Author Topic: Installing a Spitfire Master Cylinder on a Federal Europa  (Read 8559 times)

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Offline surfguitar58

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Re: Installing a Spitfire Master Cylinder on a Federal Europa
« Reply #15 on: Friday,March 23, 2018, 06:17:01 AM »
Joji: I was not aware the stock TCS M/C was stepped! Do you happen to recall what the diameters are? (I tried to back stock M/C diameters out of your numbers but keep getting a larger bore for the fronts than the rears, which I think is wrong way around.)

Regarding the economics of sleeving vs Spitfire, the way I pictured it going is I buy someone’s junk TCS M/C for $50, machine a 304 SS sleeve myself ($20 for 7/8” x 5/8” SS tube blank and tube of Permatex sleeve retainer), turn the pistons down myself, buy a Spitfire rebuild kit for the .700” seals ($25). So, in my head I’m into it for $100 + my time. Honestly, I have about a 50% confidence level I could make this work, which is why I’m not going to experiment on my own perfectly good M/C.

Brian: I thought about your idea of using innards from a Spitfire M/C in the sleeved Girling, but the lengths and location of the piston flanges would have to be the same as the Stock M/C. This is why I’d still like to get my hands on an old TCS M/C to reverse engineer it.

I’m very interested in your take on pedal travel. I actually love the short throw on my current brake pedal (applied with he-man force) and realize I would be giving that up with the small-bore M/C. So, you find .75” is the Goldilocks diameter? What Europa version do you have and did you make any other brake mods?
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Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Offline EuropaTC

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Re: Installing a Spitfire Master Cylinder on a Federal Europa
« Reply #16 on: Friday,March 23, 2018, 08:19:30 AM »
I’m very interested in your take on pedal travel. I actually love the short throw on my current brake pedal (applied with he-man force) and realize I would be giving that up with the small-bore M/C. So, you find .75” is the Goldilocks diameter? What Europa version do you have and did you make any other brake mods?

On the pedal travel thing, it's something that you can easily model on a spreadsheet and if you do then you'll wonder what all the fuss is about because the numbers aren't massively different. 

But....  I found that the perception of how much my right foot moved to apply the brakes overruled the maths despite me constantly telling myself "this is less travel than the Elan" and it just kept niggling away.   I guess it's the angle the pedal went to that made the impression on me because the Europa had about 4cm travel compared to over 4.5cm travel on the Elan using the same master cylinder (bigger caliper pistons/different pedal ratios on the Elan) and yet I thought the Elan pedal felt tight, the Europa too near the floor.

The OEM setup on my car (a TC) was a single circuit 0.7" m/cyl with servo and personally 0.75" would be as far as I'd want to go without a servo/booster on the OEM layout. I ran 0.75" diameter as a single circuit system on the OEM discs and drums for many years both with & without a servo, the only issue I found was that I needed higher friction pads without a servo to feel confident in traffic.  If you feel the pedal pressure is high now, maybe some higher friction pads would sort things out for you without changing m/cylinders ?

In conclusion I find it's a very personal thing, brakes are just one of those things that you have to feel happy with in your own mind.

Offline Grumblebuns

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Re: Installing a Spitfire Master Cylinder on a Federal Europa
« Reply #17 on: Friday,March 23, 2018, 09:27:27 AM »
I found an old TCS M/C core in my spare parts bin to measure. The smaller bore section for the rear brakes (front section on the M/C) measures 0.83x" and the larger bore section for the front brakes (rear section of the M/C) measures 0.87x". The measurements are as accurate as I can get with my internal bore gauge being a bit too short to barely be able to reach the back bore section.

If you're interested, I'm willing to let go of the spare TCS M/C I have for you to experiment on. The reservoir is missing but the internal pistons appear to be intact.
 

Offline surfguitar58

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Re: Installing a Spitfire Master Cylinder on a Federal Europa
« Reply #18 on: Friday,March 23, 2018, 10:45:04 AM »
I found an old TCS M/C core in my spare parts bin to measure. The smaller bore section for the rear brakes (front section on the M/C) measures 0.83x" and the larger bore section for the front brakes (rear section of the M/C) measures 0.87x". The measurements are as accurate as I can get with my internal bore gauge being a bit too short to barely be able to reach the back bore section.

If you're interested, I'm willing to let go of the spare TCS M/C I have for you to experiment on. The reservoir is missing but the internal pistons appear to be intact.
 

That would be great! Thanks Joji. PM-ing you for price and shipping details.

Interestingly, the figures I backed out of your numbers above were .8414" rear and .8792 front. Somehow I got them backwards.

Tom
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
Antoine de Saint-Exupery