when off, then you know the alt is charging. However, it doesn't look as though the alt output is being regulated. Hook up a voltmeter across the battery and start the engine. Rev it up to 2500 or so and see what the voltage is. 13.8v to 15.0v is just fine. more than 15.2v will overcharge the battery and boil it dry.
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Do you have an original alternate with separate regulator and relay? Check these first.
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Thanks, John and Gmg31!
I'll check the voltage. The regulator is built in and I don't think they are available anymore.
I presume that using a smaller diameter cam pulley wouldn't help?
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I would also try putting a battery in it that I know is good & see if it does the same thing, could be just a bad battery.
:deadhorse:
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Are you sure the problem is not with the battery not holding its charge?
If the battery is stuffed, no amount of charging will make it hold its charge.
If you can, try borrowing another battery and see if the problem persists.
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Snap !! Same comment, same time !!!
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Myself, I prefer testing to replacing parts. It takes mere seconds to hook up a voltmeter. Right away you'll know something of your batteries condition and, shortly thereafter, the charging system as well.
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Hi BDA,
I'd go with the voltmeter test first, it's the most reliable pointer you've got and you'll know in seconds.
If the regulator has gone then it could be boiling the battery so electrolyte level is a confirmation check ? Personally I'd not be happy driving with such a continual high charge rate, something sounds wrong there.
Spares back up for older Lucas alternators isn't (wasn't ?) too bad over here so you might be in luck.
Brian
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Thanks guys for all the replies, guys!
The bettery is fairly new so I don't suspect it's not holding a charge. The alternator is a Delco and very similar to old units used on this side of the pond but the connections come out the back and the US version has them coming out the side so the proper regulator isn't available (I'm sure I would have called the usual suspects before the last time I tried to get a new regulator but I'll call again if that's the problem). In the meantime, I'll get some distilled water and top up the battery should it need it.
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I haven't checked the voltage yet, but I just put a BUNCH (about 5 oz in each cell) of water in the battery. How long over charging the batter would you expect it to take to pretty much boil the battery dry?
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5 oz per cell is a lot. The battery may be compromised. Fix the over-voltage issue first. Then load test the battery. Hopefully you're ok.
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I had a bad regulator in a Delco alternator, a local repairer adapted a modern one to fit and it works perfectly. If that is your problem, I wouldn't give up on it but ask local shops. The one I found recognised a European-specification Delco the minute I walked into the shop with it, and I knew they were the right kind of people, they were rewiring a Model T Ford.
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I originally had a guy who does a lot of aircraft avionics and electronics to rebuild my alternator. He said had to make some part and said he got a bit more out of it than it was supposed to give (sorry I don't know the details). It was ridiculously expensive and if I knew it was going to cost so much, I would have told him to forget it. At one point, I suspected the VR (this may not be in chronological order - it was several years ago!) and found one for the US version which has the connectors on the side rather than the back. For some reason, I didn't think I could adapt it.
Well, I found it this afternoon and it seemed straightforward enough (I don't know why I thought it was so difficult!) - just bend the lugs and add an extension! Simple. I'll check the voltage and if it's bad, I'll try my VR to see how it works. If I'm still SOL, then I'll go back to researching substitutions. There are several mentioned in the Yahoo group Knowledge Base.
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The battery may well be shot, all you can do is try it and see. Fingers crossed you've caught it in time.
If you do end up chasing alternatives, a few years ago I fitted a Lucas 17ACR which fits (just) and is comparable output. The 16ACR would be better as it's a touch smaller. This year I changed it again when I found a neater solution, the Lucas A127. Fitted to lots of UK cars and range from 55 amps upwards. Lots of info, wiring etc. on the web - some of the higher capacity ones would seem to need more wiring mods for our cars. Chinese copies are available.....
http://www.martley.plus.com/lotusland2016/europa/16europa03.html (http://www.martley.plus.com/lotusland2016/europa/16europa03.html)
Scroll down and it's at the bottom under "2016 update"
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I'm worried about the battery, too. I'll see today when I (try) to take it out. Thanks for the tip about the Lucas alternator. It looks like a great fit and I found a source in the US! I'll see if I need it.
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If the ammeter is pegged at +30A, and is at 0 when off, then you know the alt is charging. However, it doesn't look as though the alt output is being regulated. Hook up a voltmeter across the battery and start the engine. Rev it up to 2500 or so and see what the voltage is. 13.8v to 15.0v is just fine. more than 15.2v will overcharge the battery and boil it dry.
I replaced the voltage regulator a while ago and the ammeter needle became much better behaved (it had been bouncing around quite a lot but now it's pretty steady) but it still showed about +5 -to +15 without headlights and it pegs the plus side with headlights on. I checked the voltage at the battery and it was pretty erratic. The voltage bounced as high as 15.5, but it was only momentary. In general, it bounced around but rose as rpms rose. I probably didn't rev it over 3000 rpm and most of the time it was in the middle 14 volt range.
The "correct" voltage regulator is NLA but I adapted the one for the US version by bending the lugs and putting an extension on them so the wires hook like they are supposed to (the orientation of the lugs is the only difference between the "correct" VR and the one you can get that I'm aware of). I have two "correct" VRs that I don't trust so I don't know how or if I can compare them to the one I have.
I'm guessing that the almost unused VR I put in the alternator needs replacing, but I wonder if there is something else that is going on, maybe some other electrical component needs to be changed or the alternator is truly junk... The alternator pulley that Dave Bean put on my engine was a much smaller diameter one but I replaced it with one that is the stock diameter. I could put the smaller pulley on and that seems like it could at least lessen my problems since it would reduce the speed of the alternator.
Does anybody have any ideas?
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Hi BDA,
Whenever I've measured voltage at the battery to check the charge rate it's always been rock steady, maybe fluctuating by 0.1 or so but that could be down to me rather than the electrics. I wouldn't expect it to change markedly from say 1,500 rpm upwards unless you have a very large pulley on the alternator. A smaller pulley on the alternator generally makes it go round faster/give higher output at tickover so I don't think that would solve the problem. If you want to reduce the speed of the alternator it's either a smaller pulley on the cam or larger one on the alternator. (think racing bicycle gears :) )
14V is about right I think but again I'd expect it to be constant rather than moving about.
Hmm, what next ? My checklist would start something like this;
1. Does the alternator need a separate earth lead (like the original on mine) or does it earth through the alternator body itself ? If the former, check that lead or make up a new temporary earth lead to tick that box.
2. Battery. I can't recall if you've had a new one but earlier you mentioned you'd had to put a lot of water in. I've no idea if previous overcharging could damage the battery but it would be on my list. I would take it off and charge it on the bench. After charging let it settle & measure the voltage. Leave it on the bench & repeat after several hours or even next day, it should be the same. If it's dropping steadily by 0.1v as you measure, it's bust and that might be why your alternator is trying so hard to charge it up, it even might explain momentary 15V readings.
3. I'd check the leads/connections on the charging circuit, just in case although I doubt that's the cause. Either clean all connections or with the engine running/charging, check the voltage between the +ve battery terminal and the heavy charge lead at the B+ connection at the back of the alternator. Ideally it should show nothing for perfect connections but I'd go with 0.1/0.2V. I'd be very surprised if this is a problem having seen your car, but it's a box ticked.
4. If those check out then despite the lack of trust I'd be tempted to change the VR just to see what happens with another unit.
Actually, if I'm honest I wouldn't change the VR again, I'm so lazy that I'd just go out and buy another alternator ! Yeah, I know, that's not proper engineering but that A127 I fitted to mine has been a really neat solution.... and it was silly cheap as well.
Brian
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Thanks for all that, Brian!
I wasn't clear, the cam pulley was the standard size (the alt. pulley was never changed). The motor was delivered to me with a small cam pulley so put the small on one back on. I also soaked the plugs in vinegar for a half hour or so (maybe I should have soaked them for longer... The larger wires (including the ground) no longer fit securely in the plug so it could be that the ground was not properly secured to the lug in the alternator. I made sure that both wires were secured to the lug when I assembled it with the small pulley. I'm using the original TCS alternator - a Delco Remy unit with four wires.
I should have mentioned that I got a new battery (the old one that was fried was replaced under warranty! :) ). I've driven maybe a couple of hundred miles or so and it needed a little water so was definitely over charging it.
After putting everything back together with the smaller pulley, the voltage between the battery posts was still a bit jittery, but never got much over the mid 14 volts. I thought the ammeter was looking good, but on my test drive, it behaved pretty much like it did before - pretty steady but on regular driving it was a bit over +10 amps (first line). On acceleration, or with the headlights on, it would get about to +30 amps - so it might be registering a bit fewer amps than it did with the bigger pulley.
I didn't test the voltage between the battery + and the big brown/white wire (to the ammeter) - I think that's what you mean by the "B+ connection at the back of the alternator". I'll look at that the next time .
So I made a minor improvement - and I expect a small improvement in HP to the wheels! :)
I'm thinking for now that I'll run it like it is and watch the water in the battery. If I need water, I'll just unplug the alternator and run without it and recharge it over night. I can drive for a day on the battery. In the mean time, I'll keep my eye out for a small tractor alternator.
I looked around for a A127 and haven't seen any on this side of the pond yet. The ones I saw had the 'ear' on the wrong side so that would be difficult to set up.
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but on my test drive, it behaved pretty much like it did before - pretty steady but on regular driving it was a bit over +10 amps (first line). On acceleration, or with the headlights on, it would get about to +30 amps - so it might be registering a bit fewer amps than it did with the bigger pulley.
I looked around for a A127 and haven't seen any on this side of the pond yet. The ones I saw had the 'ear' on the wrong side so that would be difficult to set up.
There's definitely something wrong there if you're getting 10amps. Mine, with a 75amp alternator, will kick up to 10/20 amps immediately after starting and then settle back to just a needle's thickness over the neutral point.
I did a quick look through my notes and found this comment in relation to high charge rates;
"Symptoms here would include low battery electrolyte, damaged battery plates from overheating and/or burned out bulbs. The cause is usually a defective voltage regulator or poor regulator ground connection."
Most modern alternators ground through the body connection bolts but I'm pretty sure my OEM alternator required a separate ground wire. I'm picking up on the comment about regulator ground connection so it would be worthwhile pulling it apart to make sure the regulator and alternator itself are grounded. I think in my case the ground wire went from the alternator to a point on the chassis where the engine bay cross pieces bolt on but I can't be sure as it's been several bottles of vino since I removed it.....
Maybe worth remaking the connections to tick another box ?
Brian
ps..... more HP at the wheels ? gotta love it ! :)
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Thanks again, Brian! For a "lazy" person, you seem to keep pretty good notes!
The funny thing is that mine starts out at zero and after a little while, it goes to +10 - the opposite of yours!
I'll take it apart and with this grounding issue in mind, see what I can see...I'll also chase that ground.
I know I should have paid more attention in my electrical engineering classes, but there doesn't seem to be that much to an alternator that could go wrong after you change the VR.
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Thanks again, Brian! For a "lazy" person, you seem to keep pretty good notes!
:)
Yeah, you wouldn't believe it. I have scrappy notebooks, A4 folders, all sorts of rubbish collated over the years. All because I've a lousy memory; I seem to be able to recall "bits" of things but never the complete picture and so in my job I relied heavily on my own filing system to keep at least an air of professional about me. I'm slowly moving them to electronic these days but I doubt I'll ever throw away the scruffy paper..... it's security blanket stuff.
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I wish I were better at taking notes. When my car was 3/4ths finished (is it ever truly finished?) I finally started taking some notes. I wish I had started sooner. As it is, some of my notes just aren't as helpful as I would wish. I supposed I left out information because it was "obvious" or "didn't need to remember" it. Still, it's something I advise everybody to do when they build their car. I wish I had more pictures, too, but alas, digital cameras were not common then.
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I thought I'd resurrect this thread rather than start a new one. I had a charging issue recently that you all might be able to help me with.
As noted in a previous post, I had replaced the voltage regulator and things seem to settle down a little. My ammeter spends most of time above +20. When it's idling and just a little above, it shows 0. I've been keeping pretty close tabs on the water level in the battery and it seems to rarely need any and when I add some, it's very little. I've been driving like this for several thousand miles including some long trips (one about 4 1/2 hours each way and another about 8 or 9 hours each way) with no issues. Lights, radio, ignition, fuel pump, clock, etc. all worked without drama. One day a week or so ago, I turned on the ignition and the clock was blinking and the radio station was no longer on my usual station which implies that there was an interruption in the current to it. I didn't remember disconnecting the battery but I might have so I reset the clock and tried the starter. The electrics went dead without trying to turn the starter. I tried it again and it started right up. The car drove without incident for a couple of days IIRC. Then, after coming home from our MG club breakfast (without incident), I went to take it to the store and the same thing happened - the clock and radio indicated that electricity had been interrupted and everything went dead when I tried to start it. The battery voltage was about 12.75 volts. I put it on the trickle charger for a couple of days. The voltage now is a bit over 13 volts (can't remember exactly). It starts right up. The voltage across the battery with the engine revving slightly was about 14.6 volts. I checked the water in the battery and added a small amount to a few of the cells but only one of them really looked low.
The wires seem to be securely fixed, the belt is in good shape, and the battery is probably a bit over a year old. I have a new voltage regulator I can put in if thats indicated. After that I guess my next move is to a new alternator.
Comments anyone?
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Just a few points to start:
14.6 volts across the battery with the engine running is fine.
13.0 across after charging just indicates a surface charge and is not an indication of battery health. Turn the lights on for 30 seconds, turn them off and then check the battery voltage.
First check your connections: battery/clamps, battery/chassis, battery/starter, battery/alt, engine/chassis, alt/ammeter, etc/etc. Make sure they are clean, secure and snug. Physically remove the battery cable clamps and make sure they are not oxidized. Clean and coat with petroleum jelly.
Check that your alt belt is adjusted correctly.
Use a hydrometer and check the state of charge of each battery cell. They all should be within 50 points of each other. If not, replace the battery.
If the hydrometer indicates the battery is charged then do a backyard load test. Hook up a voltmeter across the battery, turn on the headlights and crank the engine. If there voltage falls below 10 volts, have the battery properly load tested and replaced if need be.
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On the data you've got, I would have put the alternator at the bottom of the list to check. I would be suspicious if a single cell in the battery was noticeably lower than the others but at only a year old it's hard to imagine it's got faults.
The electrical gremlins seem to be alive and well in your car with those symptoms, I'll admit I'm struggling. It's the fact that it appears completely dead one minute and then starts up the next that's puzzling.
I had an intermittent fault on the Elise when new which resulted in it working one day and not the next. The dealer initially thought it was the alarm system which well known back then for draining the battery. Over a couple of weeks he replaced the battery, alternator, STACK instrument binnacle and IIRC starter motor thinking they had internal shorts, but the problem was still there. It turned out to be corrosion on a plug connector which was keeping some relays energised - corrosion despite the car being less than 6 months old !
From that experience I'd go round the car checking plug connections, I'd re-make the main earth/positive connections and any relays you have fitted. If the whole car is dead then I'd start off with the earth lead and move to the starter solenoid as the primary electrical inputs. If it doesn't work one minute and does the next then it sounds very much like a connection, the problem will be finding it because the traditional voltage drop testing is really for a continuous circuit fault.
Brian
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Here is a wild guess. Check to see if the alternator light bulb (warning light) is not burnt out. Sometimes this bulb is required in the circuit and if it’s not working the electrical system won’t charge.
By the way, I have no idea if a Europa has one (I’m still rebuilding mine).
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Thanks everybody! I tried to remember everything that might be suspicious but there were a few things I forgot. I have painted battery clamps which have a cable clamp held down with two bolts and captive nuts. I replaced the nuts with nyloc nuts and filed the paint from under the cable clamps. In spite of all that, I will be looking for some better clamps. I have a gear reduction starter and very occasionally it will "grind" when I go to start the car - sometimes even if I've just gotten in the car. The second attempt is probably always good. I'll get a hydrometer and check the battery and start checking connections (whoopee!). There is no alternator light (it would have been nice if it were that easy!).
I'll report back with whatever I find.
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Another alternative alternator is the Denso widely available in the US (Toyota) and inexpensive. Works with existing wiring. I made a drawing of the custom bracket I made for it. PM me if you want a copy of the drawing and pics of the installation. I went through several of the Delco's during my 43 years of ownership of 4525R...the Denso one is much better in terms of output, reliability, and size.
Paul
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Thanks, Paul. I'll keep that in mind.
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Well, I checked the battery with a hydrometer and it checked out good. The pointer on the hydrometer got stuck on one cell so I thought it was bad and I took it to the parts store to have it checked out and replaced. It checked out good (so I knew I wasn't going to get a warranty replacement) and when I got it home and checked it again, the pointer unstuck and showed it was good.
I replaced the battery terminal clamps with brass ones. When I drove it around it looked like the ammeter was gradually drifting lower from its usual high reading but I had to put it up before it got a lot below about +15. I just took it out and it was solidly on 0. It turned out, it was just stuck (damn!) and on about a half hour drive, it reverted to it's old tricks and spent most of the time between +20 and +30 - mostly about +30. Everything seemed to work as expected - it started right up, etc. The only thing (and this isn't new by any stretch but I've been curious about it) is that there was condensation on the inside of the glass of the ammeter for some time.
Any ideas?
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Extract the ammeter and join all the wires together. When next standing near a body of water, or atop a steep cliff, hold the ammeter firmly in your right hand. Draw that hand back whist twisting your body to move it yet further back. Untwist your body while driving your hand forward as hard as you can. At the point of maximum momentum, release the ammeter. When you get home, fit a voltmeter. Smiths make a nice one in the GT40 gauge line.
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Extract the ammeter and join all the wires together. When next standing near a body of water, or atop a steep cliff, hold the ammeter firmly in your right hand. Draw that hand back whist twisting your body to move it yet further back. Untwist your body while driving your hand forward as hard as you can.
Lol lol
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I've been wanting to do that but wasn't sure it was really called for! I guess it was a good thing I had all my gauges checked over at Nisonger before I put the car together! ;D
I was looking into a voltmeter and was glad to find one that pretty much matches the rest of my gauges. I'll just need a half round bezel.
Thanks for your help through this, John!
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The intermittent nature of starting continued for a time or two and then it just wouldn't start at all - no power to anything. I followed the hot wire to the ammeter and found out why. See the attached picture. The lug that connected to the spade on the right was in pretty bad shape, too. The negative battery cable clamp was corroded a bit, too. I'll be pulling the trigger on a volt meter tomorrow but does anybody have a clue what actually happened here? I suspect the water condensation may have been a symptom - or even a cause - and maybe a malfunction in the ammeter was to blame but the corrosion on the brass ground wire battery clamp is a mystery.
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Well, that mess is seriously not good!
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The corrosion reminds me of battery terminals, where copper meets lead with a current passing.
The lead could be from the soldered joint, add a bit of moisture and a high current passing, and some electro-chemical reaction must be happening with possibly copper sulphate being the green colour.
I stopped learning physics and chemistry in 1969, so much like your terminals, I am a bit rusty too.
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I just got off the phone with Nisonger. They have a voltmeter that is of the same style - including type face - as the rest of my gauges. Actually, I have a few different typefaces because I'm too cheap to have them re-silk screened but it's close enough to not stick out. Unfortunately, it will be a week to ten days before they can ship it to me. :(
I asked the guy about my ammeter. He said that this was a potential problem with any bi-metallic gauges like ammeters and fuel gauges. He suggested it might be a good idea to check the connections occasionally.
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Going back to the ammeter, one thing that did strike me is the amount of surface rusting on the mounting screws and body (unless that's just the photograph ?). My gauges are pretty much like new behind the dash although the car has lived outside in Yorkshire Pennine Weather for at least 10yrs while I was using it daily and of course had it's share of leaks.
As for the corrosion, it reminded me very much of what you get on a soldered joint when you don't clean off the flux afterwards, the only snag being that they are normally crimped joints there. But even so you need some moisture to get corrosion, so I get back to dampness as being the primary culprit. I thought you guys didn't do rain over there ? ;)
Brian
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Well, it does rain here, but not nearly as much as in New Orleans where I used to live!
I neglected to mention that there was some heat. The hoods over the connectors were somewhat toasted. I expect the heat was generated by the additional resistance of the corroded connections.
I looked at the can again and there is some discoloration that appears to start behind the dash. I couldn't tell if it was very light rust or maybe discolored because of some heat. I tend to believe it was the heat. There was also enough rust on the mounting stud to require pliers to remove the thumb screw.
This whole episode is a bit disconcerting. As I mentioned earlier, I had all my gauges checked over by Nisonger before I put them in the car (here in North Carolina). The car is rarely in the rain and until the last several years, it was a garage queen most of the time. It just doesn't seem like corrosion like that was warranted and the potential consequences of that corrosion could have been severe. If I kept it outside, it would make sense to me but the guy at Nisonger didn't seem surprised at all (I wish I could have showed him my picture!). I met a guy recently who had what I thought was a clever idea. He filled the covered female connections with petroleum jelly to keep out corrosion. Maybe if the connector was old, it might be a good idea to soak it in vinegar before the jelly trick.
Last night I connected all the wires together (The only way I came up with was to put ring connectors on each big wire and I ganged the two smaller ones in a ring connector and bolted them together. Of course three don't bolt together into a compact package. Then I wrapped the whole mess in electrical tape and tied it to an existing cable. It ain't pretty. I'm open to better suggestions.). Everything started as expected. I'm just waiting for my voltmeter to arrive!
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I can't think of any better way to get the car running than what you've done. I prefer soldered joints wherever possible but if your car is like mine then the free play in those heavy cables is going to make soldering difficult and potentially messy if you slip. So I think I'd have gone the dry clamp into a ring terminal and bolt together myself for now.
Just remember to give a loud cough when the concours judges start to lean over to look underneath the dashboard at the wiring.... ;)
(yes, I'm joking although given the cleanliness of some cars these days, maybe not.....)
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Funny comment about concours judges! At the national Lotus meets over here, there is always a "casual concours" or "people's choice" competition. At one of the meets, they gave you an opportunity to enter a concours. I entered not realizing it was a real concours and not the casual one. Well, there isn't much that's stock on my car so when I found out it was a real concours, I withdrew my entry. Somehow my name wasn't taken off the list so when it came time for the judges to inspect my car, I explained why I withdrew (BDA, etc.). That piqued the interest of the guy organizing the concours so he came over and looked at my car. I was entered in the casual concours also and only got a third, but as a bit of consolation, when the club magazine came out, the report on the meet had a mention of my car! It mistakenly said I had a Brian Hart motor but I'll take it!
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The corrosion was caused by a loose connection, material incompatibility and resulting oxidization. Basically almost any pairing of different metals will oxidize if heated and electrically charged.
The aftermarket has a number of insulated junction blocks that will do the trick and look less improvised:
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/rfw-jb57/overview/
http://www.wiringproducts.com/4-gauge-power-distribution-block.html
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The corrosion was caused by a loose connection, material incompatibility and resulting oxidization. Basically almost any pairing of different metals will oxidize if heated and electrically charged.
I think that is what I was trying to say in my post of yesterday.
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I don't think either of the big wire connections were loose. I replaced one of the female connectors so I'm pretty confident that neither of those were loose either. Of course, that was over fifteen years ago, so I could be mistaken or misremembered. If I still lived in New Orleans, the corrosion would make more sense to me. It's so humid there that the air is pretty much an electrolyte!
Thanks for the links to the junction blocks. Those are much nicer. I'll look into them.
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Just a thought but that corrosion can migrate down the cable inside (under) the insulation if there’s a large enough ‘feeder colony’ . . and yours does look sizeable. The only solution is to cut it back to sound wire.
The petroleum jelly sounds like a good idea though.
Years ago, I replaced the non-original ammeter with Smiths one because it was all I could find at the time. While the faces matched well enough the ‘can’ was made of plastic.
I didn’t think much about it and presumed the plastic ‘can’ was just another sign of the times . . . and a good excuse to grumble.
A few years later, I had my head under the dash for some unrelated reason and noticed the ammeter ‘can’ had melted and deformed somewhat. Gaahh !!
I’d not had any electrical issues that came to mind so what caused the melting remains a mystery.
Like many, I reckon I’ll go with a voltmeter too.
The limited utility of an ammeter is outweighed by the risk, I reckon.
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Yup, I snipped off all the corrosion before crimping the new ring connectors.
That's kind of scary about your ammeter. I was thinking the plastic 'can' had the advantage of being corrosion resistant...
I'm liking the idea of a voltmeter even more now!
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For those who are swapping their ammeter for a voltmeter, on a TC anyway, you'll need to connect all the wires attached to the ammeter together: the big wires from the back of the ammeter (from the alternator and from the starter) and the wires from the ammeter to the headlight switch and the ignition switch. John pointed me to some terminal blocks but most of them are rather large and are designed to be bolted to something and there are very few places to bolt anything under a TC dash. I wanted something more compact and I think I came up with a cheap and simple solution that I could make with hand tools (snips to cut the washers and a file to break the edges).
I cut a flat on two "fender sized" #10 washers about 1/8" from the hole and then I bent the other "side" of each washers such that the bent parts overlapped the flat of each washer when you put a screw through them. I also cut another matching flat on both washers which is where I put the large wires (I really should have taken a picture of it!).
I have the smaller wires (to the headlight switch and the ignition switch) ganged into one large ring terminal for a #10 bolt. I put a #10 bolt through that ring terminal and the two washers and clamped the two large wires between the washers using a nyloc nut. The bent parts of the washers keep the wires from "squishing" out of the washers. Then I wrapped the whole thing with tape. It came out a lot nicer and more compact than my previous hack job and a lot smaller and cheaper than commercial terminal blocks.
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Do you have the new voltmeter installed now ? Since your experience, coupled with the comments about one melting it's plastic case I have also been thinking again about this idea. A few years ago I tried to find a "Smiths" ammeter so that the 4 instruments all had the same name across the top but couldn't find a suitable gauge. But I did see half dial voltmeters and now I'm thinking I might just go that way as well.
Brian
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Nisonger, the Smiths dealer on this side of the pond, was out of them waiting for a delivery. The guy I talked to said it could be another week or so before I get it.
I had some confusion about my ammeter. It is branded "Lucas", which I thought strange. Then, I found an old receipt for a new one. I have no idea why I bought it but in regards to the Lucas question, the Nisonger website has this text associated with Lucas branded voltmeters (mine will be a Smiths unit):
Although British cars produced during the '50's - '60's came with Smiths or British Jaeger Instruments, ALL Ammeters were Lucas units. Starting in the early '70's, Ammeters were replaced with Voltmeters that were branded Smiths. A wide variety of different bezel can be installed on this Voltmeter making it a suitable upgrade/replacement for any Lucas Ammeter having a Pointer coming down from the top and it is available exlusively from "The Source", Nisonger Instruments.
Since my car was built in '73, I guess the voltmeter trend started a bit later at Lotus. As for their comment on exclusivity, I'm sure they are referring to this side of the pond.
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My dash as it is currently:
https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-LNHC5cg/A
(please forgive the dust and swarf)
The instruments are from the Smiths GT40 series. Next I plan to replace the Smiths clock with a Heuer Master Time.
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Do you participate in rallies (reason for the stop watches)? What is the little black thing that hangs down by the glove compartment? Did you get your A/C hooked up? How does it work?
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As a little aside, the reason for the Lucas ammeter is due to a decades old gentlemen’s agreement between Lucas and Smiths to avoid competition.
Back in the day, this agreement left Smiths to supply instruments and Lucas to do all the other stuff like distributors, starters and switches etc.
This is why we commonly see Jaguar, Triumph, Lotus and many other British cars of the era all similarly equipped with Smiths instruments but with a Lucas ammeter.
Apparently, because Lucas was doing the main vehicle electrical components, it was also agreed that Lucas would continue supplying just the ammeter.
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Not yet but maybe. I have dual tripmeters to install as well.
It's a ball mount for a GPS/back-up camera.
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Found this on eBay
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F162759273643
Dakazman
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It's all yours! :)
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While I am waiting for my voltmeter to arrive, I took a second look at my "burned out" ammeter. It looks like part (maybe all) of the problem was that one of the nuts on the back of the ammeter that hold the connector lugs to the gauge got loose. If you're seeing funny ammeter stuff going on, you might want to check that those nuts are tight first. Tightening them could be a bit involved. On mine, and I suspect all of them, There is a nut against the gauge case, then the large lugs for the battery current and the smaller lugs for ignition and headlight switches (at least on the TC Federal) and then another set of nuts. It appears mine have lock nuts so either they were ineffectual or they were never tightened when I sent them to Nisonger. Tightening the top nuts will require ensuring the bottom nuts are tight first.