Lotus Europa Community
Lotus Europa Forums => Garage => Topic started by: racurley on Monday,August 21, 2017, 11:03:11 AM
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Hello everyone!
This June, my son and I purchased a 1974 Europa TCS (#44615R) as a father/son project car. My friend's dad purchased it new in 1975 and my friend got it 8 years ago after his father passed away. I have a service receipt from 1995 at around 65k miles. It currently has 71k miles on the odometer. Not much driving the last several years. My friend had it outside covered for 5 years and then in a garage the last 3. Needless to say, it's showing the affects of the weather and from sitting.
Sitting in my garage the day it came to my house...
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4423/36578442581_37485a42ac_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XJj5B8)IMG_3882 (https://flic.kr/p/XJj5B8)
I do most of my own car maintenance and maintain my motorcycles. We are pretty handy with wrenches but, we have not done an older car restoration. When we were thinking about cars to restore, it was recommended I not start with a British sports car. So, naturally, we pick a rare one with pretty low production numbers! :P
After we got it home and went through it, we realized this was not going to be as simple as replacing some rubber bits and firing it up. After consulting some who are more knowledgeable than I, we decided to remove the body and go through the chassis to really clean it up and get it into acceptable working order. So, we have embarked on that.
- The body is in good condition other than the paint is faded a bit.
- Passenger window was broken but I have the replacement parts.
- Interior needs refurbishing.
- Dash looks like most that have sat out too long.
- Fuel system needs new hoses. Not sure about condition of gas tanks.
- Stromberg carbs needs cleaning.
- Distributor was previously converted to electronic ignition - Piranha Ignition.
- Engine seems to be locked up.
- Not even going to bother with the servos.
- Shocks are all leaking. Rest of suspension looks ok but I'm sure rubber bits are questionable.
- Seems like a seal is leaking where the axles attach to the transmission.
- Radiator is questionable.
Other than that, it's a cream-puff. :o
So, I thought I would start this thread to introduce myself, to show progress, and ask questions as they arise (normally about every 11 minutes). I've enjoyed reading through all of the helpful information shared on this board and am looking forward to our journey.
Cheers, Andy
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I'll be watching with great interest.
I'm a little ahead of you with a Renault powered S2.
You guys are going to have a great time with your car!
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:Welcome: Andy!
I think this will be a great father-son project! A frame off will be quite a journey, but these cars are pretty simple. I'm sure you're up to it. If you have questions, people here are ready to help.
I think you'll find that parts are available. Some are improved faithful reproductions and some are redesigned and then there are always modern substitutions.
Check out http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php?topic=1389.0 for some useful links.
And don't forget to Post Pictures and keep us informed about how you're doing!
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I referred to this a lot when removing the body of my car.
http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/misc/body/Body_Removal.html
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Hi Andy and another :Welcome:
Soooo....... a bit of polish and it'll be good to go for the weekend then ? :)
Ok, ok, maybe next weekend ?
Being serious, it does sound like you're well on the way and this is going to be a good project. I shall look forward to updates and I'm sure you're going to make good progress ticking off that list. As BDA says, these cars aren't that complex - there's nothing that a bigger hammer can't sort out !
Brian
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Hi from another Andy, in NC. With '74 TCS4397R in pieces in the garage.
And welcome to the madness...
:Welcome:
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I have nearly finished a complete rebuild from bare chassis and bare bodyshell on 4688R, so if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. Someone on her will know the answer or point you in the right direction. That is the whole purpose of this forum.
Alex in Norfolk UK
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Thanks for the warm welcome.
BDA, thanks for the very helpful list. I've looked at quite a few of those but your list is great. Was very sorry to hear about Dave Bean. Sounds like we lost a great guy and a great resource. Sorry I didn't get a chance to speak with him. And, I do appreciate the simplicity of the vehicle. My wife has a Mini Cooper and I can't imagine trying this on that car when it's 40 years old.
Skippo... Thanks for the link. That has indeed been the basis for my plan to remove the body. I set up a project on Trello.com to keep track of what we need to do and to record notes on each. Kind of nice to just go grab a task and work it. My son has been using it when he works on it without me.
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So, I do have a couple of questions based on where we are right now...
I've been using the instructions for body removal from lotus-europa.com along with the diagrams and parts manuals.
It says to remove the coolant lines between the engine and the coolant pipes running from the front. I've removed the radiator and the hoses to/from it. It looks like everything else is running though the chassis so I don't need to unhook these to remove the body. Is there a reason to remove them?
Secondly, I'm not sure what needs to be done with the clutch cable, throttle cable, and hand brake cable.
Throttle Cable - cut tie to frame and leave as is?
Clutch Cable - pull this one all the way out?
Hand brake - push back into frame?
I probably just need to crawl around under the car a bit more and look at it but anything to clarify this would be helpful.
Thanks
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Just wanted to remind you to check jbcollier's list (below mine), too! :)
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:Welcome: Hi Andy, you landed in the right place, the people on this forum are an immense help as I am also in the midst of a complete rebuild of my 72 Europa TC (and its yellow too!). I'm documenting all my trials and tribulations on this site under Garage (Restoration of 2358R) so hopefully some of my own experiences will be valuable to you.
Will you have your Europa completed by LOG38 (Lotus Owners Gathering #38) in Ohio? I'm hoping to have my done by then and take it to the weekend event.
Glen
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If you can, just polish and wax the paint. Painting a fibreglass car is expensive and time consuming. Right now, cars that look original are commanding more interest than pristine trailer queens.
A rad shop can dip your tanks and coat them if they are not too bad. Replacements are available.
Buy some acetone and Dex 3 automatic transmission fluid. Mix it up 1:1 and pour it in the spark plug holes. Wait a week. Put into 4th gear and rock it back and forth and see if it will free up. If it frees up, drain the oil and fit fresh oil and filter. Spin it up with the spark plugs out. 10 seconds at a time until you have oil pressure. Now check your compression. Good? Drained oil wasn't full of unmentionables? Pull the valve cover, check the valve clearances and set the timing chain tension -- you can replace the chain in situ if it's worn. Now you can start it and evaluated it for smokiness (not unusual: valve guides are short).
Strombergs are very straight forward. Probably time for a new jet needles which are a tad tricky to fit. You need a press and a vernier caliper or depth micrometer. Not a bad idea to fit adjustable dashpots from a TR6 at the same time. You can fit the proper needles to the adjustable holders.
I'd fit a newer electronic ignition system like Pertronics. The older electronic systems often get flakey with age. Clean and lube the advance mech while you are in there.
If you remove the servos, commonly done, fit an 0.70 master cylinder as otherwise the pedal will be too hard.
Rad shop can advise on the rad. It uses a high density core which is not easily found. Alloy replacements are available cheap out of China via ebay.
Transaxle side seals always weep at least some. If it is just weeping I would be tempted to live with it. To do it properly you have to remove the tranny and bell housing and make sure the diff freeplay and bearing preload is correct. It is very common for people to replace these seals without removing the tranny and get the diff out of correct adjustment.
Suspension rubbers will be toast at this mileage. Adjustable shocks are a nice replacement and allow you to lower the somewhat high nose. Get new springs at the same time.
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Mine is an S1 which is different but I think:
You have disconnect the throttle cable as it is "inside" the body while the engine is "outside".
Disconnect the clutch cable at the pedal, take it off its abutment and pull it through.
Disconnect handbrake arm on the frame (access hole in the front luggage area).
Cheers
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I've been using the instructions for body removal from lotus-europa.com along with the diagrams and parts manuals.
It says to remove the coolant lines between the engine and the coolant pipes running from the front. I've removed the radiator and the hoses to/from it. It looks like everything else is running though the chassis so I don't need to unhook these to remove the body. Is there a reason to remove them?
If you mean the steel tubes running front to back, then yes you can leave them in place once the rubber hoses are removed. Remember there's also the heater matrix inside the car. That's fed by 1/2" steel tubing running inside the central spine and coming out inside the car directly behind the dash. The steel tubes stay in place but those rubber hoses hidden behind the dash will need to come out IIRC.
The oil gauge on the TC is mechanical so there's also an oil feed line which I forgot all about when I removed my chassis, and they are remarkably strong. ::)
Brian
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:lotus: Welcome Andy
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The clutch cable will get in the way when you lift off the shell. Remove it completely.
Pull the throttle cable into the seat place.
Hand brake cables are fixed only to the chassis.
Cut the two rubber pipes feeding the heater behind the dashboard, and when you replace them for new, use longer rubber tubes and cross them over for easier bends.
I could only find 4 nuts and bolts holding the shell to the chassis. A pair in the front plenum with the nuts at the top of the front suspension, and a pair at the extreme rear near the rear lights where the gearbox cross member tube joins the rear on the chassis.
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There are also two behind the dash that anchors it to the frame. There are also two bolts that hold the heater and choke cable bracket under the front of the elbow pad. I believe they all have to come out but the second pair might not have to come out but it would at least make things easier.
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Welcome to the forum Andy. You've got a great start on your project. The Europa is a great choice for a father/son project as it's an interesting old car that captures the interest of car guys of all ages, and the end result will be one of the most fun driving machines ever devised. It's surprisingly poor as a chick magnet though, so possibly a disappointment to your son on that point. ;) I'll be watching your project come together. Cheers :beerchug:
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Is it better to leave the doors, windshield, and rear glass on the car when pulling the body off the frame? I'm just about ready to pull the body on mine (4552R) and thought that leaving these on might provide some rigidity.
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The windscreen will add rigidity but I don't think the doors add anything more than weight. Having said that, I don't think the windscreen, glass, or doors helps or hurts when separating the body from the frame.
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Take the doors off.
But getting the steel pins out can take ages. Rather than cutting through them with a hacksaw, I drill through them with progressively increasing drill bits. Normally they are rusted solid in the door and just do not move up or down.
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May I expand on 4129R's notes.
The handbrake cable has to be disconnected from the hook at the front accessible through the large rubber grommet in the middle of the front plenum. You will have to disconnect the lever at the other end under the dash. Then remove the long bolt from the lever pivot that runs through the chassis.
Did someone mention the speedo cable? That should be disconnected behind the dash as well as the oil pressure pipe.
There should be eight bolts to hold down the body. Four already mentioned plus two holding the seat belt buckles onto the central chassis box section and finally two bolts just in front of the heater hoses on top of the chassis box section which hold a brackets to the bottom of the dash.
You may have a closing plate under the front which joins between the body nose section and the front bottom edge of thechassis 'T' section. It is held on with small screws.
Hope this helps.
Stu
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For those of you who have removed the body from the frame; How easy should the body separate from the frame. What's been everyone's experience?
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Mine came away easy - I used a shop crane at the rear, and a floor jack at the front. Raised a bit at the time, while I stacked blocks, and got body high enough to slide a 4x4 under and onto blocks. Repeated until high enough to roll frame out from under.
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It's been a long time since I separated mine but I don't remember having any problems. I think I probably used a similar method to Andy and IIRC, I did it by myself.
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For those of you who have removed the body from the frame; How easy should the body separate from the frame. What's been everyone's experience?
It's been a while but I like the other guys here, I don't recall it being too difficult. I used 2 trolley jacks and lifted it a few inches at a time, allowing the weight of the chassis to pull itself out of the body. (once the oil pipe had been removed that is ::) )
However I lifted the body off a rolling chassis so there was some weight to assist the operation. When I changed the chassis on the Elan I had removed the engine and most of the running gear and that was harder to separate, I remember levering it with crowbars to break the accumulation of rust & dirt holding it in place around the rear turrets.
Brian
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I used 2 metal trestles each side at the front, and 2 at the rear (bandstands). Put 4 x 2s across side to side. Put a 4 x 2 in the front where the spare wheel goes side to side. Ditto at the rear about where the petrol tanks are located, and with simple ratchet straps, just pulled the shell off the chassis.
The shell without doors, seats and other easily removable stuff is quite light. I could lift one end on my own.
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Mine did not come off easy. I used two floor jacks and two 4x4s running front to back under the body from the back of the front fender well to the front of the back fender well. Once I had some tension lifting on the body I still had to do some gentle prying on both sides of the front T section.
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Haven't had any opportunities this week to work on the car. One of the activities was my son earned his Eagle Scout in boy scouts on Thursday! And he started an Automotive Technologies program at the local community college and is in the T-Ten program to focus on Toyota. Unfortunately, they did not offer a focus on Lotus.
We got the gas tanks out last week which had some nasty old gas in them. I think we have one more good weekend and we'll have everything off necessary to lift the body off. My wife is not willing to give up the side of the garage occupied by the Mini Cooper so I need to find a location to put the body while we're working on the chassis. I've got the stuff ready for the rolling platform like was used in the instructional email. Might need a car cover if I can't get it indoors.
I'll post some other pictures in a bit showing a few things we've been able to do.
What is the inside anatomy of the gas tanks? I think only the LH one has the level sensor. Can I take that out and then clean the insides without damaging anything?
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Congratulations on your progress! When I had my frame and body separated, I put the body on saw horses above the frame which was on stands until I got it to where it was a roller. Some have made fairly elaborate stands and I think some even hung their body from the ceiling. There are lots of ways to skin that cat so you don't impinge on your wife's garage space.
You are correct, the left hand tank only has the fuel level sender. The right tank has nothing. If you are intent on keeping the steel tanks, I might consider trying to modify them so water can't collect on the tops of them. I would also seal the inside and paint the outside with some good primer and paint. If you can swing it financially, aluminum tanks are a better solution.
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The sender is fairly easy to remove. I would be wary of using a screwdriver or pin punch on the sender tabs for fear of breaking them off. Instead fabricate a sender removal tool using a plastic irrigation/sewer pipe coupler (I believe the diameter is 3", need to measure sending unit diameter to make sure. Cut three slots about 120 degrees apart for the tabs to fit into, per the picture.
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Yes, what Grumblebuns said. The ears on the locking ring are easy to mess up.
My neighbor is a fabricator and he didn't like my Horrible Freight saw horses so he made me some stands. I can post some dimensions if anyone wants to whip some up.
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Those stands are fantastic. Measurements would be great, I could make some of those for my project. Keep everything in one bay but still be able to work on everything.
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Hey guys! I'm Andy's son. I'm currently removing the clutch cable as one of the final pieces of the puzzle before we can remove the body. I've disconnected the cable from the the lever connecting it to the transmission as well as the pin connecting it to the clutch pedal. However, it is still being held in place by a bracket in the cab and the bracket attached to the oil pan.
I don't think the bracket inside the cab removes, and the outer cable seems to be stuck on the bracket on the oil pan (attached). I'm basically just trying to muscle it from the bracket in the engine compartment. Any tips on how to get it out?
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There are two types of bracket at the rear. One is welded to the chassis and is horrible as the movement of the engine affects the cable feel, so it was replaced by a bracket bolted to the block.
Undo the two bolts holding the bracket to the block, and the whole thing comes away easily.
There are two thin bolts holding the bracket to the other end of the cable, the nuts are close to the centre of the chassis. If necessary, carefully cut those nuts off with a grinder from under the car.
It sound like the metal collars on both ends of the cable have corroded and got stuck in the holes in the two brackets. They are a tight fit when new.
Once the front bracket is free from the tunnel, you will have to ease it away from the cable, but with the end now free, this will be easier. Then pull the cable back through into the engine compartment.
This is what I did on 4688R, about the same late vintage as yours.
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So, we're down to just the final steps to get the body off. We are working on the handbrake which has instructions along the lines of "wrestle the cable loose". We have disconnected the handbrake cable from both rear brakes. The handbrake handle is unbolted from the interior and the bolt removed from the access hole in the bonnet. I'm at the wrestling point. Not really getting the angle to get the cable to slip off the lever with the hook. Is there a trick to this I'm missing?
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Hah! Carson laid in the driver footwell upside down and was able to disconnect the lever from the handbrake handle. Then, he could turn the lever enough to get the brake cable off the other end. Good to have young and flexible! No idea how we are getting that all hooked up when the body goes back on. :P
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I had to undo the bolt holding the lever to the chassis to get it off, (under the large 4" rubber bung in the plenum chamber) and when putting it back on again, tension the wire on the lever through to where the brake reservoir is, and then re-fix the bolt.
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Just an update for today. The body is completely ready to be removed besides removing the oil line which is already freed from the engine compartment and the final two vertical bracing struts. All of the parts have been labeled, bagged and boxed. It's been a lot of work and banged knuckles getting here, but it's exciting to be getting onto the next step even if it does pose just as big of a challenge. We're one step closer to getting it back on the road.
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So, this has been quite the hiatus. We got the car to a pretty good point, all ready for the body to come off, and then life got in the way. Then , it was a matter of having the two of us here and two strong helpers to pull the body off. Here are some photos of the results of that. We have since removed the rear shocks/springs.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4540/38684967611_3284753ae0_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21Wsz7c)IMG_5976 (https://flic.kr/p/21Wsz7c) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
The boards on the sides are on stands and were holding up the body before removal.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4518/38684968261_1c5f61e15a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21Wszip)IMG_5977 (https://flic.kr/p/21Wszip) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4575/38684968841_19ab7f7479_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21Wsztp)IMG_5978 (https://flic.kr/p/21Wsztp) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4582/38684969511_ffb3c54a50_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21WszEX)IMG_5979 (https://flic.kr/p/21WszEX) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4582/38684970191_202ab362b1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21WszSF)IMG_5980 (https://flic.kr/p/21WszSF) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4526/38684971031_9c15515f7a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21WsA8a)IMG_5981 (https://flic.kr/p/21WsA8a) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4520/38684972071_2ca5f2d3e2_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21WsAr6)IMG_5982 (https://flic.kr/p/21WsAr6) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4523/38684972881_3ca93b269c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21WsAF4)IMG_5983 (https://flic.kr/p/21WsAF4) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4567/38684973761_f218680d69_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21WsAWe)IMG_5984 (https://flic.kr/p/21WsAWe) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4577/38684973951_b84db8610f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21WsAZv)IMG_5985 (https://flic.kr/p/21WsAZv) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4419/36558716784_d93ddbee1b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XGyYPb)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/XGyYPb) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4553/38652373892_f736154177_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21Tzw8w)IMG_5987 (https://flic.kr/p/21Tzw8w) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
Up on my platform and 2x4's used for carrying it are off.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4545/38652375122_490fae3aa3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21TzwuJ)IMG_5990 (https://flic.kr/p/21TzwuJ) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
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So now, the big question is what to do next? As you can see, there is some rust on the chassis but it appears to just be surface rust. My neighbor, who restored his father's 1939 Ford pickup, is recommending I take everything off and have it sandblasted and then prime and seal the chassis. I'm ok with taking many/most of the stuff off since I want to replace the various rubber bushings, etc. Bringing it down for sandblasting would involve pulling the engine/tranny and all the bits running through the chassis. Looking like more work than I was hoping. But, it would be as good as we can get it before it goes back together (assuming I can get it all back together :o).
I'm interested to hear recommendations from this group. Thanks.
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It's your car and your money so it's your decision.
First though, block the engine intakes with a couple of rags!
Second poke the bottom of the chassis with a sharp ice pick. If it is truly solid, then you don't need to replace it or blast and paint it if you don't want to. At a bare minimum replace all the brake hoses and bushings, and spray the inside of the chassis with a semi-liquid, non-hardening, rust treatment.
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Now that you got it apart this far, it would be a shame to miss an opportunity to do a good repaint of your frame. It's really a simple car so I'm confident you can put it all back together.
If that is a bridge too far, I would find as much of the rust as you can (don't forget to look inside the 'T' and backbone), sand it away and prime and paint those areas. Usually, there is some oil coating the area around the engine so you probably won't need to pull the engine from the frame to get to those areas - but if you do, Plan A (sand blast and paint the frame) starts to make more sense.
You should replace the jute with closed cell neoprene foam (or similar). r.d. enterprises stocks this.
I would replace your shocks and springs. Richard at Banks recommends 250# front and 130# to 150# rear. That sounds very high but in reality, those spring rates work very well and are not at all uncomfortable. He sells them as well as some nice shocks. r.d. and Dave Bean also sell good shocks. I'm not sure they are on board with Richard's spring recommendation, but I don't know.
You may want to replace the rear bearings and replace the spacers with hardened steel replacements. I don't think this is as critical as it is with S2s, but you've gone this far, you might as well freshen them, too.
Depending on your budget, you may want to consider Richard's twin link rear suspension, rear disc brake, and/or vented front disc brake. Adjustable front A-arms are a good idea. The stock setup was designed to be destroyed in a crash to help save your frame. If your A-arm pieces are straight, you might consider replacing the top ones with adjustable units and leave the bottom ones as they are more likely to be damaged. They're getting rare so at some point, we'll all probably end up with tubular units. Adjustable rear links are also a good idea. It would probably be a good idea to replace the front suspension bushings with polyurethane units. This looks like a good place to get them: http://www.autobush.com/8/Lotus/Elan-Twin-Cam (http://www.autobush.com/8/Lotus/Elan-Twin-Cam)
Just my $0.02!
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Thank you BDA. My next question was going to be around the shocks. They are definitely shot and we'll be replacing them. I will look at your recommendation.
I presume the jute is the insulating stuff on the chassis.
When I removed the front stabilizer bar (anti-roll bar or whatever they called it), the bracket holding it on was difficult because the bolt inside the T of the chassis was no longer brazed on and it spun. I was planning to repair that with it all apart but I'm not seeing how I can get inside the T to do this. Any recommendations?
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I have Spax shocks. They're good but they're steel and I really like the aluminum units Banks and SJ Sportscars sells. It could be that r.d. or Dave Bean sells similar shocks. It would probably be worth a call to all of them to make a comparison. As I said before, Banks sells the springs I mentioned and I'm not sure if the other guys do. That might be something else to discuss when you talk to them.
Yes, the jute is that fibrous stuff that is between the body and the frame, under the carpets, etc. A new carpet kit (I recommend Automat https://www.autointeriors.biz/) would be recommended and it would come with a new pad.
The top of the anti roll bar is attached to the top A-arm attachment point via a "drop link." Is that the bracket you're talking about?. When you go to loosen that nut, you're going to have to grab the back one. If you hold one and turn the other, eventually one will come off. IIRC, the top suspension pin has a nut welded on one "rear end." If I did remember correctly, that should make it easier. You might need some penetrating oil like Liquid Wrench or Kroil if it's rusted.
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Your car looks about the same condition as mine when I started.
(http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/albums/Zetec/Shop04.jpg)
(http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/albums/Zetec/Shop03.jpg)
(http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/albums/Zetec/Waterpiping3.jpg)
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Racurley,
That’s a great start. I found that staying organized a a place to store the parts on as you disassemble them / reassemble them and a waiting area , for rechroming , machinist etc ...Keep suspension, engine, interior, etc ..together. After rebuilding and testing Wrap in plastic bags or light millage sheeting. Do not use suran wrap it’s extremely difficult to remove.
I made a choice to purchase all the blasting equipment and found it extremely helpful getting my project to the level I want. Looking at rusted parts drives me crazy.. lol. You can get overwhelmed by all categories of the rebuild so take one or two at a time .
Start a budge
Start a wish list
Keep taking pictures ,it’s your progress.
Just my 2 cents
Dakazman
Keep in with this site and others 😁
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There are several of us on this site doing total rebuilds (frame off). As long as your this far, might as well strip the chassis, media blast all the parts, paint and reassemble with new bushings, bearings, shocks, etc. it really not that hard, just a little time consuming but if you stay after it every weekend you will get it done by summer.
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Your question on shock absorbers/springs. Go for an adjustable sets, height and damping. As suggest Spax are ok but Banks in the UK does a nice set of AVO's. You can then play a bit with the ride height. You'll regret it if you don't.
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Your question on shock absorbers/springs. Go for an adjustable sets, height and damping. As suggest Spax are ok but Banks in the UK does a nice set of AVO's. You can then play a bit with the ride height. You'll regret it if you don't.
I'm guessing these the AVO Dampers listed below? What's the bush/rose designation?
Code Diagram Description Unit Price Qty
RX0001 - AVO Damper - front - adjustable & uprated - (bush) Each 100.73
RX0001A - AVO Damper - front - adjustable & uprated - (rose) Each 105.00
RX0005A - AVO Damper - front - adjustable & uprated - Banks 62S Each 96.66
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...
I made a choice to purchase all the blasting equipment and found it extremely helpful getting my project to the level I want. Looking at rusted parts drives me crazy.. lol. You can get overwhelmed by all categories of the rebuild so take one or two at a time .
...
I'm curious what equipment you purchased? I've looked at the benchtop blast cabinet from HF which can be had for around $100 plus I would need to find a high volume compressor. This could do the smaller stuff. Not sure where I'd use a bigger blaster. How did you do this?
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Code Diagram Description Unit Price Qty
RX0001 - AVO Damper - front - adjustable & uprated - (bush) Each 100.73
RX0001A - AVO Damper - front - adjustable & uprated - (rose) Each 105.00
RX0005A - AVO Damper - front - adjustable & uprated - Banks 62S Each 96.66
Bush means metalastic bushing ends, Rose means "Rose Joint" or rod-end ends (metal to metal). The Banks 62S will be for the Banks 62 chassis, not standard Europa. If you're restoring it as a street car, Bush type dampers are preferred. If you're building a race car, Rose type.
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To expand on Roddy's post: "Rose" refers to the use of a spherical bearing or rod end. In England, they call them "rose joints" similarly to some in the US who call them "heim joints." Heim and Rose are manufacturers and their name is sometimes used like "Kleenex." Rod ends and spherical bearings give more accurate positioning of the suspension links because there is no compliance like there is in a rubber bushing. However they are more expensive and subject to wear from dust and grit. The are more commonly used on race cars.
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...
I made a choice to purchase all the blasting equipment and found it extremely helpful getting my project to the level I want. Looking at rusted parts drives me crazy.. lol. You can get overwhelmed by all categories of the rebuild so take one or two at a time .
...
I'm curious what equipment you purchased? I've looked at the benchtop blast cabinet from HF which can be had for around $100 plus I would need to find a high volume compressor. This could do the smaller stuff. Not sure where I'd use a bigger blaster. How did you do this?
I used to use a sand blaster I bought from Sears. You would blast larger items on your drive way or somewhere you don't mind having A LOT of sand. It is an amazingly dirty job. The sand goes everywhere! Given the size of a frame, if you have a way to get your frame to a sand blaster with any convenience at all, it would be a good move. A small sand blaster that you might get would take a long time to do a frame.
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Racurley,
I'm curious what equipment you purchased? I've looked at the benchtop blast cabinet from HF which can be had for around $100 plus I would need to find a high volume compressor. This could do the smaller stuff. Not sure where I'd use a bigger blaster. How did you do this?
I purchased the larger hf cabinet and modded it with a 3 ft led single light strip, cyclone dust collector , new gloves from a different vendor , 3/4 heater hose for pickup, and a sliding door vent.
Most of the mods are on YouTube. The mod for a foot pedal is my next mod.
Yes you need a compressor with a water separator. I also use the handheld blaster for use outside
And a canister type On larger pieces such as frame. I had the bottle type from hf also worked well
But the front leg ripped a hole in the bottom of tank. I use glass bead for media , and yes playsand with a respirator only outside so I can sweep it up , run it thru a screen and reuse.
—-Do not use sand without a respirator—-
Dakazman
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I’m on a flight so don’t have access to my model numbers of media blast cabinet and compressor. What I can tell you is next to my two post lift my media cabinet is the best piece of shop equipment I have ever bought. Don’t buy a super cheap one, your better off getting a medium value one from a reputable company. TP tools sells “hobby” media cabinets with a vacuum sytem. Look at these. You do need a large capacity compressor, that will be your big expense (look on Craigslist for a used one).
But I wanted to say the best way to media blast the chassis and other large parts is to take it to a company that makes headstones for graves. They have walk in media blasting rooms and are happy to take on additional work. I had a local place do my Europa chassis and all the large metal parts for $300 cash. Well worth it!
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If you have someone that does powder coating locally, they may blast for you. Had my frame done for less than $100.
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If you have someone that does powder coating locally, they may blast for you. Had my frame done for less than $100.
100 is a pretty good deal. I had my local guy charge me $75 to do a valve cover and a bell housing. That's what caused me to buy a sandblaster. If you get a quote for $100 I would jump on it. I sand blasted mine with a crappy sears oilless air compressor that ran on 110. It took me about a week to sandblast, weld in rust repair, and repaint all of the metal parts on the car. If you have an 80 gallon compressor which runs a decent cfm then it will be much faster. Nothing worse than stopping every 30 seconds to wait for air. After seeing a twin piston 2 stage ingersoll compressor run my sandblaster non stop I shelled out for an 80 gallon....money well spent
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Thanks for the replies. I have seen some chassis that have been blasted and coated. Looks like a great target for us. I've gotten the front suspension off - well, everything except for the lower wishbone pivot pin on the left side. That's being stubborn. Will try the heatgun on the frame and see if it will come out.
I've been looking at the rear suspension and planning to remove the engine/trans and am not quite certain how to proceed. So, there's a "roll pin" at the inner U-joint and transmission shaft that I'm supposed to remove with a drift? Looks like the rest required to pull the engine is to remove the gear linkage, which is explained in the manual, the lower arms on the suspension, the coolant hoses to the water pump, and the two mounting brackets. There's also a cable going into the left rear of the transmission. I'm guessing this is the tachometer maybe? How does that piece come out?
One step at a time. I'm getting ready to go on a trip for a couple of weeks so will have to get back on this later in January but trying to get a good plan in place for now.
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There's also a cable going into the left rear of the transmission. I'm guessing this is the tachometer maybe? How does that piece come out?
Speedo drive.
Held in place normally with a metric thread bolt at the rear passing through a hole in the metal gearbox bracket, and a lock-nut (Renault gearbox is metric).
Undo the bolt and in theory the speedo cable pulls out.
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Hmmm. Here's what mine looks like. Sort of just looks like it's stuck in there
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4634/24547004087_3865d75973_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Dp8P7p) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
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IIRC, the aluminum part of the cable has a groove that is engaged by the bolt 4129R mentioned. It might be screwed in from the bottom. If it's not there, the cable should just pull out.
FYI, the tach is electric.
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So, I was trying to drive the roll pin from the inner universal joint to remove the rear axle. It said to use a drift, Part No 46F 6171,which I of course don't have. So, I used a 1/8" pin punch. I'm guessing I should have used either a larger punch or tried from the other side. Now, I've gotten the punch stuck in the little hole in the pin and the pin is not out.
I've never removed a pin before and haven't had a good experience so far. >:(
So, what is the technique for driving these out? And, any thoughts on extracting the punch without breaking it off? 🤪
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(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/816/27123486438_69543aa6f5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HjNXxU)
Yep. Stuck.
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You may have inserted the punch into the roll pin. You will need to use the right size drift from underneath and hammer out. That should work.
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Turn it 180 degrees, and using the right sized drift, push the whole lot out in the other direction.
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Maybe, looks like the punch will interfere with rotating the shaft.
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I've never done this job myself, but I seem to recall this is a pin-within-a-pin connection (smaller roll pin stuck inside a larger roll pin). It looks like you pushed out the smaller inner pin and got stuck inside the outer pin. (?)
Tom
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They are one-piece pins.
You won't be able to rotate the shaft, so you'll have to drive it out from underneath with a larger-diameter drift. 5mm I think.
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Early cars used two pins, later, one spiral-cut pin.
First, get the punch out. You will have to get underneath and drive it upwards with a slightly smaller diameter of punch. Myself, I would take a punch of the same diameter and grind/file it top a smaller diameter. It is not going to be easy as I assume you have driven the stuck punch in hard.
Once you have the punch out, you need to use a pin punch of the correct diameter to prevent the same thing from happening again.
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I believe it’s actually a scroll pin. So it is made up of a roll of steel and solid. A roll pin is like split tube of spring steel.
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I don't know if all TCSs are single pinned. Mine were double pinned when I remove mine (second owner). It looks like your picture is of the right hand side of the 365. If so, the 365 on the right hand side has a slight overhang from the top section of the case forcing you to punch the pin at a slight angle if driving it out from the top. It's much easier to drive the right side pin from the bottom due to the straighter access.
The pins are metric but I used a 3/16" pin punch to get mine out fairly easily. It was a good tight fit in the hole.
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Yes. I've managed to drive it in pretty tightly. I can twist it with the vise grips but no pulling out. I went to HF and got a kit with a selection of punches that have a little tip. No luck moving it from below with the other punch still stuck. Also, I probably need more of a dead blow hammer than my claw hammer. Definitely have an overhang that is causing a slight bend to the punch from above.
The pin seems to have one end with a small hole and the other end has a larger one (where my punch is stuck). When I'm doing this correctly, what end should I be driving from?
Also, I need to remove a pin from the rear where the shift linkage connects at the rear of the transmission. Anyone know what size drift to use there?
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It's not the worst "Oh shit" moment in the world but close. How much of the smaller pin is protruding from the bottom? Bang it hard enough with a hammer and you risk breaking it off completely if you hit it at the wrong angle. I would first work on getting the punch out by wiggling and pulling at the same time as you are already doing. If it turns with the vice grips, it should eventually come out. DON'T BREAK THE PUNCH OFF.
Removing the pin for the rear shift linkage shaft requires having the gearbox in the gear that pushes the shift shaft out as far as possible and the hole at 90 deg. straight up and down. Thinking about it visually, either first or third gear (my linkage is disconnected). This will align the pin and hole so that it's exposed and visible from the top (see pictures). The hole is between 7/64" and 9/32". Find a roll pin between the two sizes, if one exists or use the metric equivalent. I think I punched it out from the top due to having more room to swing a hammer from the top. Speaking of hammers, it takes a firm rap to punch the pin out and a small claw hammer may not the mass to do the job.
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If you cam turn it with vise grips, good. Have your "beautiful assistant" turn the punch while you knock it out from below.
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Care must be used when removing the shift linkage pin at the rear of the trans.
If the pin is "frozen" in place, pounding on the pin without supporting the joint, may result in bending the shaft.
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Yes. I've managed to drive it in pretty tightly. I can twist it with the vise grips but no pulling out. I went to HF and got a kit with a selection of punches that have a little tip. No luck moving it from below with the other punch still stuck.
Just a couple of thoughts.
Given you can twist it with the vise grips, that's pretty positive.
Any chance of twisting the vise grips while levering under the vise grips with say, a tyre lever?
Support the u-joint yoke with a block of wood. This allows the force of the hammer blows to go where it's needed without stressing the output shaft etc.
Other options if worst comes to worst:
1. Break off the punch and proceed from the other side. The punch remnant may be too jammed in there to push all the way through from this side. Punches are cheap enough.
2. Weld a nut on top of the punch and use a slide hammer . . if you've got one of course.
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I like where Galvin is going however can you drill down into punch?
If so thread the hole and put a machine screw in a dent puller and pull the punch out.
Dakazman
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A punch is usually hardened steel and not easily drilled. You would have to anneal it first which is not easily done in its current location.
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When looking from the other side, how big is the hole in the pin?
Is there enough room to get an old drill, or the pin from a pop rivet, or something similar in the hole to bang the punch back out?
Getting the punch out should be easier than getting the pin out.
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I'm going to try levering it with a short tire iron while twisting pulling. Will see how that works.
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Racurley,
I did ok some time to think about this and noticed that the hole you have the punch stuck in is slightly
onboard of the case itself, with that said is the punch wedged next to the case? The picture does not have a top down picture.? If it is you may want to use a die grinder and cut off the punch just below that point. Then try to grab it with vice grips . You may also want to notch the punch and use a claw hammer to lift it out.
Dakazman
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Sorry, I hate spell check and need to read my posts before sending.
Let’s just say I thought about it,...is the punch hitting the case? Was supposed to be inboard not onboard.
Then please read on.
Dave
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Sorry, I hate spell check and need to read my posts before sending.
G'day dakazman,
You realise you can edit your posts, right?
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Finally! I turned the axle back about 45 degrees to get the punch off of the transmission, put some 3 in 1 oil on it and them twisted and pulled with the visegrips for about 5 minutes. Yay! I tried it Wednesday night with the crowbar and managed to smash my knuckles on the chassis. This twist and pull method only caused minor back pain. :-\
Going to use the punch that's next to the one I just removed to hammer it out from below. I have a 2.5 lbs hammer which will hopefully do the trick. Will provide an update on success or failure (hopefully not) later. Thanks for all of the advice.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/887/40221484025_e95cb7d1e0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24heBUv)Finally (https://flic.kr/p/24heBUv) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/807/27243300178_056bb7fcf2_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Hvp313)Finally (https://flic.kr/p/Hvp313) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/813/41073007222_534b3712e5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25ztU5W)Finally (https://flic.kr/p/25ztU5W) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
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:trophy:
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I tried it Wednesday night with the crowbar and managed to smash my knuckles on the chassis.
Spanner rash. Quite normal for Lotus repair work.
My arms and hands look like a battlefield after most weekends working on them. At times it looks like I am a heroin addict.
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Ok, that was pretty easy to remove from below when you hit it from the end with the pin (smaller hole) using a 3/16" punch. I used the HF punch since it has a pointy end to keep it in place but, about halfway through, it got a little stuck and the drift bent. Finished it with the 3/16" punch I got from HD. Here are some closeups of the roll pin.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/811/40223347225_90f7e427f7_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24hpaLD)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/24hpaLD) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/795/40223347065_b191692987_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24hpaHT)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/24hpaHT) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/821/40223347295_18dd867399_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24hpaMR)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/24hpaMR) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/872/40223347345_e244f718b6_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24hpaNH)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/24hpaNH) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/894/39309208520_3ca9b7ce81_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22TBYbu)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/22TBYbu) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/899/41074939252_da6276f50e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25zDNpN)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/25zDNpN) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
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Hard to tell but did the small pin break off? Hopefully the other side will be easier to remove.
I see that you have the entire rear suspension off. If you plan to remove the hubs, it may have been easier to remove the hub nut with the suspension still in place.
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So, I'm not sure what the roll pin is supposed to look like but it seems to be two pieces - one hollow piece that's full length with a slit so it compresses in the hole. The other solid piece which is a bit longer than 50% the length of the hollow piece.
The one on the left side was almost completely munged. It came out in two pieces and was maybe a third the length of the other.
Any ideas on where to source replacements?
Regarding the hubs, I think you are right. I may reinstall it to remove the big nuts. I was having difficulty keeping the hub from turning. I ended up putting a metal bar (used the original wheel lug bar from the kit) into the u-joint. It would press against the outside of the hub assembly to stop it from turning. I was a little concerned with the pressure on the u-joint. Any thoughts on this?
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An impact gun should take the axle but off.
All the usual Lotus parts suppliers would have the roll pins. If you are in the NA you try RD Enterprizes.
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Mcmaster has roll pics
https://www.mcmaster.com/#roll-pins/=1c7p9lk
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I believe the sizes needed are 3mm inner and 7mm outer. I don't see the 7mm listed. They also have the coil type pins. Are these the same as the Spiroll (sic?) that the TCs are suppose to come with?
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Great tale Andy and welcome to the forum. It’s extremely active and everyone here is willing to help you get through your adventure.
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I used the coil type pins on my rebuild. RD has them. Compressed the pin is 5mm and 35mm long. Need to Safety wire after installing them.
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... Need to Safety wire after installing them.
I presume this means just running a wire through the pin and twisting it off?
(I've decided it's safest to not assume things now :) )
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Yes. Use stainless steel wire designed for this.
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More photo documentation of my dismantling on Good Friday
Gear shift linkage
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/800/40498042984_8a2a5909ce_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24GF4fq)Rear suspension removal (https://flic.kr/p/24GF4fq) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/795/27337944178_28d17a57a4_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HDL7n9)Rear suspension removal (https://flic.kr/p/HDL7n9) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/900/27337944248_91d1b15f2d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HDL7om)Rear suspension removal (https://flic.kr/p/HDL7om) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/893/27337944358_51b9ddc8ee_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HDL7qf)Rear suspension removal (https://flic.kr/p/HDL7qf) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
The pin here was pretty large and came out fairly easily although there was some clearance issues with the frame.
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Removed the exhaust headers and had a peek at the valves. I have one of those USB cameras on a cable. I will see if I can take some photos of the intake and exhaust sections and get your opinions and what I should be doing with the engine. I have a feeling I will at a minimum be taking the top end off and cleaning it up. Two of the exhaust valves seem to have a lot of oil and two have carbon.
7 of the 8 connections for the exhaust were bolts and one was a stud for some reason. It, of course, torqued off when I was removing it. Will drill it out and replace with all new bolts.
I think I'm ready to pull the engine now. I still need to figure out how to disconnect the speedo cable from the back of the transmission. I know we went over this before but I am not certain - maybe just a good pull on it.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/804/40498044564_da4db62b74_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24GF4HE)Rear suspension removal (https://flic.kr/p/24GF4HE) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/880/40498044954_46d251b10b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24GF4Qo)Rear suspension removal (https://flic.kr/p/24GF4Qo) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/821/40315633545_a32098b198_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24qyah6)Rear suspension removal (https://flic.kr/p/24qyah6) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/785/27337945118_a78e390322_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HDL7Dm)Rear suspension removal (https://flic.kr/p/HDL7Dm) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/888/40315634245_58f36f6ea5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24qyaua)Rear suspension removal (https://flic.kr/p/24qyaua) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/899/40315634505_08c49c46a5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24qyayD)Rear suspension removal (https://flic.kr/p/24qyayD) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/898/40315634655_3d88d7128b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24qyaBe)Rear suspension removal (https://flic.kr/p/24qyaBe) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/891/39401670900_ab614fed48_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/232MS2s)Rear suspension removal (https://flic.kr/p/232MS2s) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
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I would convert to all studs for your exhaust headers. Screwing and unscrewing into aluminum increases the likelihood of wear on the threads in the aluminum. The studs will also help align the headers when you install them.
Once you take out the bolt (or is it a pin?) that holds cable "conduit" captive at the tranny, it should just pull out. You may need to clean out the area where it is attached but there isn't, or shouldn't, be anything mechanical that keeps it in there.
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Once you take out the bolt (or is it a pin?) that holds cable "conduit" captive at the tranny, it should just pull out.
It should be a metric bolt with a lock nut down the thread to lock in place before you screw the long bolt through the plastic end of the cable.
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Ok, once I knew what to look for, that was easy. Bolt on the rear of the transmission near the speedo cable. Back it out and the cable slides right out.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/863/26347402487_a48a3aca64_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/G9ejQ8)Speedo cable (https://flic.kr/p/G9ejQ8) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/786/26347402497_9721ef8474_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/G9ejQi)Speedo cable (https://flic.kr/p/G9ejQi) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/), on Flickr
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:beerchug:
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I took this video using my cheapo USB cable camera. I wanted to share the condition of the top end. Only got decent video of the intake valves. The cylinder head and exhaust valve video was not good.
https://www.screencast.com/t/ZcMDbZu9I38x (https://www.screencast.com/t/ZcMDbZu9I38x)
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Interesting video! Your camera gives a pretty decent picture.
I would think a car that was sitting idle outside for as long as yours did, and especially with no preparation, probably deserves to at least have the top end of the engine and carbs rebuilt. I'd also be careful with the brakes. Humidity can do a lot of damage.
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So, despite late of forum activity, we've been moving forward on the dismantling. My son managed to remove the top end and oil pan. I have removed the cams and the valves. I gave up trying to do it the hard way and went with the Lisle Valve Remover/Installer. Very easy.
I removed the valve followers (?) with the suction cup lapping tool.
Here are a few photo highlights. Need to include photos of the valves later...
Cylinders
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1755/42320251982_39d90ed949_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27tGmuW)Top end removal (https://flic.kr/p/27tGmuW) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1736/40561307790_a5b8c49e3e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24NgiEW)Top end removal (https://flic.kr/p/24NgiEW) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/)
Crank shaft from underneath
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1753/41466431015_efd7441b1a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/26bfigM)Top end removal (https://flic.kr/p/26bfigM) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/)
Oil pump
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1741/42320249832_52cc9de389_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27tGkRS)Top end removal (https://flic.kr/p/27tGkRS) by acurley (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26579783@N00/)
Starter
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Cover
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Bottom of top end
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Top of top end
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Camshafts removed
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Oil pan
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The cylinders look pretty rough. A great reason to rebuild it so that you'll be comfortable with it for a long time to come.
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Thanks BDA. I have some questions regarding what to do and how to do some things. I'll just toss a few out here.
Regarding the cylinders, what is the best way to handle this? I was thinking I would get the pistons out, clean them up and replace the rings. Do you think I can clean out the cylinders and then hone them or is this something that needs to go to a machine shop?
Looking at the manual, I'm not sure I can rebuild the engine - tools and know-how. I would like to do it even if it takes a while. Is this something we can reasonably do or is this best outsourced?
Suggestions on removing the gasket from the top end, cover, and oil pan? Recommendations on best way to replace? It looks like they require a jointing compound.
I'll post some questions regarding the valves once I post those pictures.
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I've built and helped build a few engines over the years but never a TC. If this is your first engine build, unless you have an experienced friend who can hold your hand or at least help you if you get stuck, I would advise you to farm it out to a machine shop. If you are a member of a local classic/sports car club, somebody there would probably be willing to help you out. I would advise you to join a club like that anyway (I'm a member of the local MG club, for example). Overhead cam engines are a bit more complicated than push rod motors so it bears making sure you're doing it right.
If you decide to take up the challenge, I would take it all apart and take the block, rods, wrist pins, pistons, head, etc. to a machine shop and have them clean up and check it over everything. Have them rebuild the head (valve job, etc.). Most of the special tools listed in the manual are things a machine shop would have but things like a torque wrench, dial indicator, calipers, engine stand are things you'd need to have. Someone who has more experience could advise you about some of the other tools that are listed.
My favorite gasket scraper is a putty knife. They are usually flexible enough not to gouge aluminum and stiff and thin enough to get under a gasket and scrape it off. I clean it with a wire brush on a bench grinder which makes it sharper. Everybody has their favorite tools to do things. Usually for a cork cam cover gasket, I like to glue the gasket on the cam cover with silicone seal and then spread lithium grease on the side that seals against the head. I would use silicone seal on both sides of the pan gasket. I used to use a Permatex spray product for a head gasket. You want to make sure you don't use too much silicone sealer because you don't want a chunk of it to fall in the oil pan and you might need to be more careful in fuel systems because gasoline can soften the silicone and clog things up.
I'm getting in the weeds a bit. Those are a few of my thoughts. There are likely issues that are specific to the TC engine that somebody else can help you with.
Good luck and ask whatever questions you have.
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Hi there,
Firstly a word of encouragement. ;) There's nothing difficult on the TC engine, it might look scary but these are low tech by modern standards so if you can use a torque wrench and follow instructions, you'll be fine. When I think back my Elan engine was the first time I'd actually had to take an engine of any sort down to it's component parts, so if I can do it then anyone can.
The workshop manual is normally the place to start but in this case I'd recommend you get hold of Miles Wilkin's book on the TC engine which is a very comprehensive guide to stripping, examining for wear and finally re-building the TC engine. Quite seriously, it is better than the Lotus manual if only because the latest reprint has been revised in light of modern sealants, etc, whereas the Lotus manual is firmly set in the 70s.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lotus-Twin-Cam-Engine-Wilkins-November/dp/B00CB5V2E0/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1528316314&sr=8-7&keywords=miles+wilkins (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lotus-Twin-Cam-Engine-Wilkins-November/dp/B00CB5V2E0/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1528316314&sr=8-7&keywords=miles+wilkins)
It's always hard to judge on photographs but if there's any significant rust in the bores I'd be tempted to do a re-bore and fit new pistons. Although expensive and needing a machine shop for the bore it immediately gets away from any question about the piston/bore wear. It would really annoy me if I rebuilt it all and then found it was burning oil or lousy performance. For the crank I'd look at the current shells, measure and decide after seeing the results; you could strike lucky and find it's fared better over the years and be ok with just new shells ?
Cylinder head; if it's a high mileage engine then I'd fit new guides/seats/valves which is a machine shop job but you can strip & assemble afterwards. Like the crank I would take a decision based on the condition of the valve seats and if there is any noticeable movement in the guides. There are no valve stem seals so if there's significant movement then the engine will burn oil which doesn't really harm performance much but does end up with smoke as you leave the traffic lights. That was the reason I did mine, it was just so uncomfortable to see the smoke in the mirror as I pulled away.
The water pump should be replaced, all parts are available but you need a press to get the impeller on the shaft. I used a 6" bench vice (three times now !) but it's something you could walk into a machine shop with and leave 5 minutes later all done. Relatively cheap to do while it's in bits but if you put the old one back and it failed a year later then it's head & sump off to replace it.... major hassle when it's all back in the car.
Even if you decide not to rebuild it yourself I'd still get Miles' book, it will give you some great insights into how it goes together, etc.
Brian
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The above referenced manual is very good. TC engine’s are not difficult to assemble but they are difficult to seal properly. Most leak, some quite a lot. Careful preperation and assembly will result in a dry engine.
Reading your posts leads me to believe you do not have much experience overhauling engines, left alone with twin cam Fords. Carefully strip the engine and mark all the bits and pieces with their location and orientation. It is very important, for instance, that the cam followers are kept in their proper order. Bring the crankshaft, block, main bearing caps (you marked their location and orientation, right), connecting rod/piston assemblies (rod cap position and piston locations and orientations marked), camshafts (position marked), followers and shims (ditto), etc. To the machine shop for inspection, evaluation and refurbishment. An assembled head will be much easier for the machine to work with rather than a million plastic bags with tags that have fallen off.
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I'm in the same situation as you are. I did rebuild an MG T series engine about 25 years ago, but I did have a lot of help from a master mechanic. Now that I'm retired I'm going to attempt the rebuild of my Twin Cam engine. However, I did send the entire head to John McCoy at Omnitech to be rebuilt. My thinking was the aluminum head needed someone with experience. I stripped the block and it, along with the crankshaft, rods, etc. are at the machine shop. The machine shop also has the clutch cover plate and flywheel so everything can be balanced. If you have a good machine shop they will tell you what you need to bring them. The block still had the standard original pistons, but because it sat for 30+ years had to be bored 0.030 oversize. I purchased new pistons from QED in the UK, However, both John McCoy and my machinist suggested purchasing better piston rings. My machinist was able to supply all of the needed bearings. I bought the Miles Wilkins book and I also found a dvd on ebay. I looked on google and it seems to be available here:
www.classiccarengines.co.uk/product/018
Also, one discovery I made. My number 4 piston was stuck solid and no amount of soaking (I tried marvel mystery oil, ATF/Acetone, Kroil, Diesel Fuel and basically every penetrate in the auto parts store) would free it. I let it soak for a few weeks and it still would not budge. I then discovered a great trick for freeing frozen parts. Buy a can of canned air duster. If you turn it upside down and spray, it will temporarily freeze the part shrinking it. I did that on the piston and was able to use the handle of a small wood hammer and get the piston to move.
I am hoping that between the Miles Wilkins book, the shop manual, the dvd and this list I will be OK.
Good luck,
Sherman
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G’day, racurley,
I would echo the remarks of others.
If this is your first engine rebuild, I’d make sure you have someone tame to discuss stuff. Some things are a matter of judgement and others involve well known TwinCam considerations.
Choosing a machine shop that’s helpful can make all the difference.
The Miles Wilkin's book is well regarded and this forum is very helpful but I reckon it’s worthwhile having someone local to provide guidance.
I don’t know much about TwinCams but I'm led to understand that some L blocks can be a bit thin in places and care needs to be taken if you’re going to bore it out to any large increment. Just one example.
If you’re going to have a go yourself, the first thing to do is dismantle it completely - mark everything as you go.
Have your machine shop drop the parts in their (alloy friendly) degrease/wash tank.
At that point, measure all critical components in order to assess where you stand.
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To me, one of the more tedious tasks on the TC engine is setting the valve clearances on re-assembly, especially after the valves/valve seats are ground or replaced.. ....Shims need to be of the correct thickness, and usually each valve may require a different thickness shim.
Another task is to insure proper timing of the camshafts. ....Not difficult to do, but rotate the engine through a few revolutions by hand to verify that the cam timing is correct before buttoning everything up. .....Be mindful of timing chain tension while doing this process.
The TC water pump! ---Now that the engine is out of the car, THIS is the time to renew or replace the pump components. ....Clean all surfaces thoroughly, but carefully!
Cleanliness and attention to detail during engine re-assembly are a must. ....Clean all threaded holes with a tap before final cleaning. ....Clean all threaded fasteners to remove any crud or prior sealing compounds.
There are "Scotch-Brite" type discs (available at many auto parts stores) which you can use with an electric drill to clean gasket surfaces. ....These discs are more gentle than a wire wheel or wire brush. ....The discs are available in various coarseness, but pick something mid-range. ....Too coarse can remove aluminum, too fine wastes time and discs.
Take lots of pics on disassembly, as it is easy to forget things a month or two later.
Marking bearing caps or connecting rod caps for proper orientation should be done by light punch marks made with a center-punch or number punch. ....Marks made with a felt marker are too easily wiped off.
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Thanks everyone for the sage advice.
I ordered the book as was suggested and it arrived yesterday. Need to spend some time with it now.
I'm located in Virginia Beach, VA. I found a machine shop close by that looks like a possibility. http://theheadshopinc.com/services.html (http://theheadshopinc.com/services.html). Looks like quite a few options around as well. I need to weed through the list of car clubs in the area still. My son and I attend a few classic car meets and will find the British car guys next time.
I have two neighbors who have experience restoring cars but I'm not sure about engine rebuilds. Will check with them.
My maintenance records show the water pump was replaced within just a few hundred miles. But, like most things, may still be worth replacing again while I have it apart.
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Danville Va is a ways away from you, but this company has Lotus experience.
http://www.motionmachineinc.com/
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And if you look at their "Pictures" section, there's apparently a lady there who is very easy on the eyes! :)
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Ha! I missed that. The building was a car dealer at one time, I think. The machine shop is one side of the building, the other side/shop side is a race car builder. The showroom seems to always have some vintage racers in the window, older Lotus included.
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So, not getting a lot of time on this lately. We pulled the engine and tyranny this afternoon. Any advice on separating the two? I have them on a hoist now but resting on blocks of wood.
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That was actually easy. I got a bottle jack up under the transmission and it relieved the pressure on the studs. Came right apart. Will remove the clutch and put it on the engine mount now.
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OK. Another session of staring at it. Clutch plate off. Not sure how to pull the flywheel. Maybe the bolts behind it that attach to the block?
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I meant to reply to your question about splitting the engine and tranny but I got distracted. Sorry.
I have to admit that it's been a long time since I've had to worry about this - and I don't remember ever really having to worry about it! You'll probably want to take the bolt out of the front of the crank first. You can do this by holding the flywheel still with a screwdriver in the ring gear and a rod through a bell housing mounting hole. That's not described very well, but I think you get the idea. Remember to make some sort of mark on the crank and the flywheel (or other mechanism) so you can put it back the same way since your do your timing from marks on the flywheel. A hint is that the keyway in the front of the crank will always be up at TDC for #1. When you take the flywheel off the crank, gently pry or tap all around as evenly as you can.
I am anxious to hear if others have a simpler or better way. I've investigated flywheel locks but I'm not sure if there are any that are appropriate for a TC or if it's even worth the bother.
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Have you undone the bolts that secure it to the crankshaft? After that, a clout with a dead-blow hammer will shift it. Just the shock breaks the stiction.
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Must be slightly brain dead today. It was just 6 simple 12-point books holding the flywheel on. Removed them and got it on the engine mount. Yay.
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Just checking in. Any progress?
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Hah! Funny you should ask. I got aggravated and distracted and have made little progress for several months. However, I finally got motivated and found a machine shop to which I took the engine and various bits. so, I'm back in business and planning to make some forward motion with it.
The shop reported the engine was in good shape (no cracks) but needed to be bored out. Here's his list of what I need...
Pistons - 30's or maybe 40's
10/10 on rod and main bearings
Wrist pin bushings for rods
Cam bearings for block
Cam bearings for head
4 intake and 4 exhaust valves
Valve guides
Then of course, there are the rubber bits. Also, I noticed the water pump was pretty much frozen shut with rust and deposits.
I am going to be contacting the usual suspects on the list of suppliers - RD Enterprises, Dave Bean. Any other recommendations?
I'm also starting to clean up the various parts. I have a blast cabinet but found that my air compressor tank has a clogged output tube (nipple) that is not allowing air to flow properly. It's always something, huh?
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Not to knock the local suppliers, but I've had great success ordering engine parts from Burton Power in the UK
https://www.burtonpower.com/parts-by-fitment-type/parts-by-engine-ford/ford-lotus-twin-cam-8v.html (https://www.burtonpower.com/parts-by-fitment-type/parts-by-engine-ford/ford-lotus-twin-cam-8v.html)
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Many people like the cassette water pumps. JB says they are not needed as much on the Europa motor compared to the Elan because there are no ancillaries on the water pump belt to stress the bearing. That sounds very reasonable to me but if you want a belt AND suspenders, you probably want one. The only place I know to get one is Dave Bean. Burton Power sells their version for front engine versions but not the Europa.
I would price shop for everything else. Dave Been is probably a better source for things that are "a bit off the beaten path" where r.d. is more tuned to selling straight replacement parts - there are surely exceptions. Burton Power is certainly a good source but when shopping, make sure that importation costs (if any) are factored in.
Over the years, I've bought a lot of stuff from Richard at Banks (no engine parts) and always got good parts at decent price. You might want to consider his parts store (though you may already know that he sold his parts business).
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Just curious, can you get the replaceable pump insert out when the engine is installed?
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I have seen where it is claimed that the pump can be replaced in-situ, most recently from Rob Siegel in his series on resurrecting a TC (https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2017/11/07/lotus-europa-pt-3). I have no experience with them so I don't know the truth but even if you still have to pull the motor to change the pump, you at least don't have to take the head off, and all that entails. For that reason, it might be worth the extra cost some.
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I have a Dave Bean cartridge water pump in my Elan and I doubt you can remove it in a Europa with the engine in place. When I rebuilt my engine for the Europa I rebuilt the OEM water pump and did NOT spend the $$$ on a Bean cartridge water pump.
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Working on quotes from the parts suppliers. Machine shop said it would be a bit around $1,200 to do the machine work: deck, rebore, drive shaft, cams, valves, etc. Sounds like about 10 hours of labor based on their rates. Sounds right?
On another subject, I spent 2-3 weeks getting my air compressor set up for the sand blasting cabinet. Had a clogged compressor but that's a whole other story. Working now so I'm in the process of cleaning up various bits that fit in the cabinet. I'm taking the front hub apart to clean it and probably replace bearings. Naturally, I am stuck. Any technique on removing the grease cap?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48555368712_532747b083.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gYEXtw)
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You can try using a long sheet metal screw to screw into the hole and push it out. I had nuts tacked in my caps to use machine screws.
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Big channel lock pliers and twist off. You will probably distort it and need to replace. They are cheap enough so I wouldn’t worry.
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I was finalizing the parts order with the machine shop the other day. He came back with the jackshaft and said I needed a new one. It was a little rusted in the narrow bits and had some pitting on the parts that sit in the bearings. When I was comparing prices at the parts suppliers, one suggested that it may not need to be replaced if it wasn't broken. Presumably this is due to the role it plays in driving the oil and water pump. What are your thoughts? Sorry I didn't take photos while I was there.
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Depends on what you mean by: "had some pitting on the parts that sit in the bearings." A few pits? No big deal. Deep and directing oil out? Replace.
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I'm sure I'm not the slowest guy to ever do a rebuild but I'm sure I'm in the running. My youngest son and rebuild partner is moving across the country. My wife is suggesting that she "help" me with the rebuild. So, I am back at it and will try to stay focused this time.
I got the engine from the machine shop a few months ago and have gotten the pistons in and bottom end together. I have the Lotus TC book which is very helpful. Working on water pump now. I have the rebuild kit from Burton. I can get the old one to turn but haven't been able to dismantle it. Any suggestions on how to do this?
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Hello Andy,
was the threat of 'help' enough to focus you?!
Mark
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Follow the directions in the manual carefully! Some new style seals require a special tool to press in place.
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I can neither confirm nor deny. Her dad had a paint and body shop so she is actually interested.
I have applied heat and my pullers and have it about 1/3 off. Not coming easy.
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You are going to need a press, preferably hydraulic, to do the job.
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So it seems. I looked through the book carefully and came to the same conclusion. Think it will bring it back to the machine shop and let them do it and clean it and the other plates I have. Thanks.
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There are two types of water pump seals. The older ones ride against the impeller. They are easy to install with the right sized deep socket of pipe with a bit of Hylomar or aviation gasket sealer. The newer style does not ride against the impeller and seals against the shaft itself. These should be installed with a special tool that pushes against both the outer rim of the seal and inner part next to the shaft. The seals may be damaged if the tool is not used. FYI.
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My last twink water pump replacement was about five or six years ago using the old style rebuild kit. Has any one used the new style seal as described by JBC? If so what does the special tool look like and how is it used. I'm at the point of my rebuild where I'll have to start thinking of which direction I want to go with my water pump. Is there an advantage of using the new style seal vs the old?
Joji Tokumoto
Fallbrook, Ca
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Have a look at this pdf:
http://www.az-rpm.com/pdf/Shaft%20Seals.pdf
Compare the 68 and the 68U
Here's some info on the tool required fro unitized seals:
http://www.az-rpm.com/pdf/Seal%20Installation%20Guide.pdf
A unitized seal gives a better controlled operating environment for the seal. Seal lube is contained and the seal run protected.
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For the water pump - go electric.
1. Water continues to circulate for a few minutes after the engine is off enabling a better cool down.
2. When stationary water still can circulate at full speed
3. When it breaks a replacement can be fitted in ten minutes
4, 5 , 6 and 7 when it breaks a replacement can be fitted in ten minutes.
As far as I can see the only downside is you can’t race as an electric pump is non compliant
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So, continuing along the lines of slowest rebuild ever, I was back at the water pump over the last few weeks. Purchased a shop press (12-ton) which helped to get the old parts out and the new parts in. Was moving on to mounting the plate to the front of the block and was reading the TwinCam book and realized I missed what I think was a critical step. This was also in the instructions from the water pump kit but I missed it. It says to put a good quality silicon sealant (books says RTV silicon sealant) on the new seal but I was looking at the instructions below about using some silicone grease and used that instead. I'm guessing that without this sealant, I'm destined for a quick failure. Not looking forward to dismantling this and I'm guessing I will damage the seal when I press it out.
On another side, when we were putting the jackshaft in, we couldn't find the thrust plate so I ordered a used one. Got it all cleaned up and pulled the block over to install it only to find the original one in place. I'm guessing my son found the correct one and installed it without telling me. Kind of funny.
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Many coolants attacks and breakdown "silicone" sealer. I would use Hylomar or Permatex Aviation Gasket Maker #3.
It is extremely likely you will damage the seal when you remove it. See if you can find a seal without ordering a whole new kit -- the supplier I link to above may have it. Myself, I would definitely replace the seal. Water pump leaks are not fun on a TC.
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Thanks jpcollier. I contacted as-rpm. Will was very helpful. We determined I need a type 68, 1005 which apparently common on Ford seals. Roughly $20 shipped. Will let you know how it fits when it comes in. He agreed it was probably good to get it sealed up with the aluminum cover. thanks for pointing me that way!
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Many coolants attacks and breakdown "silicone" sealer. I would use Hylomar or Permatex Aviation Gasket Maker #3.
It is extremely likely you will damage the seal when you remove it. See if you can find a seal without ordering a whole new kit -- the supplier I link to above may have it. Myself, I would definitely replace the seal. Water pump leaks are not fun on a TC.
Speaking of silicone sealers, you should be careful when using it in fuel systems. The fuel attacks it and turns it into stringy much. A guy told me that he had trouble starting his race car one time. He checked the engine, ignition, wiring, etc. Finally he broke open the fuel cell, fuel pump, and fuel lines. He had a long rope of silicone in his fuel line from all the times they used silicone to seal various parts of the fuel system!
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Thanks. I have some of the Permatex Gasket Maker stuff referenced. Will go with that I think.
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I received the water seal this afternoon. It seems to be slightly deeper than the one that came with the rebuild kit but otherwise looks right. Measuring the space where it will go, it looks like it will just fit. Will get it pressed in with the sealant and see how that goes.
Old one
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50842640771_a0f9b02390_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ksMPLF)
New one
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50842640756_54a97b9f05_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ksMPLq)
Old
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50842725967_3c56f7a783_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ksNg6z)
New
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50842640726_583df6bb8c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ksMPKU)
Together
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50842725937_96778553ef_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ksNg64)
9mm to the lip
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50841916748_cf1ee14419_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ksJ7xw)
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Got the new one installed yesterday. It fit just fine.
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Excellent!
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It's kind of pathetic the little work I've done on my rebuild. I have found renewed interest, energy and time so I am jumping back in and am going to finish it this time. (my wife is threatening to "help" again :) ). My problem when I've gone to work on it is, despite taking good care during disassembly, I keep finding I'm missing a part - typically the third thing I go to install. Then I get frustrated. I'm trying to lay all of the parts out now it will take to complete the engine rebuild so I can make one order and then finish it.
Need an adapter for the end of the jackshaft so I can attach the jackshaft sprocket and then the water pump assembly. Can't locate the bolts for the rear oil seal retainer either. I think I'm generally good otherwise.
I did have a question about fasteners in general - if I need a bolt here or there, I'm guessing I don't just run over to the local big box hardware store. Seems like they are the wrong material. Do I just order bolts from a parts catalog or is there some other source? I'm guessing most of the bolts are steel.
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As a general rule, I’d use bolts that are grade 5 or grade 8. They are made to a more rigorous standard than ungraded bolts. For some applications that is overkill but they aren’t that much more expensive than ungraded bolts. Grade 5 bolts have three radial marks on the head. Grade 8 have six. They are available in fine and coarse thread. The cheapest place to get bolts is probably a local bolt or fastener supplier but they may require a minimum purchase, especially in the smaller sizes in which case your local hardware store or big box retailer which has a good selection of nuts and bolts would be a good choice.
I consider nuts and washers a different story. Nyloc or other locknuts wear out and need to be replaced (and nuts and washers sometimes have a habit of getting lost). Buying them by the box makes more sense so you fastener supply house or even online if there isn’t a fastener supplier near you are good options.
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Dang I'm lame. Finally got around to ordering a jackshaft adapter and a new timing chain (why not). Made more progress over the last 3-4 days than in months. Got the water pump on, the rear oil seal, and put the oil sump on the block. Moving on to the fly wheel which raises a few questions...
Spigot bearing - I'm guessing I don't have this. Any advice on these? Otherwise, I guess I will be ordering.
Alignment and balancing - So, balance marks when mounting flywheel to crank wheel. Then, clutch and clutch cover are supposed to have marks to align. I see some permanent marker lines on the flywheel. Not sure about the crankshaft end. I think I can figure out how the cover when on to the flywheel. Any idea what I'm looking for? Or, should I look into getting it balanced and how would I go about that?
Clutch alignment tool - ideas on what to use. I'm assuming I don't need to order an actual tool.
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The crank and flywheel should be balanced independently. Since you will have to set the ignition timing from marks on your flywheel, you need to make sure that TDC of #1 agrees with the marks on your flywheel. Be sure that it is at the top of the compression stroke (both valves closed). I suspect the arrow on your flywheel relates to TDC but make sure!
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At least sand the faces of the flywheel and the pressure plate. I only ever fit new clutches as I don't want to have to pull the tranny unless I have to.
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The crank and flywheel should be balanced independently. Since you will have to set the ignition timing from marks on your flywheel, you need to make sure that TDC of #1 agrees with the marks on your flywheel. Be sure that it is at the top of the compression stroke (both valves closed). I suspect the arrow on your flywheel relates to TDC but make sure!
That makes sense now. If I assume they were balanced previously, really I just need to get to TDC on cylinder 1 and ensure the ignition timing marks align. And, the timing marks are viewed from the little rectangular hole in the transmission which at about 1:30 on the clock as you face the flywheel. Thanks for your help.
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At least sand the faces of the flywheel and the pressure plate. I only ever fit new clutches as I don't want to have to pull the tranny unless I have to.
Thank you. I'm working over the faces to clean them up. Despite appearances, I think they are in ok condition. When you say you fit new clutches, are you just replacing the clutch plate or are your replacing both it and the clutch cover?
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New pressure plate, disc, release bearing and pilot bearing. Release fork is carefully examined, repaired as necessary and lubed.
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Most modern flywheels will only bolt up in one orientation.
One hole will be slightly differently spaced than the others.
If the TC does not do this I am surprised.
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So, apparently the sprockets are the same for the intake cam and jackshaft, and exhaust cam has a different one. My amazing Lotus Twin Cam Engine book says that the one for the exhaust has an EX on it. Mine apparently have 1, 2 and 3 stamped on them. I've already put #2 on the jackshaft and installed the water pump. Looking at the photos from the disassembly, it appears that 1 and 3 were on the cams so that is good but I didn't note which was which. I'm guessing 1 is intake and 3 is exhaust based on the location of the numbers and the timing marks. I'm not keen on removing the water pump but I guess I will if I've done something wrong.
Anyone able to identify which is which?
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From what I’ve seen, and inlet and exhaust cam are the same. The jackshaft has gears to drive the dizzy and oil pump and an eccentric to drive the fuel pump so there is no way that you can mistake it for one of your valve cams.
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Always, always, always mark ALL parts on disassembly. That said, also always double check just in case the last b*st*rd in there didn’t do it right.
According to the parts manual the jackshaft and intake cam sprockets are the same. The exhaust is the odd man out. The intake cam sprocket has its timing mark pointing at the center of a tooth point. The exhaust cam sprocket has its timing mark pointing between two teeth.
( don’t thank me, thank the Wilkins)
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Yeah, there were apparently a few gaps in our labeling of parts. Overall, I think we've done a pretty good job with it but not having the experience of actually rebuilding it, I think there are some details I would follow better.
Anyways, I have that diagram in my Wilkins book. Unfortunately, it appears that all three of my sprockets have the timing mark aligned with the gap between the teeth. ;D
Interestingly, in looking at a couple of parts suppliers, they don't distinguish between the sprockets on the intake and exhaust. I think I will ask the guy at RD Ent. to take a look.
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And you can't take too many pictures!! It's amazing what you can forget when something has been apart for a couple of years!!
I thought I had taken plenty of pictures .... ::)
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How about the mark's relationship to the key way?
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How about the mark's relationship to the key way?
I believe that is the answer (assuming I know what a key way is). George from RD Enterprises sent me the diagram below that shows the timing mark for the exhaust sprocket is one tooth off from square where the input is square. So, I seem to have the sprockets in the right places. Yay. Thanks for the feedback!
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Excellent!
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I feel like I should know how to do this but not having success. There is a circlip that goes on the end of the intake camshaft in a groove just past the oil seal. This circlip is just a ring with a cut in it basically so maybe a spring clip is a better term. My regular circlip tool doesn't seem to be of much use since there are no holes on this. Any tips on installing this? I keep imagining the ring going SPROING and ending up somewhere in my garage.
I have managed to get the head mounted on the block and the timing chain installed. So, making progress!
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Slip on end on and then spiral the rest of the clip on. Once it is on the shaft, use a length of tubing to push it into place.
DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN THE PULLEY NUT.
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Thanks. That was just some effort with the thumbs to get it on. Ok, now for the real question. Head is bolted/torqued to the body, valve clearances adjusted, camshafts bolted on and torqued, timing chain connected to the camshaft sprockets, cams resting on cylinder 4 valves facing each other, crankshaft is aligned at TDC mark, chain tension adjusted to 1/2". When I rotate the engine from the crankshaft (clockwise) so it returns to the TDC mark 2x and the camshaft sprocket marks should be facing each other again, I find the input sprocket is just slightly not back to the starting point. Seems to happen when I first start to turn and and some slack is taken up. There is no slack between exhaust cam sprocket and crankshaft so as I turn the crank, the exhaust starts to turn and it takes up the 1/2" of slack and then everything turns. Once it comes all the way around, I can turn the intake manually a little and the slack will come back and the alignment marks will be closer. I've attached the instructions and diagrams from the Wilkins book that I'm using for reference. Maybe I am a tooth off with the intake? I don't believe they took too much metal the mating surfaces and I have the original camshafts. Recommendations?
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That is indeed a tooth off on the intake cam.
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Ok, I've worked on this for quite a while, taken a break, and then gone back at it and have not figured it out. There must be something I'm missing.
I line the cams up with the sprockets on so the marks are aligned (facing each other) and crank is at TDC. I remove the sprockets. Put the chain on the exhaust sprocket so the chain is taught with the crank. I have the tension adjuster removed to ensure it's not adding anything. When I go to put the intake sprocket on, I just can't seem to make it work regardless of which side of it I leave the tension in the chain.
The last time I actually go the chain on it seemed aligned. When I applied the tensioner to take the slack out of the chain between the sprockets, it seemed to rotate the intake sprocket counter-clockwise as it took up the slack. Then, when I went to rotate the crank, it started to turn the exhaust side and then the intake moved with it once the slack was gone. Seems like I need to initially align the intake with the marker slightly below the edge (rotated clockwise a couple of degrees) so that when the slack is taken up by the tensioner it will be pulled back into the correct position. Maybe the same with the exhaust side (but counter-clockwise) to offset the movement when I turn the crank?
I don't know. Pretty frustrating.
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Get it so it looks like the picture you posted.
Mark the intake chain and sprocket.
Loosen the tensioner.
Gently remove the intake camshaft sprocket and move it in relation to the chain one tooth.
Refit the intake cam sprocket (you may have to turn the intake cam slightly).
It now should be correct.
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Slip on end on and then spiral the rest of the clip on. Once it is on the shaft, use a length of tubing to push it into place.
DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN THE PULLEY NUT.
Assuming (I know..) that you tighten the alternator pulley bolt until it just touches the ring?
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There is no torque specified. I would "snug" it up and no more. Use an serrated, vibration-proof lock washer.
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There is no torque specified. I would "snug" it up and no more. Use an serrated, vibration-proof lock washer.
Meant the depth of the flange on the back of the pulley; assume you tighten the bolt until it pulls the pulley in to just (barely) touch the ring. Good idea for a serrated washer.
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Here is my painted valve cover. I think it turned out nicely.
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Nice! :beerchug:
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So, moving on to the external bits on the motor. I will get a fuel pump rebuild kit as I'm pretty sure the one that sat with the fuel for so long needs an update. The book mentions something about renewing the oil pump. I'm not quite sure what I would do with this. Does something need to happen with the oil pump other than a new gasket?
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I ordered a new oil pump just because. I ordered a fuel pump rebuild kit. I realized the two valves are staked in. Anyone have any guidance on how to remove the existing ones. If I can't figure it out, I will try to go with them and hope they are still functional.
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It probably would have been easier to order a new mechanical fuel pump. The service manual is a bit skimpy on details on rebuilding the fuel pump but this handout may be of some help. All of the new mechanical fuel pumps that I've seen are of the non glass bowl type.
I tried to post a single page scanned print out on directions to rebuild the fuel pump but the file is too large to post. Send me a PM and I'll send it to you by email.