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Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,September 22, 2016, 04:32:33 PM

Title: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,September 22, 2016, 04:32:33 PM
I moved my '72 Europa Twin Cam into my workshop today and started the evaluation of what it will take to restore it. When I bought the car several weeks ago (posted under "New Owner") I knew I would be doing a frame off restoration. The Europa had been sitting in storage for too long and that means surface rust and anything rubber has probably disintegrated.  Although I am a long time Lotus owner, I have never owned a Europa. Looking forward to the adventure of rebuilding one of these cars and getting guidance and sage advice from forum members.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,September 22, 2016, 04:40:19 PM
The under carriage inspection had no major surprises. A couple of bent items and everything needs to be stripped, media blasted and painted. I'll need to do a bit of reading and make sure I am doing the frame off removal correctly. Then will spend the day separating the body from the chassis. After that, its easy ;-)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,September 22, 2016, 04:46:19 PM
The interior is in decent shape. I have ordered a new dash (and received it from CG Autowood) and a new windscreen. I know to stock up on the parts I need because that is what slows a project down to a crawl. Made a run to RD Enterprises (Luckily I live in driving distance to Ray & George) with my long list. They had everything!

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,September 22, 2016, 04:49:13 PM
The wheels need complete refinishing. I got a strong recommendation of a place in Indianapolis called Alloy Wheel Repair Service.  But I live in NJ. I wonder if there is someplace closer to where I live?

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: LotusJoe on Thursday,September 22, 2016, 04:52:57 PM
The interior is in decent shape. I have ordered a new dash (and received it from CG Autowood) and a new windscreen. I know to stock up on the parts I need because that is what slows a project down to a crawl. Made a run to RD Enterprises (Luckily I live in driving distance to Ray & George) with my long list. They had everything!
Where did you get your windscreen?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,September 22, 2016, 04:53:22 PM
This car has very low miles, so I am hoping the trans is in good shape and the engine has already gone thru a rebuild (due to long term storage) and starts right up and doesn't smoke. Carbs have also been rebuilt. Interesting thing about this car that demonstrates it wasn't on the road very long is all the little metal tags on the carbs and trans are still on the components.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,September 22, 2016, 04:57:34 PM
This car has very low miles, so I am hoping the trans is in good shape and the engine has already gone thru a rebuild (due to long term storage) and starts right up and doesn't smoke. Carbs have also been rebuilt. Interesting thing about this car that demonstrates it wasn't on the road very long is all the little metal tags on the carbs and trans are still on the components.

ProSource Glass In MA.  I was promised it was not a Chinese knock off.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,September 22, 2016, 04:59:39 PM
What a nice shop! I'm really envious!

It looks like you have a good starting point. Keep us informed of your progress and don't be afraid to ask questions. There are some really sharp guys here.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Thursday,September 22, 2016, 10:24:21 PM
Great workshop there, you'd never guess you liked Lotus !   ;)

The car looks in very good shape for something that has been sitting around for a few years, the front suspension looks almost as if a quick wire brush and it'll be done.  I think you've bought well there.

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Friday,September 23, 2016, 12:36:24 AM
Looks familiar. I did mine, 2345R, a few years ago, in similar condition though bad interior.
Good Luck!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: buzzer on Friday,September 23, 2016, 02:16:05 AM
Definately workshop envy >:D.  !!!!


Good luck with it. Looks like a good base.

Dave
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Grumblebuns on Friday,September 23, 2016, 07:55:41 AM
Appears to be a fairly straight forward restoration ahead of you. A lot of hours of rust removal with a wire wheel and a lot of aluminum polishing. A real nice car.

When I was pricing out wheel refurbishment locally here in San Diego, the average price was $125 per wheel. Any repairs were extra. Your wheels appear to be undamaged just the clear coat flaking off.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,September 25, 2016, 04:52:11 AM
Thanks for the comments on my shop. I used to own a Lotus Exige S that was primarily a track car and a number of racing karts. Did a fair amount of my own work. When I "retired" from the track I needed to use my shop for something useful. Restoration of older Lotus cars seemed ideal :-)

I found a local wheel refurbisher and had a good conversation with him after sending photos of my wheels. He told me the black on these wheels is not painted on, its a process done with a machine. I'm meeting him today to understand more, but the complete refurbishment of these wheels to new spec is $140 wheel including taking off the old tires, and installing the new ones, balanced and ready to go.

Once I had the wheels off I decided to start the disassembly of the brakes as everything need to be removed, media blasted and all hydraulics rebuilt. Started with the left rear axle.  Found some interesting things. I was able to unscrew the hub retaining nut with my fingers. No capture washer on it.  The studs where replaced on the hub with a larger thread than OEM (all the rest of the hubs have OEM size) along with the capture nuts.  That got me wondering if the hub stud holes were bored out larger so I brought out my micrometer to check. The holes are the same size, just the stud thread is larger. For some reason the studs have JB Weld on them. Will take a torch to them and see if I can press off the studs while hot. Need to replace with the proper size studs.

While I was starting the disassembly of the brake shoes I noticed some metal at the bottom of the shoes. Got a flash light out and found two of the old original studs sitting in the bottom of the shoe. Who does work like that? How does that even happen?  Well, that put me on notice that every single part of this car getting a thorough going over.

While working on the rear axle I re-committed to pull the body off and strip the entire chassis to have it soda blasted and painted. Will wait until my new windscreen shows up so I can replace it and let it cure before taking the chassis off. I think the windscreen add some structural rigidity to the body. Is that a correct assumption?

Spent the afternoon cleaning and media blasting all the parts and putting everything in a box for painting later. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,September 25, 2016, 06:09:30 AM
I've heard so many stories about what the PO did, but this may be the best. If he made hash of easy stuff like that, he probably made hash of something else and probably the most popular thing to screw up is wiring so pay close attention to that.

The bolt holes in the wheels tend to wallow out a bit over time so you might look into fitting beveled nuts (I think you know what I mean, I'm having a senior moment trying to come up with the proper ter).

The windscreen does provide rigidity but it's mostly to the roof and A pillar so it's not necessary for taking the body off.

Good luck and keep those pictures coming!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,September 25, 2016, 06:33:20 AM
Please read the workshop manual carefully.  It looks like your left rear hub just pulled off, not good.  It is supposed to be mounted with special loctite for splines (635) and be quite difficult to remove.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,September 25, 2016, 06:38:54 AM
As usual, John is spot on. An unnamed person who should know better advised me to assemble the rear hubs with red loctite. Use the right stuff and ignore any suggestions to the contrary.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Sunday,September 25, 2016, 08:17:38 AM
hmm, as John says, that hub looks far too clean. Normally you need a session with a torch to heat up & destroy the loctite before struggling with a puller to get the hub off. The axle normally looks a mess after removal with something similar inside the hub splines. 

Indicators like the "no loctite" thing would have me looking at everything else. For example the output shafts from the transaxle should be shimmed in place with no practical movement and that's a critical item to the gearbox life.

Windscreen - are you intending to paint the car ? If so I wouldn't stick it in place. Actually, thinking about it I doubt I would put the new one in until the body was going back on for good, I'd leave the new one nice and safe somewhere.

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,September 26, 2016, 03:50:47 AM
JB I agree the rear hub should not have just pulled of by hand. Everything was greased, no loctite on the spines. Brian, the hub is clean because I media blasted it before I took the picture.

I'm not sure I'm going to paint the car. Still thinking about it. I kind of like the patina. The only thing that really bothers me is the rear deck lid for the engine was reglassed for a crack and repainted. The yellow doesn't match. Now that I know the windshield isn't structural, I'll leave it off and think about repainting over the winter while I disassemble the chassis.

Big question on the paint color of the wheels. I looked at dozens of photos last night and the overwhelming majority of the picture I saw seem to have a Matt black finish on the parts of the wheel that aren't the ridges. A few are glossy black paint. Anyone have the actual spec for the paint?

Equally important is the color of the center wheel cap. I bought all new ones (none came with the car) and they are supplied in grey plastic. The vast majority of the photos show the caps on wheels in the original grey molded plastic with a Lotus emblem in the middle. Some where painted black and a couple painted silver. What is the OEM spec?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,September 26, 2016, 05:38:40 AM
The wheels were a grey/green color - mostly grey with a tinge of green. It had a glossy finish. I'll see if I can find a good picture for you. The center caps are grey with a black roundel in it. If it is painted, the owner did that.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,September 26, 2016, 08:20:15 AM
This is the best picture I could find. The green is impossible to see, but hopefully you can get a sense of the shade of the grey. As I say, the green is just a tinge - it sort of softens the grey. Your second picture is probably as good as you're going to find.

(http://wirewheel.com/gallery/147940.jpg)

Looking through the lotuseuropa yahoo group posts (great group to join), I found some suggestions:


There was at least one guy who said his were black (I've owned two TCSs and none of my wheels were black), another guy said that so few people really know that it doesn't really matter, and another guy said that Minilite doesn't even know the correct color for their 40 year old wheels. I don't know how much I'd agree with the comments above, but they seemed like they'd probably be good. I don't remember any metal flake at all.

I hope that helps.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,September 26, 2016, 11:00:41 AM
Thanks BDA. Appreciate the additional insights. I spoke with the wheel restorer and thinks the black will hold up better than the grey paint. Why I'm not really sure (I sense it was purely due to the paint he had in stock) but considering I'm restoring a drivers cars and not a concour car AND that most people don't really know I'm going with the black.  It was good to know the real info though. Nothing like being an authority on aluminum wheel color for a twin cam Europa ;-)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,October 02, 2016, 03:14:07 PM
Had couple of hours today to disassemble the right rear brakes and hub.  This time it was on tight and I had to use a torch to remove the nut and capture washer.  Pulling the hub off was easier that taking the nut off.  I used my small puller and the hub came right off (once it was warm from the torch). Media blasted everything and wrote down the parts I needed for reassembly. One of the bolts snapped off that holds the brake shield onto the hub carrier, I'll have to drill that out later on.

My new windshield came this week and the wheels will be refinished by next week.  So far no big surprises, but its early in the restoration project so I'm being realistic about what will pop up that I am totally unaware of.

BDA, I noticed on the photo of the black Europa above there are no holes on the lower rear panel for water drainage.  My car has a 1/2" hole on each side.  What is typical?

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,October 02, 2016, 03:29:41 PM
I assume you're talking about behind the license plate area. There should be two or three (don't remember exactly how many) to drain water as you said. I wouldn't expect to see them in that picture!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,October 02, 2016, 04:19:20 PM
These holes are closer to the front hinge area of the door.  See below. Both left and right side, same location.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,October 02, 2016, 05:05:10 PM
Ok. I see what you mean. Those are the access holes for the hinge pins. They are covered up with the silver panels under the doors.

That brings up a question - S2s don't have those panels but those holes don't show up on their bodies...  :confused:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,October 02, 2016, 06:20:10 PM
I'm confused. This car is a 72 Twin Cam, not an S2. As I'm new to Europa's I know enough to be dangerous....... but as I understand it the 72 model year was unique as the following year specials were built and the engine was now the big valve.

Are there aspects of the body that are unique to the twin cam (like no silver panels).
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,October 02, 2016, 07:19:41 PM
All the TCs came with those trim panels. They cover the access hole to the hinge pin and the riveted joint of the outside body to the bottom or inside (not exactly sure at the moment). Here is the link to the parts manual (http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/tcparts/b/index.htm). The S2 didn't have that so that area of the body was more finished.

You may want to take the hinge pin out to replace it. Quite often, they are very rusted.  r.d. enterprises sells a kit with stainless steel parts and Richard at Banks sells a clever brass system that is probably better. If you do, you can screw either a 1/4 - 20 or 5/16 - 18 bolt in the end of the pin to help you get it out.

The TC started in '72, but I think I remember somebody here saying they had or heard of a '72 S2 (an anomaly to be sure if I remembered it correctly). I ought to know better, but I think all the Federal TCs (destined for the States) were Specials and they all had big valve TC motors with Stromberg carbs. The "small valve" TC Europas with DellOrto or Weber carbs were for the UK and elsewhere.

Andy Graham is the archivist at Lotus who would love to hear about your car - and I'm sure would be glad to help straighten you out on models, years, etc. His email address is: AGraham at lotuscars dot com.

I would guess those panels would be hard to get, but since they would be easy enough to copy, maybe I'm wrong. Sports Car World (http://www.sportscarworld-lotus.com/ Google has their phone number as  (972) 620-7285) outside of Dallas used to be big in used parts. After that, you can try the usual suspects (Dave Bean, r.d. enterprises, Banks Service Station. In case you haven't seen this, here is a pretty decent list of useful sites (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1389.0).
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Arizona on Sunday,October 02, 2016, 09:22:24 PM
The early TC's did not have the trim panel, that came with the TC Special. Pre-special TC's were imported to the US but they came with the big valve engine, presumably because the non big valve engine had not been certified to pass emissions standards.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Monday,October 03, 2016, 05:26:51 AM
The Federal Big Valve head is a bit of a fudge. It is a low-compression head with big valves, unlike the UK spec Big Valve head which is 40 thou (1mm) shallower and hence higher compression.
There were other high compression heads on the Elan SE engines, with standard size valves. It's the high compression that doesn't pass the tests, not the valve size.
I don't think any Europas had the small valve engine, but that's only from memory. I also don't think they had Weber carbs, Dell'Orto was the standard by then except for Federal cars.

I don't believe the engine specifications for Federal TCs are any different from Federal TCSes. Elans too had the same strangled engine, with the Big Valve low-comp head. They also have the SE camshafts rather than the Type D "Sprint" shafts used elsewhere, and about 25 -30 less horsepower.

 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: E Paul on Monday,October 03, 2016, 05:48:01 AM
Someone else mentioned chamfered lug nuts...Good idea. But the wheels will have to have a matching chamfer machined into them. Make sure that whoever does the work properly centers the wheel or the shake will be baked in (pun intended).
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,October 03, 2016, 06:58:02 AM
BDA, Thanks for all the insights and information. I had already contacted Andy when I bought the 72 Europa and got my letter and certificate of provenance (see below).  This is my 6th Lotus and the guys in Hethel know of me (a factory visit, track day at the factory, Classic Team Lotus shop tour along with a number of dinners with Bob Dance over the years).  Thanks again for all the parts suppliers, I've been dealing with these guys for years and luckily RD Enterprises is located an hour from my house so on nice days I can drive over for parts ;-)

The question of the side body trim is a bit perplexing as there doesn't seem to be any area that this would have been screwed in (no holes).  How was it attached? Arizona suggests the early twin cams did not have the trim panel. 

And the question on big valve or not is another interesting question. My twin cam does not have the "Big Valve" lettering on the valve cover. Roger, your explanation is another detail I was unaware of. Always something new to learn with Lotus.

I have reached back to Andy to see if he can answer these questions. Let's see what he comes up with.

By the way, anyone know if Lotus Central in Detroit is still in business (under another name) or has any old records of the cars they sold?

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,October 03, 2016, 08:18:38 AM
I believe there were clips for the chrome piece that ran on the of the panel. I don't remember how the panel was attached other than there was a pop rivet on the trailing side of the front wheel opening and the leading side of the rear wheel opening. I think I got a kit for that from r.d. which came with a replacement "chrome" strip and double stick badge tape. I'm pretty sure the badge tape holds up the top edge of the panel but it's been a long time since I put it on. This from the parts manual helps explain how it goes together.

It could be that your car never had them. I just wonder if the access to the hinge pin was obscured some way in that case.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,October 03, 2016, 09:47:45 AM
The question of the side body trim is a bit perplexing as there doesn't seem to be any area that this would have been screwed in (no holes).  How was it attached? Arizona suggests the early twin cams did not have the trim panel. 

And the question on big valve or not is another interesting question. My twin cam does not have the "Big Valve" lettering on the valve cover. Roger, your explanation is another detail I was unaware of. Always something new to learn with Lotus.

Hi,

I don't know if the export cars were any different but my UK spec car (July '72) has never had lower sill/body covers fitted. I think this only came in the UK with the BV Specials which followed my car.

Likewise the engine has the smaller intake valves with a red cam cover, so some did come out that way.

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Monday,October 03, 2016, 10:00:35 AM
The silver sill panel is held on with pop rivets in the front and rear wheel arches, and double sided sticky tape, on all the ones I have removed. The chrome strip is held on by about 6 metal clips which are secured to the fibreglass and the strip just spring clips on to these metal clips, which go rusty.

Alex in Norfolk.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,October 03, 2016, 10:14:38 AM
Hi,

I don't know if the export cars were any different but my UK spec car (July '72) has never had lower sill/body covers fitted. I think this only came in the UK with the BV Specials which followed my car.

Likewise the engine has the smaller intake valves with a red cam cover, so some did come out that way.

Brian

So Brian, what happens to the access hole to the hinge pin? I assume it's there. Is it covered with anything?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,October 03, 2016, 01:15:02 PM
In typical Lotus fashion, it has added lightness - nothing there  :)

The parts manual shows a trim panel listed for the TC, together with the stainless strip but if you look at the period road tests the cars were plain like the S2. My car was in original paint when I got it and there's no sign of anything ever being fitted there.

I think it's just a manual misprint or perhaps the panels came in towards the end of the run before the Specials were introduced. Or even to dress up a "plain" TC so that it looked like the later model and easier to sell the last few stuck in dealerships ?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,October 04, 2016, 04:14:19 AM
I did a fairly extensive internet search last night for pictures of 1972 Europa's and came up with a number of cars that did NOT have the trim along the side of the car. And each of them had the front door hinge hole exposed. While not exactly scientific, there are enough cars like this to suggest that the early 72's came this way from the factory. Andy Graham should be able to confirm this, will wait for his response. By the way, all the 73 and later cars had the trim installed.

With regard to the red valve cover twin cam engine, has anyone dyno'd a federal stock engine and have the actual HP and torque numbers?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,October 04, 2016, 05:01:58 AM
The plot thickens regarding my search for the truth about the side trim panels of 72 Europa's. I looked through the marketing brochures I have from Lotus and found the "40 Years of Excellence" Lotus Cars brochure. On page 5 is a picture of a blue Europa twin cam with no side trim under the door. It's looking like the early twin cam Europa's did indeed come without this trim.  See attached scan of the brochure cover and page 5.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,October 04, 2016, 05:13:40 AM
And another period photo of a '72 Europa from Chris Harvey's book "Lotus: The Elite, Elan, Europa".  No side panel trim on this one either. See attached scan.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,October 04, 2016, 05:17:40 AM
That's interesting. I assumed that all the TCs had the panel because first, I don't think I've ever seen one (even while hanging around the Lotus Distributor back in the '74, '75 time frame) and second, because my trim panel covers up some rather unsightly pop rivets below the curve of the body and I figured all TCs were alike. Interesting that Lotus carried the S2 design in that area (no pop rivets) into the early TCs.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,October 04, 2016, 05:21:56 AM
One final document.  Original Road & Track road test dated July 1972 with the review of the federal Europa.  NO TRIM under the doors. I now have enough data to feel confident that early twin cam Europa's did not come with trim under the doors.

On to some real work on the car ;-)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,October 04, 2016, 05:50:22 AM
I think you just about covered that topic, CL! ;D
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,October 04, 2016, 06:04:02 AM
Couldn't help myself BDA.  I'm a data junky, know the facts and then decide. Just to close the trim panel conversation, one more example. Here is my friend Russ with his bride Brenda and his very nice Europa at LOG36 (he won third place at the LOG36 concour event). It has no trim panels........
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,October 04, 2016, 06:06:06 AM
I'm sure I've seen those, but I just wasn't observant enough to notice.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Arizona on Tuesday,October 04, 2016, 07:54:29 AM
Couldn't resist one more example; my '72, #2069r.


Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Tuesday,October 04, 2016, 10:50:57 AM
I will check 2420R this weekend with added interest.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,October 04, 2016, 07:08:01 PM
This is the best picture I could find. The green is impossible to see, but hopefully you can get a sense of the shade of the grey. As I say, the green is just a tinge - it sort of softens the grey. Your second picture is probably as good as you're going to find.

(http://wirewheel.com/gallery/147940.jpg)

Looking through the lotuseuropa yahoo group posts (great group to join), I found some suggestions:

  • Porsche Metallic Graphite POR723
  • charcoal metallic gray is very close to the color of the 80 Z28 Camaro
  • Eastwood sells a dark charcoal wheel paint that is an almost exact match
  • Eastwoods Charcoal Gray Rally wheel paint #1003Z was almost a perfect match to the original. The original is almost a little green in cast and has a little metal flake I believe.

There was at least one guy who said his were black (I've owned two TCSs and none of my wheels were black), another guy said that so few people really know that it doesn't really matter, and another guy said that Minilite doesn't even know the correct color for their 40 year old wheels. I don't know how much I'd agree with the comments above, but they seemed like they'd probably be good. I don't remember any metal flake at all.

I hope that helps.

I sent my wheel refinisher on the hunt for paint to match the OEM color. He reports back that Eastwood #1003Z is only available in a rattle can? I spoke with a very good automotive paint supplier today and they could not find any reference for Porsche Metallic Graphite POR723. Same with the Z28 reference. Anyone have a specific paint code & manufacturer for the aluminum wheel color?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: LotusJoe on Wednesday,October 05, 2016, 12:57:59 PM
The silver sill panel is held on with pop rivets in the front and rear wheel arches, and double sided sticky tape, on all the ones I have removed. The chrome strip is held on by about 6 metal clips which are secured to the fibreglass and the strip just spring clips on to these metal clips, which go rusty.

Alex in Norfolk.

Chrome Trim Clips (18 per car)
(http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/albums/album13/TrimStripClips.jpg)

Valance clips used along the bottom
(http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/albums/album13/SillClips.jpg)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,October 07, 2016, 07:28:22 AM
My email to Andy:

Andy,

Thanks for sending my Classic Certificate of Vehicle Provenance for my 1972 Lotus Europa that I am restoring.

There is a question as to whether this model year car (1972 for federal export) had the side trim under the doors installed from the factory or if they came later with the later special models (my car has no trim under the doors). Also, are 1972 federal cars shipped with the big valve twin cam engine ? My twin cam valve cover does not say "Big Valve" on it.

Any insights or clarification would be greatly appreciated!

Best,

Glen

Response from Andy:

"The service parts list does not show what models the sill trim was fitted to, but various documents show this was a Europa Special feature.
 
Yes the Federal Twin Cam cars are unique in that those fitted with the S prefix engines has big valves, where as the rest of the world had to wait for the Europa Special before they had the big valve engines. Most publications omit this and state the big valve was only for the Europa Special."
 
Andy Graham
Aftersales Administrator and Archivist
LOTUS AFTERSALES, Units 6 & 7 John Hyrne Way, Longwater Business Park, Costessey, Norwich, Norfolk NR5 0AF England.
T: +44/0 1603 732178 | E: agraham@lotuscars.com
 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Friday,October 07, 2016, 04:26:34 PM
Your ribbed cam cover looks very like a Big Valve front the photo you showed.
What is written on It?  You may well have big valves despite the cover.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Friday,October 07, 2016, 10:09:01 PM
Yes the Federal Twin Cam cars are unique in that those fitted with the S prefix engines has big valves, where as the rest of the world had to wait for the Europa Special before they had the big valve engines. Most publications omit this and state the big valve was only for the Europa Special."
Interesting, but I guess the really interesting question is did they also have the later sprint cams fitted ? I wouldn't have expected slightly larger valves alone to make a massive difference but if you had the cams as well, that would do it.

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Saturday,October 08, 2016, 04:18:32 AM
No, they have SE cams. Miles Wilkins suggests the big valves were a marketing gimmick that maybe added 1hp.

The Federal Stromberg emission controlled engine is a sorry thing
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,October 15, 2016, 08:45:15 PM
My wheel refinisher sent me a quick shot of the finished wheels. Yes, I know they were not originally black, but finding the actual paint code for the grey/green color proved to be difficult at best (although it is available in a rattle can).
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,October 15, 2016, 09:31:12 PM
They came out great. What color will you paint the car?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,October 16, 2016, 08:27:56 AM
I plan on repainting the car the original color yellow. Anyone have a current paint code?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,October 16, 2016, 08:39:29 AM
http://www.lotus-europa.com/colors.html
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,October 17, 2016, 03:00:06 AM
Thanks! I'll speak with my local automotive paint supplier and see what is available.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,October 23, 2016, 11:33:35 AM
I've been traveling the last few weeks so I have had plenty of time to read about Lotus Europa's and in particular the restoration projects that many of you have taken on.

After much thought I have decided not to repaint my car at this time but take the chassis off, disassemble it, media blast and paint it and all the suspension parts, replace the shocks with full adjustable front and rear, rebuild the shift mechanism, install headers and a new exhaust, remove the brake boosters and replace the master cylinder with a smaller diameter bore and perhaps change out the rear drum brakes with discs.  Not to mention replacing the broken windshield and trim as well as the dash (while I have the windshield out).

I'd like to own a drivers car. No show car for me. I want a nice Europa I can drive on the back roads around the area I live (there are lots of places to drive on small windy country roads) and enjoy every moment and not wince when I hear a small stone hit the body. 

My plan in place and most of the parts I need ordered (except a rear disc kit form Banks......still thinking about that) I remove the brake boosters and exhaust system.  I think the PO had special brackets welded onto the chassis for the non OEM boosters he installed. Can anyone confirm the brackets in the photos are not OEM? If they were added I will remove and grind the welds down.

Because I'm removing the boosters and changing the master cylinder, will completely replace and reroute the entire hard brake line system.

While removing the rusted muffler (or silencer as they are called) I noticed the rear of the trans has sealant around the outside of the rear cover plate which means it was leaking.  Made a note when I pull the engine to take the trans apart and replace the gasket.

Also noticed that the rear lower links are bent, the left side significantly (looks like someone tried to jack the car here) and the right only a little. Will replace both along with the bushings, etc. The front lower a arms have a couple of small bends in them too.  Will replace those along with the bushings.  The suspension geometry is critical to these part dimensions so I'm not going to fudge anything here. 

And just to confirm that this car was in deep storage for many years, I found a nest and stash of acorn nuts in the front chassis box.  The right side hole for the brake master cylinder was taped off but upon close inspection determined that the bottom of it had a bit of animal fur on it and something had been going in and out of the area for a while. My shop vac with a small hose removed most of the stash.

Wonder what I will find next.......

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,October 23, 2016, 01:07:25 PM
I think your plan makes sense. I have Richard's rear disc conversion and i
I like it, but I seems that if you're a little adventurous, you could do your own and save some money. There are a few different tacts people have taken - some by members of this forum and some on the lotuseuropa yahoo group.

That is not at all the standard mounting for boosters. The boosters on TCs were mounted inside the driver's side rear wheel. Since you don't plan on using boosters, telling you that mounting them behind the rear wheels (in front of the tail lights) won't be interesting to you!  :)

Front A-arm pieces are - especially, lower - are very difficult to come by so you'll probably have to go with tubular ones which I suspect are mostly made by Richard. As for the rear lower links, you might consider using rod ends rather than bushings. If you use them, I would advise getting rubber boots for them.

Good luck and keep us posted!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,October 23, 2016, 03:04:35 PM
Thanks BDA. I read a number of posts on the yahoo group and saw that I could source the parts needed for a rear disc set.........but Banks has it all put together nicely in a complete package and I know it works. I'm willing to pay for the "engineering" and sourcing.

I've already sourced all OEM parts that I needed. Having owned and rebuilt a couple of Elan's I know just about everybody around the world to find parts ;-) Seems that most of my contacts have Europa parts too!

With regard to the OEM location of the boosters, yes I saw the holes on the drivers side of the engine bay for them. The PO provided the original boosters and the brackets and I read the shop manual to understand where they were originally located. Who ever relocated the "new" ones did a nice job of fabricating the mounting points and the welding is nicely done. Just wanted to check that the brackets weren't used for something else before I grind them off.

So now I have two complete sets of boosters. One set OEM that needs rebuilding and a lockheed set that works fine. Anyone interested in purchasing?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,October 23, 2016, 03:24:48 PM
There's a lot to be said for Richard working out the details!

The PO seems to have done a good job of fabricating brackets for his alternate placement, but they are his own.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,October 23, 2016, 03:52:53 PM
You wouldn't happen to have a clear photo of a federal twin cam engine bay (without the luggage box)? I searched the Internet with limited success. Just want to see what a clean & restored engine bay on a twin cam Europa looks like. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Sunday,October 23, 2016, 04:14:27 PM
Does anyone know the source of the vented brakes front, and rear discs, that Banks sells, for replacement pads?

My front discs I believe came in a Volvo marked box.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Sunday,October 23, 2016, 05:27:11 PM
Did you establish whether or not you have a Big Valve Engine?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,October 23, 2016, 05:30:38 PM
I don't know about the discs but the calipers are generic - meaning they don't come off a particular car. At least, that's what he told me. I believe I've seen places that will take a tracing and make custom pads.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,October 23, 2016, 05:50:09 PM
Did you establish whether or not you have a Big Valve Engine?

Once I used a flashlight to look closely under the fuel catch can I found out that I do have a big valve engine. At least that is what the valve cover says!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Grumblebuns on Sunday,October 23, 2016, 06:34:48 PM
You wouldn't happen to have a clear photo of a federal twin cam engine bay (without the luggage box)? I searched the Internet with limited success. Just want to see what a clean & restored engine bay on a twin cam Europa looks like.

Most of the work done by the PO of JPS #188. The album should have more pictures of the engine bay.

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/73-Original-JPS/jps_8
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,October 23, 2016, 06:43:45 PM
Thanks. That is what I was looking for.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,October 24, 2016, 04:06:30 AM
The Fuel catch can. Is it really necessary or was it a federal requirement that didn't really do much? I have noticed that well restored "show" cars have them and just about everyone else has removed it.

One of my fuel tanks leak so I bought new aluminum ones. I would be interested in the forum members consensus on removing or keeping the catch can.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,October 24, 2016, 05:11:52 AM
I believe it was a carbon canister. I threw mine away.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,October 24, 2016, 05:21:54 AM
I believe it was a carbon canister. I threw mine away.

Jim, I looked at the shop manual and the charcoal canister is separate from the fuel catch can mounted above the valve cover. When you got rid of yours did you plug the vents?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,October 24, 2016, 05:46:04 AM
You are correct, it was a catch tank and the charcoal canister connected to it. I threw them both away, but I did buy a new charcoal canister in case I needed it for inspection. Nobody ever cared so I never hooked it up. I probably still have it.

I didn't plug the vents but that would probably be good to do. Another thing to put on my list!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Monday,October 24, 2016, 10:17:40 AM
I believe the fuel tanks vented into both the long tube filled with charcoal and fitted on two round brackets attached to the big X tubes behind the fibreboard bulkhead, and there were small black plastic tubes going down to a blue catch tank located below the battery in front of the left hand fuel tank.

Quite why they were needed, I haven't worked out yet.

I have both somewhere. I suppose to be an original Federal spec car, they need both, and the "Logic Box" connected to the seat belts which stops the starter motor working unless the seat belts are fastened, and the car also needs the two long bent tubes going from the inlet to the cast iron exhaust manifold.

With all this crap attached to the car, the "Keep it Simple, Keep it Light" philosophy of constructing a Lotus seems to have disappeared under a Federal rule book around 1973/4.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Arizona on Monday,October 24, 2016, 10:56:38 AM
What's being discussed here is the evaborative loss control system. Overflow from both fuel tanks feeds into the catch tank above the cam cover. Vapors from the catch tank then go to the charcoal cannister and thence to the carburetters. I removed this whole system many years, but reinstalled it last summer. The one modification I made was to use a charcoal cannister from a HD motorcycle and mounted it in a more accessible spot behind the swirl pot on the inner fender. If it makes any difference in performance, I cannot detect it.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,October 24, 2016, 04:45:05 PM
I think the fuel catch can and charcoal canister were all developed as a requirement for the US government emissions control of fuel vapors and gasoline being dumped into the atmosphere. Creative solution, but completely unnecessary based on the volume of cars built and sold.

As long as there is no danger to the car or the person driving it, I will remove it. Lots of fuel vapor tubing and plastic fittings that are failure areas.

I'm a big believer of running anything with fuel or fuel vapors in reinforced tubing with real fittings. It comes from years of running track cars.

One more thing to add lightness ;-)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,October 24, 2016, 06:50:43 PM
Parts i have ordered from around the world are starting to come in. I learned a long time ago that lack of parts is what slows a rebuild down to a crawl and is usually the reason most projects don't get completed. You wait and get distracted. Next thing you know years go by and you loose interest.

My last three Lotus projects were all long term restoration/rebuilds by others until I get them. Then they get done ;-)

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: blasterdad on Monday,October 24, 2016, 07:05:53 PM
NICE!!!  :pirate:  (Parts & philosophy).
Which master cylinder did you get?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,October 24, 2016, 07:42:20 PM
Very nice! The lower A-arms are very difficult to get! Those look very nice! Are the reproductions? Where did you get them?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,October 24, 2016, 08:10:05 PM
+1 on where you found the lower arms !!!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,October 27, 2016, 08:36:40 AM
Kampena Motor Sports in Sonoma CA had the OEM lower control arms in stock. Rich has a decent supply of OEM and hard to get parts that no-one else seems to have. I have sourced him for a number of my hard to find Elan parts too.

He also supplied the Europa twin cam master brake cylinder that is bolt on for when you are removing the boosters. There are no markings on any of the pieces so I don't know who makes it.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,October 27, 2016, 05:27:18 PM
My wheels with mounted tires are back from the wheel refinisher. For those of you paying attention you will notice a spare set of wheels. I bought these as my car did not come with a spare. Now I have four!

Crimson Wheel repair in Edison, NJ. He did great work!

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,October 27, 2016, 05:40:01 PM
Crimson Wheel repair in Edison, NJ. He did great work!

Yes they did!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,October 29, 2016, 10:57:06 AM
I'm trying to identify the proper name and part number for the "under panel" that is underneath the steering rack and bolts to the chassis and front fiberglass body. Can't find it identified in either the parts manual or the repair manual (although it does show up in a drawing).

Can anyone give me the info on this part?

The photo below is of the aluminum plate that is on my car. I'm looking for the OEM piece.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Saturday,October 29, 2016, 11:19:15 AM
Closing plate
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,October 29, 2016, 12:04:39 PM
But of course! Thanks. Wouldn't happen to have a part number?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,October 29, 2016, 12:29:29 PM
Ok, this is a trick question, isn't it? I looked in the parts manual and didn't find it (but it could always be hiding in a section I didn't expect like 'Transmission' or 'Exhaust'). All it is is a sheet metal piece that's not quite as wide as the 'T' of the frame and long enough to attach to the fiberglass floor in front of the front trunk. There's a hole in it to let water drain out and the left and right edges have a lip to stiffen it. Even if I could find a part number, I would be surprised if anyone stocked them. I would think they would expect you to make your own, but then in the next post someone will probably give you a part number and somebody who stocks them in aluminum!

Edit: New information
I did find it in the S2 parts manual (054A0201). Then I found that Spyder sells it as an "underlay body to chassis" them with their frame (probably available separately). Richard has them in his parts catalog (http://www.parts.banks-europa.co.uk/orders_frame.htm). The interesting thing here is that the S2 and TC are two different parts so they could be more different than I thought! It seems everybody has them! Maybe it's worth a call to Ray at r.d.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Grumblebuns on Saturday,October 29, 2016, 04:48:02 PM
NICE!!!  :pirate:  (Parts & philosophy).
Which master cylinder did you get?

Rich sent you the small cap Spitfire MC which is the correct one to use on the S2s and TCs with boosters removed. Bore size is 0.70" and is a direct bolt on to the Europas.  Besides routing the lines from the left side to the fittings on the right side done with jumpers or run new lines back to the rear of the car, you will need to modify the Spitfire pushrod to work with the TC rod. It will be obvious what needs to be done when you compare the two. I just finished up the conversion on my TCS.

 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,October 29, 2016, 06:30:49 PM
Thanks guys! It's such a great resource to be able to communicate with people like you that have knowledge about these cars and get real information and insights. Very much appreciated!

I remember back in the "dark ages" (before Internet) where you had to try and figure it out on your own or know someone and wait to pay them a visit to ask questions and hopefully get the right answers. I screwed up more things than I care to remember during those days........
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,October 29, 2016, 06:41:06 PM
I can relate. I started my car before the Internet got going and I missed out on good information back then. A lot of things are so much easier now!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,October 30, 2016, 05:24:21 AM
Yesterday was right front disc brake and suspension parts removal. Then a couple of hours of media blasting and solvent soaking to remove rust and grime.  The brake pads were locked in position for so long they left an imprint in the rotor that I could not get out with my media blaster.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,October 30, 2016, 05:30:45 AM


Rich sent you the small cap Spitfire MC which is the correct one to use on the S2s and TCs with boosters removed. Bore size is 0.70" and is a direct bolt on to the Europas.  Besides routing the lines from the left side to the fittings on the right side done with jumpers or run new lines back to the rear of the car, you will need to modify the Spitfire pushrod to work with the TC rod. It will be obvious what needs to be done when you compare the two. I just finished up the conversion on my TCS.

I'm running all new brake hard lines once I remove the chassis from the body (and after I have the chassis media blasted and repainted).  I don't like using jumpers as its another fitting that could leak. Plus without the boosters, the hard lines will be routed to the brakes directly with only a splitter for right & left side. When you say "modify" the pushrod, can I use the original pushrod from the OEM master cylinder or is there a change in length?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Sunday,October 30, 2016, 09:03:47 AM
When you say "modify" the pushrod, can I use the original pushrod from the OEM master cylinder or is there a change in length?

I dont know if the pushrod I had on my car was original or not, for some reason I doubt it. The piston recess on the triumph master cylinder was different and I think I made up a new front end to accommodate this.  The installation was covered in this thread, ignore the bodywork mods, mine is RHD so a different set of problems. As an aside I've just changed it again for a slightly larger bore (19mm) to go with the bigger disc conversion I did recently.

 http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=138.0 (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=138.0)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Grumblebuns on Sunday,October 30, 2016, 02:44:17 PM
I agree with you that jumpers are a band aid and a source of potential leakage. If you are going through a body off restoration new brake lines are the way to go. My restoration is a few years away so I'm going with jumpers temporarily.

The small cap Spitfire MC has a 0.70" bore while the TC has a 0.875"(?) bore which means that the larger TC pushrod retaining washer can't be used. The simplest way to get around this is to cut the welded clevis from the Spitfire MC and thread it for the TC pushrod.

I misthreaded the Spitfire pushrod and ended up having to fabricate a new mushroom head pushrod. Look at the photo to see the difference in the mushroom tip for the stock TC/S2 pushrod and the Spitfire pushrod.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,October 30, 2016, 06:43:00 PM
Now I understand about the master cylinder push rod.  Thanks for the additional insight and the photos!

I'm focused on the four corners of brakes and suspension at the moment.  Disassembling everything I can, media blasting, taking note of the parts I need to order and then reassembling. I'm sure the reassembly before I have finished everything has a few of you scratching your heads......... 

Until I can get the chassis and body separated (should be in a month or so) I wanted to learn all I can about the mechanical parts of the Europa.  As I have mentioned before, I have restored a couple of Lotus Elan's, but this is my first Europa. So I'm learning about this car by slowly taking it apart, reading the manuals I have and asking questions on this forum and then putting the parts back together to see how it all fits and what I have missed.  Plus, until I remove the chassis I want to roll the car around on its own wheels (although at this time there are no brakes). Once I have the chassis removed, everything comes back off (particularly the parts that can't be easily removed without the body off) and either media blasted or re-cleaned for primer and painting. I have a method to my madness ;-)

Today I media blasted more suspension parts from the right front.  You will see in the photo below the lower front arm partially media blasted with some original rust left on it for comparison (just about everything is rusted under the car). The next photo shows the various bends in the arm. I probably could have straightened all this out with the use of a torch, anvil and hammer, but I decided to replace the lower arms as I could source OEM parts. And the last photo show reassembly of the front suspension, disc brakes, etc. I did not remove the rear upper and lower arms as they will be easier to remove when the chassis is off. And the shocks/springs are being tossed as I have new full adjustable suspension.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,October 31, 2016, 06:36:31 AM
I have emailed AND  called Richard at Banks to get some info on his rear disc brake kit as well as his headers and repackable muffler. No response??? Is this typical for him? Do I need to chase him to buy things?

As a comparison, I bought a huge amount of parts for my Elan S1 from Tony Thompson Racing in the UK and these guys were very responsive right from the beginning including hand written letters with install instructions for certain parts and follow up emails and phone calls.

I'm always surprised at people who are in business to sell parts and then don't respond to an inquiry to buy them.........
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,October 31, 2016, 07:24:01 AM
It's been a long time since I've bought anything from Richard but I've bought a lot. I think I am one of the early buyers of his rear disc kit and twin link kit - in fact, IIRC I had to wait for him to finish developing the rear disc kit. I found him extremely knowledgeable and helpful. That was almost twenty years ago.

Unless he's changed (I would doubt it), he doesn't do email. That doesn't explain why you are having trouble getting him on the phone. When I've called him, I try to get him mid-day (which means about 7:00 am for us).

I know that he's occasionally had some health issues (that I think have been resolved). I don't know how true it is, but I am led to understand that his is basically a one man shop - he has helpers but he does all the real work.

Obviously, I can't say what's going on with him. I can guess that as his success has grown, that he is swamped. That's the best face I can put on it. Hopefully his health isn't becoming a problem again.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Monday,October 31, 2016, 07:39:53 AM
I've had help from Richard too. Best contact is by phone, just like it is with Sue Miller in the Elan world.
Both are super helpful though.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,October 31, 2016, 06:05:20 PM
Ok, good to know that Richard is a one man shop and telephone is the only way to communicate. I'll try again ;-)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,November 07, 2016, 04:40:24 AM
Spent a portion of Sunday with my friend Drew removing the broken windscreen and starting the removal of the dash to replace it. While dismantling we found the number of the car written in chalk on a metal support.  I'm being careful to keep it intact.  I'm removing the radio as my new dash has a blanking plate. Was wondering if the Blaupunkt radio/cassette player was OEM supplied? 

The wiring is all in order and looks to be unmolested, which is unusual in these cars.  It is evident it has never been taken apart.

The windscreen on the other hand had a lot of sealant on it. I wonder if this was all factory applied.....

   
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,November 07, 2016, 05:10:14 AM
I believe the radio was a dealer installed item. The parts manual doesn't specify a brand. The dealer installed a Becker in my car and it seems that I remember that it wasn't universal. It's probably likely that a lot of people installed their own radio.

You're very lucky that your wiring is unmolested. That seems like one of the playgrounds for POs.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: buzzer on Monday,November 07, 2016, 05:29:31 AM
Should also find the build number written in chalk and probably coarsely engraved on the inside of the doors
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: TheKid#9 on Monday,November 07, 2016, 05:31:20 PM
The Radio and Antenna were both dealer install. I don't think their is was a specific place to put the antenna. Either Right or left, the dealer decided. Mine is on the drivers side, while yours is one the right. My dad and I think they just drilled a hole and put one in.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,November 08, 2016, 03:19:47 AM
I'm a fan of listening to the engine sounds. No radio for me. (If you really want music there are enough portable devices that interface with an iPhone that it's not an issue). So the blanking plate goes in. Now I need to figure out what to do with the antenna hole in the body. Kid#9 it's on the right side of my car.

Buzzer, I'll make sure to look for the marks inside the doors when I take them apart to put in new hinges.

BDA, good to know these where dealer installed. Makes sense for US cars.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Bainford on Wednesday,November 09, 2016, 08:54:39 AM
My dash needs re-doing, and I have considered removing the original dealer installed radio/tape deck as well when I refinish the woodwork, but it's an 8-track which just might be too cool to get rid of. I just love explaining its operation to younger people.  :WTF:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Wednesday,November 09, 2016, 09:16:20 AM
but it's an 8-track which just might be too cool to get rid of. I just love explaining its operation to younger people.

 :)  I like the style, it's important these young folks realise how hard we had it in the olden days.....

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,November 09, 2016, 10:47:02 AM
Aren't those tapes a bit bulky in a Europa?  :)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,November 13, 2016, 07:15:59 PM
I got distracted this weekend........  I started to tear down my other twin cam weber head engine that I recently acquired to see what kind of condition it is in.  It had been sitting in a race car project for more than 10 years and you never know what you will find with these things.

The Weber's need a complete rebuild, but they are in good condition for that. It looks like the top end of the engine was done as the cam hardly has any marks on it. Will pull the oil pan next week to see what that looks like, but the engine turns over with a wrench.

I'll send it out to Quick Silver racing to have them strip it down and build it for about 150HP and lots of torque. That ought to make the Europa a little quicker ;-)

I wonder if this was the original engine for 2179R ?

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,November 13, 2016, 08:16:53 PM
That should make a nice motor for your toy! I don't think the Weber head was ever standard equipment on a Federal TC so I don't think it is original.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: buzzer on Monday,November 14, 2016, 02:31:52 AM
And I don't think Weber's were ever fitted standard to the Europa, should be Delorto's.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,November 14, 2016, 03:59:34 AM
So all the weber head Europa's I have seen are all modifications by an owner? I've seen quite a few over the years. Never knew that.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: buzzer on Monday,November 14, 2016, 04:51:39 AM
So if Weber carbs are fitted, yes. All Twincam and special Europas had the Weber head fitted with Dellorto carbs as far as I know.
Weber's were fitted to the twincam in Elan's, Ford Cortina's etc. in the 60's until the Early 70's when Lotus swapped to Dellorto's just as the Europa Twincam was launched.Swapped from Weber's I think for emission reasons, (but just as likely for cost reasons tho). So the heads were originally designed for Weber's.  Dellorto's are basically a copy of the Weber carbs and they are supposed to have a better transition off idle jet to main jet. But a personal preference really.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Monday,November 14, 2016, 06:49:24 AM
They first switched from Weber to Zenith-Stromberg,  for all models.
However, the buying public preferred the look of Weber,  so they switched back (except for Federal cars) and then went to Dellorto to comply with European emission regulations.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: buzzer on Monday,November 14, 2016, 06:53:13 AM
Roger,

Yes you are right, spot on, but not sure there was any UK spec Europa twincam with Strombergs? I know there were UK spec Elans with Strombergs for a while
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Tuesday,November 15, 2016, 01:53:22 AM
You are right, my comments were really a Twin Cam engine history rather than specific car model. The S4 Elan and its contemporary Plus 2 had Strombergs for a while in Europe, and forever after in the Federal version. The Europa TC was too late for Strombergs in Europe, only the Federal version getting them.



Roger,

Yes you are right, spot on, but not sure there was any UK spec Europa twincam with Strombergs? I know there were UK spec Elans with Strombergs for a while
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: blasterdad on Sunday,November 27, 2016, 06:25:34 AM
Sorry the paint code link is no help... :(
I will be painting ours eventually, so your dilemma will become mine also...
Maybe some e-mails to Lotus... :confused:
A brand new big name body shop just opened about a year ago close to me.
I had the manager come look at the lotus for an estimate, two days later the reply was, "The owner said your car is too old/rare, we are a production/insurance shop." Thus wanting nothing to do with it.
I'll talk to some other leads I have & see what I can come up with...
Meanwhile, I sleep better knowing that if I ever buy a Prius & get a dent in it, they will be glad to take my money.  :FUNNY:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,November 27, 2016, 12:49:34 PM
I know I can match the paint by bringing in a body panel they can scan. I have done this before and it turned out perfect for a blend in paint job. May have to resort to that.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,November 27, 2016, 12:53:53 PM
More progress this weekend. Removed the dash and all the instruments. Found out the speedo/tach binnacle is warped so I need to get a new one. I saw a fiberglass one on ebay that compares to the plastic one RD sells.  Anyone buy one of the fiberglass versions? 

There was also a hand written marking on the back of the dash 10-9.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,November 27, 2016, 01:04:49 PM
Spent a couple of hours getting the black windshield sealer off the body. Was that a mess. First I tried goop and that took the paint off. Then I tried lacquer thinner and that didn't even put a dent into the black stuff. Then my friend Drew told me about M600, a paint prep chemical.  It's expensive as all get out ($63 gallon) but it really works!

After I got the entire windscreen clean it was obvious this car had been re-sprayed.  The mystery continues..... the entire exterior of the car EXCEPT the engine deck lid was re-sprayed a slightly different color than Lotus Yellow.  And it was done with all the door seals, windscreen, etc. left in. The interior of the front nose section and passenger compartment are all the original color.  Not a single area of the body has had any repair work.  And the PO told me the car had been resprayed and didn't know why (which I don't understand as his best friend had the car before him).  I'm perplexed.  I wonder what the real story is on this.....

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,November 27, 2016, 01:12:08 PM
Pulled both the seats out. That was fun. The tracks were rusted in place and it took forever to remove the bolts holding the seat tracks in place as you could only turn the bolts less than a quarter turn before the wrench fouled.

They weren't really in bad condition. After seeing all kinds of photos of totally rusted out seat frames I was pleasantly surprised. Took all the tracks off, media blasted them and will need to have them coated so they wont rust again.

My friend Drew (who works on my Lotus cars with me) said this car is a bit strange.  There are parts of it that look like it is a 5000 mile car as the parts are in perfect condition and never been touched (interior, wiring, boot area, etc.) and other parts that look like a 80,000 mile car (suspension and brakes) that are all rusted. I reminded him this car sat in a garage in MN for many years and then got trailered to FL when the PO moved and the car sat (probably outside) and then got trailered back to MN when they moved back and sat in a garage again. What ever the story is, I certainly don't know it and the PO wasn't very forth coming.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,November 27, 2016, 01:23:09 PM
More progress this weekend. Removed the dash and all the instruments. Found out the speedo/tach binnacle is warped so I need to get a new one. I saw a fiberglass one on ebay that compares to the plastic one RD sells.  Anyone buy one of the fiberglass versions? 

There was also a hand written marking on the back of the dash 10-9.

I don't have any experience with the fiberglass instrument binnacle, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a huge improvement over r.d.'s which is a huge improvement over the flimsy stock part.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: andy harwood on Sunday,November 27, 2016, 04:18:54 PM
The PO of my TCS installed a fiberglass binnacle, and it is a solid piece, not like the Lotus very thin plastic one. I have the later Lotus one in now, so have the directional turn signal indicators.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Sunday,November 27, 2016, 10:58:02 PM
Not a single area of the body has had any repair work.  And the PO told me the car had been resprayed and didn't know why (which I don't understand as his best friend had the car before him).  I'm perplexed.  I wonder what the real story is on this.....

It might just have been a combination of paint fade and very minor damage. That's why I did mine the first time around, the car was presentable for a daily driver but just showing signs of old age. I also left the front chamber and door shuts in original paint that time as well, you lose the slight mis-match over the sharp edges and it wasn't so obvious on a casual glance.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,December 11, 2016, 05:59:41 PM
The plan for today was to get the Europa completely ready for removing the chassis from the body. My friend Drew and my Son Ryan were there to help and we got a lot accomplished.  The only thing that held us back from actually doing the chassis removal is we couldn't get the steering column u-joint removed and tried to remove the steering rack to accomplish same when we ran out of time. Next weeks project ;-)

A couple of surprises while disassembling.  The area under the battery was eaten away by battery acid and needs re-glassing (no big deal). The radiator mounting bolts snapped off while trying to remove the nuts. Not sure about how to tackle that issue.  If anyone has suggestions let me know.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,December 11, 2016, 06:35:10 PM
Obviously, the bolt that fixes the u-joint on the steering column is tough to get to and requires patience (and some skinned knuckles). Of course the reglassing isn't a big deal. Hopefully, it didn't affect your frame!

If you're keeping the radiator, you should be able to get new bolts brazed on it. On the other hand, if you're up for a cool aluminum radiator, here's one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPLUS-Aluminum-Radiator-For-Lotus-Europa-S1-S2-TC-USA-stock-/262674592656?fits=Make%3ALotus%7CModel%3AEuropa&hash=item3d28a03390:g:RUcAAOSwImRYSS4J&vxp=mtr.

Good luck and keep us up to date!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,December 12, 2016, 01:47:48 AM
BDA, thanks for the radiator link. That price is very cheap for an aluminum radiator. Has anyone bought one? What do you do about the shroud that is on the OEM version? Do you use the original fan or replace with a modern plastic one?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: blasterdad on Monday,December 12, 2016, 04:06:56 AM
REPLACE FAN WITH NEW ONE!!!
Lotus fans of the time were "puller" fans from a R16 Renault wired backwards to make them a "pusher", but the shape of the blades are wrong in that direction, making it very inefficient.
There are pics of of the adapter plate I made for mine here...Worked great!
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1469.15

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,December 12, 2016, 05:35:41 AM
Did a search of older posts and it looks like a number of people have bought this aluminum radiator plus added the electric fan. Just ordered one. Thanks for the advice. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,December 12, 2016, 06:23:16 AM
I found this old post of mine explaining what I did (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=603.msg9389#msg9389). I don't say it's the best way to go, but it works well for me.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,December 14, 2016, 03:47:42 AM
Now that I ordered a new aluminum radiator and fan, I have two OEM radiators available. One is just the radiator with the screen bracket around it and the other is complete with fan and all accessories (although the two mounting bolts on the bottom are snapped off). Do these have any value?

I know original radiators for an early S1 go for big $$$ in any condition.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: blasterdad on Wednesday,December 14, 2016, 03:09:49 PM
Just my opinion, they are worth what someone is willing to pay & for what reason, i.e. if someone wants to keep the car original, they may pay more.
If they just want something to get them by for a while, then less...
Personally I would ask about half the cost of a new one, or might make a good barter/swap item. ;)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,December 15, 2016, 03:48:56 AM
Good advice blasterdad.

Question. The OEM radiators had a screen on the road side built onto them to keep dirt/stones away from the radiator itself. What have others done to replicate this (or nothing at all)?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,December 15, 2016, 05:29:12 AM
I got some stainless steel screen and made a frame from aluminum sheet folded over the edge - well I didn't make the frame, a buddy who was good with a sheet metal brake and shear made the frame.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Thursday,December 15, 2016, 08:58:38 AM
I used a coarse polypropylene mesh, actually the stuff that's used in the chemical industry to support the cloth on a pressure filter. As you might guess, I used to work in the chemical industry and it was "free".  ;)   20 years later and it still looks like new !

I think it's essential to have something there. The wheel throws up loads of spray, plus of course dirt and that'll make a real mess of the fins on a radiator. If I were doing it now I'd use woven stainless mesh, and probably two layers. The first knocks down most of the spray and the second gets what makes it through the outer layer.

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,December 16, 2016, 03:07:51 AM
Thanks for the examples of what you both did. I knew I needed some type of protection from road debris. Interesting that of the two OEM radiators I have, both the screens are caked in road dirt. You would think not cleaning them on a regular basis would make the airflow for the radiator very inefficient.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Friday,December 16, 2016, 09:48:20 AM
Thanks for the examples of what you both did. I knew I needed some type of protection from road debris. Interesting that of the two OEM radiators I have, both the screens are caked in road dirt. You would think not cleaning them on a regular basis would make the airflow for the radiator very inefficient.

As was mine when I bought the car, or it might have been a mixture of dirt and rust ! 

We had a Hillman Imp which had a rear mounted radiator and a common failing there was to get the fins clogged up with dirt, shortly followed by blown head gaskets as the car overheated. I often thought that the early reputation for overheating was nothing to do with the engine but that most owners of the cars when bought new would never consider brushing the radiator as a service job !
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,December 16, 2016, 05:45:47 PM
I know I'm a bit unusual in that I mostly understand how mechanical things work (thanks to my father who was a mechanical design engineer) so I pay attention to the downstream effect of associated mechanical and electrical components. But I am always baffled by the individuals who are acclaimed enthusiasts of high performance sports cars and have no understanding of the mechanics.

I guess that is why there are drivers and mechanics. The cross over is very rare ;-)

But I digress, will install and keep clean the screening in front of the radiator.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: blasterdad on Friday,December 16, 2016, 05:56:18 PM
 :I-agree:
You pretty much summed up what I was going to post.
I often use the saying, "common sense isn't that common". (Too often). :FUNNY:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,December 19, 2016, 03:55:53 AM
While I am waiting for the delivery of a long 7/16 inch open end wrench to finish the removal of the steering rack (went to 4 different stores and no-one had long combination wrenches in stock) I decided it was a good time to spend the afternoon with the media blaster.  Air compressor humming away, rock music blasting from the garage speakers and many rusty parts in and out of my blast cabinet.

I had ordered a fiberglass instrument binnacle for the dash. Mine was warped and I figured replacing it with the same was not a smart decision. Very nice piece, just need to drill out the indicator light holes.

Some of the parts I finished. Now ready for painting.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,December 19, 2016, 05:22:15 AM
 Thanks for the pictures! Looking good!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Monday,December 19, 2016, 08:35:42 AM
I guess the long 7/16 wrench is for the heads inside the cross-member?
Before I replaced my rack I made some 5/8 wide, 3in long straps with 1/4 holes and brazed the bolts into them.
Now I don't need a wrench to tighten, or loosen, them.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: FranV8 on Monday,December 19, 2016, 09:00:13 AM
Here's mine, shown with the rust eaten woven mesh.  The old mesh seemed a bit fine with low open area, so I've changed it to expanded metal.  Frame is designed to fit into the original radiator fixings and also provide a mounting for the fan shroud on the opposite side the radiator refurbished left off.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,December 19, 2016, 09:22:56 AM
Pretty!  :welder:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Monday,December 19, 2016, 11:13:02 AM
I decided it was a good time to spend the afternoon with the media blaster. 

What abrasive do you use?

I am just about to start blasting everything.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,December 23, 2016, 03:03:29 PM
I decided it was a good time to spend the afternoon with the media blaster. 

What abrasive do you use?

I am just about to start blasting everything.

I use glass beads, grit size 60-80. TP Tools sells 50lbs bags. Item #6700-50
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,December 24, 2016, 03:14:40 AM
I guess the long 7/16 wrench is for the heads inside the cross-member?
Before I replaced my rack I made some 5/8 wide, 3in long straps with 1/4 holes and brazed the bolts into them.
Now I don't need a wrench to tighten, or loosen, them.

Yes exactly. (Wrench arrived yesterday) Great idea about making straps, might consider that but know that Colin will be upset adding weight........
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Saturday,December 24, 2016, 07:46:05 PM
I guess the long 7/16 wrench is for the heads inside the cross-member?
Before I replaced my rack I made some 5/8 wide, 3in long straps with 1/4 holes and brazed the bolts into them.
Now I don't need a wrench to tighten, or loosen, them.

Yes exactly. (Wrench arrived yesterday) Great idea about making straps, might consider that but know that Colin will be upset adding weight........

Ah, but Lotus only employed people with 8inch steel fingers back then!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,December 28, 2016, 05:59:48 AM
Success in getting the steering rack off. The longer 7/16 wrench did the trick.  The rack is a bit too large for my media blaster so Ill need to head over to my friends house who has a huge one to clean it up and prep for paint. 

The special wrenches for removing the door hinge also arrived (Thanks Jim B!) so I will be tackling that too.

There is a foam rubber self adhesive padding on both the front bonnet and rear deck lid body cavity, which was in horrible shape so I removed it and cleaned up the area as much as possible. Is this an OEM install or PO addition?  (see attached photos before and after)

Spent the afternoon media blasting various small parts and painting them. Also cut off the metal brackets for the non OEM brake boosters and grinding the metal flush.

AND a little surprise while cleaning out small areas in the rear of the engine bay......a mummified mouse whiskers and all! 

Almost ready for the body removal ;-)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,December 28, 2016, 06:15:18 AM
Cute (ex)mouse!

The foam rubber on the boot and bonnet are standard equipment. There is one to seal the leading edge of each trunk and another to seal the trailing edge of the rear trunk. Quite often, a PO would put stick on foam rubber in the gutters under the boot and bonnet to get a better seal since the fit was pretty poor.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,December 28, 2016, 07:19:52 AM
Thanks BDA. Any insights to were the rubber can be acquired?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,December 28, 2016, 07:37:09 AM
I believe r.d. enterprises has the foam rubber. If not, you might be able to find a local rubber supplier who can help you out. When I was gathering parts for my car, I got some sheets of closed-cell neoprene foam to go between the frame and the body (r.d. sells an equivalent now). They cut the 3/8" thick sheets for me but I suspect they could also supply regular foam rubber if I had asked. Another place to look would be an upholstery or car interior shop.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Wednesday,December 28, 2016, 08:53:41 AM
Don't media blast an assembled steering rack.  The rack's seals and boots will not seal against high pressure abrasive and will quickly wear out if the abrasive gets inside!  Clean it as best you can with mild solvents and a wire brush and then paint it.  Fit new boots and work in a semi-viscous grease from either end.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: FranV8 on Wednesday,December 28, 2016, 10:06:27 AM
The rack celans up nicely with a wire cup brush in an angle grinder - that's how I did mine.  The alloy casting which is the pinion housing will clean up nicely like this too.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,December 28, 2016, 07:01:40 PM
JB, no worries.....I'm disassembling the rack and rebuilding it. I did same on both my Elan's. Want to ensure the steering is silky smooth ;-)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,December 29, 2016, 03:00:24 PM
My Friend Drew and I got an early start on the final stage of removing the body from the chassis with no major issues. 

When we removed the rear carpet panel so we could remove the upper seat belt bolts I found another number inscription 2358 (see photo below).

I had printed out a couple of the chassis removal write-ups, made quick reference to them to confirm we had everything removed (of course I had forgotten the two bolts that are on top of the tunnel that hold the dash panel in place) and placed the jack stands under the chassis while lifting the body off.  Everything went fine and after inspecting the body from underneath (the middle tunnel area looked brand new) and satisfied there was no damage we moved our attention the chassis and engine/transaxle removal.

The inside of the chassis is very clean (meaning no rust and still painted black) with the opposite ends of the chassis having a fair amount of exterior surface rust.  It was evident that mice had a BIG stash of acorns in this car as it took me over an hour to vacuum them out of the chassis areas. 

We removed all the drive train and rear suspension components and then pulled the engine and transmission.

My next stage of the rebuild is to remove the entire front suspension and then bring the chassis to a facility that does large structure media blasting and powder coating.

Made a list of bolts, nuts, hoses, hose clamps, bushings, bearings and other parts to order. 

Also decided I will rebuild the trans as the rear seal is all gummed up with sealant meaning it was leaking.  Plus I want to soda blast the aluminum housing to remove some of the pitting and refinish it. The list continues to grow ;-)



Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: blasterdad on Thursday,December 29, 2016, 03:20:22 PM
Great progress! (envious) ;)
Gotta love those mummified mice, I found one in ours too, but yours was in better shape!
Him & his buddies had chewed up firewall insulation & turned the bellhousing into a vermon condo. ::)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: andy harwood on Thursday,December 29, 2016, 04:29:46 PM
You have a well stocked shop! I'd like to have a lift, but have wondered about clearance - are your ceilings 8ft?
And is that a Jimi and the Experience poster I spy on the wall?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,December 29, 2016, 05:42:07 PM
That is a great shop! I'm envious! In addition to Jimi, I see several LOG panorama pictures! Are you planning to got to Birmingham?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,December 29, 2016, 06:21:43 PM
Blasterdad, Thanks for the complement. I always make a plan on what I want to get accomplished before I start any work in my shop. It usually works out that I get done what I had anticipated. There are the usual hang ups of unexpected surprises......but then I redirect to make the time useful.

Andy, thanks for you appreciation of my shop. I was a track rat (Lotus Exige S & karts) for 10 years and when I "retired" from track days I moved my track side garage to my house and started restoring classic Lotus cars. The ceiling hieght in my home garage is 9 ft. Just enough for a 2 post hydraulic lift ;-) Yes, that is an original Jimi Hendrix Elan poster.

BDA, several LOG events over the years and the panoramas to go with them!  I was Co-Chairman of LOG36 in Princeton this year. Were you there? (I'm on the cover of ReMarque with the LOG36 recap). I will be in Birmingham this year, but unfortunately had already been invited to a wedding the same weekend before LOG37 was even announced (what a coincidence!). Might be able to sneak away to be at the reception on Friday night.






Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,December 29, 2016, 07:42:52 PM
Great picture on the cover of ReMarque! I didn't make the last LOG. The last one I got to was the Asheville LOG. I'll be driving my car to Birmingham (my second LOG there). I hope to see you at the Friday reception!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Thursday,December 29, 2016, 09:38:13 PM
Dunno what it is like in your neck of the woods but here mice bring the risk of the hantavirus.  Best to wear a proper mask, vent vacuums to the outside and pack and seal debris for disposal.  Doesn't happen often but one chap died last year in our area after cleaning out an old mouse nest.

YMMV
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,December 29, 2016, 09:57:26 PM
Yikes! Who knew that restoring old cars could be more hazardous to restore than to drive?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,December 30, 2016, 04:27:48 AM
JB, hadn't even thought about the removal of mouse debris being dangerous....... too late now but I will be very careful from now on. Every old Lotus I have ever restored has had mouse nests, old nuts and a few dead mice. Yikes!

By the way, I use an ultrasonic device in my garage to keep mice away. Work extremely well and I have never had any mice in my garage ;-)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,December 31, 2016, 04:24:39 PM
Got the front suspension off the chassis.  It was all going fine until the left lower control arm bushing refused to come off. Used lots of PB Blaster,  no go. Used a torch (that smelled up the garage with burning rubber bushing), no go. Finally dug out my bearing puller and between that and the torch the control arm can off......but not the metal sleeve for the bushing. Finally brought out a pipe wrench....nope. Resorted to the cutting wheel carefully slicing it off and using the pipe wrench to remove. That did it  ;D

My friend Drew brought his metal working tools to straighten out the bends in the rear of the chassis. The PO had used a jack in places he shouldn't have and there was bent metal that needed straightening before media blasting and powder coating. 

All of the above was simple until I got to the shift tubes and the removal of the various u-joints.  As most of you know, the entire shift tube assembly must be well assembled with new bushings and u-joints in order to function properly.  I have read enough posts and articles to know this is the biggest weakness of the Europa. Needless to say the removal of the u-joints was an all day task and there were many complications. Bottom line is someone had blind drilled a second pin in the bolt holding the u-joint into the threaded part of the shift tube. I couldn't see it until I media blasted the end of the tube and saw a second hole with a pin. Getting it out was impossible and now I have a broken bolt with a pin inside the short shift tube (the one that goes to the transaxle).  Question......does someone make a replacement part for this before I go crazy trying the restore the one I have?  I've got another tube, but it is also damaged in the area where the u-joint attaches. Double trouble....... :WTF:

Almost done prepping everything for the media blaster to take over. 

Happy New Year Everyone! 

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,December 31, 2016, 05:09:31 PM
Great work! This is the first time I've heard of an A-arm piece not coming off the pivot bolt!

I think you can get new u-joints, but I think you're going to have to find a used one somewhere. My first call would be to regogoracing (972-620-7285). They bought out Sports Car World's inventory. They used to have a very good supply of used parts. After that, I'd check with Ray at r.d. and Dave Bean. You never know but Richard may make a replacement! You could post on the yahoo group - somebody may have one lying around. And then there's always ebay.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: blasterdad on Saturday,December 31, 2016, 07:41:52 PM
I feel ya, the DPO of ours did some "amazing" things to ours too. ::)
I'll keep an eye out on this end for linkages...
Great pics & progress, keep 'em both coming in 2017.
HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,January 01, 2017, 02:20:42 PM
i am removing the evaborative loss control system which includes the fuel catch canister (the long cylinder above the twin cam valve cover). That means I will be grinding off the brackets welded onto the cross bar in the engine bay that holds the cylinder.

Figured before I grind off perfectly good brackets on the cross bar I should ask If someone has a cross bar (in very good condition) that has bad brackets that wants to trade me for mine ?

I also have the catch can available (in excelllent condition) for sale.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,January 02, 2017, 05:08:51 PM
I needed to dismantle a few more chassis parts in order to bring everything to the professional media blaster.  Spent the afternoon removing the rear bearing housings from the half shafts and rear radius arms. Of course I didn't have a long enough three arm puller so a quick trip to the local Harbor Freight store to snag an 8 inch puller (just long enough).  I had tried to use my hydraulic press, but the radius arm and axle/half shaft kept getting in the way along with me working alone and not being able to hold everything in place. The puller worked like a charm.

A couple of the threaded holes in the hub are stripped and one of the bolts broke off inside the casting so I have some work to do on these.  Plus I'm replacing all the bearings. 

Big shout out to Serge and his Europa restoration videos! I watch a few of them last night (Accidentally found out about them by hitting the wrong category of this web site and his video link appeared).  The video of him using helicoil inserts made up my mind to do this to mine. 

Media blasted my hubs and was startled when the left one showed was I thought was a huge crack along the hub.  After pulling it out of the cabinet and looking at it closely in the light I realized it was just an overlap of casting from the mold......not a crack (whew!).

Removed the transaxle mounting bracket from the transaxle.

I'm now ready to transport all the chassis parts to the professional large capacity media blasting service this coming weekend and then take everything to the powder coater.  Luckily they are very close to each other and only 20 minutes from my house so not a big deal in getting it all done over the next week or two.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,January 02, 2017, 05:44:27 PM
Are you sure that the "overlap" isn't a cold shut? I believe someone on this forum had that problem and the bearing carrier (upright) broke. I might try to carefully grind out the "overlap" and if the line doesn't go away, I would either look to repair it (if welding wrought aluminum is a good plan) or get another. If you can't determine if it is a cold shut, maybe a machinist or professor at a mechanical engineering school could help you decide. They are still available and one guy - maybe the guy whose upright broke - had a new one cast. I don't know the particulars but maybe he has or can recreate the mold or a mold can be taken from your upright if it is a goner.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,January 02, 2017, 06:16:15 PM
BDA, had to look up "cold shut" and realized it was what I had described, a cold overlap. I did a fairly close inspection of the entire bearing carrier from all sides and couldn't determine any issues. I'll show it to my friend Drew who is very knowledgeable about these things. I also work with a guy who has a PHD in metallurgy so I'll let him look at. Based upon their input I might take a grinder to it......

Thanks for your comment. Made me pay more attention!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,January 02, 2017, 08:32:58 PM
Sorry I didn't define "cold shut" for you. I wouldn't have thought that that wouldn't be problem in a production vehicle. One would have thought QC would have caught it, but then at the time, Lotus wasn't known for their quality control - rather they were known for their lack of quality control.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,January 02, 2017, 10:56:32 PM
BDA, had to look up "cold shut" and realized it was what I had described, a cold overlap. I did a fairly close inspection of the entire bearing carrier from all sides and couldn't determine any issues. I'll show it to my friend Drew who is very knowledgeable about these things. I also work with a guy who has a PHD in metallurgy so I'll let him look at. Based upon their input I might take a grinder to it......

Thanks for your comment. Made me pay more attention!
Personally I'd take a light surface grind to see if it disappeared in a 0.010" grind but another simple alternative for DIY is dye penetrant testing. Basically you clean the surface with solvent, spray on a thin dye and leave for a 10-20 minutes. Opinions on time vary but longer is generally safer than shorter because the dye soaks into any cracks. Re-clean the surface with the solvent until no dye remains and spray a white "developer" which is very much like talc which causes any remaining dye to seep out as obvious red marks.

It's not as accurate as other NDT methods but used to be industry standard for simple inspection on non-magnetic metals and if done properly will at least draw your attention to the area. I have no idea how much the kits cost these days (cleaner/dye/developer aerosols) but they can't be that much. (and you get to play at being hi-tech  ;)  )

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Tuesday,January 03, 2017, 04:26:57 AM
Interesting that you're having the chassis powder coated.
There have been several instances to my knowledge of powder coating developing cracks and letting moisture in, resulting in a rusted chassis under what looks perfect.
Has powder coating improved a lot?
I'd prefer a flexible paint, indeed I painted mine when I rebuilt it, but I do wonder.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,January 03, 2017, 05:30:13 AM
EuropaTC, might end up doing a die test. Will see what my resident experts say.

Roger, there are lots of negative comments on many car web sites regarding using powder coating on a chassis. I have my restored '64 Elan S1 chassis powder coated and it is fine. Of course these are primarily "fair weather" cars and typically won't see much wet weather or road salt. The biggest consideration for me is that powder coating can adhere to places a brush or spray paint can't get to. Despite the detractors, I'm sticking with powder coating.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,January 03, 2017, 11:34:03 AM
Spoke with my friend who has a PHD in metallurgy and showed him the bearing carrier. First thing he asked was if this casting was from a sand mold. Then he asked about the orientation of the upright and what was connected to it along with the type of stress and loads on it.

We had a conversation about how aluminum stresses and what it looks like. He was very confident that the overlay was not an issue and because there was no evidence of any cracks what so ever I should not be worried about the integrity of the upright.

When I mentioned the suggestion of grinding the overlap to determine if there was cracking below it he didn't think that was worth my time. You would see the crack in other places, not just below the overlay.

I will still show the piece to my other friend who restores high end pre-war racing cars and see what he thinks.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,January 03, 2017, 12:37:15 PM
Your metallurgist friend seems like the kind of expert you'd want and he certainly has the credentials you'd want and I don't, but I'm a little surprised that he would ask if the upright is sand cast.

Here is where I readily admit that my mechanical engineering degree was awarded in 1980 and I only spent a few years as an engineer and none in metallurgy or similar field.  I would think the three ways that part was likely be made is from a forging, a sand casting, or a die casting. Unless there is machining or similar operations (and there aren't in this case), die castings have a fine line where the mold pieces join and are very smooth, forgings usually have a rather broad joint mark. Sand castings and forgings generally have a rougher finish, sand castings may or may not have a line from mold joints and if it does, they are generally thin. It's really a bit more complicated than that, but that is generally how I can tell between the manufacturing processes for pieces of that era. Given that, it is obvious to me that the uprights are sand cast and in my experience when I was racing (back in the dark ages), that seemed to be the most common method of making parts like that. I would have thought he would have figured that out for himself.

All I saw was a picture and he saw the part so I'm not trying to say he's wrong, but if it is a cold shut, that would mean that there would be a "crack" between two parts of the upright. Basically, molten aluminum solidified on top of aluminum that had cooled enough so that there was not a continuous flow of aluminum. From your description of it as an "overlap", there is at least superficial evidence of a cold shut. I'm a bit surprised that he's not more curious about what is below that "overlap."

All this is a long way of saying your friend may be of a more theoretical stripe and possibly more concerned with crystal structure, etc. This is not meant to be a criticism of him in the least. PhDs can sometimes be very immersed in the theoretical at the expense of more practical or real life knowledge. On the other hand, he could be right on the money. Like I said, he actually saw the part, he has much more experience with materials, and for all I know, he has substantial real-world practical experience. I'm just a guy who knows a little about a few things (and some of what I actually know may be correct!) and am taking this opportunity to tell you everything I know about a few of them (and I can do that in a few paragraphs! :) ).  I think another opinion or two is called for. It would make for a really bad day if your upright broke while you were in a fast sweeper in a country road in the woods! I know I would feel a lot better if you followed Brian's advice above.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Tuesday,January 03, 2017, 01:59:47 PM
Basically, molten aluminum solidified on top of aluminum that had cooled enough so that there was not a continuous flow of aluminum. From your description of it as an "overlap", there is at least superficial evidence of a cold shut. I'm a bit surprised that he's not more curious about what is below that "overlap."

Well, for someone who says he doesn't know that much about casting, I'd say your description is pretty much spot on.

/non-lotus ramble - fast forward here.....    ;)

My first job after university was in a foundry where we cast ships propellers in sand/cement molds. One thing we were very concerned about was metal and mold temperatures plus the feed rate of molten metal when casting. If you had something go wrong, like unequal feeding or a ladle delayed, etc, then one danger was getting defects exactly as you describe, usually at the thinner tips of the blades where the chilling effect was greatest.

Normally it would only be present at the surface because the bulk of molten metal arriving "late" would re-melt the core, so it was usually structurally ok because of design safety factors.  But there would always be the possibility of fatigue from a surface defect, plus of course it didn't look good to a customer so invariably we'd weld the casting if it didn't polish out.

Later  I had a passing interest/responsibility in PV Inspection. If an inspector got me involved with "is this a crack or just a surface defect ?" I'd invariably get it removed. Firstly because if my guess at surface defect was wrong it was backside covering and I might save myself future embarrassment.  Secondly it was far easier to explain to any insurance/external authority that "it's gone, it's not there to worry about any more" rather than go into great depth to academically prove something that two minutes with a grinder/welder would resolve.....   yep, dead lazy, I hated writing reports....   :)
//end of ramble
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,January 03, 2017, 05:04:46 PM
Well guys, I'm not an engineer (but my father was a mechanical design engineer for very large scale close tolerance custom designed mechanical equipment.He would take me to the mills to show me the molten iron pours into molds. He taught me the basics) so I can't dispute your well written commentary. I will say my friend was asking me to confirm it was a sand casting (although I suspect he knew it right away).

More to the point (and confirming BDA's comment) my friend held the upright in his hands, closely looked at the overlap and then inspected the areas around the overlap.

Appreciate your enthusiasm and effort to solve problems remotely, but as you can expect some things get lost in translation. Which is my fault as I did not provide a detailed review of all the comments my friend made on castings and what happens when they get stressed and how to determine if there is a flaw.

Never the less, I always learn something from everyone's view point and expertise. I just might take a grinder to the overlap.........
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,January 03, 2017, 05:05:21 PM
Quote
Well, for someone who says he doesn't know that much about casting, I'd say your description is pretty much spot on.

And the parts I don't know are the parts that you know. I know that cold shuts are bad, but I don't know much beyond that.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,January 03, 2017, 05:21:45 PM
Quote
Appreciate your enthusiasm and effort to solve problems remotely, but as you can expect some things get lost in translation. Which is my fault as I did not provide a detailed review of all the comments my friend made on castings and what happens when they get stressed and how to determine if there is a flaw. 

If there is  fault to be assigned, it's not yours. We can only convey so much in a post. Replying from the other side of your computer can be dangerous in many ways. I guess I'm operating out of the same abundance of caution that Brian described and at least a part of that caution comes from my very imperfect knowledge of the situation in particular and casting in general.

As long as your safe, I'm happy!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,January 03, 2017, 05:41:28 PM
Another thought. We are using the term "cold shut" when that maybe an incorrect assumption. It could be a defect in the mold for the casting and it has a slight aberration ?  Anything is possible.....
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,January 03, 2017, 05:45:27 PM
That's exactly right! And from Brian's post, even if it is a cold shut, it may not be serious.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,January 03, 2017, 06:40:17 PM
I couldn't help myself........went out to my shop and removed the bearings from the hub upright.  Wanted to see inside of the casting.  Cleaned it up and shot some detailed photos. I don't think I have a problem with a "cold Shut".....but I do have a problem with one of the bearing collars that broke. 

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Runningwild on Tuesday,January 03, 2017, 06:49:45 PM
I had Richard at Banks recondition a set of bearing carriers for me. Came out great
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,January 03, 2017, 08:03:27 PM
At the risk of...  :deadhorse:

I see what you mean. From these  pictures, it looks like the area where the line is is smooth and there is no crack there. From what I see, it appears to be a mold issue and not a real problem. (Just so you don't think I'm an alarmist, here is the thread about the guy I was thinking about when this topic got started. He did not have a cold shut like I thought but rather an inclusion which is an impurity in the molten metal used in the casting: http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1718.msg15850#msg15850).

I don't know what Richard charges to recondition your upright (if it really needs it - there might be enough surface for the bearing to seat against) but I would certainly trust him to do a fabulous job; not to mention advise you as to whether he needs to work on it or not. I would also expect there are people on this side of the pond who can do it, too. I don't know who that would be but from what I've read from their website, there's an operation in Virginia that does some very nice restorations named White Post Restorations (http://whitepost.com/). From what they say they can get it done. You might ask Ray at r.d. enterprises or Dave Bean. I suspect at least one of those guys could help you out.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Tuesday,January 03, 2017, 11:39:26 PM
Lighting makes all the difference.....    :)

The reason I posted before was that in the initial photo the defect looked to have a sharp jagged edge and that's traditional crack style. An unusual orientation because you'd expect it to start from either end but there's always the potential for a defect such as BDA described forming an initiation point. With lighting in the other direction, it looks solid metal.

As for the bearing seat, that's odd. Not enough metal in the casting ? Central core moved ? who knows, it might even be down to an exuberant DPO !

Practically I think only one bearing is locked in position, the other is free to move along the carrier and constrained by the middle spacer when it's all bolted up tight. I'd think you've got sufficient metal there to seat the bearing but from the photos I'd guess that's the moveable side that's damaged so maybe the bearing never meets that surface ? 

No idea why it's there, maybe the spacer collapsed or the wrong length was used in a previous life ? 

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,January 04, 2017, 03:40:27 AM
BDA & EuropaTC, I figured more detailed photos would provide a different perspective.
Glad we are all in agreement  :beerchug:

The bearing seat collar is a different story. No broken metal parts inside the upright. Bearings in decent condition. Not sure what happened here, but considering the PO had some other rebuild issues I'm suspect of a backyard mechanic that doesn't really understand what they are doing. Remember in my earlier posts I mentioned the left hub and retaining nut came off with my hand.

I have another pair of uprights that I will disassemble and inspect for use. A couple of months ago I found a 72 Europa TC for sale that someone was building as a race car project and gave up. Stored in a dry barn for 10 years. Made a silly offer and it was accepted. Once I got it stripped it of all the parts I wanted to keep (weber head engine completely rebuilt with new bearings, cams, Pistons, rods, etc., 4 speed 352 transaxle, rear drive train parts (including uprights, axles & half shafts), front uprights and axles, etc.) sold the body, chassis and wheels. I knew the cost of replacement parts and the difficulty is finding them so I figured it wouldn't hurt to have them at hand just in case. The big plus was the weber head TC. I'm a past track guy, always have a spare engine and trans in your garage  8)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,January 04, 2017, 05:34:26 AM
With those spares and that Weber head, I'd say you're in good shape! I think you're going to end up with a great car! Now, if you could just find an ashtray!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,January 04, 2017, 05:43:43 AM
I found an ashtray ........negotiating the price at the moment.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,January 04, 2017, 05:47:33 AM
You're kidding!! Congratulations!!  :pirate: :pirate: :trophy: :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Wednesday,January 04, 2017, 07:07:00 AM
The outer rear wheel bearing is held in place.  The inner rear wheel bearing is located by the bearing spacer, it does not seat against the housing.  It is not uncommon for the end of the machined bore for the inner bearing to be incomplete.

Lotus could never have been accused of having an artisan foundry.  Cheap and cheerful being the order of the day.  In these days of CNC, it would be nice to have them remade from solid.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,January 05, 2017, 03:50:41 AM
JB, are you suggesting the bearing collar is ok to use that way?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Thursday,January 05, 2017, 08:51:03 AM
Yes, the upright is just fine as long as the bearings are not loose in their bores.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,January 07, 2017, 12:12:43 PM
Delivered my chassis and assorted parts to the media blasting company to strip off all the old paint and surface rust.  Of course it started snowing just as I was getting the chassis into the truck.  Will have it back next week and then off to the powder coater.

When I returned to my garage I tackled the disassembly of my other set of spare uprights, bearings, stub axles and half shafts in order to see what condition the uprights were in.  Was pleasantly surprised after media blasting the right and left sides.  Both are in good condition.  Now I have two sets although one of the uprights has a bearing collar that has some damage. JB suggests its not an issue as long as the bearing is tight in the bore.



Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,January 10, 2017, 03:09:07 AM
Nice snow fall this weekend. Light and fluffy because it's 20 degree's outside. Just enough to look nice but not enough to make it great skiing or shut everything down.  My other 72 Europa (which is a shell) that is sold but waiting for pickup got it's first taste of snow in many years.

The big news is my ashtray arrived  :))  Now all I have to do is restore it. Carefully.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: andy harwood on Tuesday,January 10, 2017, 05:14:06 AM
The parts TCS car I had came with a ash tray that appeared much like yours looks. I just buffed the parts on a sewn buffing wheel. The bakelite ashtray came out really well - smooth & shiny - with little polishing. I don't remember what compound the wheel was impregnated with. Thought I still had some photos, but must have deleted after I sold ashtray.
hth
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Grumblebuns on Tuesday,January 10, 2017, 07:25:09 AM
Glen, did the ashtray come with a spring metal retaining clip? The clip serves a dual purpose of securing the ashtray to the metal holder and a spot to extinguish the cigarette. It's not essential but the ashtray is not complete without it.

My restoration plan for the ashtray shown is to first remove the rust in vinegar or molasses/water solution then polish and seal the metal. There will probably be some pitting, hope it's not too bad. For the bakelite, use plastic polish by hand or Dremel.

Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,January 10, 2017, 09:08:04 AM
If you can take the ashtray apart, you might be able to have the metal bits plated. Obviously, if there's pitting, that could be a problem. There are amazing chrome paints available now. I saw one demonstrated on Jay Leno's Garage a few years ago. It was amazing stuff. It was water based and required zero skill (no runs, sags, orange peel, etc. no matter how poorly you sprayed it). I couldn't find that video but I found this one which looks like it might be the same product (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9-wFTUhpT4). I didn't find a supplier right away so I don't know the price. It might be expensive enough that you'd want to line up some bumpers and other parts to make it worth while. Eastwood also a kit that doesn't look quite as good to my eye. I found this video where a guy rates rattle can chrome paints and a couple are actually pretty good (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL4IYoxJqu4). You should be able to take care of the pits and then paint it with Spaz Stix or VHT Metal Finish and have reasonable results. You can do a search on youtube for "spray chrome paint" and find several videos on chrome paints of varying quality and you can judge for yourself. When I started this post, I didn't realize there would be so much out there on this!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,January 10, 2017, 04:18:38 PM
Andy, Joji and BDA, thanks for the input and suggestions. The ashtray did not come with the spring clip (ugh.....another part to find). I don't smoke and don't know anyone who does. I might just glue the damn thing in after I restore it  :FUNNY:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Sherman Kaplan on Tuesday,January 10, 2017, 08:35:01 PM
For the ashtray itself a great product is "Great Knobs"  It is made by a guy who restores vintage fountain pens.  He also has an MG TC. The product is great for bakelite or any hard rubber item, such as knobs and switches.

By the way, my ashtray is also missing the spring metal piece.  If you find a stash of them please let me know!

Regards,
Sherman

http://pensburymanor.com/pensburymanor/Pensbury_Garage.html

GREAT   KNOBS!
Black Hard Rubber Color  Restorer
Now you can bring back the deep black color and  luster your black hard rubber dashboard knobs and switches once enjoyed when they were young and perky  by using Pensbury Manor's  GREAT  KNOBS!  to reblacken the oxidized, faded and browned out color that time and exposure to the elements has caused!  GREAT  KNOBS!  uses the very coloring agent that was used when the knobs were originally made.  Pensbury Manor's   GREAT KNOBS!  is a dye that penetrates the rubber surface pores and bonds with the original rubber in a most satisfactory way.  It is a water based, black liquid dye that bonds with rubber but will not bond with the metal so clean up is a snap.   The resulting restored color can be hand  buffed to a very high sheen as you can see in the after picture below.  GREAT KNOBS! comes in 1 and 2 oz. bottles - enough to restore from 25-50 normal size knobs and switches.
So simple to use!  Just brush it on, let it dry and buff lightly and you’ll have some really  GREAT KNOBS!
ALSO GREAT FOR BRAKE HANDLES, SHIFT KNOBS, DOOR HANDLES, HORN BUTTONS, BAKELITE ITEMS, MANY PLASTICS , VINYLS, PLUS MORE!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,January 11, 2017, 02:37:55 AM
Thanks Britcar! I was unaware of this product and ordered a small bottle. If I find a stash of springs will let you know.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: pboedker on Wednesday,January 11, 2017, 03:04:21 AM
The ash tray in my car was also missing the spring clip (and still is). That has the positive effect that the ash tray can now be used as a finely calibrated device: If it jumps out of the holder on full acceleration from standstill, I know that the engine is OK and at its normal level of 'Umph!'.
 :pirate:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: phil on Wednesday,January 11, 2017, 07:12:38 AM
Hello,
I too spent a long time to get an ash-tray, I had one already but it did not have the elusive spring clip fitted, my new one does however.
Did one come with yours?

Phil
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Grumblebuns on Wednesday,January 11, 2017, 08:57:37 AM
It is amazing how many people have the spring clip missing. I would think that it would be extremely difficult to replicate with it's multiple bends. If you think you came across one, I've attached a couple of close ups.

I also ordered the "Great Knobs" products this morning, primarily for my power window switches. We'll see how well it works. BDA, thanks for the info on the spray on chrome systems. I may consider those when I get to my bumpers. Durability of the finish is my main concern.

To keep the ashtray in place, a very thin strip of Velcro or magnetic adhesive backed tape may work. 

 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,January 11, 2017, 10:47:07 AM
Quote
To keep the ashtray in place, a very thin strip of Velcro or magnetic adhesive backed tape may work. 

I was thinking in terms of badge tape (from 3M).
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: andy harwood on Wednesday,January 11, 2017, 04:50:41 PM
I forgot the spring clip had such bends. It also holds the ashtray lid open, and spring tension to keep it closed?
A guy around here does some really good chrome powder coating, that could be a option.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,January 12, 2017, 04:19:46 AM
Thanks again to everyone for insights, comments, recommendations and some thoughtful ideas on restoring the ashtray and substitute chrome.

I'm just happy I have the main parts of the ashtray to fill the void in the trans tunnel plastic cover.

While my chassis is off being media blasted and powder coated I'm working on the complete restoration of the shift linkage. I have a 352 transaxle and have read that every piece of the shift tubes connecting points should to be refurbish as it is the weak point. (Owning an early Elan I'm used to a very tight and direct shift, so I'm very spoiled).

I have two dilemma's regarding the shiftbtubes and associated parts; the center u-joint between the two tubes (#9 in the drawing) needs replacement. I have found a NOS part but the seller wants $400 for it. Then there is RD 's new version (see photo) for less than half the price. I'm not building a show car so originality isn't important, but function is. What would you do?

Second, I have two rear shift tubes (#10 in the drawing) Both are damaged and need many hours of repair work (not bent, just the ends are messed up). Have been looking for a NOS replacement without success. Anyone have this part for sale or know of a source? Is the ujoint attached to the rear tube a separate part or did it come with the rear tube already installed from the factory?

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: buzzer on Thursday,January 12, 2017, 05:06:20 AM
The joint at the end of the bent tube that connects into the gearbox is part of the tube. It is welded on as std. I would expect you can get someone to refurbish it if it needs rebuilding.
In the UK Banks & SJ sport cars ran provide/refurb the parts. I got my central Uj refurbished by SJ sport cars. The Banks's one looks good but is expensive.
A good local machine shop may be your best bet for the UJ which is fixed to the tube.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Thursday,January 12, 2017, 05:11:20 AM
If your gold standard is how a Lotus Elan shifts, you are in for a rude shock.  It can be improved though.

First, your questions: second first, yes the rear-most link u-joint has it's yoke welded to the tube.  First, if you are not concerned about originality, then use modern sealed joints from a race fabrication supplier such as Pegasus.

What would I do?  What I already did which is build a custom cable shifter.  Shifts like a dream and it is easy to find any gear whether going up or down through then box.  That's a lot of work though.  I think significant improvements can be had by replacing, where possible, bushings with sealed bearings, fitting sealed u-joints and making up a reverse lock out at the shifter.

Initial fabrication:

https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-4qr8BZx/A

Final form:

https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-nc9PsWm/A

https://jbcollier.smugmug.com/Lotus-Europa/i-SKn8D9L/A

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,January 12, 2017, 06:00:09 AM
I can't disagree with anything John says, especially about the sealed u-joints. I've seen a nice re-engineering of the pivot (at the bell housing) that should also help with shifting, too. I ll try to find some pictures.

In the meantime, I'd advise you to search the knowledgebase (link on main page of this forum) and the documentation section of Lotus Europa Central (http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/index.htm) for information on cable shifters. I have no experience with them, but several people seem to have had good experience with them. Since you aren't worried about originality and you're doing a frame-off, it might be an option to consider.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: andy harwood on Thursday,January 12, 2017, 06:41:23 AM
There are a couple of files of documentions of cable shift conversions in the yahoo group file section. D. Lindemans' being a very complete one. He also has a list of parts and suppliers for the parts he designed. He posted the parts/suppliers in the messages recently.
BDA - thanks for the tip about Lotus Central documentation, I had almost forgot about L-C.
I too will be going thru the cable shift modification soon
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Thursday,January 12, 2017, 09:47:25 AM
(Owning an early Elan I'm used to a very tight and direct shift, so I'm very spoiled).
You're gonna be disappointed.....   :)

However the 4 speed box isn't that bad when everything is tight.  If you're not bothered about originality then the modern linkages could no doubt be used, my concern would be the amount of work involved. It might just be a cut'n'weld, I just don't know.

What I do know is that the UJs in the central joint and rear joint are simple, straightforward things as used on many steering linkages.  Many years ago I bought a few from autojumbles over here, found matching units then stripped and replaced the working bits of both mine. I can't recall it being much different from doing any UJ although it's smaller of course.

The snag I found with the 352 is the weak reverse spring arrangement, it's too easy to go from 4th right across the grid & miss 2nd.  That will apply if you have the original or cable shift.  There are many solutions, John shows one on his S1. Mine was slightly different in that I have a spring loaded lever underneath the gaiter which provides additional resistance. In fact, it's adjustable depending on what spring I've used.

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,January 13, 2017, 03:22:43 AM
Thanks for all the input on shifter tubes and u-joints. Plus the consideration of building a cable shift system.

I am well aware that the shifting of a Europa is not exactly a precise action. It was amazing to me how sloppy it was to even find a gear. At first I thought there must be something disconnected, but after a careful review of all the parts on the shifter tubes and reading a number of posts it was apparent that this is the way it functions. I am astounded that a Lotus was designed like this, but it was still a small car company and solutions came at the cost of using other companies parts and then figuring out how to adapt them to the Lotus car.

I had read the various posts on the yahoo group months ago about the cable shifter design. It really looked very well done and someone had even put together a group buy. The detailed list of parts is a big plus, but there is also custom fabrication to be done and that means more time to source parts, build parts and fettle with everything.

I am a bit conflicted about which direction to go in. Rebuild the original and make it as tight an operation as possible or source and build a cable shifting system (which I understand as I had made a number of improvements to my track Exige cable shifting system).

As I have the chassis removed this is the time to do any serious work.  I am just a bit concerned about taking on another major project as I already have a major project going on with my rebuild.

Will reread all the posts on both scenarios over the weekend and come to a decision. In the mean time any of you are welcome to sway my thinking  8)

In the meantime, the media Blaster contacted me and had everything done. I called the powder coater and scheduled delivery of the chassis and associated parts on Saturday. Even more exciting was the race engine shop (Quicksilver) contacted me and had a slot to get my weber TC engine in. Progress!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Friday,January 13, 2017, 04:15:47 AM
I got my original TC linkage to work OK. Eliminating lost motion everywhere you can, and fixing the reverse gear selection, are most helpful.
However, even with that done the Renault box is slow, particularly in comparison to the Ford.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Friday,January 13, 2017, 04:31:40 AM
I meant to mention that I fixed the accidental reverse gear selection using a kit from Peter Boedker, which I thoroughly commend. You can find details in this forum.
I had been considering a similar solution, but since Peter had done the work already, I spent no further personal energy on it.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,January 13, 2017, 03:30:10 PM
Media blasting completed and delivered to the powder coater. Weekend of reading ahead regarding shift tubes and shift cables  :confused:

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,January 13, 2017, 03:32:49 PM
Looks pretty clean to me! What color are you powder coating it in?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,January 13, 2017, 03:46:11 PM
30% black. Not too glossy.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: andy harwood on Friday,January 13, 2017, 05:47:55 PM
Was your frame rusted on the top of the "T", where the pad sits? Was the only spot on my frame rusted, and it was pretty severe.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,January 13, 2017, 06:26:39 PM
I was fortunate, only surface rust on the chassis.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,January 15, 2017, 09:36:50 AM
JB, BDA & Andy, seems the cable shift modification has been done for NG3 gearboxes but not 352?  I can seem to find any details on a 352 conversion. Is there something I am missing?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,January 15, 2017, 07:35:21 PM
Spent a couple of hours today reading up on the shift linkage for a 352 transaxle and then looking at the parts I have that need rebuilding. I media blasted the linkage pieces I have just to see what was salvageable. Every rose joint and u-joint needs to be replaced.  Brian you comment on everything tight rang home with me.

I'm still undecided what to do. Seems the cable shift systems are for the NG3 transaxle and although well engineered (my complements to dlindemann) don't apply to the 352.  The comment Roger made on the 352 that made me think hard is that it isn't a robust transaxle and improving the shifting speed doesn't improve the performance, just the more accurate location of the gear.  Am I understanding this correctly?

If there is a complete cable shift kit for the 352 transaxle please let me know. Otherwise I am leaning towards the complete rebuild of my OEM shift tubes with the parts I can find and refurbish what I need to.....unless I can find a cable system that someone has engineered for the 352.

By the way, I found another HUGE stash of nuts behind the insulating material on the firewall.  I think I've finally found everything the mice have left behind  :o

 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,January 15, 2017, 07:58:13 PM
There is no "bolt-in" cable shifter system available for any Europa set-up.  There will be significant custom work regardless of which transaxle you choose.  Contrary to what you have heard, all the transaxles are more than up to the job for stock to reasonably modded engines..  In fact, if you decide to fit one of the five speed options, you'll quickly discover that you still end up with the engine running at high revs at 70 to 80 mph.  A Europa is a wonderful car for blasting along a twisty country road.  Interstate mile muncher?  I don't think so.

I think it is good idea to overhaul what you have.  Fit bearings and spherical joints instead of bushings where ever you can.  Also give some thought to fitting a reverse lock out as that is the best single mod I made to the shift linkage as I can now shift as fast as I want and still be confident of getting the intended gear.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,January 15, 2017, 08:30:10 PM
Again, I can't disagree with John here. I have an NG3 and at 3000 rpm I'm going about 55 mph. Highway speeds would be about another 1000 rpm. Not buzzy like an old Honda Civic, but certainly not loping. I've heard some say that around town, a 4 speed is as good a a 5 speed. I did own a 4 speed (my first Europa) and I traded it in for a 5 speed, but that was over forty years ago and I can't remember - nor was I bright enough to recognize - if either had an advantage around town. The 5 speed was certainly better on the highway.


As for the cable shifters, I think one can be adapted to the 352, but I can understand not wanting to break new ground. It could be a lot of work.


I do like my NG3. It is certainly not a detriment around town and is better on the road. If you're happy with 4 gears, there's no reason to get one, but if you want 5, I think it's the best option.


I guess a lot depends on what sort of engine and what sort of driving you're planning on. I suspect you could build a TC that's too strong for a 352 - I'd defer to John here - and if you want to do a lot of highway driving, I think you're going to want a 5 speed. And if that's in your future, you can think about cable shifters or Richard sells pretty decent shift linkage with his NG3s.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,January 15, 2017, 08:33:59 PM
Will this windbag ever shut up?


I finally found what an owner several years ago did for his shift linkage pivot. I thought it might be of interest to you: http://lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/ahines/transaxle.html
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,January 16, 2017, 12:32:59 AM
(part quote)
If there is a complete cable shift kit for the 352 transaxle please let me know. Otherwise I am leaning towards the complete rebuild of my OEM shift tubes with the parts I can find and refurbish what I need to.....unless I can find a cable system that someone has engineered for the 352.
I also have a 352 and have looked through many cable shift versions but yet have to find one for the 352. I bought an old Toyota lever assembly as that looks as if it will work but my enthusiasm for the project is low at the moment. When my OEM shifter becomes sloppy again then I think I might have a shot over one winter but as everyone has said, it will be trail blazing.

If you can get UJs to fit these days then a rebuild is your easiest option, not least because the manual tells you how to set it up. All joints need to be really tight although you do need some movement in the rubber bush mounting to the engine/clutch area and as has been commented, too tight here will transmit vibration to the gearstick.

If I had to list improvements in order, I would go;

1. Base of gear Lever to front selector shaft - sideways slop here is not good at all. Probably the most significant area.
2. End connection to gearbox UJ
3. Centre UJ and then finally the adjacent mounting point.

You can fit rubber steering rack bellows to the joints afterwards which keeps out dust/rain, I used the "universal" bellows and cut to size.  It isn't a perfect seal but better than being open to the elements.

The reverse detent is probably fine on the Renault but so easily overcome on the Lotus that I used to think the spring had fallen out or something. And you only need to miss 2nd once to lose confidence in those changes.  Probably the mass of linkage or leverage has some effect, I don't know but anything to prevent slipping too far across the gate is good.

Peter Boedker on here has manufactured a very neat system for lock out which is similar to some modern cars if you want an off the shelf solution.   I opted for a home made sprung lever which just adds as much resistance as you want by the spring selection. This still operates as standard without lifting the lever/gaiter, primarily because I wanted the car to look the same externally and it's completely hidden by the standard gaiter.  Plenty of options but I'd urge you to do something in this area whilst it's all apart.

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: andy harwood on Monday,January 16, 2017, 05:40:18 AM
 Here is a mod from gg.
http://gglotus.org/ggtech/europa-shifter/europashifter.htm
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,January 16, 2017, 05:59:33 AM
For rpm in top gear see this thread:

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1422.msg12697#msg12697

Specifically:

-----------------
For the sake of comparison,  if you were cruising along at 4000 rpm in 4th with a 336 or 352,  then the equivalent road-speed with the various 5-speeds would require these rpms:

Rpm .... overall ratio
4000 @ 3.663:1 = 336 & 352 in 4th
3771 @ 3.454:1 = 395-00 in 5th (it's a close ratio 5-speed, not a over-drive 'cruiser')
3591 @ 3.289:1 = 365-07  (stock Europa Twin Cam Special)
3552 @ 3.253:1 = 395-11,  -04 thru -09,  -12,  -21,  and NG3-025
3233 @ 2.961:1 = NG3-064 (but it has a very low 1st gear and poor intermediate spacing).

Note that in 5th, there's negligible difference between the Europa's 365 5-speed, and the 395-11 or -21.

Regards,
Tim Engel
-----------------

The problem with almost all of the NG series of transaxles is that they have a very low first gear.  Remember that the 336/352 have a 3.56 diff while the rest have a 3.78.  The NG series combine a lower first with a lower final drive.  1st ends up topping out well under 50 kph!  In addition, 5th gear drops 500 rpm at the most off that of a 336/352.  The one 5th gear that really does the trick, the 0.78, is not easily found and is still paired with a too low first.

I'm not saying that changing to a 5 speed is a bad idea, just that, as with any modification, there are pluses and minuses.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,January 17, 2017, 05:31:36 AM
Thanks everyone for all the input and additional information. I'm now feeling much better about the direction I'm heading in regarding the shifting device and transaxle.

I'm keeping the 352 4 speed transaxle as I will be doing very little highway driving. Plus I have a spare in case I need parts. Good to know the transaxle can handle a bit more power  8)

As I'm in the midst of a fairly compete rebuild I'm not going to tackle a "new project" by trying to develop a shift cable solution for a 352 transaxle. Will be rebuilding the shift tube design with more modern rose joints and sealed bearing/u-joints. The more robust reverse spring is a great modification and will be incorporating it. Thanks!

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,January 18, 2017, 12:17:38 PM
Chassis back from the powder coater.  He turned it around quickly for me  8)  Made a big order with RD Enterprises for all the parts I needed to reassemble and restore. Replacing every bearing and seal as well as all cables and hoses.

Now the real fun begins!

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,January 18, 2017, 12:30:29 PM
The frame looks really good! You're right, the fun begins! Have fun!


 :lotus:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,January 20, 2017, 05:22:52 AM
Box of parts arrived with four page inventory  ;D



Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,January 20, 2017, 06:23:50 AM
It's Christmas in January!  :pirate:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Sunday,January 22, 2017, 09:41:03 AM
Do you have the front closer plate?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,January 22, 2017, 11:27:43 AM
I do. Bought a new one from RD.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,January 22, 2017, 02:19:01 PM
TC shift linkage in better shape than what you have:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/182430429356
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,January 22, 2017, 04:17:12 PM
Thanks JB, I saw that. Says he won't ship.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,January 22, 2017, 04:20:21 PM
You might be able to talk him into breaking it down so it can reasonably shipped.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,January 22, 2017, 04:49:12 PM
I reached out to him to ask, he is considering.....
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,January 25, 2017, 01:54:22 PM
So I contact the person selling the shift tube on eBay, tell him I am very interested in buying it and will pay what ever it costs to ship it. He says he will do it and I am the ONLY person who bid on it. Today I get a PM from him saying someone convinced him to sell the rear part of the shift tube and now he only has the front part.  :blowup:

It's the rear part I really needed but having the entire tube intact was even better........

I just don't get it. Why bother posting on eBay?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,January 25, 2017, 02:39:24 PM
What a dope!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,January 26, 2017, 05:29:10 AM
Someone local (Southern CA) convinced him to dismantle and they took the back end of the shift tube with u-joints and left the front tube. I got hit by a "drive by". Not the way I operate as I still believe in a "handshake agreement".
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Thursday,January 26, 2017, 09:26:15 AM
I have sympathy with you,  I'd also be  "displeased"  with that sort of seller. 

The sad thing is that he's now left with something that's virtually unsaleable because it's the joints that wear out and the front tube is very easy to repair should the front gearstick holes become elongated.  No doubt he was persuaded that he'd get more cash by selling seperately but I'll bet it ends up in a skip.

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Thursday,January 26, 2017, 09:49:21 AM
If you can work out an easy way to get the whole system (both tubes) from Norfolk UK to the other side of the pond economically, I believe I have a reasonable spare.

Not something DHL/FEDEX could easily handle. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: andy harwood on Thursday,January 26, 2017, 10:08:07 AM
I shipped a complete shift tube set, in 2 pieces, from NC to the northeast last yr. Because it was over 4 foot long, UPS/FedEx charged a premium. If I remember correctly, about $100.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,January 27, 2017, 03:19:45 AM
Thanks for all of you listening to my disappointment over the non-transaction. A bit frustrating but I'm moving on! 4129R I sent you a PM.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,January 29, 2017, 05:44:11 AM
Yesterday was my trip to Quicksilver Racing to drop off the TC Weber head engine for rebuild.  3 1/2 hours each way from my house but always worth the trip as Sandy Shamlian  (Owner) is a great insight to what is going on in the racing scene and knows more about engine building than anyone I have ever met.  He's also a great guy!  My friend Chris came with me to keep me company (a Lotus Elan owner and former Formula Ford racer) to see Quicksilvers amazing machine shop. Sandy was kind enough to provide Chris a complete tour of his facilities in great detail.  I had my Elan S1 Weber TC rebuilt at his shop two years ago and was very impressed with his work and the performance of the engine once installed in my 64 Elan.

So the Europa TC was loaded into the back of my pickup for the early morning drive which was relaxing as Chris and I discussed all thing Lotus and no traffic was apparent the entire drive down to Maryland. Photo below of Chris and Sandy discussing the details of engine head modifications in front of one of the many specialty machines at Quicksilver. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,January 29, 2017, 06:33:49 AM
I knew of Quicksilver from my racing days in the latter '70s. Just the fact that they're still around speaks volumes. They would be an easy choice for me. Can you remind us of your plans for your motor? State of tune. Dyno? Head porting? Balance? Dry sump? Aluminum flywheel? Etc...
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,January 29, 2017, 12:12:43 PM
No dry sump. There is no reason to have one for a road car. I also don't build race engines for road cars, too tempermental and expensive.

I'm waiting for Sandy to tear the engine down before I make any hard decisions. Need to understand what condition it is in and what has already been done to it before I come up with a plan. It will come back to me with more HP and a better torque curve than stock. I always have my engines Dyno'd after they are built. If you don't have the documentation to show the HP/torque/rpm stats, I am always suspect of owners "talk". Show me the Dyno results........
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,January 29, 2017, 12:36:47 PM
That all make sense. It's interesting how many street cars have a dry sump (e.g. Porsche, Ferrari) and I hear even some motorcycles. I have a dry sump, too, but I while it might give me "cool racer stuff" points, I'm not sure I'd do it again. The oil in the tank drains into the sump over time and then you start on no pressure. I'm looking into ways to ameliorate that situation. So far, the least expensive and most fun way to do that is drive the car more often!


I hope you share your dyno sheet when you get the engine back.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: FranV8 on Sunday,January 29, 2017, 01:42:58 PM
The Corvette C7 gets a dry sump too if specifed in the more performance oriented Z51 trim (or more extreme Z06 model).

However - for the Lotus - don't we suffer oil starvation in hard cornering as stock?  So it's either a baffled sump, dry sump or Accusump as solutions?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,January 29, 2017, 02:41:31 PM
I had accusumps and baffled oil pans in my Lotus track cars. I only add aditional baffling and modify the oil pick up tube in road cars.

Corvette knows these cars are used for track days, there is good reason to have dry sumps as an option.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,January 29, 2017, 04:07:13 PM
Pretty much all the British motorcycles with a separate oil tank are dry sump.  Some have the separate oil reservoir in the cases themselves (Vincent).  Wet sumping, where the oil drains back into the engine can be an issue.  You shouldn't start an engine that has wet dumped.  Drain the sump and pour the oil back into the oil reservoir.

The surest solution is to fit a shut-off valve in the scavenge line.  Works very well as long as you remember to open it before starting the engine!  Maybe a shut off valve with an electric switch that either triggers an idiot light, or, locks out the starter.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: FranV8 on Sunday,January 29, 2017, 10:21:27 PM
Certified, would it be rude of me to ask for details of your baffle arrangement and pick up mods?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,January 30, 2017, 12:59:07 AM
Certified, would it be rude of me to ask for details of your baffle arrangement and pick up mods?

Unfortunately they are Quicksilver racing's design and proprietary to them. They also make a modification to the oil pump and add a small shield where the fuel pump cover plate is attached. Several modifications from their many years of building racing engines. The only way to get them done is to have them build you an engine.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,January 30, 2017, 05:25:11 AM
Here is the dyno plot (and photo of engine in Quicksilver's dyno room) from my weber TC engine in my Elan S1 (Quicksilver build). Engine stand dyno under load.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,February 19, 2017, 05:11:43 AM
A couple of weeks off from working on the Europa. Business travel was the main culprit but then my wife wanted to repaint a room in the house that needed lots of prep work and detail painting. So the Europa sat patiently while I got everything else done.  ;D

I want to get the front suspension and brakes installed, but need to get everything refinished, rebuilt and ready for reassembly. The upper front A-Arms needed media blasting and new bushings installed. Spent some time in front of my hydraulic press getting the old bushings out (by the way, a torch to warm up the collar is advisable) and then pressed in new bushings. Once that was done I went about prepping the metal with M600 for painting. 

My friend Drew told me about Eastwood's "Extreme Chassis Black" spray paint last year and it has been my new favorite rattle can spray paint. It takes several coats to get a nice full finish on it, but when you have taken your time and let everything dry properly between coats the finish is very very nice. Plus, its a close match to the powder coating. 

While the paint was drying, I was disassembling the left front suspension and brakes.  I had done the right side a few months ago, but left the opposite side until I was able to remove the chassis. Everything will be disassembled, media blasted, rebuilt and painted before reassembly.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,February 20, 2017, 05:37:31 AM
Another warm weather day in Princeton, amazing its in the 60's (F) in February!

Brought some of my metal painting outside as it was so warm (although windy) using my son's basket ball hoop as an ideal place to hang metal bits for spraying.

Went back into the shop to continue disassembly of the left front hub, stub axle, lower trunnion assembly, and bearings. As I was disassembling I noticed a fair amount of play in the trunnion.  Odd I thought, why would that be.  I carefully unscrewed the trunnion and cleaned off all the grease.  I could not believe what I saw. The thread on the vertical link was completely chewed up. Almost disintegrated. I could not come up with a logical explanation to myself of how that would even happen. Bad wheel balance and driven for an extended period of time?  No grease?  Lower control arm bent and causing unusual loads on the trunnion?  What could cause this on a low mileage car?   

As I have mentioned before, some parts of this car demonstrate it wasn't driven very much, other parts are completely shot. I wonder if the first guy that owned it only autocrossed the car and put huge loads on it without understanding any normal maintenance requirements?  Who knows.

Luckily I bought a parts car several months ago and stripped the front suspension, gear shift tubing, engine and transaxle off the car (sold the chassis and body).  I went right to my "spare" left front wheel assembly and took everything apart.  Good news, the entire assembly is in perfect condition.  Now I need to completely media blast all the parts, paint and then reassemble with all new bearing and bushings.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,February 20, 2017, 07:26:19 AM
Water and lack of maintenance.

The trunnion seal fails and allows water in.  That and 90+% of the trunnions are lubed with grease.  When grease is pumped in, it escapes out the easiest path; that is, straight out again.  Very little "new" grease stays in.  When you use oil, it fills the trunnion providing fresh lubrication to all of it.

If you are going with used parts, make sure you get a proper wheel alignment when you are finished.  The uprights are easily bent and it is hard to spot unless you check the included angle of each side.  One of mine was bent.

Random thoughts:

- Please also fit new trunnions.  They are cheap.  Threads on an upright can look OK.  You need to check them by fitting a new trunnion and check for play when it is a full turn from lightly home.

- Do not install a trunnion fully tight.  Run it snug home and then back off so it can turn freely side to side.  The temptation is to leave it "tight" but that stresses the trunnion seal which then fails leading to water incursion.

- Trunnions are easy to oil.  Do not fit grease nipples!  Fit easily removed plugs -- I use plastic ones.  Jack up the front to unload the trunnion.  Remove the plug and use an oil can of GL4 gear oil to fill the trunnion (it will flow out from the seal).  Replace the plug.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Monday,February 20, 2017, 10:30:04 AM
I don't  agree with  JBC'S comment about grease, nor do I want to reopen the grease vs oil debate that runs in every forum of every car that ever used the Alford and Alder upright - and there were many of those.
If you look at the photos above, you can see that oil or grease pumped in through the nipple can only go down to the bottom of the upright, then up again past the threads. It cannot flow directly out of the seal.
What is clear, and where I completely agree, is that corrosion has caused the problem in the upright, and that lack of lubricant, of whatever form,  is the culprit.

P.S. I use 50/50 Redline GL4 and Mobil1 synthetic grease, applied by gun, in both Elan and Europa. I suspect that whatever puts your mind at ease is the best choice!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,February 20, 2017, 04:41:06 PM
JB, your probably right, lack of grease or no grease caused the problem. I keep on reminding myself this car sat for more than 30 years and although most of it was in the back of a a garage, some of the time was in FL outside storage (same owner).

I agree on new trunnions and seals, the ones on the extra set seem to be new (along with the spindle and bearings). Never the less, I will change them out.

I've had sports cars all my life.......never heard of using oil vs grease. I certainly appreciate a different point of view, but I'm sticking with grease.

Roger, appreciate your thoughts and comments.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,February 20, 2017, 08:20:10 PM
Oil refreshes the places other lubes can't reach...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BFn-jSSrBPQ

;-)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,February 20, 2017, 10:37:32 PM
(part quote)
I've had sports cars all my life.......never heard of using oil vs grease. I certainly appreciate a different point of view, but I'm sticking with grease.
The debate has always puzzled me as well but it's regularly debated in the Elan community with valid reasons either way.  Ditto the Triumph boys who probably have a longer history with the components.

One reason for oil that I heard was that Triumph used grease until the Herald came along and that bought a change to oil. The reason was to extend service life to 6,000 miles because greases of the period had a habit of drying out too quickly.  Another theory was that it's a cold operating swivel and unlike a propshaft UJ or bearing might not generate enough heat to let the grease of the period work efficiently. I've no idea if that's true or not, in the 1940s I wasn't even playing with toy cars let alone real ones, but they don't sound unreasonable.

Everyone has a personal viewpoint on this. I used oil back in the days when I was doing high mileages and giving the Elan a quick check-over every month and I usually found that when the oil squirted in, water came out first. As every failure I've seen has had an element of corrosion in the upper sections I decided this wasn't good and changed to grease. If you take the weight off the trunnion before lubricating, I find that grease comes out of several points around the seal, so I think it works. The Elan has been like that for at least 37 years and although I've regularly changed brass trunnions, the vertical links are the same, no corrosion and a new trunnion restores the swivel.

My take is that we're not running the cars in the 1950s or 60s and should look at what we have available. For example the grease used in CV joints never seems to dry out to me, in fact I can't think of any modern automotive grease that does, although no doubt there are greases designed for high temperatures that will do so.

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,February 21, 2017, 04:17:08 AM
For the most part, these are weekend driver cars......which get a lot of maintenance attention. I don't drive my car without checking all  the fluid levels and tire pressure. Every spring I replace the oil and filter as well as pump grease into all the fittings. Full visual inspection of everything under the car. Last year I drove about 2000 miles. And during the winter it's stored in a garage that never gets below 50 degree under a breathable cover, started once a month for oil lubrication in the engine.

I think EuropaTC is correct in his thinking. Modern grease is much different that what was available in the 60's. That and the fact these cars arent being driven daily in all types of weather conditions suggest that grease is still suitable.

Interesting about using oil. I will read up on it to really understand the theory. Thanks as always for your opinions. I always find them informative and helpful.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,February 23, 2017, 12:31:55 PM
Did you ever get your shift linkage sorted out (I can't remember). SwiftDB4 is selling a 352 linkage - which should be the same for the 365 - for a buddy who died. It might be a good way to get a good linkage and help the widow of a Lotus owner...
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,February 23, 2017, 02:38:35 PM
Thanks BDA! I sent Dave an email. Appreciate you looking out for me!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,February 24, 2017, 11:18:46 AM
Visited my local auto body shop who has done fiberglass and paint work on some of my other Lotus'. Can't get me in until mid May and then 5 months to complete the work. Not exactly the schedule I was hoping for but I don't really have a choice as there are very few shops that specialize in fiberglass work close to me (except for two vette shops that probably won't pay attention to a Lotus).
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,February 24, 2017, 11:32:38 AM
Man! I thought my body shop experience was bad! It's been a long time so I don't remember the details, but I remember being disappointed in how long they kept my car (I have no problem with the job they did, they did a great job!)- but I think it was something like six or eight weeks!


That's got to be disappointing, but it sounds like you know they'll get the job done right.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Lou Drozdowski on Friday,February 24, 2017, 01:35:46 PM
Visited my local auto body shop who has done fiberglass and paint work on some of my other Lotus'. Can't get me in until mid May and then 5 months to complete the work. Not exactly the schedule I was hoping for but I don't really have a choice as there are very few shops that specialize in fiberglass work close to me (except for two vette shops that probably won't pay attention to a Lotus).

If I could recommend someone to help you sooner...send me a message. I had entrusted Dave Hoffman to paint my Europa and was thrilled with his work. A long time body man and ex Elan racer, a true artisan. His shop is right across the river from you in Hatboro Pa. He was referenced to me by Brian Boyle, who had his ropa done also...you wont be disappointed. His # 215-290-9366, tell him I said hello.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,February 24, 2017, 03:06:59 PM
Lou, thanks for the recommendation. I will call him next week.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,February 27, 2017, 04:41:14 AM
It never fails.  There is always some tool you don't have that holds up your progress.  Despite the fact that I have been working on British cars my entire life, I do not own a set of British Standard wrenches or sockets. I have always been able to have a work around and never needed them. Until yesterday! I was removing the front and rear bumpers and the capture bolts and nuts were very rusty. Sprayed them with WD40 and let them soak. The nuts were all British Standard and using a metric socket to get them off wasn't working. Luckily my friend Drew has a full complement of British Standard tools so off to his house I went to borrow some (Chris was with me and we spent an hour or so chatting with Drew on his latest projects in his garage). When we got back, removed the bumpers and then I returned the tools. Of course it took hours to get it all done so yes there was progress and no, not much got done.

The bright side of the story is I finally bit the bullet and bought British Standard wrenches and sockets on-line last night. Found a nice set of used Snap On wrenches and got the socket sets from a company in the UK called AB Tools.

My friend Chris had come over early in the morning (he drove is Elan S3 with top down in 40 degree weather for over an hour, that is a Lotus Enthusiast!) to help me work on the Europa and show me his newly designed shock spring compressor tool he made. We installed 12 inch springs on his new AVO front shocks with his cool new tool and it worked like a breeze. Chris surprised me with a gift of the tool, he made two of them and one was mine. After he left I media blasted the steel, prepped it for paint and am in the midst of painting the metal plates. It will have a special place in my tool box drawer of spring compressors!

Now I'm researching a place to re-chrome my bumpers and few other metal bits.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Monday,February 27, 2017, 07:31:25 AM
How odd! I started my motoring life with Austin Sevens and other Olde English cars, and have a full set of BSB spanners and sockets. However, I didn't need them at all for my Europa, 2345R, only 13 away from yours. AF and metric fitted everything apart from a couple of electrical instances of BA.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,February 27, 2017, 07:52:39 AM
Roger, did you have the original nuts on your bumper bolts? It might be possible that you dealt with replacements that are more "normal". I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me that the nuts on the bumper bolts might be something odd (at least in relation to the rest of the car). I believe it was my Lola race car that had some odd 10-32 nuts to hold the windscreen on the body. The screws were "normal", but I didn't have an SAE or metric wrench to fit those nuts. Maybe they were BS (hows that for an appropriate anacronym?).
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Tuesday,February 28, 2017, 05:48:52 AM
I'm pretty sure they're original, and since they almost certainly were a Ford part, it's surprising to find such an old thread type. Are they fine or Whitworth threads?
Hardly any BSF or BSW were being made by the 70s.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,February 28, 2017, 08:30:34 AM
Whitworth threads. I was equally surprised. And now that I have the tools will probably never need them 😎
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Tuesday,February 28, 2017, 09:19:35 PM
Out of curiosity I checked mine today, and I suspect you're right and they've been replaced at some time. They're M8x1.25.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,March 05, 2017, 05:25:47 AM
This week two more boxes of parts from RD Enterprises. I'm always amazed at the inventory of parts Ray & George have and they are very quick in shipping them. As mentioned last week I took the front and rear bumpers off with just a bit of difficulty and while bagging all the bolts for use when I reassemble noted that they all need to be re-chromed (along with my bumpers).  Did a quick check of how much it would cost to re-chrome these along with my bumpers and the price RD wanted for new ones. Easy answer, RD's chrome bumper bolts were half the price!

Also found out that George is in the midst of restoring a Europa S2!  He has a great project and Ill have to make sure I see it in person next time I stop by to pick up parts.

Yesterday was Kyle Kaulback's winter stress reliever at his Lotus Barn, an annual even that is not to be missed. So instead of working on my car I drove the 2 hours (one way) to Kyle's and met up with all the Lotus faithful to talk about everything Lotus. I was fortunate enough to meet a number of Europa owners and got them all talking about their cars (that was easy to do) and their individual experiences with maintaining and rebuilding them. The stories covered vast subject matter, all valuable and for further thought at a later point in time while I'm rebuilding my car. One thing I will say about Europa owners, they are extremely faithful to their model of Lotus car!


Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Lou Drozdowski on Sunday,March 05, 2017, 06:03:35 AM
Glen, As we discussed yesterday...these are the chaps I used for some bits of chroming. They are quite close to you in Philadelphia.    www.precisionchrome.com
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,March 05, 2017, 06:17:29 AM
Thanks Lou! I will be reaching out to them to get a quote. They are the closest facility yet!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: andy harwood on Sunday,March 05, 2017, 02:00:59 PM
"Kyle Kaulback's winter stress reliever at his Lotus Barn"
Now this looks like a lot of fun!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Sunday,March 05, 2017, 04:25:54 PM
That's my yellow M100 Elan behind the Europa S2 !!!  :)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,March 26, 2017, 04:37:43 AM
My friend Bruce came over yesterday with his recently acquired '72 Europa Twin Cam to show me his latest acquisition, discuss the transaxle and brake work he just did and let me drive his car down a couple of local country roads.  Bruce inspired me years ago to start searching for a Lotus Elan as he has a great early Elan that I admired and it kept appearing at various Lotus events just to keep me inspired.  His Europa is in fantastic original condition and the weber head engine is exactly what I am doing to my car (more on that later).

Bruce keeps up with my regular postings on the projects I am working on and was surprised I wasn't further along on my Europa rebuild (he knows from past experience how quickly I get these rebuilds done). Well...... work got in the way, I've been traveling a lot, just back from a week of scuba diving in Little Cayman and most of all, with the body repainting not being completed until fall 2017 I'm not in a rush.

Just heard back from Quick Silver Racing regarding my twin cam engine they are rebuilding. Seems the weber head is in fantastic condition with no signs of being shaved down, valves like new, intake cam is a Cosworth cam and exhaust has been reground.  The block had been completely rebuilt many years ago and although lots of new parts, it looked like the engine had been started up to test with no oil as the bearings and crank were slightly scored. We went thru my list of requirements to build a 150HP engine with lots of mid-range torque that will run on 92 octane pump gas. Should be another month or so before its done and I go down to see it run on the dyno.

My current Europa list of work is to rebuild the front bake calipers, finish painting suspension parts, rebuild the steering rack and tear down the transaxle to soda blast the housing and then reassemble. Plus I need to install the new airhose system in my garage from the compressor. I'm getting too much moisture in my current setup and I am changing out the entire system with new supply hose and remote fittings, a couple of new pressure regulators and better moisture capture in two places.

Bruce's 72 Europa TC:

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,March 26, 2017, 05:52:45 AM
That's an insanely clean Europa! Something tells me you'll keep yours that clean too!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Sunday,March 26, 2017, 08:39:03 AM
ahh, now slightly off topic but of much current interest to me.....   that exhaust manifold peeking out looks to be a tubular one, and if so, do you have a better shot of it ?

The reason is I'm planning my next project for my newly acquired tig welder and I'm leaning towards making a tubular exhaust for my TC, which currently has the cast iron manifold. One problem I'm hitting at the moment is how to get all the primaries the same (or similar) lengths because the images I've seen of the SJS stainless manifolds look as if 1-4 are signficantly  different lengths, and if I'm going to make one I'd like to be reasonably on track with the theory.

So any pictures of what others have done would be appreciated.....   :)

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,March 26, 2017, 09:11:48 AM
Brian, interesting that you bring up the exhaust manifold might be a tubular made version.  Bruce and I were trying to figure out who made it.  I had a number of Jim Valentine's exhaust systems on my Exige and they were all well designed. I did not know that Tubular made headers for the twin cam.  Here is a better shot of them:

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Sunday,March 26, 2017, 10:51:43 PM
 :)

Thanks, that's a great shot. And very interesting, is it a 4-2-1 or  4-1 going into a collector  like Roddymac has done ?  It is an interesting shot.  I hadn't thought of bringing the rearmost pipe out like that  and had discounted the 4-1 option because I didn't think it would fit. 

You can get tubular manifolds but not always without snags, one member of this forum couldn't get his newly purchased one to fit IIRC.

Another snag, like the one fitted to my Elan, is that the tubes are on the small side and branching 1-4, 2-3 results in a long pipe for #1 & short for #4, very much like the OEM casting.  From what I've read so far the idea is to get the primary tubes the same length for best results. With only guesswork to go on I'm working on Dave Vizard's recommendation of 13" lengths for a 4-2-1 system but very open to suggestions from what others have done. My default is to copy the commercial ones (SJS version below) but I'd like to try for better if I can.

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,March 27, 2017, 04:25:54 AM
Brian, when Jim Valentine owned and ran the business I bought 3 headers and probably half a dozen different exhaust systems from him. Amazingly he always delivered on time, sometimes within a week. Jim liked that I created videos of his work on my cars and he used them on his website. I'm probably one of the few that didn't have problems with him delivering on time or the fit. He made a couple of bespoke things for me.

Here is another TC header. I don't know who makes it but Rich Kamp (Kampena Motorsports) sells them. He suggests these provide some extra HP on TC engines for the Europa.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,March 27, 2017, 09:35:45 AM
Hi again,

Thank you for taking time to post up those shots, I really appreciate it. I'm at the stage where every design I see gives me a bit more knowledge and confidence in the project.

I'm still reading up but from what I've seen so far there is a possibility that a tubular manifold might give a few more bhp, when you look critically at the cast manifold it looks more like something for easy production rather than extracting every bhp possible.  The one you've shown confirms what I'm reading and looks a better design than the one I posted earlier.

I know I'll end up with a compromise between ideal design and practicality as I want to retain the luggage tray. So I think it will have to follow the OEM route, which rules out a design like Roddymac has made,  but even so I'd like to get as close as possible to even length primaries.

Brian

Edit to add.....    somehow I don't think I'll finish mine within a week !
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,March 27, 2017, 09:47:23 AM
Brian,


In case you're unaware, you can get kits to help you design your headers. I don't know much about them and they may only be worthwhile if you intend to design lots of different headers, but they may be worth a look.


A few related links:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1649639
http://www.trick-tools.com/Icengineworks-Exhaust-Header-Modeling-Systems-864
http://www.icengineworks.com/

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,March 27, 2017, 01:29:42 PM
Hi BDA,

It's certainly true, every day is a school day !   Nope, I've never heard of such things and sad to say my approach is much more low-tech, heck, my bits of bent wire are cutting edge to me !   :-[   

I'm just soaking up the info I can find, looking what others have done and then I'll cut wire to similar lengths and see what sort of shapes they have to go into to meet each other. Then I'll order up a selection of sch. 5 stainless weld elbows and cut/weld to suit, I have no chance of being able to form such bends myself.  It will most likely be assembled on the car and no doubt there will be tears before bedtime, rattles out of prams and hissy fits before it's done ! 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,March 27, 2017, 02:25:09 PM
Many years ago, I heard the trick was to use welding wire and a drill motor. I never understood how that was supposed to work - was it supposed to wind the wire into a spiral you could then bend? Anyway, the low tech system should work well, too. I agree that I wouldn't try to bend the tube but rather get mandrel bends. There are kits for that too, but I think if you get a bunch of 180 deg. bends and cut them up, that should work, too (says the guy who can't even weld! But I have heard people talk about it.)


You might be interested in this linke (http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/engines-drivetrain/sucp-1104-how-to-make-custom-headers/) on how to lay out and cut the bends, but I'm sure there are lots of youtube videos on it, too.


A header story:
A buddy of mine had a set for his Ztech made in England! I thought that was a loony idea. I was thinking his best bet was to put his car on a trailer and drag it to Charlotte, NC where almost all the NASCAR teams are AND Haas F1 team are and have someone there do it. He sent these folks some measurements and they sent him back a really beautiful set that fits! And it wasn't all that expensive! I was amazed. I posted a couple of pictures he sent me for your motivation!  :)



Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Tuesday,March 28, 2017, 02:28:06 AM
I suspect Brian didn't know there's a company called Tubular making manifolds, or headers in US-speak. To a Brit, a tubular manifold is one made of tube!
I'm trying to figure how those Rich Kamp exhausts fit a TC. The tube header I have on mine is the RD Enterprises one which runs under the sump and does, indeed, have mismatched lengths of 1 and 4. The Rich Kamp ones have to be vertically long enough to pass under the bellhousing and then what? A transverse silencer (muffler) behind the transmission? I'd like to see a pic of one installed in a car.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,March 28, 2017, 02:53:03 AM
Roger, i had a funny feeling that my identifying Tubular to Brian was misunderstood. I think your right. Regarding Kamp's headers I never asked him for further info as his headers where $850 and I had other more important purchases to make at the time before I focused on headers. I'll follow up with him regarding the full install and see what he says.

Note: I re-read Rich's email and he said the photos where of headers for an Elan, but same are built for a Europa with the long tube going under the transaxle. Hope to get more photos of that version.

Update: Kamp says the builder of the headers no longer makes them. They were perceived as too expensive.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,May 07, 2017, 04:10:17 PM
I'm back to working on my Europa after too much business related work (don't you hate when your real job gets in the way of your hobbies?) and the necessary outdoor related spring lawn and garden prep for the season (under the watchful eye of my loving wife). I did find the time over the last couple of weeks to install a permanent high pressure air line from my compressor to various places around the garage to supply air to almost any location. Now my media blaster has a direct air line with its own moisture filter and I have a separate moisture collector and air pressure regulator near one of the garage doors for outside work. 

I had a couple of objectives; first was to remove the leaky fuel tanks, then remove all the lights, emblems, and parts attached to the body to prepare for going to the painter and last but not least to remove the doors (I saved the best for last).

The removal of the fuel tanks went exactly according to plan. Drill out the rivets holding the "weather flaps" in place, spray the rusty nuts with rust remover, unbolt the tanks and slip out the bottom. Nothing to it!  Especially because I have my car on a lift and raising it up made it all very simple.

Worked my way around the body removing all the exterior parts and outside of a few rusty screws/bolts most of it went without issue. I was surprised the front side lights had the plastic molded housing riveted to some brackets to hold it to the body, but not a big deal to drill them out and remove.

I systematically unscrewed all the wiring harness hold-downs in the engine bay and coiled the harness up.  Will put in a plastic bag and leave intact as I didn't want to remove the harness for painting (they can work around it).

The doors........ I had removed the inside door panels several weeks ago and have been liberally spraying rust remover every couple of days on the retaining nuts for the door pin to let it all soak in preparing for this day.  My friend Drew came over to help (I knew it would be easier to have two people to remove the doors).  After several hours of trying everything we could think of and going back to this web site to do more research, we decided to take the air powered cutting wheel to the door pin and cut it inside the door.  I think this is a new process as I have not read about it being done this way.  At first we cut the pin in two places inside the door allowing for space to pull the door pin out. No Go!  The damn pin would rotate, but it would not pull out. Then we cut the bottom threaded part with nuts off and then pulled the top pin out (with much difficultly) allowing for the top of the door to be puller out and the bottom part to follow. Then we used the cutting wheel to cut what was left of the bottom metal threaded piece and hammer out the pin. What a pain in the A__! Four (yes 4) hours later one removed door. Notice I said one door. It was so much fun we are saving the other door for another week!

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,May 07, 2017, 05:05:17 PM
I'm surprised your door was so difficult as the hinge didn't look that bad. On the other hand, rusty door hinges are usually the roughest single job on a restoration so you're half way through it.


What are your plans for your gas tanks and hinges?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,May 07, 2017, 06:24:21 PM
I learned a long time ago that rust can almost be like being welded.  I didn't mention we also took a torch to the lower fitting.  Remember, this car sat for many years slowly rusting. The biggest culprit of a car sitting is the non-use of movable parts that end up being corroded and bonding to other metal pieces.  Your right BDA, the parts didn't look that bad, but nothing was getting those nuts off (we cut them off) and the pin was rusted to the metal sleeve.

I ordered the stainless replacement door hinge SS kit from RD Enterprises but I have read that Banks sells a brass version that is even better.  A couple of thoughts here. This isn't going to be a daily driver so the potential for rust is significantly lower (due to low exposure to rain). I also put never-seize on almost all my rebuilds when it comes to nuts, bolts and metal to metal contact. 

Already have a pair of new aluminum fuel tanks with AN fittings. Will be installing Aeroquip braided lines and fitting between the tanks, electric fuel pump and weber cars. I am fanatical on clean fuel tanks and water cooling systems. Why spend all the money on a very expensive engine build when you haven't made the investment in the systems that supply CLEAN cooling and fuel? 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,May 07, 2017, 07:20:33 PM
I'm with you on all that.


I have Richard's brass hinges and I like them. They have one advantage over the stock style hinges - you can take the door off and the only adjustment you'll lose is the vertical one which is the easiest to do. That said, I've never worked with the stock style hinges. Joji posted instructions on adjusting stock style hinges (sticky in the Technical Articles section).
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,May 29, 2017, 10:14:16 AM
Couple of hours today on the Europa. Got distracted with working on my S1 Elan this weekend, new tires (had to order from the UK to get what I wanted) and installed a custom 26R type airbox.  That's another story.  You'll have to follow my posts on the Elan site.

Drew came over to help remove the right door.  Well........he really did most of it himself so he removed it, I handed him tools. While he was grinding away the hinge pin, I tackled the front head lights. I made a tool (as described in the shop manual) to extract the trim ring around the head lights. Worked great. Got everything removed and tagged and bagged.

Next I need to remove the door window motors and trim. Will read up on that before I attempt.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,May 29, 2017, 02:02:51 PM
That's great progress! Pretty soon, you'll be putting stuff back on the car instead of taking it off! That will feel even better!  :)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,June 18, 2017, 09:41:00 AM
Removed the transaxle from the engine and brought it over to my friend Drew's house. Will be taking it apart in order to soda blast the casing (Drew has access to a soda blaster) and to inspect the entire transaxle as well as replace the axle shaft bearings and seals.  I'm hoping this isn't too much of an adventure......

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,June 18, 2017, 11:43:34 AM
It seems simple enough but then on the other hand, it's rare that things are as simple as they seem!  :P


Good luck!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,June 23, 2017, 02:57:31 PM
Thanks to Alex (he brought one of his Europa's over to 1st Performance and Exhausts Ltd. in Norwich) for getting the pattern made for these custom Stainless Steel exhaust systems.

I now have one here in the US😎
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,June 23, 2017, 08:51:59 PM
Those are beautiful!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Sunday,June 25, 2017, 03:43:59 PM
Big thank you, certified, your project is a good read and well documented. Keep up the great work.

Really nice shop also from an x New Jerseyian.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Gmg31 on Wednesday,July 05, 2017, 06:01:00 AM
I had mine soda blasted and in my view it was a terrible  waste of £800.  It left a dimpled finish over the entire body, a bit like a golf ball.  It slightly damaged the gel coat in a couple of places and it meant the car needed extra body work and base coats of high build primer that ended up costing even more.  If I were doing it again I would rub her down to the base coat.  In my humble opinion that was the worst advice I had listened to in my two year restoration.   
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Thursday,July 06, 2017, 06:59:56 AM
Operator error.  Mine was soda blasted by the PO with no issues.  That said, I would recommend rubbing it down as well.  Less skill is required.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,July 06, 2017, 12:15:43 PM
Just to be clear, I'm only soda blasting the transaxle casing, not the fiberglass body.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,July 08, 2017, 03:52:21 PM
Soda blasted the bell housing. In removing the bell housing from the transaxle it was evident someone had previously disassembled as the bolts had flat washers and not lock washers. Tomorrow is further disassembly to see what else we find. Ordered new seals and bearing from RD Enterprises.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,July 08, 2017, 05:56:01 PM
Pretty!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,July 30, 2017, 07:29:09 PM
Seems automotive painters who have experience repairing and painting fiberglass are in high demand in my area. The body shop I have used in the past and have been patiently waiting for (4 months) to pick up the body has fallen off the planet.

So as a back up I have spoken with 3 other well recommended places. One turned me down as they only work on cars that are "rollers". The other two are booked into early next year.

So goes my fall 2017 completion date for my restoration.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,July 30, 2017, 08:00:23 PM
Bummer! Hopefull you can find another body shop that can accommodate you on a better time line. I wonder what the consideration is for shop that only accepts rollers is. Would they accept it if you got it to them on a dolly?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,July 30, 2017, 09:33:25 PM
Better wait for quality than hurray for poor job.  Fibreglass work on old Lotus vehicles was never very good from new.  It takes a lot of work to repair and prep to get a good, long lasting result.  After spending a huge chunk of money, mine is going to have to be completely redone.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,July 31, 2017, 03:19:24 AM
The one paint shop won't allow a dolly, they only want cars on its own wheels. I'm going to have to make a hard decision on who to work with next. Lou gave a an excellent recommendation, but he is 6 months from starting a new project. Guess I will just bite the bullet and commit.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Lou Drozdowski on Monday,July 31, 2017, 03:36:21 AM
Sorry to hear about the long wait...Dave Hoffman is still my choice, he is a Lotus guy and his work speaks for itself. Are you sure he can't squeeze you in sooner?   
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,July 31, 2017, 04:18:23 AM
Sorry to hear about the long wait...Dave Hoffman is still my choice, he is a Lotus guy and his work speaks for itself. Are you sure he can't squeeze you in sooner?

Hi Lou, I spoke with Dave and he has a number of projects already in line. I reached back to him to reconfirm but didn't get a response. I'll try again this week.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,July 31, 2017, 04:18:41 AM
Further tear down of my 352 transaxle. Gears and synchro's all look good. The bearing races are scored so they need to all be replaced. Now comes the hunt for parts. The aluminum casing is pitted and soda blasting didn't smooth it out enough. Getting the pieces tumbled would make a great finish, but it's expensive. I'm thinking of just painting it semi-gloss black.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,July 31, 2017, 05:47:42 AM
That is normal bearing wear.  I would replace them but nothing is wrong.

This paint is perfect for cases that are a bit rough:

http://www.seymourpaint.com/product/alumi-blast/
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,July 31, 2017, 06:46:43 AM
Hi JB, agreed the races are normal bearing wear, but as long as I have the transaxle apart I'm replacing with new ones. Parts are cheap compared to the labor (time) to remove, dismantle, replace, reassemble and reinstall. And I have lots of time because my body painting is taking longer than anticipated.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 2766R on Monday,July 31, 2017, 07:06:50 AM
As another option, if I may suggest, is Dry Ice Blasting.  I had this done on the suggestion of Ragtops & Roadsters where my Europa is currently being worked on.  I didn't want to have a full tear down of the transmission which would have been required if any type of abrasive was used.  They finished up with a clear coat to prevent corrosion yet preserve the natural look of the aluminum castings. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,August 01, 2017, 03:17:00 AM
Did not know about dry ice blasting. It looks like your bell housing was media blasted and the transaxle done with dry ice. Is that correct?

The rear of the transaxle looks new. Was it replaced?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,August 01, 2017, 03:23:52 AM
Success on getting my body into a shop for painting! Dave Hoffman (Thanks Lou!) called me back and said he could get my car into his shop early September.

And I just heard back from Quicksilver Race Engines that the machining is all done on my engine, parts are in and assembly is scheduled. Dyno time in the not to distant future  :))
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,August 01, 2017, 05:18:42 AM
That's great news! It sounds like things are coming together nicely!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 2766R on Tuesday,August 01, 2017, 05:59:15 AM
Did not know about dry ice blasting. It looks like your bell housing was media blasted and the transaxle done with dry ice. Is that correct?

The rear of the transaxle looks new. Was it replaced?

All done in one shot.  This was done to avoid major dis-assembly.  The bell housing and rear cover were removed to facilitate removal and replacement of new seals as well as allowing a cursory internal inspection.  This, I believe, was done pre CO2 Blasting.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,August 02, 2017, 07:25:30 AM
For those of you that are interested in the details for the bearings in a 352 transaxle I'm posting various photos and the bearing number and size sheet for future reference.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,August 03, 2017, 05:02:17 PM
More 352 transaxle bearing photos
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,August 03, 2017, 05:03:20 PM
and a few more
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,August 03, 2017, 05:08:41 PM
Dropped off my front and rear bumpers at Precision Chrome in Philadelphia this morning. Typical odd run-down location with an even odder entry into the business (walked thru a couple of other businesses inside the building before I got to the guys doing chrome work).  One dent needs to be taken out of the rear bumper and I'm filling the two small holes that aren't needed for the Europa.
6 to 8 weeks until completed. These guys have a great reputation. Lots of custom work.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,August 03, 2017, 06:09:58 PM
It's great that you have so many good resources nearby. Especially, chrome. It seems there are fewer places that are willing to do it any more.


Have you built trannies before or is this your first one?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,August 03, 2017, 07:19:44 PM
This is my second transmission rebuild. No big deal, just need to make sure the tolerances are correct and the syncros are installed correctly. And having my friend Drew involved  :trophy:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,August 12, 2017, 03:18:44 PM
Just got my alternator back from being rebuilt by Torodyne. They always do a very nice job.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,August 17, 2017, 04:23:33 AM
While the search continues for the unobtainable double race pinion shaft front bearing for my 352 transaxle I decided to focus on something else that was easier to acquire for my Europa rebuild.

Several months ago I started looking at suppliers of interior carpets and a number of people on this site suggested Auto Mat in NY. They have a fairly extensive web site and lots of details on their various carpet kits for just about every car you can imagine. I had called them and spoke with a nice woman who provided a lot of information, but the choice of which carpet to choose became difficult to decide without sending a bunch of samples. So I made a note to go see them when I had time (it's a 2 1/2 hour drive from my house).

Well, yesterday was that day. Blue skies, mid August mid week which means low traffic volume for Long Island and a fairly clear day of work (just phone calls) so off to Auto Mat I went (after rush hour traffic was over).

When I arrived at their shop the parking lot was filled with every type of car you could imagine. A Rolls Royce limo, a very nicely painted impala, a corvette, a mustang, almost everything was American cars. Oh......and the Ghost Busters ambulance. The show room has an MGB in it with half the car in need of a restoration and the other half completely restored (interior and exterior). Lots of photos framed of various projects and happy customers. Finally got to the counter (it was almost lunch time and the place was empty) and met Tim. Friendly guy and told him what I was looking for, a complete 1972 Lotus Europa carpet set including padding. When I told him I had driven all the way from Princeton he said "well you deserve the complete shop tour".

First we looked at the complete range of carpet samples, of which there were many. Tim explained what came stock with the car and showed me the difference of each type of carpet. I ended up picking Wilton 4 as it was the nicest and closest to the OEM look. There is also a velvet wool III that is close (and more expensive) but I liked the Wilton 4 better.

Tim invites me into the shop for a tour and we start in the cutting and sewing rooms where there are thousands of carpet patterns hanging on racks of every car imaginable. Lots of big cutting tables, sewing machines and electric cutting devices. Then we moved into the installation rooms where a number of cars were having entire interiors installed, seats, carpets, headliners, soft tops, etc.  In another part of the shop they have an area filled with just every type of mechanical tool needed to do serious mechanical work and a hydrolic lift. On it was a car they were installing an air ride system for a low rider that could "bounce" with electric controls. In the back of the shop outside were about a dozen cars all waiting to be brought in for interior work.

Even though it was lunch time, plenty of guys were still working. We went back to the pattern department and found the hanging pattern on the racks for a Europa. Tim took out the complete pattern and layed it out on one of the cutting tables. We went thru all the pieces of the patterns and that is where there was an ah-ha moment......

Some of the pieces for the patterns had marked on it '73 Europa Twin Cam and up. The rest of the patterns were marked '68 to 73 Europa. I said to Tim the Europa body changed from an S2 to the Twin Cam in 72, not 73. He didn't know. After careful review of the patterns I decided that he needed to use the 73 Europa patterns, not the earlier version.

During our pattern conversation Tim showed me some custom made floor mats that had the car manufacturer logo cut into the carpet in full color. Very cool looking and he said he could do a 5" Lotus logo on each mat in color for me. Sold!

Then we talked about the padding (it's included) and how to install in the car. Tim also showed me additional sound insulation that I could buy (thin flexible rubber with a metal foil on it) for further sound proofing, but the stuff was heavy and I didn't want to add that much weight. Note that if you decide to buy this they precut it from the pattern!

They happen to be putting the final touches on another Europa carpet set in light grey and showed me the finished product. Very nice sewn edging and the cuts were very clean.

I'm glad I decided to vist Auto Mat. It was well worth the trip and now I have a full understanding of who they are and what they do. Delivery of my order will be in two weeks.

The carpet set with padding was $1026. The custom floor mats with 5 inch color Lotus logs was $280. Two cans of spray adhesive $36.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,August 17, 2017, 05:43:11 AM
Great write up of a cool visit!

I got my carpets from Automat - with the Lotus roundel embroidered in each mat! - and I'm very happy with them, but I was really confused about the different piles so besides the cool tour, having someone to discuss it with you was really valuable. I was surprised they were mistaken about when the S2-TC change happened but I don't suspect they deal with that very often in spite of my banging a drum for them at every opportunity. There just aren't that many of us.

I'm sure you'll be happy with your kit!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Thursday,August 17, 2017, 08:53:09 AM
Great write up, the company comes across as a very good place to deal with. 

And ya just gotta love the Ghostbusters car......
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Bainford on Thursday,August 17, 2017, 08:56:07 AM
Great report, thanks for posting. I enjoy reports like this as it can be difficult to tell which suppliers are true, 'dyed in the wool' (pun intended) car enthusiasts and which ones are just pushing 'made in China' product. These guys are obviously serious about their work. I must say the price of the complete set was a surprise to me, but hand made quality is not cheap and always worth it.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,August 17, 2017, 11:11:59 AM
Thanks everyone. Please note that you can purchase the carpet set for 1/2 the price I paid. I just went with the higher end carpet and was willing to spend the $$$.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Grumblebuns on Friday,August 18, 2017, 07:15:04 AM
For those of you that are interested in the details for the bearings in a 352 transaxle I'm posting various photos and the bearing number and size sheet for future reference.

Certified Lotus, great information on the 352 bearings. Maybe it's the closet bureaucrat in my soul but I like my information easy to find and I'm thinking that the info you posted is buried in a generic heading and will be lost to those who may need the info. I'm wondering if you can re-post the bearing info in the Technical section under it's own title.

Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
   
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,August 18, 2017, 04:33:12 PM
Joji, once I get everything done on securing all the parts and rebuilding the 352 transaxle I will create a new post just for that. No problem.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,August 27, 2017, 01:10:13 AM
My new carpeting arrived from AutoMat this week ((Thursday). Fast turnaround from the day I ordered it. The custom floor mats with Lotus Logo are back ordered two more weeks.

Yesterday (Saturday) was one of those perfect days for painting. Very low humidity, no wind and sunny. I had a bunch of parts to be painted waiting for a day like this so I did some media blasting, wiped everything down with paint thinner to prep and hung outside for painting. Four coats later everything came back inside for storage and curing.

I had media blasted the motor mounts and after close inspection saw one of them had a long crack in the rubber mount. Added new motor mounts to my list of parts needed.

Spoke with Ray at RD Enterprises. He located the last two bearings I need for my transaxle rebuild. Those should be here soon.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,September 03, 2017, 08:51:48 PM
My custom floor mats showed up on Thursday. Automat did a nice job. Will store them away for installation in Spring 2018......in hopes that my body will be repainted by then  :o

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,September 03, 2017, 09:21:17 PM
They do nice very work! They'll look great in your car!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,September 07, 2017, 05:10:54 AM
Got a call from Precision Chrome letting me know my bumpers were done.  Drove down to North Phila and had a nice conversation with Marty. He has been chroming parts for 30 years in this location. Trust me, he knows what he is doing.  I had him remove a large dent in the rear bumper as well as fill in the two small holes (I know, the purists are going to howl). Marty welded small plates behind the holes and then filled them in and ground them down before plating. Everything was perfectly done and the re-chroming is spectacular.  Now I'm worried that I will have to re-chrome  everything else because the bumpers look so good.......


Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,September 07, 2017, 05:22:51 AM
The last bearings I needed to rebuild my 352 transaxle arrived. Big thanks to Ray at RD Enterprises for sourcing them as they are rare as hens teeth. Ray even had to "create" a part number for the difficult to find double race pinion shaft bearing as it isn't listed in the Europa parts manual. As a matter of fact, there was no part number on the original bearings.

Unfortunately my friend Drew who is rebuilding this transaxle is currently in Italy at the Ferrari factory for some special "by invitation only" event. I will have to be patient and wait for his return.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,September 07, 2017, 05:36:35 AM
You (and Ray) must have the last unobtanium magnet!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,October 16, 2017, 04:36:54 AM
Spoke with Dave Hoffman over the weekend about the pickup of my Europa body. Looks like 2 weeks and it will be out of my garage and into his body shop. I have decided to fill the side light marker holes in as well as the antenna hole while the body is being worked on. I have seen a couple of Europa Twin Cam's that have had this done and really like the look.  This weekend I got all the carpeting and wiring out of the car, now it's really ready to be sent out!

Gotta love the original 2358 Yellow marking in the car. Need to keep that intact!

I left the interior headliner in place as it is in great condition. I'm hoping it can be masked off while being painted to keep it intact.

The engine builder called me last week asking what color to paint the valve cover so the completion of the engine is very close. Just waiting for him to call me with a date for the dyno run.

With the body going away and the engine coming in, along with the rebuild of the transaxle, I will have my winter project of reassembling the entire chassis in preparation for receiving the body back in spring. I have also decided to put disc brakes on the rear, just waiting for the group buy to be finalized.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,October 16, 2017, 06:06:44 AM
Things are moving pretty fast! That's great!


Are you going to have a radio? If so, where will you put the antenna?


I don't remember if you said what you're going to do about door hinges? r.d.'s stainless steel set or Richard's brass set?


So are you painting the cam cover to match the car, going with the original black, or something else?


Can't wait to see pictures after you get the body back!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Monday,October 16, 2017, 08:43:50 AM
Original cam cover colour would have been red.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,October 16, 2017, 10:34:20 AM
My TC cam cover was black with aluminum ribs. It was my understanding that all the big valve motors all had this cam cover (see attached pictures) but I might have heard of a big valve motor with the un-ribbed cam cover that I think you're referring to. Since the ribbed cam cover had "BIG VALVE" cast into it, they should have only originally been installed on big valve motors but then with Lotus, who knows what might have happened!

As I was searching for a good picture to post, I was astounded at how long it took for me to find one like the ones I was used to (at least as found on all the Europa TCs I've seen in the US)! There are clearly many different versions of them and owners often paint them (or not) to their taste.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,October 16, 2017, 02:07:19 PM
Things are moving pretty fast! That's great!


Are you going to have a radio? If so, where will you put the antenna?


I don't remember if you said what you're going to do about door hinges? r.d.'s stainless steel set or Richard's brass set?


So are you painting the cam cover to match the car, going with the original black, or something else?


Can't wait to see pictures after you get the body back!

No radio (I pulled it out and had a new dash made with a blank plate). I like the sound of the Weber’s and Twin Cam engine along with a throaty exhaust!

Bought the stainless steel door pins from RD Enterprises.

I am having the valve cover powder coated black with the BIG Valve, Lotus and the ribs all left aluminum color.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,October 16, 2017, 02:20:24 PM
She's going to be great!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,October 16, 2017, 03:54:45 PM
Thanks Jim. I’m kind of fanatical about my rebuilds. I like performance oriented sports cars that I can tweak and make just a little bit better. That is the best thing with sports cars that are 30+ years old, you can do almost anything you want and it’s road legal  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Tuesday,October 17, 2017, 01:56:02 AM
The standard Big Valve, low-compression Federal TC engine had a red ribbed cam cover.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,October 17, 2017, 03:47:18 AM
I was wondering why the majority of the valve covers seem to be red and then a smattering of black ones are around. My original engine for this car (with less than 6000 miles on it) had a red valve cover and the Weber head TC Europa engine I bought to build a performance engine also had a red valve cover.

Never the less, I like the black with silver lettering and ribs so that’s what I’m doing.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Tuesday,October 17, 2017, 12:07:08 PM
I was wondering why the majority of the valve covers seem to be red and then a smattering of black ones are around. My original engine for this car (with less than 6000 miles on it) had a red valve cover and the Weber head TC Europa engine I bought to build a performance engine also had a red valve cover.

Never the less, I like the black with silver lettering and ribs so that’s what I’m doing.

Dead right, your car, whatever you like best. My post was meant to be a reply to BDA. In any case, your engine is far from standard  Federal TC spec!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Thursday,October 19, 2017, 02:46:22 PM
My experience finding many original Lotus cars is that Europa Big Valve engine covers were Black, but the "ELAN" big valve engine covers were Red.   Go figure! :)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,October 19, 2017, 04:24:39 PM
The plot thickens!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Pfreen on Thursday,October 19, 2017, 05:17:33 PM
My 73 Europa Special has a black ribbed valve cover.  I have owned it since 1986.  I do not think the previous color was red since the paint wasn't great when I bought it and I have stripped it a couple of times over the years and never found red.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Pfreen on Thursday,October 19, 2017, 05:19:04 PM
BTW, my Europa is Federal spec.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Sherman Kaplan on Thursday,October 19, 2017, 06:52:54 PM
Regarding the Federal cars I believe that the twin cam had the red valve cover and the special had the black.  All Federal cars had the big valve engine.  I had a 1972 twin cam and it had the red cover and I now have a 1973 special and it has the black cover.

Sherman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Pfreen on Friday,October 20, 2017, 04:51:13 AM
Interesting!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Bainford on Friday,October 20, 2017, 08:20:48 AM
FWIW, my federal '73 Special has a big valve Twin Cam with its original black cam cover.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Friday,October 20, 2017, 08:51:08 AM
Regarding the Federal cars I believe that the twin cam had the red valve cover and the special had the black.  All Federal cars had the big valve engine.  I had a 1972 twin cam and it had the red cover and I now have a 1973 special and it has the black cover.

Sherman

Exactly! Miles Wilkins doesn't mention the Federal TCS engine, but my observation suggests they were black originally. I don't know if there are any other differences between the Federal TC and TCS engines,  but I don't think so. I think both were Stromberg, low compression, type C camshafts etc.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,November 04, 2017, 04:45:40 AM
The day I have been waiting for.......for 6 months!  The body shop arrived to pick up my Europa  :pirate:  Went over all the "custom work" I wanted done and we spoke about what color yellow to use. I've got an original mint condition Lotus paint color brochure that we are going to use to match the color.  But that will be months from now. First is sanding and all the fiberglass work to be done.

My engine shop called to let me know my twin cam is on the dyno and running nicely but there is some issue with the electronic distributor advance not functioning properly. They are working on sorting it out and I'm scheduled to go to the shop next Saturday see it run on the dyno and pack it up to bring home.

Now I can focus on rebuilding the chassis this winter.  The next big project is re-assembling the transaxle with all new bearings. 

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,November 04, 2017, 09:43:18 AM
Congratulations!! That's great news! Things should start moving pretty fast this spring.


You have to watch posting pictures (or I have to watch for them) of your garage. You're giving me severe garage envy!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,November 05, 2017, 03:04:10 AM
Jim, sorry I keep posting pictures of my garage  8). You will notice that it’s a “real workshop” meaning there are always multible projects going on with lots of parts around in various stages of needs to be worked on, disassembled, rebuilt, painted and waiting for install, media blasted and waiting for paint, etc, etc. I’m always amazed at the garages I see that have beautifully painted floors without an oil stain anywhere and everything is in perfect order. 

I’ve been collecting tools since I was a teenager working on MG, Triumph, BMW, Jaguar, Porsche, and my favorite Datsun 2000.  Over that many years you assemble a large collection, hense all the tool boxes, presses, tubing benders, media blaster, compressed air systems.

The lift I had my wife buy me for my 60th birthday.  I had been working on the garage floor under a car for an entire weekend and could barely move on Monday (and I have a very fancy creeper that holds your head in the right position with easy to reach tools trays on either side) That got me looking at lifts and I was amazed how inexpensive they were for a home shop. Should have done it years ago.

The Lotus art work, posters, signs and photos have been collected since 2005 when I started owning Lotus cars (migrating from Porsche 911 cars).

So, I’ve been a sports car guy since I was 16 and although I have been through many cars in my life I have always kept and added onto my tool collection.

When I retire, this will be one of my major hobbies. Restoring older Lotus sports cars.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,November 05, 2017, 05:56:00 AM
You've done it right. Always buy a tool when you need one and never throw one away because you never know when you'll have a use for it.


Unfortunately, there is a support beam holding up my ceiling so there really isn't enough height for a lift. Maybe in my next garage...
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,November 09, 2017, 07:31:25 PM
Stopped off at the auto body shop today to look at the work done so far.  Dave called me to say come over, he wants to show me what he found while taking the paint off....

Seems this car was painted a couple of times (I knew that but scratching my head as to why.  It is a low mileage car.) He pointed out a grey "skim coat" over all the fiberglass and then a primer with a coat of paint, then another coat of primer and another coat of a different color of yellow.  Dave has done plenty of Lotus fiberglass cars and said he has never seen a Lotus completely covered with what looks like a skim coat of bondo.  This is what was causing the cracking of the paint, not the fiberglass.

I have heard stories of cars coming off the ship that needed complete repainting from the factory, but I thought that was the early years (early Elan's).  Is this some type of fiberglass coating the factory was trying out?

Here are a bunch of photo's. Anyone have any ideas or knowledge of what this is?

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,November 09, 2017, 08:20:28 PM
I used to hang out at the Lotus distributor in New Orleans that was the port of import for the central US. I heard that sometimes a Europa would be damaged by heavy wire rope being dragged over it. There was probably other damage that could occur in shipping too. Something like that might prompt a complete respray.

Then there were the cars like mine that sat out in the New Orleans weather for a year and a half. The metallic paint on my car was pretty sad. Another good candidate for a complete respray.

I remember one guy who bought a car off the lot but wanted an Earl Scheib paint job on it before he picked it up. It didn't look too bad except there were bubbles in the paint in the headlight scoop outs! He was supposed to be happy with it! I wouldn't have been!

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Thursday,November 09, 2017, 11:41:29 PM
It's very difficult to comment sensibly on photographs of topics like this but I'll give it a shot.

My car hadn't been sprayed before I bought it apart from a small area over the LHS front wheel arch where there had been a light scrape. So when I sprayed it I was sure that what I saw was OEM Lotus stuff.

Your image 1824-2 looks very similar to what I found. Looking at the lower edge of the front bonnet you've got fibreglass, white, grey, then colour. I don't have any good pictures from back then, only a scanned 6"x4" photo,  but this will give you an idea of what it looked like part way in the prep. You can see areas of grey, white and the bare fibreglass over the wheel arch where I re-did the repair with GRP instead of just filler.

Looking at image 1821 (door ?) I'd take off the rest of the grey and then wipe the area with acetone or thinners to see what's left. It wouldn't surprise me to find there was a hint of the crack in the gel coat of the fibreglass. Thick coats of paint do crack, but that looks like an impact on the grp rather than paint cracking through being applied too thickly.

Having said that, you could most likely paint over it in that position and never see anything return because unlike the door handles that position shouldn't see much stress. I'd repair it myself though, it's very frustrating to find cracks re-appearing later on.

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,November 10, 2017, 03:04:37 AM
BDA, I have heard many stories like your about the condition of cars upon arrival coming off the boat. Also heard that cars would sit outside on dealer lots for a long time. Anything is possible. It doesn’t look like my car was damaged, just repainted.

Brian, your response is what I was looking for and greatly appreciate the photo (could you send me a higher resolution one via pm? I want to show my body shop). I’m feeling a little better now about the various coats found on my Europa.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Friday,November 10, 2017, 03:44:39 AM
Does the "Crinkle Finish" on 4259R make you feel any better?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,November 10, 2017, 03:53:01 AM
Alex, that is a clear representation of a car stored outside for a number of years. The question is, what is below the top coat of paint and how many layers? I think I see some grey peaking through?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Friday,November 10, 2017, 04:06:36 AM
According to Lotus records, it is a completely different colour (L15 black I think), according to the VIN plate, it is no colour at all, with not even a scratch where the number should be embossed.

According to the doors and everything else, it has always been yellow.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Friday,November 10, 2017, 09:57:25 AM
Brian, your response is what I was looking for and greatly appreciate the photo (could you send me a higher resolution one via pm? I want to show my body shop). I’m feeling a little better now about the various coats found on my Europa.
Hi again,

Unfortunately it's the only one I have, and it's scanned from a not very good 35mm 6x4 print.  That's the 1980s for you, no digital photography and "mobile" phones the size of a house brick ! 

I can do an enlargement from the scan on the front section though and that might highlight the grey/white/bare fibreglass areas slightly better.  At the time I thought the grey was conventional cellulose hi-build primer and the white a polyester spray filler.   It was a thin but harder film than the grey and I found similar layers on my '68 elan, albeit under half a dozen layers of various shades of red - that one had been sprayed several times in it's 9 years before I bought it.....

For what it's worth I took off all the grey and the white rubbed through in several areas along the way.   I normally prefer to go back to bare fibreglass on a respray but felt that the white patches that remained weren't going to cause paint reactions.  20+ years later I found micro blisters between the paint layers but don't think that was due to leaving the white patches but to my daft storage ideas when we moved house and the roof on the outbuilding was leaking. The paint had been fine until I covered it with a plastic sheet......

Brian

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Friday,November 10, 2017, 09:59:53 AM
Does the "Crinkle Finish" on 4259R make you feel any better?

Now if that was a kitchen table & chairs you'd see it being marketed as "shabby chic" and youngsters would be queuing around the block to buy it.....   :)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Friday,November 10, 2017, 12:56:47 PM
I agree with certified, working at cold weather stations all the fiberglass deiceing equipment had that finish . You caught it in time before the water got into the glass and then froze  . I had to scrap many buckets that the aerial lift person stood in at 60 ft height.

   As for what is on the car looks to me as a high build primer that can be sprayed directly on bare fiberglass instead of gel coat. Sometimes people add “icing” which is made to go on entire panel and blocked flat with “durablock” block. I used a 12” over my car with 3m dry guide .

I also found a lot of repaint when I stripped the car down and filler where after stripping there was no need for it. Looks great can’t wait for more pics.
Dakazman
.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,November 11, 2017, 07:09:07 PM
Thanks again Brian. I'm good with the photo you posted, no need to go through extra trouble to make another copy.  Appreciate the offer to do so!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,November 11, 2017, 07:23:20 PM
Dyno day at Quicksilver RacEngines!  My favorite time at Quicksilver  8)  I've got to tell you, Sandy and Eric run a great shop and I always enjoy my visit's to go see them. Even though they are 3 1/2 hours from me, its always worth the drive.

I was lucky enough to be able to schedule a Saturday dyno run of the twin cam weber head engine they built for me.  Typical of Quicksilver, the fit and finish was magnificent and the dyno run was the proof of the pudding. My spec for road cars is a nice HP ramp up and a torque curve that has a similar progression. Quicksilver always delivers.  I am not interested in high high HP range as this is a road car and with more power than I spec you have to start worrying about the downstream effect on transaxles parts and axle shafts.  I spec 93 octane use and a nice torque curve.

Here are photos of the dyno room, the dyno read out during testing (147.6 HP and 124.4 ft. lbs. of torque), loading the TC on my truck and delivery to my garage. Note that Sandy does test runs to 7000 rpms.  That is a testimony to his build quality.

The light green curve is of the engine they built for me for my 64 Lotus Elan S1 and the dark green curve is of the Europa Engine they just built.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,November 11, 2017, 07:52:15 PM
That's a thing of beauty! They have a long reputation for quality, reliability, and power. It's clear they also pay attention even to cosmetic details.

Over 140 hp is good power. I assume you have a cast crank (as I do). 7000 rpm should be plenty for a street car. Your car should go really well with it, but that's not a stretch at all, is it?

It sure looks lonely sitting on the floor all alone without the car that belongs there!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Saturday,November 11, 2017, 11:02:47 PM
That's very impressive and the curve for the Elan engine looks even better, a very smooth transition.  Are there many differences between your Elan engine and this latest one ?

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,November 12, 2017, 03:59:17 AM
The cams are the only difference between the Engines. My Elan TC uses Kent Cams and the Europa Engine has a Cosworth intake Cam (it was already on the head) and the exhaust Cam was reground to change the profile. Both engines have custom pistons and completely built heads with new valves, springs, etc.

My Elan is very quick. I expect the Europa will be the same  :beerchug:

Jim,  the engine might look lonely but it won’t be long before things start coming together. I just need a full 10 hour day to put the transaxle together. Then the chassis re-assembly can start.

One small issue of wanting to convert to rear disc brakes. Sounds like Milo Engineering doesn’t have a firm date to complete the design.  That might be a hold up.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,November 12, 2017, 06:32:46 AM
Banks has rear disc kits.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,November 12, 2017, 06:44:06 AM
My rear brake kit from Richard is fine but the parking brake is useless. He may have a better setup now so if you go to him be sure you ask about that if that's an issue for you.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,November 14, 2017, 05:34:57 AM
 That is one impressive build, you have outdid yourself and I’m looking forward to reading more of your story.

Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Runningwild on Tuesday,November 14, 2017, 05:42:12 AM
BDA. This is the rear disc kit I got from Banks. Same as yours? 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,November 14, 2017, 06:30:53 AM
That does look like mine (except I didn't get the new calipers!  :) ) It's a Ford unit, right? It's possible I could get a little brake force out of the parking brake with some additional adjustments and since I'm under the car for a while, I might try but Richard told me not to expect much from them so I don't think I ever worried much about adjusting when I built the car. Besides, I'm not a parking brake user. I was taught to use them sparingly back in the days of rear drum brakes because of the danger of warping the drum. That certainly doesn't apply to any of my cars any more but I retained the habit. Another reason I'm glad I don't live in San Francisco!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Tuesday,November 14, 2017, 07:15:58 AM
My rear brake kit from Richard is fine but the parking brake is useless. He may have a better setup now so if you go to him be sure you ask about that if that's an issue for you.
Hi, Newbie here.  :newhere: Just found this thread and am blown away. Beautiful resto, and like everyone else, totally jelly of your workspace. One newbie question: Who is this "Richard" I hear everyone talking about? Have heard him mentioned a few times and sounds like someone who can help with my front end issue. Congrats on the yellow TCS, can't wait to see the finished product.
Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,November 14, 2017, 07:49:38 AM
Richard runs Banks Service Station aka Lotus Engineering (or is it the other way around?) in the UK. He has developed a lot of great kits to improve the Europa and probably knows more about Europas than anyone on the planet. He's a great resource and a great guy. This page may be useful to you (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1389.0). His website is listed there but to make it easier for you, here it is: http://www.banks-europa.co.uk/index.php


Some of the things he's developed are a twin link rear suspension, rear discs, vented front discs, adjustable front A-arms, and boot lid gas struts to name a few. He also sells his own frames and body kits not to mention regular spares for S1s, S2s, and TCs.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Wednesday,November 15, 2017, 10:08:50 PM
The cams are the only difference between the Engines. My Elan TC uses Kent Cams and the Europa Engine has a Cosworth intake Cam (it was already on the head) and the exhaust Cam was reground to change the profile. Both engines have custom pistons and completely built heads with new valves, springs, etc.
My Elan is very quick. I expect the Europa will be the same  :beerchug:
A bit late responding on this one, but the Kent Cam application is interesting. When I looked earlier this year they listed quite a few cams and I only recognised the CPL2, L1 & L2 cams. I was put off because apart from the CPL2 they listed everything else as competition with no power band references or comments as to how each cam responded, just the valve timings.  And I'm not clever enough to know what power band I can expect with a specific valve timing, just that it will progressively move away from where I'd normally expect it to be.

But your Elan curve is very impressive, did your builder tell you what model of cam was used and if so, is the car tractable on the road ?   I have sprint cams in my Elan which I understand are the CPL2 equivalent and that's very smooth from 1500rpm upwards. I'm very tempted to go slightly different with the Europa (QED is current favourite) so I'm looking around at what's in the "sprint plus" categories.

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Wednesday,November 15, 2017, 11:30:37 PM
Because of the extension for the pulley for the alternator drive on the inlet cam, Europa cams can be harder to find than normal TC cams.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,November 16, 2017, 05:15:48 AM
Here is the full dyno plot of the TC in my Elan S1.  The type of cams, pistons and size of valves is included.  I do have a slight low RPM stumble (below 2500 rpm) that a friend of mine thinks can be tuned out with some additional weber carb adjustments. About 2500 rpm's this engine just pulls and pulls all the way to the red line without missing a beat.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Thursday,November 16, 2017, 09:34:28 AM
Very impressive. I see you've got 1.6 inlet valves in there which I think are the max size you can go to on the seats.  My first attempt hasn't turned up the cams but as I was reading it sideways on the screen (!) I shall print out the page and try again later.

I find these numbers very impressive. Back in the 60s/70s we thought that 125bhp was pushing it for a road engine but it seems that 140 is the new 125....

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,November 17, 2017, 03:32:01 AM
Thanks everyone for your comments on my engine builds. I’m fairly conservative on the HP and torque requirements of the builds as I want a streetable engine that will last (you can get 200 HP out of these engines, but they become temperamental and very fragile). The real work is done by Quicksilver RacEngines as they are the experts (their engine building shop is amazing). All I did was talk through what I wanted and the purpose.

I find that an extra 20 to 30 HP in these cars makes a world of difference. But you also need suspension and brake upgrades to match the new performance.

By the way, my Elan TC that was built by Quicksilver has now been installed in my car for 3 years, been driven thousands of miles and doesn’t leak a drop of oil.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: buzzer on Thursday,November 23, 2017, 05:44:10 AM
Impressive, nice work. If I read it right running 33mm chokes. Is your bottom end apart from pistons std.? 

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: seniorchristo on Monday,November 27, 2017, 09:10:40 AM
 :newhere: Hello fellow Lotus owners and enthusiasts!  My name is Chris Herr and although I only own an Elan ::), I do share a great interest in Europas having driven one as early as 1975.  I was drawn to this forum because I was befriended by Glen and follow with great interest his restorations and his all things Lotus enthusiasm.
I will soon be rebuilding a twincam motor and wish to use cams  similar or the same as in Glen's S1 Elan.  These are Kent BLF46.  280 degrees duration, .380 inches valve lift.  Burton Power describes the power band as 2000-7000, ideal for my purposes. Once Glen works out his low speed bugs I will be convinced to use these cams.  Thank you Glen for an excellent and detailed restoration thread! 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,November 27, 2017, 09:31:13 AM
 :Welcome: , seniorchristo!


I wouldn't say that you "only an Elan." I love my Europa but I have warmed up a lot to them as I got older.


Hopefully you can get your own Europa some time!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,November 27, 2017, 07:05:42 PM
 :Welcome: hey Chris, glad your here and I look forward to your guidance in the additional tuning of my Weber carbs on my Élan and your continued friendship while I rebuild my Europa. Stop over at my Lotus garage anytime!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,December 03, 2017, 10:44:49 AM
I'm a bit behind in my posts.  Was sidetracked by building a 1/10th scale Lotus 102B RC car in my spare spare time  :beerchug:

My friend Drew has taken over the rebuild of the 352 transaxle as I have been insanely busy at work and traveling way too much. He is also a much better mechanic than I am and fusses over the details, which is hugely important in rebuilding a transaxle. So the transaxle is over at Drew's shop and he has been working on it nights during the week while I am flying around the planet.

The aluminum casing was very pitted from salt air moisture when it sat in FL for a couple of years.  Had it soda blasted but it only took the major pitting off, the all the little stuff.  Tumbling the casing would have smoothed things out, but its expensive.  So we decided silver spray paint was the way to go.

Some test fitting of the bearings and then everything assembled on the main shaft.  Needed to order a new reverse switch from RD Enterprises as the old one was broken (one of the spade plugs gone).


Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,December 03, 2017, 11:04:12 AM
Glad to hear you're making progress. There's no shame in spray painting your tranny case. Even Fosse did it for 7upJohn's car that was the focus of two of the old Overhaulin' shows.

Hopefully you'll get more time to play soon!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,December 03, 2017, 12:23:08 PM
Yesterday was the start to reassemble the front suspension pieces.  I always do a "dry fit" to ensure everything is ready for final assembly, then take it all apart and finish the last details (painting of aluminum pieces, plating nuts & bolts that have been media blasted) and during reassembly use never-seize on all nuts and bolts. It's labor intensive, but the results turn out the way I like.

My friend Bruce came over and helped with compressing the 10" springs on the front shocks and took over the disassembly of the left front caliper.  Both calipers were seized and I'm doing complete strip down, paint and rebuild of them.



 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,December 03, 2017, 12:31:37 PM
Went over to Drew's garage this morning to deliver the new reverse switch for the transaxle and check up on the progress. All the exterior aluminum was soda blasted and painted silver. The bearings and gears were reassembled on the main shaft and that is when we ran into a problem. One of the new bearings I ordered is not the same width and there is too much play in the shaft.  Seems there are two types of roller bearings for this part and I need to get the wider version which has a different prefix on the model number. Two steps forward, one step back.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,December 03, 2017, 12:35:00 PM
Impressive, nice work. If I read it right running 33mm chokes. Is your bottom end apart from pistons std.?

Thanks. Quicksilver is one of the best in the US regarding the quality of the work they do. Yes, running 33mm chokes. Steel crank, new bearings and pistons.  The rods were brand new from the previous rebuild and we kept them as they were already upgraded (I honestly don't remember who's they were).
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,December 03, 2017, 03:58:08 PM
That tranny looks great! Hopefully you'll get your bearing and get your tranny together soon. Those AVOs look great, too! What spring rates are you running?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Sunday,December 03, 2017, 04:37:01 PM
Ditto what BDA said .... tranny looks  great , post some part numbers, vendor and prices of the shocks and springs .
How did the assembly of the spring go ?
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,December 04, 2017, 02:19:04 AM
That tranny looks great! Hopefully you'll get your bearing and get your tranny together soon. Those AVOs look great, too! What spring rates are you running?

Springs are:

Front 2" 10 x 150
Rear 2" 12 x 115
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,December 04, 2017, 02:27:28 AM
Ditto what BDA said .... tranny looks  great , post some part numbers, vendor and prices of the shocks and springs .
How did the assembly of the spring go ?
Dakazman

I'll do a full write-up with the details on the transaxle rebuild when its completed in another post just for the transaxle (this has been requested before)

The installation of the springs went fine.  I have a set of motorcycle spring compressors as normal spring compressors for cars are too big. My friend Bruce had this great idea of putting the whole assembly (spring compressors, shocks and springs) in the vice to hold the spring compressors in place while we ratcheted the springs tighter.  Worked like a charm. 

The shocks and springs came from Dave Bean. They dyno them before shipping out.

Front AVO adjustable shocks:  074C 9040  $239 each
Rear AVO adjustable shocks:  074D 9040   $239 each
Front springs: 1000CB0150 $66 each
Rear springs: 1200CB0115  $67 each
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,December 09, 2017, 02:43:24 PM
I've gotta tell you, anything I order from Eastwood shows up on my doorstep the next day......sometimes even the same day.  I wanted to paint my calipers silver but only had engine paint that was good for 400 degrees. Not good enough for the brake calipers so I went on-line to Eastwood's website and found what I was looking for. Hi temp paint that will handle 1400 degrees. That ought to do it.

Wiped the media blasted and rebuilt front brake calipers clean with lacquer thinner, masked off the areas that do not get painted and sprayed three coats of paint.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,December 09, 2017, 07:36:23 PM
Great job!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,December 10, 2017, 07:09:31 AM
Looks great.

No need for high heat paint on brake calipers.  We use plain old industrial paint with no issues.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,December 11, 2017, 04:54:50 AM
Looks great.

No need for high heat paint on brake calipers.  We use plain old industrial paint with no issues.

Your probably right JB, but I’m one of those “do it right the first time” kind of guys on my rebuilds.

Brake rotors and pads in street use typically won't see temperatures exceeding about 400 degrees,  however on track days where the brakes are continuously burdened, temperatures can exceed about a 1000 degrees Fahrenheit, pretty easily. As the caliper is a heat sink in this application, the temperatures will be less for the caliper.

I had a conversation with my friend Drew about this before I painted the calipers and he strongly recommended hi-temp paint as it is more durable for this application. As he restores very expensive sports cars for a living I generally go with what ever he recommends as I rarely find Drew to be incorrect on the subject matter of restorations.

All that being said, I do appreciate all the input others provide. I’m a data junkie and like three or more data points before coming to an absolute conclusion.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: buzzer on Monday,December 11, 2017, 05:24:10 AM
Another way to look at it is DOT 4 brake fluid boils at 440F.. 230c  or us over here (racing fluid will be a bit higher). so if you hammer your brakes to the point of brake fade then they may get hotter than 400F. so if you are going track the car then a paint that can cope with 500 or 600F+ would seem sensible.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,December 11, 2017, 05:38:03 AM
As I want the front suspension parts that I am painting silver to match, the hi-temp paint is being used on a number of parts. A bit of over-kill but they will have the same finish.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,December 11, 2017, 06:53:42 AM
No quibbles with your paint choice.  Just didn't want people to think they had to use high heat paint.  We have been using Rust-Oleum industrial paints on street calipers and have never had any issue in 30 years.

Brake fade is not caused by brake fluid boiling.  If your brake fluid boils, your brakes don't fade, they disappear completely and the pedal goes straight to the floor.  It doesn't come back until you bleed the air out of the system.  Brake fade is when the brake system components are no longer able to maintain the same stopping power/pedal force ratio due to heat. An explanation can be found here:

https://ebcbrakes.com/articles/what-is-brake-fade/
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: buzzer on Monday,December 11, 2017, 07:29:59 AM
Yes you are correct bad choice of term.
If there is water in your brake fluid the boiling point drops significantly. From what I can remember they will come back when the fluid cools tho.. anyhow boiling the fluid using means there is water in the system so you should change it anyhow...
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,December 11, 2017, 08:50:26 AM
On the topic of caliper temperatures, one thing that does strike me is that should you use "normal" paint then hitting 200C is likely to show indication of overheating, maybe tinting the colour slightly.

The reason I mention it is because the rubber piton seals will have a limited temperature range and are more likely to harden when operating at elevated temperatures. I've no idea on the temperature limits of the rubbers used these days but I'd guess that if you expect to see >200C then you're going to be changing seals on a regular basis.

So John's use of conventional paint might actually be a better system in that when the paint looks heated it's time to change seals ! 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Monday,December 11, 2017, 12:26:07 PM
Talking of overheating brakes, on the 1986 Manx International Rally, there was a 12 mile stage with lots of braking. I was driving a near standard Toyota Corolla AE86. After 10 miles, the brakes were useless, and I could not brake in time to go 60' right at a grass large triangle roundabout on to a main road to the finish, so I had to drive over the grass on to the main road. Then after a 2 mile blast down the main road, the brakes had cooled enough to stop at the finish to get your time.

I think we did that stage 3 or 4 times, and that brake fade happened every time at the same place. Those were vented discs with high temp brake pads (DS11s).
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,December 11, 2017, 12:49:33 PM
Had a friend who went racing with his Sunbeam Tiger (great big heavy lump of a V8 up front).  First lap he was the fastest thing out there.  Second lap his brake pedal hit the floor approaching a hairpin after a long straight.  He upgraded his brakes considerably but he was never as fast again.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,December 11, 2017, 03:10:23 PM
Brakes are more important than anything else on a track car. I upgraded my Exige S brakes to AP Racing big brake kit and hi temp brake fluid. Reduced my lap times significantly......

Even my go kart had brakes that would stop you on a dime.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,December 11, 2017, 04:19:28 PM
You can't go fast if you're worried about stopping!


Nice picture!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Monday,December 11, 2017, 04:44:18 PM
I’ve experienced the same as John’s friend with the Sunbeam Tiger.
At Calder Raceway in Melbourne, all was fine for the first lap but the brakes faded nearly completely after that.

I found the need to adjust the rear brakes up after every race.
At home I had those rear brakes apart many times, checking operation, hydraulics, changing brake shoe material and never did solve the issue.

At Sandown track the brakes performed better; not perfect, but better.
I remember a friends wife in an Elan easily out-braked me at the end of the back straight. She’s a decent steerer and just sailed past.

All this is to say that for track days I reckon one could spend far less on brakes than a power upgrade and get a better overall result.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,December 11, 2017, 05:57:06 PM
Back to work on Europa parts. Cleaned all the grease off the u-joints on my half shafts in my parts cleaner, carefully wrapped the ends of the half shafts and media blasted the surface rust off the shaft. Wiped everything clean with lacquer thinner and spray painted with Eastwood black chassis paint (See before and after photo).
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,December 16, 2017, 03:33:07 PM
Got back from my West Coast trip late last night to find my transaxle bearing from 123bearing arrived from France. The bearing I’m replacing is an SNF bearing but 123Bearing told me the Timken bearing with same model number is correct. The main concern was the race depth which is important to the entire transaxle fit. No room for error.

Degreased the left half shaft, media blasted the surface rust, wiped clean with Lacquer thinner and painted with Eastwood Chassis black. Will do three coats.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Saturday,December 16, 2017, 07:33:18 PM
The photos appear to show that the bearings are not identical.  Photos can be deceiving so measure it up carefully.  I got my transaxle bearings from MecaParts by crossing to Renault part numbers.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,December 16, 2017, 09:44:53 PM
JB, you would be correct the bearings are different. The new Timken bearing has more roller bearings than the SNF and the overall design is a bit different, but the diamentions are correct. I thought the same when I opened the box and first saw it. Took a micrometer to it (you can see a part of it on the table) to confirm diamensions.

So I am thinking this should work. What do you think?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Sunday,December 17, 2017, 04:43:45 AM
Looks like the Timken bearing has a slightly higher load rating (55 kN vs 45 kN, assuming SNR is quoting the 1 million cycle ratings)
file:///C:/Users/tegan/Downloads/PDFTechnicalSheet32304A.pdf
https://cad.timken.com/item/all-product-types/tapered-roller-bearings-ts-tapered-single-metric-2/item-25564
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,December 17, 2017, 06:53:12 AM
If it measures up the same, a higher load rating is a plus.  Regardless, check your ring/pinion contact pattern carefully.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Sunday,December 17, 2017, 09:59:18 AM
For what ever it's worth, I found this place http://www.consbrgs.com/search.html has many manufacturer's bearings in stock and also has specialty and obscure sizes. They also have inexpensive bearings from "alternative manufacturers" (Chinese?). A project I was working on needed some thin section NSK specialty bearings that were quoted at $400 each and 8 week lead time. We took a chance on in-stock $80 knock-offs since it was a non-critical application and they worked just fine. "Bearings is bearings" I think someone said. I'm not sure I am fully convinced of that, but time will tell.
t
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,December 17, 2017, 04:08:32 PM
Surfguitar58, yes the Timken are a higher load rating. When I was searching for the correct bearing I reached out to three bearing suppliers. Two of them were Chinese (which was not evident from their websites) and both wrote back to me that they don’t have the bearing in stock but would make them for me. I declined. I know that 123Bearing carries quality made bearings from known manufacturers.

JB, will be very careful of the contact pattern. Not a lot of room for error in a Transaxle assembly. Thanks.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,December 17, 2017, 04:27:52 PM
Today was planned to be final assembly of the left front suspension of the Europa. All the parts have been painted and all I needed to do was replate all the bolts, nuts and washers plus put never-seize on everything and bolt it all up. I was also replacing the bearings in the hub as I had full rebuild kits for that (or so I thought).

My friend Chris came over to help (as well as work on the Weber carbs of the twin Cam engine he bought from me).

The plating of the bolts, nuts and washers is like a surgical procedure (Eastwood makes a nice plating kit). Everything has to be super clean and prepped for plating. Once plated needs to be washed and then polished by hand (no buffing wheels allowed). Thank goodness Chris was here as the process went much faster.

I removed the bearings from the hubs, reinstalled the new races, packed the new tapered roller bearings with grease and realized the rebuild kit I got didn’t have the metal seal for the inner bearing (where the felt fits). Never fails, one small part stops the progress. Will order tomorrow.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,December 17, 2017, 05:28:54 PM
I always reuse the metal run for the felt seal.  Why would you change it?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,December 17, 2017, 05:31:08 PM
Forgive me for repeating myself.  90+% of the time, the supplied felt is TOO thick.  If you use it the bearings will not seat on the spindle properly.  I almost always reuse the old felts.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,December 17, 2017, 06:14:51 PM
JB, the metal ring was bent up. It was evident that someone had previously replaced the bearings (another mystery for this “low mileage car”) and struggled to get them out. I can probably straighten it out, but if a new one is available that would be my preference.

Funny that you mention the felt. I was comparing the original to the new replacement I noted the difference in depth, telling myself I need to check the web site for information on this. Thanks for the insight, saved me again!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,December 18, 2017, 08:49:29 PM
Merry Merry!

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,December 19, 2017, 05:23:34 AM
Merry Merry back at you, Certified!!

Nice collection of Loti you have there! A shiny "new" Europa will be a great addition soon!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,December 19, 2017, 09:22:50 AM
BDA, the black Elise was my first Lotus. I traded it in a year later for a black Exige S that I built into a track car (totaled it in the rain at NJMP 3 years later). Bought the Silver Exige S and built that into another track car. Sold it when I retired my membership at NJMP. That’s when I switched to early Lotus cars to restore. Yes, the Yellow Europa will look great in the snow next to my BRG Elan S1. (I never photographed my red Elan S4 in the snow).
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,December 19, 2017, 09:52:01 AM
Even better Photshop picture! Sorry to hear of your totaling your Exige! That must have hurt!

Keep looking to the future with cars from the past!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,December 19, 2017, 03:23:35 PM
Merry Christmas guys 😀
I missed the pic, da**,

Sooner or later we will need new felt , I tossed mine by it looked like a washer. I wish now I would have taken JB advice , so where do I go from here ?

Nice job btw certified. I’m at that same point with the suspension.

Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,December 23, 2017, 02:47:02 AM
Dakazman, there are actually two “washers” one is a very thin black one and the other is the felt one. I have left over new felt ones that will need a small amount of trimming your welcome to have if you pm your mailing address. Hopefully you kept the black washers.

By the way, my friend Drew says never throw anything away until you are done with the build. He has been proven right many many times.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Saturday,December 23, 2017, 06:32:11 AM
 If your still apart , can you take a picture of those items, I do have a box of miscellaneous items it might be in.  Give me a few days to find. Big thanks in advance.
Merry Christmas
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,December 23, 2017, 11:11:09 AM
If your still apart , can you take a picture of those items, I do have a box of miscellaneous items it might be in.  Give me a few days to find. Big thanks in advance.
Merry Christmas
Dakazman

Here you go:

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,December 23, 2017, 01:12:06 PM
The assembly of the transaxle was planned for today at Drew’s garage.  Careful measuring of all tolerances against the info in the shop manual (and remembering JB’s comment on checking  the ring/pinion contact pattern carefully). Getting the preload right and the pinion drag. Opened up the bag for the new oil seals where the stub axles are located and.........they are the wrong size.

The OEM seals are 36 x 52 x 7. The replacements are 36 x 54 x 11. ARRGGH! This is the second time I have ordered a part for the transaxle that isn’t the right one. Of course replacements are readily available on- line but it’s Christmas weekend and no chance of getting these by tomorrow.

Note to self......open every bag/box of new parts and take a micrometer to the part to confirm it’s the right size. These seals have been sitting in my garage for 2 months......

Oh well, I certainly have enough to do on other parts of the chassis assembly.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,December 23, 2017, 01:22:01 PM
Update from the body shop. Most of the paint has been sanded off the car. Now the repair of spider cracks and filling in the holes for the side marker lights and antenna. Plus a part of the firewall was a bit soft and needs some reinforcement along with the the battery tray rebuild due to acid leak from the battery.



Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,December 23, 2017, 01:41:47 PM
In spite of the fact you're having problems getting the right size bearings and seals for your tranny, you seem to be making pretty good progress!

I'm thinking about rebuilding my tranny. Where did you order your seals and bearings?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,December 23, 2017, 02:26:06 PM
BDA, 123 Bearing in France has most of what you need and JB suggests MecaParts. I plan on creating a separate 352 Transaxle rebuild Post once it is completed. I have found that 123 is very helpful on the phone.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,December 27, 2017, 04:23:07 PM
Got one of my son's (Ryan) to help this morning media blasting and electroplating nuts, bolts and washers.  I bolted the front left disc to the hub, greased up the axle, got the bearings in place, made sure the felt was aligned properly and bolted up the hub to the axle. Then I took Ryan's plated bolts and lock washers and polished them before installing the caliper and installing the brake pads, shims, pins and cotter pins. Looks good to me!


 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Wednesday,December 27, 2017, 04:36:31 PM
Congrats to Ryan.... helping, even holding a flashlight, torch in England, is where I started and have great memories of all the time with my father. Can’t wait to see those bolts . I have 4 daughters ,the
Youngest will design a graphic for the inside of the bonnet... maybe Ratfink or Betty boop 😀.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,December 28, 2017, 07:20:25 PM
Dakazman, your absolutely right about the memories, and hopefully some learning  8)

Stopped by Drew’s garage to use his hydraulic press to remove the races in the right front hub. Drew had the 352 Transaxle all assembled and tested. Just waiting for the delivery of the two stub axle seals before completed. Typical of Drew’s work, everything to perfection.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Friday,December 29, 2017, 05:17:31 AM
Certified
Your tranny looks great.

I read you might be going with black, still true? Those spider cracks were a bear to repair. I stopped drilled all legs and center , sanded both sides and reglassed . After painting mine I found two small blisters and paint lifting. These were caused by a void under the surface in glass .defects no bigger than 3/8 inch and varied in shape.I repaired all , but these are extremely hard and frustrating to find later . I believe there is a roller or tap test but even that is unreliable.

Have a Happy and safe New Year
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,December 29, 2017, 07:49:54 AM
That's a purty tranny you got there, Certified!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,December 29, 2017, 08:55:21 PM
Dakazman, your right......I was going to paint the transaxle black and then I changed my mind while buying paint.  Owners prerogative  :FUNNY:

Yes, spider cracks are the devil to remove. But easy for me 'cause I have Dave doing the work!  I don't do body work or engine machining.  I leave those projects to the experts who have the skill, tools and lots of experience. Everything else I can do. I am in awe of anyone who does body work and painting at home. So big respect to you Dakazman  :trophy:

Thanks BDA!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,December 29, 2017, 09:11:16 PM
More progress over the last two days.  Rethreaded the rear bearing carriers and prepped for paint. Lots of media blasting and painting.  Old bearings pulled and new ones installed on the right front hub.  More electroplating of bolts, nuts and washers. My oldest son got wise after one afternoon plating parts, he was completely unavailable to help again with this. Luckily I have another son (Colin) who could be bribed to work with me on plating hundreds of parts for most of the evening.  Although I don't think I could get him to do it again.

Disassembly of the right caliper which was in worse shape than the left. Got the piston out of one half, but not the other.  I've tried the pumping grease, using compressed air and heating up the aluminum caliper. Nothing has budged that piston. Now have it soaking in penetrating oil.

I also showed Colin how to pack grease into bearings and prep bare metal for painting. All the boring stuff before the fun of assembly.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropatcSPECIAL on Saturday,December 30, 2017, 04:28:54 AM
Im impressed certified, good selection of photographs
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,December 30, 2017, 05:45:52 AM
It's nice to have a helper. It's even nicer to have two helpers for when one of them is unavailable!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Saturday,December 30, 2017, 07:23:15 PM
Glen,  assuming you'll be replacing the stuck puck with stainless, I use an air hammer/chisel on mine and that seems to get them budged and moving enough to get out.   
Your progress on the car is exciting me and tempting me to go out into the cold garage and get those brakes done on my JPS.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,January 01, 2018, 02:24:17 PM
Im impressed certified, good selection of photographs

Thanks EuropatcSpecial. I figured that if I'm going to do a full frame off rebuild might as well give everyone as much info as possible.

Ted, yes I did replace the caliper pistons with Stainless (detailed rebuild photos to follow)

BDA, the "helpers" need to be in the right mood to be of any value. Never the less, I am always grateful to have my son's in the shop helping.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,January 01, 2018, 02:32:06 PM
While I am dealing with the problem of the right front suspension lower wishbone twisting while I turn the vertical link I decided to finish the rebuild of the right caliper now that the silver paint has cured (to take my mind off the problem I can't seem to solve and have posted for help under another subject of: lower wishbones).

For those that have never rebuild a girling brake caliper, its really quite easy as long as you have the rebuild kits and know to "blow out" the pistons with compressed air or grease before splitting the casing.  It used to be said NEVER split the casing.....but I think that is because the round flat o-ring was difficult to get and you couldn't reuse the old one. If your going to completely rebuild these you have to split the casing to properly clean the area the piston sits in. And painting the entire casing split is so much easier. Rule number one: clean is essential. Rule number two: use lots of special red brake grease to coat everything internal.

Here are two photos of the trunnion greased up to install on the vertical link, the vertical link installed on the right side and a series of photos of the caliper rebuild:

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,January 01, 2018, 08:38:55 PM
A-arm twist is due to bent upright.

If you split the calipers you must fit a new seal between the two halves.  No, not any old o-ring will do.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,January 02, 2018, 11:04:09 AM
A-arm twist is due to bent upright.

If you split the calipers you must fit a new seal between the two halves.  No, not any old o-ring will do.

JB I’m fairly certain you are correct on the bent upright (although I have tried two used ones and both do the same. Odd that both are bent). Will know in a couple of days when I replacement shows up.

Yes on the new seal, this is a must!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,January 07, 2018, 01:46:11 PM
Received my new right side vertical link (upright) from RD Enterprises, took off the one installed on the right front suspension, removed the axle and compared the two uprights side by side. YUP, JB was right, bent upright.  Then I took the other used right upright I had and put them next to each other. Amazing, one upright is bent at the threaded end and the other upright is bent at the top end. Two bent right side uprights.......and they were from separate cars. 

Cleaned the new upright with lacquer thinner, masked off the areas that don't get painted and painted it silver. Once the paint has cured I will install and finish up the right side suspension.

 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,January 13, 2018, 12:15:49 PM
With the paint cured on the right upright, I reassembled the right side suspension and disc brakes. Greased everything that required it and put never seize on all threaded bolts.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,January 13, 2018, 12:22:38 PM
Now I'm ready to rebuild the steering rack.  Everything I have taken apart that had grease in it was a mess due to the car being stored so long.  So every part on the car needs to be disassembled, cleaned in the parts cleaner, greased with modern lubricants and reassembled. Care needs to be taken regarding the number of washer shims for each side of the rack, don't confuse the L and R sides and keep track of them. Install new ball joints (they are cheap).  I am going to paint the rack the same color as the brake calipers.


Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,January 13, 2018, 01:00:04 PM
You should be ok using the same shims on your tie rod adjustment but you should check the tension or resistance on moving the tie rod before you lock everything down. IIRC, the manual specifies 7 lbs. force needed to move the tie rod. Light resistance seems like a good idea, but it is not. I know from experience. Use a spring scale of some sort.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,January 13, 2018, 01:11:26 PM
BDA, my manual says 2 Ibs? I used a fish scale to measure force the last time I rebuilt a rack.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Saturday,January 13, 2018, 01:53:16 PM
Use semi-fluid grease or gear oil to lube the rack, not chassis grease.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,January 14, 2018, 06:56:11 AM
Use semi-fluid grease or gear oil to lube the rack, not chassis grease.

JB, this is the grease I use for chassis and steering rack assembly. Your suggesting it is too thick?

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,January 14, 2018, 07:43:23 AM
Yes.  You can just dilute it with gear oil and it will be ok.  Air has to flow from side to side and it won’t if it is packed with lots of thick grease.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,January 14, 2018, 12:37:18 PM
Thanks JB, another lesson learned from you  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,January 14, 2018, 12:52:02 PM
Seems someone previously had this steering rack apart as the capture nuts and the large spacer nuts where loctite on. Took a torch to unthread them. I doubt they came from the factory that way......

A number of the internal parts had some rust on them and everything had a black gooey thick grease on it.

Everything is now stripped apart and cleaned.  The sleeve bushing at the end of the rack housing looks ok so I'm not going to replace it. The rack housing needed some more media blasting before painting.  As I had spent an hour getting the inside of the housing very clean in my parts cleaner, I masked off all the openings before putting inside my media blaster. 

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Sunday,January 14, 2018, 05:21:14 PM
 That’s really coming along , very nice work.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Sunday,January 14, 2018, 07:41:48 PM
All I know about the steering rack is what I see in Serge's excellent video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi_UhwxRnMs [although I have to say, we should all pitch in and buy him a proper arbor press and a gear puller and ask him to put away that damn hammer]). I don't see the need for air to transit the rack tube as dakazman suggests. It seems to me that runny lube would just ooze out of the steering box and end up collecting in the bellows at either end. I stand to be corrected, but wouldn't a waxy grease have better staying power where it's needed - the rack and pinion interface?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,January 14, 2018, 08:53:44 PM
If you pack a rack tight with thick grease, as the rack moves through its range, one boot will blow up like a balloon and the other collapse.  I suppose you could leave the clamps loose and then you would suck outside material into the rack.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,January 14, 2018, 09:01:02 PM
I have seen a rack on a race car that had a tube between the belloows for that reason.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Sunday,January 14, 2018, 11:30:31 PM
Took a torch to unthread them. I doubt they came from the factory that way......

All 4 of the ones I have pulled apart needed heat. Factory glued.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Monday,January 15, 2018, 05:28:28 AM
Surfguitar ...????). I don't see the need for air to transit the rack tube as dakazman suggests.
Who said what?

Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,January 15, 2018, 05:49:09 AM
It was JB who said to thin the grease so air could move from one side of the rack to the other. Makes sense as it’s a close tolerance fit.

Got some painting of steering rack parts done last night.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,January 15, 2018, 05:57:45 AM
Of course it’s always a part needed that holds up the reassembly. I tried to be very careful in bending back the tabs on the lock rings that hold the threaded spacers in place with the lock nut on the rack. Unfortunately one tab broke off on one and on the other the tabs are cracked. Will order replacements.

4129R, good to know that loctite was used from the factory. I didn’t see it mentioned in the shop manual regarding reassembly.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,January 15, 2018, 06:02:13 AM
Yahoo! Just realized that 500 posts makes me a hero member  :trophy: :trophy: :trophy:

Guess I’ll have to sharpen up my level of work now that I have some status........
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,January 15, 2018, 06:28:08 AM
All right! Another Hero member!!! :trophy:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,January 15, 2018, 06:33:09 AM
I’ve got a long way to go to catch up to you BDA. Glad to be part of the Europa community!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,January 16, 2018, 05:42:21 AM
 :beerchug: Congratulations  :beerchug:

dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: buzzer on Tuesday,January 16, 2018, 08:23:13 AM
Yep I needed heat too to get them apart as I swapped the extension pieces over from a LH rack to a RH rack.

And only another 20 posts to go before I become a Hero!  :beerchug:

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,January 16, 2018, 09:26:12 AM
Go for it, buzzer!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Tuesday,January 16, 2018, 10:12:59 AM
Yep I needed heat too to get them apart as I swapped the extension pieces over from a LH rack to a RH rack.


I use a Triumph Herald RHD steering rack casing, and swap all the parts over.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,January 27, 2018, 12:38:32 PM
Steering rack assembly day.  I used JB's advise and made a nice mixture of grease and gear oil. Lubricated everything and reassembled. Need to be careful to clean the threaded parts (I use M600 which is a paint prep cleaner, but it works better than anything else) after greasing everything and fitting as loctite needs to be used. Got everything reassembled and tested the drag at 2 lbs. Perfect the first time (amazing).

Bolted the rack on the front of the chassis with the refinished brackets and installed the steel braided brake lines.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,January 27, 2018, 01:45:56 PM
Nicely done! I like the colors! In your third picture, it appears as though you are loktiting a joint with lock tabs. There's nothing wrong with a belt and suspenders approach.

Good to see things are moving apace.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,January 27, 2018, 01:58:15 PM
Thanks BDA. I put loctite on where I found it originally. I also thought it was overkill with the locking tabs......but if it came from the factory that way I was going to do the same.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,January 28, 2018, 03:05:37 PM
Moved to the back of the chassis and started installing the suspension arms and motor mounts. I want to get the chassis on its wheels before installing the engine and transaxle (both have been completely rebuilt). Any bolts, nuts and washers I replace I use grade 8. Just a habit from running track cars. And I use washers even if there weren't any originally. (Colin would not be happy that I'm adding weight). Never seize is always by my side. Sometimes a beer too  :beerchug: Happened across the chassis serial number and took a photo for the sake of documentation.

I'm waiting to hear if the rear disc brakes will be built this winter by Michael Olsson at MIO Engineering in Denmark. The thread about his building this started in March 2017.   Another month and I will look for a different solution.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,January 28, 2018, 05:34:48 PM
If I understand what you're saying, you won't be able to put wheels on your frame without your engine and tranny. I'm not sure why it's important to you. I don't remember whether I put my engine and tranny in before or after I mounted the body on the frame. I think that's your choice.

But maybe I'm misunderstanding your plans...
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,January 29, 2018, 01:13:02 AM
BDA, I was going to install the engine and transaxle in the chassis before putting the body back on. But first I want to get the wheels on as it’s much easier to roll the chassis around then moving it on the lift. Make sense?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,January 29, 2018, 05:30:00 AM
Yeah. It sounded like you were planning to have a bare rolling frame (without engine and tranny) which can't be done without some way of attaching the inner rear suspension to something. It reminded me of when Serge was planning to modify his cross member with the expectation that he would be able to take his tranny out and still have a roller (or something like that) and I reminded him that wasn't going to work. It's easy to get crossed up like that because you would be able to have a rolling frame with almost any other car (your Elan for example). I didn't want you to go down a rat hole but I probably shouldn't have worried since you certainly would have figured it out quickly. it's a very shallow rat hole!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Monday,January 29, 2018, 05:38:30 AM
BDA, I was going to install the engine and transaxle in the chassis before putting the body back on. But first I want to get the wheels on as it’s much easier to roll the chassis around then moving it on the lift. Make sense?

Stick the car on a wooden pallet which has 6" castor wheels and the car goes anywhere very easily.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Monday,January 29, 2018, 07:12:46 AM
Looking good Certified! I'm probably a customer for the rear disc conversion also, if I can see the design first.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: seniorchristo on Monday,January 29, 2018, 03:04:55 PM
Glen,
It looks like your left sway bar link is has a different curvature than the right one.  Or could it be camera angles and/or failing eyesight? :confused:
Chris
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,January 29, 2018, 05:15:36 PM
Good eyes Chris, the left and right sides of the sway bar are not the same. I was wondering same but needed to see a stock one before I started bending.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,January 31, 2018, 07:07:31 AM
Got an update from the body shop on the continued sanding of my Europa body.  Now I need to focus on removing the window frame trim from the doors and get them to the body shop.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Wednesday,January 31, 2018, 09:34:56 AM
glen, are you deleting the front and rear bumpers too?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,January 31, 2018, 10:33:55 AM
glen, are you deleting the front and rear bumpers too?

I hope not Ted, I had them rechromed for a pretty penny......
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Thursday,February 01, 2018, 05:13:03 PM
Certified,
Rear side markers filling in , what do you have planned???
What is the shops target date? All looking great from the pics and I hope they don’t find to many unexpected surprises.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,February 01, 2018, 05:51:26 PM
Dakazman, I’m deleting all the side marker lights and the antenna hole. I did the same on my Black Exige S as I like the cleaner lines. The small design changes make all the difference.

I’m hoping for early summer completion of painting.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Friday,February 02, 2018, 08:47:55 AM
yes, clean lines, but to each their own I guess.    Actually, I like the visibility, especially side view, for safety reasons, but also the entirety of the lighting.   At early evening before dusk, I like driving with my parking lights on.   It make for a good photography moment as well, seeing all those lights on.    I like lights, but again, that's why they make vanilla AND chocolate! :)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Friday,February 02, 2018, 04:48:01 PM
Certified,
I was thinking about doing the same thing , you now have the option to add any style light , or none as you see fit .
I remember inspection stations up there .I now enjoy Florida’s no inspection policy however the police write tickets very fast. No hood , that’s fine .. no doors that’s ok, old blind people, that’s also fine.
Loud exhaust or light out 4 tickets by the time you get home.

Dakazman
Only kidding about the old blind people.😀
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,February 02, 2018, 05:06:30 PM
Dakazman I doubt the local police know that a Lotus Europa should even have side lights. My Elan never had them. My 2007 track prepped Exige S had them removed and anytime I got stopped (never got a ticket, the cops just wanted to look at the car. They couldn’t believe it was street legal) it was never questioned.

With historic plates, inspection is once and done (with photos).

Ted, I think I have driven my 64 Elan twice in the last three years in the dark. These cars are not “daily drivers”. And you know me well enough to know that I march to the beat of a different drummer. I build my cars they way I want them to look and perform.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: buzzer on Friday,February 02, 2018, 11:58:28 PM
I think the colour of the car has more to do with it than those silly reflectors.
No requirement to have those reflectors here and we have the safest roads in Europe.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,February 03, 2018, 10:29:29 AM
Painted the bearing carriers this morning in preparation for assembly with new bearings.

Also got my tool and parts bag back from having a couple of Lotus patches sewn on (they sewed them crooked but didnt charge me. It’s going in the boot so it’s not highly visible). I have one of these for my Elan too. They are nice to store the jack, some hand tools, an extra fan belt, quart of oil and an oil filter (at least that’s what I put in them).

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,February 03, 2018, 02:08:23 PM
I like the tool bag and from your picture, any misalignment isn't noticeable.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,February 04, 2018, 05:36:07 AM
Installation of bearings, spacer and seal in the hub bearing carrier went easily.  The bearings dropped right in and the seal required pressing in.  After thinking about it a bit more figured I needed to go back and use some Loctite to adhere the bearing to the hub (I was concerned they should not be able to spin inside the hub housing).

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Sunday,February 04, 2018, 06:59:09 AM
that's an interesting press there Glen.   non-hydraulic and all muscle?   what's the tonnage comparison to hydraulic?   have you ever been unable to use it effectively?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,February 04, 2018, 07:38:52 AM
If the bearings are slip in fit with absolutely no play, then it's fine to use loctite to secure them.  If the bearings are at all loose in their bores, then you will have to have the uprights machined and sleeved.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,February 04, 2018, 08:00:13 AM
that's an interesting press there Glen.   non-hydraulic and all muscle?   what's the tonnage comparison to hydraulic?   have you ever been unable to use it effectively?

Arbor press Ted. The gearing in it creates the proper leverage. I use it for pressing seals and bearing fits that are delicate. The problem with a hydraulic press (without a gauge) is you don’t realize the amount of force your using until it’s too late.

Old school equipment but works very well!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,February 04, 2018, 08:02:37 AM
If the bearings are slip in fit with absolutely no play, then it's fine to use loctite to secure them.  If the bearings are at all loose in their bores, then you will have to have the uprights machined and sleeved.

JB, no play the bore is true. Used Loctite bearing mount 620.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,February 04, 2018, 11:53:26 AM
You'll be just fine.

Remember when removing bearings to push them out square and true.  If you just wail on one side with a punch, the bearing goes out crooked and ovals the bore.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,February 04, 2018, 02:19:29 PM
You'll be just fine.

Remember when removing bearings to push them out square and true.  If you just wail on one side with a punch, the bearing goes out crooked and ovals the bore.

Interesting you would say that JB. I have never removed a bearing with a punch. Always use a socket or a piece of metal pipe if I have the right size. Also have a rather extensive bearing puller kit. And I have been known to use a piece of metal bar that fits across the outer race if I'm in a jam.  Something always fits.....but I never use a punch (this is recognizing that I have an abor press and a hydraulic press).
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,February 04, 2018, 02:31:52 PM
Engine and transaxle install day.  Always helps to have a friend over to help with this as it goes much quicker with two people.  Chris was happy to come over and be involved with all things Lotus.  He did do some weber carb work in my garage on his Elan, but mainly focused on helping me mate the transaxle to the engine and then install everything to the chassis.  Of course we were missing a few parts and a run to the local hardware store was required to acquire grade 8 bolts.

I also made a new list of parts needed to order from RD Enterprises.  Ray and George are very responsive and usually my parts arrive in 2 days. Can't restore a Lotus without RD Enterprises.   

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,February 04, 2018, 02:41:54 PM
Man, that tranny is purty!! Congratulations on making another significant milestone!!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,February 04, 2018, 02:48:35 PM
Thanks BDA! Good to make progress.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,February 05, 2018, 03:11:55 AM
Woke up this morning and the first thought that enters my brain is I forgot to re-install the water tubes in the chassis! Engine and transaxle need to come back out.........   Oh, well. I still have the hoist connected so it won’t take too long  8)

And the shift tube. What else am I forgetting?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Monday,February 05, 2018, 03:45:30 AM
Veddy veddy nice, Certified. What have you got in mind for the exhaust?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,February 05, 2018, 05:40:43 AM
Thanks Surfguitar. I ordered a complete SS system from 1st Performance and Exhausts Ltd. in Norwich, UK. Alex had them make a custom set and I added my order to his.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,February 05, 2018, 06:38:15 AM
More pretty bits for your car! She's going to be a gem!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Monday,February 05, 2018, 09:15:26 AM
When the engine is out, pass all the cables through, especially the hand brake cable, which is a real bitch with the engine in.

Connect up the cross rubber hose from the right hand tube, and get all the rubber hoses changed and the clips done up in such a way that you can get to them when the engine is in situ.

Check the engine mounting rubbers.

I stand in the engine bay and look into all the corners before putting the engine back in.

May be worth making sure the exhaust manifold can get in with the engine in place. I have 1 that needs to go in with the engine.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Monday,February 05, 2018, 11:42:09 AM
Thanks Surfguitar. I ordered a complete SS system from 1st Performance and Exhausts Ltd. in Norwich, UK. Alex had them make a custom set and I added my order to his.

Looks well made, and looks like a sensible down muffler so you can have a full trunk/boot, unlike me.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,February 05, 2018, 04:07:25 PM
When the engine is out, pass all the cables through, especially the hand brake cable, which is a real bitch with the engine in.

Connect up the cross rubber hose from the right hand tube, and get all the rubber hoses changed and the clips done up in such a way that you can get to them when the engine is in situ.

Check the engine mounting rubbers.

I stand in the engine bay and look into all the corners before putting the engine back in.

May be worth making sure the exhaust manifold can get in with the engine in place. I have 1 that needs to go in with the engine.

I don’t know what I was thinking. Just got caught up in mating the transaxle to the engine and my friend Chris was over to help so let’s get the engine in. Dumb move. But hey, we all learn from our mistakes.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,February 11, 2018, 07:01:15 PM
A full day of taking the engine out, installing grommets, the water tubes, shifter and front shifter tube, hand brake cables and associated hardware, ran oil line, re-install engine & transaxle and bolt up the rear cross member and supports. Long day. Only got it all done because Chris came over to help. We had a beer at the end to celebrate.

Some trials and tribulations along the way but figured most everything out. I kept saying to myself "I’d hate to be a mechanic who worked on these cars everyday. To many tight spaces when the car is assembled". I said to Chris, this really is a race car for the street. To which he responded, “its amazing how they engineered this car”.

Colin is probably rolling over in his grave.......I added washers where there weren’t any.

Never the less, a good day of accomplishments........  OK guys, what did I miss?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Sunday,February 11, 2018, 07:12:19 PM
Nice work Glen, but the one picture shows your hose clamps not facing down.   You may regret that later.   I just replaced all my hoses with engine in situ from underneath and it's important to have the hose clamp screws accessible from below.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,February 11, 2018, 07:23:47 PM
Thanks Ted. I was wondering about that. As I was screwing them down I kept telling myself “I probably can only access these from underneath the car when the body is on”.  Will go back and position them correctly.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Monday,February 12, 2018, 02:40:07 PM
When fitting the rear trailing arms, fit the brake pipes on the arms before you put the body back on.

They are a bitch to get at later.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,February 12, 2018, 04:54:46 PM
Great advice. Can’t tell you how much I appreciate everyone looking over my shoulder. Too bad most of you are not local. Free beer in my garage :-)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,February 18, 2018, 04:02:43 PM
It snowed last night and although it is mild out today, a good reason to fire up the propane heater in the garage and get working on the Europa. The objective for today was to get the headers installed, the generator and associated brackets and washer spacers installed, run the speedo cable thru the chassis and hopefully get the balance of the shifter linkage installed.

I had SS exhaust studs to install, but first had to remove the studs already in the head.  All came out easily except for one which the threads stripped immediately when I used my stud remover. Tried everything, the darn thing wouldn't budge. Contacted my friend Drew who said "use a torch to get the stud cherry red (not the aluminum head) and then let it cool. Use vise grips to remove.  Worked like a charm.

Chris came over to help (its always great to have another set of hands and someone to bounce ideas off of) and I set him on installing the headers while I worked on the other more mundane stuff. He put never seize on each of the studs, then installed the gaskets, finally lining up the headers to the studs and gaskets.  Of course, nothing is every as easy as it looks when your installing custom anything.  Two of the header flanges were interfering with the block threaded cap bolts. I could either go to the store and get new bolts or grind a notch in two of the flanges.  We agreed to grind.  Chris did a great job with the SS headers.

Installing the generator, bracket and spacer washers was easy.  Installing the speedo cable at the transaxle and then routing thru the chassis was also no issue (although a bit time consuming).

The shifter tubes.......well, that is another story. Ever since I bought the car I have been reading about the sloppiness of the shifter (finding gears can be a challenge) and no one (that I know of) has created a solution for the 352 four speed transaxle that make shifting more precise. Now, the original shift tubes and associated hardware that was on the car was very worn (u-joints sloppy and a few cracks in the metal holding the u-joints).  Then there was the issue of many holes drilled thru the collar of the ends of the shift tubes for worn pins.  I had another set of shift tubes from the other Europa I bought for the Weber TC engine and a third set I bought on ebay. All of them had some issue or another and none of the them were perfect.  I had thought combining the various parts and pieces would be the best solution, but after installing and looking closely Chris and I agreed that finding new OEM shift tubes would be best.  Then I could use locking nuts and drill my own holes.  By the way, I had bought the new u-joint design for between the two tubes from RD Enterprises.  Has anyone installed this in their car?

Media blasted some of the shifter parts for painting while I am on the hunt for front and rear tubes.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,February 18, 2018, 06:14:59 PM
Great write-up again! Congratulations on your progress!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Sunday,February 18, 2018, 09:51:28 PM
On the last photo, is the central steel tube in the rubber bush proud of the steel carrier ?  From what I remember the steel tube is clamped firmly between the ends of the bracket that goes on the engine block and whatever swivel movement you get comes from the rubber flexing. The engine carrier bracket shouldn't rub against the steel of the swivelling part, although looking at the groove on the lower flange it has done in the past.

Going from memory again (often dodgy in my case  ;)  ) the bush looks wrong. The bolt which clamps the swivel part in place was small, about 1/4" or thereabouts, but the bush looks to have a 1/2" central tube. Is it a suspension bush ?

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Steve_Lindford on Monday,February 19, 2018, 12:36:21 AM
Mine has worn in a similar way. The central tube drops - because of gravity and perhaps the rubber shrinks. I assumed the rubber doesnt need to flex - it just grips the sides and the inner steel shaft rotates around the bolt.

This design SEEMS so much better than the earlier S2 - I feel that if the wear is removed from all parts the system SHOULD work well - or am I being too optimistic??

When I removed my linkage - there was no nylon washer at the gear lever end - and a bit of wear everywhere - Im amazed I managed to get any gears at all!

Steve
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,February 19, 2018, 04:00:07 AM
The rubber bush has a steel sleeve that has an aluminum fitting inserted on each side. This fitting sits proud of the bracket so the entire mounting piece can move back and forth inside the bracket mounted to the engine. See photos below (I painted the metal brackets last night, they are the same as the previous photos).

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Steve_Lindford on Monday,February 19, 2018, 05:29:19 AM
I forgot about the aluminum bushes. Is there any point in putting in grub screws through into the rubber to stop the mounting sinking down - like yours has in the past - and mine...
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,February 19, 2018, 08:12:02 AM
Engines vibrate and rubber is used to isolate the vibration so your gear lever/linkage doesn't buzz and rattle.  Adding grub screws would make the rubber superfluous.  In which case, don't add grub screws, just machine up a solid bushing to replace the rubber one.  Shifting will be more precise with the downside of significantly increased noise, vibration and harshness.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,February 19, 2018, 09:39:14 AM
The rubber bush has a steel sleeve that has an aluminum fitting inserted on each side. This fitting sits proud of the bracket so the entire mounting piece can move back and forth inside the bracket mounted to the engine. See photos below (I painted the metal brackets last night, they are the same as the previous photos).
Another school day....   I never realised it was like that. Mine must have rusted together because when I pushed the bush out I thought it was just one assembly. It's still in the "keep it for reference" cupboard so I think I'll go and take a closer look tomorrow !
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,February 19, 2018, 06:05:52 PM
Installed the "A Pivot Bracket" to the bell housing (Note that you cannot add a lock washer to the bolt as the A-Pivot is too close to the bolt head and a lock washer makes the bolt head too proud interfering with the A-Pivot).  Then I installed the A-Pivot. 

I moved to the back of the transaxle to install the Reverse indent housing (which I media blasted and painted).  Then installed the protective cap over the reverse indent and the rubber bellows over the 13mm control shaft (which has a bushing on the end to make it a 15mm shaft for the shift link).

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,February 19, 2018, 06:27:44 PM
Greetings from my garage!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,February 19, 2018, 06:39:22 PM
The bolt in your pivot that you're concerned about screws into the bell housing, right? Sounds like a job for blue loctite.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,February 20, 2018, 04:03:57 AM
That is a good recommendation BDA.  I’m wondering, I have found a number of areas on the car where the bolts do not have lock washers. Did they come that way from the factory with or without any liquid adhesive like lock-tite ?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,February 20, 2018, 04:14:28 AM
My 352 Transaxle has the 13mm selector shaft, but someone put a copper sleeve on the rear of it to make it a 15mm OD. I’m guessing they did that because all that was available for new rear shifter links was the 15mm version. Does anyone else have something like this?

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,February 20, 2018, 04:28:26 AM
Here is another question for those that have seen, owned or worked on several Europa TC’s. The front and rear shift tubes (or links as they are called in the manual) are connected in the middle by a u-joint assembly. This assembly has threaded studs on each side that screw into the links (right and left threads).

I have seen three of these assemblies and links and so far each of them has the same issue. No lock nuts on the studs to secure the u-joint threaded stud to the link (once final adjustment is made). Additionally, all my links have multible holes drilled in them for pins to secure the location of the final adjustment. Some of these holes are very large suggesting bolts were used instead of pins.

My question is, if you had thin lock nuts to secure the u-joints in place, the pins would not be taking the full load each time you shifted and rotated the links. Am I thinking about this correctly?

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Tuesday,February 20, 2018, 04:33:43 AM
Looks like the light at the end of the tunnel is coming into view! That is going to be one clean machine, congrats!  :beerchug:

I'll be interested to hear if the new linkage bits noticeably improve shifting. Whoever solves the Europa awkward shift issue should win a Nobel prize.

Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,February 20, 2018, 04:52:47 AM
Thanks Tom, but I still have a long way to go. All my rebuilds have every part cleaned, repaired, painted or rebuilt/replaced. When I am done they are “new” old cars. Usually as good or better than when they came from the factory (With a few enhancements).

The 352 Transaxle has no “updated solution” for the shifting. Everyone says if you pay attention to the u-joints and bushings and adjustment it’s pretty good. The 365 Transaxle has an updated cable shifter solution that I read works nicely.

At least the shifter will function as designed from Lotus.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Tuesday,February 20, 2018, 05:49:43 AM
Additionally, all my links have multible holes drilled in them for pins to secure the location of the final adjustment. Some of these holes are very large suggesting bolts were used instead of pins.

My question is, if you had thin lock nuts to secure the u-joints in place, the pins would not be taking the full load each time you shifted and rotated the links. Am I thinking about this correctly?

Pardon my humble opinion because I'm not really familiar with the TC linkage . . just going by what I see in your pics.

The design appears to rely on the pins through the uni-joint shafts.
I expect this is so that when the uni-joints are replaced, the whole linkage is restored to OEM alignment with respect to the relationship between the front and rear sections. Presumably this is due to there being minimal adjustment available elsewhere, correct?

I'd think thin lock nuts might be of marginal benefit because you can't really apply full torque to those.
Looking at your pics, the pins seem to be small.

What is the diameter of the threaded shaft?
It's normally considered safe to use a pin that doesn't exceed one third the diameter of the shaft.
What type of pins are they? - seloc pins?

Have you considered spirol pins?
Spirol pins will accept shock loads better and they're also more forgiving of less than perfect holes.

If none of that works out I'd be sorely tempted to cut off those threaded shafts and weld on a larger diameter threaded portion . . and of course, drill/tap the bungs in the shift tubes to suit.
That way you get the benefit from using a larger pin.
And of course, you'd need to change the rod end on the swivel part to accommodate the larger shaft, but hey . .

That's my 2 cents for what it's worth.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Tuesday,February 20, 2018, 05:51:34 AM
My TC is but 13 numbers away from yours (2345R). It has a 13mm shaft too, but no bush and the link fits with no issue, so  I imagine your theory is correct.

As for the u/j, I didn't like those pins so threw them away and use Loctite and locknuts. No sign of movement yet!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Tuesday,February 20, 2018, 06:21:09 AM
Oh, and by the way....
The 365 box has the same kind of linkage as the 352, just the rear link is a bit longer.
My locknuts aren't thin, if I remember I'll take a photo when I'm  at the car later today.
The tubular bit of the bracket that holds the heim joint had slipped down over the rubber bush on my car too. I glued the bush back in place, and also fitted a washer at the bottom of the tube so it can't slip down. It's therefore not fully rubber-insulated,  but I can't say I've noticed.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Tuesday,February 20, 2018, 06:31:02 AM
Glen, you report: "Installed the "A Pivot Bracket" to the bell housing (Note that you cannot add a lock washer to the bolt as the A-Pivot is too close to the bolt head and a lock washer makes the bolt head too proud interfering with the A-Pivot).  Then I installed the A-Pivot."

Have you considered grinding the hex head down on the bolt?  Certainly grinding down the head the thickness of a lock washer will still give plenty of wrench grip and satisfy locking it down (especially if you add the Loctite)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,February 20, 2018, 06:39:24 AM
Ted, I actually did think of that but when I did the measurements the amount of material that had to be removed to fit the right size lock washer for this bolt was too much. I did research thin head cap screws and washers, but had to buy 25 at a time to get a good price. Lock-tite is a better solution.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: buzzer on Tuesday,February 20, 2018, 11:24:51 PM
On the lock nut issue, I did manage to try this when I was putting my linkage together. I could not get it to hold well enough. As soon as you put some sideways pressure to engage reverse or 5th it moved. Be good to find another solution that was easily maintainable
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,February 21, 2018, 01:43:27 AM
GavinT, Buzzer and Roger,  all interesting comments on the shift linkage. I’m scratching my head on the multiple drill holes on the shift tube (links) threaded areas as it is oblivious that the small pins broke and larger holes where drilled for larger pins. Same on the threaded stock on each side of the u-joint. I’m wondering if these were examples of bad backyard mechanics or shops who dealt with this all the time and knew what to do.

Roger used locktite and locking nuts, without pins. Buzzer couldn’t get locking nuts to hold.

GavinT raises a good question, are the threaded studs on the u-joint pre-drilled from the factory and the pin location is just for placement so the adjustment is to factory spec? I don’t know, I haven’t seen an OEM link u-joint that is new. The threaded stock is 1/2 inch and one of my u-joints has 1/8 inch holes drilled for pins and the other is smaller and larger holes for pins.

Does anyone else have further insights to the 352 Transaxle shift tube assembly?

By the way, the new u-joint assembly that RD sells doesn’t have any holes predrilled and it comes with locking nuts.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Wednesday,February 21, 2018, 07:04:44 AM
Here are my locknuts, gripping tight and I cannot imagine why not.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Wednesday,February 21, 2018, 07:50:48 AM
G'day, Certified,

If your threaded shafts are 1/2 inch, then you should be able to use a ~ 4 mm pin comfortably.

Not having any prior experience . . but the RD uni-joint assembly in your last pic doesn’t overly excite me.
Those type of assemblies are often used in race cars partly because they’re compact and easy to install - no problem.

I reckon they’d exhibit a less than useful life in a road car mainly because of the number of gear changes. The ‘legs’ of the uni-joint are quite narrow and as far as I can tell, they don’t use needle roller bearings. Is that correct.
This leads me to the worry that we’re all familiar with . . i.e. even a small amount of wear at the uni-joint is magnified greatly at the gear stick.

Having said that, it’s not clear to me that the OEM uni-joints use needle rollers either, but it looks like they might. Is that correct?

Then there’s the issue of originality.
If originality is of less importance than functionality, I’d go for a steering joint of some kind as these are more suited to the intended function IMHO.

If you’re happy to do some fabracobbling and don’t want to deal with splined shafts, then perhaps the common Double D shafts and uni-joints are worth considering.
I reckon one of these would outlast the car!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: seniorchristo on Wednesday,February 21, 2018, 10:47:19 AM
 "are the threaded studs on the u-joint pre-drilled from the factory"

Glen
Holes for roll pins would not be predrilled on replacement parts.  The parts (collar and shank) must be drilled together as a unit to ensure a tight fit for the roll pin.  I think one solution is to replace the u-joint and drill for a new roll pin while leaving enough room for a locknut.

It looks like the PO even tried to weld the u-joint shank to the collar after all else failed. ::)
Also, Pegasus sells much higher quality (and expensive) Apex universal joints solely designed for shifting.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: seniorchristo on Wednesday,February 21, 2018, 10:49:59 AM
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=1490
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,February 22, 2018, 05:44:18 AM
Thanks for all the insights and information.

Roger, good to know that retaining lock nuts work with the use of locktite. I have one original u-joint that seems to be in good condition so I may try that.

GavinT, the joint from RD is manufactured by Lovejoy who has been making Commerical unjointed since the 1940’s. It looks like they had these custom made with the threaded studs. Here is the chart regarding load factor. I think it should hold up fairly well, but might want to add the boot to keep weather off of it.

http://www.lovejoy-inc.com/products/universal-joints.aspx

Chris, I would agree that the pin holes are most likely drilled after install to match the collar and stud holes. It was suggested the ujoint studs came pre-drilled, which is why I asked the question who has installed an OEM complete shift link system. The Pegasus helicopter ujoints look very cool, but they will require welding custom threaded studs to them, which will make them exceptionally expensive. I‘ve made note of this ujoint for future reference. Thanks.

Does anyone else who has done a done a full shift link install for a 352 Transaxle have advice?




Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: seniorchristo on Thursday,February 22, 2018, 06:17:28 AM
Glen
If I remember correctly there was considerable play in the new Lovejoy joint from RD.  I think the Apex joints are a much higher quality item.  If welding is considered impractical, the joint could be bolted to a proper stud using a saddle washer and perhaps Loctite bearing mount(?).  I think this would eliminate all play at this location.  I guess there would still be some flexing in the attachments however.  Just an idea to consider.
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3077-002
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,February 22, 2018, 05:45:59 PM
I wouldn’t say “considerable play” in the Lovejoy ujoint, it did have a little play. But more to the point, the whole OEM shifting solution is a bit wonky. I’m not sure enhancing the center u-joint at considerable cost without enhancing the shifter and the rear u-joint that attaches to the transaxle will produce dramatic results. I would think a solution needs to be designed for the entire shifting system.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: buzzer on Friday,February 23, 2018, 12:28:31 AM
Just a couple of points. On pinning, it has to be done on place. The manual goes into the detail. The originals were not pre drilled. In would be very difficult to get that right.
On th lock nut and locktite . Maybe I didn’t try hard enough to make it work, but my car has a 5 speed so the joints get loaded in both directions and there is quite a resistance to engage reverse.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Friday,February 23, 2018, 05:10:30 AM
I have to say I like GavinT's steering joint approach. Designed for zero backlash and reasonably priced. The length adjustment is a problem. Drilling and pinning in place sounds like a monumental pain. Some sort of clamping means on a keyed shaft would be better than transmitting torque through a threaded/pinned connection.
Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,February 24, 2018, 01:28:26 PM
The Lotus shop manual also states to use loctite for the threaded studs attached to the ujoint assembly and the spherical joint. And some thing I missed before was the location of the split in the pins (they need to face the direction of the Speedo cable on the transaxle).

Tomorrow I will tackle the shift linkage job deciding between the OEM configuration and the updated version that uses RD Enterprises ujoint from Lovejoy. I’m still undecided.......but I have all the parts to go either way!

Chris is coming over so we will have an interesting conversation about the pro’s and con’s on each.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,February 25, 2018, 02:38:35 PM
One of the things that was on my list to go back to was installing the retaining clips for the handbrake cable. The OEM clips didn't fit the new version of the handbrake cable.  Of course I now had to install the circ clips with the chassis full of other things like water tubes, shift tube, speedo cable, oil line, etc. Never the less I persevered and got them fitted with a pair of gloves as there was no way I could get a pliers in that location.

Next was the shift tubes and decision on the type of ujoint to use.  Chris came over and we laid out both systems, discussed the pros' and cons' and decided that I would proceed with the Lovejoy ujoint system that RD Enterprises sells. New technology, more streamline and made of SS.  What the heck, sometimes you just have to roll the dice. There was more play than I wanted in the bracket that attaches to the bell housing and I replaced the aluminum end spacers with the nylon ones I got from RD.  That solved the problem. Used Loctite on the spherical joint that slides over the ujoint stud (as recommended by the shop manual). Let it cure and installed in place using the measurements in the manual regarding spacing.

Chris and I moved to Loctiting the bearings in the hub carriers and then set out to figure out how to reinstall the axle shafts.........here's where we were scratching our heads. There are flingers and very thin shims that need to be installed on the transaxle drive shafts.  The problem is the manual says nothing about this and the parts manual also show nothing.  WTF..... Who can provide an explanation of how these get installed (see photo showing how we think they go).  The odd thing is that there were no flingers or shims on my car when I disassembled it.  Same with the other Europa race car I bought, one flinger on one side and no shims, nothing on the other side.   Great mystery......

Installed the heater control valve and a few more hoses. Moved the SS hose clamps to a position that everything can be accessed from the bottom of the car (thanks Ted). 

Chris & I had a beer and called it a day. Thanks Chris!

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,February 25, 2018, 03:13:33 PM
I never heard of any flingers. Only shims. In order to ensure there is no impact on the diff or stress on the roll pins from lateral force on the half shafts, you use the shims to ensure no lateral movement of the ujoint on the output shaft. Basically put as many shims under the u-joint as you can and still put the roll pin in through the u-joint and output shaft. You may or may not need any shims. You'll have to check them first, but I think it's likely you'll need at least a couple on at least one output shaft.

Congratulations on your progress. She's looking really pretty!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,February 25, 2018, 07:17:18 PM
 No “flingers”.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Sunday,February 25, 2018, 11:23:40 PM
To be fair to Certified Lotus, they are mentioned in the parts book but I don't recall them being fitted to my car when I first got it and there aren't any fitted now.

I suspect it was a carry over from the Elan rear suspension because they fitted a similar part on the inboard bearing there at around series 3, but it's called both a "guard" and "spacer" in the books. I think it's just there to deflect road spray and act as a shield for the seal on the bearing.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,February 26, 2018, 02:28:33 AM
Thanks for finding the page in the parts manual Brian. I thought I had seen it there before (I knew the term “flinger” had to come from somewhere) but the page I was on didn’t have it. Went back and located the page........now I know I’m not making stuff up  8)

Yes, the flinger is a dust seal, so I imagine the protruded edge goes towards the transaxle shaft as it fits inside the felt seal. Then the shims go inside of the flinger.

I’m wodering why most of you don’t have these installed?  I know when I rebuilt my S1 Elan rear diff I couldn’t fit the dust shield as the new bearings didn’t allow for the extra depth. But the new bearings already had dust shields built in so I didn’t worry. On the Europa transaxle the felt seal is definitely open to exposure of the elements. I’m going to install the flinger and see if it fits appropriately, unless someone can advise not to. It is odd the shop manual makes no mention of these,,,,,,,,
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Monday,February 26, 2018, 04:04:27 AM
My car had flingers when I stripped it, and I put them back. They fit over the stub axle where it goes into the bearing carrier, at the outboard end of the driveshaft, not the inboard where your photograph shows. The shims are on the inner end of the driveshaft as described by BDA above. I would say that fitting the flinger where you show might prevent the shims from doing their job. The bit of the parts manual posted by Brian clearly shows the flinger, item 12.
A  flinger is a device to fling oil or other lubricant away from a bearing through which it has just leaked. It was often used behind crankshaft rear main bearings to keep oil away from clutch plates, and in hub assemblies to keep it away from brake linings. Leaking oil would be flung by centrifugal force away from the bearing area.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,February 26, 2018, 04:55:28 AM
Thanks Roger, now that I’m paying closer attention to the parts drawing I see the correct location. But it doesn’t detail the orientation of the flinger. Does the protruded edge go towards the seal or towards the collar of the drive shaft?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Monday,February 26, 2018, 06:14:50 AM
It goes toward the seal. If you look at the Workshop manual there's an exploded hub diagram that clearly shows it, and another diagram,  of the location of the bearing spacer,  also shows it .
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,February 26, 2018, 06:15:23 AM
No flingers at the transaxle/half-shaft.  Yes, there is one on the rear wheel axle.  The protruded edge faces away from the seal -- otherwise it would rub against the seal.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Monday,February 26, 2018, 07:48:30 AM
I still think the lip faces the seal, sorry!

http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/tcwork/d/index.htm#fig1 (http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/tcwork/d/index.htm#fig1)

Look at Fig 1, and particularly Fig 5, which clearly shows the lip facing the seal.


Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,February 26, 2018, 08:20:15 AM
Never apologize for correcting the record!

... but I still think it faces out not in.  I think the "flinger" was only used on TC/S.  Early S1s didn't even have a seal.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,February 26, 2018, 05:20:07 PM
Great to have various insights and further clarification on “flingers”.  I clearly still don’t know how to read the shop manual as I keep looking in the wrong places for information.

I do worry about the lip of the flinger facing the seal as it might tear it up. But I won’t really know until I place everything next to each other and look closely to investigate further. But that will have to wait a few days while I take off for a business trip.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,March 01, 2018, 07:05:59 AM
I’m back from my travels and the first thing I did was look at my Europa Shop manual to determine why I keep missing some information that I know I had seen before. I think I have a “transition” manual (if there is such a thing) as the first 90% of the manual seems to be about the S2 and then the last 10% is about the twin Cam. Looks like the updates were added at the back? Is there just a TC and TCS manual? The one I have came with the car.

I read everyone’s comments about the “flinger”, found the actual page where it is shown (this was in the back part of my manual) and would agree that from the drawing it looks like the flinger collar does indeed goe against the rubber seal.

Then I took one of my flingers and placed it against the seal as well as putting both pieces on the axle shaft to look at the placement and function. From my own analysis (which should always be suspect) I would suggest that the flinger collar rubbing against the seal will fairly quickly wear the rubber seal out. The reason I say that is the collar of the flinger is a larger diameter than the seal fit (which is designed to fit around the axle collar) and there is no way the flinger collar with fit inside the seal without significant distortion of the seal. On the other hand, if the collar side of the flinger is against the edge of the axle at the u-joint location, the flat side of the flinger fits nicely inside the seal housing (Hopefully I’m making sense here).

You will note in the second photo the flinger actually fits inside the seal housing so the collar of the flinger will press against the seal. On the last two photos, the flinger is located on the axle collar with the flinger collar facing out and then the seal housing in place (the seal housing is pressed into the bearing carrier).

What I do not yet know, is if placing the flinger in place with the collar against the u-joint casting is will that change the overall fit of the bearings on the axle shaft as it would push it out further. (I didn’t have time to do accurate measurements).

Any input would be appreciated, although it seems many of you don’t have flingers and a few of you already are in disagreement on the positioning of the flinger.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,March 01, 2018, 08:17:07 AM
There is no TC or TCS manual. There is just the TC supplement. That can make things a bit confusing, especially because I don't think they catch every difference between the TC and S2 so interpretations are occasionally in order.

It's been a long time since I put mine together. Others probably have better recollection or more recent experience, but I think the orientation in the second to last picture is correct. If memory serves, and it may not, I took the flinger as just a disc that was stuck on the half shaft. I'm not sure I took it off and just painted it with the rest of the U-joint area.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: seniorchristo on Thursday,March 01, 2018, 02:31:23 PM
Glen
From your photos it's not clear to me if the flinger collar actually touches the rubber part of the seal.  If it does, then I wouldn't install it that way.  On the other hand, if the flinger were turned around, would the collar be crushed against the U-joint yoke when tightening down the axle nut?  Hmmmm...
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,March 01, 2018, 06:14:03 PM
Chris, I need to do some accurate measuring to determine how this all fits. Weekend work!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Thursday,March 01, 2018, 06:38:01 PM
You can see if  the photos where the bearing mounts.  Lots of room for the seal and “flinger”.

BTW, it’s a slinger, not a “flinger”.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Friday,March 02, 2018, 08:44:16 AM
My recollection is that the flinger is a pretty tight interference fit and that the curve of the lip marries up with the radius between the yoke and the shaft. It doesn't touch the seal.
I'd also point out that if the flinger fits inside the seal housing, it's only because the seal is the wrong way round. Look again at the diagram that illustrates the bearing spacer.
By the way, this is really a dust and water seal, to keep out of the bearing housing any detritus that escapes the flinger.

I expect that trial assembly will be how you decide.


Why  isn't it a flinger? The detritus doesn't care if it's flung or slung, does it?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Friday,March 02, 2018, 11:57:29 AM
Roger
Why  isn't it a flinger? The detritus doesn't care if it's flung or slung, does it?

Lol  ,...agree. could be a flunger since its past tense.
dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,March 03, 2018, 05:33:21 AM
My recollection is that the flinger is a pretty tight interference fit and that the curve of the lip marries up with the radius between the yoke and the shaft. It doesn't touch the seal.
I'd also point out that if the flinger fits inside the seal housing, it's only because the seal is the wrong way round. Look again at the diagram that illustrates the bearing spacer.
By the way, this is really a dust and water seal, to keep out of the bearing housing any detritus that escapes the flinger.

I expect that trial assembly will be how you decide.

One of the great things about time is that you have the opportunity to reflect instead of just charging ahead......

I seem to be very confused about the installation of the bearing hub installation of the inner seal and the flinger. I have been thinking the seal gets installed reverse of what you are suggesting Roger. When I first went to re-install these seals I thought the full cap side faced outward as that made the most sense, but I went back and checked the photos of my disassembly of this part and low and behold the seal was mounted with the cap part against the bearing.  Odd I thought, so I went to look at the photos I had of the disassembly of the Europa race car I bought and guess what......it was the same as my road car.  Mmmmmmm.....how would this be installed incorrectly on two different cars?  The diagram in the shop manual for the hub is not very clear to me regarding the side of the seal that is installed against the bearing. Now that I’m really paying attention to this, the parts manual is a bit more clear and it seems to show the seal installed with the cap end out and the flinger collar towards the seal (which will still allow the flinger collar to rub against the rubber seal as the flinger can move on the axle).

And so I have been perplexed about the Flinger. It just didn't make sense that the flinger fit inside the seal and rubbing up against the rubber seal. Which is why I kept asking what the orientation of the flinger was on the shaft.

Now, all that being said I have noticed that in trial fits of the seal on the axle if you don't get it right, there is a spring around the seal collar that can come off.  If the seal is installed with the cap outside and the spring comes off while fitting the axle your totally screwed.

So, who has the definitive answer on this?  Please chime in.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Saturday,March 03, 2018, 05:54:44 AM
I don't think your flinger should move on the axle. As I said earlier, it should be an interference fit.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,March 03, 2018, 05:58:09 AM
I think Roger is right here. I'm not sure I took mine off.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,March 03, 2018, 06:00:54 AM
I don't think your flinger should move on the axle. As I said earlier, it should be an interference fit.

I’m sure your right on this Roger, but my used ones move on the axle and these are difficult to find new. I’m wondering if I should use loctite on them to secure?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,March 03, 2018, 08:59:23 AM
Just to add more detail for those that are wondering about all of this, the photos below show the flinger with the collar facing the seal and the flinger with the collar facing the yoke. Also shown is the hub seal with the spring around the rubber seal.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,March 03, 2018, 09:51:19 AM
I've kind of lost track so if I'm repeating what you already know, I apologize.

I'm almost positive the seal should "face" outwards - in other words, the spring part of the seal should be on the bearing side of the the assy. I don't think I've ever seen a seal oriented otherwise. I'm also sure that the flinger "collar" should face the same way - toward the outside of the assy. (outside = tire side) and the "rim" should be hard against the yoke. I think you worried earlier that the collar would rub against the rubber part of the seal potentially wearing it out. I THINK if you look at the seal, the spring is over an angle edge that runs on the shaft. The rest of the seal should not contact the shaft so the collar shouldn't interfere with rubber. If your flinger does not fit tightly on the half shaft, I might consider using something to hold it there like loktite.

Does this sound reasonable or am I missing something? I admit again that it's been a long time since I had to worry about this so I'm going on memory (about the filnger) as much as general experience (about seals).
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Saturday,March 03, 2018, 09:30:52 PM
G'day Certified,

Sorry for being difficult, but I’d agree with Roger; it isn’t really a slinger . . as in an “oil slinger”.
Looks more like a dust shield to me.

Below is a pic of a normal oil seal orientation.
The idea is that even with some pressure from the oil/lubricant side, the lip will maintain a seal against the shaft.

Usually, dust shield are installed as a close fit to the oil seal outer face but not rubbing on it.
It’s only really there to protect from rocks and small children damaging the seal.

I don’t know the correct orientation of the dust shield but would presume either orientation that permits installation without any pressure on the seal would be OK.
Also, your third pic shows the dust shield has a couple of dings in the outer periphery. It might be worth whacking those down flat.

I don’t think there were any fitted to my Type 54,S2.

Personally, I’d expect you could delete the dust shields altogether and save all that unsprung weight!
That’s what Colin would do.  :D

EDIT to add:

On reconsideration, perhaps your second pic is the correct placement for the dust shield.
I say that because the curve of the dust shield would be closer at its outer diameter than the inner diameter and therefor not encourage dust getting in.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,March 04, 2018, 05:29:27 AM
Greatly appreciate everyone's input on the subjects of which way the oil seal and flingers face the rear hub.  I re-read all the insights and suggestions and pressed in the oil seals with the cap end out.  Will be installing the flingers with the collar side towards the yoke (Now that I have done that someone will appear with photos and a detailed explanation that I did it all wrong....).

Went about rethreading the end of the axle stud and the retaining nuts.  They were a bit bunged up and wanted a clean fit. 3/4-16 for anyone that wants to know.

Just to double check, the hub bearing assembly is press fit onto the axle stub. No Loctite to hold the bearings to the axle.....correct?

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,March 04, 2018, 05:43:18 AM
I only used Loktite on the splines to hub interface. It must be the proper type. It's green as I remember. I don't remember the number. r. d. enterprises has it.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,March 04, 2018, 07:03:49 AM
Please put a swipe of light grease between the seal's lips.  Loctite is only used on the splines.  635 is the correct type as it sets slowly, giving you time to assemble everything.  Just double checking, you have the spacer in place between the two bearings?

The assembled bearing housings have to be attached to their respective radius arms before fitting the half-shaft's axles.

Is it a press fit?  It's not an interference fit but it is snug.  I seem to recall having to tap mine home with a soft-face mallet.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Sunday,March 04, 2018, 07:05:20 AM
Right, no loctite on the bearing/axle fit.
Very important loctite on the hub splines, when you get there.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,March 04, 2018, 07:17:51 AM
Some people incorrectly push out the old bearings, damaging the housing's bearing bores.  If the new bearings drop in, with no play, then you can use loctite bearing retainer to keep them in place.  If there is any play, then you have to have to housings machined and fitted with steel sleeves to bring them back into spec.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Sunday,March 04, 2018, 09:00:05 AM
Just to double check, the hub bearing assembly is press fit onto the axle stub. No Loctite to hold the bearings to the axle.....correct?
I've not used loctite on the bearings, just the driveshaft splines & hub interface.   I think the only time I'd use it on bearings is if I felt the fit was a bit on the loose side, but if it's a good press fit than I wouldn't bother.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: andy harwood on Sunday,March 04, 2018, 10:06:19 AM
Thought I remembered a slinger/flinger on one of the stub axles of my 74 TCS I bought. Only one side had a slinger - but the car had been in a accident, and the stub axle may have been replaced along with the hub carrier.
2nd pic is the mod that was made to the transaxle shifter shaft universal joint, to increase clamping force. I think the mod is in the GGLC tech articles.
Would have posted sooner, but was not at home.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: buzzer on Sunday,March 04, 2018, 10:45:55 AM
That’s a good mod on the gearbox shifter. I was thinking about that type of  mod on mine. I fitted it with the std roll pin at the moment but I had to sleeve out the hole in the shaft as it was oversize so I’m concerned that it could work loose. Also allows it to be much more serviceable.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,March 04, 2018, 05:40:42 PM
Thanks for everyone's comments, directives and suggestions. All appreciated.  Helps to always have extra data before making a hard decision.

Installed the axles to the transaxle using two (2) shims on each side (wouldn't take more) before tapping in the pins to hold the axles in place.  Will safety wire in place at a later point in time.

I have been mulling the oil seal and flinger situation for several weeks now. Issue number one was the correct placement of the oil seals on the inside of the bearing hub.  The question was which way did the seal face as the two sets of hubs I had disassembled had the seals open to the side of the yoke. But most of you said it should be the other way around.  So I bought two new seals, removed the ones I had installed "incorrectly" and replaced them with new seals with the metal cap facing the yoke.  THEN my friend Bruce emails me from Mexico to let me know that he is rebuilding his Europa TC rear bearing hubs and his oil seals were also installed with the open end of the seal towards the yoke and no flingers. OK then, WTF...... 

My friend Chris came over today with his Elan and we bled his clutch to remove some air bubbles and then we go thru all the postings on this subject of oil seals and flingers as well and reread Bruce's email.  And here is the ah-ha moment...... I took a magnifying glass to the engineering drawing of the hub that is in the shop manual and low and behold it shows the seal with the open end towards the yoke. For those that have engineering backgrounds or formal training in mechanical drawing will note that a darker solid line against a lighter drawn line is showing something different.  If you look very closely a the drawing in the shop manual it shows the seal open towards the yoke.

Well, I have already installed the new seals with the metal cap the other way around. Chris and I spend an hour doing measurement and take off's to determine if the seal is mounted in reverse will it still be on the collar of the axle.  The answer is yes. Then we have another conversation regarding in the flingers. My are used and don't have a tight fit.  Using Loctite bearing sealer might hold them in place, but no guarantee. With the thought that the flingers might be rotating around the axle collar and bouncing against the outside edge of the rubber seal would not be a good idea. The flingers come off.

JB, no worries, the metal spacer is inside between the two bearings.

We bolt on the hubs to the correct swing arms, grease everything nicely to insure a smooth fit of the bearings and seals and mount a bearing collar behind the yoke with threaded studs attached to a metal plate that has a hole in the middle. Out comes my trusty air ratchet wrench and slowly tighten each stud in succession to pull the hub onto the stub axle.   

Chris had to go but I was on a roll and wanted to get the suspension in place.  Installed the shocks and lower control arms.  The big question here is my original install had these spacers on the lower hub bolt to align the shock and control arm.  I read the shop manual again as it didn't show any spacers in the drawings.  Mmmmmm...what is up with this?  After a couple of different configurations I decide the small spacer needs to go next to the outside of the hub so the shock is horizontal when compressed.  Is this correct?

Everything is placed but not bolted down until I get more data and research further. By the way, the question about using Loctite on the axle where the bearing are located was because the shop manual suggest you do this. I scratched my head at this and had Chris read the manual, he thought the same. Didn't make sense which is why I asked the question to everyone looking over my shoulder on this site.

Lots of little decisions, I wonder how many correct......  Looking forward to comments  :D

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,March 04, 2018, 08:16:10 PM
Congratulations on your progress! She's really starting to come together!  :beerchug:

The orientation of that seal is very surprising! I hope it works out for you. I have no memory of what I did about it but I don't remember worrying about it so whatever I did was without drama and seems to be working fine so far.

I wouldn't worry about the spacer for your rear shocks. The idea is for them to be vertical, as you said.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Sunday,March 04, 2018, 10:42:48 PM
Re the oil seal:
Presumably the new inner bearings you’ve installed are the 2RS variety?
For example 6006 2RS.
The 2RS suffix denotes 2 rubber seals.
The outer bearing shown in one of your pics appears to be the 2RS variety.

If so, the oil seal you’ve installed is essentially a secondary seal. I expect this why JB implored the addition of a swipe of grease (which would be usual anyway) because it likely won’t see any lubrication going forward . . which means it’ll turn into a pretty good dust seal.  ;D

I haven’t looked at the shop manual but it wouldn’t be the first mistake in a shop manual.
IlRC the S2 manual shows a pic of the transaxle with the crown wheel on the wrong side . . because the pic was lifted straight out of the Renault 16 manual . . there’s a surprise waiting for someone.

Perhaps that’s also why many insist the seal faces out? . . contrary to the intended fitting of the part in any other installation?
That said, the rear uprights have a hole in the bottom of the casting so there’s never going to be a pressure build up so it’ll work no matter which way it’s installed, I reckon.


Re the pic of the damper mountings - DSC09972.jpg:
Is it my imagination or are the damper bushes slightly distorted?

Maybe it’s just the angle of the pic but it almost seems as if the top mounting should be further forward . . . or the lower one further back.
Obviously neither of those are optional and the suspension is in droop so I presume it all becomes correct at normal ride height?

By the way, I love the brilliant pics and watching this all come together.
Great job.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,March 05, 2018, 03:41:55 AM
GavinT, the comment about the bearings already having dust seals was a big part of the conversation Chris and I had at the work bench while looking at the shop drawing. With the “new” bearings already configured that way, the outer oil seal was redundant and it’s only purpose was to prevent road dirt and water from entering the bearing housing. The flinger was to provide even more deterant for road dirt to approach the seal. Thanks for confirming our joint thinking.

Regarding the shock (damper) bushings, it an optical illusion that they seem distorted. They are not even bolted in as the nuts are just in place, no tightening. When I was testing the vertical alignment of the shocks (because my original set up had spacers) I put a hydraulic floor jack under the hub and jacked it up to put the shocks under load test the alignment and see if any binding occurred.looked good to me, but the real test will be when I complete the rear suspension with brakes and bolt everything in to put the wheels and tires on.

Glad you like the photos. I do this for all my rebuilds (for myself) as it provides a visual documentation of what has been done and is easy to reference for future projects or repairs at a later date.  Figured I might as well share the info for all to see as it will help anyone who is in the midst of a project or considering doing this. If I was retired and had more time I would shoot videos, but that is very time consuming and the editing alone takes a lot of effort......one day.

BDA I thought same, vertical is what is important for the shocks, but I need to have them fully compressed on the wheels to determine if the spacer is needed. Jacking up the hub gave me enough of a perspective, but the shocks didn’t fully compress so I will have to wait until I am ready to bolt on the wheels. (I’m really waiting for the rear disk brake kit to be completed).
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,March 05, 2018, 04:00:06 AM
Thought I remembered a slinger/flinger on one of the stub axles of my 74 TCS I bought. Only one side had a slinger - but the car had been in a accident, and the stub axle may have been replaced along with the hub carrier.
2nd pic is the mod that was made to the transaxle shifter shaft universal joint, to increase clamping force. I think the mod is in the GGLC tech articles.
Would have posted sooner, but was not at home.

Andy, thanks for the photos. You have confirmed the flinger (slinger) is mounted with the collar facing the seal. Like your car, one of my axles had a flinger and the other did not. On the race car I bought and disassembled it had no flingers.

Interesting modification to the shift joint linkage. I’m guessing this is a major source of problems for the shifting (the rear link being too loose). I was able to locate a new OEM rear link although it was for a 15mm shift tube and mine is an earlier 13mm. I had a bronze bushing made with hole drilled to match the hole in the joint and press fitted. Will pin it and safety wire. Will see how long it lasts.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,March 05, 2018, 10:30:04 AM
You will want to fit the brake backing plates before loctiting the splines in place.

The rear wheel bearing/axle set-up is not particularly robust.  They started with just having the 2RS inner bearing (early S1) and then added the seal (late S1) and finally the slinger (TC/S) in an effort to prolong bearing life.

The weak point, other than the axle made out of butter, is bearing spacer.  Originally it's basically just exhaust pipe: seam-welded, mild steel.  Lotus stressed fitting a new spacer every time.  Better is to fit a set of the hardened aftermarket spacers made out out of chromoly, seamless tubing.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,March 05, 2018, 01:51:47 PM
Your reading my mind JB. I have the brake backing plate all painted and next to the hubs ready for install.  I was hoping to have a disc brake solution identified by now, but the timing is off so I will be installing the drum brakes until some later point in time. The in-place assembly was just to take the parts and put them in the right areas without bolting everything down.

The bearing spacers I have are hardened, no seams and they certainly aren’t exhaust pipe. If I had seen that I would have changed out emediately.

And then there is the point that this will be a fair weather sports car, not a daily driver. The bearings should last a long time  8)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,March 06, 2018, 05:08:53 AM
Certified,
Attention to details is why your build will be researched many years to come.
As you once stated  , DROOL.  Congrats.
Dakazman

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: cwtech on Tuesday,March 06, 2018, 08:40:08 AM
I'm late to respond, but offer my input.

Lip-type seals are designed for the lip to face the fluids.  ...I know-- there are no fluids in the hub.  ...So, with no lube to retain, the open-side of the seal toward the yoke, would help prevent dirt and/or moisture from reaching the bearing.

One of the pics makes the seal appear to have two lips.  ...If one lip is a larger than the other, the larger diameter may very well ride on the slinger, while the smaller diameter of the lip seals on the stub axle.

Bearings are either open, shielded, or sealed.  ....Assuming the bearings have no way of being greased, only the lube present in the bearing is available. 
...Only sealed bearings are designed to retain this lube, without additional means needed to keep out dirt and water.  ....If shielded or open bearings are used, the lip can face outward.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,March 07, 2018, 05:31:22 AM
Thanks for the complement Dakazman!

CWtech, yes there are two lips on the seal and they have different angles and depth on both. And one side has a spring around the seal to prevent distortion. When reviewing the seal on the bench Chris and I must have spent 30 minutes talking about the optimum seal direction on the axle shoulder and after much discussion came the the conclusion that it didn’t really matter as it was a dust shield.

The only thing I worry about is the side of the seal that has the spring is now mounted towards the sealed bearing. If the spring were to break the pieces would be floating around, where the other way the spring would end up on the road. By the way, of the four hubs I dismantled all of them had the spring missing.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,March 11, 2018, 04:35:50 PM
Got distracted this weekend. Our local Lotus Club (PALS) had it annual "Winter Stress Reliever" party on Saturday and today I worked on renovating the 1/2 bathroom attached to the friends entrance of our house. Plus another Lotus friend (Steve) came over to use my flaring tool in my shop for all his new brake lines for his recent plus 2 Elan he purchased recently. I did sneak in a couple of hours at the end of the day to install the rear brake drum backing plates and clean up the rear hubs to prep for painting. Its important to remove all the residual Loctite in between the splines on the axle shaft and the hub to insure a good fit and adhesion when reassembling with Loctite 635. Prepped the hubs for painting and applied the first coat.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,March 11, 2018, 04:50:54 PM
Another step in your journey! So have you given up on rear discs?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,March 11, 2018, 05:28:33 PM
BDA, I have been in communication with Milo and he suggested I install the drum brakes as he does not yet have a solution developed yet for rear disc brakes with the e brake. All good, it will be an easy mod later on. I’m waiting for his solution as his other systems are well designed.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,March 11, 2018, 05:36:43 PM
I think I already mentioned that I have Richard's kit. My recent freak out over what turned out to be paint cracking from the heat from my discs impressed me with how well they worked. They generated more heat than I expected! Just a thought...
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,March 11, 2018, 06:00:59 PM
Appreaciate the recommendation BDA. I’m going to wait and see what Milo develops.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Monday,March 12, 2018, 06:01:17 AM
Glen, that photo of the backing plate doesn't look right to me.  I remember the wheel cylinder opening more at the 12 o'clock position and horizontal.   Do you have it mounted on the correct side (not sure if they are side specific)?    Or is it just me?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,March 12, 2018, 06:31:15 AM
It's not you, Ted. It is a bit catty whumpus. I didn't think you could put them on any other way (other than a multiple of 90 degrees off.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Monday,March 12, 2018, 09:43:30 AM
i just checked mine and indeed, there is a very slight rearward tilt, but Glen's is at a much more extreme tilt.   Something's not right here...
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,March 12, 2018, 09:51:57 AM
Mmmmm, they came off my car that way and there is a specific bolt pattern. I wonder if they are reversed left/right. Will have to check. Thanks Ted.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,March 12, 2018, 10:09:47 AM
These sites show a substantial tilt:

https://europa70.wordpress.com/2015/03/02/brakes/

https://www.prevanders.net/europa/rearaxle.html
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,March 12, 2018, 10:54:32 AM
Thanks JB. The site for “Dave’s Europa” is for a 72 which is the same year as mine and it does have the more significant angle location for the actuator. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Monday,March 12, 2018, 12:07:12 PM
I also just noticed my backing plate does not have the access hole at the bottom opposite the wheel cylinder either.    yours does.   what's going on here???
Mine is the "Special" with wider brake shoes.   is yours glen?   Maybe that's the difference?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Monday,March 12, 2018, 01:01:01 PM
Took a few pics of my plates off an 70 s2 for what it’s worth part nor ending in 99 is on the right.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,March 12, 2018, 01:15:50 PM
The TC Special uses a self-described "automatic adjusting" rear brake mech.  Doesn't work very well.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,March 12, 2018, 01:22:16 PM
I thought the brake cylinder was up near 12:00. I admit it. I'm a geezer!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,March 12, 2018, 01:49:42 PM
As I understand Europa history (which might be a combination of fact and loose conversation) the 1972 model range was the transition from the S2 and unique to the twin Cam model. 1973 onward was the TC Special. There are elements of the 72 TC that changed in 73. Maybe the brake backing plate was one of these changes?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,March 12, 2018, 04:43:49 PM
I don't remember but it could be that the TCS had the wider brake drums and maybe they were oriented a little bit differently...   :confused:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,March 12, 2018, 07:19:26 PM
Aaaaah, the joys of restoring a transition model year sports car. It’s certainly a learning experience. Some additional research does indeed identify that the 72 TC (not Special) uses brake pads that are 1.25” wide vs 1.5” for the TCS. I’m guessing this is the same size as an S2 Europa?

Then I found a photo (I pulled off the internet) of the rear wheel showing the cylinder mounted at an angle on the plate. So that lead me to looking at the S2 parts manual and there is the proof.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,March 12, 2018, 07:57:06 PM
I believe the S2 did have 1 1/4" rear brakes too, and I'm guessing that the difference between the 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" brakes is causing the heartburn.

Thinking about it again, I don't think you could reasonably assemble the back plates incorrectly so whatever the reason is that they look strange to a couple of us, I would forge ahead and ignore those "nattering nabobs of negativism" (including me) continue on to the next task!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Monday,March 12, 2018, 08:44:04 PM
A future concours judge will look at your car and check off " '72 Twin Cam rear brake slave cylinder at jaunty angle" on his clipboard and give you a blue ribbon.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Roger on Tuesday,March 13, 2018, 01:54:21 PM
My car, as I have said earlier, is 13 before yours - 2345R. It's cylinders are at the top, 12.00.
I have often thought how nice it would be if the backplates were skewed like yours. Why? Because the 1/4" square adjuster is right behind the bearing carrier and it's  impossible to get anything in there to turn it other than an open-ended spanner (wrench), and they're not very strong. Maybe  when the backplate is skewed the adjuster is clear of the obstruction?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Tuesday,March 13, 2018, 05:38:31 PM
Count yourself lucky top have the adjuster, the 1.5 set-up doesn't have one that works worth beans.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Saturday,March 17, 2018, 06:15:17 AM
Your rear brakes are the as mine I think it is this way to make the handbrake cable fit?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,March 18, 2018, 04:10:59 PM
Bruce, you would be correct. The angle of the slave cylinder allows for the e-brake arm to pivot out towards the cable.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,March 18, 2018, 04:19:36 PM
Not a lot got accomplished this weekend. I'm working on a half bath renovation and the misses wants it done before Easter company comes. Never the less, between spackle drying, sanding, plumbing work and paint drying I got a few things done on the Europa.  8)

Took apart the brake shoe adjusters, media blasted the parts, coated the interior with a dry lubricant and reassembled and installed on the backing plate.  Test fit the new slave cylinders and reconfirmed they are the right bore for the S2/TC model range. Had a bunch of parts that needed to be plated so that took a bit of time.

Sent my parts list requirements to RD Enterprises for next weeks work (completing the brake install)

Progress, a little at a time.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,March 18, 2018, 04:25:26 PM
Sometimes the best you can do is baby steps. It's always best to keep SWMBO happy. When mamma ain't happy ain't nobody happy!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,March 25, 2018, 06:34:25 AM
Finished the half bath renovation. Hard push to get it completed so I could spend the entire day Sunday to work on the Europa. Well, that was the plan. Friends invited us for Brunch last night which will be an all day affair as we are driving to this cute town along the river.....that has antique shops and art galleries. You know what I will be doing today....

Never the less, had an extra hour this morning early before the Misses woke up so I installed the left side rear brake assembly and ebrake cable. My parts came from RD Enterprises earlier in the week so I was ready to go.

I was looking at the photos I took of the rear brake assembly when I dismantled the car and saw the PO had the brake shoe top spring mounted outside of the shoe. That's odd I thought, the inside of the axle hub will hit it if mounted that way. Another example of all the things wrong done by a "back yard mechanic".

Maybe I'll get the other side installed later today.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,March 25, 2018, 07:03:32 AM
Check your brake drums carefully to see if they are balanced (sections machined off).  If not, get them balanced.

Lotus switched to balanced drums early in Europa production.  99.9% of aftermarket drums, which is now all that is available, are not balanced.  Some are WAY off.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,March 25, 2018, 08:00:10 AM
Definitely nothing machined off these drums. I’ll need to find a garage that still balances them and has a drum lathe. Thanks for the insight JB!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,March 25, 2018, 08:56:34 AM
The last set of drums I bought were pretty bad.  The casting around the machined surface was pronouncedly elliptical.  I mounted the drums, one at a time, to a spare hub and then set them up on centres.  I ground off about a pound from the heavy spot.  So much that I thought I must have done it wrong.  Installed them and my nagging rear wheel balance issue was gone.  YMMV
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,April 01, 2018, 05:48:36 AM
Installed the right side rear drum brakes and all associated fittings. Everything went together as it should.  Had to locate some retaining clips for the e-brake cable to keep it in place on the chassis bracket. Somehow I misplaced the OEM versions (I'm sure I will find it in some bag in a box it shouldn't be in).

The next major project is making & running all the brake lines.  Started with the front disk brakes as I needed to create the line that connects the front calipers to the flex line. It's got some weird bends which I knew would be interesting to replicate. Got my work bench set-up in my woodworking shop (another part of the house) for making brake lines with the proper flairs.  Years ago I invested in a brake line flair tool that was $$$ and I have never regretted it.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,April 01, 2018, 05:15:05 PM
Big Easter brunch at my house today. My wife does a spectacular job of decorating, cooking and is the ultimate hostess.  I serve drinks and keep the conversation active (all I'm good for).

Once company left I sneaked in a an hour or so of Europa work. More brake line construction.

Here is my major question......I am eliminating the brake boosters and have already purchased the proper master cylinder for the removal of the boosters. I'm also installing a brake proportioning valve at the rear of the car (for future disc brake install when Milo completes).  The OEM brake line install to the rear of the chassis went under the chassis and was exposed to the road elements. There were three brake lines due to the need of routing to the boosters and having a return.  With the elimination of the boosters I only need to run one brake line to the rear of the chassis. Any reason I can't do this inside of the chassis to eliminate the exposure of the brake line to the elements and road debris ?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,April 01, 2018, 05:33:46 PM
The brake pipes under the frame concerned me too so I routed them down to side if the backbone thinking there was room given the padding between the body and frame. I don't recommend this. I think a better solution is to run the lines under the backbone as normal but add a sheet of aluminum to cover the area under the backbone. You can use nut-sert type threaded inserts to attach it if you're not comfortable using tape. There is plenty of room for the pipes because the body hangs lower than the frame.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Sunday,April 01, 2018, 06:13:46 PM
I also routed mine down the side of the backbone. I just made up some 'L' shaped clips and used the existing screw holes.
Mine is a Type 54 with a single line master cylinder and this seemed the obvious and easiest way to do it.

Why wouldn't you recommend this, BDA?

I had thought of putting it inside the chassis as that would completely protect it.
The disadvantage of that is visibility. If a drain hole becomes clogged and you end up with some standing water/moisture, it could corrode through and you'd never know about it.

That's what commonly happens to the line that goes around that sharp bend where the legs of the 'Y' meet - the padding absorbs water and holds it against the brake line.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,April 01, 2018, 06:55:30 PM
Quote
Why wouldn't you recommend this, BDA?

I used regular cushioned cable clamps and the fit between the body and the frame seemed snugger than I'd prefer. I haven't had any problems from it but I wished I had done it the way I described. Your point about access is taken, too. If something should happen to a pipe along the backbone (admittedly highly unlikely) your access to the pipe would be very difficult.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Sunday,April 01, 2018, 08:33:15 PM
With the elimination of the boosters I only need to run one brake line to the rear of the chassis. Any reason I can't do this inside of the chassis to eliminate the exposure of the brake line to the elements and road debris ?

Why not? I've been pondering moving the brake warning light diff switch right up next to the MC and 1 line back to the rears also. The boosters necessitated a snakes wedding of bundy pipes totally unnecessary if they are removed.
t
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Sunday,April 01, 2018, 10:37:27 PM
I only need to run one brake line to the rear of the chassis. Any reason I can't do this inside of the chassis to eliminate the exposure of the brake line to the elements and road debris ?
My TC has been like that all the time I've owned it, there's even a neat little hole in the front crossmember for a rubber grommet and the line to pass through, located just above the closing plate.

Having said that, there are advantages to fitting it underneath because it's easier to replace should you ever need to do so. Threading a length from front to rear inside the central chassis is a fiddle with the body in place and you end up making one flare in situ. Securing the pipe at intervals is also easier outside the chassis so that reduces the chances of vibration & cracking.

If you are using cunifer (or "Kunifer" depending on who's selling it) then corrosion isn't going to be an issue and in practice the central chassis is well away from road spray so doesn't get as rusty as elsewhere. In fact the only reason I didn't run mine underneath the backbone was because it was neater to use the existing holes and leave it inside. The Elan has the rear pipe running externally under the backbone, a cunifer line fitted in '81 IIRC and never touched since !

Brian

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Monday,April 02, 2018, 01:55:55 AM
In Oz, copper nickel (cunifer) brake line is illegal. This ruling may be left over from the old days when when straight copper line was common.
The regulations are a bit contradictory because they say you must use steel and yet decent quality copper nickel stuff meets the standard they’re talking about.
Gaaa . . .

Given Oz doesn't get much snow (and the consequent salt on the roads), I suspect the corrosion issue wasn't seen as much of a problem.

The powers that be only legalised braided hoses not all that long ago and it’s still limited to exclude the DIY varieties.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,April 02, 2018, 06:52:30 AM
Brake lines made of straight copper are not very fatigue resistant.  Given the high pressures involved, it doesn't take much to have a line burst.  AFAIK, copper brake lines are illegal everywhere.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,April 02, 2018, 09:09:32 AM
Copper is still legal in the UK although the material doesn't have a fatigue limit and hence vibration will cause work hardening & fatigue failure eventually.  If it is fully supported it will work but the difficulty is in determining what is "fully supported". I remember reading of failures on lorry hubs where the constant vibration/high mileages caused failures and for that reason alone it should be viewed with caution.

Kunifer is a different material and even though it's still a copper alloy it doesn't have the same problems.  I'm actually surprised we still allow steel lines on cars when corroded lines are a known failure on MoT tests.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Monday,April 02, 2018, 10:22:49 AM
AFAIK, copper brake lines are illegal everywhere.

So what coils of tubing are they selling with all the brake pipe ends, that look like they are copper?

I have used that copper coloured tube everywhere.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Bainford on Monday,April 02, 2018, 11:36:03 AM
AFAIK, copper brake lines are illegal everywhere.

So what coils of tubing are they selling with all the brake pipe ends, that look like they are copper?

I have used that copper coloured tube everywhere.
Cunifer (or copper nickel, or cupro nickel, depending on where you are) has an appearance similar to copper, though slightly less 'red'. At a glance, it looks like copper, but as mentioned is a much better material. It is corrosion resistant, burst resistant, fatigue resistant, and much easier to work with than steel. In fact, it is such a good material that all high pressure (hydraulic and pneumatic) pipes on most of the world's 'cost is no object' navy submarines are copper/nickel. And they are working at much higher pressures and in much more extreme environments then the average automobile, and a single failure can mean the loss of 100 souls and a multi-billion dollar submarine, so only the best available is used. It's great stuff, and as Brian mentioned, steel brake lines should be outlawed as long as copper/nickel is around.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,April 02, 2018, 02:11:43 PM
See the label on the tubing box. It’s all I use for my rebuilds.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,April 02, 2018, 10:45:26 PM
So what coils of tubing are they selling with all the brake pipe ends, that look like they are copper?

I have used that copper coloured tube everywhere.

It depends where you're buying it from, if it's a seller on Ebay then it could well be pure copper so it would be worth looking at the packet. 

Cunifer/Kunifer is generally a few quid more than copper and as Bainford says it has a silvery copper colouration compared with the deep red/gold of copper. It comes in several grades with varying amounts of nickel but the one I've used for brake pipes is the 90/10, which is normally the cheapest. If you have the proper cunifer alloy it's got a touch of iron in there as well so it's not just a plain copper/nickel alloy - Cu/Ni/Fe(r)

/geek mode off/   ;)

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Wednesday,April 04, 2018, 09:56:50 AM
I ran a new line to the rear in the sameplace as the old line as the body hangs down about 1/2 bellow it.
I used this line probably the same as yours.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,April 04, 2018, 05:01:30 PM
Thanks for everyone's comments and suggestions. One of the things I didn't think about was the potential of a brake line vibrating inside the chassis because I didn't secure it enough routing it in a place that it wasn't originally.  I'm not worried about having to replace it. As a matter of fact, I have never had to replace any of the main brake lines for any of my sports cars due to corrosion so I'm not so worried about it. (although my son had a BMW E30 that we had to replace all the brake lines due to road exposure and pin holes).
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,April 04, 2018, 05:12:26 PM
While I am finalizing my thinking on the routing of the brake line going to the rear of the chassis, it was time to get the brake master cylinder configured properly. As most of you already know, the replacement master cylinder used when eliminating the brake boosters doesn't have a threaded push rod.  Originally I had thought I would just saw off the end of the rod and thread it for the extension tube to be threaded on. Well, it was a nice thought but measurements showed that would not work as the push rod would be too short. Luckily I saved the rod from the OEM master cylinder, re-plated it and installed it in the new master cylinder. Placed in position and bolted everything up.

Now I am ready to run a brake line to the rear. 

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,April 08, 2018, 03:16:07 PM
Made some more brake lines today, installed them on the rear suspension arms and made brake line clamps to hold in place. Then I  installed the JEGS rear brake proportioning valve along with the three way splitter.  After I installed it I thought about it some more and may move it up some more towards the front of the engine to eliminate two longer runs of brake line.  Need to think about it some more.

Installed the wheels.  I have been waiting for the day I would do this. Probably a bit premature, but I need to have suspension compression on the front of the car to install the anti-sway bar and this was the best way to accomplish that. Install the wheels and add weight to the front of the car. Starting to come together  :beerchug:

My nicest moment this weekend was getting a pair of custom stainless steel grille vents for the rear engine deck from BDA.  Very cool and will look great when everything is done on the body.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Sunday,April 08, 2018, 03:41:12 PM
Looks great Certified! Where are you going to locate the brake pressure differential switch ( brake warning light switch)? Also, what tires did you settle on?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,April 08, 2018, 04:00:56 PM
It seems to be coming together pretty smoothly! Man, that looks great on wheels!

Glad you like the screens. I think they'll look good on your car. I'm anxious to see it all come together!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Bodzer on Monday,April 09, 2018, 12:13:26 AM
Looking great! I’m at the same stage as you are. I’d love to come over and compare notes. I’m flying into Newark later but it’s only for the night. By the way, is that a Lenham hardtop in the background? I’m considering one for my Elan. Are they any good?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Monday,April 09, 2018, 04:47:13 AM
Make sure you use a big flat washer on the lower rear shock as I used one about the size you have and one of my shock popped off
on my first drive.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,April 09, 2018, 12:03:29 PM
Looks great Certified! Where are you going to locate the brake pressure differential switch ( brake warning light switch)? Also, what tires did you settle on?

Great question. I was trying to figure out how to combine the brake warning light switch and the brake light switch into one union. Has anyone done this where they removed the brake boosters?

I bought Toyo tires, 175 up front and 185 in the rear. Not as sticky as my Yokohama’s on my Elan, but I wanted to get the Europa running and broken in before I spend silly money on tires from the UK. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,April 09, 2018, 12:07:14 PM
Looking great! I’m at the same stage as you are. I’d love to come over and compare notes. I’m flying into Newark later but it’s only for the night. By the way, is that a Lenham hardtop in the background? I’m considering one for my Elan. Are they any good?

Bodzer, it’s a shame your not going to be in NJ for longer than one night. I’m about an hour from EWR. Next time plan to stop by, always have cold beer ready in the garage.

Good spotting. The hardtop is an original hardtop for my S1 Elan. Just bought it this winter. Needs to be restored so I haven’t fitted it to the car yet.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,April 09, 2018, 12:08:03 PM
It seems to be coming together pretty smoothly! Man, that looks great on wheels!

Glad you like the screens. I think they'll look good on your car. I'm anxious to see it all come together!

Thanks BDA!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,April 09, 2018, 12:08:48 PM
Make sure you use a big flat washer on the lower rear shock as I used one about the size you have and one of my shock popped off
on my first drive.

Oh boy, that is very good advice Bruce. Thanks!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,April 10, 2018, 04:00:29 PM
Looking fantastic Certified.

 I don’t know where you find time to complete all the items you have. Keep blazing along
Dave
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,April 13, 2018, 03:49:13 AM
Thanks a Dave. I try to spend at least a few hours a week on some aspect of the rebuild. Momentum is important to get a project done. When I can I do big pushes on weekends starting at 7am until dinner time. I can usually get an entire car rebuilt in a year working mostly on weekends (this is my third Lotus project). Sending the body out for fiberglass work and painting slowed me down a lot as I knew I’d be waiting for the body to return so I didn’t press as hard to get completed.

If I didn’t have a demanding day job I could do these rebuilds in a couple of months.......
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,April 13, 2018, 06:03:47 AM
A friend of mine who owns a 73 Europa told me that Lotus made the pneumatic rear deck panel opener as an OEM part the last year that Europa's were manufactured. I searched for either new OEM parts or used and could not find any. Luckily my friend had a used OEM one that I could use as a template along with detailed drawings and instructions on how to make your own. I know that a number of Lotus part sellers (like RD) sell a version of this, but I wanted mine to be as close to OEM as possible so I took the parts I had and the drawings to my local welding shop and had him fabricate the pieces.  Now I just need to source the two pneumatic struts, paint the metal pieces and wait for the body to come back from the shop.........

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,April 13, 2018, 06:19:02 AM
You might get the strut information from here: http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/body/struts/hoodproject.html
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,April 13, 2018, 06:42:52 AM
Thanks BDA. That is the information I used. Will source them from MCMaster.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Friday,April 13, 2018, 07:16:59 AM
I built my own and bought the struts as recommended above.  It works, and I understand why you want to keep the strut force low, but I would go a little stronger the next time as it doesn't take much of a wind to blow it shut.

YMMV
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,April 15, 2018, 01:42:30 PM
Last night a few friends came over for dinner and I brought them all into my garage to have them sit on the front of the chassis so I could bolt on the front anti-sway bar. Without weight on the front end bolting the bar to the lower shocks is impossible. Perfect fit with a couple of friends sitting and drinking while I was bolting things up  :beerchug:

Next was to install large stainless steel washers against the outside rear rubber bushings on the lower shock strut. I took heed to Bruce's warning.

I've been thinking about the brake system and the modifications I'm making to it.  One of the concerns was removing the Pressure Difference Warning Valve that was part of the brake booster system.  I created another post regarding this subject to get some focused responses:
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2555.0

After making my decision on eliminating the PDWV I went about routing brake lines. Yeah, the OEM routing had much to be desired (in my opinion) and after running a trial location from the 4 way splitter to the left side connection for the swing arm I thought to myself, this makes no sense routing the brake line this way.  I drilled a hole in the chassis, painted the bare metal, put a rubber grommet in the hole and ran the brake line on he inside of the chassis. There we go. Much nicer installation and better protection to the brake line but still accessible.

Small steps, but every movement forward counts.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,April 15, 2018, 02:06:06 PM
Looks nice!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Sunday,April 15, 2018, 02:46:30 PM
WHAT?  No picture of the guests all sitting down on the job????  :FUNNY:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Sunday,April 15, 2018, 04:26:17 PM
To bring the ends in to attach to the shockers at the bottom, I wind a ratchet strap around both ends of the bar, and the tighten the ratchet until the holes on the anti-roll bar line up with the studs coming out from the bottom of the shockers.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,April 30, 2018, 04:08:40 AM
Too much business travel and spring yard work have limited my time to work on the Europa the past several weeks. I found my "spare" SOVY tank and float from the Elan S4 restoration I did 2 years ago. Cleaned it up, put new washers/gaskets in it and screwed it right onto the master cylinder. Will disassemble again to electroplate the can.  I made a note to run wiring from it to the dash when the body comes back from the body shop.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,May 01, 2018, 02:38:28 AM
To bring the ends in to attach to the shockers at the bottom, I wind a ratchet strap around both ends of the bar, and the tighten the ratchet until the holes on the anti-roll bar line up with the studs coming out from the bottom of the shockers.

Hadn’t thought of that. Great idea. Will remember for next time. Thanks!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: seniorchristo on Sunday,May 13, 2018, 03:51:07 PM
  :) LOG38 -  August 10  - tick tick tick..........  :))
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,May 13, 2018, 04:45:21 PM
Yeah, I gave the body shop a deadline of end of June to finish. If I don’t get it back by then there is no way I can finish the car and road test it. If I don’t get it done the Elan S1 is ready for the trip.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,July 24, 2018, 03:57:24 AM
As usual life gets in the way of the fun stuff......my day job has been very time consuming lately so very little time for my “Lotus Garage”. And the body shop is making progress slowly with the doors finally sanded and some fiberglass work I had specified.

Bottom line the Europa will not be completed for LOG in Ohio, but I will be there with my Elan S1.

I’ve settled for a winter completion in my head. Let’s see what really happens.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,July 24, 2018, 06:07:15 AM
Sorry to hear your Europa won't make it to the LOG. Your body shop is taking a lot longer than mine took for me - and I thought mine was slow. You should be very impressed with the results when you finally retrieve it!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,July 27, 2018, 04:21:15 AM
Thanks BDA. Your frame of mind is similar to mine. Luckily I have enough other things to keep me busy that I’m not frustrated waiting......
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Friday,July 27, 2018, 02:33:06 PM
I had 2 pages typed and i was interrupted.

 Give them time. !  I am redoing some panels due to shrinkage.
dakazman

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Monday,July 30, 2018, 06:01:56 AM
I think it would be a good to fit your hood lift before paint, as when I put mine in it chips up some of the paint on the bonnet.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,August 09, 2018, 01:42:17 AM
Excellent suggestion Bruce. Will deliver the bracket when I get back from LOG38. See you there!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,August 28, 2018, 07:34:49 PM
Got an update from my body shop today, they have started the fiberglass work that I requested. Filling in the hole for the antenna and the side lights front and rear (otherwise called shaving, although I don’t know why). I’m hoping to get the finished painted body back by end of October.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,August 28, 2018, 07:55:34 PM
It looks good but I sure would have expected them to be much further along than that! IIRC it took my body shop six weeks to do mine and I thought that was a long time! Hopefully, the rest will come quickly and you'll get it back soon!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,August 29, 2018, 03:45:12 AM
Every fiberglass shop I talked to told me minimum of 6 months. And it would take 6 months to get in line. The good ones know you can’t rush working on these cars. As long as I have it before winter starts so I can finish it over the winter I’m good. If all goes well will be driving it next spring.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Wednesday,August 29, 2018, 10:44:23 AM
Every fiberglass shop I talked to told me minimum of 6 months. And it would take 6 months to get in line. The good ones know you can’t rush working on these cars. As long as I have it before winter starts so I can finish it over the winter I’m good. If all goes well will be driving it next spring.

My #5 is in the paint shop. This one is yellow. They have had black, lagoon blue, lagoon blue, black.

They average about 6 months for each one. Next black with final red. It it were snooker it would be R Blk, R Blu, R Blu, R Blk, R Y, R Blk, R. 40 points I reckon. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Wednesday,August 29, 2018, 02:04:12 PM
 Certified,
    Good move on the side lights , it will clean up the appearance nicely and wish I closed them up also. I missed my summer deadline and waiting for fall , December, to finish my paint work. Lol, I know we don’t wait around , think of it as a time out.. too prepare.
 You still have a lot to think about and gather parts and vendors. Such as dash , seat colors , rugs, and wiring. ( wish I used your suggestion on a complete harness) . Bumpers , heater etc, etc. backup cameras, turbos.
  Can’t wait to see the outcome!
Dakazman
   
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,September 18, 2018, 08:46:01 PM
The mystery of why the car was repainted is finally solved. And a acknowledgment that the PO wasn’t entirely thruthful about it. The P.O. said he knew the car from its first owner, but couldn’t tell me why it was repainted. Said it was that way from the beginning. I was always suspicious of this along with the very amature repairs. Anyway, back to the subject at hand......

Seems the left quarter panel had a shunt and the repair was only done with glue, not reglassed. So everything that was glued is being removed and reglassed. The right way.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Wednesday,September 19, 2018, 06:10:57 AM
Certified,
That will be the best course of action for the restoration!
Sorry to hear about it but the body must be correct.
Be patient..., please.   Your build is flawless so far and details..detailed .
Stay the course.
   As others have warned me about the A pillar cracking and add support , you may look into.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,September 20, 2018, 11:49:59 PM
Dakazman, your absolutely right. Be patient and fix it properly. I’m on my fourth classic Lotus restoration (I just bought a 65 Elan S2) and it always amazes me what creeps up regarding the history of these cars.  At least it wasn’t the entire rear clip that was damaged (my glass is usually half full). On ward!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,October 19, 2018, 05:53:10 AM
Any progress to report, Certified? I haven't heard from you in a while.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,October 19, 2018, 02:05:38 PM
I’m being very very patient waiting for the body shop to finish.......
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,October 19, 2018, 02:17:01 PM
You are VERY patient indeed! After all this time, it should be perfect. I'm anxious for you!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Friday,October 19, 2018, 04:22:01 PM
 Me too!
Dave
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,October 21, 2018, 02:41:12 PM
My Europa chassis got some fresh air and sunlight this weekend! Although it was pushed around due to needing to move it for some work on a Elan S2 I just bought, I heard vrooom vroom in the background.......

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Sunday,October 21, 2018, 03:04:34 PM
I don't know if you got your gas strut for the engine cover yet but today working on my Europa I was thing the 20# struts are a little light and maybe I should have gone with something stronger?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,October 21, 2018, 03:34:58 PM
It's nice for your frame to get some fresh air! It looks pretty. Too bad it's going to be covered up! But then when you put your freshly painted body over it, covering it up won't be a hardship.

I hate seeing pictures of your garage... it makes me so jealous! But then I was already jealous of your first Elan and now you have a second! Geez, Certified! It keeps getting better for you! Good for you!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Sunday,October 21, 2018, 04:04:47 PM
 Certified, BDA always says exactly what I was thinking.    Just imagine,
    the phone rings !!!
    It’s the body shop   ...yeah ,,, yeah
    Please come and inspect your car  ... it’s finished!!!
    Coming soon in your future  ! Then...The real work will start.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,October 22, 2018, 03:46:17 AM
Thanks guys.

Bruce I have not bought the struts yet so good advice on getting the higher rated ones.

BDA, I bought the S2 to restore a little nicer and then sell it. It’s a true survivor car with everything mostly original. Need to pull the diff and rebuild as the last item and then she goes on the market.

Dave, nice dream but my body shop guy is having some medical problems and it might be a while longer before I get it back. But I’ve got an S2 to work on!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Monday,October 22, 2018, 06:58:47 AM
 Certified,
   Sorry for the setback, I hope your body man has a speedy recovery.
Dave
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,October 30, 2018, 10:36:06 AM
Dropped off the engine deck cross bar for the gas struts so it can be installed before final painting. Dave was in the paint booth applying a couple of coats of primer on my Europa  :pirate:  next comes blocking and filling the pin holes. Getting closer. I’m glad I shaved the front and rear side markers, I like the way it looks.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,October 30, 2018, 10:53:56 AM
Finally some visible progress after all these months!!!  :beerchug:

I know you're anxious for the return of your new yellow body! That is now a palpable eventuality!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Tuesday,October 30, 2018, 11:27:51 AM
Looking good Certified!  :beerchug:
Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,October 30, 2018, 11:36:29 AM
Thanks guys. I also dropped off an original Lotus color paint chip sheet from 1971 so the yellow paint can be matched exactly. Dave said he had never seen one in all these years and was amazed I had one that wasn’t faded.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,October 30, 2018, 11:59:51 AM
I was led to believe that providing the paint code was all you needed. http://lotus-europa.com/colors.html
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Tuesday,October 30, 2018, 12:15:10 PM
I was led to believe that providing the paint code was all you needed. http://lotus-europa.com/colors.html

The paint shop I use is owned by ex Lotus employees.

They sprayed an Elan yellow, but when the yellow arrived, ordered to paint code, it was too orange (a bit like the Lotus badge)  :lotus: so they sent it back. They then sprayed the Elan in a lighter yellow which looked really good.

I made sure they used the same yellow when they painted 4259R, my #5. It looks really good.

When I can get my Land Cruiser to start, I can pick it up and take in 4483R to be painted in JPS livery.

My other toy is sky blue and marigold. Replacement front and rear clams from the factory were a paler blue than the original, so even the factory can have a variation in colour.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,October 30, 2018, 12:22:43 PM
I guess it's always best to check before spraying the car. When I had my car in the paint shop, I didn't think that anybody would know what a Lotus paint code translated to for modern paints. I found a car with a color I liked ('95 Corvette white) and they painted my car that color.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,October 30, 2018, 12:26:23 PM
With modern technology the scanners they have at automotive paint suppliers can match any paint chip you have as long as it’s 2 square inches. I trust this process much more than a paint code that someone suggests from paint that is 50 years old.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,November 16, 2018, 04:40:23 AM
Update from the body shop. Got the primer all on, putty coated pinholes, got it all blocked down, next 3 more coats of primer and block down. I will be working on the doors, hood, engine cover.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,November 16, 2018, 05:50:09 AM
Few more body shop photos:

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Friday,November 16, 2018, 05:56:52 AM
 :trophy: Looks great Certified! You haven’t been tempted to go with flat primer gray as your final color?  ;)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,November 16, 2018, 06:03:03 AM
It's great to finally have some visual progress! I know you can't wait for the color to go on. Im really looking forward to seeing the final result? She's going to be a beauty!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Bainford on Friday,November 16, 2018, 09:17:19 AM
Hey, that's looking great. Exciting stuff.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Friday,November 16, 2018, 04:16:11 PM
 Looooooking  Goooooood!!!! :coolpic:
The shaved out side markers is very clean .  Happy for you .
Dave
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,November 17, 2018, 07:17:40 AM
Thanks guys! Appreciate all the moral support! I’m hoping to be able to reassemble the Europa this Winter/Spring and have it on the road early summer 2019.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Saturday,November 17, 2018, 07:24:05 AM
Looking good you have to let me know when it's done.
Hope Dave is doing well.
I have a new 4 post lift to install today.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,November 17, 2018, 08:34:32 AM
Congrats on the lift Bruce. We want pics after it installed!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,November 17, 2018, 11:28:25 AM
Thanks brucelotus26r! I have a bad enough case of garage envy already without hearing of your good news!

Envy aside, please post pictures when your lift is installed!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Saturday,November 17, 2018, 05:12:10 PM
Thanks brucelotus26r! I have a bad enough case of garage envy already without hearing of your good news!

Envy aside, please post pictures when your lift is installed!


Ditto that .... Going to try to sell wife on it... 😂
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,November 17, 2018, 05:26:52 PM
The two post lift I installed in my garage was the best thing I ever did. And I got my wife to buy it for me as a birthday present!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,December 18, 2018, 05:58:20 AM
It’s all about the little details when prepping the body for paint.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,December 18, 2018, 05:34:41 PM
Certified,   It looks like you chose the right man for the job . These cars are  very difficult to perfect being only a few mm thick. Step by step , anything less would be totally unacceptable is a phrase an old German guy would say to me.
Looking good,
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,December 19, 2018, 01:21:05 AM
Thanks a Dakazman. I’ve finally resigned myself to understanding that I’ll get my car back when Dave believes he has completed it, not when I want it. Another one of those life journeys where you just need to go for the ride and not steer.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Lou Drozdowski on Wednesday,December 19, 2018, 04:08:54 AM
Besides being one of the best glass-er and painters I have had the pleasure to know...

He could always be Willie Nelson's body double. Thank you Dave!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,February 05, 2019, 04:37:27 PM
Mission control we have color..........
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,February 05, 2019, 04:40:46 PM
Alright! Now you're cooking with gas! She ought to be a beauty!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 1970EuropaGuy on Tuesday,February 05, 2019, 06:09:57 PM
Looking great and... very yellow!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Tuesday,February 05, 2019, 06:19:52 PM
Oh yeah! Looks terrific Certified! Keep those update posts coming!
t
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: lotusfanatic on Tuesday,February 05, 2019, 10:34:43 PM
beautiful!  8)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Bodzer on Wednesday,February 06, 2019, 12:49:45 AM
Looks superb! I’ve just finished stripping the paint off mine. Now for the repairs!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Wednesday,February 06, 2019, 06:30:27 AM
Looks great, hope it's coming home soon.
I'm waiting for some parts for the head on engine so I can get it back together and in the car?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Wednesday,February 06, 2019, 08:31:57 AM
Wow WOW Wow.Hopefully.. Soon all those goodies will now be clearing out of your garage.
Dave
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Bainford on Wednesday,February 06, 2019, 09:15:44 AM
Very nice! Exciting times.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,February 25, 2019, 05:30:40 AM
Had my local upholstery shop make me new sun visors. The OEM versions desinegrated and this is what they came up with to replace. Not exactly OEM but the will work nicely.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Monday,February 25, 2019, 05:35:14 AM
BETTER than OEM, i'm sure!   Very nice.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,February 25, 2019, 07:12:01 AM
The visors look great! I agree with Ted, they're nicer than stock.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Monday,February 25, 2019, 05:24:13 PM
  Looks great certified,  :beerchug:
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: andy harwood on Monday,February 25, 2019, 10:49:21 PM
That looks GREAT!!! Really liking the Hi-Vis Yellow!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,February 26, 2019, 01:59:50 PM
Stopped by Dave’s shop today. My Europa should be done in a couple of weeks. The battery tray is being fiberglassed and we discussed the black paint color for the engine bay and underside of the engine cover. All coming together very nicely. Dave does very nice work.

I had an original and very rare to find paint chip color chart of the original Lotus colors. The yellow match was spot on!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,February 26, 2019, 02:09:52 PM
Boy certified, it looks like a scale toy , beautiful color choice!
I laughed a little because When I lived up north I dressed like Dave.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,February 26, 2019, 03:32:02 PM
She's going to be a beauty!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Tuesday,February 26, 2019, 08:04:47 PM
I laughed a little because When I lived up north I dressed like Dave.
Dakazman

What...? Doesn't everybody wear comfy flannel all the time???
t
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Friday,March 01, 2019, 04:33:41 AM
I laughed a little because When I lived up north I dressed like Dave.
Dakazman

What...? Doesn't everybody wear comfy flannel all the time???
t

I still have them in my closet,..LOL just in case it gets cold.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,March 01, 2019, 05:33:10 AM
Got rid of my flannels years ago, but clearly they are back in style!

Back to Europa restoration work. Now that the painted body is near completion I needed to work on the window trim that was removed. Of course everything had black sealant on it that required some work to remove and get as much of it off as possible before reinstalling. M600 is my favorite solvent for this. It is very gentle on painted surfaces but does a great job of removing adhesive and overspray. Just got my order from RD for all the rubber moldings and weather strips to install.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Friday,March 01, 2019, 08:43:40 AM
M600 ???    In the original dispenser bottle sold in stores???   ;D
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,March 04, 2019, 05:27:22 PM
Installed new glass weather strips and the clips that hold them in. This is clearly easiest to do with the window frames out of the car. The old ones were very worn.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,March 05, 2019, 06:43:07 PM
Stopped by Dave’s shop today to drop off the window frames to reinstall in the doors. Couldn’t help myself to take a photo of my Europa with an appropriate subject matter in the background........
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,March 05, 2019, 06:52:16 PM
You need to kidnap that and bring it home!!!

 :lotus:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Lou Drozdowski on Tuesday,March 05, 2019, 07:53:20 PM
You need to kidnap that and bring it home!!!

 :lotus:
...it's been there a long time
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Friday,March 08, 2019, 06:34:02 AM
Do try the cross peace for your engine cover lift at some point?
You don't want to chip the new paint.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Friday,March 08, 2019, 10:19:44 AM
I know what you mean, it’s at such a clean slate that everything you add to it completes it.
Some of the old parts just don’t belong on it unless they are reconditioned or replaced. Soon you’ll be doing a leak check on it. Keep sneaking in some pics.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,March 09, 2019, 04:45:10 AM
Do try the cross peace for your engine cover lift at some point?
You don't want to chip the new paint.

Yes, trial fitted the engine deck lid with the cross piece for the gas struts. No issues. Although will have to drill a few holes to rivet it in.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,March 09, 2019, 04:50:33 AM
I know what you mean, it’s at such a clean slate that everything you add to it completes it.
Some of the old parts just don’t belong on it unless they are reconditioned or replaced. Soon you’ll be doing a leak check on it. Keep sneaking in some pics.
Dakazman

Your right Dave, it’s a slippery slope putting old parts on a freshly painted car. Luckily there aren’t too many chrome pieces. I had the bumpers rechromed a while ago and I bought new hinges, door handles and locks. The rear tail light and front head light trim rings I think I can polish up nicely and don’t need to replace (will see).

Leak test? Anything is better than my 64 Elan S1 which streams water inside the car if driving in heavy rain. Of course, I really don’t expect to be driving in the rain very much......
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Saturday,March 09, 2019, 06:20:38 AM
I hope this years LOG drive is not like the drive home last year?
I was thing we needed a submarine. :FUNNY:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,March 09, 2019, 06:29:27 AM
3 days of driving in heavy rain, but the beginning and end of the road trip was glorious. And having you and Debbie join made it all the more fun!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Sunday,March 10, 2019, 07:26:55 AM
I hope we can make this year LOG trip even better and maybe get some of the people on this site to join use ? :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Sunday,March 10, 2019, 09:19:03 AM
if Glen finishes his new Europa.... and Bruce gets his engine back into his.....  i'll feel orphaned with my Elan riding along.? :)
regardless, i'm up for another ROAD TRIP!!!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,March 10, 2019, 10:54:03 AM
I have blocked the days on my calendar for our road trip. It was a lot of fun!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,April 11, 2019, 04:30:07 PM
Our local Lotus club (Philadelphia Area Lotus Society or PALS) is holding a 2019 garage tour of members garages that are workshop oriented. I was the second garage on the tour and we had a great turn out.  One of our members brought his 1973 Lotus Europa Special and we parked it right next to my rolling chassis to provide an understanding of what is really beneath the fiberglass.  It was better than a cut-away drawing!

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 1970EuropaGuy on Thursday,April 11, 2019, 07:39:52 PM
Great photos! I spent some time looking at them to get a better understanding of what my chassis looks like. Keep the photos coming!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,May 08, 2019, 04:18:21 PM
Body parts are coming home! Went to visit Dave’s shop today as he said most of the body is done and I can start picking up various parts. It didn’t take much to get me to show up at his shop following his communication.

Brought the engine deck and front bonnet home. Next week i’m Picking up the body with a number of friends to help load into a box truck. Following that the doors and the front splitter.

My wife asked me how long to compete the Europa once I have everything in my garage. Good question dear. I figure two months, or the day before I leave for LOG. Which ever comes first.


Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,May 08, 2019, 04:50:50 PM
Oh man!!! That's GOT to feel good!! Now things will get a whole lot more interesting and then fun!

Given the amount of time he had it, I know it must be really beautiful! I can't wait to hear your first driving impressions!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Wednesday,May 08, 2019, 06:10:30 PM
Certified,
Glad to hear your baby is coming home. It looked very lonely in the shop and I know you missed her.
Two months sounds doable for you. Dave did a great job. They are a challenge to paint and finish correctly. Hope to hear and see an update next week.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Thursday,May 09, 2019, 05:17:22 AM
Certified,
This post made my day, as I’m sure is made your week (month? Year? Lifetime?) congrats and looking forward to meeting you at Log39!
Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,May 15, 2019, 12:35:08 PM
It was a long journey but all well worth it. Brought my Europa body home from Dave's shop today!  I'm lucky to have great Lotus friends who helped me today.  Ted, Bruce and Roman all volunteered (well, I did bribe them with lunch at a local restaurant) to help me pick up the Europa and off load it into my garage. For those of you on the East coast you will know its been raining for days.  Not today. Blue skies and sunshine with a slight breeze.

Picked up the 20ft UHaul box truck, drove to Dave's shop, loaded the body, strapped it in and drove back to my house to unload. All went like clock work  :pirate:

Thanks again to my friends! 

Now comes the fun part. Putting it back together again!

 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,May 15, 2019, 01:58:18 PM
WooHoo!!!  :pirate:  :beerchug:

It has been a long time coming so I know you're over the moon! She's really going to be a looker! Keep us up to date on the build.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Wednesday,May 15, 2019, 04:11:33 PM
Congrats Certified! Nice looking paint work!  :trophy:  :BEER3:
t
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Wednesday,May 15, 2019, 04:47:28 PM
Job well done!
 Credits to Dave and you for that patience that is required at times like this . You gave her another 50 years of life. 👍👍
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,May 15, 2019, 04:52:01 PM
Thanks guys! Now for the finish work.....

A short video of bringing her home:

https://youtu.be/VJPARtKBhh0
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,May 15, 2019, 05:59:51 PM
Your link takes me to a youtube studio.  :(
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,May 15, 2019, 07:53:21 PM
New link in the post.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,May 15, 2019, 08:35:50 PM
Bad Mutha!!

Congratulations on the homecoming!!  :trophy:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Sandyman on Thursday,May 16, 2019, 04:01:50 AM
Certified, Great video! Nice you had those kids to help you. : :FUNNY: How long do you think before she is self propelled?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,May 16, 2019, 06:08:06 AM
Yes, my young friends (I’m the old guy). Hope to have it back on the road before LOG39 in August.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Thursday,May 16, 2019, 08:34:28 AM
Oh yeah ! What BDA said, ..Bad Mutha!  :beerchug:
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,May 17, 2019, 09:16:57 PM
Small progress today. Came home from work and installed the front bumper and Lotus badge.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,May 17, 2019, 09:22:40 PM
 Now she has a smile and knows her name!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: seniorchristo on Saturday,May 18, 2019, 05:30:37 AM
Great job Glen!  I'm looking forward to helping with the reassembly!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Saturday,May 18, 2019, 04:22:09 PM
Now she has a smile and knows her name!
[/quote

 LOL. Very nice smile. :FUNNY:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Saturday,May 18, 2019, 04:43:32 PM
Great job Glen!  I'm looking forward to helping with the reassembly!  :beerchug:
Chris,
how much $$$ do you charge by the hour?   :FUNNY:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,May 18, 2019, 06:55:10 PM
Ted, free beer, lunch and use of all tools in my shop. Plus my most pleasant company. What else could you ask for?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,May 18, 2019, 09:33:02 PM
Small progress today as I decided to go to a local (well, an hour drive away) sports car restorers open house late morning which kind of shot my day. Never the less, glad I went to Rag Top & Roadsters open house as a number of friends were there and some very nice sports cars. It was a clear blue sky day, who could resist a couple of hours of back road driving in my Elan S1.......

While fitting the rear bumper it became clear the two of the mounting holes where missing. A quick survey of the interior of the body should they were glassed over.  So I mounted the bumper with the two holes that were still open in the body, drilled out the previous holes and installed the bolts, washers and nuts. 

The new aluminum radiator had its own issue. It must be the day for correcting things. The threaded hole for the fan temp sensor was threaded 5/8-18.  The sensor is threaded as a pipe thread.  I didn't have that size tap to re-thread it so off to my friend Drew's garage to use his. Once we got it rethreaded, put sealer on the sensor thread and installed.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,May 19, 2019, 06:23:39 AM
Another step in your journey!

This is a great stage because it starts looking like a car very quickly. It can also be the more tedious stage too because people can see more of what you do and more things are not just a matter of bolting pieces together.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,May 19, 2019, 06:50:14 AM
Completely agree BDA.  The devil is in the details!   

I had a couple of hours this morning before my wife and I go on a designer show house tour today (yup, need to keep your wife happy if you want to work in the garage all the time).

Restored and installed the front turn signals.  I had already ordered new gaskets from R&D.  Dismantled the housing, cleaned all the metal washers, nuts and threaded studs. Sprayed everything metal with Rustlick 606 to prevent rusting (at least slow it down). All chrome pieces are cleaned and polished. Plastic is hand washed with mild soap detergent and a sponge. Reassemble and install. I remembered the nuts are British standard and found my "special" sockets to tighten down.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,May 19, 2019, 07:00:53 AM
British standard? Are they "normally" threaded nuts (eg. 10-32) with non-SAE hexes?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,May 19, 2019, 07:10:45 AM
When I took them off not one of my sockets fit except British Standard. I tried again today to see if any of my sockets would fit the nuts, nope. Only British standard.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,May 19, 2019, 09:04:50 AM
Back in the day, my Lola racecar had a windscreen that was screwed on with 10-32 screws but I didn't have a wrench that fit the nuts. They drove me crazy till  I got rid of the windscreen but I think I still have some of those nuts.  >:( I don't remember having that problem with the turn signal mounts but I may have just used "normal" 10-32 (or were they 8-32?) AN nuts as a practice.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: cwtech on Monday,May 20, 2019, 07:05:02 AM
When I took them off not one of my sockets fit except British Standard. I tried again today to see if any of my sockets would fit the nuts, nope. Only British standard.

I guess it's true that I'm never too old to learn!

Here in the USA, hex nuts for a 10-32 screw are usually 11/32" or 3/8" across the flats.

According to sources on the 'net:  British Standard Whitworth 3/16" hex nuts are .445" across the flats,  British Standard Fine are 11/32" across flats.  ...I also see a British Association designation of 2BA screw of .185" diameter having 31.4 tpi, requiring a 2BA socket.

Just curious, do you know what the measurement across the flats of the nut is?  ...How is the socket which fit marked?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: TheKid#9 on Monday,May 20, 2019, 07:49:29 PM
Hey Glen and everyone.

The europa is coming along nice. Keep it up!

I haven't been on here in a long, long time. Everything is going well in my life, I had some unfortunate things happen in my personal life that I needed to take care of. Luckily ALL OF THAT is in the past now. Don't worry, I still have my europa and my health is much better now. Glad to see the forum is still thriving and new members are joining. For those that do not know me, I welcome you!
I'll let you guys know if I decide to make it up to LOG this year. It would be a road trip but its been a long time since I've talked to Lotus fans. I might see if I can make it happen this year.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,May 20, 2019, 08:02:30 PM
Hey Kid! It's great to hear from you! I hope you can make it to the LOG this year, but unfortunately I won't be able to meet you there.

I'm sorry to hear you had some health issues but I'm glad that's in the past.

Welcome back!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,May 20, 2019, 09:15:21 PM
Chris, great to hear from you! Glad to know your alright and you still have your Europa. There have been many times I have thought about the restoration of your car while I was working on mine.

Let me know if you decide to go to LOG this year. Several of us from the NJ area are talking the slow route driving back roads over two days in classic Lotus cars (meaning older). You are welcome to join us!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,May 20, 2019, 09:34:33 PM
cwtech, the socket size is 3/16BS. See photos below. The nuts are already installed and I would have to remove them to get the measurement of the flat across the nut. Sorry, but I’m trying to move forward on my rebuild, not backwards.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: cwtech on Tuesday,May 21, 2019, 05:53:14 AM
Thanks, Glen!

No, I wouldn't ask, or expect, you to take anything apart for measurement.  ...I didn't know if you had measured the nuts while searching for a socket.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,May 22, 2019, 08:11:38 AM
Installed the headlight speed nuts on the body, rubber gaskets, headlight bowl assembly and trim ring.  The original metal bowls were rusted and I was going to restore them when I saw how inexpensive they were from RD.  It was cheaper to buy new than to restore the old ones. I used stainless screws for attaching and new rubber gaskets. The chrome trim rings just needed a good polishing. Reinstalling the trim rings is a bit odd as they need to snap onto the metal bowl protrusions and it takes some finessing to get right.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Wednesday,May 22, 2019, 09:38:37 AM
I believe that it’s the same as moss motors Triumph gt6 headlight assembly.
Looks great certified 😀👍
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,May 22, 2019, 09:45:02 AM
Those headlight buckets and their adjusting system is used by a lot of British cars - e.g. MGs, early Triumphs, and probably many more. Sometimes the trim ring can be very difficult to get off the bucket so be careful.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Wednesday,May 22, 2019, 12:02:40 PM
There are multiple versions of the headlight trim ring and they are not interchangeable.  Some attach with a screw, some with a clip, etc.  Make sure you use whatever matches your bucket.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Wednesday,May 22, 2019, 12:40:31 PM
But the screws go in the bottom. They were used on all minis.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,May 22, 2019, 04:58:14 PM
No screws on these trim rings. And yes they are a pain to remove and get back on. I made the "special tool" identified in the shop manual to remove the trim ring. No scratching my new paint job .......
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,May 22, 2019, 05:16:33 PM
More progress today. Gotta tell you, taking lots of photos during the strip down of the Europa and labeling every single thing in zip lock bags is a must do.  After 19 months away from the body of the car its amazing what you forget.  And of course I'm also modifying along the way so everything becomes a rethink process before I finalize the install. I'm expecting my 2 month completion or the day before leaving for LOG to be on target. Lets see if I make it  :beerchug:
Latest work: 

*Dismantle the rear tail lights, clean, polish and install new gaskets.
*Install new license plate light fixtures
*I went to install the rubber bumpers for the rear engine deck only to find the left side had the hole glassed over and painted. Measured location for hole, drilled and installed.
*I got new custom vent screens from BDA last year.  They look very cool (nice work BDA) and I'm trying to decide if I should leave them metal color or black. Sleeping on that one.
*Installed the side badges and rear deck badge.
*Media blasted the door catches.  Will electroplate these before installing.

Time for a beer  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,May 23, 2019, 06:23:55 AM
Glad you like the screens! The deck is curved slightly so gently bending them to as close to that will help in installing them and make them a bit more prominent. It didn't occur to me to paint mine but it might be a good idea. After all, the original screens were black and on my white car, they kind of blend in. That would probably be less of an issue on your car but it would certainly make more of a statement!

I didn't plate my door catches and I wish I had.

Good job bagging everything! I didn't and don't remember having many problems finding things but when I look back I'm amazed that at least that aspect of my build went as smoothly as I (think) I remember it did!

She's looking better each time you post. Pretty exciting, isn't it!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Thursday,May 23, 2019, 08:46:44 AM
Looking really sweet.
Bagging is very important. I keep things relatively together , but I wish I would have saved more bolts. I probably threw away most thinking I would replace . Another item is I that you are taking, a posting pics with the part numbers, Excellent idea.
 Certified, after  I disassembled 7 yokes yesterday ( yes I-was yoking around ) I found that not one had the slinger we talked about. Just another item to order.
Keep up the momentum!
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,May 23, 2019, 08:55:30 AM
I would throw out all the 50 year old bolts and use new. I replaced mine with AN hardware, which I admit is a lot of extra work and is overkill for the application, but certainly replace them with grade 5 or grade 8 hardware. The parts manual explains the code for bolt sizes if you don't have an original one to match against or you can just measure as you go.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Thursday,May 23, 2019, 09:05:59 AM
Doing just that , put in some ABS bolts all ready and AS. I n Ed another trip down to a aircraft surplus shop. We have a big one down here . Another source is a local hardware shop that is like a candy store. Travis hardware. I think he get items from the cape. Sometimes cheap , sometimes not.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,May 23, 2019, 11:59:20 AM
BDA, decided to leave the screen vents natural metal. No painting. Regarding nuts, bolts and washers....even though I replace most with grade 8 or stainless steel, I save every used bolt until I finish the project. You just never know when you need something.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,May 23, 2019, 12:43:44 PM
You got me, Certified! I really misspoke because, like you, I throw away very few nuts, bolts, and washers - mostly only when they have degraded significantly or maybe a weird size like those British Standard nuts. I still have some hardware from when I was racing in the mid '70s! You are right that you never know when you might need that nut or bolt. So I wouldn't actually throw them out. Certainly holding onto the bolts that came off your car before you rebuild it is useful for purchasing new replacements. I tend not to keep un-graded bolts (those that are not grade 5,grade 8 or of a known quality) but I even keep some of those for possible use on a lawnmower or a house project.

So that's pretty much what I actually do wrt old hardware. Thanks for pointing that out so I could clarify!  :)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Thursday,May 23, 2019, 02:29:28 PM
I got a long sheet of thin ply, about 6" x 24", drilled appropriate sized holes, and put bolts of UNF, UNC and metric through the holes and named them, so I can identify any bolt I find.

Saves a lot of time when matching bolts.

I keep old sweetcorn tins and fill them with nuts bolts and washers of the same type.

I have a huge collection, old, new, plain, Nylok.

It makes assembly much easier, always the correct nut, bolt, or washer available in large numbers.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,May 24, 2019, 04:14:32 AM
Dakazman, if I had a aircraft surplus shop near me I would be in big trouble.  I love used aircraft parts. Might be a big impact on my car restoration budget.

BDA, I'm like you. I save unusual and graded bolts for future use.  The plain jane stuff gets thrown away or moved to my wood working shop where home repairs are done as I always need some type of bolt or screw and just one of them.

4129R, not sure what a sweetcorn tin is but I have a similar "collection" of used and new nuts bolts and washers stored in various containers. I'm smiling at your ingenuity building a "bolt board".  I took the easy way out and bought them.....

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,May 24, 2019, 04:41:21 AM
I was working on various parts of the car yesterday. I try to figure out what needs longer set up or curing time and start those projects so I can work on other things while that is going on.

So I started my day with gluing the BDA Custom rear engine deck screens to the underside of the deck knowing it would be 24 hours before complete curing was accomplished. I then did a test brushing of the undercoat material I will be using for the wheel wells.

The rubber boot cover for the Lovejoy (no joke guys) shift linkage ujoint (sold by RD) arrived so I set about greasing the ujoint before installing the boot cover and securing. Then I attached the rear shift tube and attached the back of the transaxle. I know this requires some major adjusting of the thread lengths of the two shift tubes between the shift ujoint in order to have the proper gear selection, but that is for another day.

I had noticed that one of the rivets had pulled away from the bottom skirt to the interior body mold on the right side of the car. Of course it happened after painting. Drilled out the old rivet, installed a new one (with a washer backing) and will paint the body color later.

New aluminum fuel tanks needed installing. Spend a couple of hours test fitting then drilling out the mounting tabs for the correct size bolt and taping the washers and lock nuts inside of the tabs so they are easier to install.  Will mange the actual bolt in over the weekend.


Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Friday,May 24, 2019, 05:51:36 AM
Some goodies I see going in I see😀👍.  It’s definitely going to be a masterpiece inside and out .
Dave
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,May 24, 2019, 06:49:42 AM
Things are starting to come together! Packing to u-joint with grease and putting a boot over it is a good idea.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,May 25, 2019, 04:57:35 AM
Got the right side fuel tank installed.  Getting all the bolts to line up and then tighten them by myself was a bear. So I got my helper extraordinaire to come to my side of the garage shop area (were she rarely ventures) and help out. She didn't understand was all the fuss was about. It was easy to hold the wrench.......

The filler tube needed media blasting and painting. Then the proper length of the rubber hose to connect the filler and tank. Installing the new rubber grommet on the filler tube and the body was fairly easy.  Just leave the grommet on the smaller part of the filler tube (above the vent tube) and insert the whole assembly into the body hole for the filler. You can easily push the grommet seam in with a plastic tool and then push the filler down to the edge of the grommet seal. Painted a finish coat of black enamel on the metal trim ring. 

The silicone adhesive cured on the rear engine deck screens. Painted the stainless black where it was against the fiberglass so it blended in.

Next was the left side fuel tank. Of course it wouldn't fit from inside the engine bay so I had to move around the leg from my lift around in order to fit the tank in from the bottom. Ran out of time as my helper and I had dinner reservations. Will finish the left tank install tomorrow.




Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Saturday,May 25, 2019, 05:27:09 AM
Excellent work, but is that your finished gas cap?    No "flip top" ?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,May 25, 2019, 05:54:44 AM
That is the OEM gas cap for a ‘72 Europa. Plus, I have a brand new pair from new old stock.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Saturday,May 25, 2019, 10:56:41 AM
You sub contracted out work, with as BDA would say,”beautiful assistant” . That’s a great picture.
 I didn’t see the holes for the engine cover hinges. I also need to drill then in. Holding my breath of course.
Keep posting certified.
Hav a safe weekend.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Pfreen on Saturday,May 25, 2019, 02:35:32 PM
 Why did you use a bolt in the shifter to transmission connection?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,May 25, 2019, 07:48:10 PM
Dave, no worries about the holes for the engine cover hinges. They are there!

PFreen, the bolt is temporary until I know that I have the shift tube adjusted appropriately. Then I will install the roll pin.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Sunday,May 26, 2019, 12:12:57 AM
Excellent work, but is that your finished gas cap?    No "flip top" ?

72 TC had screw tops.
73TCS had flip tops.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,May 27, 2019, 05:31:38 AM
Gotta love a long holiday weekend when you have lots of Lotus restoration work to do. 

I decided to start the early morning with something simple like putting the new LOTUS letters on the rear engine deck. Well, that was nice thinking. Had to drill out all the holes to a larger size and very carefully bend the metal cast pins on the back of the letters to align with the holes. Then glue into place with silicon adhesive. What I thought would be a 20 minute job took two hours. Can't imagine what I would charge someone if I was a shop doing repair work for customers. I always think about how much my restoration would cost if a shop was doing it with a labor rate of over $100 hour.

Moved on to the installation of the left fuel tank that I left yesterday just sitting on the body.  Spent an hour hugging the fiberglass to get the bolts & washers lined up and tightened. My "assistant" was getting her beauty sleep so I was on my own. Then cut the rubber hose to fit (5"") and went thru the same process as yesterday to install the metal filler tube and rubber gasket seal on the body.

I had number of conversations with Dave at the body shop about what to do with the firewall as it is made of flimsy fiberboard with a light fiberglass covering. It was cracked on both sides and we talked about reglassing both sides. Then realized what it would cost to do that for something that would never be seen and would only make the car heavier. Some consideration was given to putting a light metal plate on the engine side and riveting to the firewall. I nixed that idea too. What I finally came up with was self adhesive heat shield that I used on the exhaust side of my Elan S1 engine bay to keep the footwell from getting too hot. It worked great and after 4 years of road use has stayed in place. Out came the roll of brown paper for making patterns. After measuring and then tracing the cut outs in place to make a template I cut out the heats shield material and carefully installed it on the engine side of the firewall.  The trick to doing this is too pull back the paper covering slowly from one side to the other while in place so you can adjust and remove any wrinkles along the way.  I should have done this before the fuel tanks were installed as it would have been easier.....  Overall it turned out the way I imagined and I will do the same inside the cockpit side of the firewall by reversing the pattern to cut out from the big sheet roll.

The original fiberglass battery tray was eaten up from battery acid spills and I had it restored by Dave to bring it back to original condition. It was still flimsy so I decided I would install an aluminum battery frame from odyssey to insure the battery stays in place and add some strength to the fiberglass tray. 

Got my replacement "tie mounts", media blasted them, threaded each bolt to insure they were all in good condition and then spray painted them for installation later.

I had a custom fiberglass airbox for the webers and have been thinking about where I am going to draw cool air from. Measured the inlet tube for flex hose and a large capacity airfilter. The OEM version isn't going to work as my TC is built for 150HP and I need all the cool unrestricted air I can get. I have read a number of posting on this subject and I haven't come to a firm conclusion yet. Someone built an wheel well airbox area for the filter to draw air, but I'm not sure I want to go that route. Any ideas are welcome.

Stopped late afternoon on the Europa as I needed to replace the thermostat on my Elan S1 (it was stuck in the open position) and replace the temperate sensor in the radiator as it was switching the fan on at higher temps then I wanted. That should only take an hour or two.......

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,May 27, 2019, 06:15:06 AM
Everything looks great! When you started talking about your letters, I thought they must have glassed in your holes! Thankfully, I was wrong.

Keep up the great work!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Monday,May 27, 2019, 07:30:32 AM
You spelled L-U-T-O-S wrong! (Just kidding.) Looks great Certified! Keep the momentum going!
Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,May 27, 2019, 11:49:41 AM
Surf, you had me freaked out for a millisecond. Then I had a laugh! 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Monday,May 27, 2019, 05:47:17 PM
Oh that was time stopping, until the Lol. Sometimes the easiest jobs take forever . Looks like your almost ready to drop that body on. 😀👍
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,May 27, 2019, 06:04:11 PM
Dakazman, I'm trying to think of all the things I need to do now while the body is still off before I lower it on the chassis. Need to put the rear window in while I can stand in the engine bay and attach the various support struts in the engine bay.  I'm going to try and get the shifter linkage adjusted as close as possible.  What else?  I'm sure I'll forget something and curse myself for moving to quickly to attach the body. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,May 27, 2019, 06:17:05 PM
Today was undercoating day. I was waiting for a low humidity day with a breeze to undercoat the body. It was time consuming (mainly because I used a small brush) and very messy. You need to wear a long sleeve shirt and rubber gloves. Draped the area below in plastic sheeting as the drops of undercoating splats everywhere. And plenty of fresh air (all the garage door were open).

Any holes in the underside of the body that are no longer being used (like the bracket holes in the left fender well for the brake servo's) get filled in with black silicon sealer before painting. I also masked the inside fender lips at 3/4" and painted the undercoat to that line.

Eastwood's rubberized Rust Encapsulator works very well on all surfaces except shiny paint (you need to sand it before the paint adheres).

It was all worth while as undercoating really finishes off the detail of the body work and restoration. I'm sure Colin would object as it adds weight....

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,May 28, 2019, 07:17:52 PM
Tuesday night, it must be electroplating night!

I had media blasted the door lock guides a couple of days ago and tonight I wiped them down with lacquer thinner and then dropped each piece into the electroplating bucket for a couple of minutes. Quick rinse in fresh water, dry off, polish with metal paste and then install.

Everything should be this easy.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Wednesday,May 29, 2019, 05:34:32 AM
come on Glen, the screws aren't lined up!!!!   :FUNNY:
looking better than when they came out of the factory!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,May 29, 2019, 06:37:52 AM
The latches came out great. What did you plate them with?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,May 29, 2019, 07:11:31 AM
Ted, your my quality control guy. Come on over to correct  :FUNNY:
BDA, I use Tin-Zinc electroplating as it duplicates most of what was done in the era.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 1970EuropaGuy on Wednesday,May 29, 2019, 08:53:56 AM
Looking so sweet! Every time you update your post I look at my Lotus and think about how much work I still have to do.

I'm glad you had the beer after undercoating the wheel wells. :beerchug: Time to celebrate.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,May 29, 2019, 05:38:48 PM
Thanks 1970EuropaGuy.  Your car looks pretty nice, not sure what you need to do to it.

Small step today.  Cleaned the rear window of residue and sealer then placed the new rubber gasket around the window with the etched name of the window manufacturer facing the right direction and the rubber seal with the locking strip on the outside. Now that I know how it fits I will remove the rubber seal and install on the fiberglass opening and trim it to prepare for trying to install the glass.

I just need someone to help me put it in. Someone who has a lot of patience as I understand its a bear to install.

 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Stuleslie on Wednesday,May 29, 2019, 11:24:58 PM
Strongly recommend you protect the paint work with card or something around the rear window, particularly at the curved ends. Whatever tools you use they will slip and take chunks out of the paintwork - believe me!  :headbanger:
Good luck
Stuart
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Wednesday,May 29, 2019, 11:56:08 PM
I use a flat bladed screwdriver, a putty knife and soap hand cleaner to lubricate the rubber.

Getting the sealing strip in, you need a special tool which flares the opening and lets the strip in. That requires twice the patience on the straight bits, and 10 times the patience on the corners.

Make sure the glass is exactly central to the opening, or 1 corner will go in easily, and the opposite corner won't fit. Put tape at the centre on the glass, offer the glass up to the opening without the rubber fitted, make sure the gap at both ends is even, and put matching tape on the roof so you know when the glass is central when the rubber is fitted. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,May 30, 2019, 03:16:43 AM
Thanks Stuleslie and 4129R, great recommendations. The idea to mark the center of the window is an excellent idea and I’ll put painters tape near the edges to prevent any mishaps to the freshly painted body. A friend of mine has the tool to install locking strips so I maybe ok.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,June 02, 2019, 07:19:07 PM
I had thought today would be a good day to install the rear window. Hot weather day, so the rubber molding will be nice and flexible. Got my plastic tools out for prying rubber moldings, found my go-pro camera suction cups for handling the glass easily, marked the center of the glass and the center of the opening as suggested by 4129R and put painters tape in various areas to prevent scratches and nicks while installing as suggested by Stuleslie. 

OK, placed the rubber molding outside for an hour in the hot sun to get it nice and flexible (on the rear trunk lid of one of my Elan's). Got the rear window opening all prepped. Installed the rubber molding and trimmed it to fit. Well, that was easy.

Got the glass in place, sprayed liberally with window cleaner (I have used this before for installing windshields, works great).  Started the prying of the glass into the molding and ........lets just say that after an hour of trying it became very obvious that this is a two person job. So......I put everything away and went on to a couple of other much simpler projects.

I needed to remove one of the welded bolts from each of the seat belt struts so I could attach the custom bracket I made for the rear deck lift.  Drilled out one of the bolt heads and then ground down the weld so it was flat to the surface of the metal plate.  Filed for finishing, cleaned off the area and then painted to match. Easy.

Then I prepped the throttle peddle for media blasting, got all the old paint off, prepped for painting with M600 and sprayed two coats of black paint.

Not bad for an afternoons work. Now who am I going to get to help me install the rear window ........

 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,June 03, 2019, 07:00:17 AM
Quote
Now who am I going to get to help me install the rear window ........

You want somebody who's done it before but it might be hard to find someone who would go through that again! Good luck!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Monday,June 03, 2019, 11:25:24 AM
 I was holding my breath just reading your story. Wish I lived closer to help. It’s always better to step back and safely rethink some jobs. Two sets s of hand in your case.
  Wow, your pedal assembly is completely different than my s2’s .
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Monday,June 03, 2019, 11:33:32 PM
Got the glass in place, sprayed liberally with window cleaner (I have used this before for installing windshields, works great).  Started the prying of the glass into the molding and ........lets just say that after an hour of trying it became very obvious that this is a two person job.

and

Now who am I going to get to help me install the rear window ........

I understand the pain, it took me far longer than it should have done to get my rear window back in.  But, as others on here have done, it is possible for a one-man operation even if it seems not to be.

A couple of things I did

1. I used nylon trim tools to spread the rubber and lever the glass into place. I used 2 or 3, a bit like you use tyre levers to change the inner tube on a bike wheel, so I'd have one "holding" whilst the next one was doing the levering.

2. I had the interior out of the car so could work alternately from inside and outside. This was a big help at either end where I'd have one hand inside with the other pushing from outside.  Hard to describe, easier to do !
 
3. Finally, I didn't buy my rubber surround from a Lotus specialist so this might not apply to yours, but I found that the dimensions were fractionally too small. Probably less than 1mm, but it made it very hard to insert the filling strip and very easy for the whole assembly to slide out of place.  I ended up by increasing the channel depth by a fraction using an old file and after that it flew in. (well, perhaps not that easy but it was more like the job you'd expect it to be)

It might be worth comparing the measurements of your old seal with the new. You'd expect some difference but if the depth of the channels are significantly different then you might be working harder than you should be. I've attached a diagram, it's not the right dimensions but you'll get what I'm on about from it.  From memory I think my glass was 4.5 or 5mm, the body lip I guessed at 2.5 and I think I ended up with a 5/3 channel width combination. After a couple of days struggling I measured the web on the new & old seals and that's why I increased the depth to match.

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,June 04, 2019, 07:17:13 AM
Thanks Brian. I don’t think the dimensioning of the trim is wrong, I just know better to struggle with something that really requires two people. And I didn’t want to chance breaking the glass.

Dave, appreciate your offer to help If you were closer. I’ll get one of my good Lotus buddies to come over that lives local. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,June 08, 2019, 04:25:34 PM
My Garage Tour was published in Absolute Lotus Magazine.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,June 08, 2019, 05:01:26 PM
Wow! Our own Certified is famous!!!  :pirate:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,June 08, 2019, 05:25:32 PM
I'm very lucky to have friends who are Lotus enthusiasts and always willing to lend a hand. My friend Ted offered to come over today to help me install the rear window of my Europa. He brought Tim as help and I also got one of my sons to assist. So......there are four of us trying to install this window. And guess what. After almost two hours no deal. We tried installing with the molding on the glass and the molding on the opening. I finally said to stop and wanted to think about this more as everyone was getting a little rammy and that is when stuff goes wrong.

I would love to know how the factory guys did the rear glass window install.  I mean exactly how they did it. Has anyone ever spoken with one of them?

When everyone left I set about more mundane tasks like installing the windshield wiper motor (after cleaning off all the old yellow overspray and polishing the chrome fittings), the VIN Plates, a couple of aluminum vent tubes, the heater box, and the bonnet lock receiver. 

The install of the windshield wiper motor had me wondering what was going on as the bracket for the motor did not line up with the holes in the fiberglass wall.  I checked all my photos and couldn't figure it out. Finally went back to my photos and super enlarged a few to see there was a black bracket that mounted to the wall that had the bracket of the motor mounted to it.  Just made a mental note.....take more photos.  You never have enough!



Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,June 08, 2019, 05:42:55 PM
Congratulations on your progress but it's too bad about your rear window. I can't help with any tips. I seem to remember over thirty five years ago, me and another guy got mine in but that's all... Actually, I remember it looked impossible until it finally went in.

Good luck!

edit: I remembered something about putting in a rear window!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Lou Drozdowski on Saturday,June 08, 2019, 07:28:47 PM
Glen,
 Your rear window install sounds very similar to my adventure some years back. I also had my brothers to help...Six hands were required. The string method did not work.

I left the locking strip off... gasket on the glass...one brother inside, with the four hands outside.
After many attempts, we decided to start over by cleaning the gasket to body channel (dry) no lube. This provided a better bite and lowered the chances of slipping. Start in the middle lower lip and work your way outwards...once you get a couple of inches in...do the same for the upper lip. Your helper inside must mirror your outside progress.  I used a plastic spreader similar to a tongue depressor, to push the edge of the gasket in.  Keep constant pressure on the section you get installed. The hard part of course were the outer rounded  bends.

I know how frustrating you feel... It took us close to two hours and lots of cuss words. Good luck.   
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,June 09, 2019, 02:59:06 AM
Lou, your recommendation of starting in the middle for the top and bottom is something we did not try. We were focused on trying to get one of the corners in.

I think next time I’ll heat up the rubber molding again (in the sun) to allow for more flexibility.

BDA, memories are good. Even distant ones........
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Sunday,June 09, 2019, 03:12:03 AM
Is the rubber new, or the original?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,June 09, 2019, 04:01:34 AM
New rubber.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Sunday,June 09, 2019, 04:56:15 AM
On a warm day, use hand cleaner jelly lube, a putty knife or thin bladed knife without a cutting edge, and a medium sized flat bladed screwdriver.

The corners might need two flat bladed screwdrivers.

Are you working from in the engine bay, or is the engine fitted?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Sunday,June 09, 2019, 11:29:30 PM
With several hands and minds I'd have expected it to be in now, but as it's proving so difficult then I'd measure up the assembly at a couple of points.

The body and glass dimensions are easy enough to get a height/width, the web of the seal is also easy enough. Do the maths and see if it will actually fit in the hole !  If it will, then you know it's possible and it's just a case of getting your technique right.

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Monday,June 10, 2019, 01:24:32 AM
If it came out of that hole, and the rubber is the same dimensions, in theory it should go back in the hole provided it is central in the hole.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Monday,June 10, 2019, 04:22:59 AM
Way out of my depth here, but in my experience stubborn rubber things get heat and lubrication, like soaking the rubber bit in nearly boiling water and lubing up with water and dish soap.
t
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,June 11, 2019, 12:40:47 AM
I’m in the Dolomites for a week, so the thoughts of installing the rear window are far gone for the moment.

4129R, agreed if it came out it must be able to go back in. When I was taking the window out I thought to myself, “this will be a tight fit”. Yes, I am standing in the engine bay without the chassis attached. I have the body on my lift so I can move it up and down to any height.

I reached out to a friend of mine who used to work at the Lotus factory during this era and he told me they used string and a lot of cussing to get these rear windows into the rubber molding. I didn’t get more detail than that.

As they say, the third time is a charm. Will report back when I return and tackle it once again.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,June 11, 2019, 10:54:48 AM
Glen, the string method should work. Leaving the string in the rubber track and securing as much of the channel by hand. Only using the string in the radius slowly while keeping pressure on glass.
I have also used liquid leak detection fluid and it’s always too hot here so the seals need not to be stretched too much. My triple glass rear window on my MGA was my most challenging.
Dave
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Tuesday,June 11, 2019, 12:40:08 PM
I have installed lots of windows into rubber moulding.  Easy peasy I thought as I regarded the rear window.  I wrapped the string around and... two hours later, was no closer to getting that damn window in.  So, I read the manual and followed its directions.  Window was in with a half hour.  YMMV.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,June 11, 2019, 10:40:21 PM
Reading the manual JB, what a novel thought! Your spot on as usual.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,June 12, 2019, 02:22:46 PM
Off topic as I’m in the Italian Alps. On a hike today and had absolutely no expectations to see ANYTHING automotive related. That would be an incorrect assumption.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,June 12, 2019, 02:38:00 PM
It's probably more appropriate to say that Lamborghini cars are tractor related (since they came first)!  :FUNNY:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Wednesday,June 12, 2019, 03:11:18 PM
It's probably more appropriate to say that Lamborghini cars are tractor related (since they came first)!  :FUNNY:

No bull !
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,June 12, 2019, 03:49:46 PM
No bull !

 :FUNNY:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Lou Drozdowski on Wednesday,June 12, 2019, 04:46:58 PM
It's probably more appropriate to say that Lamborghini cars are tractor related (since they came first)!  :FUNNY:

La "Carioca"...1947

With millions of lira laying around...Ferruccio Lamborghini decided to build automobiles in 1952.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,June 12, 2019, 10:24:33 PM
Yes exactly, the origination of the companies founding. Tractors. My son and I had a good conversation about the history of Lamborghini, but we were unaware they still made modern tractors. It was a serious piece of kit!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Thursday,June 13, 2019, 06:01:36 AM
Shame on you Glen!   forget the tractor you motorhead!   LOOK AT THE MAJESTY OF THOSE MOUNTAINS!!!!!      would love to be in your shoes touring God's country...   ;D
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,June 13, 2019, 11:06:34 PM
Ted, no worries we are hiking our feet off every day. This area of Italy is majestic and the weather has been incredible! Saw 2 Ferrari’s, 1 Chaterham, about a dozen modern Porsche’s and 3 MG A’s while driving to an amazing lake today. Just to keep in the spirit, I wore my Garage Tour T Shirt.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,June 14, 2019, 06:01:53 AM
That scenery is gorgeous! We certainly don't have to worry about you and Mrs. Certified having good time, do we? If you were to meet up with Lou's brother, you could add a beautiful Europa to your list!

Have a great time and come back safe!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Sunday,June 16, 2019, 03:40:51 PM
Let me know if you need help ? text  as I don't check e mail daily. :headbanger:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,June 17, 2019, 08:01:37 AM
Bruce, I will gladly accept your help! Will see if I can get Ted back too.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Lou Drozdowski on Monday,June 17, 2019, 12:25:41 PM
Glen...I am available Thursday's thru Saturdays, let me know. I figure about a 90 min drive to get to your place. ld
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,June 17, 2019, 01:38:27 PM
Lou, would great to have your help too. Starting to sound like a union job.......
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,June 17, 2019, 02:48:03 PM
I was goingto say that it was sounding like a party! ,I wish I could come!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,June 17, 2019, 05:08:08 PM
The more the merrier BDA. If you leave now you could join us. Free beer at my garage!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,June 17, 2019, 05:36:03 PM
Oh Man!!! Free beer!!! That's hard to pass up! You all have a big time!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,June 18, 2019, 08:00:43 AM
I'm jet lagged from my trip to Italy so I'm getting up way too early in the morning. Figured I would take care of a few small things on the Europa while I'm shaking the cobwebs out of my brain.....

Needless to say I'm not too smart when I'm tired as I put a drill in my hand to open up two holes in the fiberglass.  Thought better about it and hand turned the bit into the windshield wiper spray nozzle holes (the new nozzles are a bit larger than the OEM versions).  I was super careful not to crack the paint. All went well.

Then I cleaned the crash pad which is in amazing condition but dirty.  Used interior cleaner to get rid of the years of dirt and then used my favorite product for vinyl and rubber "back to black". All good again. I'm on a  roll.

Installed the two rubber pads on the painted clutch and brake pedals.  Yup, I like the easy stuff.

Started cleaning the exterior of the fan for the ventilation/heating system and wasn't very pleased with the results.  Then I looked inside and saw the round squirrel fan part was a bit rusty.......mmmmm.  I think I should disassemble and media blast it and then electroplate it. Or not. Figured I should think about that as I have an entire car to reassemble.  Well maybe.....

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Tuesday,June 18, 2019, 09:48:14 AM
It’s really great to see this all coming together! Congrats Glen!
Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Sandyman on Tuesday,June 18, 2019, 10:26:56 AM
 :wow. That's a really clean front windshield.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,June 18, 2019, 11:11:41 AM
Good job on everything, Certified!

I took my squirrel cage fan and wished I hadn't. On mine, the squirrel cage is attached to the motor shaft with a rusty crimped clamp. Not wanting to replace it with a hose clamp, I used a zip-tie. It seems to work so far but I don't think the attachment is as strong as the original. If I had it to do again, if I had a good replacement for the clamp, I would do it. Otherwise, I would just live with the rusty clamp or maybe paint it.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jlmullen2 on Tuesday,June 18, 2019, 11:12:49 AM
I'll be interested in how the heater fan disassembly works out as I just removed mine and it seems to have the same issues as yours. Mine has a bit more rust around all the bolts/nuts and I've already cracked the plastic housing slightly trying to remove one of them. In my brief survey of how to disassemble it to get to the fan bearing, it looks like the housing has some kind of rivets holding it together.


Good luck and take lots of photos.


Larry
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,June 18, 2019, 04:33:43 PM
Thanks for the continued motivation guys. You have me rethinking the disassembly of the fan. Will sleep on it.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,June 18, 2019, 06:29:32 PM
I should note that my squirrel cage is plastic. Rust on a fan might cause a different calculation. I would look carefully at how the fan is attached to the shaft and proceed accordingly.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 02:38:51 AM
Glen...I am available Thursday's thru Saturdays, let me know. I figure about a 90 min drive to get to your place. ld

Lou, sent you a PM about this Friday.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Lou Drozdowski on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 03:27:49 AM
Glen...I am available Thursday's thru Saturdays, let me know. I figure about a 90 min drive to get to your place. ld

Lou, sent you a PM about this Friday.

PM...Sent, French GP practice at 5am..a bite for breakfast, then the trip to your place. ld
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 04:38:26 AM
See you Friday. Have your best rear window installation skills with you  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 06:44:02 AM
Good job on everything, Certified!

I took my squirrel cage fan and wished I hadn't. On mine, the squirrel cage is attached to the motor shaft with a rusty crimped clamp. Not wanting to replace it with a hose clamp, I used a zip-tie. It seems to work so far but I don't think the attachment is as strong as the original. If I had it to do again, if I had a good replacement for the clamp, I would do it. Otherwise, I would just live with the rusty clamp or maybe paint it.

Certified the squirrel cage is removed by the nuts holding the motor mounting flange. The danger is the captive studs crack the casing if turned. The squirrel cage I have installed on two units are metal.see magnet.
If you decide to remove I suggest slotting the studs and use a screwdriver to keep it from turning and use a lot of it pb blaster. Liquid wrench. After you get it off the squirrel cage is held on by a nut but...after off needs the fingers slightly prayed open to relieve tension on shaft.
  It’s not difficult to get to but tedious.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 02:56:41 PM
Thanks Dave. Might reconsider taking the fan part now that I see you did it.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Wednesday,June 19, 2019, 04:28:02 PM
 This one is my spare that I picked up, it runs so that’s why it’s rebuilt. I had it disassembled. Trying to figure out a better to assemble without cracking the case.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,June 21, 2019, 03:37:59 PM
Thank goodness for my Lotus friends!  I'll cut to the chase.......the rear window is in! 

First of all many heartfelt thanks to Lou, Ted, Larry and Bruce. Believe it or not it took all five of us to get that damn window installed. And it took 2 1/2 hours before we were done. AND we now know the absolute right way to install this window with the least amount of effort. Everyone had a different take on what we should do and how to do it.  We tried them all. Then......we took the collective suggestions and combined them to come up with the right answer and it worked like a charm.

Dan stopped by after we finished to see what we had done and meet us all personally. He has a 73 TCS and is going to be starting his full restoration soon. Great to meet you Dan.

Here are the steps:

1) Install the rubber molding on the glass
2) Get some nylon string. Enough to wrap around the molding section for the fiberglass opening TWICE and leave long ends overlapped in the middle so you can pull on them. Grease the string with silicon or Vaseline jelly before wrapping the rubber molding.
3) Grease the fiberglass opening to allow for the rubber molding to slide over the edge.
4) Install the window from the inside of the car out. Place the window with rubber molding centered on the opening with two people applying pressure against the glass and molding. SLOWLY pull the edges of the string from the outside so the rubber molding slips over the fiberglass opening (on the outside of the body) while the two people on the inside apply pressure against the window and the molding (its helpful if you can stand in the engine bay when doing this). Have another person (or two) use plastic tools to ensure the molding is pulling over the fiberglass.
5) Work you way around the window pulling the string slowly. If something doesn't fit right, don't worry. You have a second chance as there are two loops of the string (brilliant).
6) Keep pressure downwards on the glass and out wards. Everything needs to be constant and adjust based on what you see and feel.
7) Once the molding is installed, grease the lock strip section of the molding.
8) Using the special lock strip tool is almost a must.  We had two so very lucky the installation of the lock strip went so well. Never the less, you still need to push various areas of the lock strip with plastic tools and fingers to ensure it is fully inserted. It is important to have someone inside the car to apply pressure where ever you are installing the lock strip so you don't PUSH THE WINDOW OUT.
9) Stand back and admire your success. Take a group photo and then take everyone to lunch!

Note, the photo of the string next to the hose clamp is to provide scale of the nylon string.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,June 21, 2019, 04:12:06 PM
It looks like you all had a big time! Congratulations to all of you! :beerchug: Glad you got that done. That may be the toughest part of a restoration!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,June 21, 2019, 04:56:20 PM
I decided to tackle the interior fan motor next after looking at Dave’s photos.  As you know I looked inside and found the squirrel cage rusty and dusty.  After looking closely at the way it was assembled I determined it was bolted together in way that disassembly should be fairly straight forward. It was.  The squirrel cage came off and into the media blaster, then painting. Will do two coats and let cure before reassembly.   I'll clean the plastic assembly but won't paint it.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,June 22, 2019, 03:02:28 PM
I was supposed to go to one of our Lotus Clubs Garage Tours (PALS) today but I'm still jet lagged and would have never made the drive home in the afternoon without a nap. So I decided to focus my energy on more restoration work until I needed an afternoon siesta.

Cleaned the heater fan housing and reassembled for installation later.

Cleaned and prepped the underside of the body for undercoating.  It was finally a clear sunny day and low humidity (It's been raining for weeks) so it was a good time to finish the final undercoating. Also installed the rear wheel arch closure plates,  riveting them in and taping the edge to the body and then undercoating.

I cut all the 1/4” closed cell foam padding for the chassis and glued it to the chassis replacing all the horse hair padding.

Drilled larger holes for the fuel lines (I'm using stainless steel braided lines and AN fittings) and installed new larger rubber grommets. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Saturday,June 22, 2019, 05:04:17 PM
Nice progress Certified,
A’m getting accustomed to my afternoon nap with feels like temps of 105f. 
The frame wrap is first class, but you didn’t say the thickness used. I purchased some but not enough to cover what you did.
  Looks like the mating will take place soon.😀👍👍👍😀😀
Then the wiring begins....😧 fun times.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,June 22, 2019, 07:36:40 PM
Dakazman, I used 1/4” closed cell foam. Covered exactly what I took off the chassis. Plus the back part was triple thickness where the interior center hump goes up.

I used the same foam on my Elan S1 when I restored it and it works great. No squeaks!

I’ve got a few more items to finalize before I lower the body on the chassis, but I’m close to that stage. Want to get the shift tube adjusted properly before the body goes on and a couple of small items.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Stuleslie on Saturday,June 22, 2019, 10:59:36 PM
Can I put my penny worth in, please check you have cut enough space in the foam around the two bolt holes in front of the gear lever. The bolt bobbins in the body should make contact with the chassis to allow the body to sit level. I forgot to do this and it took me ages to cut the felt, in my case, as I could not easily remove the body once I lowered it. Just say-in  :))
Stuart
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,June 23, 2019, 01:59:09 AM
Excellent comment Stuleslie! I will go back and determine how much to cut off. Now that you bring it up, I remember looking at the photo of the OEM install of the horse hair padding wondering why the opening was so large in that area. Now I know. Thanks!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,June 30, 2019, 03:46:39 AM
Larry came over yesterday to work with me on getting the shift linkage set up properly. I had read all kinds of stories about how finicky the shift tube adjustment can be and it proved to be correct. I knew that it would take two people to get it all adjusted correctly as someone needed to be at the rear of the transaxle confirming the shifting motion into all the gears and double checking full engagement.

If you have been following my posts you will know that I elected to use RD Enterprises "new" shift linkage u-joint for my 352 transaxle as the OEM version is no longer available.   Using this u-joint means the suggested setup in the shop manual is no longer valid.  The centerline distance from the pivot bush to helm joint is no longer 2 3/4 inches but almost 4 inches.  And the two locking nuts that come with the shift u-joint can't be used as you need to tighten the threaded part of the linkage all the way against the shift tube to achieve the right gear selection adjustment. We adjusted, assembled, disassembled and reassembled the entire shifter mechanism many times before coming to the correct adjustments on every part. The one last disassembly so we could clean all the threads for Loctite 35 to be added. 

All went well until we started trying the drill holes in the linkage for roll pins.  The Lovejoy shift linkage is made of hardened steel and using either cobalt or titanium drill bits didn't make a dent.   I really want to finalize this assembly before attaching the body to the chassis so I need to figure out how to drill a hole through this hardened steel without disassembling the entire shifter tube assembly. 

 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Sunday,June 30, 2019, 07:24:12 AM
Cert, are you saying you used all the thread on both sides of the rdent u-joint? That is actually good news to me since I was hoping there would be enough adjustment length to make up the difference in rear link length between the 352 and 365 rear links since I am planning to replace my 352 4-speed with a 365 5-speed and I can’t find the required longer rear link.

I always thought drilling the roll pin hole in place would be awkward at best. Did you end up disassembling one last time and drilling the marked locations on a drill press?
Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,June 30, 2019, 08:09:44 AM
I did use all the thread. Although you just mentioned something I was not aware of. There are two different size rear shift tubes? One is longer? By how much?

I’m hoping not to disassemble the shift tubes to put on the drill press as I have put loctite on the threads. I’m wondering if I can remove the entire tube with the joint intact....
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,July 03, 2019, 05:02:50 PM
The other day when Larry was over at my garage to help me we talked about how many hours it would take to complete the Europa at this stage and have it running.  Larry thought 150 hours more and I said 100 hours to get it on the road but probably another 25+ hours of adjustments and fine tuning. Tick tock, the clock is running.

Filled the transaxle with gear oil recommended for this particular 352 gear box (Swepco 210).

Installed the ventilation fan with foam surround to seal the opening, riveted the radiator screen in place, bolted the aluminum radiator in place, installed the bonnet prop rod, bolted in the spare tire mount and the windshield wiper fluid bag aluminum bracket. I kept referencing my disassembly photos for details (you never take enough photos for reference).

It was in the high 80's today and the humidity seemed the same. Hot and sweaty day in the garage. But good progress.

My hardened drill bits came this afternoon from Macmaster Carr.  Tomorrow will try and drill the hardened steel u-joint threaded bolts to insert roll pins. Hopefully it goes ok......
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Wednesday,July 03, 2019, 05:27:03 PM
What are you drilling? Hardened steel u-joint threaded bolts? Just curious.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,July 03, 2019, 05:36:01 PM
What are you drilling? Hardened steel u-joint threaded bolts? Just curious.

Post #888 “All went well until we started trying the drill holes in the linkage for roll pins.  The Lovejoy shift linkage is made of hardened steel and using either cobalt or titanium drill bits didn't make a dent.   I really want to finalize this assembly before attaching the body to the chassis so I need to figure out how to drill a hole through this hardened steel without disassembling the entire shifter tube assembly.”
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Wednesday,July 03, 2019, 08:13:42 PM
Use an acteqyne torch and anneal where you want to drill.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Wednesday,July 03, 2019, 08:33:53 PM
I did use all the thread. Although you just mentioned something I was not aware of. There are two different size rear shift tubes? One is longer? By how much?

Yes, the rear link for the 365 is longer than the one for the 352. (See parts list below.) I would love to know the length difference also. Anyone?

Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,July 04, 2019, 02:30:59 AM
Use an acteqyne torch and anneal where you want to drill.

Thanks JB. I’m assuming when I anneal the metal in place the loctite 35 is no longer effective?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,July 04, 2019, 02:37:50 AM
Surfguitar58, now that have shown the parts manual on the rear link I dimly remember there are several rear links. It all came back to me now. But I think it’s due to the diameter of the shift rod in the transaxle. The early 352 had a smaller diameter shift rod and the later transaxles had a larger diameter. Not sure about the 365. I don’t know if the length of the rear link is impacted, just the size of the bore in the ujoint for the diameter of the rod.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Thursday,July 04, 2019, 05:15:52 AM
Surfguitar58, now that have shown the parts manual on the rear link I dimly remember there are several rear links. It all came back to me now. But I think it’s due to the diameter of the shift rod in the transaxle. The early 352 had a smaller diameter shift rod and the later transaxles had a larger diameter. Not sure about the 365. I don’t know if the length of the rear link is impacted, just the size of the bore in the ujoint for the diameter of the rod.

I'm pretty sure the 365 link is longer. I have a 352 in the car and a 365 in a box. I will try to measure the the length difference from the bell flange to the cross pin on the shift rod in the near future and report back.

t
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Thursday,July 04, 2019, 06:03:12 AM
Yup, the heat required to anneal metal will release any nearby locking compound.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Thursday,July 04, 2019, 07:35:44 AM
Use an acteqyne torch and anneal where you want to drill.

Are the threaded studs in the rdent u-joints brazed into the Lovejoy part? Annealing happens at 500 to 1400 deg F, and brazing melts at 850 deg F.

t
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,July 04, 2019, 10:04:40 AM
Yes they are brazed on. I was just wondering about the temp range. I’m going to try and drill the hole with the hardened bits I have.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Thursday,July 04, 2019, 10:24:28 AM
It would be relatively easy to peck through the hardened stud with it clamped in a vice on a drill press or milling machine. Drilling the cross hole in situ with a hand drill sounds awkward at best. I can picture some kind of drill guide that would at least keep the bit straight and on target.

Sorry if I sound like I am nit picking your fine work Glen, but I am facing this job myself shortly and this part keeps me awake nights.

Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,July 04, 2019, 10:26:13 AM
I wonder if your u-joint isn't case hardened rather than all the way through. Maybe you can grind a small flat to give you a place to drill a hole. You're going to want to drill on a flat anyway.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,July 04, 2019, 03:18:07 PM
I wonder if your u-joint isn't case hardened rather than all the way through. Maybe you can grind a small flat to give you a place to drill a hole. You're going to want to drill on a flat anyway.

Had not thought of that BDA. Will be trying to drill in situ tomorrow. Will see what happens......
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,July 04, 2019, 03:33:22 PM
All it takes is putting in the hours each day.  Today (hot and humid again) was spent doing the following:

Installed the gear reduction starter. That was easy. Two bolts and lock washers. When I went to install the lower bell housing plate found out that only one threaded bolt hole lined up. Mmmmmm, don't remember that. Need to do some research.

Fabricated and installed the right side rear brake line.  I modified the location of these brake lines to be inside the chassis. Added tie downs to make sure they don't vibrate against the chassis.

Installed the OEM windshield wiper fluid bag and new hose.

The dash wiring and instrument install was next on my list.  It was too hot in the garage so I moved everything down to my wood working shop which is in my basement and very cool (as in temperature).

Set everything up and started on the new fiberglass instrument binnacle for the tach, speedo and function display lights (The OEM binnacle was warped from heat).  This required drilling of a number of holes to prep for install. Made a Loews run as I didn't have 6 x 1/2 stainless steel screws in stock. Need those to screw the binnacle to the back of the dash. 

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,July 05, 2019, 02:29:06 AM
“Sorry if I sound like I am nit picking your fine work Glen, but I am facing this job myself shortly and this part keeps me awake nights. Tom”

No problem Tom. I like everyone looking over my shoulder and providing input. Always good to have several ideas.

I am going to try and drill the roll pin hole with everything in Situ. If that doesn’t work I’ll have to take the entire shift tube out to drill on the drill press.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,July 05, 2019, 04:40:57 PM
Finished the dash today. Lots of little details to attend to. Drilling screw holes for all the switches, routering the opening for the emergency flasher switch that wasn't large enough (after checking the factory version), drilling a hole that wasn't large enough for a warning light. Drilling all the screw holes for the "glove box".   Always worried about damaging the veneer so I was super careful. Once I get the various dash attachment brackets bolted in the interior of the body, the dash is ready for install.



Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,July 05, 2019, 04:58:28 PM
Looking good!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,July 06, 2019, 05:24:11 PM
The advantage of time and input from others is you get to think about the how to solve problems versus rushing into it.

The issue of drilling hardened steel and installing roll pins in my shift tubes got me thinking over the last couple of days of the best way to accomplish the drilling and not change any of the dimensions of the length or adjustment of the tubes.  Last night it came to me just as I was falling asleep.  Just unbolt the shifter lever from the chassis, unbolt the u-joint pivot mid-point and take the roll pin out of the transaxle shift rod then remove the entire shifty tube mechanism in its entirety from the rear of the chassis. Carry it down to my basement shop and install in the drill press vise, clamp down and drill away.

Chris came over early this morning to help and it worked to perfection.  Using a drill press was a must and a 1/8 inch carbon steel bit made it all very easy.  No pilot holes, just drill the 1/8 hole for the roll pin size.

Re-install, bolt everything back the way it was and re-install the rear shift rod roll pin. Everything worked out fine.

Also installed the new hose for the windshield wiper sprayers while the dash was still out.

We took a break for lunch and then tackled lowering the body onto the chassis.  A bit of minor adjustments and line up of the body to the chassis, making sure the oil pressure line, speedo cable and handbrake cable were routed in the right holes while lowering the body. It all worked out fine and all the body to chassis holes lines up perfectly. I did remember to cut away some extra padding around the top of the chassis near the center tunnel.

Installed 6 sets of chassis bolts to make sure everything lined up. Went to install the seat belt receiver bolts and realized the aluminum was corroded so I stopped to wrap the mechanisms in plastic so I could media blast the metal and then paint it.  Will install tomorrow after the paint cures. Also need to electro plate the bolts as  the are special narrow head bolts and cant be easily replaced.

Had a beer and admired the work Chris and I did today. The Europa is finally back on its own wheels.  I'm thinking I'm on target to compete the car for LOG39.

 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Saturday,July 06, 2019, 06:50:21 PM
 :trophy:
  Glen,
You should be so proud. Master Craftsmanship at its best.
Dave
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,July 06, 2019, 06:55:01 PM
Body. Meet frame.

That's a big step! Congratulations!  :beerchug:

She's really coming together now!

 :lotus:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 1970EuropaGuy on Sunday,July 07, 2019, 09:03:34 AM
That dash looks fantastic. Great job as usual.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,July 08, 2019, 01:41:34 AM
Thanks guys. Appreciate the complements.  It’s all coming together, just wish I had another full week of time for reassembly instead of blocks of time. But I’m confident I’ll get it done and on the road by the end of the month.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,July 08, 2019, 05:33:14 AM
As usual everything takes longer than it should.  I have been thinking about the airbox for the weber's for over a year and how to supply cool air to the weber's.  The original design had the airfilter just above the exhaust silencer and mounted to the back of the luggage box. Not ideal, although I did read the airflow through that area was very good at speed. Additionally, the OEM airbox is very narrow and doesn't supply enough air for higher HP engines.

I had a large capacity airbox left over from my Elan S1 build (Don't ask me how many airboxes I bought until I finally found one that was both large capacity and would fit under the bonnet) that I measured and figured it would be a perfect fir for the engine bay of the Europa. I have a large capacity airaid filter and mount that I'm in the midst of trying to determine the best cool air location before I mount it.

But back to the main point. I went to install the fiberglass airbox back plate on the weber's and when I realized the trumpets would not fit in the paper gaskets that go between the weber's and the back plate. I had forgotten that all the gaskets I've bought over the last several years don't have the right size trumpet holes and they need to be custom cut.  OK, no problem, just a slight delay. Then I get everything installed and lined up, the gaskets, the airbox and am installing the metal holds for the trumpets on the threaded stud when I realize there isn't enough thread for a lock washer and the 10mm nut. That's not going to work I thought. You need lock washers as you don't want a nut coming loose and sucked down one of the weber throats only to get through a valve and flying around inside a piston wall.  Scary thought!

Off to my local part store who luckily had 6mm threaded studs just the right length!  Gotta praise the owner of this Ace Hardware store in Princeton, he has a nut and bolt isle that has almost everything I need to rebuild my cars.

Back to my shop, install all new threaded studs and bolt on the airbox with SS lock washers and nuts.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: seniorchristo on Monday,July 08, 2019, 02:18:33 PM
Now that's what I call an AIRBOX! ::)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,July 08, 2019, 06:30:56 PM
Those carbs need plenty of cool fresh air Chris! 

Speaking of cool, it was finally a nice evening in NJ once the front blew through.  Rain stopped, humidity went away and the temp dropped. Good night for painting parts and electroplating while listening to music and having a beer. I've got a killer sound system in my garage so I can rock out while working on Lotus related stuff. Makes the hours go by a lot easier.

I seem to always be plating parts.  But its all part of the rebuild process, especially if you want to the car to last another 40+ years  :beerchug:

The bolts for the seat belt receivers are actually body to chassis bolts.  They were a bit corroded so I media blasted them which then required plating. The interior light door switches that I plated are a very interesting design. It's actually a Phillips head bolt that is drilled out with a spring loaded contact assembly. I wonder if these where made at the factory in Hethel? 


Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Monday,July 08, 2019, 07:47:27 PM
The interior light door switches that I plated are a very interesting design. It's actually a Phillips head bolt that is drilled out with a spring loaded contact assembly. I wonder if these where made at the factory in Hethel?

I’d have thought those little ticks between the cross indicate it’s a Pozidrive screw, no?
Lotus used Pozidrive’s on the door striker on the body too IIRC.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 03:12:52 AM
You would be correct GavinT. Pozidrive. I’m still wondering who made these......
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 03:25:32 AM
Wow Glen, you sure have that process down pat. It’s a labor of love that I will have to look into. Your momentum is outstanding and wish you had more blocks of time. The Weber’s look great sitting there and I can’t wait o see and hear that baby purring.
 Love the pictures   :beerchug:
Dave
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 04:13:14 AM
Dave, Here is a short video clip of my Europa TC on the Dyno at Quicksilver Racing (they built the engine). I always have my rebuilt engines broken in on the Dyno and then tested for HP and torque. You’ll have to wait a few more weeks to hear the TC on the road.

https://youtu.be/W3s24iffA2w

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 04:58:39 AM
The interior light door switches that I plated are a very interesting design. It's actually a Phillips head bolt that is drilled out with a spring loaded contact assembly. I wonder if these where made at the factory in Hethel?

Can anyone explain why there are two of those switches in the drivers door on Federal Europas?

Getting those switches out in 1 piece is difficult. my success rate is about 60%. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 05:36:11 AM


Can anyone explain why there are two of those switches in the drivers door on Federal

The s2 wiring print-shows one is the courtesy light. The other is the buzzer to the ign switch .
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: gideon on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 06:48:25 AM
But why two switches?  Both functions could be controlled with one switch, that would have been cheaper and easier, no? 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 07:46:29 AM
But why two switches?  Both functions could be controlled with one switch, that would have been cheaper and easier, no? 


One is coming from an unswitch position on the main fuse box and the other the switched position.
So if only one you may have a dead battery. The other a buzzer going off a lot. Two different senerios.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 08:16:39 AM
So it is alright to drive off with the passenger door open, but not with the driver's door open?

Surely the driver, who should be in control of the car, should know that the driver's door is not shut?

Whose idea was this?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Bainford on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 08:40:41 AM


Whose idea was this?
Government. Nuff said.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 08:57:37 AM
Lol :FUNNY:
Government.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 09:17:59 AM
Most cars are stolen because someone took advantage of the fact that the keys were left in the ignition.  Insurance companies lobbied the government to add the key warning buzzer.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 09:27:09 AM
Most cars are stolen because someone took advantage of the fact that the keys were left in the ignition.  Insurance companies lobbied the government to add the key warning buzzer.

Does the key in ignition buzzer have anything to do with the second driver's door switch?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 11:35:13 AM


Does the key in ignition buzzer have anything to do with the second driver's door switch?
[/quote]

 Yes , It prevents you from leaving your keys in your he car and goes off when you open th door to get out .
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 12:06:05 PM


Does the key in ignition buzzer have anything to do with the second driver's door switch?

 Yes , It prevents you from leaving your keys in your he car and goes off when you open th door to get out .
Dakazman
[/quote]
As my front door key is on the same ring as the car key of whatever car I am driving, I cannot get into my house unless I take the key out of the car. Very simple, very effective.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 01:34:17 PM
All this about a door switch? How about my video of my beautiful TC engine on the Dyno........
 :FUNNY:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 02:28:47 PM
I liked it, Certified! I forgot how much hp and torque it made...
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 03:12:32 PM
All this about a door switch? How about my video of my beautiful TC engine on the Dyno........
 :FUNNY:

Based on my recent internet experience, stupidity (redundant government mandated door switches and annoying buzzers) will get more airplay than beauty (your mill on a dyno purring nicely). Such is the world we live in today.
Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 05:40:53 PM
I liked it, Certified! I forgot how much hp and torque it made...

147HP & 124ft lbs torque at the crank.  Street tune with 93 octane gas.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 05:44:49 PM
That should work! Can't wait for it to get on the street!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 05:54:31 PM
Got to spend most of the day in the garage today. But the focus was on my two Lotus Elan's as they have been waiting for the lift. Got all the maintenance done on both of them and moved the Europa back to the lift.

Today was the first day the Europa was outside with the chassis and body mated. Slowly acclimating to being back outdoors so when I drive with my foot in it, it wont be such a surprise.........

Painted a few parts black and installed the swirl pot.  Not a big day for getting major things done, but every day something gets done. 

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 06:01:56 PM
Another step in your journey...
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: lotusfanatic on Tuesday,July 09, 2019, 10:11:29 PM
Hi Certified!

What a beautiful car! :lotus:

Mark
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Wednesday,July 10, 2019, 04:39:49 AM
I liked it, Certified! I forgot how much hp and torque it made...

147HP & 124ft lbs torque at the crank.  Street tune with 93 octane gas.

Remind me what you did to get to 147 HP. (I'm sure it is somewhere in the 67 pages of this thread, but I can't put my finger on it.) You have the header. Webbers. Is that a QED or other aftermarket ported head? Larger bore? Hotter cams?

Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,July 10, 2019, 05:04:04 AM
Thanks for the complements! It’s slowly getting to the stage that has hope for completion.

Surf, the head is an original Lotus TC aluminum head with larger valves. Custom pistons, Cams, and slightly larger bore. I’m more interested in a good torque range than higher HP as it’s a street car. And I don’t wind these engines out much past 5000 RPM so the stock crank is fine.

This is the second TC engine Quicksilver Racing built for me. The first one (which is in my Elan S1) is the same build but with a Dave Bean cartridge water pump (I didn’t install one in this engine as you can’t get the pump out anyway with the firewall so close). Trust me, you really don’t need more than 150HP in these cars. Plus I want a “bullet proof” engine. The higher HP engines are a bit more temperamental and require a lot more money to build.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Wednesday,July 10, 2019, 06:03:48 AM
You would be correct GavinT. Pozidrive. I’m still wondering who made these......

Curious isn’t it.
As far as I know, only the door striker plates and those courtesy light switches are Pozidriv on the whole car while there’s plenty of Phillips stuff everywhere else.

I did a little Googling and found that Pozidriv (with no "e" being the correct spelling, apparently) was patented by GKN in 1962.
We know that Colin had a good relationship with GKN, so perhaps that explains these oddities and also his relatively early adoption of the standard.

Probably also explains why my PO mangled my door striker plate screws.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,July 10, 2019, 05:35:45 PM
This car is my fourth Lotus restoration (I'm not counting my Exige race cars or the Lotus kart I built or the electric scale model Lotus Formula one cars) and one thing I have learned along the way is to make progress every day, no matter how small.  It may mean sorting through parts and organizing or painting something small and letting it dry for a few days or creating a parts list of things to order or for the fanatic like me, electroplating parts while having a beer or two. No matter what, every hour gets you closer to finishing.....even if it takes years.

So this evening I did a few small things.

Cut a piece of fiberglass heat shield to attach to the battery metal heat shield and installed.  Remember, when handling this stuff to wear gloves!  Otherwise you end up with thousands of tiny pieces of fiberglass in your hands that stays in your skin months before the itching goes away.

Riveted the Lotus emissions plate on the side of the engine bay.

Attached the metal brackets that I painted black the other day to the coil and electric fuel pump while pondering exactly where I will locate both. I always like thinking about these things before I start drilling and bolting.

Ordered my Odyssesy PC925 battery and Taylor coil to distributor 8mm blue wire from summit racing.

That's enough for tonight. Tomorrow is another day.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Wednesday,July 10, 2019, 06:10:40 PM
That’s a great way of thinking. Any progress is good. Sometimes it cancels out the 1 step forward, 2 steps back days. Reading and prep is another nightly ritual. Sometimes We have to put down everything and talk nonsense... 🤬🥴
  What is that bracket for in front of the swirl tank?  Is the harness next ?
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,July 10, 2019, 07:00:14 PM
Dave, the aluminum bracket is for holding the Odyssesy battery in place. Next on my list is to finish the support bracket installation for the seat belts. Then the stainless steel fuel lines to the fuel tanks, filter, electric fuel pump and Weber’s.

I’m saving the installation of the dash and wiring harness for the weekend when I have enough hours to complete it.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,July 11, 2019, 09:00:40 PM
I guessed wrong.

While the body was off the chassis I was trying to decide if I should bolt in the seat belt reels and the attached various support tubes/structure that attaches to the body and the rear shocks. I decided that it might be difficult to get everything aligned while the body was off the chassis so I would wait until the chassis was bolted on.

I just spent 4 hours getting most everything assembled, adjusted and tightened. And let me tell you, I should have installed it all before I lowered the body onto the chassis.  The solution would have been to put everything in place and finger tighten all the nuts.  The support tube that bolts to the chassis could have been in place and moved around while lowering the body. So lesson learned for someone else.......

Make sure you use the right bolts for the seat belt reel.  The top bolt has a narrow head in order for the seat belt to be able to reel in completely.  This top bolt also has two spacers that must be installed in the proper order and orientation on the backside of the firewall and inside the bracket frame.

Also installed the clutch cable and the throttle cable.  That was much easier!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Friday,July 12, 2019, 04:57:53 AM
Wow, it's all coming together. Looks terrific Glen. Looking forward to seeing the finished product at LOG.  :trophy:
Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,July 12, 2019, 05:00:11 AM
Don't forget the second nut on the clutch cable. I suppose you could use a lock nut instead but I think originally it had two nuts you jam together.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,July 12, 2019, 07:02:59 PM
Thanks Surf, looking forward to meeting you at LOG and you have good eyes BDA.  Wasn't going to forget the lock nut on the clutch cable but I put one on just to make sure I didn't forget.

If all my assemblies that are supposed to take 45 minutes take 5 hours like today (and yesterday) it will take me another 300 hours to finish this restoration!

I thought the installation of the handbrake multiplier would be fairly easy and even then I had 45 minutes to finish in my mind. Nope. What a nightmare to get it installed.  I innocently put neverseeze on the bolt to prep for installation. First I had the handbrake cable too tight so I could barely reach the threaded hole with the bolt in the multiplier. And the jam nuts holding the cable rod at a certain length was very tight so getting two open end wrenches inside the chassis opening was next to impossible. And then the bottom washers kept falling out of the bolt multiplier. AND THEN I lost the cable inside the chassis and had to get my wife out in the garage (her favorite thing to do) to help snake it back where I could hook it and bring it back up from the bottom of the chassis. There is more, but I wont bore you.

5 freakin hours!   :deadhorse:

Never the less I didn't stop and got the brake, clutch and gas pedals installed. Also installed the left side dash bracket where two switches are installed through the body.

Reinstalled the master cylinder for the brakes. And started adjusting the springs on the front shocks as the car sits too high when I realized I probably need shorter springs. I have AVO coilovers in the front. Anyone know what size spring I need ?

Definitely a two beer day  :beerchug:


Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,July 12, 2019, 08:25:22 PM
In spite of the seemingly ridiculously long time to do seemingly simple tasks, the car is coming together. Hopefully there will be fewer of those incidents but I think this is really where things start to happen quicker. I'm sure I don't have to remind you of your rule to make progress everyday.

Keep up the good work! You'll be terrorizing the neighborhood before you know it!

 :lotus:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,July 14, 2019, 04:39:10 AM
Beautiful day in NJ on Saturday. Clear skies, nice breeze and sunny. Low humidity. Took a couple of drives in my Elan S1 to get parts during the day, was hard to come back to the garage to work. But I have a project to complete so I stayed focused!

Riveted the support bar onto the backside of the front bonnet.  That was easy. Hopefully the rest of the day goes like that.

Now that all the body to chassis bolts are all in place I am comfortable putting the Europa back on the lift to work underneath it.

Installed the custom exhaust system I bought from the UK last year (thanks Alex!). It's been in a box in the garage and I dug it out from my storage place and laid out the parts on the floor. As I was studying them closely (why I didn't do that when the package arrived a year ago I'll never know) I realized two things.  The gasket they supplied for the flange was wrong and there was no mounting bracket on the silencer to the transaxle.  Mmmmmm, the bracket missing was a big deal. Need to figure that out.  I'm cursing myself for throwing away the old silencer as I could have made a pattern from the bracket on it and made a new one. Went to Pep Boys with the short end of the exhaust pipe and flange and convinced the nice young lady at the parts counter to hunt through all her exhaust gaskets in the back parts bins to find the right size. She came back to me 10 minutes later with an assortment and found exactly what I needed. The installation went well, just a small alignment issue with the collector pipe that was easily corrected. Everything got installed and all I need now is a bracket to hold the silencer in place.

As suggested by a couple of you, I made a small modification to the lower bell housing plate so it could be held in place with more than one bolt. Some cutting, grinding, painting and then final install. All good.

I'm installing a custom stainless steel braided fuel lines from the fuel tanks to the electric fuel pump and then to the Weber's. Measure everything and drilled two more larger holes for the larger than OEM fuel lines and then installed rubber grommets to prevent metal to metal contact.  Installed all the AN-6 fittings, tighten everything up and added two additional support brackets to prevent unwanted movement in the fuel lines. You should be aware that the new aluminum fuel tanks come with AN-4 fittings so you will need adapters if you want to use larger fuel line for AN-6 fittings. I still haven't decided on the location for the fuel pump so I left lots of braided line to cut later. Need to put the rear luggage box in and see where I can install various pieces of equipment (Coil, Fuel pump, breather tube and oil collection tank) that don't interfere with the box.

While I was under the car checked all cables for possible interference and either zip tied them or used proper mounting brackets.  The emergency brake cables have specific designed brackets that clamp to the chassis to keep them from hanging below the chassis.  I have new ones from RD Enterprises and installed them.



Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Sunday,July 14, 2019, 05:19:37 AM
Aughhh, drives in NJ, ...
Yep that’s definitely not the right gasket, even without glasses I can see it.
 The views you provide with that lift are amazing as is the subject.

  Is there an extension piece on that tailpipe, I wouldn’t want to see that paint get sooted up. It could be the angle of the picture that is close fit.

   Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,July 14, 2019, 05:45:58 AM
Pretty exhaust! Too bad the muffler didn't have a bracket welded on. That shouldn't be that difficult to to rectify. It's a bummer about the fittings in your tank. I hope that doesn't give you problems down the road!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Stuleslie on Sunday,July 14, 2019, 11:10:23 AM
Have you thought about covering the large opening below the fuel tanks? I covered them up with 2mm aluminium sheet. I know some might think that there would be less air flow into the engine bay but I did not want to get the bottom of the tanks and the pipe work dirty. I also mounted the fuel pump on the wall down by the right tank. Anyway I have been running the car for the past two summers with no overheating issues.
Stuart
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 2766R on Monday,July 15, 2019, 05:01:52 AM
Might I suggest mounting the back of the silencer (muffler) as I have done.  No welding involved, just a bracket picking up on the transmission isolation mount hardware and a generic exhaust pipe clamp.  I realise you have a 352 transmission just as my Europa was originally equipped but now updated with a 365.  It should make little or no difference.  Just a thought.

Gerry       
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: seniorchristo on Tuesday,July 16, 2019, 07:53:37 PM
Glen
What a fabulous restoration! :beerchug: Why did you feel the need to increase the size of the fuel lines?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,July 17, 2019, 03:28:51 AM
My day job has kept me away from my restoration project. But true to form I still had a little time to order various parts I needed as I move through the final steps of getting my Europa back on the road.

To answer a few questions/comments:

Dakazman, the tail pipe extension slides in and out from the silencer. I clamped it all the way in so I don’t hit it with my leg every time I walk by the back of the car while I’m working on it. Will adjust it out further when I’m close to done.

BDA & Senior Christo, I had lots of -6AN fittings and SS hose stocked in my garage (left over from racing days) so I’m trying to use up what I have. I have the same setup on my Elan S1, the fuel tank has a smaller -4AN fitting and I used an adapter to enlarge to -6AN. With an electric fuel pump there aren’t any issues supplying fuel to the weber’s.

Stuleslie, I’m using one of the openings for the fuel tanks to house my large air filter supplying cool air to the larger airbox. I’m even considering adding a small low profile air duct under the car to force air into that area. So blocking it off is not an option for me.

2766R, thanks for the photo of your exhaust mounting point. That is a good idea!

I’ve got time set aside today for more work and parts arriving. Hope to make progress even though it’s going to be close to 100 degrees today.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Wednesday,July 17, 2019, 05:23:13 AM
Certified, Lol
Hope to make progress even though it’s going to be close to 100 degrees today.

  Just be sure to drink at least 4 large glasses of water , be cognizant of not sweating. Keep the electrolytes up with a sport drink. I had syncope once from it, it hits you like a brick wall.

  Aughh, sore shins , good move !
 Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,July 17, 2019, 08:14:59 AM
No worries Dave. I have a refrigerator in the garage that besides beer also holds my during the day drinks to keep me well hydrated!

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,July 17, 2019, 08:17:50 AM
Might I suggest mounting the back of the silencer (muffler) as I have done.  No welding involved, just a bracket picking up on the transmission isolation mount hardware and a generic exhaust pipe clamp.  I realise you have a 352 transmission just as my Europa was originally equipped but now updated with a 365.  It should make little or no difference.  Just a thought.

Gerry     

Gerry, I have looked everywhere for that bracket (pep boys, autozone, Napa, two custom exhaust shops in my area) and haven’t found anything even close. Where did you get the bracket? I may have to custom make one, but if they are readily accessible that would be preferred.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 2766R on Wednesday,July 17, 2019, 08:41:45 AM
Sorry, should have mentioned that the bracket was fabricated.   Just some sheet metal bent and drilled to suit. Suggest starting with a cardboard pattern.  I wish I had documented to pass along.   Your restoration and documentation is a lesson to the rest of us!

Gerry
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,July 17, 2019, 11:04:41 AM
I second Gerry's comment. Here's a picture of a bracket I made using my usual chisel and file method. There might have been an easier way to do it but I was copying one made for me. A cardboard pattern makes it a lot easier. I don't have any fancy tools like brakes or shears. I probably cut it with a combination of hacksaws, snips, and dremel cutoff wheel. Since I don't have a sheet metal brake, I just used my vice clamping the piece between two pieces of wood and used another piece of wood and hammer to make the bend. It's made of .060" stainless. I also made a few shims for final adjustments.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Wednesday,July 17, 2019, 07:10:02 PM
That’s a good design, however it may be to rigid. A piece of tire thread between the clamp and bracket or a joint in the mounting to the gearbox may help if it starts to crack.  I don’t know how much The engine and gearbox twist and bends so it’s just my opinion. Trust me I almost deleted this opinion piece but failure , down the road , may damage a lot more. keep an eye on it
  2766R mount is under and beefier but where can it flex ?
Dakazman

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Wednesday,July 17, 2019, 07:19:32 PM
The exhaust/engine/transmission are one unit.  Mounting it solid to the transmission reduces vibrations.  Rubber mounting would allow it to vibrate.

Now, if you were mounting it to the chassis, the reverse would be true.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,July 17, 2019, 07:30:26 PM
Thanks D'man but keep in mind that the exhaust, tranny and engine are a single unit with regard to movement and vibration. It's really not that much different from the stock situation http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/tcparts/s/tcsa.pdf (http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/tcparts/s/tcsa.pdf). I have a similar mount at the front of the muffler.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Wednesday,July 17, 2019, 07:57:33 PM
Oops, BDA your design was to the gearbox and it is isolated from the frame. 2144r s looks like it comes from the frame to the isolated engine/gearbox. That’s the one that may crack or cause vibration.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,July 18, 2019, 02:01:01 AM
I slept on this overnight and came to the same conclusion, the stabilizing bracket for the silencer (muffler) needs to be attached to the transaxle so the entire exhaust system, engine and transaxle are one unit that is then mounted with rubber mounted brackets to the chassis. Just the way Lotus originally designed it and some of you have stated.

So BDA’s designed bracket is preferred, 2766R’s designed would need a rubber isolator.

Appreciate all the thoughts and feedback. Really helps. One more unexpected custom job on a very long list.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Thursday,July 18, 2019, 05:39:44 AM
Here's a picture of a bracket I made . . . It's made of .060" stainless.

Actually, I reckon that's a very good design. Colin would give it the nod.
Well done that man.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 2766R on Thursday,July 18, 2019, 07:40:35 AM
I slept on this overnight and came to the same conclusion, the stabilizing bracket for the silencer (muffler) needs to be attached to the transaxle so the entire exhaust system, engine and transaxle are one unit that is then mounted with rubber mounted brackets to the chassis. Just the way Lotus originally designed it and some of you have stated.

So BDA’s designed bracket is preferred, 2766R’s designed would need a rubber isolator.

Appreciate all the thoughts and feedback. Really helps. One more unexpected custom job on a very long list.

Just to clarify, my bracket picks up on the (2) bolts securing the isolator to the transmission cross bracket and so is in unit with the transmission/engine.  It is in fact isolated from the chassis.   I’ll post a better photo when I get a chance.  The header/silencer is a Dave Bean system originally installed in the early ‘80s.  I believe the rear of my silencer is further aft than BDA’s.  Truth be told, BDA’s bracket is more elegant.

Gerry
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,July 18, 2019, 09:18:26 AM
Thanks for the kind words about my muffler mount. I can't take credit for the design, the guy who helped me (A LOT) with the fabrication on my car did the original one. I just copied the design so credit goes to him (Thank you, Norm!)!

I should say that I forgot to add files to my list of tools and a uni-bit. It worked better than the carbide drill bits I have.

A funny thing, Gerry. I got my muffler from Dave Bean too. Its position is probably due to the exhaust from the headers to the front of the muffler. I tried to get a stainless steel one of the same size but I couldn't find one.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Lou Drozdowski on Thursday,July 18, 2019, 09:59:54 AM
The Rube Goldberg method...
 
No muffler, just a flexible pipe (Pep Boys) into a rear resonator.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,July 18, 2019, 10:12:14 AM
Lou, is that as loud as I suspect?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,July 19, 2019, 06:47:35 AM
Thanks again for everyone's input on the exhaust bracket.  I made a template for my installation and brought it to my metal fabricator this morning. The local sheet metal shop can't get to it for weeks and I don't have a band saw or a sheet metal brake to make it myself (although my compliments to the guys who made this bracket themselves).  I have a mountain of work to do on the car so I am having it done by someone else while I work on other parts of the car.

I have included a copy of the pattern in case anyone wants to copy.  Will drill the holes once I get the bracket back. I am using the OEM threaded bolt bracket location on the transaxle to attach to the trans.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,July 19, 2019, 07:24:35 AM
Finishing up the electric fuel pump location and installation.  Also installed the rear luggage tray to make sure everything I'm installing doesn't interfere with the location of this "box". Made blue tape markings to remind me of the depth into the engine bay and I still have an oil catch can and ignition coil to install on the side wall of the engine bay.

For the electric fuel pump, I cut a piece of rubber to wrap the fuel pump before attaching to the mounting bracket and also cut a 1/4" piece of rubber to install between the mounting bracket and the chassis location so the vibration of the pump does have any harmonic vibration through the car.

I measured and designed the air filter installation inside the body forward of the right fuel tank location. Will install a NACA Duct at the open bottom pan area to force air into this location. If I read everything correctly about the engine bay of a TC Europa, there should be enough negative pressure in this area to allow for air to easily flow upward and out the vents in the rear engine deck lid. This area looks to be the coolest (as in air temperature) location of any other area of the engine bay as it is before the exhaust system and away from the general engine bay heat load.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Friday,July 19, 2019, 08:37:59 AM
Good idea using the rubber vibration damper. Wish I had done that on mine. It's rather loud just before engaging the starter, but at least I know it's working. I can't hear it with the engine running.

Are you going to install a rollover/impact cut-off switch? I had no plans to install one but our more knowledgeable forum members shamed me into it, and now I'm glad I have it.

My only criticism would be that if your fuel line/filter/pump connection leaks it will pool in the fiberglass shell. I but my pump in the "C" section of the metal frame just below where you mounted yours. That way if it leaks it will drip off the metal to the ground.

Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,July 19, 2019, 08:53:35 AM
I'm interested in how your cold air mod goes! I'm considering doing that too.

I mounted my fuel pump where surf mounted his, but not for his reason, which is a good one,  but to mount the pump as low as I could. One filter is enough but I put a filter after each tank. Just a thought...

A funny story about electric fuel pump noise: back when I was in college, a buddy had an Alfa Spider, which is fuel injected. His fuel pump went out and because he couldn't afford an Alfa pump, he got the highest pressure fuel pump he could find, I think it was a Moro but it only generated about half the pressure that the Alfa pump did. It worked fine for him but it was a lot louder than the Alfa pump. In fact you could still hear it up to about 3000 rpm!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Friday,July 19, 2019, 09:59:43 AM
Facet Fuel Pump Mounting Bracket Bobbins. (plenty of generic ones around, also)

https://www.hxfzzxshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=532563
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,July 19, 2019, 11:22:01 AM
No roll over/impact switch. Just an off switch in the cockpit (I know, I’m going to get lots of comments on this. Just remember, this is an old car with almost no safety features what so ever. If you get hit those two fuel tanks one of the biggest things you need to worry about. Shutting off the fuel pump may be the least of your worries. Most people who realize their car is on fire don’t realize it’s been burning for a while. In a fiberglass car you only have seconds to get out. An impact switch won’t save you).

The location of the electric fuel pump was a major consideration. I spent a week thinking about it. My collective thoughts were: 1) put all the fuel related equipment on one side of the car (carbs, fuel line, fuel pump and one fuel tank. Nothing I can do about the second tank. 2) mount the pump to the chassis, not fiberglass. 3) install as low as possible but away from as much weather and road related material as possible 4) locate in a place where I could regularly maintain/observe it.

My consideration and rational for the air filter location is strictly arm chair engineering. No idea if I’m on the right track, but I think so.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Pfreen on Friday,July 19, 2019, 12:23:32 PM
Certified.  Where did you buy the fuel pump?  I bought a pump that looked like yours on Ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-UNIVERSAL-ELECTRIC-FUEL-PUMP-GAS-DIESEL-MARINE-CARBURETED-E8016S/281596075987?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649. 

Although cheap $11.88, it leaked and I through it away.  So, just be sure to check for leaks for a while after you get on the road.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,July 19, 2019, 12:36:36 PM
Bought my fuel pump from RD. This is the third one I have bought from them. Never had any problems.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Friday,July 19, 2019, 12:37:39 PM
I hear you... but, putting a roll over switch is so simple and easy it doesn't make sense not to.  Regardless, to each their own.  Just warn me if I ever am about to be a passenger in your car ;-)

PS: Fuel tanks leak down and away while fuel pumps spray.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,July 19, 2019, 07:39:43 PM
Small progress today.  The heat and humidity is draining. Never the less, gotta keep moving forward. I was able to get my helper extraordinaire out in the garage to hold a socket wrench while I was under the car tightening a bolt that was difficult to reach.  She always thinks everything is this easy and why is it taking me so long........ :confused:

Finally got the Odyssesy battery bracket bolted in (thanks to my helper) and the Odyssesy battery installed.  The Morosso oil catch can arrived so I installed that and made all the connections on the SS hose.  I replaced a number of OEM bolts that had seen their day with grade 8 lock nuts, washers and bolts.  Boring stuff that I photographed but am not bothering to show the forum.

I've got a PALS Lotus Garage Tour event to go to tomorrow (taking one of my Elan's) and then a car show later in Doylestown (if I can survive the heat all day).  Sunday morning I'm picking up my left door and front splitter from Dave's shop.  Will hopefully get a couple of hours in on Sunday afternoon as I would like to get the airfilter installation done.

Tick tock.  Three weeks left to complete my rebuild and then road test for a week before driving to LOG.  Getting close and a lot to do.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Friday,July 19, 2019, 07:42:34 PM
In a fiberglass car you only have seconds to get out. An impact switch won’t save you).

Back in the 70’s my younger brother bought an MGA. It was a near finished restoration and came in grey primer. He and my mate spent two days trying to get the engine running. The car also came with a second set of carbs & manifold, so they changed them over to see if it made a difference.

The car fired up and they decided to take it around the block for a test.
About a mile from home, he lost control and the car ended up on it’s side, jammed behind a power pole in a cutting.

My brother couldn’t move. My mate heard the fuel pump ticking and figured the best thing to do was to drag my brother from the car before something happened.

It turned out that my brother had broken his spine.
After three months in the spinal unit, he walked . . flat footed and on crutches, but he walked.
He still walks flat footed but otherwise, normally (no crutches). He needs to take daily medication for things like UTI’s but he’s also fathered five kids that the doctors said he’d never be able to.

So, yeah . . it’s common to hear YMMV and that’s still true. This is just one data point.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,July 19, 2019, 08:11:33 PM
We don't normally appreciate the possibility of danger in what are normally mundane situations. Unfortunately, your brother was bitten by an unlikely circumstance. Thankfully he was able to recover far beyond his doctors's expectations.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Saturday,July 20, 2019, 08:17:54 AM
All good, BDA (and Certified)

I guess we’re all influenced by events.
The worst aspect of spinal injuries is that there’s (or was) no real way of determining the extent of the damage. At the time, the treatment for all cases was to remain flat on your back for three months and wait.
At the conclusion of three months, the nurses come around, sit you on the side of the bed for ten minutes and then . . see if you can stand.

As it turned out, my brother was 2nd best off out of the whole ward. He was very lucky.
Anyway, apologies for the OT.

Cheers, chaps.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,July 20, 2019, 08:45:23 AM
I see Certified deleted his post. Just so he knows, I don't think that was warranted. We drive these cars in spite of their inherent safety deficiencies. We can add all the fuel pump relays, fire extinguishers, and cut off switches we want and they won't help a bit in a T-bone situation. My first rule of Europas is, "if you can't be seen you must be heard", but there is probably no horn loud enough to reach a tractor trailer driver with his window up, A/C and radio on. So we all take risks and we have a few choices about which risks we will take but not that many and it's up to each of us which how we evaluate those risks. Driving a Europa is a lesson in defensive driving. If we were REALLY risk averse, we would all drive Cadillac Escalades.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Saturday,July 20, 2019, 06:06:12 PM
GavinT… you're killing me with those acronyms and texting shorts....
what is YMMV?   my official "Texting Dictionary of Acronyms" 3rd edition has it as "your mileage may vary", but I don't think that's what you inferred.   Then later you wrote OT?  if I recall....oh i'm sorry, let me state that better.....IIRC  :)    I haven't the foggiest what you meant to say.....Us older guys who aren't tech or text savvy have no clue!   :FUNNY:

Glen, I've been away as you know on vacation and just tonight caught up on the several pages of your rebuild story....you've been a busy boy even when I brought all the heat back with me from the south west!!!    LOG here we come!!!    :pirate:

Darn, missed the garage event in Stockton....hopefully well attended?   i hosted a 92nd B-day party for my dad today, so couldn't make it.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,July 21, 2019, 03:07:46 AM
I see Certified deleted his post. Just so he knows, I don't think that was warranted. We drive these cars in spite of their inherent safety deficiencies. We can add all the fuel pump relays, fire extinguishers, and cut off switches we want and they won't help a bit in a T-bone situation. My first rule of Europas is, "if you can't be seen you must be heard", but there is probably no horn loud enough to reach a tractor trailer driver with his window up, A/C and radio on. So we all take risks and we have a few choices about which risks we will take but not that many and it's up to each of us which how we evaluate those risks. Driving a Europa is a lesson in defensive driving. If we were REALLY risk averse, we would all drive Cadillac Escalades.

BDA, I wrote a lengthy comment on racing and manual fuel pump cut off switches and other aspects of driving cars with almost no safety features. After posting and rereading I thought why bother and deleted it. There are millions of cars on the road without roll over/impact fuel cut off switches. I figured if I didn’t continue to comment the discussion would just go away.

Back to my rebuild!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,July 21, 2019, 03:11:57 AM
Ted, welcome back from your cross country trip. Want to hear all about it. Yes, I’ve been focused on completing my Europa while you were gone. I still believe I’ll have it done for LOG and our road trip.

The PALS Garage Tour event at Darby’s was very nice and well attended. Karl has a great workshop and three very cool brass cars from 1915 era (plus a couple of Lotus’).

I ended up skipping the Doylestown car show later in the afternoon. I had preregistered and arrived at the staging area exactly at the required time. 45 minutes later there was very little movement of hundreds of cars to the downtown area and I was roasting on an open parking lot in 90+ degree weather. I just left. The idea of spending five hours in the sun and heat became reality and went home. My wife and I had a nice dinner together in an air conditioned restaurant.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Sunday,July 21, 2019, 03:53:10 AM
 Hey Glen,
 It can’t be said enough, your car is definitely picture perfect. Keep moving forward and I hope you make it to LOG.
Dave
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,July 21, 2019, 05:08:34 AM
Thanks Dave! I’m off to pick up my left side door and front splitter this morning. When I get back I’m going to install the custom air filter installation and my custom exhaust bracket. Both will take some work to get the way I want it but will all be worth it.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Sunday,July 21, 2019, 06:21:23 AM
I look forward to seeing your air box intake system with great interest, since another thread informs me my foam air filter is one backfire away from total immolation. (Sorry about opening a can of worms with my impact switch comment.)  ::)
Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Sunday,July 21, 2019, 07:20:55 AM
I see Certified deleted his post. Just so he knows, I don't think that was warranted.

Agreed, I also think Certified should have left the post. It was fine.

I’d like to think we’re all mature enough to accept peoples’ different perspectives and hope I didn’t contribute to some self censoring by Certified because that was never my intention.
As I say, it’s all good with me.

Cheers,
Gavin
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Sunday,July 21, 2019, 07:24:08 AM
GavinT… you're killing me with those acronyms and texting shorts....

Point taken Ted, I’ve lapsed into a world of TLA’s and some of them have four.  :FUNNY:
BTW (by the way) “Us older guys” includes me having turned 70 last April.  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,July 21, 2019, 07:29:00 AM
Never apologize for an opinion, factual error, sure.  For years MGBs, and others, had an ignition feed fuel pump with no roll-over switch.  Lots of fun was had and few lives were lost.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,July 21, 2019, 04:07:20 PM
Never apologize for an opinion, factual error, sure.  For years MGBs, and others, had an ignition feed fuel pump with no roll-over switch.  Lots of fun was had and few lives were lost.

No worries JB, Gavin and Surf, just decided not to get overly engaged in the subject matter.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,July 21, 2019, 04:13:28 PM
Brutal day today. It was 96 degrees F inside the garage.  I had my big fan running at high speed all afternoon which kept some of the humidity down, but the temp never went down.

Never the less, I had a lot to do and a list of what I wanted to get done. So I hydrated like crazy and ignored the fact that I was soaking wet all day.

Went to Dave Hoffman's body shop as planned this morning and picked up my door and front splitter.  All went well and I was back by 11:30 this morning to get to work on my list. Installed the front splitter right away as it was easy and got it out of the way in my shop.

Focused on the custom bracket I had made for the exhaust hanger at the end of the transaxle. I need to drill the four holes (two for the transaxle mount and two for the U-clamp) make a few custom grinds, media blast everything and paint with high temp silver paint and then let cure (I painted in the basement as it was too humid outside for anything to dry).

While the paint was curing I then set about measuring for the location of the K&N airfilter bracket and filter. RD Ent. makes a very neat airfilter bracket that is low profile and simple. I bought one to use for this installation. Once I figured out the right location for the airfilter (the angle is important to connect to the airbox and the airfilter must be above the bottom of the pan of the body) I marked the holes to drill, installed stainless steel bolts, nuts and washers and bolted the bracket in. As the "firewall" is a bit flimsy, I made sure that I used large SS washers and a custom plate on the interior to provide the right support.  Everything went according to plan with the only small issue being one of the fuel lines was in the way.  I made a new one and routed it accordingly.

One major note; I reinforced the inside of the filter with a schedule 40 PVC adapter and used a 3" rubber gasket and hose clamp to attached the filter to the bracket.  That made it a lot more stable and you could really tighten the hose clamp down without distorting the rubber on the filter.

I went back to installing the exhaust system bracket and bolted everything in to the transaxle. It is solid and looks good. My only concern is the silencer (Muffler) is too close to the chassis at one end. Will need to do some fine tune adjustment.

Installed the front radiator hoses and clamps.  I tried to installed the supplied electric fan that came with the radiator, but it won’t bolt up to any holes on the fan shroud.  I'm tired and sweaty and just drained. Will figure that out on another day.

Had a beer and admired my work before heading to the shower. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Sunday,July 21, 2019, 06:04:19 PM
96 degrees?   for that million dollar home you don't have AC routed out there????  :)    you have a window, you should put a window unit in even on a temporary basis....
seems I hate working in the garage in extreme heat and extreme cold, so Spring and Fall are my preferred working times out there, unless, like you, i'm under the gun to get something accomplished!   and you are a man on a mission!!!

With the air intake so low, do you have any concern about water splashing up from tires in a rain storm?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,July 21, 2019, 06:42:25 PM
I don’t drive in the rain  :FUNNY:

Seriously, I’m installing a NACA duct just below that will direct air to the area but not right on the filter.

Ted, my garage is 1000 sq ft. It would take a very large window AC to cool it down sufficiently. I usually don’t work in the garage when the temp is this high but I want to get my car done to drive to LOG so i’m working in the heat. Not the end of the world, just a little uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,July 21, 2019, 06:52:44 PM
One would think that coming from New Orleans that I would be somewhat resistant or at least not be so wimpy with regard to the heat but I have to hand it to Certified and the D'man for working in the heat we on the east coast and the gulf coast have been experiencing. That's dedication!

I second Ted's suggestion. A 1200 BTU window unit wouldn't reduce the temps to the 70s but it will cut the humidity by a lot. It is a very good investment!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,July 22, 2019, 02:43:57 AM
BDA, our house is for sale (we are moving to a state with lower taxes and downsizing) so buying anything for the house is not money well spent. I can handle the heat for a week or too......maybe.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Pfreen on Monday,July 22, 2019, 06:02:26 AM
I made a cold air inlet for my tcs.  It has been in service for nearly a year.  I have not needed to clean the filter yet.  http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2658.msg25750#msg25750
So, as much discussion as there has been about road dirt with a low mounted air filter, it doesn’t seem to be a problem.  I don’t drive in the rain though, at least not intentionally.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,July 22, 2019, 06:31:18 AM
BDA, our house is for sale (we are moving to a state with lower taxes and downsizing) so buying anything for the house is not money well spent. I can handle the heat for a week or too......maybe.

I hear you and good luck! Where are you moving?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Monday,July 22, 2019, 07:00:52 AM
I can handle the heat for a week or too......maybe.

We had some friends drop by unexpectedly yesterday. "What brings you to town?" I said.
"The radio says we need to check up on the elderly during the heat wave. So, how are you guys?" They said.  :FUNNY:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,July 24, 2019, 05:34:54 PM
The temperature finally dropped along with the humidity here in the North East. At least its "more comfortable" to work in the garage and I was waiting for this to happen to start the dash install and other behind the dash and under the dash installations.

So the progress today started with the vent installation on top of the "crash pad" and then the heater box hoses, then the hand brake and the steering wheel "crash bar". Installed the dash, screwed in all the dash Phillips head bolts and bolted in the steering column bracket under the dash. Installed the dash trim and bolted & screwed it in. Installed the fresh air hoses under the dash.

Removed the radiator fan blade from the housing and reversed it so it is now a pusher fan instead of a puller. Figured out how to install the fan assembly to the radiator and bolted it in.

Tomorrow is running the wiring harness along with some extra wire from the engine bay to the dash for who knows what I decide to install at some point in time.  And maybe the next day to test all the circuits out. And it won't surprise me if I pull the dash out at least one more time to make some connection I can't do from underneath......

Also need to install the steering column u-joint which will require that I remove the steering rack to bolt in the u-joint and then bolt in the column supports.

Scheduled the glass installer for Wednesday giving them fair warning to bring the right adhesive for direct glue to fiberglass. I'm making a brace for the inside top of the roof to the chassis tunnel to keep it straight while the adhesive sets up. 

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,July 24, 2019, 07:22:36 PM
Congratulations on your progress! Congratulations, too, on finding a windshield installer to install your windshield! I called probably two dozen windshield installers before I found one who would do it.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Thursday,July 25, 2019, 12:00:27 PM
glen, not nit-picking (honest), but shouldn't the shifter ball be the same color/shade to match that beautiful dashboard?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Thursday,July 25, 2019, 12:06:04 PM
glen, not nit-picking (honest), but shouldn't the shifter ball be the same color/shade to match that beautiful dashboard?

Amazing the difference in names.

We on the other side of the pond, where manual transmission is more normal, would call that a gear stick knob or gear knob.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,July 25, 2019, 12:08:22 PM
glen, not nit-picking (honest), but shouldn't the shifter ball be the same color/shade to match that beautiful dashboard?

I wish Prestige Autowood, who made my dash, made matching shift knob (regardless of the name!  ;D )
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,July 25, 2019, 06:58:46 PM
Congratulations on your progress! Congratulations, too, on finding a windshield installer to install your windshield! I called probably two dozen windshield installers before I found one who would do it.

BDA, the first auto glass installer I called said yes. I even challenged them regarding the requirements for the installation and made them call the manufacturer of the adhesive they use to confirm direct glue to fiberglass was approved. They called me back and reconfirmed.  The area I live in is near Trenton NJ where there are lots of shops that cater to specialized automotive builds.  I've got machine shops, metal fabrication shops, custom exhaust shops, automotive interior shops,  powder coating shop (just one) and plating shops. Lots of paint shops but only a couple will do fiberglass and most have 2 year wait lists. Never the less, lots of access to the specialization I need when I need it.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,July 25, 2019, 07:04:55 PM
glen, not nit-picking (honest), but shouldn't the shifter ball be the same color/shade to match that beautiful dashboard?

Ted, you of all people (you know me well) shouldn't even have to ask. Of course I have a shift knob that matches......

But to be honest I have been purposely leaving a few things unrestored as homage the original car and the guys who originally built this car.  Every once in a while you will find an original bolt or metal bracket that wasn't refinished.  I even purposely have a part of the body that wasn't re-sprayed just to show the original paint (you can't even tell as the color match is that close).



Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,July 25, 2019, 07:22:13 PM
Small progress today. As usual everything takes time and I am typically careful and thoughtful on what I am doing.

Installed the weber carb throttle cable linkage on the carbs.  This is designed by weber and I had one left over from my Elan S1 rebuild that didn't fit because the profile was too high. The Europa is another story as there are no issues with clearance to the engine deck lid.

Then I installed the steering column bolting it to the metal bracket dash support and making sure the crash bracket was attached too. Then the bracket for the ignition switch. Everything was installed and bolted in laying flat of my back on the drivers side floor.  You can't do this with the seats in.

Laying out the wiring harness was next.  Separated the rear part of the harness from the pile of wire on the floor and routed the wiring through the opening in the firewall. Then I took the front part of the harness and taped it up with painters tape to protect the various connectors that come out of the harness as I was going to feed it through the small opening between the body to the front boot of the car. Used a coat hanger to pull the harness through and then removed all the tape. Started connecting leads to the various devices in the boot.


Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,July 28, 2019, 09:17:48 AM
I must have cursed myself putting the license plate on the car before it was ready for a road test. Let me explain.......I came across a set of 4 stainless steel license plate bolts in one of my many parts bins and decided I would put them with the plates so when I was ready to put them on I would have everything in the same area. Open the drawer where the license plates are (I have several, don't ask) I decided what the heck, just put the rear plate on now.  Which is what did. BAM. Almost everything that happened the rest of the evening went badly.

Installed the rear chrome tail pipe to make sure the clearance was right and I liked the location. Looks great (in my opinion).

Then went about the task of unbolting the front steering rack and the steering column in order to install the u-joint that attaches the steering column to the rack. Disassembly went easily.  For those of you that haven't done this yet,  you need to attach the u-joint to the end of the steering column and then lower it into place in front of the steering rack that has been removed from its brackets that hold it to the chassis.  There is just enough room to insert and tighten the bolt on the rack side. Once that is done you can push the entire rack assembly back onto the brackets.

Now comes the hard part.  The only place to access the top bolts on the two brackets to install lock nuts is through the access hole in the front box of the chassis.  This sounds easy but you are encumbered by the steering rack, water cooling hose and sway bar.  All in the way of getting inside the hole on the chassis to fit a small wrench to hold the lock nut in place to tighten the bolt on the bracket. To make matter worse, the location of the nut is right above another piece of metal inside the box which means you can only get a wrench on the nut at a weird angle. None of which can be accomplished because you cant get your hand into the opening. 

I wont bore you with all the details but just know that I finally quit at 2am and 3 beers and STILL did not have everything installed.  The secret of getting the lock nuts in place was to use an odd surgical tool (I have a box of them from the flea market, they always come in handy) to hold the nut and get it threaded (blindly and only by feel).  Then you can just barely get a small open end wrench in the hole to hold the nut while using a socket wrench on the outside of the bracket to tighten.

The highlite of the evening was getting my lovely wife to hold the steering column while I lined up the u-joint at the rack location. She says when she completed her task "it doesn't look like you have gotten very far since the last time I was out here.  You're not going to get this done in two weeks.........  Thanks dear. Double curse.

Later that morning (10am) I finished the steering rack & Column installation and started back on the wiring.  I made a new harness of 4 wires to run from the engine bay to the dash for future needs.  The electronic tach needs a wire and the electric fuel pump needs a switch plus I'm sure Ill need something else later down the road. Easy to do it now and run with the rest of the harness under the carpeting.

Before I quit at the end of the day (had friends coming over for dinner) I made a template for the heat shield I was making for the bottom of the rear engine bay storage box (I had already cleaned off the grease and grime from the bottom of the fiberglass box). The OEM metal plate was all rusty and the asbestos cloth was a bit ratty so I decided to remove and use fiberglass heat shield instead. The template went quickly so I cut out the heat shield and installed on the bottom of the box. I will trim with silver heat tape to insure it doesn't peel off at some point down the road.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,July 28, 2019, 09:53:32 AM
Nice pictures, Certified! Give my regards to your beautiful assistant.

I sympathize with the the difficulty in attaching the steering column to the rack with the stock frame. I would advise anyone in the market for a frame to make sure the frame they get has enhanced access in that area. If they are restoring their frame, adding better access there would be a good objective of the restoration. Most people haven't had to take their rack off and on as many times as I have (but then most people are smarter than I) and the easy access in that area in my early Spyder frame made it a pretty simple one-man task.

Good luck with the rest of your restoration. I'm keeping my fingers crossed you'll be able to take it to the LOG.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Sunday,July 28, 2019, 10:34:26 AM
G’day Certified,

You installed the alloy rack brackets with the nuts on the inside?
Agreed, the access is nearly impossible.

I made up a 16 gauge plate and zapped the bolt heads to it somewhat like this (stolen) pic except using two bolts.
Install this plate inside the chassis and Bob’s your aunty’s live in lover.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Sunday,July 28, 2019, 02:43:25 PM
 Thanks Glen, you and GalvinT just reminded me to insert the hyloc’s in the the 5510 plates I made up awhile back. Now I have my one thing to do that doesn’t require finding pieces. I even pulled out the column and went Thru your pain.

 I had to laugh at the picture of you BA sitting on the door for jamb. It really triggered how small these cars are.  I know the double thing, it looks to me you can make it. Don’t rush it ! It’s to close to being finished. BTW, what is the break-in on your engine or did they do that at the shop?

We’re here for you but just as cheerleaders, it all is you, your BA and friends.
Hope you meet your goal.
Dave
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,July 28, 2019, 09:16:51 PM
Thanks for the moral support BDA, GavinT, and Dakazman.  Yes. my assistant is rather cute and I always welcome her in the garage  :pirate:  No fear, I am focused on always doing the right level of work irrespective of the time line. Remember, I'm a track guy so shortcuts equal serious injury. I don't do shortcut's.  The car is either built to my standards or it doesn't go on the road.

GavinT. your smarter than I am. Nice solution !

Dakazman, the engine was broken in on the dyno at Quicksilver racing.  I always have them do that as it makes for a more fun start of my road trips.  :trophy:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,July 28, 2019, 09:49:34 PM
Another hot day in NJ.  I worked on the Europa in the morning and the late afternoon into the evening. Some fabrication on certain parts was needed (what else is new) and I had to visit a friends garage to make some of the parts which of course delayed the completion of today's list of projects to get done.
Here is what was accomplished today:

I'm not installing the stock steering wheel. This wheel was on my '64 Elan S1 when I bought it  (I changed to a 26R steering wheel) and I thought it complemented the Europa very well.

Then I installed the air horns in the front boot (The puny electric horn was not loud enough).

Made the brake line from the master cylinder to the rear balancing valve. It’s the longest brake line in the car and has a couple of bends to locate properly. Plus I needed to get it installed before I bolted in the closing plate. I find it odd that the brake line runs along the bottom of the chassis exposed to the road. Was thinking about relocating it inside the chassis, but that means adding some type of clamp every 2 ft so it doesn’t vibrate and it was just too much work to even consider.

One of the "custom" things I do to brake lines is to add clear vinyl hose to any brake/fuel line where it is clamped to prevent chaffing.  Just count the number of clamps that will be used, cut the number pieces of clear hose to be used and slide them on the hose before adding the fittings. And then I wrap SS wire to hold the vinyl hose in place at the clamping points.

The installation of the closing plate had its own challenges. Two of the threaded bolts that hold the plate in place had snapped off (PO did this). Of course I was going to try and save the day by drilling out the bolts and re-threading them. Good idea but not reality. I drilled out the bolts and then used a bolt extractor which ended up breaking inside the bolt. Great, now I have hardened steel extractor that wont drill out easily.  Spent a couple of hours grinding out the extractor with a Dremel tool, then re-drilling and using a tap to thread the opening.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Monday,July 29, 2019, 04:32:43 AM
four (4) pictures of the broken bolt extractor??   are you making a point, or just very tired?  ;D
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,July 29, 2019, 04:44:40 AM
Was way too tired Ted. Corrected. Thanks!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Monday,July 29, 2019, 11:25:23 AM
The installation of the closing plate had its own challenges. Two of the threaded bolts that hold the plate in place had snapped off (PO did this). Of course I was going to try and save the day by drilling out the bolts and re-threading them. Good idea but not reality. I drilled out the bolts and then used a bolt extractor which ended up breaking inside the bolt. Great, now I have hardened steel extractor that wont drill out easily.  Spent a couple of hours grinding out the extractor with a Dremel tool, then re-drilling and using a tap to thread the opening.

Been there, done that. But with me it is always the hardened drill breaking in those holes.

I ended up overdrilling and tapping for 5/16"UNF instead of the standard 1/4"UNF.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: seniorchristo on Tuesday,July 30, 2019, 06:09:05 PM
You're quite the Restoration Maestro Glen :beerchug: I know from working with you there's always a few tricks up your sleeve for installing the nearly impossible.  Surgical tools!  :)  Who would have thunk it. ???
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 03:04:19 AM
4129R, I am so careful when I drill out snapped off bolts & rethread. Like you, have broken a few drill bits myself inside the bolt I’m drilling. Never thought to just increase the size of the bolt and drill away. Will remember that. Thanks!

Chris, thanks for the complement and yes, surgical tools in the garage. Truth be known, I usually buy surgical tools for my RC model building. But that’s another story......
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 04:53:34 AM
Surgical instruments have all kinds of uses. No dropped washer gets away from these babies.
t
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 09:19:44 AM
Windscreen install day. I had made an interior brace to hold up the fiberglass roof and setup all the parts for the windscreen install earlier in the morning.  Nobody was more surprised than me when two very large trucks from ABS Auto Glass pulls into my driveway and 4 guys pile out.  They are admiring my Lotus cars and my workshop and when we get to talking about the installation of the windscreen and what is actually involved there is a lot of Spanish conversation going on and a phone call to "the boss". They hang up and say they can't do the job.  HUH? You got to be kidding.  They say to call the boss. Which I do.

I calmly explained the woman I spoke with last week on the phone was well informed of what was involved and specifically talked about a glue in windscreen along with gluing in the trim. I even said I made her contact the adhesive manufacturer to confirm it would adhere to fiberglass (which she did).  And then I told him I took the day off from work to be here.  He said he would be at my house in 20 minutes and tell his guys to wait.

20 minutes later he shows up, has me explain how the windscreen and trim is installed and then takes over.  Very methodical, very focused, explaining everything he is doing to his guys in Spanish and in 90 minutes its all done. Amazing. Says not to move the car for 4 hours, leave the tape on for 48 hours and everything should be good.

Thanks me for my business and leaves. His guys hand me the bill ($320) even though there were 5 people and took longer than expected. I was happy to pay them.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Dan C 2624R on Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 09:56:30 AM
Glenn,  The car is really coming together and looking great.  Dan
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 10:15:50 AM
looks great!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 12:13:50 PM
I second Ted and Dan's comments. She is looking great, but I have to say, you are REALLY lucky that that guy was willing to do your windshield job and explain to his workers how to do it. I can't tell you how many windshield shops I called - even ones that cater to classic cars - who didn't want to have anything to do with my windshield. When I was building my car back in '98, I found two guys who were willing to do it. The first guy said he wouldn't guarantee anything. While the second guy was doing it, I told him about the first guy. He said he wasn't going to guarantee anything either! He did a great job and there were no problems but nobody wants to fool with them at all now.

May your luck continue!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: andy harwood on Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 12:23:59 PM
That looks really good! A beautiful car and restoration job!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 02:02:34 PM
Wow Glen , what a story!
 As am reading your post I say to myself, please take all the junk out of your pockets. Then I see your well prepared.
  As always your prep work has checkmated all obstacles. Well done.
 
I find myself looking at the pictures and find myself saying, that’s not what I ordered. The trim looks fantastic!👍👍

   Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 07:52:14 PM
Really looks like a complete car with the windshield in. Congrats Glen!

I had a bit of a windshield scare today. You may hear on the news a tornado/microburst tore through the area north of Boston today. My wife and I were in a movie theater and missed the whole thing. We came out into a war zone. Trees and branches were down all over the place. Our house and driveway are under a huge chestnut tree. As we were walking back to the house my wife was saying "Oh please let the roof of our house and the garden be okay". I was saying to myself "Oh please let the Lotus windshield not be broken". Fortunately both were okay, but our neighbors were not all so lucky. Weather is weird these days.
t
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 08:20:32 PM
Weather has always been weird! I'm glad you, your family, and your stuff were unharmed!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Wednesday,July 31, 2019, 09:22:44 PM
. . . but I have to say, you are REALLY lucky that that guy was willing to do your windshield job and explain to his workers how to do it. I can't tell you how many windshield shops I called - even ones that cater to classic cars - who didn't want to have anything to do with my windshield.
I hear ya . .
Way back in time, I purchased a new windscreen for my Lotus Excel which included installation.
When it came time for delivery, I got a call saying they they wouldn’t be able to install because it was a “foreign scary car” which was my interpretation.

After pressing them on the issue, they agreed to have one of their installers assess the situation without any further commitment on their part. The “assessor” would be able to visit within about two hours and look at it on his way to his next job.

I agreed and the guy duly turned up. I explained how it all went together with the sides of the windscreen covered by those fibreglass “spats” (for want of a better word). He said it all looked fine and installed it the next afternoon without a problem. He even supplied the top & bottom capping trim which looked brilliant. It was just some flattish generic trim that came off a roll in his van!

So, I think what happens is that the vast majority of installers are likely independent contractors and perhaps many of them aren’t prepared to take the risk on something unknown when they can install Toyota windscreens all day long and avoid the hassle.

Anyway, Glenn, the car looks great.
Somehow they always look much more complete with the windscreen in.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,August 01, 2019, 03:58:09 AM
Thanks everyone. Really appreciate the complements and your following of my two year journey. The New Hope Auto Show is August 11th. I’m down to the wire on getting  2358R done. The work I get done this coming weekend will be a good indication if that is possible.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,August 01, 2019, 05:41:20 AM
Surf, glad your car (plus you and your wife) escaped any damage from the storm.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Thursday,August 01, 2019, 05:55:54 AM
Surf, glad your car (plus you and your wife) escaped any damage from the storm.

Thanks Cert. Today is a clean-up day. Good luck on you push for the 8/11 Auto Show!
t
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Dan C 2624R on Thursday,August 01, 2019, 09:19:51 AM
Glenn,  I forgot about the New Hope Show.  I will try to make it.  Not sure of your schedule but the Positive Earth Drivers Club  (pedc.org) is having their "Brits on the Beach" car show on September 14 in Ocean Grove.  Only issue it's limited to 130 cars.  Many MGs and Austins but only  a couple Loti last year.  Dan.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,August 01, 2019, 10:00:03 AM
Thanks Dan, but my September is completely booked.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Thursday,August 01, 2019, 10:21:25 AM
Certified, It sounds to me you are ready to start a new thread soon. I for one will be an active reader of the trips and shows of 2358R. I can see the he trophies piling up already.
Dakazman
 

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,August 01, 2019, 06:22:58 PM
Dakazman, power of positive thinking but I always go to the car shows wanting to see other cars and what type of restorations owners have done as well a share restoration experiences and motivate a few people who have had project's in their garage for way too long. If I happen to win a trophy I'm a happy guy, but its not the sole purpose. 

There will definitely be a video of the road trip to LOG39  :pirate:   
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,August 01, 2019, 06:46:01 PM
A little more progress today.  Most of my time was spent on custom fabrication. It's a dilemma, do I just focus on getting the big projects done to get the car on the road or do I continue the rebuild completing all the things I want to do that are small but important (to me) enhancements to the car.  My vision wins and I'm spending valuable hours fabricating things.

The throttle linkage is a factory weber part but it required some fabrication to make the linkage operate effortlessly.  That meant making a threaded receiver for the part of the linkage that connects to the butterfly valves.  Found a large clevis pin that fit perfectly and cut it down with my small compressed air cutting wheel, then drilled a hole and used a tap to thread the hole so the linkage rod could screw in from the side.  I made an extra one for my "road kit" as this is a part you will not find in a local shop if you break down on the road.

Next was making another wiring harness plate with rubber grommet.  I found it odd that the car was designed with only one seal from the firewall to the interior of the car.  It clearly had leaked and is a weak spot for water to get inside the car.  I made a second plate so there is one inside and outside the firewall to minimize the ability of moisture penetrating the interior of the car. Overkill I'm sure.......but its the details that make a custom rebuild so special.

Installed clevis pins on the brake pedal, clutch pedal and throttle pedal.  What a pain to get them in as the area in the foot well is hardly big enough for me to really fit, but I manage to contort my body enough while lying on my back to get everything installed.

Painted the bracket for the heater valve and choke cable controls. I know, no-one will see it, but it was a little rusty and needed to be media blasted and repainted. Also painted the front wire grill while I was spray painting outside.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,August 01, 2019, 06:53:31 PM
Good work, Certified! I do think that carburetor linkage is kinda important so time wasn't waisted on that! Same goes for the brake clevis and your grommet!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Thursday,August 01, 2019, 08:20:22 PM
just noticed what I think is the VIN number on the chassis frame member where you have the wiring going through the firewall?   First time I've actually ever seen those numbers on a Europa chassis.   Usually rusty or unreadable.

also, problem with the new rubber items produced today is that white coating.  very visible on the foot pedals.   unimportant for sure, but a wire brush job cleans them up quick to look black like rubber should.

it's coming along...
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,August 02, 2019, 02:55:51 AM
Thanks BDA, your right the throttle linkage operating well is kind of important  8)

Ted, this Europa had its chassis number all over the car. Not only was the chassis clearly stamped (good eyes) but the doors, firewall and chassis tunnel all had the number inscribed. Plus the color yellow was written in (which is why I kept the car the OEM color).

Thanks for the tip on using a wire brush on the white coated rubber. I did not know that. Was going to use “back to black” liquid cleaner which does a nice job, but I will try your method.   
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,August 02, 2019, 03:49:41 AM
Also installed the windshield wipers
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,August 02, 2019, 07:52:52 PM
I had posted a question about the fuse box location and Surfguitar58 showed me a picture of his fuse box location that I really liked so I fabricated a bracket to mount in the same location. (Thanks Surf!) The OEM location was behind the edge of the console and it just didn't seem like a good design for accessing the fuses.  Yes I know, more custom fabrication instead of working on the absolutely necessary stuff to get the car running.

After I finished the bracket and installed it, I spent most of the evening flat on my back on the floor under the dash running wires and testing circuits. 

Unpacked the carpeting I had ordered in 2017 and laid it out on the floor to see what I had and think about the install.

Chris is coming over tomorrow to help me install the doors as it would be very difficult to do on my own. I would have liked to have had the wiring completed and the carpeting installed before I installed the doors, but having Chris help me supersedes everything else.

I've called around to a number of alignment shops  and no-one (so far) will do a Europa. That's not good. I'm going to need to be creative.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,August 02, 2019, 08:06:37 PM
I'm surprised that you're having trouble getting someone to do your alignment. If you haven't found anybody yet, you might look for shops that cater to performance cars, track cars, race cars, etc. When I first got my car on the road, I took it to a shop that works on track, race, and autocross cars. He was happy to do my rear end toe-in. I felt I could do my camber and front toe.

If you still have difficulties, you might get your own gear. Camber/caster gauges aren't that expensive. There are also full car alignment setups if you don't want to the string and jack stand method. This one looks pretty interesting (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-4-Wheel-Alignment-System-Digital-Camber-Gauge-Caster-Toe-tool/281369075714?hash=item4182e76002:g:pHEAAOSwGiRTqJqi). There are others on ebay. Even this setup should pay for itself after a few alignments.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,August 04, 2019, 02:43:14 AM
BDA, Race shop is a good idea, but the closest one is almost 2 hours away at NJMP. I had thought of that but figured I could find someone more local. If not I will head to the track.

If I wasn’t selling my home (and more importantly my garage) I would have already ordered suggested 4 wheel alignment set-up.  Looks like it would be a great addition to anyone’s shop.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,August 04, 2019, 04:29:52 AM
The day did not turn out as planned (I should be getting used to this by now). Chris was coming over at 8am and I was setting up my garage at 7am for working on the doors. Cleared out my Elan's so we had plenty of work space and brought out two folding tables to place the doors on.

I went down to the basement where I had the door stored and covered (didn't want them in the way getting scratched in the garage) and carefully brought the first door up (left door) and placed it on the table.  As I was leaving the garage to go and get the second door I heard a crash. Uh Oh.  Turned around to find the door laying on the concrete floor.....

Calmly walked over, picked up the door and put it back on the table. How did that happen? Realized I had placed the door just at the right angle for the curve of the door to cause a slight slip and the rest was up to gravity. After a careful review of the entire door it was evident it could have been much worse. Two areas on the top edge need repainting. The top corner will need some glass work. Contacted Dave who said bring it over on Monday morning and he will get right to it.

Chris arrived and I told him my story. He thought I was being rather calm about the whole thing. Stuff happens.

We got all the parts out for the assembling the doors.  All the interior parts (electric motors, door receivers, rods for the door locks to receiver, etc etc all nicely bagged and marked right/left doors).  Read the door pin/hinge instructions from RD and test fit the entire assembly. Looks easy, this will go quickly.......

I had purchased new locks, exterior door handles and interior door openers.  The exterior door handles where in OEM bags marked left and right. I took out the right door handle and we started working on the right door. The handle didn't quite fir so I brought out a drill to open the one hole a bit more and then some sand paper to get some of the paint off the inside edge of the handle opening. I wont bore you with all the details but after an hour of fettling in was obvious this handle wasn't going to fit flush to the body.  Strange I thought.  Went to go look for the original door handles, found the right one and put it in place. Fit instantly. Huh?  I went to the other new door handle bag and it clearly said left handle. Opened it anyway and tried it. Yup, fit like a glove. The bags where labeled incorrectly. Upon further inspection it was also oblivious that the new handle had changed a bit as the opening mechanism had a different fitting on it. Enough of this I thought. The OEM handles weren't that bad, I'm using them. 

Chris and I both thought the way the handle was secured to the fiberglass via two bolts with small washers was way too delicate and decided to custom make new washers to enhance the area of the backplate to cover more glass.  I made a template on a large washer and ground it down then filed it to fit the unusual shape. While I was fitting the exterior handle Chris made another custom washer for the left door.

We then set about installing the new interior door opener.  Yup, that had changed too.  Decided we could modify it enough to fit and started drilling holes and cutting off the ears that were not needed nor did they allow the new openers to fit inside the mounting bracket. Chris made all the changes after we talked about what needed to be done.

I bolted in the receiver on the right door and was assembling the control rods when I realized I needed two of the those special clips that hold the rod in place.  I know I ordered those. Where did I put them. After 30 minutes of searching I gave up. Ill just order more from RD.

On to attaching the door. I had purchased RD's stainless steel hinge set for both doors. I know, Richard's brass hinge sets are noted for being so much easier to install and adjust. But they are doubt the price and how hard could it be........

I tried to test fit the large SS door pin.  Just what I thought.  The bobbin opening are just a bit too small. I used a micrometer to measure the pin and the holes. Got out a 1/2" bit and right angle electric drill to open the holes.  That worked. Now we are ready for the right door install. 

The RD instruction sheet says some people take four hours to install and adjust and they say they can do it in 10 minutes.  Guess which time frame is more accurate? 

It was a hot and humid afternoon in my garage. Typical August weather. And that door took every minute of two plus hours to install and adjust. I was dripping wet and the only thing that kept my sanity was two beers in the middle of the adjusting process. Thank god Chris was helping. He was outside the car holding the door and the special flat steel wrench to hold the nut in place while I was inside the "fiberglass oven" tightening the locking nuts.  Several times over.

So here is the secret.  When you tighten the nuts inside the door it moves the door location. We finally placed thick cardboard in the door gaps to make them even and then tightened the nuts. 

It also became very evident I should have installed the rubber door molding to get the gaps exactly right. Well, now I am well prepared for the left door when it comes back from Dave's.

Chris left to take his girl friend to dinner (thanks for being patient while we finished the door install) and I installed the new rear deck lid hinges.  Ah, something fit without modifying!

Feeling a little accomplished......but not really.  Learned a lot today. I have decided the New Hope auto show is not reality, I'm focused on getting the Europa done for LOG39.

Tick Tock.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Sunday,August 04, 2019, 06:20:12 AM
glen, did you use the sandpaper washers that came in the kit?   or did you use better larger grit sandpaper others have suggested work better (never needed future adjustment, never moving)??

Very sad about the falling door..... I would not have been so gracious :(
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Dan C 2624R on Sunday,August 04, 2019, 06:25:34 AM
Real Shame about the door.  I hope I would be as calm in a similar situation.  Good to see the other door went together as you guys were able to adapt and overcome.  New Hope is nice but LOG is the target.  Dan
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,August 04, 2019, 09:50:27 AM
That really is a shame about the door! I know the feeling. Remaining calm through it is important!

I have Richard's hinges and it may be because I'm a klutz but I can spend hours aligning a door and it will end up only being a lot better. I've heard people use the stock hinge setup and done really well with it. I think the biggest advantage - and this would be useful here - is that you can adjust the door and take it off. Then when you put it back in, you only have to worry about the height adjustment.

Also too bad about the New Hope show. I'm still crossing my fingers and toes for you to make the LOG!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,August 04, 2019, 10:30:03 AM
It's easy to adjust the doors... until you put the seal in and try to make them fit and leak proof.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Sunday,August 04, 2019, 03:55:19 PM
Dang Glen, I can’t imagine the words that would have flowed out of my mind, good thing it’s sometimes disconnected from my mouth.
 It’s only a material item,   I’m sure Dave can fix those defects, even if it may just be temporary.

Knowing what you know about the doors , do you think it could have been hung without help? With nothing but a bare shell?

Dave
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,August 04, 2019, 07:31:10 PM
Thanks for all the moral support regarding my door drop.  Off to Dave's tomorrow morning and hopefully he can turn the repair around quickly.

Ted, I used the sandpaper washers that came with the kit.  They seemed fine. Dakazman, I think it would be extremely difficult to install the doors by yourself, if not impossible. It's a two man job.

JB, my Elan S1 leaks like a sieve through the door gaps in the pouring  rain. The Europa will be significantly better I am sure.  Never the less, I am not expecting 21st century car weather proofing. I am fairly certain I can make them fit properly with the door seals in.

BDA and Dan., New Hope was a target for completion that kept me focused. Now that I have decided not to even try to complete by then I can use the valuable hours to finish up my rebuild.  LOG39 is the real target. 

Let's see if that is possible.......
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,August 04, 2019, 07:44:04 PM
Another hot and muggy day in NJ.  Spent the morning doing errands and house stuff that I had been ignoring.  Got back to work in my garage at lunch time and didn't quit until 9:30 this evening. Good progress on a variety of things.

Installed the rubber trim molding in the door frame openings. Was fairly simple.  I did not glue it in as it seems to stay in place very well. 

Installed the new lock on the bonnet. Needed a bit of fettling to get it to fit properly, but it all worked out fine. I test fit the rear engine deck lid to see if the hinges line up.  They will needs a small adjustment, but no major issues.

I had two major projects that I wanted to get done.  Finish wiring the car and installing the 8" springs on the front coil over shocks.  The shocks won as I just could not spend the rest of the day upside down finishing the wiring inside the car in this heat. 

Spent most of the afternoon and into early evening removing the shocks, compressing the springs to remove them (my friend Chris made me a great custom spring compressor.  Best device I have ever had for this purpose.  You should sell these Chris!) and then re-install them.  I needed help on the right side holding the shock in place while I hammered the large bolt through the A arms and chassis suspension point from the inside of the car. My wife came out to help me (commenting how heavy the shock is......really?) and everything got installed. I put the grease caps on the ends of the hub.  Installed the plastic Lotus center wheel caps and made a holding bracket that is screwed to the cap to make sure they don't come off (My friend Bruce came up with that design.  I copied it).

Safety wired the rear of the shift tube pin and the two axle shaft pins.

Lowered the car back on the ground to see the stance with the new shorter springs.  Exactly what I was hoping for.  Needs some fine tuning but I'll do that once the car is on the road and settles in.

Need to finish the wiring early this week and install the carpeting.  And a long list of other things.......


Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Dan C 2624R on Sunday,August 04, 2019, 07:56:52 PM
Glenn,  Yes a hot and sticky day in NJ.  Progress made though.  I do want to say the Black Center caps do look good on the Alloy wheels.  I did not get the anodized ones, just the Aluminum.  Wonder if Ray will work an exchange if he has any left.  I have some parts to order so I think I'll bring it up.  Dan
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,August 04, 2019, 08:07:40 PM
Dan, I bought the grey plastic ones from RD and painted them black.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,August 04, 2019, 08:16:21 PM
Exciting stuff, Certified! It starts to look more and more like a car! Hopefully, you'll get your door back soon and finish the doors so you can get on to other pressing issues.

Keep up the good work and try not to worry about the heat so much. After all, you could be in New Orleans or Houston!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Monday,August 05, 2019, 04:47:46 AM
I did the alinement on my Europa. Using my 4 post lift that I have totally leveled and 4 alumina angles that I use to make a square box around the car. I can then use a Caliper to get the car and all the wheels square and parallel. It worked great on my Europa and Elan.
If you want to bring it over we can set up your car!

 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,August 05, 2019, 04:58:38 AM
I did the alinement on my Europa. Using my 4 post lift that I have totally leveled and 4 alumina angles that I use to make a square box around the car. I can then use a Caliper to get the car and all the wheels square and parallel. It worked great on my Europa and Elan.
If you want to bring it over we can set up your car!

I will take you up on that offer Bruce! Thanks.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,August 07, 2019, 06:56:16 AM
Have been putting in the hours after work each day to keep things moving on reassembly. Seems everything needs some type of custom work. Of course a portion of that is just me as I have in my mind how the car should be reassembled and take the time to do it right.

Started the final electrical connections of everything in the engine bay after tracing all the color coded wiring and confirming the connection points. A couple of non OEM wires have forced me to trace to the connection point under the dash......but most of it went fairly easily. Replaced all the plastic wire harness holds with aluminum rubber coated.   I had a large wiring diagram printed that is easy to read while working on the car.  No need to stop and go to the bench to squint at the factory manual wiring diagram.

I clean the OEM wires with lacquer thinner to get off dirt and grime and then spray all the contacts with CRC contact cleaner before connecting.

The OEM fuel tanks had a spade plug soldered to the tank for the ground connections. The new aluminum tanks don't have this "feature" so I had to drill one of the mounting brackets (Note: do this with the tanks out, not after they are installed like I did) on each tank to bolt in a spade plug to connect the ground wires. Note the tight fit to install the lock nuts, surgical tools needed again! Anytime I make wire or repair a connector I always solder the connection and shrink wrap it.  No crimp connectors on my builds!

The negative battery ground strap need to be connected to a chassis bolt.  In order to insure a good clean ground I wirewheeled the paint off on the part of the chassis where the washer covers. Don't just assume the bolt going thru the hole will be enough of a ground point.

I went to wire the new gear reduction started and noticed that one small corner touches the exhaust pipe. There wasn't any way to move the pipe in the right position so I took the starter out and filed the corner down to create some clearance. I know you can rotate these in different directions, it just so happens that any rotation wouldn't have given me the right clearance on one side or the other. Tight fit.

The choke cable on this car had been butchered at the carb end so I needed to buy a new cable. Unfortunately no-one seems to sell the cable length needed for a Europa that has the OEM knob.  So I ordered the right length cable from RD Ent. and cut off the knob they supply then filed down the end of the metal receiver for the OEM knob to allow for a flat surface and drilled out the old pressed in wire and silver soldered the new wire in place. Now I have a brand new choke cable with the OEM knob. Will do same with the heater control cable.

Installed the hold down bolts for the engine area storage box on the chassis cross bar.  Asked my friend Roman how his was configured and he was kind enough to send me detailed photos of his install which I copied.

Put the front bonnet on and looked at the stance of the front of the car.  I now have it lowered to a point where I need to jack up the car with my hydraulic racing jack to put the lift points under the body.  It's a pain to do that, but I have the same issue with my Elan S1 so I'm used to it.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Wednesday,August 07, 2019, 07:24:51 AM
If only the original manufactured cars had this level of quality and attention to detail, there might be more of them still around!  :beerchug:
Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Wednesday,August 07, 2019, 11:08:20 AM
Thanks for the choke numbers and instructions. I’ll put it on my parts list . I also see the mounts for the rear tray I’ll need to make. I still need to mount my wiring diagram like you mentioned. It definitely beats tracing it on a tablet or my phone.
 Try using rubbing alcohol on the wires it won’t melt the plastic as much. I also doesn’t evaporate as fast.
 Looking great ,
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,August 08, 2019, 05:53:33 AM
Thanks for the continued moral support guys. I've been putting in some long evenings to keep the progress going. It's slow and methodical but I'm not going to rush anything.

Picked up my refinished door from Dave's shop.  Big shout out to Dave for turning the repair work around in 2 days.  Looks great and as always does a very professional job. He even fiber glassed some cracks in my luggage box for me. Thanks again Dave!

Most of my work last night was the boring stuff. Making wiring extensions (I moved the brake pressure sensor and had to make longer wires), putting shrink wrap tubing on old connectors to make a better weather seal, installing aluminum wiring harness hold downs, wrapping wiring harness with black covering material to make a clean install, etc. etc. 

Cleaned the center console with "Back to Black".  Also repaired a crack on one side of the console by reinforcing the back of the plastic with a piece of plastic superglued to make sure the crack doesn't open up again.

Drilled out the spring steel wire inside of the OEM heater knob so I can solder the new steel cable in. File the end of the steel cable holder flat so you can center punch it for accurate drilling.  Broke a few 1/16th bits along the way as spring steel is very hard. Use oil while drilling. A drill press is a must. Cannot do this with a hand held drill.

The next step is carpet install.  I've got all the interior wiring and control cables routed that goes under the carpet so I should be ready.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,August 08, 2019, 06:47:24 AM
Great stuff, Certified! She is really coming together and your not hurrying will yield huge dividends!

I think it's pretty cool to have original heater and choke knobs! I still have my heater knob but lost my choke knob long ago and wanted a matching choke knob (I think I finally found where they can be had) but then my carbs are for a front engine car so hooking up a choke cable is not a trivial matter so it's deleted and my garage door opener sits there.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,August 10, 2019, 03:51:12 AM
Left side door install day. I laid out the table for working on the door along with all the associated parts to assemble the exterior door handle, lock, window motor, inside door handle & locking device, the several rails and special clips (several were broken) and the door hinge pin system.

Bruce was coming over to help (Thank goodness, there is no way to do this install alone) and while I was waiting for him I put the car on the lift and installed two rubber grommets' in the chassis holes where the heater and choke cables go thru. I had forgotten to install those and didn't want to forget again.   Tough location to reach after the car is assembled, so remember to do this when the chassis of off the body.

Bruce arrived in his Elan S2 (Great sports car driving day) and we set about installing everything in the door. Of course it all take hours......  The exterior door handle needed fettling as there was new fiberglass installed where the door handle had pulled out. And then we had to install the motor (that was easy) and the control rods that operate everything (that was hard).  I had bought new clips for the control rods and they were such a tight fit you couldn't snap them in place with your fingers. Had to use pliers.........in a space that isn't meant for a pair of pliers.  And then the dock locking mechanism was being difficult.  Bruce kept at it while I moved to the installed door to install the new clips.  We were both doing the same thing on two different doors grumbling “no wonder they could only build 5 cars a day at the Lotus factory”.

Larry stopped by to see what progress had been made since he helped with the rear window installation. He was very surprised how much had been done and thought I would only be a couple of days from finishing. Yes, I thought so too, but no way I would make it to New Hope on Sunday. He agreed. 

Bruce and I went to lunch and stopped by the local Ace hardware store (they have a great bolt department) to pick up some stainless steel washers.  I thought the bottom hinge of the door could use an extra washer (three instead of two) but didn't had the right size in stock at home.

Back at my garage we prepped for the door hinge install. Taped the opening area of the door, test fit the pin in the bobbins, greased the inside of the bobbins, the SS pin, the SS washers (to hold them in place) and the inside of the SS door receivers.  As I had done this all before on the right door last week I figured this would be a breeze. I would be wrong.

I wont go into all the gory details but ..........Two and one half hours later we stood back to admire our work and remove the masking tape from the body. Yup, looks great but can't close the door all the way because the new rubber door molding forces the door to be too proud. 

I was running very late for a planned dinner at a local restaurant and had to say thanks and goodbye to Bruce quickly. I have to tell you, got to appreciate good friends who come to help get your Lotus back together!  Really appreciate it Bruce!

While driving to the restaurant my wife say's "you and Bruce where in the garage for almost 10 hours today and all you got done was one door?" Yes dear.  "I just don't understand how you guys are so passionate about these cars".  Yup, neither do I..........  I just need a drink.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Saturday,August 10, 2019, 05:29:08 AM
   As always your story of the processes we go through, as well as professionals,  deal with to assemble correctly an item are out standing. I always think to myself , I’m the one who is warranting this...🤔 Doings things twice takes even longer.
 Aside from the interior and operational testing it looks nearly complete. Now it’s time to write a book!
Dakazman



Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,August 10, 2019, 05:43:49 AM
That really is great progress! Maybe your Europa will be the only rain tight one out there!

I see you posted about possible solutions to your sealing problem on another thread but I thought I'd give your my thoughts here. Stuff like rubber seals probably goes through small dimensional changes over time. Check out Steele Rubber Products (https://www.steelerubber.com/). You might be able to find seals that are a LITTLE smaller or have a slightly thinner section than the ones you have. You might call Ray to see if he has any ideas. You might try Dave Bean.

I don't remember where I got mine but they fit alright but they are not rain tight. I found some hollow stick-on seals at Lowes that I put on the raised part around the window and now things stay dry inside. I guess the moral of the story might be to happy with a seal that is a little too small and customize. Good luck!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Saturday,August 10, 2019, 11:07:33 AM
I spent 8 hours today on the RH door of 3089R today, and it is half done.

The interior trim, dashboard, carpet and doors are all very slow progress.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,August 10, 2019, 11:18:49 AM
It's good (to me anyway) that I'm not the only one who could spend hours and hours aligning a door so it would be close enough to only need to spend hours and hours more to get it nearly right!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Saturday,August 10, 2019, 11:45:04 AM
  Boy , I can’t wait to hang mine now.🤪
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Lou Drozdowski on Saturday,August 10, 2019, 11:53:11 AM
Sorry to hear some rain on your parade. I encountered the same issue with the door seals. After much frustrations with the door being too proud and stiff to close properly, I would suggest another supplier to the door seals.

Ray's were too big for the bulb section...too much material.
Banks, were better and with some selective slices on the inner weld, seemed to make them fold over better at the leading edge where the sill and foot well arch meet.
McMaster Carr is another source, they have various dimensions of bulb sizes.

Tech tip...draw in your striker a little, this will compress the bulb quicker to take a memory.
You can always readjust later.

 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,August 10, 2019, 01:11:44 PM
4129R, glad to hear I’m not the only one spending countless hours reassembling the doors.

Lou and BDA, there is no way the RD molding is going to compress enough. Luckily I saved the original moldings and will re-install those until I find an exact copy or something very close to them. The hunt is on!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Lou Drozdowski on Saturday,August 10, 2019, 02:25:45 PM
https://www.mcmaster.com/rubber-seals

Start here...have fun
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,August 10, 2019, 04:08:38 PM
This might also be a good place to look: https://www.steelerubber.com/push-on-weatherstrip-seal
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Saturday,August 10, 2019, 04:31:49 PM
This might also be a good place to look: https://www.steelerubber.com/push-on-weatherstrip-seal

 This is a great vendor . Dealt with them years ago and funny thing is two weeks ago ordered their catalog.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,August 11, 2019, 06:19:03 AM
See my detailed response in the Door Seals topic. I think I found a suitable solution. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,August 11, 2019, 06:43:01 AM
I spent a fair amount of time yesterday trying to figure out the door seal issue, which hopefully I have resolved. But it took hours of valuable rebuild time and I didn't get as much done as I wanted.  Here is what got accomplished:

Riveted the left door ID plate in.

Installed the new Sebring plastic chrome mirror. I had also ordered the optional mirror base that raises the mirror to increase viewing area, but I haven't installed it yet until I drive the car on the road and determine if I really need it.

Silver soldered the OEM heater knob to the new spring steel cable.  Then routed it to the proper location, measured, cut and installed.

Installed the new choke cable, cut off the excess cable housing and trimmed the cable to length.  In order to install the cable into the weber carb choke cable receptacle, you need to trim 1/2" of the plastic sheath off to insert into the hold down block and tighten the screw.  I also trimmed a piece of cable sheath for the second carb and installed.

There are two switches on the dash board that were faded and I had decided to leave them that way to add a bit of the classic "this is an old sports car" feel.  It's been bothering me that they are the only switches that are faded so I will be dyeing them black. Before photos show the condition now, will update when I have finished them.


Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,August 11, 2019, 06:53:03 AM
I see your Webers are for a front engine too (maybe they all are?). How long a choke cable did you need? Who knows, maybe one day I'll hook up mine!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,August 11, 2019, 07:27:16 AM
BDA, I think the carbs are all that way. RD sells a 71” cable that is too long by 6 inches, but the ones Moss Motors sells are too short. So I bought the RD cable, soldered on my OEM knob and cut to size.

I could have bought a cable and sheath from a bike shop (much cheaper) but the sheath is made differently and I didn’t know how well it would hold up in an automotive environment. I have bought SS braided cable from bike shops, that works just fine.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Sunday,August 11, 2019, 08:37:57 AM
When I replaced my choke cable, I used a bike cable and drilled the knob with a 3/32 drill and tapped it with a 4-40 tap and set screwed the cable and  filed the head of the screw off.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,August 11, 2019, 09:23:25 AM
Thanks, Bruce & Certified! Something to think about...
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Lou Drozdowski on Sunday,August 11, 2019, 11:00:02 AM
Glen, Get some Brasso polish to liven up those switches.

They were originally made of bakealite, a phenol based resin cured as a form of early plastic. I was told by an old friend to use brake fluid and a cotton swab, which works buts, fades after a few weeks.

Brasso is a fine metal polish, however it is recommended for bakealite and will bring back the luster and color.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,August 11, 2019, 09:13:55 PM
Thanks for the tip Lou. I have this bottle of "Great Knobs" that I have been using for years.  It's a dye that make old knobs look new after two coats and lasts forever.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,August 11, 2019, 09:32:18 PM
Slow progress again today.  I went to the New Hope auto show to see what cars where there and ended up talking to all my Lotus friends for several hours.  I really needed a break anyway. But got back into the garage late afternoon.

Spent the morning (before going to the car show) measuring the door moldings and researching what might fit. That took most of the morning.
This afternoon I was focused on the last parts of the interior wiring I hadn't finished. I was not able to figure out the wiring for the seat belts and posted a question to find out who had the answer. Dan was thorough and spotted a photo I had posted many months ago that showed the wiring and how it was connected. Assembled everything and finished that part. Thanks again Dan!  Really helped me out. BDA provided a detailed schematic of how to remove the circuit. I just might do that after I  have everything operating and the car running.

Painted a coat of "Great Knobs" on my two switches that had faded.  This black dye works miracles and I have used it before. It's my go-to product for faded knobs and switches.

Inserted the wiring for the doors.  This wiring operates the electric window lifts.  Need to feed one wire with connector one at a time to be able to run all three wires into the tube.

Since I have almost all the engine-bay work completed I figured it was time to put my rear deck lid on and attach the hinges and gas struts.  Needed my beautiful assistant and she was more than willing to come out to the garage to help and catch up on the progress. She did say it looks almost done. Phew. I hope so.......

This coming week is make or break.  I need to have the Europa on the road by the end of the week to do a few days of shake down driving and adjusting before I can even consider driving this to LOG. I'm down to the wire to make this happen. 

Order a spare tire this evening, new door seals from the UK and color coded wire from British wiring as I had run out.  Yup, down to the wire  :FUNNY:
 

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,August 11, 2019, 09:46:44 PM
.... Yup, down to the wire  :FUNNY:

You and Gavin should be ashamed of yourselves!  :)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Monday,August 12, 2019, 12:28:25 AM
.... Yup, down to the wire  :FUNNY:

You and Gavin should be ashamed of yourselves!  :)

BDA, are you trying to amp up a "Dad joke" competition.  ;D

P.S. Car is looking really good Certified.
Sometimes taking a break is the best thing for the project as well as yourself.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Sandyman on Monday,August 12, 2019, 04:35:41 AM
Cert, is that rear deck strut system from RD? Shocking how close you are with finishing the wiring.  :FUNNY: "grandfather joke" We are all pulling for you yo finish.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Monday,August 12, 2019, 05:08:46 AM
After helping Glen all day with the Europa, on the way home I need to stop and take a short brake.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,August 12, 2019, 05:13:15 AM
Thanks for all the continued support guys! I know I’m close but it only takes one thing to bring it all to a dead stop. I’ve prepped my Elan S1 just in case (I know, don’t curse it).

The engine deck lid gas strut system was copied from an OEM bracket. My friend Roman had one out of a TC Europa and let me borrow it to make a copy. Then all I did was order gas struts from McMaster.

My day job is calling me. Time to go back to reality......
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,August 12, 2019, 05:15:05 AM
After helping Glen all day with the Europa, on the way home I need to stop and take a short brake.

That’s a great photo Bruce! Thanks again for the full day of help getting the left door on. Want to come back this week for another day of fun and Europa assembly?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,August 13, 2019, 08:33:43 AM
Squeezing in an hour here and an hour there during the work week. Early mornings or late evenings just to get the easy but time consuming things done.

The horn button for my non-standard steering wheel had a very faded Lotus logo on it. Was kind of period cool, but it was too faded and I just happened to have a vinyl Lotus logo just the right size to replace it......so I did.

Laid out the interior padding for the carpet kit. Wanted to make sure I understood what went where and what holes I needed to cut before I glued it down

The firewall carpet is glued to a piece of fiberboard.  The OEM one was in decent shape although the carpet was faded.  I originally was going to scrape off the old carpet and glue the new one down when I decided it would be just as much work to remove the carpet and prep the fiberboard as it would be to make a new one. Besides, the original one is good for someone else's restoration who is completely missing this piece.

I cut a piece of 1/4 plywood from some stock I had and then traced the carpet pattern onto it. Cut out the areas that needed it with a jigsaw, glued the padding to the plywood and then the carpet to the padding.  Installed a new interior light (from RD Ent.) Connected the power to the light and installed the carpeted firewall panel.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,August 13, 2019, 09:39:32 AM
Nice fabrications !
  It’s not only looking great ,but your probably finding a lot more room in your home.  :FUNNY:
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Tuesday,August 13, 2019, 09:41:01 AM
The later models have a map box attached to that ply panel. The original wood sheet was hardboard which seems to warp quite easily, but is cheaper than ply.

I glued my carpet to the ply about 2 weeks ago.

I just need to find my new interior lights. I put them in a safe place.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,August 13, 2019, 09:49:50 AM
I just need to find my new interior lights. I put them in a safe place.

I hope you're not like me. When I put something in a safe place, or the best place so that I'll be able to find it later, I never see it again! It's better for me to leave it out and have to move it or trip over it ten times a day till I need it!  :FUNNY:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Dan C 2624R on Tuesday,August 13, 2019, 10:55:04 AM
Glen, 

Regarding the "fiberboard backing in decent shape", I would like to take you up on the offer and use yours as a template.  Mine is toast and worthless, so it will be a help.  I'll sent a PM note to set something up.

Dan.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,August 13, 2019, 11:09:16 AM
I just need to find my new interior lights. I put them in a safe place.

I hope you're not like me. When I put something in a safe place, or the best place so that I'll be able to find it later, I never see it again! It's better for me to leave it out and have to move it or trip over it ten times a day till I need it!  :FUNNY:

Yep , been there! :FUNNY:
I just put the wiring print sheets under our formal dining room mat . This will remind me....
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,August 13, 2019, 12:35:31 PM
Can’t tell you how many times I have out smarted myself and put something where “I know I’ll find it” only not to be able to locate it later on. I’ve learned to be a lot more organized.

Dan, the firewall back board is yours. Now you just need to pick it up (before I forget where I put it).
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,August 14, 2019, 03:44:50 AM
Focused on the interior last night. Glued down the padding and then placed all the carpet sections in place (dry, no glue yet) to understand the overlaps and what needed to be glued down first and in what order. Plus there is lots of custom cutting for seat belt bolts, seat rail bolts and throttle cable.

I realized the black vinyl along the bottom of the rear window is supposed to be tucked into the window molding.  That took hours and you need to do this with the seat belt retractors OUT as you cant get to the curved section of the window with them in. I wasn't taking the sealt belt retractors out as they took hours to install so I'll figure out a workaround later.

One of the things I was concerned about was the door seal fitting over the carpet edge.  Cut a piece of door molding to test and found out there is no problem.  Good, one less thing to worry about.

Installed the sun visors I had recovered. Test fit the vinyl strips along the windscreen pillar.  I had saved the original pieces as they were in good condition. I'm glad I did as the contour of these pieces are important to fit.

One of the things I need to make is the trim piece above the rear window. When I removed the OEM piece it came apart in pieces.  I saved most of the pieces to make a template as there are notches in it for the air vents above the window.  Will look in an art supply store or Loews for the material as it is some type of coated cardboard.

Adjusted the rear engine deck lid and locking mechanism.

Tic Tock.....time is getting short to finish the restoration in time for LOG.  I'm taking off work today to focus on getting the engine started.  Need to wire the electric fuel pump, connect the radiator thermostat, wire the petronic distributor, wire the tachometer that was converted for electronic distributor, put fuel into the tanks and see if I can get it running.  I have asked Larry to come over to help as he has so much knowledge of sports cars that there isn't anything he can't figure out. Good to have someone like that to help. 

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4129R on Wednesday,August 14, 2019, 05:34:51 AM
Focused on the interior last night. Glued down the padding and then placed all the carpet sections in place (dry, no glue yet) to understand the overlaps and what needed to be glued down first and in what order.

Rear floor where seat runners go.
Rear bottom bulkhead behind seat.
Panel below door.
Panel rear up to seat belt.
Side panel in front of door.
Side panel to footwell
End panel to footwell.
Round bit to raised part of footwell, overlaps.
Front floor removable mat, leave unglued for cleaning.
Repeat for other side.
Centre bit over tunnel.
Rear panel on board below rear window.

To lip the carpet under the door seal, use a thin filling knife or putty knife to lift the seal as you go.   
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,August 14, 2019, 02:11:38 PM
Thanks 4129R. That helps a lot!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Dan C 2624R on Wednesday,August 14, 2019, 06:27:32 PM
Glen,  Glad I was able to stop by today and see the car up close and personal.  It looks GREAT.  I'm just sorry I couldn't help more than I did.  I appreciate the panel and the light.  Keep Chipping away at the to-do list and I'm sure you'll have a great drive in it to LOG.

Dan
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,August 14, 2019, 08:23:12 PM
Long day but lots accomplished.  Larry came over in the morning and we discussed the list I had made on what I was hoping to get accomplished today. Reviewed each area and decided on how we were going to go about each step and who was doing what.  I got to work inside the car upside-down and under the dash to wire the tach to the coil, make the connections for the electric fuel pump along with a remote on/off switch and generally trace wires and connect more grounds.

Dan arrived while we where in the midst of things (he came to collect the firewall carpeted panel I offered to give him for his Europa restoration).  Dan jumped right in and help diagnose and hand me tools while I was squashed in the car.

We ran wiring and tested circuits.  Double checked our work and prepped everything for trying to get the motor to start.  Dan had to leave and Larry and I went to lunch.

When we returned went to try and turn on the electric fuel pump. Wouldn't run. Took a few minutes to realize it was a bad ground. Once I rectified that problem the fuel pump started right up. Good. Turned the engine over to build up oil pressure.

Time to add some fuel. I had gone to the gas station earlier in the morning and got 10 gallons of 93 octane gas. Poured the fuel into both tanks, let the electric fuel pump fill the carbs, pump the throttle a couple of times and turned the key to activate the starter.

Mission control, we have a launch!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLPOCwKO4YM

The engine started right up and had a nice idle.  There was a slight exhaust leak, but that was from the collection tube clamps not being tight enough. Easy fix.

Shut the engine off and filled the cooling system with antifreeze nice and slow.  I had opened the vent on the top of the radiator and the entire system filled in about 30 minutes without issue.  23 pints.

Restarted the engine and watched the swirl pot to see if any air bubbles appeared.  All good. Oil pressure, amp meter, engine temp, fuel gauage all working. Let the engine run for a while to warm up and then shut it off.

Larry left and I continued connecting wiring in the front area of the bonnet and organizing the wiring layout. Made a custom bracket for the electric fuel pump switch and installed it. Ted stopped by and we talked about the work that got done over the last couple of weeks. I asked him about how the spare tire gets stored in the front of the car and Ted pointed out that my air horns are in the way.  Will need to relocate those.

Tomorrow is bleeding the brake system and more wiring connections.



Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Dan C 2624R on Wednesday,August 14, 2019, 08:38:11 PM
That is GREAT.  So sorry I missed it. Dan
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,August 15, 2019, 07:08:28 AM
That HAS to feel really GOOD! Congratulations!  :beerchug:

I think we can say with some confidence, "Have a great time at the LOG!"
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,August 16, 2019, 05:19:01 AM
The plan was to bleed the brake lines and adjust the rear drum brakes. It's good to have a plan......even if it doesn't get completed.

Larry came over to help.  The left rear hub had a stud that wasn't seated correctly as it was crooked inside the aluminum wheel opening. We pulled the hub, took out all the studs (they were not OEM) and replaced with all new ones.  Reinstalled the hub and then put Loctite on the spline and torqued the retaining nut to 150 lbs and bent the washer over the nut.  Did same with the right side.

I have found that pressurizing and bleeding an entire brake circuit from empty is a two person job.  We made little canisters to hang off each axle and installed clear tubing to each bleed nipple. Poured a little brake fluid in each canister and then filled the master cylinder reservoir.  I got in the car and started pumping. Took longer than we expected to pressurize the system and get the air out and as we were closing off the bleed nipples the left front caliper started leaking. Uh oh.

Larry looked at me and said "did you split the caliper?  You never split the caliper".  To which I replied, that's an old saying as it used to be that you couldn't get the special rubber seal that fits between the caliper halves.  And yes I split the calipers because I wanted to completely rebuild them.  And I installed the correct size rubber seal.

Larry went about removing the LF caliper and taking it apart while I installed the seat belt brackets from the inner wheel well to the top of the shock mount. When I got back to the work bench Larry had everything apart and was trying to figure out where the leak was coming from. He traced it to one of the pistons and pulled it out. Yup, when I rebuilt these I must have torn a seal when installing new pistons as there was a rip in the seal that fits inside the piston cavity. I didn't have another rebuild kit in the garage so I called RD Ent. and spoke with George who shipped one out for delivery the next day. Larry went home and I went about my other things to complete (its a long list).

If you have been following my restoration you know that I seem to jump around on different projects that aren't connected. There is a reason for this. I try and pick one major job each time I work on the car and a couple of minor ones. I know the minor ones will typically get completed and there is a strong sense of accomplishment. The major projects don't always get completed the same day and you walk away thinking I need to finish this vs look what I did.

When I had the windshield installed, I noticed the top corner moldings sit proud of the body and the trim. It flexed and had a gap that I didn't like. I had been thinking about this for a while and knew what I wanted to do. Taped off the molding and the body around the gap, filled with black silicone sealant and let cure. Removed the tape and admired the finished look and no longer flexible corner molding. Will do same for bottom ones another time.

There is a piece of trim across the top of the inside rear window that I had removed when dismantling the car.  I am very careful during disassembly not to break anything as lots of parts are unobtainable. But this trim piece came apart in pieces. I had saved all the pieces for reference to making a new one. Looking closely at it, it had the vinyl pattern on one side and a cardboard backing on the other.  Drove over to my local auto interior shop I use and showed the owner the piece. He had the black vinyl in stock and cut me a piece 60 inches long (I need 48") and gave me a scrap piece of upholstery board to make the trim backing.  All free and took everything home to work on another time.

The time has come to permanently install the interior carpeting. I had dry fit all the pieces, gotten sage advise from 4129R about the assembly sequence (which for my carpet kits wasn't exactly correct).  I knew this would be a several hour job and waited until it got dark and cooler outside. Turned on my big fan, positioned it towards the door opening and went about spraying adhesive to the fiberglass or already installed matting for each piece of carpet. First I would spray the area that the carpet was going to be fitted and then I sprayed (outside and attached to a stand with a large clip on it) the carpet backing. Being careful not to touch anything with the adhesive on the carpet backing I would position and press into place the carpet (this is known as dry mounting, putting adhesive on both sides before installing).

Here is what I found out about the Europa carpet kit from Automat.  It's nicely trimmed and most of the pieces are the correct dimensions. The lower back firewall carpet could have been wider for an overlap seam or the tunnel carpet could have been a little longer. I will need to order a few small pieces of the same carpet to fill in a gap or two.  The installation sequence should be as follows:  Install all the side pieces first starting that the front of the foot well. You want to make sure the overlap seams are all facing forward so your feet don't rip the seams when you enter the car.  Then install the floor carpet as it over lay's on the side pieces and makes for a nice clean install. You will need to make various cuts for the throttle cable, speedo cable, door courtesy light switches and seat belt bolts. Just have a razor blade handy and slice the areas you need to have an opening. 

It took me 5 hours to do the complete install plus gluing the OEM vinyl trim onto the windscreen pillars (you will note in the photos I taped the area so I could spray adhesive without getting it all over the interior). I had already installed and glued down the matting, that took and additional 2 hours.

Overall the carpet kit looks nice, but if I were to do it again I would bring the car to a professional upholstery shop and let them do the installation with larger pieces vs the smaller trimmed pieces as if you look closely you can see the entire interior was pieced together vs seamless.  But the Automat kit and my labor was far cheaper than having an upholstery shop do it (by thousands of dollars).

By the way, I did get glue on the carpet. I need to figure out how to remove it without ruining the carpet.

As I was installing the rear firewall panel I must have knocked the plastic cover off the top seat belt retractor because all of a sudden there was a spring steel all over the corner of the car.  Figures. Something else to do that wasn't on my list.......

I had a beer (it was midnight) and slowly rewound the spring placing it carefully inside the plastic cap. Then I carefully connected to the spindle coming out of the seat belt reel making sure the spring edge was inside the slit in the spindle. Snapped the cap back on and tried the retractor. It works but needs some adjustment. Will do that another day.  I'm exhausted.

My new door seals arrived from the UK, will install those this week and realign the doors (again!)

As I was shutting down for the night I noticed a nice lime green bug was sitting on my rear engine deck lid. Wonder how long he had been there and if he was inhaling the same adhesive fumes I was all night.......

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Friday,August 16, 2019, 06:13:56 AM
the Lime Green bug loves a yellow car....   my M100 (Norfolk mustard yellow) gets bugs all over it, especially at car shows!!!
so were you high as a kite inhaling those fumes??   goes good right along with Jimmie Hendrix watching over you...
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,August 16, 2019, 06:22:57 AM
I was getting ready to really worry about your retractor. I had mine checked over and rewebbed at Ssnake Oyl (https://www.ssnake-oyl.com). They told me they couldn't do anything with the retractors because they were unlike anything they work with. So they just rewebbed them. So I figured those retractors were pretty much unfixable. Glad it will only be a minor distraction. Hopefully the brake caliper re-rebuild will go smoothly and the door seals go in without issue and everything falls into place!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 1970EuropaGuy on Friday,August 16, 2019, 07:07:57 AM
Great looking bug! Yellow cars attract insects. I'm always amazed how many land on my Europa after a wash.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Friday,August 16, 2019, 09:30:23 AM
By the way, I did get glue on the carpet. I need to figure out how to remove it without ruining the carpet.

Contact adhesive?
"Prepsol" (wax & grease remover) should do it without harming the carpet or leaving a residue but test on a scrap piece of carpet first.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,August 17, 2019, 01:52:30 PM
Thanks again for the support and comments. Nope, didn't get high from the adhesive fumes Ted. (wore a mask and had a big fan running).  Yes I was also worried about the seatbelt retractor BDA, but to wasn't too difficult to fix. 1970EuropaGuy, I remember someone telling me about how yellow cars attract insects. GavinT, I will search for some Prepsol.  Pepboys and Autozone didn't have it.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,August 17, 2019, 02:07:56 PM
My caliper rebuild kits came late Friday afternoon and I called Larry after work to see if he could come over to help with the brakes again. Larry installed the new seal and installed the left caliper while I put wrenches on all the brake line fittings to insure they are all tight. We bled the entire system, got very good pressure and no leaks. Put the wheels/tires back on and lowered the car to the ground.

Started the engine, let it warm up and adjusted the webers.  Put the airbox back on.  While the engine was running I noticed the radiator stay cool for a while and when it did get hot the fan did not go on.  The water temp gauge in the car was reading 110 degrees C and no fan. Shut the engine off and started trouble shooting the electrical connections. For some reason I wasn't getting enough voltage to the fan so I clearly have some wire tracing to do. Larry had to leave and I washed up for dinner.

Later that evening when it got cooler I went back out to the garage to tackle the door seal install.  It took a couple of hours (and a couple of beers) before I got both doors done and some additional trim pieces installed. The seals look like they will fit fine, but I won't really know until I readjust the doors and test with a light how well they will seal.

It was 12:30am by the time I finished. Need some sleep as Chis is coming over in the morning to help realign the doors.


Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,August 17, 2019, 02:18:04 PM
Saturday morning, Chris came over. I was working on wiring so he and I spent the first half of the day tracing wiring and connections. I few things threw us for a loop and couldn't figure it out. Will post a few questions on another post to get some sage advice.

After lunch we tackled the door alignment. Chris worked from the inside and I worked from the outside while we aligned and then tightened down the door hinges. As we had done this before it didn't take too long and we checked for light leaks.  The drivers door has a small light leak along the front windshield edge but everything else looks great. The passenger door is perfect.

Once that was done we went back to wiring trying to understand the issues with the radiator fan not coming on at temperature. I ran out of time to fully trouble shoot as we have company coming. I'm hopeful with some advise from forum members I can figure this out and resolve tomorrow.

I told myself that if I didn't have the Europa on the road by Sunday I wouldn't drive it to LOG.  Tick Tock..........

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,August 17, 2019, 06:37:41 PM
Man, that door alignment is a thing of beauty!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Saturday,August 17, 2019, 09:34:28 PM
GavinT, I will search for some Prepsol.  Pepboys and Autozone didn't have it.
G’day, Certified,

“Prepsol” is the common brand name used in Oz, but I expect a generic wax & grease remover would be the same stuff.
I’m surprised it was difficult to find. Any place that sells auto paint will undoubtedly have it (probably in a can).

Perhaps your go-to brand is “Dupli-Color”?
Dupli-Color has the same stuff but in an aerosol can which might be handy for your job.


Dupli-Color Prep Spray, 11 oz.

https://www.pepboys.com/dupli-color-prep-spray-11-oz-/product/9865727

https://www.autozone.com/sandpaper-and-body-repair-tools/body-repair-and-accessories/duplicolor-paint-prep-spray-grease-and-wax-remover-11oz/963232_0
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Sunday,August 18, 2019, 05:19:32 PM
well?????   I'm on the edge of my seat here....it's Sunday night...….what's the verdict????
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,August 18, 2019, 05:45:55 PM
I'm anxious to find out too, Certified, but I didn't want to distract you. Maybe we should start a pool!

I hope it's good news!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,August 18, 2019, 07:13:11 PM
I’m very close but still in the garage finishing up. I have the ash tray installed  :FUNNY:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,August 18, 2019, 07:18:37 PM
 I say, if the ashtray is installed, you're ready!  ;D
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,August 19, 2019, 04:18:17 AM
Thanks for the research Gavin. I’ll pick up some Dupli-Color prep spray.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Monday,August 19, 2019, 05:49:04 AM
just like my daughter had her baby this week (and didn't know the baby's sex) until birth......I think i'll do the same with certified when I come up Thursday morning to leave for LOG39 road trip.   Then i'll find out if he's driving the Europa or the Elan.   :FUNNY:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,August 19, 2019, 06:13:35 AM
Stopped working on the Europa at 2am this morning.  Could have kept going but I have a day job to attend to and I need a little sleep to be coherent........

Full day on Sunday. Took my new spare tire and aluminum wheel to NTB for mounting and balancing.  Now that I'm this far along on completing the restoration I'm fairly confident that I'll have the car ready for the LOG39 road trip.

Dan stopped by later in the morning arriving on his massive Honda Gullwing. Nice bike Dan!  He wanted to return the interior light I gave him that was original to the car as he felt bad that I melted the new one I installed. Thanks Dan, that was very considerate of you.

Spent most of the day chasing wiring issues. Added a bunch of new grounds which resolved most of the problems I was having. The turn signal lights are acting strange. The left signal blinks very slowly, like every three to four seconds. The right no blinking, just on. Need to figure that one out. Also have not been able to figure out where the ground wire inside the door for the electric motor goes. It has a small ring connector on it and it fits under a small bolt, I just don't know which one. Both motors have small bolts holding them together but they are sealed. Anyone have a picture of the exact location of these ground wires?  I finally go the radiator fan working. Also installed an extra switch circuit so I can turn the fan on manually if necessary (its an expensive engine, just being super safe about possible overheating).

My wife came out to the garage see how I was doing.  I've been putting in massive hours on this rebuild and she is amazed at my focus.  Of course she stepped up and took hold of the soldering iron to help with the wiring  :pirate:

Finished most of the interior  (except the door panels).  Chris helped me bring down the Europa seats from the garage attic on Saturday.  That's when I realized I forgot the electroplate the seat runners I had previously media blasted.  Even though the seats were stored in a dry area for almost 2 years, the seat runners had surface rust. So I took the runners off, re-media blasted them and then electroplated them.  Before putting back on the seats I sprayed dry graphite on the inside of the tracks to make them operate smoothly.

I did not get to road test the car on Sunday. Had a bunch of opportunities but was worried that I would want to drive longer than I should and not get the rest of my work done. Will do a road test later today. Just need to install the review mirror  :beerchug:

Tick tock...........  LOG39 looks very possible (although I'm a day late with my self imposed schedule)

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Monday,August 19, 2019, 06:25:47 AM
my turn signals have the same symptoms when I first start the car.....until the alternator is revved up and charging, the voltage is too low and my signals blink VERY slow or just stay on.    Never did anything about it, except to make sure I revved the engine early when starting the car, then all seems fine after that.    So maybe a low voltage issue?   check that alternator is charging 13-14 volts.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Pfreen on Monday,August 19, 2019, 07:04:46 AM
The electric window ground goes under one of the the motor assembly mounting bolts to the door.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,August 19, 2019, 07:19:16 AM
I have never had the voltage issue Ted described and that might be the problem but my thought was since all the turn signals share a flasher, that there might be a difference in draw between the right and left sides. Are you using LEDs anywhere? Are you using the stock flasher? I seem to remember playing with different flashers to get the blinking frequency I wanted (I have no idea why the original flasher with standard incandescent bulbs would have been a problem  :confused:).

As for the window motor ground, I just put it under one of the mounting bolts for the motor. I'll get you a picture.

Can't wait for your first drive report!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,August 19, 2019, 09:08:08 AM
Some signal flashers have a load dependant flashing rate.  They have a bimetallic strip that heats up when the signals are connected, breaks the contact, cool and then remake the contact.  Bright, hi-watt bulbs mean a fast flash rate while low-watt/led bulbs mean a slow (or no) flash rate.  Other flashers are not load dependant and flash at the same rate regardless (Tridon HD12 and HD13 for example).  If one side flashes at a slower rate it means it has a different load.  So: different bulbs, poor connections, poor ground, etc.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Monday,August 19, 2019, 10:12:17 AM
Glad you put in some crazy hours!

Window motors, PFreen  nailed it.

Flashers , did you add any dielectric to the sockets,  maybe too much? Bad bulb? Swap sides see if problem follows. Use some jumpers with alligator clips.

Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,August 20, 2019, 05:08:09 AM
my turn signals have the same symptoms when I first start the car.....until the alternator is revved up and charging, the voltage is too low and my signals blink VERY slow or just stay on.    Never did anything about it, except to make sure I revved the engine early when starting the car, then all seems fine after that.    So maybe a low voltage issue?   check that alternator is charging 13-14 volts.

Alternator running at higher speeds didn’t solve the problem. I ordered new flashers. Charging perfectly (I had the alternator rebuilt).
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,August 20, 2019, 05:10:25 AM
The electric window ground goes under one of the the motor assembly mounting bolts to the door.

I finally gave up trying to find a tiny bolt to attach the ground wire to inside of the door. Cut off the terminals, crimped on larger ring terminals and placed on one of the bolts holding the motor in place. Works like a charm.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,August 20, 2019, 05:12:34 AM
Glad you put in some crazy hours!

Window motors, PFreen  nailed it.

Flashers , did you add any dielectric to the sockets,  maybe too much? Bad bulb? Swap sides see if problem follows. Use some jumpers with alligator clips.

Dakazman

Dave, I did spray dielectric but am careful not to go crazy. Bulbs are all brand new and working. Swapped wiring when I couldn’t get the lights to flash. I’ve ordered a new flasher.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,August 20, 2019, 05:54:10 AM
Monday after work I finally took the Europa out of the garage for its first road test after I put the rear view mirror in and adjusted the side mirror.  Drove 6 miles around my home (didn't want to get too far away in case I had to limp home for some reason). Engine runs extremely well and has huge torque, transmission shifts very well (I was worried about this as its fully rebuilt and this is the first time its been used since the rebuild), engine temp is still a bit hot but I think there are two reasons for that. The water pump belt seemed loose to me and I'm guessing its the wrong size and not turning the pump enough plus I reversed the radiator fan blade on the electric motor and reversed the polarity to make it spin as a pusher vs puller. I think I need to put the blades back in its original orientation. Steering is very good and the all the gauges and accessories function. There is a slight clunking sound from the rear of the car that sounds like something hitting the drive shaft u-joints and there is a scraping sound coming from the front wheels when turning.  The clutch is adjusted perfectly (phew) and the brakes work well for brand new pads and shoes that haven't been scrubbed in yet.

My wife was so excited she came out to take pictures of me driving the Europa to send to our son's. She was waiting in the driveway for my return.

Put the car back on the lift. No oil leaks, no brake fluid leaks, no cooling fluid leaks. Check.

Investigated the sound coming from the rear, yup just what I thought. The new grade 8 bolt heads in the upright are just snicking the u-joint metal.  That is just a filing to do.

The front end was more of a surprise. Both inside wheels are scraping the upper a-arms in the same place. That has me wondering and sent me to the shop manual and making a separate posting on this site to get sage advice. After spending an hour reading and checking the confirm I had everything assembled correctly (I did) I decided to sleep on it and work on it in the morning.

Or not. Decided I should do one more job before going to sleep and installed the left interior door panel and associated trim.  Yeah, that took hours and now its 1am in the morning. 

I'm now two days behind on my schedule and wondering if I should be thinking about driving the Europa to LOG.  Looked at one of my Elan's and thought about what I need to do to get one of them ready for a road trip. I'm not giving up yet. Tuesday will tell all.......

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,August 20, 2019, 06:15:40 AM
All in all, it sounds like things are going well, if not quite as quickly or smoothly as you hoped. Congratulations on the first drive with your baby!  :beerchug:

I hope you're able to take it to the LOG!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Dan C 2624R on Tuesday,August 20, 2019, 06:51:08 AM
First Ride.  That is awesome.  No leaks, even better.  I think you are heading to LOG in the car.  Have a great trip.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 1970EuropaGuy on Tuesday,August 20, 2019, 11:41:15 AM
You have a huge smile in the third photo. Looks great!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: seniorchristo on Tuesday,August 20, 2019, 02:49:29 PM
Yes, congratulations Glen!!  ;D and plus 1 on the beer chug :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Tuesday,August 20, 2019, 03:37:39 PM
My advice?  Don't rush to a deadline.  Better to have time to work the bugs out.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,August 20, 2019, 04:54:10 PM
Glen , I saved a copy of all your pics.
 You still have a few days before your journey. Your hours of working are inspiring all of us . Take heed in what JB says. You are a winner in this lotus community and a legend period.
Dave K
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 04:23:42 AM
Appreciate all the complements and the advise. Even though I have put in some huge hours this past month on completing the restoration, it’s mainly because I am careful and detailed oriented while reassembling. Plus I won’t give up the attention to detail and quality of the completed car. (Not mentioning the continuous customization I have done along the way).

This isn’t my first rodeo. It’s my third Lotus fame off project and one additional soft restoration. The last month is always a time killer.

Safety is always the biggest concern. Suspension, brakes, electrical, lights, signals, engine and trans need to operate at spec or better. Anything less is not except-able and I won’t put the car on the road.

Last night I did a 30 mile road test. Pitch black and late enough there was no traffic. I know, you have to be a fool to do another road test in the dark. But I know what I have built and wasn’t worried. The drive was glorious.

One more road test today to confirm longer operating conditions. Except for a few pieces of trim, 2358R is almost done.     
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 05:13:20 AM
S U P E R !!!!!
tomorrow morning, you'll be leading the LOG39 road trip with me right behind drooling and awestruck!   I'll need to wear my sunglasses with that bright new yellow paintwork and chrome!
I'm excited!
 :pirate:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 05:19:09 AM
Thanks Ted, so am I  :pirate: :pirate: :pirate:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: seniorchristo on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 05:41:39 AM
What a fantastic effort Glen! I'm looking forward to our adventure starting tomorrow morning 8)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 05:51:35 AM
Tuesday was important to understand what was going on with my front suspension and the rubbing of the inside of the wheels from the upper control arms (A-Arms).  Larry came over and we talked about what was happening while the car was on the lift and looking at everything. Read the manual a few times, measured everything (camber & Toe) and recognized it was all in spec with the exception that I lowered the car by using 8 inch springs.  Realizing the Bruce had the same issue and bent the ends of the upper control arms and others had added spacers to allow for the clearance of a lowered suspension, I decided on made a few small bends and grinding the metal to shape.

Larry jumped right in and "formed" the new shape of the upper control arms. After our road test and back on the lift to see if the rubbing stopped (it did) I went back with a file and made everything smooth and painted the bare metal black (The devil is in the details).

I was having high temp readings on the temp gauge and couldn't figure out why as the engine was running at the right temp (168 degrees F) as confirmed by the heat sensor I had.  Communicated with Ray at RD and said it could be a bad probe, bad voltage stabilizer or bad ground. Bad ground......that is typical for these cars.  Crawled under the dash (which is getting VERY difficult now that the seats are in) and traced the ground wire to the voltage stabilizer and tested. Yup, it wasn't getting ground. Made a new wire, installed it and the temp and fuel gauge are now both running accurately.

The right side door was giving me problems as I could open from the inside and not the outside. Realized the lock was installed upside down, so Larry worked on the door and I finished installing the trim on the left door (I had to take apart everything I did the night before and put washers behind the internal door opener so it was proud of the door panel to install the black plastic trim piece.  By the time I got done Larry was almost finished and he called it a day.

I then installed the right door trim (I'm smarter now). 

My daily RD Enterprises box arrived with the three flashers I had ordered from Ray. Looked at them all, followed the wiring diagram and decided I would replace the Lucas  flasher first.  Yup, that was the culprit, flashers work perfectly now.

I had been waiting for the car to be close to done to Loctite the interior bolts that hold the axles to the upright.  Removed four from each side and put blue Loctite on them then re-threaded. 

Buttoned up all the wiring in the front bonnet area and removed the air horns as they were in the way of the spare tire (yes I always carry one of those). Will reinstall the air horns at a later date. Got all the wiring harness hangers installed and zip tied the wiring together. Put the jack in and a jack plate (wooden plate for protecting the fiberglass when jacking). Installed the front wire screen in the body opening and bolted in the bonnet.

It was 10:00pm at night. Good time for a road test! Told my wife I was leaving, grabbed my cell phone and took off in the dark. 30 miles later I was back on my garage, car up on the lift looking for any signs of leaks of rubbing. All good.

Once the car was back on the ground I tightened all the bolts for the suspension. Now that the car is lowered, getting underneath was a chore but there is nothing like laying on the concrete floor with a wrench in your hand to show the love you have for your project.

It was midnight. I had a beer to celebrate, took a shower and went to bed.

LOG39 here we come. :trophy:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 06:34:45 AM
Congratulations, Certified! You made it!  :beerchug:

I imagine there may be more satisfaction after spending all those all-nighters to get her finished. Have a great time at the LOG and tell us all about it when you get back!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Dan C 2624R on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 07:26:34 AM
Awesome.  Great checkpoint and time to spare for the ride to LOG.  Congratulations.  Well deserved.  Dan
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 07:35:14 AM
 :pirate: :pirate :pirate:

Take lots of pics and videos like you did on your road trip. Congrats
Dakazman

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: gideon on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 08:07:39 AM
Congratulations.  I'm impressed that you not only finished the restoration, but also found time to write up each days successes and setbacks.  Amazing.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: literarymadness on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 08:22:51 AM
 :beerchug: congrats my friend! I think you had most of the form on the edge. But I'm really happy to know your car will make it to LOG 39.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 09:19:55 AM
Thanks guys!  I am very proud to have (mostly) completed my restoration.

Just back from a 40 mile road test.  Car didn't miss a beat.  The front wheels have a bit of a vibration at 53mph and above. Will take them off and have them rebalanced today.  The transaxle seal on the left side has a small weep that isn't concerning but I'm watching it. I used Swepco 210 multigrade gear oil and I'm wondering if its too thin. And I need to be careful of potholes and large bumps as the suspension is low enough that the sway bar hits the road. I think Ill adjust the springs a bit to give me an extra inch.

Put the last finishing touches on 2358R when I returned to my garage. The rear window now proudly displays the Europa.org sticker and my own GRS Motorsports sticker on the interior engine deck lid.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 10:16:19 AM
Looks fantastic Cert! Looking forward to meeting you and the TC at LOG. First beer is on me!  :beerchug:
Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Dan C 2624R on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 10:22:07 AM
Way to go.  My congratulations.  Have fun with the final preparations for loading the Europa for the trip.  Take pictures and I can't wait to see the movie.  Dan
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 10:52:52 AM
two things Glen....
1) definitely raise that front since when the car is all packed for traveling tomorrow, you'll have lots more weight in it to lower the car more than you might want (no scraping)
2) wheel vibration is a fact of life with those Lotus alloy wheels i'm afraid.   I wish you luck, but find it pretty unlikely that you'll resolve that issue.

see you tomorrow morning!!!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 11:43:37 AM
Obviously, rechecking the balance and even the roundness of the tire should be checked first. I've always loved the style of the Lotus Brand wheels but the shoulder-lug-nut-with-washer system allowed the holes in the wheels to be wallowed out over time. I wonder if the holes in the Lotus Brand wheels could be sleeved or converted for conical seat lug nuts.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 04:55:51 PM
Fit them first using tapered lug nuts.  Then fit the OEM bolts/nuts.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Sandyman on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 05:59:58 PM
Glen/Certified, You are now defiantly on my "heroes" list! What a great car, what a great effort! Enjoy,Enjoy,Enjoy. All the positive feedback you get at LOG is deserved. Have fun.
Sandy
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 07:43:37 PM
I am humbled by all the support and good wishes. Thank you. And special thank you to all the people who came to my garage to lend a hand, help get big projects done and help me finish 2358R in time for LOG39.  It's been a much bigger undertaking than I originally thought and if you go back and read the beginning of my posts you know that I wasn't originally considering painting the car.  Down the rabbit hole I went.

This Europa is the result of a lot of peoples efforts both in person and on-line. You should all have some pride in the (almost) finished restoration.

Extra special thanks the Ray & George at RD Enterprises.  They made sure my weekly (and sometimes daily) parts request showed up at my house the next day and answered all my questions on every subject matter. Great to have such a knowledgeable resource for classic Lotus cars!   

I hope to see some of you at LOG39 this weekend. I'm looking forward to actually meeting you in person.

All the best, Glen (AKA Certified Lotus)

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 07:53:17 PM
Today was fairly boring compared to the last 2 months. I got the front wheels re-balanced (one was off by 1 ounce), filled the fuel tanks, added stabilizer to the fuel, raised the front coil springs by 1/2 inch for a bit more clearance, checked all the fluids, greased all the areas that need grease, checked tire pressure, re-arranged the jack and spare tire in the boot to make them more secure, packed the car for a road trip.

Tomorrow morning at 8am Ted and Lee will be at my house to start our two day back roads trip to LOG39. Along the way we pick up Chris, Bruce, Ray and Paul. 

Three Elan's, one Cortina, one Elise and two yellow Europas.  Seven card stud. Ought to be a lively and fun poker run  :beerchug:

Will update when I can from the road.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 08:08:59 PM
Safe travels to you all and have a great time at the LOG!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: lotusfanatic on Wednesday,August 21, 2019, 10:09:15 PM
Glen/Certified,

have a great road trip to LOG39, I hope you enjoy every second!

 :lotus:

Mark
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Thursday,August 22, 2019, 04:32:11 AM
Have a great trip! I'm planning to be at the hotel mid-afternoon Friday, assuming no breakdowns on the way. See you there.
Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: literarymadness on Thursday,August 22, 2019, 08:03:13 AM
 :lotus: L O T U S : Lots Of Trips Usually Spectacular!   Have a blast!!!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Bainford on Thursday,August 22, 2019, 09:13:49 AM
Congrats on completing the restoration. There is nothing like road tripping in a Europa. Enjoy the trip, good luck & safe travels.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Lou Drozdowski on Thursday,August 22, 2019, 10:36:00 AM
Glen,
 A special thanks for allowing us to follow your exploits on the restoration. Having had the chance to meet up and offer some help to reach completion is my reward. I wish you many miles of smiles and from everyone on this forum...."a job well done"... Enjoy LOG !
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Thursday,August 22, 2019, 09:50:59 PM
Congratulations, Glen. The car looks great.

It’s not just a stellar restoration, but you’ve recorded the trials and tribulations along the way through 70 odd pages over nearly three years. That documentation alone takes some significant dedication and perseverance.

So, well done you - enjoy.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,August 23, 2019, 02:39:21 AM
Thanks again for all the complements and support.

Thursday morning Lee and Ted showed up at my house early. I gave Lee a GoPro camera so he could shoot some video from another perspective as I was planning on making another road trip video and had two video cameras with me. Everyone was ready and packed looking forward to our first several hundred mile drive leg of our planned road trip. We all had Walkie talkies, with me in the lead Ted in his Elan Sprint followed by Lee in his Elise.

Ted radio’s me right away and says my brake lights are hooked up to the reverse lights. Huh? I know I wired them correctly and even had my wife stand behind the car while I stepped on the brakes. Then it hit me that I had pulled the wiring to trace the reverse light circuit and had probably confused the wires I put back together. Well, at least I have brake lights.

The first 30 miles set the tone for our drive as we drove through rolling hillls and farm land. And then the Prince of Darkness struck. Going down a slight hill towards a traffic light my car just stops running.

I coast to the traffic light and park on the side of the road. Not a great place to break down as there is lots of traffic and not much room for a car parked on the side. Ted and Lee pull over next to me as I jump,out of the car and open the rear engine deck. Everything looks fine. Try several times to start the engine, no deal. The police show up as I’m in a dangerous area and after a couple of minutes ask us to move the cars. Ted and Lee move their cars to a empty bank parking lot and come back to push the Europa to the same location.

I removed all the luggage from the rear tray and the rear tray. Electric fuel pump is working, pulled the fuel line banjo’s to confirm fuel pumping to the Weber carbs. Pulled the jets out of the Weber’s to confirm they aren’t clogged. Check the floats to insure they aren’t stuck. Try and start the engine. Turns over but won’t start. Pull the plugs, they get spark. Two of the plugs had cracked ceramic so I replaced all the plugs with an extra set I had with me. Still won’t start. I call my friend Larry to see if he has any suggestions and he offers to come to where I am located to see if he can help.

By this time it’s an hour past our next stop to meet up with the rest of our road trip caravan. I had called them earlier to say we would be late and why. They went to a restaurant and had breakfast. I convince Ted and Larry they should leave to join the rest of the group  and worst case I’ll get a tow truck to take the Europa back home and switch to my Elan S1. Will meet them at the hotel tonight. They reluctantly agree and take off. Larry shows up shortly afterwards.

I take Larry through the entire story and we check a variety of things and he suggest it’s ignition and not a fuel problem. I agree, but without a meter I can check anything. So I call a tow truck and send Larry home.

The flat bed tow truck shows up and I tell the driver the only way he will be able to get the Europa on the truck is to pull it up from the rear. The young guys says “I’ve been doing this for a long time, let me do my job”. Ok then. I stand back and watch him crawl underneath the Europa looking where to attach a nylon strap to winch the car onto the flat bed. He gets up off the ground and comes over to me saying, “I owe you an apology, your absolutely right, there is no way I can attach a winch strap without damaging the car. We will do it your way”. I get him to move the flat bed and show him the trans hoop and run the nylon strap to the winch cable. Then I ask him for two boards to put at the end of the bed on the ground as I know the front lip of the Europa will hit the ground when it gets to a certain angle. Got the car on the bed and strapped it with nylon straps through the wheels being careful not to be anywhere near the stick on balance weights.

The 45 minute drive to my house was a history lesson of Colin Chapman and Lotus Cars for the tow truck driver. He was very enthusiastic about the conversation.

It’s a little after noon and I’m right back where I started at 8am this morning, back at my garage. I think about just transferring all my stuff to my Elan as it’s ready to go and decide that I will spend another hour to trouble shoot the ignition system before I completely give up.  I get out my multimeter and test battery voltage (12.53 volts)and then voltage going to the coil (11.73 volts). Then I call Petronix technical service and talk to a rep. He walks me through all the various way to test the distributor and the coil under load. I perform all the tests (remove tach wire, check that the distributor clamp is well connected for ground, run a jumper from ground on the coil to chassis ground and measure voltage again on the coil). Any voltage above 8 volts under load is acceptable. I had 9.3 volts.

Decided the coil was the cause of the problem. It was new and a .6 ohm “Flame Thrower” coil which was the right impedance. I had another new flame thrower coil at 1.5 ohms and confirmed that I could use that with the red module in the distributor.

Reconnected everything and the engine started right up. OK, that’s a good thing, but why would a brand new coil fail and will it happen again? I’m going to be driving hundreds of miles to LOG and on back roads so I don’t want this happening again. And now I’m alone, not with a group of cars. Called Larry to talk through as I had checked all the electrical circuits and wanted another opinion. He didn’t have any new insights until he said “you have been wiring and testing circuits for weeks and have been leaving the ignition on a lot. That might have stressed the coil and it finally gave out”. Well, I thought, that makes sense.

Reloaded up the Europa, put a multimeter in my tool box in the car and took a shower. Left my garage at 4pm and it was 92 degrees outside with very high humidity. Texted my friends that I would meet them at the hotel at 8pm. Was told Paul’s Europa broke down twice (fuel pump issue) and Chris’ rear shock had come through the top cap. But they still did the stop at the Woodstock museum in Bethel and got to the hotel.

The next 4 hours  of back road  driving was fun with lots of elevation changes and roads with lots of curves. And then it started to rain. I’m really being tested I thought. Lights on, windshield wipers on, and slowed down a bit as I don’t know the handling aspects of this car in the rain.

Just before I arrived at the hotel the rain cleared and i pulled into the parking lot just before it got really dark. When I was checking in the front desk said my friends were waiting for me at a restaurant in town. I took a quick shower and got an Uber.

Arrived at the restaurant to an applause from the entire group and drinks while the details of the story unfolded.

Good to be with Lotus friends. Looking forward to being with more at LOG39!





 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Friday,August 23, 2019, 04:55:17 AM
The standard PT igniter uses a 3 ohm coil.  Are you using a igniter 2?

Congrats on a successful (and challenging) first run!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,August 23, 2019, 05:12:44 AM
Thanks JB. Yes Ignitor 2. Have already ordered a 3 ohm coil.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,August 23, 2019, 07:00:17 AM
What a harrowing adventure for all of you! Kudos to you for keeping after it and fixing the problem! Your story made me think about my ignition setup which is Pertronix too. I'm glad everybody made it okay and from the looks on everybody's faces in your last picture, everybody's ready for a good time! Hopefully the rest of the LOG and the way home is less stressful!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Friday,August 23, 2019, 07:13:32 AM
This is NOT what I want to read, setting off on my longest ever (yeah, it's only 75 miles, I know) Lotus trip, solo, with the same Flamethrower coil of I know not what impedance. But, fingers crossed, I'll be at LOG in a few hours.
Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,August 23, 2019, 07:28:29 AM
Fingers crossed for you, Tom!

I have a similar setup and although I try not to leave the ignition on for long periods of time I sometimes forget. So far, I've had no ignition problems since I installed it and that includes a nine hour trip to Birmingham and back and two four and a half hour trips to Asheville and back. But Certified's story is at least a warning to add a coil and maybe a spare module to the spares we carry. I've heard some people keep a set of points already gapped on a distributor plate so it can be installed in the dizzy if something goes wrong.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Dan C 2624R on Friday,August 23, 2019, 07:50:57 AM
Harrowing start to say the least.  Engine dying and then towed home.  Tenacious to find the problem and fix it.  Then hoping Lord Lucas has nothing else in mind for you, off you go alone to catch up only to hit rain.  Nice to hear all was handled.  I am going to have to start a new file on what to carry with me to fix on-the-road problems.  Awesome that you made it and are on your way to LOG.  Dan
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Friday,August 23, 2019, 06:19:59 PM
  I hope the events for tomorrow are just clear sailing as they say. You all look real happy.
Stay safe and dry.
Dakazman

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,August 24, 2019, 02:45:18 AM
Friday morning was clear skies and the temperature and humidity dropped substantially. We all checked out of the holiday Inn Express (because if you stay in a Holiday Inn you can do anything) and loaded our cars. Paul went off in search for a spare fuel pump, Ray found a garage with a lift to fix his exhaust clamp and Bruce tuned his TC Weber carbs a bit. Ted and Debbie pulled out their maps to discuss the next leg of the route.  (yes old school but for back road driving it’s actually nice to see the entire route in detail). We had planned on stopping at F40 Motorsports, but we never got a confirmation from Wayne Carini so we decided that driving and extra 3 hours was not going to be worth it (maybe on the return trip).

Everyone was done with the car prep by 8:15am, we took a group picture and off we went.

Glorious drive to Sturbridge. Nice weather, nice friends, nice roads. You couldn’t ask for more.

Ted was leading in his Elan Sprint as our master navigator with Bruce and Debbie in their Elan S2 right behind comparing route notes via walkie talkie. The car configuration was; Elan Sprint, Elan S2, Lotus Cortina, Europa TCS, Europa TC, Elan S3 and Elise. We were a sight to see and there were times when people waved, but mostly stared at the flock of Lotus cars driving by through small towns.

I’ll bet no-one will ever again see two yellow Europa’s together driving through the country side in the North East. Paul’s TCS is very well done and a finely restored car with lots of attention to detail. Plus he has AC! Like most Lotus owners, he knows every square inch of his car having done all the work himself. Very impressive Paul.

One of the nice things about driving with Ted is that he likes to stop at scenic places. We all pulled over at a scenic view stop of a lake and dam and stretched our legs and enjoyed the view. Of course a number of photo ops presented themselves and I took advantage of Ray (RD Enterprises Ray) and I both wearing his logo t-shirt to get a photo.

As we continued our drive Ted located and picked a very nice restaurant for lunch (The Barn). It had a big parking lot and we attracted attention right away from the Restaraunt staff. As the restaurant filled up for lunch people came over to our table of 9 people and complemented the cars.

One and one half hours later we were in the parking lot of the LOG39 hotel. Parked right next to another Europa TC and this guy walks over and says I would know your car anywhere Glen, I’m Tom (Surf Guitar). We chat for a few minutes and then off to registration and a much needed shower (it got a lot warmer later in the afternoon).

Lotus life. Yes, this is what it’s all about. Surrounded by Lotus cars and enthusiastic Lotus Owners. Can’t wait to look at all the cars and talk to the owners tomorrow on the concourse field.


Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,August 24, 2019, 06:34:11 AM
You guys are living the life! I wish I were there! Have a great time at the LOG!

 :lotus:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,August 24, 2019, 12:53:13 PM
Great turnout for LOG39!  Lot’s of Europa’s and one very special one.......the one and only GKN 47D.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,August 24, 2019, 01:14:47 PM
I hope you're taking a lot of pictures!!!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Saturday,August 24, 2019, 02:43:18 PM
That is incredible!!!! Wish I was there too!!!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: GavinT on Saturday,August 24, 2019, 11:06:05 PM

That’s a great line up at LOG.

Interesting to note that from what I recognise on the RH side of the photo, perhaps one of the more valuable cars is the one with the least Lotus content!
No disrespect intended, of course, and I’d love a Lotus Cortina.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Bodzer on Sunday,August 25, 2019, 01:14:20 AM
Lovely!  Thanks for the photos.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,August 25, 2019, 03:46:22 AM
Saturday night banquet. Lots of great Lotus conversation around the dinner tables. Martin Donnely was the feature speaker. I was surprised he was here as Martin had a serious moped accident that injured his leg a couple of months ago. He was on crutches but in good spirits speaking about his life and the horrible F1 accident he was in.

The highlite of the evening is always the awards ceremony. I’ll let the owners of their cars post there own recognition, but I’m pleased to tell you that 2358R won second place in the Europa TC category.

I also entered the large model contest with two of my Lotus RC Formula One Cars (I had written an article for ReMarque magazine) and they won second place too.

Another great LOG day with lots of great times. Tom (Surf Guitar) and I had a chance to enjoy a beer before the banquet (great to finally meet you Tom and you have a great looking Europa TC. Those headers are a work of art). Of course it didn’t take long to be surrounded by other LOG  participants at the bar.

Next years LOG will be in Utah, September 18 to 21, 2020. Now that would be a long Road Trip .........


Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,August 25, 2019, 08:50:58 AM
Congratulations on your two seconds, Certified! I have to agree with you, Surf's headers are beautiful!

Sounds like the good times continue!

Bring home (and post) lots (more) pictures!

I hope your trip home will be less eventful and more enjoyable!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Sunday,August 25, 2019, 09:14:49 AM
Wow! My first LOG. What a great time and a great bunch of people!

Glen, it was great finally meeting and getting to know you, as well as Paul, Ted and a few others I may not have successfully tied to their forum names. Everyone was super friendly and made me feel welcome with my conspicuous green "First Time Log" ribbon affixed to my badge. I should note that quite a thirsty crowed joined us at the bar and Glen picked up the tab and generously wouldn't accept any help with the bill.

There was an amazing collection of Loti in attendance, but as has been said previously, the Rover V8 Type 47 stole the show. I have attached a few pics for your enjoyment.

Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Sunday,August 25, 2019, 09:19:09 AM
A few more pics...
t
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,August 25, 2019, 09:35:02 AM
Being a veteran of a few LOGs, I was quite confident you would have a great time! I considered going to this one but I wasn't sure about a 12 hour trip in the summer. I've done much longer trips in my car but I was much younger then!

I know a few Europa owners in NC. I'm sure there are a few in VA and maybe we can organize a meeting in the middle?

Edit: Almost forgot to thank you for the pictures! Great!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 3929R on Sunday,August 25, 2019, 10:50:06 AM
Great stories! Great pictures!  :beerchug: :trophy:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,August 25, 2019, 07:25:39 PM
Another great LOG39 day. Wonderful weather and lot’s of Lotus cars took off at 8am for the rally while the other half of us (like me) had a leisurely breakfast and caught up with friends new and old. Got to chat with Martin Donnelly and then Bob Dance. Moved outside and spent time talking to various Lotus owners talking about their cars and what lead them to the models they own.

I like Sundays, it’s more relaxed and you can have a different type of conversation with everyone.

Ted and Chris came back from the rally convinced they had won or at least placed second (They found out at the banquet later that night they had won first place). 

We took off for the Thompson track to have lunch at the club house and then watch the auto cross event. There were two Europa’s, and because I’m partial to yellow cars I took a few photos.

The drive to and from the track takes about 35 minutes and I relished the additional seat time in my Europa as I’m really enjoying the handling of the car. Have I mentioned the power range of the engine? Great low end torque and the power band just keeps going.

Back at the host hotel more time for conversations on Twin Cam engines, Weber carbs, suspension and the favorite topic of the shift tubes and how to improve the Europa shifting. Tony Vaccaro said to me he never drove a Europa with a shifter that worked well. I told him mine worked fine, once I understood what to expect.

Drinks at the bar with Ray & Linda and then dinner with my road trip friends. We discussed our revised plan for the next two days of back road driving.

Tomorrow will be A great road trip day.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,August 25, 2019, 07:52:22 PM
Sounds like a great way to cap off a LOG! I guess the next adventure is the trip home?

Safe travels to all the LOG attendees!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,August 27, 2019, 03:14:06 AM
Our group (Ted, Chris, Bruce & Debbie and me) in three Elan’s and one Europa had breakfast together at 8am and we were on the road by 8:45am. Beautiful day, cool and crisp with fluffy clouds. As usual, our routes are all back roads to have as little traffic as possible and enjoy the views and the driving.

We had decided to go visit F40 Motor Sports. It was not exactly a route to take us back home but what the heck, all of us watch chasing classic cars and we might be lucky to see Wayne and hopefully Roger. 1 1/2 hours later we pull into F40 motor sports. We met Chris’ brother there in an NSX and had a number of conversations. The people inside the show room had seen all these Lotus’ pulled up and parked and wondered why we hadn’t come in, so they came outside to us. Mike introduced himself as the head of sales for F40 and asked about our cars and what we were up to. He said Wayne happened to be here today and would enjoy meeting us and Roger was working in the garage.

All Debbie had to hear was Roger was in the garage and she peeled off to see him. After a few minutes of conversation with Mike I also went over the the garage and we chatted with Roger for a fairly long time. He was a hoot! Great guy and I told him his parts in the TV show are my favorites. We took a group picture with him and then Wayne appeared. We all chatted on the reason why a bunch of Lotus’ were together and he wanted to hear about our cars. Then we did another group picture with Wayne and our cars and finally went into the showroom to look at what was for sale. A few of us bought t-shirts for a longer memory of our experience.

Our destination for the end of the day was Poughkeepsie NY (none of us had ever been there, which is why we picked it) and along the way we stopped at a diner for lunch, a covered bridge and then Lime Rock Park (race track) which brought back old memories for Bruce, Chris and I as we had all raced here at some point of our lives.

Chris took off on his own as he wanted to get home from this point and left our group.

We drove meandering country roads through Connecticut and NY until we got the our hotel (the third Holiday Inn Express on our trip, they really are nice hotels and include a great breakfast) in Poughkeepsie. Debbie picked a restaurant from the list the hotel provided and we all freshened up and took an Uber to Shadows on the Hudson. Fantastic view, great food and great friends!

2358R is running great! Hasn’t missed a beat and it handles like it’s on rails. Oil pressure, engine temp, alternator charging and idle are all what they should be. Lots of HP for this car and it is a joy to be behind the wheel.  Much different experience than my Elan’s and a lot of fun to drive. The speedo cable broke (I forgot to lube it when I installed it so operator error) but otherwise everything works as it should. I’m very happy with the results. And I’ll mention again, it shifts very well now that I know the pattern........

Tomorrow is our last day of Lotus road trip. Looking forward to a few more adventures.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Pfreen on Tuesday,August 27, 2019, 04:06:34 AM
Wish I could have been there.  I am glad I got to ride with you all on the way to Log.
I’ve 700 more miles to go to Fort Lauderdale.  The car is running great.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,August 27, 2019, 04:12:17 AM
Paul, we miss you on this section of the road trip! Chris has kept us updated on your progress and glad to hear your making it back to FL safely. Are your driving highways or secondary roads?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Tuesday,August 27, 2019, 04:15:39 AM


All Debbie had to hear was Roger was in the garage and she peeled off to see him. After a few minutes of conversation with Mike I also went over the the garage and we chatted with Roger for a fairly long time. He was a hoot! Great guy and I told him his parts in the TV show are my favorites.



I never miss an episode of "The Roger Show".
t
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,August 27, 2019, 07:09:03 AM
You guys are having a great trip! Thanks for the updates and pictures so that we can ride with you a little vicariously. Continued safe travels!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,August 27, 2019, 10:35:10 AM
You guys are having a great trip! Thanks for the updates and pictures so that we can ride with you a little vicariously. Continued safe travels!

   Well stated BDA,    X2 😀👍👍
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,August 27, 2019, 02:20:42 PM
Arrived home in Princeton at 4 pm on Tuesday. 6 days after we left and 800 miles of driving for me. Great shake down drive for 2358R and I couldn’t be happier. Ted followed me home and we spoke for a while over ice cold water. This trip would be tough to beat as we all had such a good time doing the entire Lotus road trip.

Our day today started with driving a short distance from the hotel to the parking lot of the Walkway over the Hudson. I had asked the Uber driver last night if there was only one thing we could see while passing through Poughkeepsie, what would he suggest. The walkway was top of his list, so we went.

We were not disappointed. The renovated railroad bridge is 212 feet above the Hudson River and 1.28 miles long. It is the worlds longest elevated pedestrian bridge. We took a long walk across and enjoyed the magnificent views and learned a bit of history along the way. We also reconnected with Ray & Linda (Lotus Cortina) on the bridge and they re-joined the road trip group.

Upon return to the parking lot where our cars were parked, a group of people were admiring our cars and asked if we were on our way to Limerock race track. They were very interested in the Europa.

Driving through small towns, past farm lands and tree lined roads we drove with vigor and enjoyed the views. In the Mohonk Preserve the Mountain View’s were spectacular and at Kerhonkson we stopped to enjoy a longer view. Driving up and down the mountain pass was a lot of fun, especially for this gaggle of Lotus cars.

We stopped in Port Jarvis for a causal pizza lunch before embarking on the last leg of our trip. Entering New Jersey we knew the road trip was near the end and we stopped as a group for one last photo and ice cream in Bridgeville, saying our goodbyes before we split up.

A wonderful road trip and great lasting memories. The Europa was a pleasure to drive for a long several day, multi location trip and excelled at every turn. Bruce drove my Europa for about 50 miles and when we stopped to switch cars he asked if I wanted to trade my Europa for his. He liked it that much. Well, that says it all.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: SilverBeast on Tuesday,August 27, 2019, 02:53:18 PM
Fantastic to see you had no issues (apart from the hiccup at the start).  I'm sure that was a great relief, though not much of a surprise to most of us with all the care and effort you put in while rebuilding your car.

I'm just starting my Europa (and Lotus!) "journey".  Like many other's I'm also suffering serious Garage envy!

Photo 1 Saturday Just After Test Drive


Photo 2 Wednesday Just before delivery
(http://)

Photo 3 Wednesday Just After delivery
(http://)

I'd love to one day go on a similar road trip.  Can't go too far though before I fall of the island, and the weather would be unlikely to be as favourable!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,August 27, 2019, 04:22:43 PM
That really was a great trip. I think you'll remember it for a long time - partially because of the problem you had at the beginning (and thank God it happened at the beginning). I always say that it's the things that don't go to plan that makes a memory. And then it was essentially your first drive in your new baby and sharing that with your Lotus friends... I can't imagine it being any better than that! Thanks for sharing it with us!

Congratulations to you and your pals! Well done!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,August 28, 2019, 03:49:36 AM
Fantastic to see you had no issues (apart from the hiccup at the start).  I'm sure that was a great relief, though not much of a surprise to most of us with all the care and effort you put in while rebuilding your car.

I'm just starting my Europa (and Lotus!) "journey".  Like many other's I'm also suffering serious Garage envy!

I'd love to one day go on a similar road trip.  Can't go too far though before I fall of the island, and the weather would be unlikely to be as favourable!

I’m laughing at your garage clean up. A “new” sports car always seems to get the right attention. I’ll bet that within a year your garage will only have Lotus related stuff in it as you start the journey of regular maintenance and modifications. Enjoy the journey!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,August 28, 2019, 01:43:58 PM
Photo of me in my Europa. Can you tell I’m enjoying myself?

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,August 28, 2019, 02:37:36 PM
Uh... Yeah!  :)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Wednesday,August 28, 2019, 03:12:27 PM
i can't wait for the "LOG39 Road Trip" video !!!!!

I did nearly 900 miles total in my blue/white Elan Sprint (as I live further south near Philadelphia) and my car never missed a beat, ran perfectly....used 1 1/2 quarts of oil.

Glen, Chris, Paul, Ray (& Mrs. Ray), Bruce, Debbie, Leo = loved having you guys in our group!

I like LOG events, but I LOVE the road trips to and from much better.

like Bob Hope would say..... "Thanks for the memories"
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,August 29, 2019, 03:27:51 AM
Congratulations on your event free road trip Ted! And for leading the entire group navigating the back roads with ease.

I started working on the road trip/LOG39 video last night. It will take me a few weeks but I’ve got some great shots, especially because Lee and Debbie had B Roll cameras.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Thursday,August 29, 2019, 06:02:26 AM
My Elan worked great on the road trip after rebuilding the carbs on Sunday be Log.
Looking to take the Europa to Watkins Glen in 2 weeks for the Vintage Race.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,August 29, 2019, 06:19:27 AM
Bruce and I traded cars while we were on the road trip. His Elan S2 is one sweet driving car.  His exhaust note is intoxicating! Another great road trip with you and Debbie!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,August 29, 2019, 06:21:43 AM
Here is a photo of the map and type of Lotus cars that came to LOG39.  Interesting to see the different types coming from around the country.  The Lotus faithful  :trophy:

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,September 01, 2019, 04:35:33 AM
Ted just sent me a picture he took of me and 2358R at LOG39. It’s hard to imagine I started on the restoration journey 3 years ago and ended up with a “new” Europa Twin Cam  :trophy:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: cwtech on Sunday,September 01, 2019, 05:26:44 AM
Thanks for the interesting map!

Only 8 of the 26 states & provinces represented had Europas attending.

It appears the Europas  from Florida and Ontario travelled the furthest.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,September 01, 2019, 06:46:51 AM
Snappy guy with a snappy Europa!  ;)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Wednesday,September 04, 2019, 04:18:36 AM
Lots of room? Brake peddle is hard with about an inch of travel ?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,September 04, 2019, 04:39:54 AM
A few photos of me and 2358R at LOG39 concours taken by Paul.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,September 04, 2019, 04:40:40 AM
Lots of room? Brake peddle is hard with about an inch of travel ?

Is that my car Bruce?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Pfreen on Friday,September 06, 2019, 02:20:35 PM
Glen,

Did your coil fail because you left your ignition on?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,September 06, 2019, 02:35:29 PM
I don’t know Paul. A friend of mine suggested that because of all the wiring testing I was doing during the final phase of completion I could have burned out my coil that way. It’s sounds possible, leaving the ignition switch on for hours could have done that, but I really have no idea.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Pfreen on Friday,September 06, 2019, 02:48:34 PM
I asked because bda posted that is what happened to your coil.  If true, then I think Pertronix has a problem and should know.  The coil current allowed through most ignition systems is limited to a safe level and the heat generated should not be enough to ruin the coil or the ignition unit.  I know something about this because my company, Etatech,  was in the ignition business. 
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/how-eccos-works-7639.html

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,September 06, 2019, 02:56:47 PM
I had a long conversation with a technician from Pertronix when I was trouble shooting the problem in my garage. All the voltages he had me check were in range. He did say it could be a bad coil, which is why I swapped it out. Who knows. But 800 miles later there was no problem with the new coil and I didn’t change any wiring.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Pfreen on Friday,September 06, 2019, 03:23:31 PM
It seems like a defective coil then.  I just wanted to clarify it was a bad part versus a design flaw.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Friday,September 06, 2019, 03:52:35 PM
I may have been presumptuous in saying the coil burned out from keeping the ignition on. I know that some Pertronix systems are supposed to be safe from leaving the ignition on, but I assumed that the hall-effect module was the thing that was protected and not the coil. When the new coil solved the problem, I assumed (there's that word again!) that verified that the ignition/coil issue was the cause.

QC is never 100% so if the Pertronix guy says it was likely a bad coil, I would believe him.

Well, it sounded good anyway. :P Sorry if I misled anyone.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,September 07, 2019, 05:01:02 AM
Finished the rough edit of my LOG39 Road Trip video last night. In it current stage it’s 1 hour and 20 minutes long. Way too long to keep anyone’s interest level so I’ll be significantly editing sections out.

I’m off to Ireland next week (taking my wife on a surprise anniversary trip, she has no idea where we are going) so no time to finish the video until I get back.

I’m also working on interior trim details that I didn’t finish on 2358R before I left for LOG. It will be another month before those are completed.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,September 07, 2019, 07:19:17 AM
I think you should post both the full and edited videos or you can make it a serial!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Saturday,September 07, 2019, 03:16:32 PM
  Put it all out there! We can fast forward 😀 I bet some of the cars going faster would be cool.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,September 08, 2019, 04:07:30 AM
Too much work to edit and then render all the effects on two versions. Remember, I do have a day job to stay focused on....... ( not retired yet).

But don’t worry, the interesting stuff will stay in. I’ve got a great conversation with Roger at F40. That will go in unedited. The speech by Martin (at the LOG banquet) gets about 20 seconds, not his entire presentation.  Remember, our road trip group traveled together for 6 days. You only want to see the highlights  :pirate:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Dan C 2624R on Sunday,September 08, 2019, 06:25:04 AM
Personally, I will say thank you for whatever you post.  Considering the previous examples of your videos, I expect to be very impressed and will have that "wish I was there" feeling, I am sure.  Dan
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,September 10, 2019, 01:12:47 PM
Here is a video of my TC engine idling and a bit of throttle.......

https://youtu.be/lS0AfcUOkK0
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,September 10, 2019, 01:37:50 PM
Very cool! I love the effects on the text!

Thanks for posting it at What does your Europa sound like today? too!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,September 10, 2019, 02:50:32 PM
   Great job on the video credits.  Can’t wait for the WOT sound effects.
Dakazman

pS Don’t do it yet . Lol
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Dan C 2624R on Tuesday,September 10, 2019, 06:43:59 PM
Glen,  So how are you spending your "free (since the restoration is finished) time"?  Hopefully frequenting the local roads in the Europa.  Possibly using it as the ride-to-work vehicle?  Inquiring minds want to know.

Dan
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: literarymadness on Tuesday,September 10, 2019, 07:08:08 PM
Glen

Do you know how much horsepower you have at the rear wheels?  It would be great to know how much horsepower is lost.  The only Europa owner that dynoed his guy both at the crank and at the rear wheels got 135 hp at the crank and 103 hp at the rear wheels.  I would be great for guys who have only dynoed at the rear to be able to reverse engineer the numbers.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,September 11, 2019, 05:14:32 AM
Thanks guys!

No free time. I own three Lotus’ so always something needing to be done. Plus I’m editing the LOG 39 Road Trip (just pulled an all nighter to finish before I leave for Europe).

I don’t drive my sports cars to work. It’s not a good image for employees to see one of the Sr. execs coming to work in expensive sports cars (even though they aren’t expensive).

No idea how much HP is at the wheels (I’m not racing anymore so I don’t have direct access to a drive on Dyno).  I can tell you it’s more than 103 HP at the wheels. How much I don’t know.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,September 12, 2019, 04:17:54 AM
Here is the edited video of our LOG 39 Road Trip. Ted and I agree that the back road drive to and from LOG is as fun (and even more) as LOG itself.

Grab a cup of coffee (or a beer) and make yourself comfortable. It’s 39 minutes long so you get a real feel of our experiences and surprises along the way. Watch in HD as it was shot in that format. Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/XehA0cehUuI

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Thursday,September 12, 2019, 05:57:08 AM
  That will be great to watch!
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,September 12, 2019, 10:13:33 AM
Another great video, Certified!! I might have to watch it again!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: literarymadness on Thursday,September 12, 2019, 10:55:52 AM
 :trophy: Well done!!! Gratitude for allowing those who could not attend an insider's point of view.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Thursday,September 12, 2019, 05:38:32 PM
I LOVE it.   Even though I'm actually in the video having lived it, I still get a kick out of watching it.    I still occasionally watch the one from last year.  Just search "LOG38 road trip" on YouTube.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,September 21, 2019, 03:31:47 PM
Thanks for the complements on my video. Glad your enjoying it (already at over 570 views). It was a fun trip with lots of great memories.

I’m back from Europe and it’s such a glorious day here in Princeton I decided to go for a back country drive in the Europa to visit a friend (who happens to do very expensive exotic sports car restorations). 

Driving the Europa is intoxicating. It’s very comfortable, goes where you point it with minimal effort and the extra HP of my TC engine really gets it up to speed quickly and with authority.

This car gets a lot of attention. People stare, wave, give thumbs up. Other sports car drivers wave (two Porches today were very enthusiastic) and I had a car pull over just so they could follow me for a while.

My current front suspension set-up has 8 inch 140lb springs and a fair amount of camber. The cars corners with a flick of the wrist (really just a twist of my fingers) but any medium bumps in the road and the shocks hit the bump stops. Great for a race track but not for twisty back road country driving.

I’m going back to the 10 inch springs. It’s a day of work in my garage, but I think I’ll be happier with the spring travel for back road driving.

I also have a few details to complete on the interior and a few other nit picking items on my list.

Now I just need to find some time........
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,September 21, 2019, 05:22:23 PM
If any other car generates as much attention as a Europa, I don't know what it is. You'll just have to get used to it.

What rate are your 10" springs? I would think if it's less than 140# it might be worse about hitting the bump stops unless you raised the nose up, but then you could do that with the 8" springs too. Have you considered stiffening the shocks or have you stiffened them already?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,September 22, 2019, 11:21:43 AM
BDA, I could have sworn I answered your question (still jet lagged) and then I realized I posted my responses on another post. DUH! So just for sake of clarity (at least for me) and the continued quest to finish 2358R here are the main points:

(CL) I’m following up on this thread as I now have almost a 1000 miles on the 8” x 140# front spring set up. My AVO adjustable shocks have 11 settings and I have experimented with each one of the settings. The stiffer settings (8 and above) create the right rebound but the car sits too low for back country road driving without adjusting the springs up fairly far in the perches which then allows the bump stops to hit on medium bumps in the road. Additionally the chamber is very negative. That would work extremely well for Autocross, and the car turns just by thinking about a corner........

I’m going back to the 10” x 150# springs which is what Dave Bean suggested in the first place for a “fast road” set up.

I love the stance of my Europa and am torn to reinstall the 10 inch springs, but it needs to be street-able (my friend Bruce has the same 8"set up and he has similar issues) .

More to come.

(BDA) Have you considered getting adjustable upper A-arms to set your camber? Alternatively, I've seen where some have made slotted their lower wishbones and made plates to adjust the camber (not a very good description but hopefully you'll get the idea).

(CL) I really wanted to stick with as much of the stock components as possible considering this is a road car. The adjustable arms enter into a different territory for continuous adjustments. My track cars had these. One day I’ll see if I can locate the pages and pages of documentation I made for my suspension setups, tire pressure and tire temperature of my track Exige S. It all got to be overwhelming, especially when I kept modifying the aero along the way.

Colin had it right, let Lotus do the engineering and leave it alone. Now, saying that I am fully aware of the changes I have made with adjustable shocks. But that is as far as I am willing to go for this car.

Hopefully.......maybe......probably......

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,September 22, 2019, 11:30:11 AM
When I was dismantling my interior the trim around the rear window vents it came apart in pieces.  I knew there was no replacement so I saved all the pieces in a zip lock bag. Well, I glued/taped all those pieces and made a template for a new one. Now I just need to cut it out, place it on the window and trim for a custom fit and then glue on the black vinyl trim that I got to match the original (or at least as close as I could get).

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Sunday,September 22, 2019, 01:12:02 PM
   Certified
I have a small bag of pieces just like that . I thought they were for inside the A pillars. Thanks for posting that picture.
  You should have 571 / 572 views on the road trip😃. I’m going to have to beam it to my large screen to really enjoy the scenery and cars.
  I didn’t like the comment the f40 mechanic said about the Europa rear suspension  :blowup:
  Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,September 22, 2019, 04:12:33 PM
Glad I could jog your memory Dave.

Don’t take Rogers comments personally, I’ve heard/read worse. He was a hoot to meet! There is a local guy to me who is the same age and has a wealth of sports car knowledge who works with me every once in a while. He is exactly the same as Roger. But, you can learn a lot from these guys as they have real life experiences that you can’t replicate.

Appreciate the wisdom of your elders for they see more than you at your stage in life........especially old cranky sports car garage guys  :FUNNY:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,September 22, 2019, 05:16:17 PM
Quote
Colin had it right, let Lotus do the engineering and leave it alone. Now, saying that I am fully aware of the changes I have made with adjustable shocks. But that is as far as I am willing to go for this car.

I'm not interested in trying to influence your plans for your car - nor would I think you'd allow me to influence you in the first place - but just remember that Colin was constrained by regulatory regimes over which he had no control. I certainly don't think Chunky wanted to put the TC nose up in the air!  :)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,September 22, 2019, 05:30:22 PM
Totally agree BDA! But I remind myself that Dave Bean recommends the 10” springs for fast road and they have more experience than most of us. I think I’ll call Ken tomorrow and talk to him about it. He was right about my Elan front springs. Which is why I had a pair of 8” springs in sitting in my garage  to begin with. I second guessed him and was wrong......
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,September 22, 2019, 06:07:14 PM
I'm not sure you were wrong. There are lots of ways to skin a cat. Ken suggests 10" 150# springs, Richard recommends (or recommended to me) 8" 250# springs. Both could be right but certainly different and might appeal to different people. That points out a cunundrum we have when multiple experts give contradictory advice - which do you go with or do you try to incorporate both. I think it's usually safer to pick one and stick with that. I don't think you could go wrong with either Ken or Richard. If you started with Ken, it probably makes sense to stick with him.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,October 06, 2019, 05:24:33 AM
I’m back from a 350 mile road trip to our local Lotus club’s “Garage Tour”.  We had seven of these this year with Don Butler’s “Union Jack Exotics” in Maryland being the last tour of the year.

Great turn out with a number of us starting the road trip to Don’s from RD Enterprises to drive all back roads. Two Elan’s and two Europa’s made the trip together with over 2 hours of mostly twisty back roads along Amish farms and small towns. Ray’s recently completed Elan S4 restoration is a thing of beauty (and not just because it’s yellow).

As some of you know (from a separate post) I had a mysterious electrical problem that impacted all my front lights that got fully resolved before the morning of the drive. No horn at the moment, but my front lights all work!

Nothing like a several hour back country road drive to get to know your car in great detail. Although I have over a thousand miles on my Europa since completing it, I’m still experiencing all the small aspects of this car that bring great sports car enthusiast smiles to the memory bank.

I know I’ve mentioned this before, the power range on this motor really suits the car. It really moves quickly and the sound of the Weber’s and exhaust winding out with anger are intoxicating. And the steering is telepathic. Really. I’m used to driving racing carts where the slight movement of your head would steer the cart through a corner (because you arms follow where ever your looking) and the Europa is the same.

Now you need to understand I have some extreme camber at the moment (which will change when I go back to 10 inch springs) so the turn in is very very good.

With the 8 inch springs on the front shocks the car stance is wonderfully low and aggressive looking. But the sway bar is the lowest point of the car and I’m always on the look out for large bumps or road transitions that would cause the car to fully use the suspension travel. I’ve bumped the sway bar too many times and hit the bump stops on the front shocks. The 8 inch, 150 lb springs are coming off! This setup is for race track smooth roads only.

Big turnout for the garage tour event. We had about 20 Lotus cars over the course of the day with Don and Debbie being wonderful hosts!

I spent most of the day answering lots of questions and receiving a ton of complements on my Europa rebuild. Got to take TurboForce for a quick drive to give some perspective of what it’s like to be in a Europa at speed  :pirate:

All in all a great day of talking about all things Lotus. The road trip home duplicated the drive down only this time Bruce was leading in his red Europa Twin Cam until we split up to head to our separate home locations.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,October 06, 2019, 05:41:35 AM
It looks like you guys had a good turnout and a lot of fun! Congratulations on finding your problem with your headlights!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,October 10, 2019, 06:48:38 PM
Off with the front shocks, removed the 8 inch 140 lbs springs and REINSTALLED the 10 inch 150 lbs springs. I'll finish everything tomorrow and realign the front end.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Thursday,October 10, 2019, 07:35:13 PM
    :FUNNY:
Your desk top is immaculate, I’ll take a picture of mine for comparison and maybe see your car in beautiful NJ. one day.
Dakazman 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,October 11, 2019, 07:54:26 PM
Dave, I wouldn't say immaculate, maybe organized.....

I have a habit of putting my tools away every night. Wipe them down and put them back where they belong. Doesn't matter that I working on something the next day.  The tools always get put away.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,October 11, 2019, 08:18:44 PM
Spent the afternoon re-installing the front suspension with the "new" 10 inch springs.  I already know that the stance is two inches higher (which I'm not keen about) but the 10 inch shocks will prevent the antisway bar being hit and the shocks from hitting the bump stops.

I needed my helper to position the shocks so I could tap the long top bolts for the a-arms in place.  She was more than happy to assist, mainly due to the fact that I'm not in the garage every night lately as the Europa restoration is mostly done.

Somewhere I read that you should install washers on either side of the shock absorber bushings.  I've got a dim memory of this so I installed thin stainless steel washers on either side of the top bushings.

Of course, while re-assembling my trusty bottle of never seize is always by my side to brush on a thing coat of any metal to metal contact.

I also replaced the broken speedometer cable. Found out it broke at the transaxle side and the cable sheath had wear marks where the shift tube hits it. After installing the new speedo cable I looked closely at the shift tube movement and could not figure out how to eliminate it from rubbing the speedo cable. Any ideas on this?  I'm stumped.  I did take the cable out of the sheath and applied a nice thin film of grease on it before re-inserting the cable.

Went for a night test drive. Yup the speedo is working again and the car handles just fine. Much better suspension travel over bumps.  I do need to raise the rear springs another inch as the front of the car is at 23" to the edge of the top fender lip and 22" at the rear of the fender lip. The angle is backwards.  Will tackle in the morning. I'm too tired and I have a British Car show to go to tomorrow. "Brits at the Village" at Peddlers Village. Always a great show and everybody is very friendly. Should be fun.
 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: literarymadness on Friday,October 11, 2019, 11:09:35 PM
Certified: a couple of questions.  What is the height of your TC at the top of the roof?  From the bottom of the door to the ground?  And what size tires are you using?

L/M
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,October 12, 2019, 03:57:28 AM
Certified: a couple of questions.  What is the height of your TC at the top of the roof?  From the bottom of the door to the ground?  And what size tires are you using?

L/M

Height at top of roof: 42”
Bottom of door to ground: 12 1/4 “
Front tires: 175/70R/13
Rear Tires: 185/70R/13
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: literarymadness on Saturday,October 12, 2019, 08:00:48 AM
Certified: Thanks for doing that.  Your car is pretty close to perfect so I wanted to compare your settings to mine.  I am am 40 1/2 " at the roof and 10 1/2 " from the bottom of the door.  My tires are 185/60R/13 front and 205/60R/13 at the rear.  I am running 10" / 150 lb springs at the front and 12" 120 lbs at the rear. The sixties series tires lower the car about an inch as compared to the seventy series. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Saturday,October 12, 2019, 10:01:41 AM
Dave, I wouldn't say immaculate, maybe organized.....

I have a habit of putting my tools away every night. Wipe them down and put them back where they belong. Doesn't matter that I working on something the next day.  The tools always get put away.
[/quot


   :FUNNY: :FUNNY: your gonna die then!
As promised...
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,October 12, 2019, 03:00:11 PM
Thanks for the comparison measurements L/M. Any idea what your car weights?

Dave, yup, looks like your shop bench  :FUNNY: :FUNNY:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,October 12, 2019, 03:47:17 PM
Spectacular weather day here in the Princeton area. Blue skies, crisp weather and fall colors on the trees. It was just magnificent.

Got up early this morning and jacked up the back of the car to adjust another inch on the rear coil over shocks. Lowered it and decided I needed to wait until I drove the car for everything to settle before making more measurements.

The drive to Peddler’s Village where the ”Brits at the Village” car show was located is about 30 miles of mostly back roads going through Lambertville and New Hope (river towns with shops and restaurants) connected by a small bridge over the Delaware.

Great turn out at the British car show, but only three Lotus’. A really nice Caterham, an equally nice Evora and my Europa. Spent the day answering lots of questions and receiving lots of complements on my Europa. A lot of people were stunned that I did the frame off restoration. The best ending was that I won first prize  :trophy:

More importantly, the new suspension set up is perfect! I should have left well enough alone when I first installed the 10” 150 lb springs instead of looking for a more radical “boy racer” stance and lowering with the 8” 140 lb springs.
The ride is much more gentle. No hard bumps or crashing onto the bump stops.  The car isn’t as darty (the camber is now to spec) and I’m not scanning the road all the time for any possible bumps.

My friend Bruce showed up at the show and we talked about the shifter tube hitting the speedo cable. We shifted the tube through all the gears while parked and saw that it’s third gear that hits the speedo cable. Bruce also has a 72 Europa so he was going to check his car when he got home. Yup, he sent me a picture later in the day, his shift tube hits the speedo cable in third gear too. The difference is the PO  installed a metal cable holder to keep the cable away from the shift tube. Anyone else have any insights on this?

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,October 12, 2019, 05:28:24 PM
Congratulations on your First Prize!!  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: literarymadness on Saturday,October 12, 2019, 07:58:42 PM
Certified: 1,491 lbs. That is with a 1/3 tank of gas and both boosters, but no spare or tube and pretty much all of the same aluminum switch-outs as you car.  The two boosters weigh in tandem about 25 lbs. combined.   93 octane gas is 6.35 lbs per gallon.  So figure a 1/3 tank is about 32 lbs.  If you are looking '60s British kerb weight numbers to compare to, about 1,460 lbs.  In the US Today, curb weight includes a full tank of gas.  Back then it was water and oil usually a 1/3 tank or no gas.  I am pretty sure Chapman would have measured kerb weight of Lotus cars with no petrol.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Sunday,October 13, 2019, 07:09:29 AM
Glen the picture shows I have about a finger with clearance between shifter tube and cable in 3rd gear ?
And I installed the clamp.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,October 13, 2019, 07:19:07 AM
Thanks Bruce.  I will make the same modification.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,October 13, 2019, 07:22:09 AM
Now that my restoration is completed (a few small items to finish) and I've received recognition from a couple of cars shows with it,  the Europa is for sale.  See my ad in the for sale posts. Somebody is going to get a well sorted Europa Twin Cam.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: SilverBeast on Sunday,October 13, 2019, 07:37:18 AM
Hi CL.  I've read all your restoration epic since getting my TCS a few months ago, and have just watched your Lotus Porn Road Trip video.  I hope you've enjoyed your time with the car as much I've enjoyed reading about it.  I'm sure your restoration thread will be a well used reference for a long time.  I hope you will still be loitering around the Forum for many years to come and glad to see you are selling by choice rather than being forced to.

Here's a picture of my bench for the "Bench Competition. (You can just see it peeping out behind the drivers door (UK car!) if you are having difficulty finding it)

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: literarymadness on Sunday,October 13, 2019, 09:14:33 AM
Wow! I must say I'm a little shocked. Your contributions to the forum have been incredible and insightful. Congrats on a job well done and I hope you get what you're asking for the car.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: SilverBeast on Sunday,October 13, 2019, 11:37:28 AM
Wow! I must say I'm a little shocked. Your contributions to the forum have been incredible and insightful. Congrats on a job well done and I hope you get what you're asking for the car.

He should do if this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1973-Lotus-Europa-Twin-Cam-Special-Complete-Original-Barn-Find/274050503383?hash=item3fceaed2d7:g:2wkAAOSwittdoxx7&redirect=mobile (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1973-Lotus-Europa-Twin-Cam-Special-Complete-Original-Barn-Find/274050503383?hash=item3fceaed2d7:g:2wkAAOSwittdoxx7&redirect=mobile) auction is anything to go by!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Dan C 2624R on Sunday,October 13, 2019, 01:10:03 PM
Glen,

I looked at my speedo connection and I also have interference.
Mine is 1973 and 2624R.  Pictures are in third also.

Single zip tie on the frame corner hold the cable secure(?) or at least in one place.

Dan
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,October 23, 2019, 06:18:46 PM
Hi everyone, sorry to be off line for a while but there has been a lot going on. I sold my 64 Elan S1 to a really nice Lotus Enthusiast who deserved the multi year restoration and award winning car I built. Then I bought a 2005 Lotus Elise for "future use".  I think I have a buyer for my 65 Elan S2 and i'm finishing up some details on my Europa before I post some national ads to sell it.

So, the subject at hand...….the Europa TC.  I have a short list of things to complete on it that I am working through. One of them was to attach a clip at the rear transmission bracket to hold the speedo cable away from the shift tube when I'm in third gear. Bruce made the suggestion and I executed it (Thanks Bruce!).  Seems to work very well.

Today I went to Bill Thomas' Garage Club to have the Europa weighed as inquiring minds wanted to know (inclusive of me).  Bill does a fair amount of race prep on Lotus cars so I knew he would have a sophisticated scale system.  He is a very knowledgeable guy on all things related to sports cars so you can always learn something.  While Bill was preparing to lower my Europa on the scales he noticed the right rear wheel had a movement to it. He brought to my attention that something was amiss and should be looked at. Odd I thought, I just had the car on the lift last weekend and had gone over everything (typical of my first 1000+ mile detailed review of underneath the car with spanners).  Never the less, he went about setting the car down on the scales and I got a couple of photos of the read outs regarding total weight, corner weight and weight distribution. The Europa had a half tank of gas and all other fluids topped up, the spare tire with aluminum wheel mounted in the front, a fire extinguisher, but no luggage tray in the rear.

Over all, the Europa weighed more than I expected by almost 100 lbs at 1512 lbs.  But the balance of the car was where I expected it to be.  All good and no complaints from me.

Then we pulled the right rear wheel off to see what was up. The hub was loose, which really surprised me. It was ok to drive home but I wondered how that happened. Once I was home I put the car on the lift, removed the wheel and bent back the metal washer holding the axle nut in place.  I was able to take the hub off with a few taps of a hammer. That should not have happened. I went back to my photos to confirm I put Loctite on the axle splines (yup) and that I had torqued the nut to 150lbs (yup).  Odd.... I cleaned the inside of the hub and the axle splines with brake clean and a wire brush, dry fit the hub on the axle shaft and looked at all the clearances. Went back and read the manual and looked at the part manual. Everything seemed in order. I reapplied the Loctite on the splines (twice as much this time) and torqued the bolt to 150lbs, securing it with the bent washer and then bolting on the wheel. The cure setup is 1 hour and 7 hours for full cure. So I will let the car sit over night before I do a full road test.

Well, its really a race car for the street. Need to pay more attention.

Man I love driving this car! 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,October 23, 2019, 06:51:13 PM
Glad you found that before you had a problem! That could have been a really bad problem!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: literarymadness on Wednesday,October 23, 2019, 08:24:06 PM
Certified:  Thanks for weighing your TC!  Lotus measured kerb weight with gas tank empty but all other fluids topped off.  Kerb weight for a Fed spec TC was 1650 lbs and 1665 lbs for Fed spec TCS 5 speed.  15 gallons of 93 octane petrol is 96 lbs.   Figure a half-tank 45-50 lbs.; 30 lb. spare; and 5 lbs. for the fire extinguisher.  Your TC is in reality is down to S2 weight.  Ours cars have almost nearly all of the same weight savings, so they are similar weights.  Except, I have the 2 brake servos (25 lbs.) and you don't, but I have a lighter battery (4 1/2 lbs.).  Actually, I don't know the weight of your battery. but if it is normal TC battery it is over 30 lbs.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Bodzer on Wednesday,October 23, 2019, 11:41:03 PM
That is a beautiful car! Well done and thanks for the info. I’m only pushing mine around the garage at the moment but I’m amazed how easy it is to move than the Elan.

Thanks for the photos.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,October 24, 2019, 04:51:16 AM
BDA, no kidding that the loose hub was detected early on.

L/M my battery is an Odyssey PC925 which weighs 23.8 lbs.

Bodzer, thanks for the complements.  We should have connected when I was in Ireland last month!

It bothered me that one of the photos was sideways so I ended up reposting most of the photos to get one correct. So if your wondering why they are now in a different order you know the reason  8)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Thursday,October 24, 2019, 05:55:14 AM
Certified (Glen), i'm concerned about the speedo cable.   if it were me, I think i'd be happier with the very temporary touching in 3rd gear as opposed to the multiple bends/kinks you have there with the bracket.   seems to me much more friction and wear points in those bends as opposed to a more graceful straight line.   I suspect you'll have premature cable failure with that forced positioning and the chances of failure much less leaving it hang and just the occasional bump of the shifter tube in 3rd gear.
just my 2 cents.   time will tell....
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Thursday,October 24, 2019, 05:58:53 AM
Agreed.  You need a slightly longer p-clip so it's not forced against that bolt head.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,October 24, 2019, 06:00:23 AM
Ted, I was thinking same, but the last speedo cable broke at 247 miles. We will see if this install works better. By the way, if your driving back roads (and not highways) your using third gear a fair amount.

JB, I had installed a longer clip and it caused the cable to be right at the third gear location. I think I might move the clip to the other side of the trans mount. That should provide a longer curve.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Friday,October 25, 2019, 05:18:45 AM
If you look at my picture I drilled and taped a bolt on the bottom far corner of the trans mount to keep the cable as straight as possible.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Bodzer on Saturday,October 26, 2019, 03:04:56 PM
BDA, no kidding that the loose hub was detected early on.

L/M my battery is an Odyssey PC925 which weighs 23.8 lbs.

Bodzer, thanks for the complements.  We should have connected when I was in Ireland last month!

It bothered me that one of the photos was sideways so I ended up reposting most of the photos to get one correct. So if your wondering why they are now in a different order you know the reason  8)

Hi Glen,

Don’t worry, I’m due to start flying to Newark and Philadelphia soon.  I’ll come over to you! I’ve go to see that Europa in the flesh before you move it on.

Regards,

Pete
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Sunday,October 27, 2019, 12:06:28 AM
Hi Glen,

On the subject of loose hubs I'll take a wild guess and say there wasn't enough Loctite to fill the gaps between the spines/hub.  When I have to remove mine it needs a propane torch and a hub puller to get the hub moving and even then it's a slow job. 

I looked through my photos and found this one from when the car had drum brakes. It's taken just after the hub came off and you can see how much white residue there is on the splines (heat degraded Loctite). It's there as a gap filler so when the hub goes back there's so much in there that the Loctite oozes out of the end and needs cleaning off the threads before putting the washer on.

Even so, coming loose at such a low mileage is odd. The spacers shouldn't be an issue at that mileage but was the thin, folding part of the lock washer deformed ?

Brian


Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,October 27, 2019, 03:11:40 AM
Brian, thanks for the photo and comments. I suspect the reason it came loose was either loctite was old and not functional or I didn’t put enough of it on. This time I put much more (new) loctite on the splines.

The bent washer was intact and holding the nut in place. But it seemed to need another half turn to tighten it. I know I had torqued the nut to 150 lbs. The only other thing I can think of is it might be possible a bearing wasn’t full seated and it finally seated with the torqued nut and some driving. I’m doubtful this was the cause as I used a hydraulic press to seat the hub bearings and checked them afterwards.

I read somewhere to check these nuts after 100 miles when you have replaced the bearings. I am guessing this might be a common problem?

Never the less, it’s all back together and will get some miles on it to check the assembled result.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: EuropaTC on Sunday,October 27, 2019, 08:51:37 AM
Hi again,
If you could get some more movement on the nut then it does sound like something had relaxed after the initial few miles but to be honest I've no idea what that could be. 

My workshop manual has "check rear hub retention" as part of the A service which is pretty much every 3 months or so, which suggests Lotus thought it a potential problem area although perhaps that's harking back to the S1/S2 and just playing safe ?

Brian
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Sunday,October 27, 2019, 10:35:23 AM
By the time the TC came along, they added using loctite on the splines due to all the hub loosening issues.  You should use loctite on the S1/2s as well even though it's not specified in the manual.

It definitely came loose due to components settling in.  There's no other way for play to develop if the nut is locked in place.  On my recent rear axle conversion, I checked hub torque after every long drive until it stabilized.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,October 28, 2019, 05:59:48 AM
Thanks Brian & JB. You have confirmed my own thoughts on this. Will drive the car for a while and recheck it.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Monday,October 28, 2019, 06:39:01 AM
Glen, which locktite did you use? The recommended "35" no longer seems to be made. Did you use a primer? If you found some actual "35" it may have been old stock, and may have a shelf life. Was the residual Locktite on you splines still gooey when your hub came off?

 I have been flummoxed by Locktite products many times in my day job. What works once in the lab for a prototype sometimes fails miserably in production. We have done pull-off tests with 648 retaining compound and rarely get advertised strengths.

I am not facing a hub removal anytime in the near future (knock on wood) but if I were I would look into alternatives to Locktite for that purpose. Epoxies have come a long way since the 1970s and there may be a gap filler that does a better job of the intended purpose than Locktite 35.

Tom

 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,October 28, 2019, 07:57:05 AM
Loctite 35 is now 635.  It's important spec over other spline compounds is its slow cure time.  This easily gives you time to assemble it.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Bainford on Monday,October 28, 2019, 08:53:29 AM
Brian, thanks for the photo and comments. I suspect the reason it came loose was either loctite was old and not functional or I didn’t put enough of it on. This time I put much more (new) loctite on the splines.

The bent washer was intact and holding the nut in place. But it seemed to need another half turn to tighten it. I know I had torqued the nut to 150 lbs. The only other thing I can think of is it might be possible a bearing wasn’t full seated and it finally seated with the torqued nut and some driving. I’m doubtful this was the cause as I used a hydraulic press to seat the hub bearings and checked them afterwards.

I read somewhere to check these nuts after 100 miles when you have replaced the bearings. I am guessing this might be a common problem?

Never the less, it’s all back together and will get some miles on it to check the assembled result.

The Dave Bean catalogue has some interesting words on torqueing the hub nut. He suggests after getting everything together, but before bending the tab washer, take the car out to a safe, empty parking lot or similar and leaning on it hard whilst turning in each direction. Do this a few times then go home and re-torque the nut. Repeat. After a couple of rounds of this procedure, then finalise the nut torque and bend the tab washer.

If I had the cataloque with me I could scan and attach the page, but I'm at work right now. Nonetheless, it sounds like such a regimen may have prevented this 'near miss'. I am very glad it was caught when it was.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: literarymadness on Monday,October 28, 2019, 12:36:47 PM
Certified: I tied off the speedometer cable with a tie wrap a couple of years ago when I replaced the cable and have not had a problem.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,October 28, 2019, 12:45:07 PM
Bainford, Surf & JB, I’m fairly convinced the issue was both the hub not being fully seated and not enough loctite. I did not use primer but I cleaned all the surfaces with lacquer thinner and then let everything dry. Both of those situations are now remedied.

L/M, I like your simple solution. Even better is the gentle curve of the speedo cable!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,November 06, 2019, 04:33:33 PM
Latest video of my Europa Twin Cam

https://youtu.be/dlaZESDiYes
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Steve_Lindford on Wednesday,November 06, 2019, 11:48:32 PM
I would have thought that re torquing the nut after the locktite has set would mean the locktite would fail...     ??
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Thursday,November 07, 2019, 02:44:49 AM
   Nice video Certified, that link should be on your eBay post. That engine sounds GREAT!
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Thursday,November 07, 2019, 06:59:59 AM
If you use the proper slow-setting loctite, it would work.  You'd have to wait until the car was ready for the road before fitting and tightening the rear hubs.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,November 07, 2019, 06:41:49 PM
Yahoo, 60,000 views! Thanks for everyone’s interest in my restoration journey and all your support  :beerchug:

This is such a great forum and community.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: literarymadness on Thursday,November 07, 2019, 06:47:47 PM
 :beerchug: Congrats on 60,000 views and for all the information brought to the table because of your build.

L/M
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,November 07, 2019, 07:28:49 PM
That is a great milestone, Certified! I think that milestone speaks for itself! It was/is a great topic with great discussions and a great result - your car!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Dilkris on Friday,November 08, 2019, 07:58:13 AM
I wish my Europa was in this condition - you have done well !!!  I notice you have adjustable lower links on the rear suspension, although one of them has been used as a jacking point and is now bent..... Spend lots of time time on your rear hubs, assuming they have not been previously worked on I can guarantee they will require it; I had to helicoil all 16 fixings in the casings for the mounting of the radius arms using 3xD helicoils and thereafter had to machine and press fit steel sleeves for the 6206RSR wheel bearings as the previous had been turning in the hubs - surprise surprise the bearing spacers had to replaced as well...
I live across the pond and machining costs here are on par with private dentistry and lawyers charge out rates - I successfully managed to do all the machining on the rear hubs myself with an EMCO Unimat Lathe, (about as big as a Myford 7), having first made a boring bar.   
As fellow members will confirm, these rear hubs are critical to a successful rebuild and please - forget about loctite for holding the rear wheel bearings in place if they are loose in the hubs....                 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,November 12, 2019, 02:25:01 AM
 Dilkris, You might be confusing my car with another? I don’t have adjustable lower links on the rear suspension and I definitely don’t have bent ones (these are brand new OEM links that have never been touched by a jack or jack stand). Also, my TC Europa has just gone through a 3 year restoration with every part disassembled and rebuilt. The rear hubs received new bearings And everything was assembled to spec. Trust me, the bearings are not loose in the hubs and the spacer is installed between the inner and outer bearing.

I’ve put a couple hundred miles on the car since my loose right rear wheel. The re-set of using new loctite and torquing the axle nut solved the problem. All good!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Dilkris on Wednesday,November 20, 2019, 03:01:38 AM



Dilkris, You might be confusing my car with another? I don’t have adjustable lower links on the rear suspension and I definitely don’t have bent ones (these are brand new OEM links that have never been touched by a jack or jack stand). Also, my TC Europa has just gone through a 3 year restoration with every part disassembled and rebuilt. The rear hubs received new bearings And everything was assembled to spec. Trust me, the bearings are not loose in the hubs and the spacer is installed between the inner and outer bearing.


This is interesting - on the 22nd Sept 2016 you posted photo's of your car pre-rebuild; referring to your photo DSC08447, (I have tried to attach this, but am unsure if I have been successful); you can clearly see an adjustable lower link to the rear suspension, (which at some time I would suggest has been used as a jacking point, and is consequently bent.).
I have thoroughly enjoyed your journey on this rebuild and moreover admire your hard work in not only photographing it all, but also writing about it. Well done and thank you.   
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,November 20, 2019, 03:11:45 AM
I just can’t leave well enough alone.  There was a small drip that came from both sides of the transaxle where the half shafts enter the trans.  As the transaxle had been fully rebuilt with all new bearings and seals it bothered me that there was any type of leak at all.

Speaking with a number of Europa owners the majority said they all leak and trying to eliminate the leak would be an exercise in futility. Well, that’s a challenge I would gladly accept.

One of my Europa friends (Roman) has been through this multiple times with his spectacular award winning black twin cam.  He has had his half shafts out many times to replace the O-Rings behind the spacer and in front of the bearing collar, wanting to eliminate the slow drip. Roman had a full stock of soft, medium hard and flat o-rings that have been used to see what works the best. We had a robust conversation about this and came to the conclusion that most of these Transaxles are now 40 plus years old and they are just worn to the point that the o-rings won’t completely seal the splines as the tolerances are long gone.

Never the less, I wanted to try to reseal the transaxle half shaft input area to see if it was possible to eliminate the dripping. i was also going to change the gear oil to Red Line MTL gear oil which is thinner than what I was using so I knew my drip would only get worse.

After my conversation with a Roman and a baggie filled with three types of o-rings (I must be getting old. In my youth a baggie had something else than o-rings that I couldn’t wait to get home with) I spoke with my good friend and master sports car mechanic Drew to get his opinion as Drew helped me rebuild the transaxle. His advice was to re-install the manufactures recommended size o-rings. Now usually I do what ever Drew says........but this time I deducted for wear and new thinking and decided on using the flat edged o-rings instead of the round edge o-rings.

This past weekend I brought my Europa over to Drew’s toasty warm garage (he has a wood burning stove in his garage) and we went about jacking the car up, dropping the suspension, drained the gear oil and removed the inboard half shafts from the transaxle. The o-rings installed were in excellent shape. No distortion or tears. Cleaned the entire area of gear oil, made sure the collar was nice and smooth as it rotates inside the seal and installed the new flat edged o-rings. Put sealant on the threads of the capture plate, tightened to spec, confirmed right number of shims were installed on both sides and reassembled everything. Then added 3.6 pints of gear oil as per spec.

I drove the car for about 50 miles afterwards (It was a glorious chilly fall day with blue skies and very little traffic on the back roads) and parked it in my garage.

The next morning I went out to the garage, got into the Lotus position (on my hands and knees peering under the rear of the Europa) and confirmed no drip!

Let’s see how long that lasts.....  But I have the satisfaction that the day spent replacing o-rings was not a total waste of time.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,November 20, 2019, 03:26:00 AM
Dilkris, sorry about that. I didn’t realize you were referring to the picture from 3 years ago before I restored my Europa. Yes, absolutely correct. Adjustable rear links that were both bent. One side worse than the other! 

After spending three years learning everything there is to know about these sports cars that are really race cars for road use I have come to fully understand why so many are in states of dis-repair.  The Europa is really a race car. And race cars need lots of mechanical attention. If you read the service recommendations for this car you will note that the manufacturer makes recommendations of very regular checking of nuts and bolts that would typically never be looked at once you bought a car. Most people aren’t mechanically inclined nor do they want to pay a shop for preventive maintenance every thousand miles. More over, I’m confident that many garage’s that worked on other British sports cars had no idea what they were getting into when a Europa showed up for maintenance work if they weren’t a Lotus shop.   

Thanks for your complements on my work and the detailing of my restoration process. The entire journey was very satisfying......and I’m still learning despite being done with the project.  :trophy:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Rosco5000 on Wednesday,November 20, 2019, 04:37:11 PM
I have to ask, what Ferrari is that lurking in front of your Europa??  Front engine, V12, is it a Daytona?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,November 20, 2019, 09:36:51 PM
I have to ask, what Ferrari is that lurking in front of your Europa??  Front engine, V12, is it a Daytona?

365 GT4
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Fotog on Thursday,November 21, 2019, 07:09:09 AM
Glen:  do you have a picture of the inside of the seal nut?  I understand that's where the seal and O-ring go, but despite the cross-section that Ray says shows it all, I don't really understand what it looks like.

Vince
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: cwtech on Friday,November 22, 2019, 02:59:06 PM
If the leak is following the splines, wouldn't a thin smear of RTV or silicone on the splines (inside the u-joint) stop the leak?

Once the half-shaft is shimmed & pinned, there should be no movement on the splines. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,November 23, 2019, 06:12:07 AM
Glen:  do you have a picture of the inside of the seal nut?  I understand that's where the seal and O-ring go, but despite the cross-section that Ray says shows it all, I don't really understand what it looks like.

Vince

Vince, I went through my 352 4 speed transaxle rebuild photos and didn't find the detail pics your looking for of the inside of bearing retaining nut (I tried to photograph each part and step but wasn't always successful).  I do have one of the retaining nuts laying on the table next to the end of transaxle housing, and a pic of it installed in the transaxle with the shims,but that is not what your looking for (I think you want to see the inside of the retaining nut).  Care must be taken when tightening this retaining nut to insure the proper amount of backlash (described in detail on supplemental workshop manual for TC on page 28 for the 352 transaxle).

The part sequence is shaft, O-ring, sleeve, shims, yoke.

Here are the photos I do have. You will note the shaft has an indent for the placement of the o-ring.  The sleeve fits against this next.  Then you installed the retaining nut and the required number of shims on each side and then install the yoke and pin.

The felt inside the retaining nut is just a dust shield. Make sure you put sealant on the threads of the retaining nut otherwise they will leak gear oil.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Fotog on Saturday,November 23, 2019, 07:06:48 AM
Thanks Glen.  Apparently I misunderstood.  Probably more questions later.
-V
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Saturday,November 23, 2019, 08:37:58 AM
The tricky bit is that “sleeve/seal run” also has a groove for the o-ring.  You have to push the sleeve on so it “pops” over the o-ring.  It’s not easy to do.  It’s also easy to damage the oil-ring while pushing the sleeve in place.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,November 23, 2019, 07:23:28 PM
Very important tip JB. Thanks for chiming in. What we did was confirm the o-ring was seated properly by turning the spacer around and pushing against the o-ring to make sure it was seated properly. Then pulled the spacer off and installed with the “grove” towards the o-ring. Important to lube the o-ring so it fits appropriately.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,November 24, 2019, 04:07:41 AM
If the leak is following the splines, wouldn't a thin smear of RTV or silicone on the splines (inside the u-joint) stop the leak?

Once the half-shaft is shimmed & pinned, there should be no movement on the splines.

Perhaps that could be done if you have exhausted replacing o-rings and it still leaks. I doubt it will last very long as the two shafts have movement and the silicone “seal” will eventually break down. Personally, I’m not a fan of those type of fixes.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: 4173R on Sunday,November 24, 2019, 01:16:13 PM
Glen -

Wondering if the seal still holding?

No drips?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,November 24, 2019, 03:31:10 PM
No drips  8)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: jbcollier on Monday,November 25, 2019, 05:54:57 AM
Now there will be no living with him...

;-)

PS: I have one side that's completely dry and one that has "light weeping".  It forms a drip but virtually never actually drips.  No need for an oil top up after two years so I'm leaving well-enough alone!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,November 25, 2019, 06:41:11 AM
Ha! Nice one JB !
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,November 25, 2019, 06:47:50 AM
Despite the fact that I’m selling the Europa I’m still working on little details to “finish it”.  One of those is the trim piece above the rear window that goes against the headliner.

The OEM part was a piece of cardboard and was broken in several places. I glued the broken pieces together to make a template and then transferred the dimensions to a piece of fiberboard. Cut out the template with a razor knife and then dry mounted a piece of black vinyl that matched the interior to the fiber board. Trimmed the vinyl and then painted the edges black.

Looks better than original, should last another 40+ years. Need to install it.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Monday,November 25, 2019, 11:54:49 AM
  Nice work Certified,
 You really should autograph it somewhere. Built by Glen...😃😃 just a little plaque in the door jamb.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,November 25, 2019, 04:38:48 PM
How kind of you to say that Dave. In some way all my cars get an “autograph”. I put one of these some where  in each car I rebuild.......

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,November 25, 2019, 04:56:14 PM
An artist should sign his work!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,November 25, 2019, 05:33:22 PM
Here are my various Lotus builds over the last several years. All bear my “signature” of being built as I see fit. (My first Lotus Elise is missing as all I did to that was install a killer stereo system).  The Lotus kart was delivered to me as a rolling chassis. I built it up from there. The last photo is my current “project”, a 2005 Elise that I’m rebuilding and “enhancing” for “retirement”.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,November 26, 2019, 12:00:57 PM
That should keep you busy in your retirement!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,December 12, 2019, 11:10:07 AM
Not many clear weather driving days left in this year, especially in the North East. A big front came through last night and the barometer zoomed high. It was chilly, blue skies and no salt on the road. Time for a drive in the Europa.......might be my last due to the approaching winter. There was still some traces of snow on the bushes, but the roads where clear. Off to Lambertville NJ I went enjoying every moment of the throaty exhaust, sublime handling and hardly a car on the road to impede my foot to the floor adventure.  Stopped at an antique store, bought my wife a Christmas present and came outside to watch all the people stopping to look at my car. I stood back and watched for a while. One woman was taking pictures next to me and said the whole town has been coming out to look at the yellow car. I smiled to myself and waited until everyone left. Then off I went roaring back to Princeton. Somehow I felt like Santa........
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: literarymadness on Thursday,December 12, 2019, 01:47:25 PM
It's funny; it is the opposite down here.  This is the season in Florida to drive your Europa comfortably without baking yourself in the humid heat.  Of course unless, your car is yellow and has A/C. :)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,December 12, 2019, 01:49:03 PM
Hey 'madness, don't rub it in! ::)
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Thursday,December 12, 2019, 04:13:37 PM
 Certified,
 Glad you’re still getting out with it. You did an exquisite job on it and should bask in the light of spreading joy.  I miss those shops of a small town alongside Main Street.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Friday,December 13, 2019, 06:15:37 AM
Milford NJ about 20 miles North ?
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Friday,December 13, 2019, 06:33:02 AM
Milford NJ about 20 miles North ?
Allen's Antiques?   any relation??
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: brucelotus26r on Friday,December 13, 2019, 07:56:41 AM
No went to the Fish & Chips place for lunch !
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,December 24, 2019, 08:15:55 PM
Christmas Eve drive with my niece’s boyfriend.  It was 50 degrees F today. Really nice day. Merry Christmas everyone!

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Tuesday,December 24, 2019, 09:11:36 PM
Merry Christmas back at you, Certified!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Thursday,December 26, 2019, 02:43:24 AM
   Merry Christmas. Certified,  two big Christmas smiles , nothing can top that.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Saturday,February 01, 2020, 04:47:07 PM
  Certified I know you can add a few more post to this build. How is it running. Any more midnight runs? Let’s get you back on page 1. 👍👍
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,February 02, 2020, 05:18:13 AM
I’m smiling at you Dave. Thanks! I have had a few drives when we have had mild weather days here in the NE. My Europa is running great and there are times when I question my selling of this car. This car is really so enjoyable to drive. As said before, it’s really much nicer than my Elan’s from a handling standpoint. All that being said, I’ve committed to downsize my collect of classic Lotus cars as I transition to a simpler life with no full workshop once I move.

I’ve been fiddling with a couple of small details ‘cause my eye always finds something. That’s just the way it goes in my shop  8)

No late night runs this time of year. The deer are out everywhere at night during the winter.......standing right by the road. Gotta wonder what they are thinking. They’ve got thousands of acres of woodland and fields to roam in and they stand in herds next to the road......

By the way, my current “new” Lotus project is sitting on my lift. Lots of mods being done. It will be another GRS Motorsports custom car. This one I’m taking with me.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Monday,February 03, 2020, 04:24:01 PM
Okay 👌 I gotta see some pics of that. Meanwhile I’ll be goggling GRS since I now nothing of this world. My life was consumed by aircraft, family and working on my house. It’s nice now to smell the roses.  I really need to downsize also.
Dave
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Kendo on Friday,February 14, 2020, 03:17:30 PM
Certified, that was a great read. And I'm glad you made it to LOG. Since I read a speedrun through your build speedrun to get clues about adjusting the shift mechanism, I thought I'd give a bit back by indexing what I found on the subject.

[Assuming everyone has the same pagination, currently at 89 pages...]

Pages 15-18 Decide whether to rebuild the linkage or move to a cable shifter
Pages 37-40 Assembly
Page 60        Final adjustment

It turned out I was in pretty good shape, just needing to replace the tophat washer/bushings up front. So, aside from documenting everything, thanks for easing my mind on th subject.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,February 14, 2020, 04:54:59 PM
Glad you enjoyed the read of my rebuild Kendo. And thanks for providing an index of the shift mechanism decisions and final install. Good luck with your own project. I found mine to be a very rewarding experience. Particularly with all the support and encouragement from members on this forum.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,February 23, 2020, 09:28:50 AM
A beautiful sunny day here in Princeton. Amazing for February 23rd! My Europa has been waiting for this day........
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Saturday,March 07, 2020, 08:45:25 PM
Several posts ago I mentioned a new project in my garage...........
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Sunday,March 08, 2020, 04:45:58 AM
  I can’t wait to read the sequel. :pirate:
 
  Nice!
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,March 19, 2020, 05:28:17 PM
SOLD to a Lotus Enthuiast located in the US.  Just in time for the spring driving weather.  Great memories of this build and even better memories of the drives. 
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Thursday,March 19, 2020, 05:47:02 PM
Congratulations on the sale!  :beerchug: Glad you sold it but sorry you don't have it anymore!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,March 23, 2020, 02:06:33 PM
Just noticed this post has over 70,000 views. Wow!  Thanks to all of you that may be using my build as a reference for your own restorations.  Good luck to all and I hope you enjoy the entire process as much as I did.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Monday,March 23, 2020, 04:01:38 PM
  I guess my last post did not go thru, Glen. It went something like this:
 
 I hope you steered the new owner here so we all can get reacquainted. I’m sure he/she will have some   
Great stories of some long ride trips. Maybe even a LOG event and some more trophies for his collection.

We value your input and newbies will listen 😀
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Monday,March 23, 2020, 08:16:04 PM
This thread is the top topic according to the number of replies!!!

Congratulations to you, Certified, for having the top topic, a great build, and (presumably) a great sale!  :beerchug:

Even though you no longer have a Europa, I hope you find a reason to hang around!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,March 24, 2020, 02:55:42 AM
  I guess my last post did not go thru, Glen. It went something like this:
 
 I hope you steered the new owner here so we all can get reacquainted. I’m sure he/she will have some   
Great stories of some long ride trips. Maybe even a LOG event and some more trophies for his collection.

We value your input and newbies will listen 😀
Dakazman

Thanks Dave. My restoration blog was the reason Grundy Insurance would insure my Europa TC  for $40K.  I directed the potential buyer of my Europa to this site and my detailed write-up which he read with great interest. It was what convinced him to buy the car.

Each of my Lotus rebuilds has been a journey with lots of memories that will last a lifetime. This Europa had the most memories and it represented a true team effort with all the help I got from many of you along the way.  And some of you got to help me in person. Many thanks to all. I’m pleased others will pick up some info along the way that will help in their restoration.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Tuesday,March 24, 2020, 02:58:36 AM
This thread is the top topic according to the number of replies!!!

Congratulations to you, Certified, for having the top topic, a great build, and (presumably) a great sale!  :beerchug:

Even though you no longer have a Europa, I hope you find a reason to hang around!

No worries BDA, I have Europa blood now. I’ll still wander onto this site and read how many of the various new projects are going and perhaps chime in with some tidbit of insight. It’s truly been a great experience with all of the forum members.  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Lou Drozdowski on Tuesday,March 24, 2020, 04:30:27 AM
Glen,
There's nothing better than people coming together and working towards a common goal...friendships, and memories are the fruits of your labor. Thanks for the journey! ld
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Tuesday,March 24, 2020, 07:56:02 AM
I too hope you will stick around Glenn. If for no other reason than answer questions from future generations of Europa restorers who will benefit from this book of a thread you wrote.
Cheers,
Tom
 :beerchug:
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,March 25, 2020, 04:09:06 AM
Glen,
There's nothing better than people coming together and working towards a common goal...friendships, and memories are the fruits of your labor. Thanks for the journey! ld

Absolutely great memories Lou! Thanks for helping get the rear window in!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Wednesday,March 25, 2020, 04:10:25 AM
I too hope you will stick around Glenn. If for no other reason than answer questions from future generations of Europa restorers who will benefit from this book of a thread you wrote.
Cheers,
Tom
 :beerchug:

Thanks Tom! I’ll be around with a few comments here and there. Glad we got to meet in person at LOG!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,March 29, 2020, 01:44:34 PM
Said goodbye to my three year Europa TC project. The entire experience was a great adventure and I learned a lot. The best part of the entire rebuild/restoration was all the new friends I made along the way. Now when I see a Europa I know the secrets behind the enthusiast’s compete admiration for this exotic sports car.

I bought this Europa from the second owner who lives in Minnesota. Amazingly, the person who bought this Europa from me also lives in Minnesota. And that is where it’s headed.

On to my next Lotus adventure.........which I’m half way through the planned mods.

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Sunday,March 29, 2020, 02:07:48 PM
Those are some sad pictures...
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Tuesday,March 31, 2020, 05:41:26 AM
  Sad for sure.
And  with a deep breath it’s gone.
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: tedtaylor on Saturday,April 04, 2020, 06:30:25 PM
yes, but on the other hand, i'm quite delighted that decent money is spent on a very deserving Lotus.   I love seeing big money being shelled out for the purchase.   it's about time, and still falls short of other Marques less deserving IMHO and mass produced!   these rare,  hand built, limited production, racing pedigree, artistic beauties, are still undervalued and should fetch big bucks!

Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: BDA on Saturday,April 04, 2020, 07:01:18 PM
I agree, Ted. I celebrate every well sold Europa sale. I also celebrate Certified's sale at what I expect was very favorable to him. I guess it's an issue of perspective. If those pictures were of a great Europa being delivered to a friend rather than being picked up at a friend's house to be delivered to an unknown new owner, I would have a much different sentiment.

Actually all participants should be congratulated and the new owner is of course welcome to join us and I hope he does!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: chrisbeck on Thursday,June 04, 2020, 02:01:00 AM
"Set everything up and started on the new fiberglass instrument binnacle for the tach, speedo and function display lights (The OEM binnacle was warped from heat).  This required drilling of a number of holes to prep for install. Made a Loews run as I didn't have 6 x 1/2 stainless steel screws in stock. Need those to screw the binnacle to the back of the dash."

I'm looking at options to make a copy of the instrument binnacle in fibreglass. Can I ask, did you make yours or purchase it?
Thanks, Chris
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Thursday,June 04, 2020, 04:29:46 AM
Chris, I bought the binnacle off eBay. Someone is making them here in the US. Unfortunately I don’t have the info as it’s in the binder that went with the car when I sold it.
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: chrisbeck on Thursday,June 04, 2020, 04:41:13 AM
Thanks for your quick reply. I might make a mould plug from the original. Good practice for the centre console!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Thursday,June 04, 2020, 06:58:32 AM
 
"Set everything up and started on the new fiberglass instrument binnacle for the tach, speedo and function display lights (The OEM binnacle was warped from heat).  This required drilling of a number of holes to prep for install. Made a Loews run as I didn't have 6 x 1/2 stainless steel screws in stock. Need those to screw the binnacle to the back of the dash."

I'm looking at options to make a copy of the instrument binnacle in fibreglass. Can I ask, did you make yours or purchase it?
Thanks, Chris
  Hi Chris , I made a mold of the original but decided to just use it as the finished part for now.
http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=2058.975
Dakazman
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: RonPNW on Thursday,July 23, 2020, 11:10:26 PM
WOW! Fantastic write up. Just finished reading the entire posting in preparation for my restoration. It's a great way to get up to speed on my second restoration of my 1970 S2 that has been sitting for 25 years after 100,000 happy miles auto crossing and driving mountain roads in California.

Thanx
Ron
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: surfguitar58 on Friday,July 24, 2020, 05:37:17 AM
WOW! Fantastic write up. Just finished reading the entire posting in preparation for my restoration. It's a great way to get up to speed on my second restoration of my 1970 S2 that has been sitting for 25 years after 100,000 happy miles auto crossing and driving mountain roads in California.

Thanx
Ron
:Welcome: RonPNW,
Lots of restoration blogs and good advice on tap here. Tell about your project.
Tom
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Friday,July 24, 2020, 11:01:29 AM
WOW! Fantastic write up. Just finished reading the entire posting in preparation for my restoration. It's a great way to get up to speed on my second restoration of my 1970 S2 that has been sitting for 25 years after 100,000 happy miles auto crossing and driving mountain roads in California.

Thanx
Ron

Glad you enjoyed the read Ron and got a few details on how to approach your own restoration project. The reason I documented my entire project was to provide insight to others that were about to approach the same thing. Good luck on your restoration!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: RonPNW on Sunday,July 26, 2020, 11:27:51 PM
Thanx for the warm welcome.
My hat is off to anyone that does a detailed description of their rebuild. I started down that road with a Transit Van conversion and quickly felt more pressure to make progress and less to document. That may be because I found the need to do most things at least twice to get them where I wanted. I'll try to do better on this rebuild.
Still working on the general goals of the project. Certainly not a concours competition ready restoration. I intend to drive to the grocery store and not worry about shopping karts. I am torn between simply bringing it back to fun usable life versus upgrading to modern electrics, better brakes, the crossflow renault engine (I have one sitting in the corner) and a Banks rear suspension (my wife gave me a Banks frame as a wedding gift for my last restoration in the late 80's). Still cleaning up old projects to clear garage space. Hope to start in the fall.

Ron
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Monday,December 07, 2020, 05:38:32 AM
Wow. Over 85,000 views of my post. I never would have imagined. Glad it’s being used as a reference for others who are restoring their TC Europa’s.

One of my favorite Europa drives was in mid-December of last year to go Christmas shopping for my wife (my favorite drive was the road trip to/from LOG39 with my friends). Here is a a repeat of my car parked on the street during that shopping trip. Even though I no longer own this car, the memory lives on. All good!
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: dakazman on Monday,December 07, 2020, 03:39:45 PM
  I remember that pic well Glen, she will always be here for all to see.
Merry Christmas
Dakazman
Dave
Title: Re: Restoration of 2358R
Post by: Certified Lotus on Sunday,November 07, 2021, 04:20:06 AM
BDA was kind enough to create an index of my restoration blog. For those that are looking for specific information on a certain aspect of the work I did, this is a great index to locate the photos and write up. Thanks BDA!

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=4871.0