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Lotus Europa Forums => Members Cars => Topic started by: 460384 on Friday,April 03, 2015, 12:28:41 PM

Title: #460384 Restoration
Post by: 460384 on Friday,April 03, 2015, 12:28:41 PM
Hi, I purchased the Europa S1a, 460384 for full restoration about on March 11, 2015.  It is a father-son project.  We have started the process for a week or so now. The engine has a cracked liner (#2) so antifreeze leaked down to the pan. The chassis is rusted in spots. The head, cam and manifold look normal without damages. All brands/numbers (engine, gearbox, chassis, alternator, distributor, carb, starter, etc.) are correct. The car is about 95% complete with a few things missing such two hubcaps, black and silver horn button, one headlight trim ring, right side reverse lens, clip on windows, rear side Lotus championship emblems, etc.  I already got the reverse lens and Bank's one piece windows for it. If you have any of the missing parts, please let us know. I have signed up with Yahoo Europa Group as well.  Tom/Colorado
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: BDA on Friday,April 03, 2015, 12:48:25 PM
 :Welcome:

This will make a great father-son project! It sounds like you might want to do a frame off restoration to make sure you get the rust on the frame taken care of. That is more difficult and complicated on an S1 since the frame is glassed into the body.

I don't think you'll have too much trouble with most partsl, but your horn button and hub caps could be difficult. A quick look on r.d. enterprises website shows a green and yellow horn button (for $106!  :o) but a black and silver one might be tough.

Good luck and let us know how it's coming and post some pictures  :). I think here and the yahoo group are the best sources of information (there is some cross pollination) so I'm sure you're in good hands!
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: Serge on Saturday,April 04, 2015, 04:38:56 AM
Hub caps aren't too difficult, you can find NOS items from time to time and there are quality reproductions available.


Serge
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: EuropatcSPECIAL on Saturday,April 04, 2015, 02:43:01 PM
          :Welcome:                                             Welcome Tom I don't think its going to be ready by May. Good choice though. Good luck
all the best
Stuart
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: 460384 on Saturday,April 04, 2015, 09:38:09 PM
Stuart,  There is no way our Europa will be ready by May 2015.  We hope by May 2018. By the way, the original color of the 0384 is L02 French Blue. Is your TC the same color?  Tom/Colorado
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: EuropaTC on Saturday,April 04, 2015, 11:18:34 PM
Hi Tom, and  :Welcome:

That looks an amazingly complete car you've found, even the center dash panel looks original so it will be a great restoration project.

The black horn buttons or just the inserts come up regularly on Ebay UK, there seems to be a few guys who have old stocks of these things. But be warned, they go are very expensive because they are also fitted to the Elans and in the UK all Elans are now fetching serious money hence components rise accordingly.

Aside from the actual button emblem, the rest is the same as fitted to Triumphs of the day, and presumably many other cars, so you'll be able to get the mechanism relatively cheaply. On my Elan I bought one and replaced the Triumph badge with a black plastic domed wheel badge glued to a carrier plate. The font isn't the correct one but only an expert is going to tell the difference so that's one way forward.

Brian
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: 460384 on Sunday,April 05, 2015, 08:57:55 AM
Brain,

Thank you for the tips on the horn button.  I know market price for a good original one is about US $100 a piece. Any ideas where I can get a set of original center caps (62 mm) for 13 x 5.5 Revolution wheels?

Tom
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: EuropaTC on Sunday,April 05, 2015, 09:14:44 AM
I'd guess Ebay UK would be the best option for the revolution wheel centre caps.  They were very popular over here in the 60s & 70s and there might even be a market for reproduction items.

Failing that you can buy plain "universal" caps in different diameters - that might work with another Ebay purchase for the resin domed wheel badge. It sounds tacky but I've been amazed at what you can get these days and with a bit of care it looks right.

Brian
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: 3929R on Monday,April 06, 2015, 06:48:20 AM
 :Welcome: How old is your son? I trust he is appropriately stoked!
Please post pics of your progress.
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: 460384 on Monday,April 06, 2015, 07:26:29 AM
Mark,

He is 17, a bit concerned about the conditions of the car. I feel the same way.  We both have visited several websites about others who had done the S1 restoration work. It is complex, especially what you have to do to remove the chassis.  We will work on it one day a time.  It is going to be a long process.  Will keep everyone informed.

Tom     
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: EuropaTC on Friday,April 10, 2015, 09:25:32 AM
Hi Tom,

I guess this is far too early for your interest, but if you really do want an early horn button there is one on UK Ebay at the moment. It was on at a BIN around £100 but seems not to have sold and the seller has left it at either BIN or an auction. No affiliation with the seller. (and yep, I still think these are crazy prices, but that does seem to be the going rate these days)

Brian

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-lotus-cortina-mk1-Elan-original-nos-hornpush-/261844886121? (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-lotus-cortina-mk1-Elan-original-nos-hornpush-/261844886121?)
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: blasterdad on Friday,April 10, 2015, 03:03:08 PM
 :Welcome: :coolpic:
Good to see another Father/Son project, I have a '71 S2 Father/Son project, (mostly Father).  :FUNNY:
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: 460384 on Friday,April 10, 2015, 03:39:57 PM
Hi Tom,

I guess this is far too early for your interest, but if you really do want an early horn button there is one on UK Ebay at the moment. It was on at a BIN around £100 but seems not to have sold and the seller has left it at either BIN or an auction. No affiliation with the seller. (and yep, I still think these are crazy prices, but that does seem to be the going rate these days)

Brian

Thanks.  Never to early for rear parts.  I will track it.  They go for US$100 in the US.  Tom

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-lotus-cortina-mk1-Elan-original-nos-hornpush-/261844886121? (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-lotus-cortina-mk1-Elan-original-nos-hornpush-/261844886121?)
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: BDA on Friday,April 10, 2015, 05:55:41 PM
I'm thinking you had something of your own to say, did you forget it, 460384?   :FUNNY:
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: 460384 on Saturday,April 11, 2015, 06:32:53 AM
Brian

Thanks.  Never to early for rear parts.  I will track the horn button on eBay/UK.  They go for US$100 in the US. Does anyone know where I can get the wiper arm and blade for S1? any X-reference on this?   

Tom
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: EuropaTC on Saturday,April 11, 2015, 10:12:03 AM
 :)

I get like that as well Tom. And probably more frequently than most other folks on this forum.....

I'll also be interested to see how it goes and have it in my "watch" list. Although to my mind these things are a $10 bit of plastic, not a $100 piece of fine art like some folks seem to think. When I can remember I'll post a photo of my Elan wheel with it's fake horn push so you can see just how close you can get for little money plus some time.

Brian

edit to add.....  I really am so far out of these things. My regular Ebay search email has just come up with this one.....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ford-lotus-cortina-mk1-Elan-genuine-nos-hornpush-/261846808449? (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ford-lotus-cortina-mk1-Elan-genuine-nos-hornpush-/261846808449?)

£149....  ($218)  I really will have to set up my workshop to make these things !!!!
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: Chuck Nukem on Tuesday,April 14, 2015, 08:17:52 PM
Howdy Tom,
Our cars are 8 apart by birth! I have 460392 which is also in need of serious restoration. I am looking forward to your progress. Please take lots of pics when you remove the frame. Mine had it removed before I got it. Tell me you are going to get rid of those turn signals on the nose!
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: 460384 on Saturday,May 02, 2015, 02:27:09 AM
Chuck,

You are right about the turn signals.  That was the first thing I removed from the nose.  I still have hard time to take the front bumper off.  The bolts and nuts are very rusty.  I will take a lot of pics so I can remember where all the parts came from.  It is hard to keep track of them.

Tom/Colorado

Tom/Colorado
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: jbcollier on Saturday,May 02, 2015, 06:35:58 AM
Cut the nuts off and get new chrome bolts.  They are readily available.
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: EuropatcSPECIAL on Wednesday,May 06, 2015, 02:23:49 PM
Hello Tom, no its not French Blue its Lagoon Blue. It was Sable when it left the factory and it has been in JPS colours.
good luck with your project
all the best
Stuart
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: 460384 on Monday,August 31, 2015, 08:18:06 AM
No much process made on 460384.  We have been busy with 2141R (PO Brent Powell, TX) last 4 months. It has been parked for the last 5-6 years. We got it running and drove to Log35 two weeks ago.  My son and I will get back on the S1 soon.  We will cut the frame out from the bottom and try to keep everything stock if we can. 
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: 460384 on Thursday,September 03, 2015, 09:39:36 AM
I took my S1a LOTUS VIN/Data plate off in the front compartment yesterday and found it is white color behind it, not French Blue as the rest of the front compartments.  Is this normal because all Europa cars were white first before Lotus painted them different colors? or my car was originally white. Any experience and/or ideas on this?  Tom   
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: LotusJoe on Thursday,September 03, 2015, 12:15:30 PM
Mine was painted before the vin plate was installed. Under the vin was the same color as the rest of the car.
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: EuropaTC on Thursday,September 03, 2015, 01:33:49 PM
Hi Tom,

I'd go with the car originally being White and the blue being a respray at some point. The only thought supporting that theory is that i couldn't see Lotus being that organised to know the engine number and then get a chassis plate in place before they painted the car !  Plus of course it's something they'd have to mask off although it sounds as if someone, somewhere has done that job in the past.

Random thought - were the chassis plates used on your car the ones with an area for the paint code stamp or do they pre-date that style ?

Brian
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: jbcollier on Thursday,September 03, 2015, 01:36:03 PM
Mine had five different colours and that is by no means a record.  Hard to say what your original colour was for sure as sports cars get painted so often.  Lotus painted then attached all the plates badges and what-not.  Lotus did not keep records of what colour S1s were painted.  You can certainly say that it was white before it was painted French Blue.
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: 460384 on Thursday,September 03, 2015, 04:27:08 PM
Yes, Lotus did not keep records on colors for each of S1 cars.  I asked Lotus a while back and they do not know. The S1 VIN/data plates do not have color code. Are there other areas I can check for original color?   
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: EuropaTC on Thursday,September 03, 2015, 11:00:46 PM
Are there other areas I can check for original color?
Well, assuming the blue is a respray, it depends how thorough the paint job was.   Lotus would paint the bodyshell with nothing fitted, as would most enthusiasts doing a colour change so everything looks the same.    But if the base car paintwork was in reasonable condition it's likely that in some areas - the plenum chamber, door shut areas, etc, the average painter wouldn't strip to bare fibreglass but simply rub down and paint over. Areas where I've done that bodge are door shuts, underneath the front & rear valences  and the return edges on bonnet/boot lids.

So if you really want to know it comes down to archaeology - you'll need to dig through the paint layers !  That's ok if the car is being painted, not so good if that wasn't in the plan.

I'm not so sure I'd be bothered unless a full respray was needed because as John said, sports cars tend to get painted more than your average run-about car and it wasn't unknown over here for these types of cars to be repainted in a more modern colour to refresh them for re-sale.  Strange really - these days everyone is on about originality and painting the cars as they came out of the factory  :)

Brian
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: jbcollier on Thursday,September 03, 2015, 11:02:49 PM
It all depends on how thorough the intervening painters were.  If the body was not completely stripped, then the last colour you find as you sand your way down.  I found mine in the rear window lip.
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: 460384 on Thursday,September 10, 2015, 09:03:11 AM
I am back on the job and took some more parts off the car.  The car looks like was white from the factory.  I am planning to take the frame off the body soon. There are two methods to cut the frame out, (a) cut it from under and lift the body up and (b) extract it from the engine compartment by cutting the firewall.  It appears the cutting from under the car is quicker so you do not have to take everything off the frame. I know Serge and Jim B in Canada extracted the frame from the engine bay.  I have not found any documents on cutting it from below.  What do you have to cut in order to get around the steering system which is located inside the front compartment, not under the car like TC/TCS? Any recommendations on which method (a) or (b) I should go with?
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: 460384 on Saturday,October 03, 2015, 04:42:10 PM
As of 10/03/2015, I took a pic of my engine, front and dash areas. I am making some progress. As you can see the original color of white shows up in several locations in the front. No 2 liner is cracked where the red line is pointing.
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: jbcollier on Saturday,October 03, 2015, 10:07:02 PM
The dash would have been black.
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: 460384 on Wednesday,August 10, 2016, 08:10:01 AM
We decided to stop working on the S1a.  My son is going to college next month. It is time to let the car go for $4,000.  It is still on all 4 wheels.  If you are interested, please contact me via email c4veloce@cadi-usa.com  Tom/Colorado.
Title: Re: #460384 Restoration
Post by: BDA on Wednesday,August 10, 2016, 08:19:24 AM
Sorry to hear you and your son are giving up on the car, but I understand priorities. I hope you get what you want for it.