Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Classifieds Forums => eBay - Craigslist Ads - Other Listings => Topic started by: Grumblebuns on Friday,March 03, 2017, 04:47:58 PM
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Found the ad while skimming CL. It's advertised as a JPS but the photos don't show the JPS placard. From what is shown, the car looks pretty complete.
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/6028199409.html
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
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Actually, it says it's a JPL. Do you think he's a rocket guy (Jet Propulsion Labs)? :)
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If my garden wasn't full, I might have been interested.
That car needs everything doing to it, re-spray, re-trim, dashboard, engine rebuild, so a full nut and bolt job.
The price IMHO is too much, as heaps will need to be spent.
I think I must be Banks best customer. Just done a stocktake to get the bits I need while they are still available. Several are not in stock.
Alex in Norfolk.
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Actually, it says it's a JPL. Do you think he's a rocket guy (Jet Propulsion Labs)? :)
Or he's been drinking too much Johnny Walker, the text of the ad says "Johnny player special".
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I saw the same ad and after looking at the pictures also determined it was a complete fame off restoration of everything plus paint. Agreed, too much even at $10K. Is there another way to determine if it is a true JPS without the number disc?
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Years ago, there was a long thread on the yahoo group about JPSs. The tag on the dash is the only part that's different from a TCS (Federal?). I think, but I'm not sure that some of them were affixed at a dealer. I've even heard of someone who swears that they weren't all black (I'm not going to argue but I don't think he's right). The original owners (some of them, anyway) got a jacket and a bag of stuff, but in answer to your question, that plaque is the only way to tell them (maybe an email to Andy at Lotus is the other way).
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Chassis 72112861R claims to be JPS # 61.
3028R claims to be # 50
2919R claims to be #11
2888R claims to be #21
All around Nov 1972 to January 1973.
So if this car is around these numbers, it could be one of the originals.
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my 3638R was #185 (June 1973)
my 2933R is #059 (1973)
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Does Andy Graham at Lotus know all the serial numbers of the 200 JPS cars ?
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If he can't find them, nobody can.
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I spoke with the owner of this car and he sent me a copy of the ID plate with the unit number. I told him I would be checking with Lotus to see if it really was one of the 200 JPS cars (he insists it is).
Got an email from Andy this morning, it is not one of the 200 JPS cars. The owner will be disappointed to find out.
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:happy-bday:
my 3638R was #185 (June 1973)
my 2933R is #059 (1973)
3640 claims it could be #127 but the PO lost the dashboard badge. Without that badge, IMHO is is just another black JPS TCS of which there are many.
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It's not unusual for a user to claim his is a JPS when it isn't. I would say that most are honestly mistaken - probably because of what the previous owner told him. I think some consider gold pinstripes are what distinguishes a JPS from a "regular" Europa. Of course, the disinformation has to start somewhere.
I assume he honestly believes he has a JPS and is not sophisticated enough to know the truth (seems reasonable since he called it a "Johnny player special" and "JPL") in which I feel bad for him since he would have been duped by the PO.
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3640 claims it could be #127 but the PO lost the dashboard badge. Without that badge, IMHO is is just another black JPS TCS of which there are many.
I'm with you. It might actually have been (or be) a JPS but without the dash plaque, it's just an interesting story about the car ("It really is a JPS. This is what happened to the badge..."). That plaque is the only physical difference between a JPS and regular black Europa with gold pinstripes.
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Even if it had been a JPS, the car was still over priced for what is.
Have to wonder though just how much of a premium a JPS has over a plain Jane black TCS in the same condition and equipment. For reference, my old JPS #188 sold for $22.5k a year and a half ago. To someone it was worth the money. I don't think I would have paid that much for it myself.
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/73-Original-JPS
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
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I'm not one who values originality as much as others, but if I wanted a JPS, I would want that plaque on the dash. Knowing it was the right VIN that was a JPS but somehow the badge got lost wouldn't do anything for me. Nice to know, but beyond that, I wouldn't care.
Knowing how meticulous you are, I wouldn't be surprised that your car would get top dollar!
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Although I'm also not a big fan of completely original cars. I like it that an owner spent time on well installed or designed upgrades that enhanced performance. But if a car is supposed to be a "special" model and the only way to tell is a badge......it dam well better come with the badge.
I'm in your camp BDA. No number disc, no special model (despite the fact that it's only difference from other TCS is the number disc).
I lowered my offer substantially because it's not a true JPS. Plus it needs an entire frame off rebuild and the engine doesn't turn over.
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Even if it had been a JPS, the car was still over priced for what is.
Have to wonder though just how much of a premium a JPS has over a plain Jane black TCS in the same condition and equipment. For reference, my old JPS #188 sold for $22.5k a year and a half ago. To someone it was worth the money. I don't think I would have paid that much for it myself.
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/73-Original-JPS
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
I sold my #185 two years ago for $24K (top dollar then) even though the car had some issues and was an older restoration showing some signs of aging, but i believe it got a few grand more in premium pricing because it retained its badge.
My greatest concern and fear then and now, is the fear of the badge being stolen! Of course it would be made known publicly which badge number was stolen, but it's just stuck on the dash and anyone can reach in a pry it off, then i'd be up the creek with a devalued car. I will always be locking my doors at car shows in the future. Paranoid, probably, but cautious, YES!
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Curiously, of the 200 JPS Europas built only about 400 or so are known to survive today. ;)
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Andy can certify the 200?? I need to get mine checked out...2979R built Dec 72
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The car is off Craig's List. I wonder if he sold it? Told him it wasn't one of the 200 cars via email and he didn't respond. I'll bet someone bought it based on his "word". He was very convincing on the phone.