Author Topic: Uprights - What would you do if you were making new ones?  (Read 9022 times)

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Offline andy harwood

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Re: Uprights - What would you do if you were making new ones?
« Reply #30 on: Friday,January 05, 2018, 08:09:22 AM »
I thought the estimate rather expensive too. The fab shop is close, the estimate was free, so just to get a idea, I dropped off the hub carriers. I have access to another set of hub carriers, so this may be something looked at "down the road". Unless someone gets a group effort to have some made.

Offline GavinT

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Re: Uprights - What would you do if you were making new ones?
« Reply #31 on: Friday,January 05, 2018, 06:31:46 PM »
Here's a steel upright fabricated for a replica Ford GT40.
A Europa upright wouldn't be any more difficult, I reckon.


Offline andy harwood

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Re: Uprights - What would you do if you were making new ones?
« Reply #32 on: Friday,January 05, 2018, 06:57:49 PM »
GavinT,
Great work!


Offline Grumblebuns

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Re: Uprights - What would you do if you were making new ones?
« Reply #33 on: Sunday,January 07, 2018, 10:53:38 AM »
Here's a steel upright fabricated for a replica Ford GT40.
A Europa upright wouldn't be any more difficult, I reckon.

Several years ago, Richard Mann commissioned Wayne Mitchell of Dogrings.com to cast and machine type 47 uprights. Enough people were interested enough to let the project proceed. This what Wayne produced. The last two pictures shows the size difference between the TCS hub carrier and the type 47.

Offline Serge

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Re: Uprights - What would you do if you were making new ones?
« Reply #34 on: Monday,January 08, 2018, 10:09:29 AM »
There is also a guy in the Netherlands who has had a lot of seats made, he is on the Europa facebook group.

You can also get Weerg.com to get a CNC quote online, really easy! 7075 Aluminium should be plenty strong!

Serge

Offline GavinT

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Re: Uprights - What would you do if you were making new ones?
« Reply #35 on: Monday,January 08, 2018, 04:08:55 PM »

Several years ago, Richard Mann commissioned Wayne Mitchell of Dogrings.com to cast and machine type 47 uprights. Enough people were interested enough to let the project proceed. This what Wayne produced. The last two pictures shows the size difference between the TCS hub carrier and the type 47.

Yes . . and I don't know how many sets of 47 uprights were needed to make that project viable but there would (should?) be many more punters looking for Europa uprights.

However, when ever the idea of producing cast items is floated, the discussion invariably evolves into what might be accommodated.

Some people merely want to replace their S1/S2 uprights with minimal fuss . . and maybe there's the issue of at least the appearance of originality.
Others with a TCS will need the extra material for the larger inner bearing together with the different trailing arm bolt pattern.
Still others see the opportunity to add an ear for an upper link or extra mounting points for rear disk callipers. Of course, no standard spec is ever determined because everyone has their own idea of an upper link and everyone is using different callipers.

Thus, the project inevitably expand to at least three versions.
The well meaning person undertaking the project likely has one version in mind. For instance, an S1 owner may well not have access to a pair of TCS uprights and is therefor less confident of satisfying the TCS owner that the finished parts will fit correctly.

Likely also is the fact that in this day and age, the idea of one failure in service, and the potential liability issues flowing from that, would be reason enough for a private person to have second thoughts.

I'd guess it's a little different for a type 47 upright, too. While no one wants one of those to fail either, it's more likely that they're going to be race cars and as such, the idea of some perceived guarantee/warranty/liability doesn't loom so large.

Still and all, these on line CNC shops may be worthwhile investigating as they all seem to have a free quote option.
Is there a CAD file available and has anyone done this?

But if the quotes are higher than the cost of a TIG welder, well . . .
And of course, you'd be miffed if an axle broke anyway and dragged your nice new upright on the ground as your rear wheel sailed past and into the scenery.  :(

Offline andy harwood

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Re: Uprights - What would you do if you were making new ones?
« Reply #36 on: Thursday,January 11, 2018, 08:17:08 AM »
An in depth discussion on this topic is ongoing over on the yahoo group
Also, it was mentioned that Banks is reproducing them now.
« Last Edit: Thursday,January 11, 2018, 08:18:58 AM by andy harwood »

Offline Type 74

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Re: Uprights - What would you do if you were making new ones?
« Reply #37 on: Saturday,January 13, 2018, 12:49:05 AM »
Carlsson, it looks like you've settled on making a new casting. Another member did just that but I don't think he gave any details about his except that his was solid. Have you thought about fabricating rear uprights?

I visited a race team that was the factory Oldsmobile effort in IMSA many years ago. While the car wasn't successful, it was very advanced with a lot of honeycomb, etc. One thing I noticed is that the uprights were fabricated. I also remember from my racing days that my Lola had a fabricated rear cross member and my buddy's March Formula Atlantic car's similar cast cross member weighed about the same and mine was certainly cheaper.

Just a thought.

No, I'm not going to make new uprights, but I'm considering mounting upper link arms. I've looked at a lotus that's rebuilt like this.

Offline BDA

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Re: Uprights - What would you do if you were making new ones?
« Reply #38 on: Saturday,January 13, 2018, 06:22:37 AM »
Very interesting approach! I'd love to see it when it's done!

Offline surfguitar58

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Re: Uprights - What would you do if you were making new ones?
« Reply #39 on: Saturday,January 13, 2018, 08:08:10 AM »
Is this in addition to the stock radius arm?
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
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Offline Type 74

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Re: Uprights - What would you do if you were making new ones?
« Reply #40 on: Saturday,January 13, 2018, 11:22:37 AM »
Is this in addition to the stock radius arm?


Yes, is it with the stock radius arm? Here are more pictures on a Swedish page.

https://rejsa.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=62945
« Last Edit: Saturday,January 13, 2018, 11:26:05 AM by Carlsson »

Offline BDA

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Re: Uprights - What would you do if you were making new ones?
« Reply #41 on: Saturday,January 13, 2018, 01:03:34 PM »
I didn't notice the inner attachments for the lower links. If the geometry is good, that's a better setup than stock or even Richard's twin link design because the position of the inner attachments don't move with movement in the engine/tranny.

Offline Grumblebuns

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Re: Uprights - What would you do if you were making new ones?
« Reply #42 on: Wednesday,March 07, 2018, 10:32:21 AM »
This topic reminded me that my machinist expressed an interest in developing a rear upright that will be an improvement to the stock one. I dropped off a few rear bearing housings/uprights, both for a S2 and a TCS for him to examine along with a rear stub axle for the S2. His initial comments were to beef up the flange area where the upright bolts to the trailing arm. The second was to go to a common bearing size for both inner and outer bearings. His other suggestion was to upgrade the stub axle with better material and a larger diameter. He also wants to make the upright the same for both the S2 and the TC/TCS. With different bolt patterns between the S2/TC and TCS, he may have to drill and tap eight holes (16) per upright to accommodate this if it's even possible.

Next time I talk with my machinist, I'll discuss the possibility of accommodating a way to add a rear disc setup in case someone wants to go that route. My goal is to get the cost down to about $1500/side or lower. This will include the bearing housing, stub axle and nut, spacer (if used) and possibly the bearings. I'll be on the hook for the first prototype no matter how much it costs so once Wayne is ready to proceed, I'll have to decide whether to give him the go ahead or shelve the project due to cost. We shall see how this project develops.

One advantage of working with Wayne is that he's sympathetic to our cause and I suspect that he will give me a price break on his labor cost as he did with the high balance tube manifold he machined for me. I'll give updates periodically on the progress.

Offline BDA

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Re: Uprights - What would you do if you were making new ones?
« Reply #43 on: Wednesday,March 07, 2018, 12:00:44 PM »
That sounds like an interesting project! I'd like to see what you end up with, Joji.

Offline Richard48Y

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Re: Uprights - What would you do if you were making new ones?
« Reply #44 on: Friday,March 01, 2024, 09:28:19 PM »
Cold nights and chasing links brought me to this old thread.
So it's a resurrection tonight.
Read the whole thing and disappointed it seems no one ever finished up an improved design.
I've also been reading up on substitute stub axles.
Leaving my S2 stock for now but if I run into any issues the Corvair axle and tapered bearings swap looks like the way to go since I prefer to keep the original type axles.